Are you a commission painter, have you used them before? What are your experiences? If you enjoyed the video and want to support the channel, check out my patreon at www.patreon.com/broadswordwargaming 😀
Just to reiterate what i have put on your facebook post. I am currently doing commission painting due to loosing work and is currently my only source of income. It is incredibly difficult as someone with a relatively low outreach at the moment to get clients that actually are willing to pay even basic minimum wage for your time. Unfortunately i think a lot of this is due to the hobby itself and a lack of understanding on what is required for a certain level of painting. Your video does a good job on highlighting some of these points and hopefully more people will watch them and maybe appreciate what we do.
I'd rather see a video like this where you pay for the service, tell us how much it cost, and then keep the artist's anonymous - impossible to meaningfully judge if any of these were worth what you paid, when I dont know what that is.
That is a route, going anonymous, but having spoken to the painters, i don't think they wanted the prices for these jobs out as public info. It would have made a better video (as you said), but i don't think it'd have been fair to disclose it if they didn't want me to 😀 Hopefully it raised some discussion as to the price painters and artists should charge.
@@BroadswordWargaming someone confident in their work wouldn’t be shy about disclosing their prices and would be able to justify their cost. I also have a side business (not painting related) and I openly share my pricing. Some people balk at the cost and ask for lower pricing and I don’t back down. Our level of service is extremely high and that time and effort comes at a cost. If people are only concerned with the lowest price, there are plenty of other options. 75% of people that look elsewhere come back to us after a bad experience and understand why our higher cost is justified.
This was a very interesting video for me. I've never been a strong painter, and when I decided to get back into Kill Team and then 40k, I used a commission painter. Fast forward a few years and I still use a commission painter, though mostly for HQ units, special Elite characters and things I honestly do not want to paint. Tanks, flyers and knights I enjoy painting. Little troops, not so much. I work with the painters to describe the colors I use on my troops and vehicles and spell out exactly what I am looking for. The painters I have used in the past, and the ones I use now are very receptive and happy for the details. As for not being sure about the miniatures because I didn't paint them, I don't have that issue. Once they go on the board next to my troops and the dice start rolling, they are one big happy family to me. I'm always happy to let people know who painted my minis and the experience I've had. If the painters were good enough to work with me, I'm happy to spread the word and hopefully get them more work. As for price, I am generally willing to pay as much for the paint job as the miniature(s) cost. So, for instance 10 skitarii I would be willing to pay $50-60 USD for a paint job for the unit. Just my 2 cents as a consumer and casual painter. As always, thanks for the video and chance to comment.
I'm a part-time commission painter, and yeah the £1 a mini guys are a problem, I charge £20 an hour, that covers my time and materials, and wear and tear on tools
Great video and I'm the same. I do occasional commission painting. For me commission painting gives me a chance to paint different races, armies etc and help me improve and a bit of extra cash from time to time. I charge about 15 to 20 per model, but try to reflect also what the customer wants scheme difficulty wise. People have been happy with my rates. Got to factor in assembly time, varnishing, basing materials, etc and I'd say not being a major speed painting wizard it works out about £10 an hour as a rate
I think a lot of people would be put off by comission painter rates. Skilled labour is worth about £35 an hour generally to the public. This is your Plumbers, Mechanics, Interior Designers etc. If you're looking at 2-3 hours per model for a good tabletop + standard like these then it's about £500 for 6 models. That's not including buying the models, any materials and shipping. Probably charging £20-25 an hour is as low as you could go. Any lower and you might as well get a minimum wage job doing anything else.
I would never use a commission painter - but I love painting. n the other hand, I don't have anything against people that do, it's your models, you do you. What's it worth? I believe it's worth whatever you're willing to pay. If they want more than you're willing to pay for their work, then it's too much. If your time is more valuable than what they are offering to paint them for, then it's the right price.
Id say you're bang on there. Thats a great comment about the pricing and thats what it comes down to, time v money. I don't think I'd use a commission painter on paint an army I wanted to play.. I don't feel any attachment to these models (not yet anyway), but I can see why people do it. 😀
Yeah. I feel if its worth it or not depends on how much you value your time. If spending 40h painting isn't something that can work for you, paying someone to do it seems like not a bad option. Additionally, I know people who hate the building/painting side of the hobby and only like the actual game-play parts, so for them, not doing something they strongly dislike doing is worth the extra money.
I'm a commission painter as my primary income. I've worked in traditional painting for longer professionally, but have painted miniatures far longer as a hobby - which has now become integrated into my profession. Typically, for display standard kill teams (assuming 5-6 models), I would be looking to charge somewhere in the region of £150-200. This is usually received as being very reasonable for the standard I produce, but even as a fast painter, works out to about minimum wage, when broken down into hours. Conversely, for traditional painting, I make about £20/hr, despite having far less experience (8 years traditional, Vs 29 in mini painting).
Id say your pricing is pretty solid (and in a similar region to some in the video) and if it works out as a living wage +, then keep at it. 😀 whack a link in to your page and ill check it out. 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming thanks mate! Probably the easiest place to see my collected work is either facebook.com/mspcart or twitter.com/thatmrshy1 I have fairly recently started at this RUclips malarkey too! Great video, by the way. I really like how you represented commission work, very fair and level headed.
I stopped doing Commission work as I always found that people criminally undervalued the amount of work that goes into it. I regularly got messages on Instagram from people who expected me to be willing to paint models for next to nothing and were shocked when I gave them an honest quote.
I think a lot of people have found that to be the problem when pricing. Id totally agree though, all we can do is continue to quote for our time, and if people are happy to pay that then great, if not, its not worth it. 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming Precisely, if people want to pay low prices then they should expect low quality. I know what I feel my time is worth and if people don't want to pay that then I have a large pile of shame of my own to get painted!
May be SprayBlack Studios has hit the nail on the head. Pay a low price and get a job akin to the speed paint job that Guy from Midwinter Minis completes. His paint jobs are usually striking and straight forward. Light on for detail but definitely battle ready and visually appealing. Usually about an hour to do squad of five. Or if they want super top stuff the price goes up with the hours and number of minis to paint.
I always paint myself, just more personal and creative for me, but totally think this was important to know how to pay for a good job being done! People deserve credit for such work.
@@MurderHoboRPG hmm, i reckon i could nock out 10 guardsmen in 2 hours, depending on the level of detail of corse. Many people only want a basic job on bulk infsntry
Fair enough folks I just thought it was a good rough estimate that would actually get sales. In Canada Mortarion is around $180 and during a major financial crisis as we are in now and will be for a few years at least $360 sounds doable for labour. A kill team box is $70 roughly and $140 seems in the ballpark. Just a guess on my end as with all services the market will dictate the price.
@@MurderHoboRPG If you prime them in their uniform colour, applying base coat and wash shouldn´t be a big problem in 2h. This one by MWM is painted in 20min, but he does add some extra steps over the "minimum": ruclips.net/video/23qRkjcNBqo/видео.html
Deathwatch look great. An interesting black is really hard to do but he nailed it here. All the accents like the weapons, shoulder pads and cloaks are really well done too.
In my experience people would rather blow money on more models that they'll never build or do anything with rather than spend that money on a beautifully painted, finished and usable army.
Harlequins, 5 or 6 times the cost of the models. Assembly is at least as much as the cost of the models, adding the opposing colors with airbrushing, gems, freehand, scenic elements on the base, leaning to 5 times to cost of the models seems reasonable. Custodes, probably 5 times the cost of the models. Assembly as above, the keys here are the variations in the metallic colors on the armor, the blue NMM weapons, and the skins. Basic base, expensive if he's using GW products, but not too time consuming. Deathwatch, this one is tough. The bases are simple, but the conversions are complex, and the highlighting on the black is very precise. It seems that these probably took the longest amount of time to complete, but time doesn't necessarily equate to quality or value. These also have a ton of small details done very well, in the lenses and wargear on the models. Probably 6 times the cost of the models. Tau are the least precise, but also appear to have the most amount of steps in their process. Complex basing and additional stripping services are great additions. The lenses look fantastic and the weathering is a nice touch that can be tricky to pull off well. The various finishes is another tricky area that can go wrong quickly. Probably 5 or 6 times the cost of the models.
All of those paint jobs are really nice - I'd happily use any one of those killteams. That said - while I can see how it helps people who lack time or technical skill get an army on the table - I myself probably wouldn't outsource my favourite part of the hobby. An exception might be a single display piece from a painter who has a distinctive style - like getting a piece of original art for display purposes. I have really no idea about the going rate for painted minis, but I'd say at that quality level a kill team might take between half a day and a day. So between 70 and 120 pounds for the squad, possibly?
I myself would probably paint my army myself as it becomes more personal. However, these are beautiful! I didn't see any flamers in your deathwatch, but if there are some additional boys to that crew make sure your flamer is a salamander or the internet will crucify you! 😁
Can't disagree with that. I do feel a little detached from these models, but I've not used them yet. And you're so right about the lack of flame.. that'll get me in trouble 🤣 They are awesome jobs and good for studio factikns I wouldn't collect myself, think im good with that. ME, PAINT TAU.. NEVER
@@BroadswordWargaming I've got to say... and Mabey I'm just lucky. But you have replied to every moment on every one of your videos that I've made. I would like to thank you for being (from my expirience so far) the best RUclips content creator ever in regards to replying to the comments made. Your the best😁
The whole question of commission painting or even buying a painted army on Ebay is what do you want from the hobby? 1. Do you want to play the game? 2. Do you want to build the models? Or 3. Do you want to do both, in this case you have to realise that 2. will mean that 1. will be compromised while you paint and make the army. It is interesting that you may have to realise that sometimes you may have compromise the other way too, maybe field not completely painted models. At which point a commission maybe helpful to complete a force. Btw I'd love to bring a Kill team or two along when I visit my parents next in Ireland (lock down allowing) I PM'd you on Facebook about it a while ago.
1 Pound to 1.50 Pounds per model is equal to $1.33 to $1.99 US Dollars. Being as minimum wage varies from state to state, the lowest is $7.25 per hour up to the highest of $13.50 per hour. This means that just to earn minimum wage at $1.33 per model they would only be spending up to 11.01 minutes per model and if it was $1.99 per model they would only be spending up to 16.47 minutes per model. That is just to make a minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. Now of it was in the 1 state where minimum wage is $13.50 per hour they could only spend up to 8.84 minutes per model for the $1.99 price per model and drops down to only 5.91 per model for the $1.33 price per model to make minimum wage. Even with batch speed painting techniques I would find it very hard to believe that 16.47 minutes is enough time to reach the quality I would want reach on my models. I know that most of the channel I watch for painting advice, tips, tricks, techniques and more who do commissions say basically that if you're going to commission some else to Build and Paint your miniatures you should expect to pay at least as much as you would pay for the retail price of those models. That is the bare minimum to expect to pay. Remember that you are paying them for their time, skills, knowledge, tools and materials to be used to do something that either you do not want to or can not do or do not have the time to do. Now with all of that said, remember that you are hiring them to do a job for and both of you should have a completely clear and full understanding of what is being asked of each other with a signed contract clearly stating what is to be done, who is doing what, when it should be completed by and what the cost should be. Example: Person A is hiring Person B to build and paint a 10 model unit box of Space Marines Intercessors in a standard Iron Hands pattern with in a week of recieving them in the mail. They will be built with Auto-Bolters on a Desert terrain base. Once they are completed Person B will email photos of each model and a whole unit showing front side, right side, left side and back side for each. After which Person A will have 1 week to pay in full any outstanding balance of the agreed upon price of "X" amount which is "J for building, K for painting, L for basing and M for packing and return shipping costs". Once payment is received in full Person B will mail all 10 models, as shown in photos, back to Person A. If Person B is requested to alter or change from the originally agreed upon work, by Person A, this may cause them to add a change order billing that could result in additional payment needed before releasing the models to be mailed back to Person A. These sort of requests should only be made in writing and all terms need to be agreed upon before any additional work is preformed.
I was like, hey this is a neat comment. Then I clicked the show more. I didn't expect another 2 paragraphs XD also agreed. less that 20-30 or so min per model seems a bit questionable. Well, if you want something decent anyways.. I spent about 11 hours on ONE deathwatch guy for my kill team. (He was/is my first ever painted model, but still) I did a commission for one of my friends who provided me with all the paints I needed to do his Iron Warrior kill team so I ended up charging about 7$ per model. Def undercharged, but it was for one of my best friends so I didn't really care XD prolly would have been like 12-15 otherwise just bc Im still fairly new. Those Iron Warriors did win a local gw store painting competition tho
Wow every model you've shown it brilliant and as for someone doing a model for £1.50 I think that's way too cheap and would be worried about the end result . People do argue about prices but they forget everything you said about time and materials and these aren't free . Personally if I was to pay someone to paint a model for me I would send them a single at first to see how it came out before i stumped up the cash for an army .
That seems like a fine thing to do, reputation is so important here. There is a huge amount of trust given when posting an army to someone. The artists need to earn a living wage too. 😀
Awesome video. I paid one in the past to paint a Legion of the Damned model for me because I loved them in the book they featured in. Very interesting. I hope they receive a fair price for their work. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
I've recently got back in to the hobby after a 20 year break (yes, I'm old) and now find I've got more money and less time which is the opposite of when I started out. I can see the appeal of using commission painters which would let me enjoy the actual playing aspect without flooding the table with grey plastic. Definitely worth it if you're sitting on a large pile of shame...
I started commission painting d&d models about 2 years ago. I start at $15 for a basic tt level miniature. For a higher quality tt standard $20 and I charge $5-$10 for basing depending on the basing level. The time I spend is roughly 2-3 hours per miniature. It's not a full-time job otherwise my prices would have to double at minimum and probably triple to pay the bills. A really great artist can charge what they do, because it's their living. The hobbyists just dabbling in commission painting shouldn't get paid the same. I'm hoping in a couple more years I can get faster and be able to make enough money to do it for a living, but I still have more skills to learn and perfect before calling myself a professional painter and charging top dollar.
I know some people only like the game aspect of the hobby. I paint my own stuff, and do some commissions when I have the time or it's a project that gets my attention, maybe a new challenge, or something that I would enjoy making and haven't done in that way before. I do charge for my time and what I consider my meager skills (I'm my own worst critic I've been told) but I enjoy all aspects of the hobby.
Thats probably a very healthy way to look at it all. Do projects you want to work on, there is always someone to do something, so why not enjoy it. You shoukd charge what you're comfortable with, without undervaluing yourself. And of course we are all our own worst critics.. except for some people on the Internet 😅
I was thinking about buying a specific model to have professionally painted but I just can't bring myself to pay for something like a paint job on my model when I myself am learning how to paint minis. It would be like paying for a chance to not gain experience. Plus if you never get good enough at painting then we're does it stop? Would you get every model commissioned? Would you really care about your models if someone else painted them,probably not. Commission is cash grab and takes a lot of the fun and drama out of 40 k. Imagine painting a model for two weeks and you finally get to use it in game. Now you get to show it off and talk about how awesome it is and share tips with your club on how to paint it. Now its on the board and you spent a lot of time to get it there so your going to try to keep it alive the whole game. So now you've got a much more dramatic scenario because you actually put time and effort into painting and want to keep it alive so it will affect your mission planning and all that. If you just buy painted well once you find one thing wrong with how that army plays you will sell it and buy a new one wasting money and never finding something you really like. I like my orks because I panted all 150 of em. Now I'm startin to strip my first paint job and start new with experience I've gained in the last year. It makes the hobby more personal
IMO the quality went up with each set you showed, Harlies > Cust > DW > Tau. The Harlies were fine, but very much a basic, entry-level job for someone looking for a quick TT standard. The Custodes looked excellent, but were clearly an airbrush reliant scheme. The Deathwatch looked solid, and were a close second to that excellent weathering and tones of the Tau. I would say that aside from maybe the Harlequins (this isn't a judgement on the artist, they were just very basic, but clean and well painted), the work was all well above my level. All 4 are worthy of getting paid, but also clearly different standards.
IDK if it was his greenscreen reflecting on them or if those Tau actually had green mixed in the yellow. If the latter then I don't like it. Looks like some yellow pants that did a slide on the lawn
Thanks for talking about a topic that seems taboo in the scene. I'm a full-time commission painter, and honestly, it's not something I would do long term. My long term goal is to build a community and starting my own LGS because there is simply no way to survive doing commission work along where I am from.
I agree, I dont knkw why its so taboo, it just is. Its strange. Hopefully i created some discussion about the whole thing and it allows people to get what they need to move forward, financially. Having multiple income streams is great, I hope it works out. 😀
Depends on model you want painted how much you should pay to get it done or if you paint then how much you should charge troops are easy to do but characters and more technical figures are very hard to value at paint time and skill
Hey, yes, that was actually the initial concept here. I think some of the artists weren't super keen on putting pricing out as irs a really subjective topic, and these were done in that way. Hopefully (and I think it has) it just opens the door for people to talk about the value of their time, and a realistic cost of time and skill. 😀
I do commission painting, ( instagram.com/jetshroom ) one of the things I run into a lot is the price expectation. If I had an airbrush, I could replicate those paint jobs at my basic tabletop rate; $15AUD per mini. Most of my commission work is at that rate, and it's mostly 1-7 minis at a time. Usually DnD stuff. But I find in particular when it comes to armies or board games, people tend to expect MUCH lower costs than are safe for painters to charge. You get people enquiring about an army they've purchased that they want to show off with a display quality paint job, but they don't want to pay more than 1 or 2 dollars per mini. Unfortunately, painting minis takes time, and if it takes me an hour to paint a mini, you're going have to pay for an hour of my time, though I'm fortunate enough that I don't rely on commission painting for my survival. Something I see a lot is people complaining that "I'd just paint it myself rather than pay that price." and when I hear that I say "Yes, exactly! Go do that!" that's something that gets forgotten a lot in these discussions is that people who paint their minis and armies aren't the target audience for commission painters. Most commission work is for people who don't want to paint, or don't know how to paint their stuff. I'm not here saying "Hey, don't paint your army yourself, I'll do it for you!" I'm saying, "If you don't want to paint your army, this is how well I paint, and this is how much I charge."
I am a full time commission painter and have been for almost three years now if you want to talk about the challenges of commission work I alway happy to talk. Great Video BTW. I feel a series of videos about what to expect from a commission painter and what you need to know if you are thinking of offering commission work would be great. Peace James
I commission paint (hoshineko.space , name drop there haha) and I find pricing the hardest aspect of the whole process. It really depends on the models, and the game system, so Bolt Action will be comparatively cheaper than 40K for example. I couldn’t even hazard a guess at what those guys would charge, I always feel as a consumer the ‘value’ is a personal preference. One person will think £60 for a character is reasonable, others won’t. I think that’s the hardest thing about commission work is finding a client base
Shamless plug approved 🤣 It does seem to be the way of it. Im learning a lot from all the threads around commission painting. It seems no one (buyer or artist) really knows what is an "appropriate" price. I don't commision paint, but I have been freelance for years.. really, it shoukd be £15-£20 per hour, minimum right? Not to say you'll always get that, but has to be a good starting point. The price is so subjective. People want (and expect?) A lot for very little, making people feel the need to undervalue themselves.
I’m a commission painter and I charge about $15-$20 per model (unless it’s a real big boy) and it’s rough to say what’s fair in this freelance line of work like Luca (Miniature Den) charges and is fully worth no less than $75 and can be as much as $750
Best is when a consumer says. I have X amount of money. And then the artists tells the consumer what they can do for that money. second best is that the consumer tells them what models they need painted, and then the artist quotes them. and then its up to the artists and the consumer to negotiate any discounts
The simple answer is "not enough". Minimum wage per hour + material costs should be the absolute lowest in any industry. There are a couple of big blocks to people getting a fair fee for their work. Any industry that has a big freelance community will always have those less experienced people keen to get themselves literally *any* job to build a portfolio, and that's what 99% of the market is battling against. The breakout stars will always have enough work but it's never an easy ride to the top. "But it's your hobby, right?" No, it's your hobby, it's their job. Big difference. Just because you don't attach a cost to your time in painting minis, doesn't mean others should work for little to no fee. Because of these issues, people will constantly undervalue the work, both the creators and commissioners. Painters, please value yourselves more. If someone is asking you for a commission it means *they believe your work is good*. By all means, be flexible in how your present rates. If its large numbers of rank and file you can batch paint offer a "job price" that may attract a discount. Hero minis with a months worth of weekend and evenings? That could be a 40-hour production (or more!). People asking for commissions, stop being a dick, the job costs what the job costs. If you dont like it, have the grace to say thanks and move on to someone who has the luxury (for any reason) to charge you less.
Hey 😀 Yes, that was my intention when we first spoke about the video as a concept.. but after some discussion, the painters weren't all comfortable with me putting the prices out. I think it really comes down to each job being so subjective in price, which I can understand. I do agree though, it would have been better to have put the prices out. 😀
I don't believe in using commission painters, a hobby should be a personal thing with personal achievement in painting up your own miniatures in your style being of the utmost importance. ... .... ... ... .... .... .... Having said that, I worked it out and I will be 247 years old when I finally paint up my current shelf of shame.
@@BroadswordWargaming if i were to privately email you the txt files I had listing my Age of Sigmar / WH40k / Bloodbowl / Kill Team / Warcry / Bolt Action and Flames of Wars minis which I owned. You would call the cops. If I get the cash before I die I plan to get burried in a giant pyramid with my minis and boobie trap it for those Lara Croft suckers.
£35/£40 per model for a good standard. £60/£100 + for HQ's I paid £130 for someone to paint my pedro cantor and it was well worth it! It still looks as fresh as it did the day it was done. And it lifted my own standard of infantry painting to blend in with the quality delivered on my commission. Thing is...as a general for me. I work hard...and i can earn extra money if i want to. I give time - time. So working sideline i can raise a few hundred quid extra in a month, and that doesn't effect my living and playing money from my day job. So...buying a cantor model and paying someone to paint it was practical for me. And for how it looks a few years on it was great value for money.
@@BroadswordWargaming actually i managed to reduce mine quite drastically by ... painting it ^^ Only mortarion and a maw krusha left... and one of them will go into a giveaway so Oh yeah and a thousand sons start collecting box i just didnt feel like starting yet ^^
Thats just it, its so subjective. Id love to have been able to give a straight answer, but I dont think I can. It has to be a living wage (which varies in each country), but you have to have customers too. I guess I just dont want people undervaluing their time. 😀
Hi like your channel...unrelated request but if you could do a video on making magnetic movement trays for Warhammer fantasy it would be very much appreciated :)
@@BroadswordWargaming yeah that would be great! I'm a total newb to the hobby so videos like that are really helpful! I've ordered some magnets and magnetic sheets which I'm gonna stick to cardboard and see how that goes...but when it all goes wrong a 'professional' :) video would be handy as well!!
Whilst I fully agree with the intended sentiment behind this message.. it was a collaborative effort. Much like the painters, I spent several days producing the content, using my equipment, time and space to do so. We have all probably spent the same amount of time to do it. If you think in profiteering, like some evil land baron, rolling in my adsens money.. this video will make like $30 or something. 🤣 All of the painters are established, working commission painters, who were all more than happy to take part in a big video together.
I used a couple a while ago and the faces they painted on the models where shocking for what I paid. The others where alright though I guess it depends who you use
The Deathwatch are by far the best. I don't like the Custodes at all. Mostly looks like lazy airbrushing and the purple skin is just weird. Their blades are nice though. The Tau are really nice also.
I totally understand that. I dont mind it for the channel, but id feel the same way as you do for an army i liked. I get why people do it though..time, ability or just the hatred of painting 🤣
@@BroadswordWargaming oh, don't me wrong. I totally get why people do it and maybe if there was a big centerpiece to an army that needed to look good I'd at least consider it but probably not pull the trigger. I'm happy that some talented people can make some money off doing something they're good at and that clients can get some clean looking models too.
For Liam’s Harlequins, he mentions this is his basic tier on his Instagram post. I would suggest £30-40 / model. The Kill Team to be £150-200. For Medder’s Custodes I would suggest £60-90 / model. The Kill Team to be £300-450 Lennard’s Death Watch I would suggest £90-120 / model due to not only a painting commission but a heavy customisation of kit builds. The Kill Team to be £540-720 Ben’s Tau is a bit trickier due to the amount of models, varying sizes, colour schemes etc. I would suggest an average of £30-£40 / model. The entire set to be £1,200-1,600 for the 40 model’s I mean no disrespect to any of the painters here, and this is based purely from feel and the information provided. I do not know how much time and effort has been put into each set and I have had to make some assumptions. All the work displayed is of a high quality by talented artists.
You should send me a message on here I'm restarting my commission business. I do 3 level's basic tabletop, tabletop plus, tabletop/display. The majority of the models are below my level 1 some are but the better the painter better and faster basic painting gets even. I will gladly do a single model or squad for you if you will put it in a video.
I do comission works. My Instagram is @astartes_painter and I always talk to the customer what price it is worth for him to get his minis painted. And then the price changes from customer to customer.. thats a fair price model I think
As a painter I charge the price of the models plus the cost of paints that I don’t have. When I first started painting I would paint for free and then someone offered me payment. From the jobs here I say they should charge anything less then then the price of the model, plus a bit more due to skill. This is what I think however if anyone doesn’t agree please educate. My ig is @nerddaddypaints and I’m doing a wet palette and airbrush give away. I love painting. Remember “ if your good at something, you never do it for free “ - The Joker
There's an important factor in miniature painting for commission and that's time. Realistically, if you're charging someone for work, you should be charging based on an hourly rate that is sustainable + the cost of materials. With experience, you get a pretty good sense of how long it's going to take to paint a mini. For me, most standard tabletop jobs can be done in an hour. They're not great works of art, but they look pretty damn good on the tabletop. If someone wants a fancier paint job, more colour depth, freehand etc, you can't spend 5 hours on a mini and only charge the cost of a mini.
I don't understand why you couldn't give us the price for each of these kill teams? There seems to be some secrecy to the pricing/cost of commission painting that no one is willing to discuss. I fully understand that price will vary depending on what level of painting you want, what types of models you want painting but when you have a finished product, why can you not disclose the final price???
I do feel somewhat the same way. It was my first intention when getting the video concept together, but some weren't that willing to do so because of fear of a lashback at costings. It is a funny part of the hobby a did want to break open, but not at the expense of a faw good painters. I think we have to just look at how we value people's skill and time.
@@BroadswordWargaming I completely understand what you mean and I think it's a shame that the backlash is a reality that needs to be considered. I think the issue is that some people don't understand that commission painting is a profession that requires a lot of skill and time. It is not a case of people making money from their hobby, it is a job and a profession. We, as a community, should not shy away from discussing this and the costing of such services. Love the channel 👍
@@Tommy-go1ch totally! It is a shame, id have loved to have been upfront about it. I tried to be as close as i could. Hopefully it raises the topic (to some debate it seems), and puts out the idea that it isn't cheap. Also, the models are pretty 🤣 Thanks so much, I appreciate the support.
here I am thinking " this guy has great production values and interesting video topics, but he has a horrible screen presence and really needs to relax and stop being so nervous." then he says "I've worked as an actor for 15 years". Really surprised you have managed to feed yourself.
We did all agree to do this as a collaborative effort. Its an exchange of services, with my time spent filming/editing and promoting their services. In return, I got some painted miniatures. I fully agree that people should be paid for their work, 100%. I do a lot of work for exposure or the cost of some mdf from another company. A cross platform promotion benefits everyone here. The painters are all established artists and were happy to be involved. 😀
Its not really rambling nor clickbait. I had intended to put the prices for the work, but not all of the painters were happy to do so.. I can understand that. Everyone has spent a lot of time to help produce this video. Im hardly a multi million follower channel using clickbait to generate income. Hopefully I've helped shed some on the topic and create debate, as well as promote some beautiful miniatures. 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming I agree about not displaying prices, but I found it rambling and clickbaite based of watching and found nothing to the answer "what should you pay" - I think it would have been much informative to explain why you can expect to pay a decent amount as they are trying to make a living out of it and charging even £10 per model is wrong. I've personally used commissioners before and understand the value of it. A better title would have been "here is what to expected to get from commissions"
@@bladblabla I appreciate the reply. I did go into some detail on what you shiukd expect to pay for freelancers time. I myself have some experience on the topic. I probably could have gone into more details on the topic, I can understand that. Its always hard to gauge video length against high speed transitions and shots. As for clickable videos and titles, its generally needed for tagging and SEO to get anyone to even click the video. RUclips is such a tough market to get into, but I do try to remain as upfront and honest about things as possible. Thanks for the response though. 😀
Broadsword Wargaming yeah keep it up, I’ve watched your video previous and they are fun. I don’t generally comment but thought it important feedback. Even if it was a bit direct 😉
I like your channel a lot, BUT can you PLEASE stop doing the angled camera shots PLEASE!! Just have the camera square on your face or angled at whatever models or tables you are trying to show us.
Glad you like the channel, thanks. I use a second camera angle to cut through takes/sentences etc, so just part of the process of making it smooth and without erms and ums. #camerasecrets
@@BroadswordWargaming I'd really rather have the"erms and ums" Maybe you could do more shots of the models instead ad just voice over, like most of the other successful channels like Squigmar, Miniac or Black Magic Craft. Oooo, you should check out Erics Terrain Workshop to see how it's done!!
No, they're not fake. They've just always been that way, its like a fluoride thing as a baby. If I had a couple of grand, I could get them capped, so.. taking donations! 😅
@@michielroskam3877 perhaps you didn't mean it to be rude. I'll take your word on that. But i still think it is rude to randomly comment on someone's appearance. Whether you mean it to be or not.
So I just started commission painting a few months ago , and I've done two full armies and a few individuals models so far. I typically charge $10 for troops, $15 for characters. Equivalent to the level of the Death Watch army in the video. So do people think those are fair prices or am I under or over charging? Opinions welcome.
If they're that standard, im assuming they take a lot of time? I think it depends on the amount of time taken, you don't really want to be doing things for less than a living wage. Are you happy enough with that much? 😀
Broadsword Wargaming oh I would totally be losing money if I count labor hours. I view it more as a way to subsidize my own hobby spending, not as a full time job.
Are you a commission painter, have you used them before? What are your experiences?
If you enjoyed the video and want to support the channel, check out my patreon at www.patreon.com/broadswordwargaming 😀
Just to reiterate what i have put on your facebook post.
I am currently doing commission painting due to loosing work and is currently my only source of income. It is incredibly difficult as someone with a relatively low outreach at the moment to get clients that actually are willing to pay even basic minimum wage for your time. Unfortunately i think a lot of this is due to the hobby itself and a lack of understanding on what is required for a certain level of painting. Your video does a good job on highlighting some of these points and hopefully more people will watch them and maybe appreciate what we do.
@@SoulStream42 i hope you've got more people checking your work and giving you more commissions
@@SuperDominic4 I am certainly growing since i started again around a month ago. But still, it cna be hard to get your name out there.
@@SoulStream42 I'm sure @Broadsword Wargaming won't mind if you posted your links on the comments :)
@@SuperDominic4
facebook.com/Cthonianminiatures/
That's my facebook page :)
I'd rather see a video like this where you pay for the service, tell us how much it cost, and then keep the artist's anonymous - impossible to meaningfully judge if any of these were worth what you paid, when I dont know what that is.
That is a route, going anonymous, but having spoken to the painters, i don't think they wanted the prices for these jobs out as public info. It would have made a better video (as you said), but i don't think it'd have been fair to disclose it if they didn't want me to 😀
Hopefully it raised some discussion as to the price painters and artists should charge.
@@BroadswordWargaming someone confident in their work wouldn’t be shy about disclosing their prices and would be able to justify their cost. I also have a side business (not painting related) and I openly share my pricing. Some people balk at the cost and ask for lower pricing and I don’t back down. Our level of service is extremely high and that time and effort comes at a cost. If people are only concerned with the lowest price, there are plenty of other options. 75% of people that look elsewhere come back to us after a bad experience and understand why our higher cost is justified.
So, these painters knew you'd display them online and didn't disclose their prices...?
This was a very interesting video for me. I've never been a strong painter, and when I decided to get back into Kill Team and then 40k, I used a commission painter. Fast forward a few years and I still use a commission painter, though mostly for HQ units, special Elite characters and things I honestly do not want to paint. Tanks, flyers and knights I enjoy painting. Little troops, not so much. I work with the painters to describe the colors I use on my troops and vehicles and spell out exactly what I am looking for. The painters I have used in the past, and the ones I use now are very receptive and happy for the details.
As for not being sure about the miniatures because I didn't paint them, I don't have that issue. Once they go on the board next to my troops and the dice start rolling, they are one big happy family to me. I'm always happy to let people know who painted my minis and the experience I've had. If the painters were good enough to work with me, I'm happy to spread the word and hopefully get them more work.
As for price, I am generally willing to pay as much for the paint job as the miniature(s) cost. So, for instance 10 skitarii I would be willing to pay $50-60 USD for a paint job for the unit.
Just my 2 cents as a consumer and casual painter.
As always, thanks for the video and chance to comment.
I'm a part-time commission painter, and yeah the £1 a mini guys are a problem, I charge £20 an hour, that covers my time and materials, and wear and tear on tools
I'd be up for a Beastgrave Warband if you wanted to do a follow up video, I'm on Instagram and Twitch if you want to see previous work
Great video and I'm the same. I do occasional commission painting. For me commission painting gives me a chance to paint different races, armies etc and help me improve and a bit of extra cash from time to time. I charge about 15 to 20 per model, but try to reflect also what the customer wants scheme difficulty wise. People have been happy with my rates. Got to factor in assembly time, varnishing, basing materials, etc and I'd say not being a major speed painting wizard it works out about £10 an hour as a rate
I think a lot of people would be put off by comission painter rates. Skilled labour is worth about £35 an hour generally to the public. This is your Plumbers, Mechanics, Interior Designers etc.
If you're looking at 2-3 hours per model for a good tabletop + standard like these then it's about £500 for 6 models. That's not including buying the models, any materials and shipping. Probably charging £20-25 an hour is as low as you could go. Any lower and you might as well get a minimum wage job doing anything else.
I would never use a commission painter - but I love painting. n the other hand, I don't have anything against people that do, it's your models, you do you.
What's it worth? I believe it's worth whatever you're willing to pay. If they want more than you're willing to pay for their work, then it's too much. If your time is more valuable than what they are offering to paint them for, then it's the right price.
Id say you're bang on there. Thats a great comment about the pricing and thats what it comes down to, time v money.
I don't think I'd use a commission painter on paint an army I wanted to play.. I don't feel any attachment to these models (not yet anyway), but I can see why people do it. 😀
Yeah. I feel if its worth it or not depends on how much you value your time. If spending 40h painting isn't something that can work for you, paying someone to do it seems like not a bad option. Additionally, I know people who hate the building/painting side of the hobby and only like the actual game-play parts, so for them, not doing something they strongly dislike doing is worth the extra money.
I'm a commission painter as my primary income. I've worked in traditional painting for longer professionally, but have painted miniatures far longer as a hobby - which has now become integrated into my profession. Typically, for display standard kill teams (assuming 5-6 models), I would be looking to charge somewhere in the region of £150-200. This is usually received as being very reasonable for the standard I produce, but even as a fast painter, works out to about minimum wage, when broken down into hours. Conversely, for traditional painting, I make about £20/hr, despite having far less experience (8 years traditional, Vs 29 in mini painting).
Id say your pricing is pretty solid (and in a similar region to some in the video) and if it works out as a living wage +, then keep at it. 😀 whack a link in to your page and ill check it out. 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming thanks mate! Probably the easiest place to see my collected work is either facebook.com/mspcart or twitter.com/thatmrshy1
I have fairly recently started at this RUclips malarkey too!
Great video, by the way. I really like how you represented commission work, very fair and level headed.
I stopped doing Commission work as I always found that people criminally undervalued the amount of work that goes into it.
I regularly got messages on Instagram from people who expected me to be willing to paint models for next to nothing and were shocked when I gave them an honest quote.
I think a lot of people have found that to be the problem when pricing. Id totally agree though, all we can do is continue to quote for our time, and if people are happy to pay that then great, if not, its not worth it. 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming Precisely, if people want to pay low prices then they should expect low quality. I know what I feel my time is worth and if people don't want to pay that then I have a large pile of shame of my own to get painted!
May be SprayBlack Studios has hit the nail on the head. Pay a low price and get a job akin to the speed paint job that Guy from Midwinter Minis completes. His paint jobs are usually striking and straight forward. Light on for detail but definitely battle ready and visually appealing. Usually about an hour to do squad of five. Or if they want super top stuff the price goes up with the hours and number of minis to paint.
I always paint myself, just more personal and creative for me, but totally think this was important to know how to pay for a good job being done! People deserve credit for such work.
Models all look amazing. As a tradesman myself I’d think x2 the model price seems like a good starting point for a good painter.
a cadian is worth 2 euros. 4 euros is really underpaying someone.
@@MurderHoboRPG hmm, i reckon i could nock out 10 guardsmen in 2 hours, depending on the level of detail of corse.
Many people only want a basic job on bulk infsntry
@@sundaymorninggaming3968 can you show me what 10 units in 2 hours would look like?
Fair enough folks I just thought it was a good rough estimate that would actually get sales.
In Canada Mortarion is around $180 and during a major financial crisis as we are in now and will be for a few years at least $360 sounds doable for labour. A kill team box is $70 roughly and $140 seems in the ballpark. Just a guess on my end as with all services the market will dictate the price.
@@MurderHoboRPG If you prime them in their uniform colour, applying base coat and wash shouldn´t be a big problem in 2h. This one by MWM is painted in 20min, but he does add some extra steps over the "minimum": ruclips.net/video/23qRkjcNBqo/видео.html
Deathwatch look great. An interesting black is really hard to do but he nailed it here. All the accents like the weapons, shoulder pads and cloaks are really well done too.
So much attention to detail right!? Really impressed with them, not an east scheme to pull off that way. Make sure to check out his work 😀
I could never commission paint someone elses army. Once I paint something, I get attached to it and I dont want to give it away lol
Im with you man, I dont lsibt my own stuff as it is! 😅
I felt this even when painting GIFTS haha
In my experience people would rather blow money on more models that they'll never build or do anything with rather than spend that money on a beautifully painted, finished and usable army.
This is true. Happy to spend £1k on models, but want 1 model for £1.
Harlequins, 5 or 6 times the cost of the models. Assembly is at least as much as the cost of the models, adding the opposing colors with airbrushing, gems, freehand, scenic elements on the base, leaning to 5 times to cost of the models seems reasonable.
Custodes, probably 5 times the cost of the models. Assembly as above, the keys here are the variations in the metallic colors on the armor, the blue NMM weapons, and the skins. Basic base, expensive if he's using GW products, but not too time consuming.
Deathwatch, this one is tough. The bases are simple, but the conversions are complex, and the highlighting on the black is very precise. It seems that these probably took the longest amount of time to complete, but time doesn't necessarily equate to quality or value. These also have a ton of small details done very well, in the lenses and wargear on the models. Probably 6 times the cost of the models.
Tau are the least precise, but also appear to have the most amount of steps in their process. Complex basing and additional stripping services are great additions. The lenses look fantastic and the weathering is a nice touch that can be tricky to pull off well. The various finishes is another tricky area that can go wrong quickly. Probably 5 or 6 times the cost of the models.
All of those paint jobs are really nice - I'd happily use any one of those killteams. That said - while I can see how it helps people who lack time or technical skill get an army on the table - I myself probably wouldn't outsource my favourite part of the hobby. An exception might be a single display piece from a painter who has a distinctive style - like getting a piece of original art for display purposes.
I have really no idea about the going rate for painted minis, but I'd say at that quality level a kill team might take between half a day and a day. So between 70 and 120 pounds for the squad, possibly?
I myself would probably paint my army myself as it becomes more personal. However, these are beautiful! I didn't see any flamers in your deathwatch, but if there are some additional boys to that crew make sure your flamer is a salamander or the internet will crucify you! 😁
Can't disagree with that. I do feel a little detached from these models, but I've not used them yet. And you're so right about the lack of flame.. that'll get me in trouble 🤣
They are awesome jobs and good for studio factikns I wouldn't collect myself, think im good with that. ME, PAINT TAU.. NEVER
@@BroadswordWargaming I've got to say... and Mabey I'm just lucky. But you have replied to every moment on every one of your videos that I've made. I would like to thank you for being (from my expirience so far) the best RUclips content creator ever in regards to replying to the comments made. Your the best😁
The whole question of commission painting or even buying a painted army on Ebay is what do you want from the hobby?
1. Do you want to play the game?
2. Do you want to build the models?
Or
3. Do you want to do both, in this case you have to realise that 2. will mean that 1. will be compromised while you paint and make the army.
It is interesting that you may have to realise that sometimes you may have compromise the other way too, maybe field not completely painted models. At which point a commission maybe helpful to complete a force.
Btw I'd love to bring a Kill team or two along when I visit my parents next in Ireland (lock down allowing) I PM'd you on Facebook about it a while ago.
1 Pound to 1.50 Pounds per model is equal to $1.33 to $1.99 US Dollars. Being as minimum wage varies from state to state, the lowest is $7.25 per hour up to the highest of $13.50 per hour. This means that just to earn minimum wage at $1.33 per model they would only be spending up to 11.01 minutes per model and if it was $1.99 per model they would only be spending up to 16.47 minutes per model. That is just to make a minimum wage of $7.25 per hour.
Now of it was in the 1 state where minimum wage is $13.50 per hour they could only spend up to 8.84 minutes per model for the $1.99 price per model and drops down to only 5.91 per model for the $1.33 price per model to make minimum wage.
Even with batch speed painting techniques I would find it very hard to believe that 16.47 minutes is enough time to reach the quality I would want reach on my models.
I know that most of the channel I watch for painting advice, tips, tricks, techniques and more who do commissions say basically that if you're going to commission some else to Build and Paint your miniatures you should expect to pay at least as much as you would pay for the retail price of those models. That is the bare minimum to expect to pay. Remember that you are paying them for their time, skills, knowledge, tools and materials to be used to do something that either you do not want to or can not do or do not have the time to do.
Now with all of that said, remember that you are hiring them to do a job for and both of you should have a completely clear and full understanding of what is being asked of each other with a signed contract clearly stating what is to be done, who is doing what, when it should be completed by and what the cost should be. Example: Person A is hiring Person B to build and paint a 10 model unit box of Space Marines Intercessors in a standard Iron Hands pattern with in a week of recieving them in the mail. They will be built with Auto-Bolters on a Desert terrain base. Once they are completed Person B will email photos of each model and a whole unit showing front side, right side, left side and back side for each. After which Person A will have 1 week to pay in full any outstanding balance of the agreed upon price of "X" amount which is "J for building, K for painting, L for basing and M for packing and return shipping costs". Once payment is received in full Person B will mail all 10 models, as shown in photos, back to Person A. If Person B is requested to alter or change from the originally agreed upon work, by Person A, this may cause them to add a change order billing that could result in additional payment needed before releasing the models to be mailed back to Person A. These sort of requests should only be made in writing and all terms need to be agreed upon before any additional work is preformed.
I was like, hey this is a neat comment. Then I clicked the show more. I didn't expect another 2 paragraphs XD also agreed. less that 20-30 or so min per model seems a bit questionable. Well, if you want something decent anyways.. I spent about 11 hours on ONE deathwatch guy for my kill team. (He was/is my first ever painted model, but still) I did a commission for one of my friends who provided me with all the paints I needed to do his Iron Warrior kill team so I ended up charging about 7$ per model. Def undercharged, but it was for one of my best friends so I didn't really care XD prolly would have been like 12-15 otherwise just bc Im still fairly new. Those Iron Warriors did win a local gw store painting competition tho
Wow every model you've shown it brilliant and as for someone doing a model for £1.50 I think that's way too cheap and would be worried about the end result . People do argue about prices but they forget everything you said about time and materials and these aren't free . Personally if I was to pay someone to paint a model for me I would send them a single at first to see how it came out before i stumped up the cash for an army .
That seems like a fine thing to do, reputation is so important here. There is a huge amount of trust given when posting an army to someone.
The artists need to earn a living wage too. 😀
Those Deathwatch are amazing! Others are good too...but all those details on the Deathwatch are mind blowing.
Yeah, theyre so nice.. i can't wait to get them in a game..😀 I'm really happy with all of them too.
Awesome video. I paid one in the past to paint a Legion of the Damned model for me because I loved them in the book they featured in. Very interesting. I hope they receive a fair price for their work. Looking forward to the next video. Keep up the good work.
Ah man, id love some legion of the damned, they're so cool! 😡😡
@@BroadswordWargaming they would be cool to have on the channel
I've recently got back in to the hobby after a 20 year break (yes, I'm old) and now find I've got more money and less time which is the opposite of when I started out. I can see the appeal of using commission painters which would let me enjoy the actual playing aspect without flooding the table with grey plastic. Definitely worth it if you're sitting on a large pile of shame...
I started commission painting d&d models about 2 years ago. I start at $15 for a basic tt level miniature. For a higher quality tt standard $20 and I charge $5-$10 for basing depending on the basing level. The time I spend is roughly 2-3 hours per miniature. It's not a full-time job otherwise my prices would have to double at minimum and probably triple to pay the bills. A really great artist can charge what they do, because it's their living. The hobbyists just dabbling in commission painting shouldn't get paid the same. I'm hoping in a couple more years I can get faster and be able to make enough money to do it for a living, but I still have more skills to learn and perfect before calling myself a professional painter and charging top dollar.
I know some people only like the game aspect of the hobby. I paint my own stuff, and do some commissions when I have the time or it's a project that gets my attention, maybe a new challenge, or something that I would enjoy making and haven't done in that way before. I do charge for my time and what I consider my meager skills (I'm my own worst critic I've been told) but I enjoy all aspects of the hobby.
Thats probably a very healthy way to look at it all. Do projects you want to work on, there is always someone to do something, so why not enjoy it.
You shoukd charge what you're comfortable with, without undervaluing yourself.
And of course we are all our own worst critics.. except for some people on the Internet 😅
I was thinking about buying a specific model to have professionally painted but I just can't bring myself to pay for something like a paint job on my model when I myself am learning how to paint minis. It would be like paying for a chance to not gain experience. Plus if you never get good enough at painting then we're does it stop? Would you get every model commissioned? Would you really care about your models if someone else painted them,probably not. Commission is cash grab and takes a lot of the fun and drama out of 40 k. Imagine painting a model for two weeks and you finally get to use it in game. Now you get to show it off and talk about how awesome it is and share tips with your club on how to paint it. Now its on the board and you spent a lot of time to get it there so your going to try to keep it alive the whole game. So now you've got a much more dramatic scenario because you actually put time and effort into painting and want to keep it alive so it will affect your mission planning and all that. If you just buy painted well once you find one thing wrong with how that army plays you will sell it and buy a new one wasting money and never finding something you really like. I like my orks because I panted all 150 of em. Now I'm startin to strip my first paint job and start new with experience I've gained in the last year. It makes the hobby more personal
IMO the quality went up with each set you showed, Harlies > Cust > DW > Tau. The Harlies were fine, but very much a basic, entry-level job for someone looking for a quick TT standard. The Custodes looked excellent, but were clearly an airbrush reliant scheme. The Deathwatch looked solid, and were a close second to that excellent weathering and tones of the Tau. I would say that aside from maybe the Harlequins (this isn't a judgement on the artist, they were just very basic, but clean and well painted), the work was all well above my level. All 4 are worthy of getting paid, but also clearly different standards.
IDK if it was his greenscreen reflecting on them or if those Tau actually had green mixed in the yellow. If the latter then I don't like it. Looks like some yellow pants that did a slide on the lawn
They all look great and I love the Harlequins. I used Skeptical Skull Studios for a commission and the models came out amazing!
Thanks for talking about a topic that seems taboo in the scene. I'm a full-time commission painter, and honestly, it's not something I would do long term. My long term goal is to build a community and starting my own LGS because there is simply no way to survive doing commission work along where I am from.
I agree, I dont knkw why its so taboo, it just is. Its strange. Hopefully i created some discussion about the whole thing and it allows people to get what they need to move forward, financially. Having multiple income streams is great, I hope it works out. 😀
Depends on model you want painted how much you should pay to get it done or if you paint then how much you should charge troops are easy to do but characters and more technical figures are very hard to value at paint time and skill
This commission video has helped with my painting decisions. Also keep up the amazing work
Was kinda hoping how much was the commission price per job
Hey, yes, that was actually the initial concept here. I think some of the artists weren't super keen on putting pricing out as irs a really subjective topic, and these were done in that way.
Hopefully (and I think it has) it just opens the door for people to talk about the value of their time, and a realistic cost of time and skill. 😀
I do commission painting, ( instagram.com/jetshroom ) one of the things I run into a lot is the price expectation. If I had an airbrush, I could replicate those paint jobs at my basic tabletop rate; $15AUD per mini. Most of my commission work is at that rate, and it's mostly 1-7 minis at a time. Usually DnD stuff. But I find in particular when it comes to armies or board games, people tend to expect MUCH lower costs than are safe for painters to charge. You get people enquiring about an army they've purchased that they want to show off with a display quality paint job, but they don't want to pay more than 1 or 2 dollars per mini. Unfortunately, painting minis takes time, and if it takes me an hour to paint a mini, you're going have to pay for an hour of my time, though I'm fortunate enough that I don't rely on commission painting for my survival.
Something I see a lot is people complaining that "I'd just paint it myself rather than pay that price." and when I hear that I say "Yes, exactly! Go do that!" that's something that gets forgotten a lot in these discussions is that people who paint their minis and armies aren't the target audience for commission painters. Most commission work is for people who don't want to paint, or don't know how to paint their stuff. I'm not here saying "Hey, don't paint your army yourself, I'll do it for you!" I'm saying, "If you don't want to paint your army, this is how well I paint, and this is how much I charge."
I am a full time commission painter and have been for almost three years now if you want to talk about the challenges of commission work I alway happy to talk. Great Video BTW. I feel a series of videos about what to expect from a commission painter and what you need to know if you are thinking of offering commission work would be great. Peace James
Good video 📹 I'm a commission painter and I would say I'm the cheapest around and really good painter 🎨 not to give myself a big head or anything
I commission paint (hoshineko.space , name drop there haha) and I find pricing the hardest aspect of the whole process. It really depends on the models, and the game system, so Bolt Action will be comparatively cheaper than 40K for example. I couldn’t even hazard a guess at what those guys would charge, I always feel as a consumer the ‘value’ is a personal preference. One person will think £60 for a character is reasonable, others won’t. I think that’s the hardest thing about commission work is finding a client base
Shamless plug approved 🤣
It does seem to be the way of it. Im learning a lot from all the threads around commission painting. It seems no one (buyer or artist) really knows what is an "appropriate" price.
I don't commision paint, but I have been freelance for years.. really, it shoukd be £15-£20 per hour, minimum right? Not to say you'll always get that, but has to be a good starting point.
The price is so subjective. People want (and expect?) A lot for very little, making people feel the need to undervalue themselves.
I love the battle-worn Tau but, the Deathwatch.... Wow.
All the armies are amazing, but yeah, so much brush work on those guys!
I’m a commission painter and I charge about $15-$20 per model (unless it’s a real big boy) and it’s rough to say what’s fair in this freelance line of work like Luca (Miniature Den) charges and is fully worth no less than $75 and can be as much as $750
Also I take between 1 to 75 pieces per commission depends on the client and my level of trust in them
the clowns look awesome as do the death watch!!
Theyre all lovely 😀
Best is when a consumer says. I have X amount of money. And then the artists tells the consumer what they can do for that money. second best is that the consumer tells them what models they need painted, and then the artist quotes them. and then its up to the artists and the consumer to negotiate any discounts
I'm really tired, so I might have missed it, but what was the verdict on how much we should pay for commission?
Those deathwatch are amazing!
They're beautiful aren't they.
The simple answer is "not enough". Minimum wage per hour + material costs should be the absolute lowest in any industry.
There are a couple of big blocks to people getting a fair fee for their work.
Any industry that has a big freelance community will always have those less experienced people keen to get themselves literally *any* job to build a portfolio, and that's what 99% of the market is battling against. The breakout stars will always have enough work but it's never an easy ride to the top.
"But it's your hobby, right?" No, it's your hobby, it's their job. Big difference. Just because you don't attach a cost to your time in painting minis, doesn't mean others should work for little to no fee.
Because of these issues, people will constantly undervalue the work, both the creators and commissioners.
Painters, please value yourselves more. If someone is asking you for a commission it means *they believe your work is good*. By all means, be flexible in how your present rates. If its large numbers of rank and file you can batch paint offer a "job price" that may attract a discount. Hero minis with a months worth of weekend and evenings? That could be a 40-hour production (or more!).
People asking for commissions, stop being a dick, the job costs what the job costs. If you dont like it, have the grace to say thanks and move on to someone who has the luxury (for any reason) to charge you less.
👊 exactly.
It would be cool to know what you paid, so we can get an idea of going rates
Hey 😀 Yes, that was my intention when we first spoke about the video as a concept.. but after some discussion, the painters weren't all comfortable with me putting the prices out.
I think it really comes down to each job being so subjective in price, which I can understand.
I do agree though, it would have been better to have put the prices out. 😀
Great video as usual, thanks for the info 😁 keep up the awesome work and stay safe
Thanks! 😀😀
Omg those Custodes are PRO
Stunning golds right!?
Thanks fella
I don't believe in using commission painters, a hobby should be a personal thing with personal achievement in painting up your own miniatures in your style being of the utmost importance.
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Having said that, I worked it out and I will be 247 years old when I finally paint up my current shelf of shame.
🤣🤣 my shame pile is awful.. i plan on leaving it to the grandchildren. THE LEGACY WILL LIVE ON.. or get sold for next to nothing.
@@BroadswordWargaming if i were to privately email you the txt files I had listing my Age of Sigmar / WH40k / Bloodbowl / Kill Team / Warcry / Bolt Action and Flames of Wars minis which I owned. You would call the cops. If I get the cash before I die I plan to get burried in a giant pyramid with my minis and boobie trap it for those Lara Croft suckers.
£35/£40 per model for a good standard.
£60/£100 + for HQ's
I paid £130 for someone to paint my pedro cantor and it was well worth it! It still looks as fresh as it did the day it was done. And it lifted my own standard of infantry painting to blend in with the quality delivered on my commission.
Thing is...as a general for me. I work hard...and i can earn extra money if i want to. I give time - time.
So working sideline i can raise a few hundred quid extra in a month, and that doesn't effect my living and playing money from my day job.
So...buying a cantor model and paying someone to paint it was practical for me. And for how it looks a few years on it was great value for money.
would love to work with some inks on your pile as well :D
That shame pile.. its still there. 😅 Working on ot though.
@@BroadswordWargaming actually i managed to reduce mine quite drastically by ... painting it ^^
Only mortarion and a maw krusha left... and one of them will go into a giveaway so
Oh yeah and a thousand sons start collecting box i just didnt feel like starting yet ^^
I used to charge roughly $8 AU per hour at my first rate and I couldn’t make enough to live on - not an easy question to answer to be honest 🧐🤔
Thats just it, its so subjective. Id love to have been able to give a straight answer, but I dont think I can. It has to be a living wage (which varies in each country), but you have to have customers too. I guess I just dont want people undervaluing their time. 😀
Hi like your channel...unrelated request but if you could do a video on making magnetic movement trays for Warhammer fantasy it would be very much appreciated :)
I could do something in magnetizing stuff, and bundle it all in as one 😀 and thanks, glad you enjoy it.
@@BroadswordWargaming yeah that would be great! I'm a total newb to the hobby so videos like that are really helpful! I've ordered some magnets and magnetic sheets which I'm gonna stick to cardboard and see how that goes...but when it all goes wrong a 'professional' :) video would be handy as well!!
You paid them in exposure? well done :)
Whilst I fully agree with the intended sentiment behind this message.. it was a collaborative effort. Much like the painters, I spent several days producing the content, using my equipment, time and space to do so. We have all probably spent the same amount of time to do it.
If you think in profiteering, like some evil land baron, rolling in my adsens money.. this video will make like $30 or something. 🤣
All of the painters are established, working commission painters, who were all more than happy to take part in a big video together.
I used a couple a while ago and the faces they painted on the models where shocking for what I paid. The others where alright though I guess it depends who you use
Yes, the standard seems to vary wildly, and the doesn't always relate to the standard. Its a shame you were unhappy with the finished result. 😐
Broadsword Wargaming I wouldn't of minded to much but the models where gaunts ghost and last chancers they out of print now
@@johnschweiger1079 oh those Last Chancers were amazing, I still have a few knocking around.
Broadsword Wargaming yeah they was I'd loved to see an updated version of them
The Deathwatch are by far the best. I don't like the Custodes at all. Mostly looks like lazy airbrushing and the purple skin is just weird. Their blades are nice though. The Tau are really nice also.
Haha! I'll take the feedback on board fella!
Haha, Medders!
@@medheadful I actually love the skin, I think it looks awesome!
@@rikokrates6298 thanks so much!!
These look fine but to me the best part of this hobby for me is painting the figures.
great video
Honestly I'd never commission someone because my guys wouldn't feel like MY guys
I totally understand that. I dont mind it for the channel, but id feel the same way as you do for an army i liked.
I get why people do it though..time, ability or just the hatred of painting 🤣
@@BroadswordWargaming oh, don't me wrong. I totally get why people do it and maybe if there was a big centerpiece to an army that needed to look good I'd at least consider it but probably not pull the trigger.
I'm happy that some talented people can make some money off doing something they're good at and that clients can get some clean looking models too.
I'd find out how much time they spent on the models and then pay per hour
That seems like the best way to do it! 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming I've recently employed a commission painter myself and am looking forward to seeing their work :)
@@SuperDominic4 excellent, let me know how you get on
My husband and I have moved on from a pile of shame to a room of shame ^^;
🤣 Well done. Ciara, my partner, has started with a kitchen corner of shame. To be fair to her, she does finish them all.. unlike me 🙃
For Liam’s Harlequins, he mentions this is his basic tier on his Instagram post. I would suggest £30-40 / model. The Kill Team to be £150-200.
For Medder’s Custodes I would suggest £60-90 / model. The Kill Team to be £300-450
Lennard’s Death Watch I would suggest £90-120 / model due to not only a painting commission but a heavy customisation of kit builds. The Kill Team to be £540-720
Ben’s Tau is a bit trickier due to the amount of models, varying sizes, colour schemes etc. I would suggest an average of £30-£40 / model. The entire set to be £1,200-1,600 for the 40 model’s
I mean no disrespect to any of the painters here, and this is based purely from feel and the information provided. I do not know how much time and effort has been put into each set and I have had to make some assumptions. All the work displayed is of a high quality by talented artists.
A good breakdown. I would charge about half of what you suggested for those 5 custodes. Need to up my prices ;)
You should send me a message on here I'm restarting my commission business. I do 3 level's basic tabletop, tabletop plus, tabletop/display. The majority of the models are below my level 1 some are but the better the painter better and faster basic painting gets even. I will gladly do a single model or squad for you if you will put it in a video.
i love your video!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks so much! 😀
I do comission works. My Instagram is @astartes_painter and I always talk to the customer what price it is worth for him to get his minis painted. And then the price changes from customer to customer.. thats a fair price model I think
As a painter I charge the price of the models plus the cost of paints that I don’t have. When I first started painting I would paint for free and then someone offered me payment. From the jobs here I say they should charge anything less then then the price of the model, plus a bit more due to skill. This is what I think however if anyone doesn’t agree please educate. My ig is @nerddaddypaints and I’m doing a wet palette and airbrush give away. I love painting. Remember “ if your good at something, you never do it for free “ - The Joker
There's an important factor in miniature painting for commission and that's time. Realistically, if you're charging someone for work, you should be charging based on an hourly rate that is sustainable + the cost of materials. With experience, you get a pretty good sense of how long it's going to take to paint a mini. For me, most standard tabletop jobs can be done in an hour. They're not great works of art, but they look pretty damn good on the tabletop. If someone wants a fancier paint job, more colour depth, freehand etc, you can't spend 5 hours on a mini and only charge the cost of a mini.
I really like deathwatch
Theyre so good right!?
I don't understand why you couldn't give us the price for each of these kill teams? There seems to be some secrecy to the pricing/cost of commission painting that no one is willing to discuss. I fully understand that price will vary depending on what level of painting you want, what types of models you want painting but when you have a finished product, why can you not disclose the final price???
I do feel somewhat the same way. It was my first intention when getting the video concept together, but some weren't that willing to do so because of fear of a lashback at costings.
It is a funny part of the hobby a did want to break open, but not at the expense of a faw good painters. I think we have to just look at how we value people's skill and time.
@@BroadswordWargaming I completely understand what you mean and I think it's a shame that the backlash is a reality that needs to be considered. I think the issue is that some people don't understand that commission painting is a profession that requires a lot of skill and time. It is not a case of people making money from their hobby, it is a job and a profession. We, as a community, should not shy away from discussing this and the costing of such services. Love the channel 👍
@@Tommy-go1ch totally! It is a shame, id have loved to have been upfront about it. I tried to be as close as i could. Hopefully it raises the topic (to some debate it seems), and puts out the idea that it isn't cheap. Also, the models are pretty 🤣
Thanks so much, I appreciate the support.
Never understand why people pay people to paint for them. Surely that's half the fun of the hobby
Thank you , Broadsword .
😃
I'm guessing 20-30 quid an hour?
Id think that's abiut right, yeah. 😀
Pay them like they pay interns
They should paint and make me coffee!
Tbh I would say the ratio must be 10 bucks for every miniature painted. This is a job so 10$ for a miniature in 1h is enough
here I am thinking " this guy has great production values and interesting video topics, but he has a horrible screen presence and really needs to relax and stop being so nervous." then he says "I've worked as an actor for 15 years". Really surprised you have managed to feed yourself.
Ha, thanks buddy! It really is a shocker right!? 😅😅
Dude, pay them for their work! :(
We did all agree to do this as a collaborative effort. Its an exchange of services, with my time spent filming/editing and promoting their services. In return, I got some painted miniatures.
I fully agree that people should be paid for their work, 100%. I do a lot of work for exposure or the cost of some mdf from another company.
A cross platform promotion benefits everyone here. The painters are all established artists and were happy to be involved. 😀
Is it pronounced “cuss-toads” or “cuss-toe-dees”
“Custo-dees” Custo as in Gusto, Dees as in Tee’s
Pronounced like so in the Black Library audiobooks
Always good to get lessons in Latin 🤣
The Immersive World Crafter ok that’s what I thought but I’ve heard cuss-toads so much I wasn’t sure
Custards. The vanilla sauce.
Clickbait. Doesn’t answer the question in the title just rambling on.
Its not really rambling nor clickbait. I had intended to put the prices for the work, but not all of the painters were happy to do so.. I can understand that.
Everyone has spent a lot of time to help produce this video. Im hardly a multi million follower channel using clickbait to generate income.
Hopefully I've helped shed some on the topic and create debate, as well as promote some beautiful miniatures. 😀
@@BroadswordWargaming I agree about not displaying prices, but I found it rambling and clickbaite based of watching and found nothing to the answer "what should you pay" - I think it would have been much informative to explain why you can expect to pay a decent amount as they are trying to make a living out of it and charging even £10 per model is wrong.
I've personally used commissioners before and understand the value of it.
A better title would have been "here is what to expected to get from commissions"
@@bladblabla I appreciate the reply.
I did go into some detail on what you shiukd expect to pay for freelancers time. I myself have some experience on the topic. I probably could have gone into more details on the topic, I can understand that.
Its always hard to gauge video length against high speed transitions and shots.
As for clickable videos and titles, its generally needed for tagging and SEO to get anyone to even click the video. RUclips is such a tough market to get into, but I do try to remain as upfront and honest about things as possible.
Thanks for the response though. 😀
Broadsword Wargaming yeah keep it up, I’ve watched your video previous and they are fun. I don’t generally comment but thought it important feedback. Even if it was a bit direct 😉
@@bladblabla 😀😀
I like your channel a lot, BUT can you PLEASE stop doing the angled camera shots PLEASE!! Just have the camera square on your face or angled at whatever models or tables you are trying to show us.
Glad you like the channel, thanks. I use a second camera angle to cut through takes/sentences etc, so just part of the process of making it smooth and without erms and ums. #camerasecrets
@@BroadswordWargaming I'd really rather have the"erms and ums"
Maybe you could do more shots of the models instead ad just voice over, like most of the other successful channels like Squigmar, Miniac or Black Magic Craft.
Oooo, you should check out Erics Terrain Workshop to see how it's done!!
are youre front teeth fake...... they seem like theyve been chipped once
No, they're not fake. They've just always been that way, its like a fluoride thing as a baby. If I had a couple of grand, I could get them capped, so.. taking donations! 😅
Rude as hell.
i dont think its rude...i had my front teeth chipped 2 and mine are also a shade more transparant since i quit smoking.....not rude
@@michielroskam3877 perhaps you didn't mean it to be rude. I'll take your word on that. But i still think it is rude to randomly comment on someone's appearance. Whether you mean it to be or not.
So I just started commission painting a few months ago , and I've done two full armies and a few individuals models so far. I typically charge $10 for troops, $15 for characters. Equivalent to the level of the Death Watch army in the video.
So do people think those are fair prices or am I under or over charging? Opinions welcome.
If they're that standard, im assuming they take a lot of time? I think it depends on the amount of time taken, you don't really want to be doing things for less than a living wage.
Are you happy enough with that much? 😀
Broadsword Wargaming oh I would totally be losing money if I count labor hours. I view it more as a way to subsidize my own hobby spending, not as a full time job.