Cheers mate! Can't believe how long this thing turned out, but in the end I figured I'm never going to explain what SWL means ever again so may as well go for detail
Cool vid! The black one I'd say failed much earlier, as it bent in a way where you wouldn't reuse it. If you were to use it in a dynamic way, the rope in it would likely bounce out of the 'biner and get let go. Stainless steel gear for climbing is a thing, as it can be tinier than aluminum, even if heavier. It seems to chew through rope faster, though, and rope ain't cheap.
I love this video, to see the tests before my eyes! As a designer and engineer I have to say something though. To say that CE "doesn't carry that much weight" because it is self reported is a bit weird and wrong in my opinion. If the designers have done their job correctly they've designed it to meet applicable product and safety standards and have all documentation proving it. It is of course a huge liability for the company to CE mark without doing the work and documenting it. Fake markings and certifications is of course another thing, doesn't matterif it's a CE or a NASA marking :) I do not know anything about the specific ISO product or safety standards for climbing gear so a can't be more specific. I have worked with design of lifting equipment though. CE marking, depending on the complexity of the product or system, can drive a hell of a lot of work for the whole product design team and is vital to any company in order to be Regulation Compliant and thus being allowed to sell their products on European market.
Hi great info thanks! What I mean there is, CE is not as important as activity-specific compliance. Like for a climbing carabiner the best thing to have is EN 12275 or UIAA 121 which are specific for climbing carabiners. www.theuiaa.org/documents/safety-standards/Pictorial_UIAA121%20Connectors.pdf In my mind, a CE mark is a sign that the manufacturer is doing things right in a more general way, kinda like ISO900. It's definitely much better than something without any compliance, as it shows they're keeping records, have traceability etc. But it's not as strong a mark as say, the UIAA mark on climbing gear. Does that sound fair? I've never worked on a CE marked product myself so I'm keen to hear about the process from someone who has
Somewhat disagree. In the end, it's just a promise by the manufacturer just like any other marking, and how useful that is depends on who is making the promise. Penalties are useless if it is branded by a typical "spin up a new one every week" company in a country that won't enforce penalties.
Yeah totally. I'm trying to do some carrot testing so it'll definitely come in handy. Wanna email mountainmullet55 at gmail dot com and we can discuss?
It's so interesting how much design affects strength. A 8mm stainless steel quicklink will break at like 30-40kN, that carabiner is quite far from what the material is capable of.
For sure! Most stainless things (quick links, bolts) I've tested have come out even stronger than expected due to work hardening I think. Here the SS snaphook broke over 9kN and that was actually the tiny gate pin that sheared off! It's like 1mm thick
Design plays a huge role. We've had stainless steel QLs made from 8mm rod stock from one seller/factory fail at like mid-20s, whereas others break at almost 70kN. There can also be a large range with the exact same QL if tolerances aren't as tight.
Yeah and on top of material quality, the main thing is cross-sectional area. These snap hooks have small areas of steel holding the load at the nose, unlike QLs which have whole threaded sections. And then if you make the threads thicker than the bar, it should be even stronger
I have a number of camp nano 22's for just every day stuff(like attaching stuff to a backpack etc). They are much lighter and higher quality than the cheap steel ones. And honestly not that expensive. I don't really need the strength, but the lower weight and the very reliable action of the gate really sell it for me.
Sure why not? I think I got mine in packs of 6 for about 36 bucks, so not much more expensive than much weaker ones. Plus you can use them for like emergency descent or whatever
So great to find an Aussie reviewer!
Cheers mate!
Fun testing and good tidbits of info. Thanks Matt!
Cheers mate! Can't believe how long this thing turned out, but in the end I figured I'm never going to explain what SWL means ever again so may as well go for detail
Cool vid! The black one I'd say failed much earlier, as it bent in a way where you wouldn't reuse it. If you were to use it in a dynamic way, the rope in it would likely bounce out of the 'biner and get let go.
Stainless steel gear for climbing is a thing, as it can be tinier than aluminum, even if heavier. It seems to chew through rope faster, though, and rope ain't cheap.
I love this video, to see the tests before my eyes!
As a designer and engineer I have to say something though. To say that CE "doesn't carry that much weight" because it is self reported is a bit weird and wrong in my opinion. If the designers have done their job correctly they've designed it to meet applicable product and safety standards and have all documentation proving it. It is of course a huge liability for the company to CE mark without doing the work and documenting it. Fake markings and certifications is of course another thing, doesn't matterif it's a CE or a NASA marking :)
I do not know anything about the specific ISO product or safety standards for climbing gear so a can't be more specific. I have worked with design of lifting equipment though. CE marking, depending on the complexity of the product or system, can drive a hell of a lot of work for the whole product design team and is vital to any company in order to be Regulation Compliant and thus being allowed to sell their products on European market.
Hi great info thanks!
What I mean there is, CE is not as important as activity-specific compliance. Like for a climbing carabiner the best thing to have is EN 12275 or UIAA 121 which are specific for climbing carabiners. www.theuiaa.org/documents/safety-standards/Pictorial_UIAA121%20Connectors.pdf
In my mind, a CE mark is a sign that the manufacturer is doing things right in a more general way, kinda like ISO900. It's definitely much better than something without any compliance, as it shows they're keeping records, have traceability etc. But it's not as strong a mark as say, the UIAA mark on climbing gear.
Does that sound fair? I've never worked on a CE marked product myself so I'm keen to hear about the process from someone who has
Somewhat disagree. In the end, it's just a promise by the manufacturer just like any other marking, and how useful that is depends on who is making the promise. Penalties are useless if it is branded by a typical "spin up a new one every week" company in a country that won't enforce penalties.
Any interest in testing some removable bolt hangers ? I'll donate some PFH hangers and try to source some others.
Yeah totally. I'm trying to do some carrot testing so it'll definitely come in handy.
Wanna email mountainmullet55 at gmail dot com and we can discuss?
Great video. I’ve been using 10mm PS snap hooks for a couple routes, so it was nice to know what I’m working with.
I've got some 10mm ones, can test this week if you're interested!
That would be great! Thanks for your hard work. I should probably switch them out for stainless captive eye carabiners now that they’re so affordable.
Test paraglider carabiners!
It's so interesting how much design affects strength. A 8mm stainless steel quicklink will break at like 30-40kN, that carabiner is quite far from what the material is capable of.
For sure! Most stainless things (quick links, bolts) I've tested have come out even stronger than expected due to work hardening I think.
Here the SS snaphook broke over 9kN and that was actually the tiny gate pin that sheared off! It's like 1mm thick
Design plays a huge role. We've had stainless steel QLs made from 8mm rod stock from one seller/factory fail at like mid-20s, whereas others break at almost 70kN. There can also be a large range with the exact same QL if tolerances aren't as tight.
Yeah and on top of material quality, the main thing is cross-sectional area. These snap hooks have small areas of steel holding the load at the nose, unlike QLs which have whole threaded sections. And then if you make the threads thicker than the bar, it should be even stronger
300 pounds ~= 136 kg
I have a number of camp nano 22's for just every day stuff(like attaching stuff to a backpack etc). They are much lighter and higher quality than the cheap steel ones. And honestly not that expensive. I don't really need the strength, but the lower weight and the very reliable action of the gate really sell it for me.
Sure why not? I think I got mine in packs of 6 for about 36 bucks, so not much more expensive than much weaker ones. Plus you can use them for like emergency descent or whatever