Thank you for this! I really, really wish I could get a transcript of his talk or even the "handout" he mentions. Is it possible to contact the BSA to ask?
Since whatever we know about the Trojans comes from the Greeks (Homer and others), where in history we find indications that Trojans were Hittites? Please provide reference
Re-listen perhaps. No one says the Trojans were Hittites, rather that the whole of Western Anatolia was nominally under the control of the Hittites through various client states usually referred to as "Middle-Kingdoms." The historical existence of those Middle-Kingdoms is well-attested, including the city of Wilusa. Whether Wilusa was Homer's Troy is strictly speculative, but it is by far the best candidate, FWIW. Mr. Huxley provides the evidence for this in his talk.
@@lianko2000 You didn't ask for info "about the Trojans except Homer" in your original post. You said, "...,where in history we find indications that Trojans were Hittites? " To which I replied in part, "No one says the Trojans were Hittites,..." Note the word you used, "were." IIRC, the speaker did cite other's speculation that Hittites might've been present, perhaps as a contingent of the Trojan Host, but never specifically said the Trojans "were" Hittite. Again, you asked, "..,where in history we find indications that Trojans were Hittites? " I hope you can see the difference between what you asked in your first post and what you replied to me with your 2nd post, because that is why I replied to you in the first place. My best.
@@1cathexis seriously now thank you for your reply. You re answering to half of my question and you re right. The main question is though, Trojans in popular culture gained an identity through Homer and only him. Nobody cares about some tribe mentioned by the Hittites but the glorious Trojans and their historical identity. In conclusion if we take Homer’s literature as accurate the Trojans could not be anything else than Greeks since they worshipped the same gods had the same ethics etc.
@@lianko2000 OK, this I can deal with: " In conclusion if we take Homer’s literature as accurate the Trojans could not be anything else than Greeks since they worshipped the same gods had the same ethics etc." Let's unpack this. I think my biggest problem with some, but not all of what you're saying is the fallacy of equivocation; the idea that 2 people are using the same word(s), but not with the same meanings. (Andrew, "I love my wife." Justice, "What I love is a good drink." These 2 uses of love are not the same, not actually.) I have never read or heard anyone( including the speaker here) say that Homer is literal historical truth, every word - as some Bible Literalists such as Pentecostals say everything in the Bible is absolute word of God and without contradiction. Nobody's saying that about Homer's works. And there is definitely a lot of speculation (although I consider much of it likely *based* on fact.) You are correct that Homer is our primary source of info on the Trojans. You are correct that Homer says they worship the same gods. The Speaker is trying to tease out details from Homer's works that support a historical connection with real events or peoples. He compare's details in Homer with known archaeological finds to assist him in looking for confirmation that, whatever the fiction of the Iliad, it is built around a core of real memories ( such as previous but now lost songs by other bards for example) that survived 400 - 500 years to serve as the sources of Homer's works. IOW, is the Trojan War based on fact in some way? I think Sir Huxley says yes and I agree. True, you can say it is all fiction or even who cares? Were the Trojans actually some Greek tribe? It is an interesting idea. Greeks fought Greeks for 100's of years, like Athens vs. Sparta. You didn't ask for advice, but if you did I'd suggest you get into the professional literature and see if it's been done before and by whom? Good luck!
May the Storm God strike dead anyone who gives this lecture a thumbs down!
Thank you for this! I really, really wish I could get a transcript of his talk or even the "handout" he mentions. Is it possible to contact the BSA to ask?
Since whatever we know about the Trojans comes from the Greeks (Homer and others), where in history we find indications that Trojans were Hittites? Please provide reference
Re-listen perhaps. No one says the Trojans were Hittites, rather that the whole of Western Anatolia was nominally under the control of the Hittites through various client states usually referred to as "Middle-Kingdoms." The historical existence of those Middle-Kingdoms is well-attested, including the city of Wilusa. Whether Wilusa was Homer's Troy is strictly speculative, but it is by far the best candidate, FWIW. Mr. Huxley provides the evidence for this in his talk.
@@1cathexis yes i re-listened but please re-read my comment and re-reply where did you find any info about the trojans except Homer. Thanks
@@lianko2000 You didn't ask for info "about the Trojans except Homer" in your original post. You said, "...,where in history we find indications that Trojans were Hittites? " To which I replied in part, "No one says the Trojans were Hittites,..." Note the word you used, "were." IIRC, the speaker did cite other's speculation that Hittites might've been present, perhaps as a contingent of the Trojan Host, but never specifically said the Trojans "were" Hittite. Again, you asked, "..,where in history we find indications that Trojans were Hittites? " I hope you can see the difference between what you asked in your first post and what you replied to me with your 2nd post, because that is why I replied to you in the first place. My best.
@@1cathexis seriously now thank you for your reply. You re answering to half of my question and you re right. The main question is though, Trojans in popular culture gained an identity through Homer and only him. Nobody cares about some tribe mentioned by the Hittites but the glorious Trojans and their historical identity. In conclusion if we take Homer’s literature as accurate the Trojans could not be anything else than Greeks since they worshipped the same gods had the same ethics etc.
@@lianko2000 OK, this I can deal with: " In conclusion if we take Homer’s literature as accurate the Trojans could not be anything else than Greeks since they worshipped the same gods had the same ethics etc." Let's unpack this. I think my biggest problem with some, but not all of what you're saying is the fallacy of equivocation; the idea that 2 people are using the same word(s), but not with the same meanings. (Andrew, "I love my wife." Justice, "What I love is a good drink." These 2 uses of love are not the same, not actually.) I have never read or heard anyone( including the speaker here) say that Homer is literal historical truth, every word - as some Bible Literalists such as Pentecostals say everything in the Bible is absolute word of God and without contradiction. Nobody's saying that about Homer's works. And there is definitely a lot of speculation (although I consider much of it likely *based* on fact.) You are correct that Homer is our primary source of info on the Trojans. You are correct that Homer says they worship the same gods. The Speaker is trying to tease out details from Homer's works that support a historical connection with real events or peoples. He compare's details in Homer with known archaeological finds to assist him in looking for confirmation that, whatever the fiction of the Iliad, it is built around a core of real memories ( such as previous but now lost songs by other bards for example) that survived 400 - 500 years to serve as the sources of Homer's works. IOW, is the Trojan War based on fact in some way? I think Sir Huxley says yes and I agree. True, you can say it is all fiction or even who cares? Were the Trojans actually some Greek tribe? It is an interesting idea. Greeks fought Greeks for 100's of years, like Athens vs. Sparta. You didn't ask for advice, but if you did I'd suggest you get into the professional literature and see if it's been done before and by whom? Good luck!
Let's not forget that Dna proves that ancient Greeks come both from Eastern populations and eastern Europe populations. They don't come from the west.