Thanks for that. I found that these types of insights were missing in my own sailboat shopping. These were the things I was most curious about and the things I've enjoyed the most learning about sailing in deep ocean waters on Cadence. I'm glad they were helpful for you.
Full disclosure here: I am a Tartan owner. There's really *no* comparison between the Tartan and those other two boats. Tartans are designed and built for serious sailors by people who understand what sailors really need in a boat. The designers of the two other boats reviewed here apparently had something else in mind. I'm not going to list all of the reasons why the Tartan is my choice, because that would be too much for a comment (and it's good too see that this review also favors the Tartan. Good call, peeps!) I guess I should post a (lengthy) episode about that on my own channel. While Tartans are built for sailors, Jeanneaus and Dufours (and Beneteaus, don't forget...) are built for the charter trade. Every feature on those boats speaks to that. But some of these charter boat features are getting to be too extreme. The size of the hull portlights in the Dufour are nothing short of alarming to me. I have commented elsewhere that large hull portlights are just a *bad* idea all around, and that they reduce interior storage space (as pointed out in this review) is the least of their problems. What I never see in these boat reviews is a close look at structural features such as the chainplates (though these are pointed out (briefly) on the Tartan). Never mind about the little makeup table that slides out over the sink in the forward cabin, I want to see what the effin' *chainplates* look like, especially on these modern rigs that seem to regard backstays as an inconvenience--the Jeanneau and the Dufour look like they have double backstays, but especially in the case of the Jeanneau it's hard to tell, and that would be nice to know too. Another structural feature almost never commented on: is the mast stepped on the keel or stepped on deck? The Tartan's mast is stepped on the keel (and most know that before even stepping aboard), while the other two boats have deck-stepped masts with compression posts... you can probably guess what I would say about that. Now I'm going to make an aesthetic judgement. These modern sailboats, especially with their plumb bows, reverse sheers, and angular design details, just don't look like sailboats to me. The Tartan has a classic style to it, with a traditional bow, sweet sheerline, and small opening portlights (it's very important for both safety and comfort that *all* portlights be small and that they all open... oh yeah, and that they NOT BE IN THE HULL). And finally... the Tartan is *pretty*. Those other boats are not.
Tartans have a fantastic level of craftsmanship. Dufour & Jeanneau are flimsy production boats. Look at examples of all 3 that are 5 & 10 years old and you'll see exactly what I mean. Pricing will reflect...
Sure. When sailing offshore the sink needs to be above the waterline. This only happens on the windward side or the centerline. The forward facing nav station aft of the mast is super comfy for night watch, and least prone to sea sickness. When the weather is bad, that's where I'd helm the boat.
Outstanding video. Your perspective and experience is awesome. My favorite was the Tartan, then the Jenneau and dissappointed in the Dufour. Love your channel, it's my favorite. Would love to see your boat if your ever docked in Myrtle Beach. Doug
As always, I loved the video. Your insights on what makes a sailboat good for living on are priceless! Before long, you should be able to charge people for consultations like Lady K does. Keep it up!
Liked the video. Don't care for the move toward sail drive on many of the manufacturers' boats. The added maintenance and potential for a catastrophic leak are too much of a con for me. Can't beat Catalina for a production boat!
Can’t bet that real wood in the Tartan. My 2021 Jeanneau SO440 laminate is already falling apart. On the Jeanneau SO410 you can’t sit down without the forestay jabbing you in the back.
Funny, cause we've been thinking about a video on that topic. Here's one example...Nancy and I were talking just yesterday, about how she wouldn't mind tackling a larger, slightly more-of-a-project boat now that she's been on one for 3 years. That was not an option in our original shopping. Of course, I've been very accommodating to my ladies onboard as I believe that's the secret sauce to good relations onboard.
The American made boats in general share interesting and specific qualities over the European designs, in my opinion. The quality is also notably better and more rugged. I love the large cockpits on the Euro boats. But underway in Bluewater there is no question which boat is more safe and secure in challenging conditions. Thanks for the video.
how could you possibly sleep three people on a rough passage on these condo boats. on the Dufor you cant even wedge yourself in as the sides are open. I get the v-berth is not a passage berth anyways but didnt seem like there was much arrangment for sleeping in rough weather anywhere on that boat from the walkthroughs. they seem like perfect 'at anchor' boats though. So when are you buying the Tartan? I will very much enjoy seeing your next season sailing it.
It'd be fun to sail it next season!! And good point on the berths. I also noticed the salons in the Dufour and the Sun Odyssey only have a good berth for a single tack. If you tack, you can't sleep in the salon...well you could until you roll off. lOl
Hi Guys - thank you showing us the boats. We want to head to the boat show next year. For our thoghts - We love our Catalina 387 better than any of these newer boats..........
I think that's why we liked the Tartan so much - it felt like an updated 387. But did you know, it's the same length, same beam, yet 2,000lbs lighter keel and overall displacement? I'm sure its faster in lighter air, but not sure it's as comfortable when the 20 knots start blowing. I am curious though.
So when you buying the tartan ? We have liked the dufours in the past but you are right about the lack of ventilation, we have a Jeanneau DS but an older one . I think we likes ours better , now the tartan on the other hand was amazing, was it a full keel ? I think that would be the only thing that would put me off as a fin keel gives you better maneuverability
Ha, that'd be nice...I'd take any new boat (imperfections included). All three boats are lighter weight than Cadence, which makes me wonder how they hold up with oncoming ocean chop.
I like how you point out what works/doesn't work offshore. Any sailboat will work in a bay.
Thanks for that. I found that these types of insights were missing in my own sailboat shopping. These were the things I was most curious about and the things I've enjoyed the most learning about sailing in deep ocean waters on Cadence. I'm glad they were helpful for you.
Tartan !!!
🙌 yes!
Full disclosure here: I am a Tartan owner.
There's really *no* comparison between the Tartan and those other two boats. Tartans are designed and built for serious sailors by people who understand what sailors really need in a boat. The designers of the two other boats reviewed here apparently had something else in mind.
I'm not going to list all of the reasons why the Tartan is my choice, because that would be too much for a comment (and it's good too see that this review also favors the Tartan. Good call, peeps!) I guess I should post a (lengthy) episode about that on my own channel.
While Tartans are built for sailors, Jeanneaus and Dufours (and Beneteaus, don't forget...) are built for the charter trade. Every feature on those boats speaks to that. But some of these charter boat features are getting to be too extreme. The size of the hull portlights in the Dufour are nothing short of alarming to me. I have commented elsewhere that large hull portlights are just a *bad* idea all around, and that they reduce interior storage space (as pointed out in this review) is the least of their problems.
What I never see in these boat reviews is a close look at structural features such as the chainplates (though these are pointed out (briefly) on the Tartan). Never mind about the little makeup table that slides out over the sink in the forward cabin, I want to see what the effin' *chainplates* look like, especially on these modern rigs that seem to regard backstays as an inconvenience--the Jeanneau and the Dufour look like they have double backstays, but especially in the case of the Jeanneau it's hard to tell, and that would be nice to know too.
Another structural feature almost never commented on: is the mast stepped on the keel or stepped on deck? The Tartan's mast is stepped on the keel (and most know that before even stepping aboard), while the other two boats have deck-stepped masts with compression posts... you can probably guess what I would say about that.
Now I'm going to make an aesthetic judgement. These modern sailboats, especially with their plumb bows, reverse sheers, and angular design details, just don't look like sailboats to me. The Tartan has a classic style to it, with a traditional bow, sweet sheerline, and small opening portlights (it's very important for both safety and comfort that *all* portlights be small and that they all open... oh yeah, and that they NOT BE IN THE HULL). And finally... the Tartan is *pretty*. Those other boats are not.
Great points. I wonder how the plumb bow performs downwind in big seas...I'd imagine it has a tendency to "grab" the water favoring a broach scenario
Always loved Tartans. They have made a bunch of great boats over the years.
Tartans have a fantastic level of craftsmanship. Dufour & Jeanneau are flimsy production boats. Look at examples of all 3 that are 5 & 10 years old and you'll see exactly what I mean. Pricing will reflect...
Can you share a little more about why you like the nav station and the Tartan sink?
Sure. When sailing offshore the sink needs to be above the waterline. This only happens on the windward side or the centerline. The forward facing nav station aft of the mast is super comfy for night watch, and least prone to sea sickness. When the weather is bad, that's where I'd helm the boat.
I think you'll find the camber on the tartan is so it's flat when heeled to make it safer to move forward under passage. Enjoyed your reviews
I'm glad you enjoyed the reviews, thx!
Outstanding video. Your perspective and experience is awesome. My favorite was the Tartan, then the Jenneau and dissappointed in the Dufour. Love your channel, it's my favorite. Would love to see your boat if your ever docked in Myrtle Beach. Doug
Thx, it's cool to hear we're your favorite channel!! Woohoo!
As always, I loved the video. Your insights on what makes a sailboat good for living on are priceless! Before long, you should be able to charge people for consultations like Lady K does. Keep it up!
Ooh, I actually would enjoy that work. It's a blend of education, coaching, and sailboats - ALL things I'm passionate about. -Matt
Great looking sailboats, I liked the Sun Odyssey, but liked the blue color on the Dufour.
I liked that blue too.
Yeah, we liked the blue too.
@@kellycastillo6323
One sailboat and two floating cottages with sails. Make up your own mind after deciding what you want to do with it.
Good point!
Liked the video. Don't care for the move toward sail drive on many of the manufacturers' boats. The added maintenance and potential for a catastrophic leak are too much of a con for me. Can't beat Catalina for a production boat!
Yep, I agree. On the sail drive and the Catalina...biggest quality bang for buck.
Nice reviews. No 40ft Bene on display? Tartan was a nice boat.
Yes, but we didn't have time to visit the Benes this year.
Jeanneau and Dufour great for family sailing but no way I would want to do ocean sailing in them. Tartan does it for me.
Wow! Tartan hit the nail on this one. Impressed.
ruclips.net/video/TroDy1AHL2I/видео.html perfect example of tartan deatils... look at that cut lol
Can’t bet that real wood in the Tartan. My 2021 Jeanneau SO440 laminate is already falling apart. On the Jeanneau SO410 you can’t sit down without the forestay jabbing you in the back.
Oh no, sorry to hear about the laminate. We've seen similar on catamarans.
After watching all your " buying a sailboat" videos I'm interested in how your last couple of years changes how you view different different boats.
Funny, cause we've been thinking about a video on that topic. Here's one example...Nancy and I were talking just yesterday, about how she wouldn't mind tackling a larger, slightly more-of-a-project boat now that she's been on one for 3 years. That was not an option in our original shopping. Of course, I've been very accommodating to my ladies onboard as I believe that's the secret sauce to good relations onboard.
The American made boats in general share interesting and specific qualities over the European designs, in my opinion. The quality is also notably better and more rugged. I love the large cockpits on the Euro boats. But underway in Bluewater there is no question which boat is more safe and secure in challenging conditions. Thanks for the video.
Yep, I think we've seen the same with Tartans, Catalinas, and Island Packets. Good quality over apartment-like curb appeal.
Nice VIDEO!
Thanks!
Does this mean we will see a new sailboat in your future??-)) Thanks for fueling Shelley's boat envy
Ooh, one can only dream!
Hey man that is NOT an in boom furler. Tartans come with an optional Leisure Furl in- boom furler but the boat on display in not one of them.
Yep, that's the pocket boom, also an option, but made in house by AMP. For a pocket boom it looks pretty damn good to my eye.
Love the Tartan! Sorry we missed seeing you at the boat show. Glad you got to experience it!
Us too! On the Tartan and on missed meeting you!!
Dufour and Odyssey just aren't in the same league with Tartan...
Yep, I think you're right 👍
how could you possibly sleep three people on a rough passage on these condo boats. on the Dufor you cant even wedge yourself in as the sides are open. I get the v-berth is not a passage berth anyways but didnt seem like there was much arrangment for sleeping in rough weather anywhere on that boat from the walkthroughs. they seem like perfect 'at anchor' boats though.
So when are you buying the Tartan? I will very much enjoy seeing your next season sailing it.
It'd be fun to sail it next season!! And good point on the berths. I also noticed the salons in the Dufour and the Sun Odyssey only have a good berth for a single tack. If you tack, you can't sleep in the salon...well you could until you roll off. lOl
@@TheFosterJourney lol that sounds better than setting an alarm. Guaranteed to wake you up.
No information on the cost of a typically configured example of each boat?
I gave prices in the pizza talk around the 8minute mark.
@@TheFosterJourney Oh heck, I dunno how I missed it - thanks
I'm NOT a sailor BUT that Tartan checked all the right boxes it seemed, but again since I am not a sailor take that with a grain of salt.
Hi Guys - thank you showing us the boats. We want to head to the boat show next year. For our thoghts - We love our Catalina 387 better than any of these newer boats..........
I think that's why we liked the Tartan so much - it felt like an updated 387. But did you know, it's the same length, same beam, yet 2,000lbs lighter keel and overall displacement? I'm sure its faster in lighter air, but not sure it's as comfortable when the 20 knots start blowing. I am curious though.
Great video!!! 17m went by and I'm like what...I want more!
You and me both!
Good notes on the cockpits. Do you think the other two cockpits are too big?
I noticed the Jeanneau had deep comings...maybe the deepest. Do you thinks it's too wide, though?
No, it just feels better at sea to be able to tuck in with deep comings and not have to walk 10ft across to a winch.
And just like that I need a Tartan 395
Just like that 😉
So when you buying the tartan ?
We have liked the dufours in the past but you are right about the lack of ventilation, we have a Jeanneau DS but an older one . I think we likes ours better , now the tartan on the other hand was amazing, was it a full keel ? I think that would be the only thing that would put me off as a fin keel gives you better maneuverability
Ha, that'd be nice...I'd take any new boat (imperfections included). All three boats are lighter weight than Cadence, which makes me wonder how they hold up with oncoming ocean chop.
@@TheFosterJourney how heavy is your sailboat ours is 11gross tons
9.5 tons dry @@SVFresh2Salty
Tartan do not have a full keel They have three keels abvaialble