The Bumpy Ride of the Leyland Princess
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2020
- This is a reupload of my original Leyland Princess video from January, now with revised video clips, a restructured layout and a few corrections - big thanks to those who pointed them out to me. :)
The Leyland Princess had many good ideas, but unfortunately, as British Leyland continued to cut costs wherever possible, these were sadly cut down and discarded, resulting in what was basically half a car with only one redeeming but troublesome feature.
All video content and images in this production have been provided with permission wherever possible. While I endeavour to ensure that all accreditations properly name the original creator, some of my sources do not list them as they are usually provided by other, unrelated RUclipsrs. Therefore, if I have mistakenly put the accreditation of 'Unknown', and you are aware of the original creator, please send me a personal message at my Gmail (this is more effective than comments as I am often unable to read all of them): rorymacveigh@gmail.com
The views and opinions expressed in this video are my personal appraisal and are not the views and opinions of any of these individuals or bodies who have kindly supplied me with footage and images.
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References:
- AROnline (and their respective sources)
- LeylandPrincess.co.uk (and their respective sources)
- Wikipedia (and its respective sources) 
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My dad finally sold his ancient and rust-eroded 1967 Rover 2000TC and bought a brand new Princess 2 1700HLS, in a sort of mustard colour, with a chocolate coloured vinyl roof and matching velour interior. I was tremendously excited the day we went to pick it up from the showroom - we had never had a new car before. With its tinted windows it looked really good. He loved it. I remember it being quiet and comfortable, and as far as I'm aware it never broke down. He kept it for about six years until he became too ill to drive and traded it in for a truly awful Skoda Estelle, which he never got to use much as he died shortly after. The Skoda had the heaviest clutch and worst gear change I have ever experienced and was the most sluggish car I have ever had the misfortune to drive, and was totally unsuitable for my then widowed mother, as she was also ill. It was subsequently traded in, at a huge financial loss for a year-old car, for a second-hand Fiesta, and that was the last of the line of our family cars. I have fond memories of the Princess.
Well written. You should consider submitting to readers digest ( if they're still around )😁
@barry rudge , I had one and it was excellent, hydrlastic suspension was brilliant and gave an excellent ride.
a sensible take on the BL motor.. not all were bad...anyone ever drive a Fiat 124 !!! shocking piece of kit and should we talk about Lancia Betas rust buckets ? No it' is always easy to bash UK workers.....
@barry rudgeMy princess 2200 HLS was very good no problems or trouble very reliable only cost me £80 at an auction i was very lucky with mine, it was a good car
my dad had 2 iirc as sales reps cars . only let him down once a carb problem iirc i was only a kid at the time used to get changed at 2 years old or 60 k .
Wasnt the best car he said but not complete crap either
I drove my Dads Wolseley 2200 HLS when I was a young driver. One of the most comfortable cars I’ve ever been in (apart from a Citroen), for its time it went well too, straight six I think. Much better than equivalent Fords and Vauxhall’s.
It’s so easy to criticise these cars with the benefit of hindsight, especially if you weren’t even born at the time.
TonyS
I had one in '82, most comfy and quiet car I'd had up till then, bit rusty but wasn't everything.
I had one a princess 2 HLS 2.2 nice ride very comfortable car with power steering it never broke down once
Drove my dads 2200 brilliant car for all it’s faults, great space and could do 0-60 in second much to the embarrassment of many XR3s. .. maybe not a hatch back but boot was huge and interior space great.
Nice response
My mate had a 2200 in the 90's and we regularly drove to London in exquisite comort and high speed, 100+ miles down the M1 to all night reggae gigs. The police stopped us outside a Shakka gig, searched the car, found the double coconut bong and said " Ok carry on"
Whereas the Rastas inside gave us shit until they realized it was Ganga and not Heroin we were smoking 😜🤣
I owned a Princess 1800, bought it 11 months old with just over 10,000 on the clock. Lime green metallic paint job, I loved it. Best suspension I ever had on a car. Kept it for 7 years, had 85,000 miles when I sold it. Only trouble I had were 2 spheres leaked over the years. I was shocked when quoted £117 for a new one (a fortune then) but managed to get one from my local scrapyard for a tenner. Apart from that, servicing and the usual things like tyres and an exhaust were all I ever replaced on it. Happy days!
Had one for four years, the most comfortable and roomy car I ever had, never a problem, never a breakdown in 140,000 km.
Then it was stolen and never found.
Wanted an Ambassador, never imported in the Netherlands.
I had an Ambassador as a second car for a couple of years. Strangely I never had any real problems with it except that the windscreen wipers had a tendency to break down. It was a practical and fairly comfortable car. Far better than the SD Rover 3500 that I had for a few years. Truly awful car. In the first 12 months it was back to the supplier 11 times. If it rains it wouldn't start, the rear hatch would pop open if a window was opened and the bonnet tended to pop open as well. The worst car I've ever had.
@@mscott3918
Had a SD1, the 2600, was a nice car, but I preferred the Princess, cheaper to run, very much cheaper in maintenance and much more comfortable.
The Ambassador could have been so much more, but the lack of 5 speed ‘box, compromised engine power and the cheap looking dashboard didn’t endear it to the buying public, who preferred Vauxhall Cavaliers and Talbot Alpines, which were its main rivals, followed by the Ford Sierra in 1983. Pity, because the Ambassador looked good (to my eyes), was very roomy with a huge boot, and offered amazing ride quality.
It wasn't stolen. It simply rusted away over night.
I had two Princesses, a 1980 2.0HL in Denim Blue metallic and then a 1981 2.2 HLS in Pageant Blue. The 0 series engine in the 2.0HL was excellent and had no problem cruising at 90 mph. The car was very spacious and quiet at speed. The ride quality was fantastic.
What was totally crazy was if a hatchback was not offered, then there should have been an estate version. Leyland repeated this mistake with the Ambassador. The HLS had better seats with front armrests, but the straight six engine really didn’t offer much more performance and being very heavy affected the handling. Altogether this was a fine car with good rustproofing. It was also very good as a tow car for the large caravans I had at the time.
I remember many people throwing off at the Austin Princess in the late 70s (as it was known in New Zealand) Eventually I bought one because I wanted to see for myself. Quickly I came to the conclusion that everyone was wrong.
At the time I was familiar will all the so call good cars such as the HQ Holdens, and Cortinas. In comparison, the Princess was a winner. The Princess has more room inside than the HQ and made the Cortina feel like a microcar. inits crammed interior It well out handled the Cortina and the HQ and outperformed the HQ Holden (202).
The Cortina 2.0 was faster and was a lot nicer through the gears. However, the popular 1.6 Cortina was hopeless in comparison to the O Series 2.0 Princess.
The Princess was actually very reliable for cars of its time. If only it had been a hatchback from the start.
Maybe.. but a HQ Holden looks so much better than a Princess. So does a cortina .
Customer clinics preferred a boot....
I think it was called the late 70s everywhere
@@jamesmckay-mount8689 🤣🤣🤣
I had one and my late father bought one new , neither of the two cars ever had any problems - maybe we were just lucky .....
Or they were far better than the press would tell!
@@johnedfwards9823 That's nearer the truth. Anything British (particularly B. Leyland) was always slated by the press. My 2200 HLS was a terrific car, I loved her, so much so that to keep my wife happy I had to put a "couple" of gallons in without her knowing as she prided herself on being a MPG fanatic.
Wannabe Clarkson. They were no worse than other cars of the era. BL was just a nationalised collection of failed private companies that a Thatcherite press wanted to do down.
@Michael Hunt Had the same model as you for 3 years. Never had a problem and everything worked. Not bad for a car built by communists.
The car in the opening sequence was identical to mine - orange with black vinyl roof. I had an Ambassador, too. Both had the O series 1.7 engine. Picked them up for peanuts second hand. Good cars. Served me faithfully and could carry a lot of stuff.
As someone who grew up in Oxford through the 80's until this year, the sheer size of the Cowley works back then was utterly staggering. They now make the BMW/Mini in a tiny amount of what use to be there. I worked for an Oxford brewery in the early 00's in a pub a few miles from the works and a lot of the guys who use to work on the lines in the 70's ended up in the post office (which has a depo built on the old works site). They were so happy to go on strike even 20+ years later over the smallest of reasons, which caused the Royal Mail to close the depo and move it to a different city. Militant, no, workshy is more like it.
My uncle worked on the lines in the 80's and part of the 90's when they started selling off land and reducing the workforce. The damn fools on those lines thought BL/Rover was "too big to fail" or "they will get bailed out again". If BL had never formed and each company had to make it on their own, there is a good chance that Jaguar/Land-Rover would not be the only surviver left from BL.
I too wonder if any of those workers that used to strike think now in retrospect that it was worth it.
I don't know, things are never black and white, but in the long run, everybody lost.
Why should I they care? They could always rely on benefits.
Well said 👏 I'm also from Oxford, and I've seen BL kill itself.
I agree with that, the company was too big for its own good, with too much internal competition (MG vs. Triumph being the prime example of that). You can say that even as early as 1952 it started to go wrong with the formation of BMC, bringing top competitors Morris and Austin within one company. That was never going to be a good idea.
@@johang7498 When you go into depth about that kind of stuff, you find out that BL biggest competitor would typically be itself, thanks for them having too many different brands and never enough funding.
One story I came across is when Ford bought a Mini to work out how BL were selling them for so cheap. They discovered that BL was losing a large amount of money on each Mini sale. Alarmed by this, Ford got in touch with BL and BL ignored them and it took them a further 2 YEARS before they worked it out.
As a student, I had a 2.2 Princess from 1985, which I kept for around five years. It was a top of the range model with tinted windows, velvet seats, teak dashboard and gearstick. It was smooth, very quiet, reliable and one of the most comfortable cars I have ever owned.
Hi all :)
Just as another interesting anecdote I originally had in the video, but cut out for time, there was more to the story of the Leyland Princess that ended up on Top Gear in the 2008 episode. I had the pleasure to meet the founder of the Leyland Princess enthusiast website at the NEC Lancaster Insurance Car Show in November 2014, and he explained to me that he was the owner of that Princess, and several others, before it appeared on Top Gear.
In around 2007, the BBC got in contact with him and asked if they could buy one of his Princess cars, which he accepted, but they also asked him how to release some of the solution from the Hydragas system, and thus he instructed them. This, therefore, is the reason why the car had an apparent lean throughout the episode, rather than a production fault or poor reliability. Before parting ways with his Princess, the owner asked if he would be able to get his car back once shooting had finished, to which the BBC buyer bluntly told him "Once we're finished with it, you won't want it back".
Not a particularly noteworthy story, but an interesting little behind-the-scenes trivia as to one of the more memorable Top Gear episodes. :)
Top Gear was rather instrumental in destroying the British car industry, yes, also by using all kinds of dirty tricks to obtain the wanted results.
I loved that episode.
1:04 the traction avant is from 1934 not 1954 btw ;)
@@hans2406 They did a similar thing to the Reliant and probably many more cars in an attempt to provide an entertaining narrative.
I think they were taking back-handers from the French & Italians who couldn't make a car get through its first MOT let alone take part in a retarded test 20+ years later.
Top gear was more of a comedy show that featured cars than a real car show. They often altered cars for 'comic' affect thereby helping to destroy a whole industry for a few cheap laughs.
Interesting video. The only experience I had of them was when myself and three friends hired one for a weekend in 1979, to attend a mutual friend’s wedding, about 30 miles away. I had the chore of picking it up from Kennings in Derby, the day before the wedding. I had a ticket to see a band in Leicester that evening, so used it for the trip. The journey there and back, took me on the M1, where I found it cruised very well at 90 mph. The trip to and from the wedding venue the next day, with four of us on board went well too.
I love these cars when I first started work in the late 1970s the works manager drove a princess it was mint green colour with a dark brown vinyl roof if a remember correctly. I just thought it looked very futuristic. Asome cars despite the issues...
What a load of bollocks. I had the Wolseley version and it was one of the finest cars that I ever had. I had mine for fourteen years until my mate bought it and his son drives it now. Mine never, ever let me down ( I had it serviced on time every time ) . Such a shame that the BL bashers have once again done another hatchet job !
Someone from my camp, thank you Col Rhodes, like you my experiences were good.. like any car they needed to be serviced and looked after.. regularly.. thank you for an island of sense in a sea of shite
@@philiphutchinson4210 Take a look and read these comments, they are 10 to 1 in favour of the Princess, maybe it's the video that's a 'sea of shite'.
I had a Princess 11, (in Vermillion), for several years and it was the most comfortable car to ride in I've ever driven. We regularly travelled to Cornwall and back, 440 miles each way and no discomfort. You could open and read the Daily Telegraph while sitting Inn the back seat. A much maligned car which in its Princess 11 form was nowhere near as bad as is made out.
My father bought one of these brand new an Austin 1800 in citrus yellow with a black vinyl roof, it was nicked named the “wedgie” and turned heads wherever we went at the time it’s shape was revolutionary! So easy to look back and slag them off, and maybe rightly so as we enjoy cars of today’s technology, but back then, boy it was a futuristic looking machine!🙂
I must have been one of the few that loved the, flawed or not
And me, I had one and it never let me down, I liked the room it had.
I'm the same...my Dad had one, and it ended up being the car I learnt to drive in, and I absolutely loved it.
I had an 11 year old 1800 version in the late 1980s, it was an excellent, comfortable and reliable car and for its size fuel consumption was low.
I loved them too - had the reliability been better, and a hatchback offered earlier, it could have been a great success. I loved the later Ambassador more though (but mainly because I learnt to drive in my Dad’s)
Same here, other than the dumpy rear end on the Princess I thought it was a nice car, as for the lack of power issue, a 3.5L V8 would have fixed that.
While the used the E6 engine they didn't use the E4 instead using the 1.8 B series engine until being replaced by 2 versions of the new O series engine
Another weird BL decision. Why not use the more modern 1750 cc E-series engine. That would also have given the option of a 5 speed gearbox. And why not offer the 2600 six cylinder version of the E-series used in Australia as well as a range topping model.
I had one. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I had earlier also owned a Wolseley Six, which was even more fun, because it drove like a much bigger Mini.
The Wolseley 6 was a car I wanted to own but never got the chance.
@@GingerGeorge-iy2ui
If more people were like you and me, we might still have an indiginous car industry.
For the future we don't even make our own batteries..
I like the styling theme of the Princess. But then again, I also love the 1962 Plymouth. Probably a treatable condition, but since it has no harmful side effects besides temporarily causing mildly blurred vision in OTHER people, I'll continue to indulge this, my very own, idiosyncrasy.
Britain produced so many interesting automotive ideas in the 60s and 70s. Had all the well-known detrimental circumstances not been a factor, that nation's industrial and political place in the world might be quite a different one today. Many of those automotive ideas deserved a better fate than they got.
As a kid my dad had a blue Princess with black vinyl roof and I loved it. Super comfy and loads of room. Cherished memories.
Sir, Thank you for an interesting video.
1 - Suspension: the BL Hydragas suspension was timed to appear at the expiry of Citroën patents. It gave an improvement over the already V good Hydrolastic. The latter being at its best in the BL1800 and its worst in a brief period of hydrolastic Minis.
2 - Industrial relations: the biggest culprit was "Red Robbo" who had voiced his intentions to ruin the company, and the Show-Of-Hands voting method in which union activists surrounded the speakers' platforms. The second biggest culprit being management.
3 - The cars: I had an 1800 Princess and a 2000 Princess. I was perfectly happy with both, and I dispute the opinion that the 1800 was under-powered. It wasn't sold as "High Performance", but it had a perfectly adequate performance with decent low-speed acceleration due to the high-torque characteristics of the series-B 1800 engine.
While this may not have affected sales, the 2200 engine became seriously oily in mid life due to poor valve stem oil seals - say 60000 or 70000 miles.
I loved them. Had both the 1800 and 2200 versions! Sorry.
don't apologise, you were lucky, you could have had a Lancia !!!!
The 2.2 was quite a performance in manual form, Very comfortable on motorways
No need to apologize. Truth is that they were as good or better than every rival.
@@davidormes8516 Like driving in an armchair.
I'm not particularly a fan of the cars but my father had 2 princesses one was a 2200 hp automatic and the other was an 1800 l he also had a 1.7 l ambassador in hearing aid beige and never had a bit of trouble with any of them,the 2200 was a lovely smooth driving car
2200 hl
I had the pleasure of owning two 2.2 Princesses .Two of the best and most comfortable cars I ever drove. Reliability was never a problem and unlike the Fords of that era they never suffered from corrosion problems.
@10:41 Now that is an excellent example of precision engineering, craftsmanship and quality control.
Great video as usual just a couple of teeny little mistakes remain though, sorry !
The first car to use hydrolastic suspension was the Morris 1100 as shown in the clip. (Morris has flat front grille bars Austin have wavy )
Austin version of 1100 didnt launch with the Morris they came much later.
Hydrogas was never fitted to 1100/1300 range there was an overlap hydrolastic was used right till the last 1100 estate in 1975 . When the allegro estate was launched .
Hydrogas was used right from the start in allegros. And ended in the MGf
Cheers Mitch
So sad. I'm personally a big fan of Hydragas, having had three Allegros after my dad had an Allegro Equippe as a company car. The Princess was the epitome of, 'What might have been'. I must admit I thought when you were referring to the 'bumpy ride' in the title, I didn't twig immediately that you mean metaphorically, because that's the one thing it didn't have in practical reality!
My uncle had one when I was a kid. The appearance was so unique and a bit otherworldly. I remember it vividly, sitting there in the sun with its large headlamps.
Hello I have owned a Leyland princess in the 1980s, 1800 model with four round headlights and really I can only say yes to one problem, that was the suspension to renew here in Germany was excellent but the car itself I had no problems at all.
So keep your thoughts and dislikes to yourself.
Well said !
I had an 1800 and loved it. Only Citroen was anywhere near as comfortable. We had ours all over Europe, and it just soaked up the miles. I’d love to have one now with modern kit and air conditioning
One reason I heard the Princess as not offered as a hatchback, was that Leyland did not want to lose sales to taxi drivers. The car also had an above average fuel tank size of 16 gallons giving the four cylinder models a tremendous range.
A very good taxi it made too. You had to put a bag of sand in the boot to pass the stringent braking test, but it took four passengers in comfort.
My father had a 1975 2200 HL Princess and a 1980 2.0 HLS Princess 2, both were great cars. However the Ambassador was a superior car all around, my father had two of these with me learning to drive in his second one. They really weren't any worse than anything else at the time in my eyes.
The 1100 was badged as Morris here in Australia in the mid-1960s with the advertising slogan, "It floats on fluid".
There were Austin, Morris, Wolsely, Riley, MG and Vanden Plas 1100s.
@@ajivins1 In Britain, yes. but in Australia, only the Morris badge applied.
@@neilforbes416 In Spain I saw odd, long-booted versions. Austin Atlantic or America they were called.
@@ajivins1 Different markets, different models, different branding. It's that simple!
@@ajivins1
I thought I knew a lot about BMC stuff but never knew those long booted variants existed... I wonder if Malta still has any?!
It's very fashionable to knock BL stuff by people whom it have never driven the cars, often by people whom think that that Ford gear of the same era was cutting edge with regards technology, driveability, performance and quality.
. ..the inconvenient truth is somewhat different.....Kent engines from the 50's still being used for example😊
Richard Richard yep, the 1300 cross flow engine from mk1 escorts was still in use on the ford ka until it's facelift mid 2000s
@Richard Richard
British people as a whole seem to love to knock stuff from home (speaking as an En-ga-lander).
I never understood it myself. BL produced some great and distinctively average motors, much like other contemporary manufacturers of the time.
We knock everything close to home, I remember how unpleasantly scathing the press could be about damon Hill for example. I bet it stuck in their craw when he became world champion though 😊
@@Thecrazyvaclav I had a KA, they all had bubbling corrosion by the fuel intake, my cars engine just went by 91,000 miles. I had a Citroen AX that got to 150,000 miles in comparison. The KA was really unreliable. Expensive to keep on the road.
BL cars were innovative and ok compared to comparable Renaults; Peugeots; Fiats;Ford/Vauxhalls. etc. 1970s cars of all marques are poor compared to modern cars. BL struggled because the UK Govt. Just wouldnt back it in the Way the French or Italians backed there car makers. Its important to remember Italian and French car workers also went on strike in this period for the same reason ( high inflation).
@@martinhughes2549
My dad had a little Ka (early one) and it wasn't particularly unreliable but each MOT was a chore! And thinking on my mate at work had a later Ka which was fairly problematic.
Only known of a few examples of the AX owned by friends and their family members but they were brutally reliable little machines and the GTi model another mate owned was a total hoot, went like a little rocket and handled really well!
You got the nail on the head there, other governments made their home market stuff get its act together and backed them financially but our shower essentially left BL to fend for its self. It's scary though how many idiots will happily bleat 'BL ruined our car industry' which is utter cobblers.
This trend continued right up to the company's untimely demise in the 2000s. A dark time for the history of UK car production indeed.
Ford cars certainly were not cutting edge, stylish yes but the ones I had would be reliable in all weathers but you paid for that in rust, void bushes, camshafts, propshafts, spontaneous combustion by the Webber Carburettor setting the Air Filter on fire, front wishbones, steering rack, Exhaust rubbers, rear axle Differential noise and leaking petrol all spring to mind, I’m sure there was more but time and memory you know!. Should have gone for BL Princesses and Ambassadors by the sound of it!.
I loved mine so much that I bought another.
I remember my uncle had a Silver Jubilee special of the Princess and I always thought it was a striking looking car.
The problems with the Princess were probably more to do with the state of UK manufacturing at the time and union issues rather than the car itself.
I had one no prublems
Good history. Now subscribed. Just a correction. Michael Edwardes didn’t rise to be chairman, he was brought in directly (from ICI I believe). He wrote a book about his time at BL which is a very enjoyable read.
I had an Ambassador VDP. It was a lovely car to drive. The long drive up to our local library had speed bumps all along it, meant to keep cars to below 20mph. I could drive my Ambassador up there at 30mph and not feel the speed bumps at all.
I never drove a Princess but my mother had an Allegro 1500 for a while, and it was actually a rather fine car. Some of BLs oddities worked well once they’d been developed a bit.
The reputation of the Allegro was irreparably tarnished by the fiasco of the bizarre Quartic steering wheel, even though not every Allegro had one. I wonder what funny substance you have to smoke to make a steering wheel that is non-circular - and with corners.
@@Mortimer50145 - Mescaline would be my guess. Taken by eye-dropper rather than smoked. (Up the Dewsbrarian massive!)
I had my first driving lessons in an Allegro with a square steering wheel before switching to a mini. It wasn't a problem. In fact the driving instructor probably liked it because it was difficult to let the wheel run through your fingers.
@@Mortimer50145
Ask the makers of modern performance cars with flat bottomed wheels.
The 'square' wheel wasn't square, it was still largely circular and was considered an oddity and hardly a 'fiasco'.
like the Austin Maxi........an odd car that does everything remarkably well, i know because i restored one and at the moment its my daily as its so practical !
I had two, loved the 2200 engine.
I always wanted one of the bug sixrs, beautiful sounding engines!
Lest we forget = John Shuttleworth's 'Y-Reg' song about his Y-reg Austin Ambassador.
It just happened to be that year.
Poor Rhiannon
But... Why, Reg?!
The Wolseley 18-22 / Princess had a Transverse straight six engine, not an in line. Had the same lump in my Wolseley Six.
Still an inline engine, not a V6 or flat 6. Inline doesn't mean front to rear mounting, it means the cylinders are in a line www.britannica.com/technology/in-line-engine
Nope. Inline usually meant rear wheel drive forward facing. Otherwise is was transverse!
@@colrhodes377 encyclopedia Britannica, Wikipedia and virtually every website a Google search brings up disagree with you🙂. for cars, front to back is longitudinal, side to side is transverse. Aviation engines are different.
Inline refers to the cylinders being in a line, not a v , flat (boxer or otherwise) or even an h (BRM, why did you try it?). Not sure where this leaves the deltic
@@paulqueripel3493 My original comment clearly stated "Transverse straight six engine," which is correct. That you choose to find fault in that statement is your problem. The distinction between transverse and in-line in my comment is obvious to all who care to comprehend what they read.
Edit to add: The Deltic is an opposed piston, triple crankshaft, two stroke diesel. Other engine layouts and types are available.
@@sarkybugger5009 and I was commenting that inline and straight mean the same, as opposed to longitudinal/transverse. It refers to the type of engine, not it's orientation.
crazy. the striking workers were formerly some of the most passionate car enthusiasts. price work and "those lower class people" attitude of upper management really crapped all over the uk car industry. there was no chance for BL to implement Kaizen. ie continuous improvement. then there was insane duplication. rover straight 6 and jaguar straight 6. then there was the management infighting...
Rover straight six? Not since 1967.
@@paulsutton5896 The Rover SD1 had a 2.3 and 2.6 straight 6 as well as the V8
@@paulsutton5896
Yes. I had forgotten. Though in truth I think it was initially suposed to be the Triumph version.
I bet these are now extemely rare, even compared with the V8.
The union garbage was the whole problem, of course the management hated them the shirkers screwed the company at every turn and the management made some great cars like teh 2200 despite the feckless greedy bastards.
@@garethonthetube The 2300 and 2600 were Triumph-derived units; on occasions these engines only lasted about six weeks in Met Police area cars around London.
I had an "R" reg 2200 HLS with a manual gearbox. Certainly it had a few problems (all cars did then) but everything was easily repaired due to accessibility and the rare need to buy spares, let alone go to a mechanic! Fast, comfy (yes I have had Citroens and loved them) , good on fuel but it really needed a 5th gear and a hatchback would have been nice.
One of the better cars that I have owned - for it's time.
Made me smile at 2.30 when you say hydro gas was later implemented on a variety of BL products, and the cars flashing up in rapid succession included a series three Landy in trap 9.
Cart springs only for that old girl!
i noticed that .......the only car in that pic that had Hydrogas was the Allegro !
I never EVER thought I'd miss thatchers Britain 😄
England died after her, the best PM since Churchill.
@@johnedfwards9823 She was a MONSTER, she surrounded herself with pedophiles.
I bought a brand new Princess 1800 HL in November 1975 (aged 23), with a loan from work. Reynard (metallic copper) with a black vinyl roof - all the rage though I had to fit my own radio !! A superb car, I ran it for seven years with very few problems. VERY spacious, good engine (B series), a doddle to work on / service but heavy to steer due to wide tyres and no power steering - I was a lot stronger then !!. A futuristic design back then, it turned heads. It NEVER let me down / left me stranded, and my biggest cost repair was a new rear screen when the heating elements failed - (before windscreen insurance). Oh, road holding - my mate (who had a Cortina) remarked the Princess stuck to the road "like shit on a blanket" - nuff said.
Why, oh why do British Leyland always get slated ?. Fords & Vauxhalls back then were NOT better in any way. The guy narrating this doesn't know his arse from his elbow !!!
Later I had a Montego 1.6 - a decent car. The two Audis I had later still whilst nice to drive cost a fortune in repairs. Vorsprung durch technic my arse.
In my garage I have a 1973 Rover P5B V8 - bought her in 1982 and never misses a beat. Worth a LOT more now than the £800 I paid. I wish I could have kept my Princess !!
Fords ? As my dad used to say are like arseholes - everybody has one.
Best car I ever had, 1989 Peugeot 405 Diesel (non turbo) - Spacious, comfortable and 54 mpg.
Congrats on the P5B... a car I'll never have now as I simply can't afford one. Doesn't make the desire any less though! Gorgeous cars.
As for the Princess (loved that copper colour which is incidentally back in fashion these days) I always liked them though we ended up having an Ambassador 1.7HL instead. Ridiculously comfy, quiet and roomy, went pretty well and echoing what you said about the handling I remember my older brother loved driving it as he said for a big car you could really hustle it through the twisty stuff... and that was coming from someone who favoured sporting motorcycles!
BL stuff, better than those with little to no experience of said cars would have you believe.
Interesting ! The expression btw is `sticks like shit to a blanket', so descriptive if you've ever had pet animals.
The 1100/1300 range never had hydragas it was the earlier hydralastic. The Princess was an underrated car and was given no chance as the press always had it in for anything BLMC made.
agree having owned a citreon DS I was drawn to the model .I think proably the best car I was unable to own!
I remember thinking the Princess looked "futuristic" back in the day- 45 years ago. Saw a couple of them in New Zealand when we lived there in the late 70s, but I don't think they were ever imported into Australia.
We had our own Leyland diaster- the P76. It was voted "Car of the Year" by a major auto magazine, but it was quickly dubbed the "P38", as it was only ever half the car it was supposed to be. Shite build quality wasn't restricted to Britain, as Leylands made here weren't much chop, either.
When I was a kid in the 90s, a mate had a P76 which he loved dearly. He used to call it "the B52" because it was so huge he reckoned it had a capacity bigger than the American bomber of that name. I also knew a couple of blokes with old Valiant Chargers, one claimed (when it was running unusually well) that it was purring along on all 7 cylinders, the other ironically dubbed his "Chukie the Chick Magnet"... but those are different stories. As someone who is not old enough to remember a time when they made huge and unreliable beasts like those, I can never work out why Australian car makers went for massive size over build quality or comfortable features.
@@Dave_Sisson cars the size of Falcons and Kingswoods were considered "compacts" by American standards - at least until 1973. Hardly massive, though...
So sorry for you that you had to live with NZers.
The same marketing analogy that describes why Ford’s Edsel failed in the USA in the ‘50’s is true of Leyland’s P76 failure in Australia in the ‘70’s: “It’s aim was right, but the target moved.” Market research determined the need for a mid-priced car brand between Ford and Mercury in the ‘50’s, but after a stock market crash and contraction of the economy, the intended market segment retreated to Ford, which also offered much better styling. Leyland developed the P76 to be a family-hauler with a heavy suspension designed for Australia, and their market research determined that such a car would sell. But the 1973 oil crisis sent that intended market segment running for the Japanese car dealerships in search of decent fuel economy. The Edsel and the P76 both prove that it’s always a gamble to launch a new car, even if the car company has done its homework.
I love them very smooth ride , my uncle had them as funeral cars and they never failed to earn they're keep and nothing but very smooth ,
Hydroelastic? That's a new one on me! Seriously though, these cars were nowhere near as bad as this film makes out. I found that my company supplied Princess could travel comfortably along a bumpy road at far higher speeds than my colleagues conventionally suspended cars from Ford, Vauxhall or BMW.
My 1978 Princess 1700 was a very, very, comfortable car and the ride was excellent.
I followed it with a 1985 Ambassador - the hatch-back version of the Princess - but
its seats were firmer and less comfortable.
ok im going to buck the trend, but i had a princess 2 for a couple of years back in the early 80's and loved it ! went on a tour of scotland in it, it wasnt fast, but it was a comfortable motorway cruiser. build quality was crap, but most cars were in those days ! it had a rust hole in the back door at 6 years old, but then the mark 1 escort and mark 5 cortina i had around that time were rust buckets to ! metalic blue paint, black velour seats, and tinted windows !......... whats not to love ! :)
In 1977 my Brother bought a three bed semi for £7500, like the one in the film,so the car now cost 20 grand ish, his house now costs 230 grand ish
My Dad had a company Princess. Never let him down and was incredibly roomy and smooth riding.
They also had monstrous AP 4 piston calipers that stopped them well.
I had a Princess 2, 2.0 HL, 1980 model in Snapdragon (bright yellow). It was a cracking car. I had it for a few years and sold it to a friend who later passed it on to his son. The most underrated car I've owned in 52 years of driving, it drove well and never let me down, or either of the two subsequent owners. It was large, comfortable, economical, smooth and quiet and I was doing 20,000+ miles a year in it with 100% reliability. It was a lot less trouble than the crappy Fords that a lot of my friends drove. The early models may have had their issues but the Mk 2 suffered from that reputation, totally without justification in my experience. A brilliant car.
I had an Ambassador Vanden Plas and it was a lovely car to drive. With its smooth performance, luxury interior and hydragas suspension, it truly rivaled a Rolls Royce, except for its unreliability and constant need of repair and new parts. I was driving it around the north circular one night at the legal limit of 70, or so I thought until I glanced at the speedo and saw I was doing almost 110. It could have been a world beater if only BL had properly sorted it before release, but alas it was a disaster on wheels. I'm glad you pointed out the appallingly bad BL management as the cause of industrial action instead of blaming the downtrodden workers, as most commentators do.
Well said.
110😂, had know idea there 100% downhill (vertical) sections on the north circular….love all the rose tinted comments about the 18/22 series. BL was rotten from top to bottom, in my near 50 years driving I owned 2 BMC/Leyland/Rover products a Metro Turbo and an XJ6. Both were epically and really mean epically unreliable, I had things break that Ive never experienced on any other car, gear teeth breaking in the diff, engine mounts so dreadfully designed they ripped in half, 4 replacement gearbox’s between them, burning oil 2 litres week for the jag, at 4 years rust, rust and even more rust. Truly appalling junk, some innovative designs, managed and built by brain dead idiots. Rover deserved to die and it did, the paying public did exactly what you would expect, voted with there feet and bought better.
@@Steve-rv1ql I also had a 1951 Morris Minor 803cc OHV, which I bought for £25 from my hairdresser around 1970. It was solid, no rust and very reliable. I guess they went downhill after that. The Ambassador was a beautiful car to drive but riddled with design and mechanical faults. While lying under it trying to fit a new exhaust, God sent 2 Mormon missionaries to save my soul, so they said. I suggested they go back to America where there were many more souls that needed saving.
When I was very young my dad who worked for BL brought a pre production model home for us to try for the day (black with gold stripes... JPS!) It was a head turner 😁🖕
If that had quad lights then that must have looked a cool motor! Well, cool anyway but I preferred the quad lights to the one piece lamps!
I had one of these. It was a great car very great space very large boot and so easy to drive and a great ride.
great joke Johnny
I detested them at the time. I would absolutely love one now though. I have no idea why, but there's something... Something cars don't have any more.
My dad owned a 1978 Brooklans green Princess 2 which had the hatchback conversation, I remember the boot was huge! There was storage under the rear seats which could also fold down to make the boot even bigger. He had that car for years and loved it! Unfortunately the rust got the better of it.
Very cool car!
that things a relic now .....wish i had it or found it in a lockup !
The Seventies, for many reasons, is best forgotten. The British auto industry was committing slo-mo suicide throughout this decade.
The seventies must be learned from. Government interference RUINED the United Kingdom, including its auto industry. It was a nightmare. I got out before I was forced to join the workers party (Trade Union) and did very well in the USA.
@thaichubby101 Yes
My 1972 Hillman Avenger was built before the worst of the self-inflicted damage from the unions. It's a car of simplicity, super handling, and boringly reliable. Not everything from the 1970s was dreadful. The rust however was a huge problem on all cars of the era, not just British ones.
Now of course we have the self-inflicted damage of Brexit, if the UK car industry survives that it will be a miracle.
@thaichubby101 Yes, just not the UK industry.
@@video99couk What UK car industry? There isn't one! Part of post Brexit fun will be rebuilding the UK's decimated industries pretty much from scratch. We did it after the last war and we'll do it again after this one. A GOLDEN opportunity, unless you are work-shy.
I had a ambassador 2.0 Vanden plas, was very roomy , but Austin rover didn’t upgrade the gear box and had the princesses 4 speed box and was crying out for a for a 5th gear, I had a maxi before having 5 gears. The auto choke didn’t work and car always ran rich, but it all improves when I fitted a manual one . The back seat release location was brilliant tho. Wish I still have it . But I do own a very late princess 2.0 Hls tho abs in it’s day was very forward design but I totally agree that BL didn’t have a hatch version though, but like the Morris marina concept with different models within the range BL should had produced a hatch but even so it still had a big boot although the documentary said it wasn’t. Perhaps Bl producing the maxi and started the rover SD1 didn’t wanted affect the sales of those cars . Regards mark
BMC should have built the stunning Pininfarina design concept for the Landcrab. Instead they kept building the 1800 until the replacement was launched. I still think that this was an underrated, stunning car, which I first saw in the Mann Egerton showroom in North Finchley in the summer of '75, reason being my father had an Austin 3 Litre that was unreliable and replaced it with a 1975 Marina in 1977, the dullest car he ever owned. As for the Allegro… love it, the one we had was very reliable. There you go.
One of the most interesting and concise reviews I've seen. Excellent.
The Glassback looks cool, i would buy one.
I had one. I loved it.
Recalling all of these labels such as Vanden Plas, Ghia and so on truly brings back the joy of being a young boy car spotter in the 1970s, thanks again for the uploads *
Used to work on them ,they weren’t that bad 🤔
Yeah, mine was OK, comfortable, vague gearbox and heavy to drive, but quiet at 80mph, never gave me any serious issues in a couple of years of ownership and only cost me £200 at the time.
Francis that is why they are bad. Because you worked on one. 🤣😅🤣👍
@@pod9538 More than one mate ,and all variants lol 👍
Your docs are very well researched and executed, ofter providing background information that is new to people who actually were there.
Hardly if he thinks the ride was lumpy.
It's quite heartening to read real world comments in a positive vein in the comments.
Never had a Princess but my mum did have an Ambassador 1.7HL. It was a great motor and it was supremely comfortable ride wise and had limo like front and rear leg room.
Only had one issue which was a sphere seal failure... because some plum at a private garage measured the suspension height from the top of the wheel to the arch instead of from the centre of the wheel when it had a major service. Seeing as the measurement was never going to be near the manual value you would have thought he wouldn't have sent the poor bloody thing out of the doors looking like a Baja bug.
Spent many a happy trip to Wales in that car, the amount of kit it could swallow was astonishing!
My uncle had a Princess 1800 in Belgium and I liked the car. It drove nicely and was comfortably to sit in, I did drive the car on a number of occasions. The only problem that arose was the clutch assembly which was poorly installed and was missing a piece. That however was the only problem ever with the Princess.
Forgot to mentioned that I had two Allegro and my brother a Marina, good cars and not much problems. The Marina was killed of by rust, it was a 1800 but after he killed the engine was replaced by a 1300 and he still drive the car two years. My two Allegro where killed in accidents, both times hid by stupid drivers.
I used to work in Rover garage in early 80s and remember escorting a young lady from accounts to pay in the days takings in a Princess 2200. I thought it was a lovely, smooth luxurious car with no problems. At the time I wanted one myself. I’ve always owned Austin, Morris, Rover, MG cars over the years. I’ve never thought they were bad cars.
My dad had one. There was so much room in the back, they really were cavernous
Thanks Ruairidh! Fascinating history. Where was your footage taken? It looks like some sort of museum.
Looks like a mix of the British Motor Heritage Museum at Gaydon, and the NEC Classic Car Show.
Car was by far not as bad as it´s reputation. Basically a delight to work on it. Accessability in the engine bay is unique!!! And my 2200 HLS runs without bad attitudes...
I don't reckon I'd be to delighted to have to work on one of those every morning before work...??😂
I bought an Ambassador from a work colleague 2.0 Ltr HLS, it was superb had everything you could wish for, very comfortable velour seats like arm chairs, so much room you could swing that metaphorical cat and a not unreasonable turn of speed for the time I loved it boot like a cave, my brother then took it over, didn’t look after it so I had it back, after doing very little work in it a neighbour wanted it ( I bought it for my wife and she was now driving something newer).My wife and children call it the spider car, as it had a resident spider that kept appearing, I still love that car.
Loved the Wedges - smooth, quiet, quick and good on juice too!
I had a 2000 HL
for a short time. I never really liked it, but it got me around!
What a beautiful car. Fast and comfortable too🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I still love the Princess
I had a 2.2 cc Austin Princess Automatic, great car .
Was it not the car that character Jim Hacker in the 'yes, minister' series was driven in? I'm not british so it was the first time I saw this car. I found it a bit strange that producers chose princess as minister's car. How plausible is that, what were government official's cars of the era?
The one where he's caught drunk driving, if memory serves. Probably quite accurate. I've half a mind there's footage of Mrs Thatcher getting out of the back of one at some point. The UK Government has to "Buy British" and, in the 70s, that meant the endlessly supported British Leyland.
@@smorris12 in many episodes he was even driven in one. Thou, not 100% sure of the badge (I assumed it was princess).
I always thought that the most British would be to sit all ministers in Jaguars...
@@altair1983 It was an early 80s show so it would be either a Princess or an Ambassador as the Wolsey and Austin had long gone.
They've had all sorts. Rover P4s were popular up to the 70s for being the most "classy". Jags have became most common from the XJ40 to now with Rover 800s common in the 90s.
He was chauffeured in a Princess (Ambassador?) but he owned a Ford Granada Mk2
My in-laws hired a Leyland Princess for our wedding in 1980 it got my wife to the church on time, and after the church service got us both to the reception,no problem.But apparently broke down going back to base.PHEW!!
An old guy next door to me growing up had the princess and upgraded the same car for years, i always remember them being quite high up at the back
Had a yellow princess behind me yesterday, seemed to be in new condition and looked in my rear view mirror a rather nice design.
My first car! I’ll concede that it was spacious and a comfortable ride… whenever it ran. Sadly, it didn’t do much of that.
Had I learned as much about car mechanics as I have now, almost 35 years later, I might have been able to keep it running. As it happened, however, I had to take it from repairman to repairman, which blew an early hole in my finances that would remain for many years after I was finally able to sell it.
The workmanship was indeed shoddy. The boot lid almost arced, for instance, leaving large gaps on the sides. The engine sometimes wouldn’t turn off, due to a bad connection in the hazard flasher switch. The suspension did indeed leak and eventually gave it quite a list.
Admittedly, owning such a car in Sweden added an extra layer of frustration (most garages advertising that they’d take ALL makes and models would turn out to be like ”oh yes, we take BOTH kinds, both Volvo AND Saab!” - I kid you not!), as did my utter inexperience at DIY repairs. Having said that, though, the car’s faults were too obvious to hide.
Of course it should have been a hatchback. Of course there should have been an estate version. Of course the management at BL/MC was incompetent. Of course the workforce should have realised that they were digging their own graves. Of course quality control should have been in place. And of course the car would have deserved a fifth gear. It’s such a pity that it never stood a chance.
My mini had a bumping noise ,seemed to drift on the road especially going around corners , I lived in Leeds but worked at a shoe factory in Leicestershire GHL698L mini 1000 damask red you had pay extra for radial and a extra wing mirror ,the dealer sorted it in Hinckley the bolts apparently securing the body to the sub frame were missing ,a bit like Fred flint stone, my 1st company car was one of these ,vinyl ruled supreme ,awful times ,still got the rationing vouchers following oil crisis,!
It was spectacular!
My dad bought austin princess Ref225R in sandglow 1.8hl in 1980 and owened it till 1986 he still says to this day it was one of the best cars he has owened that car took me my brother sister parents a Thompson tline caravan all the luggage all over the UK had so.e great holidays and it never missed a beat he always said it was way way ahead of its time like most bl cars they had a bad reputation he might of been lucky but it left me with some great memories. He sold it to a family friend who ran it another four years my dad bought a mk2cavilier on b reg it was a nice car but Diddent have the charm of the princess.
I owned a Prinny 2.2 hls - early 80s , sooooo comfy and nippy too , the seats were almost as good as my v70 now
I remember my dad buying the Ital, the restyled Marina... The Marina wasn't a bad car... Dad had one as his works car (an estate with a 1.7 Lt engine) and hammered up and down the motorway with flanges in the back for various construction site jobs.
But he got rid of the Ital soon after owning it as, one day, he opened the bonnet to find rust streaks running down from the seams... Ah, the ‘British’ motor car industry.
I remember delivering newspapers as a kid to a home that had one of these on the drive. Even in the early 90s it looked weird and very old fashioned, more so than other 70s cars.
When I was a young man I had 2 Princess cars a 2.2 litre and then later a 2 litre. The 2.2 litre car was more luxurious than the later 2 litre version.
I only sold the 2 litre car because one of my workmates pestered me until I sold it him. In my view they were comfortable cars and early Cortina’s weren’t in the same league in my experience.
The footage you used of the Austin 1100 was filmed in New Zealand. If you pause it at 2.00 you can see the New Zealand plate which places it around the late 1960s / 1970. It was likely a promotional video to flog off British cars when New Zealand was moving away to buying more Australian and Japanese cars.
Back in my boy racer days of the mid-eighties the Princess and the Allegro were "wouldn't be seen dead in" cars but a lot of the "boys" I hung around with ended up with them. They were ugly and hideously uncool but you could get a lot of ugly and uncool car for your money. I never had a Prinnie but I did buy an Allegro 1500 for £30 as an emergency get-me-home car after I blew up my umpteenth MK3 Cortina. Three years later I still had it having spent precisely £0 on maintenance and ended up swapping it for a motorbike worth £300. From the outside it was a horrible car but in every other way it was a wonderful little thing.
I had a 'T' Reg 1979 Princess 2000 HL. I really liked it! The most comfy car I have ever had to this day! I did a Trip to Plymouth from Kent and back in a day without being too tired! No M25 as it is now then! About 7 hours there and a bit more coming back. Stopping roughly every 2 hours. Only got about 33 MPG out of it on a run though.
There's a small mistake at around 4 minutes. The car was launched with the 1.8 litre B-series engine; only the 2200 was an E-series variant. The 1.8 B-series was replaced by the 1.7 litre E-series later on.
A word from a Frenchman :
- At the launch of the car, I found the shape very interesting and appealing; this was the sort of modern and original products Leyland should do at the time;
- I do not agree with the hatchback problem : Ford, Opel or Volvo had none and did well in the upper range
- In France, the Princess suffered fierce competition from well established Peugeot 504, Citroën CX and even Renault 20. Apart from reputation which deteriorated fast in France at that time (all english cars), I think that the car suffered most from lack of power (1800-2200) and consumption (2200). I remember well the road tests when it was launched : The 2200 should have had 10 miles more top speed (115 mph) and fuel injection. The car was actually praised for comfort and space. It sold in small numbers in France.
- Moreover, the top version (HLS) missed a leather upholstery extra and wood panels. Did Leyland not remember that the Vanden Plas Princess 1100-1300, Triumphs, Rover P6 sold well in France in the 60s, despite heavy prices (they were trendy models).
- As my first car in 1983, I tested one used Princess 2 2 litre (good impression), but prefered a more sporty Triumph Dolomite Sprint. Another story.
Leyland lacked ambition in the 70s and was obsessed only by cost reduction. It is clear that the permanent strikes caused lack of money in the company, which reduced development budgets.
Thanks for your comprehensive comment. Yes the 2.2 Six should have had more power and a 5th gear. Indeed all models would have benefitted from a 5th gear.
All that trouble to make an aerodynamic shape and then no overdrive gear for economic cruising.
You may enjoy `The Princess got a little friend' here on RUclips. A Princess 2.2 L Auto is started up after many years in storage; the engine sounds great.