The History of Vanden Plas
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Hello all! :D
Once a brand name endemic to the British motoring industry, the coachbuilder Vanden Plas was able to survive for decades beyond many of its rivals thanks to its long association with British Leyland, a partnership that changed its role from bespoke bodies to ultra-luxury interiors for regular saloon cars.
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References:
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As a teen I studied car design. I always liked the beautiful lines of British and Italian cars. Growing up in the US, we never saw, or even knew most of these cars even existed. I hope the Vanden Plas name will be brought back some day. Thank you.
Excellent presentation, thank you.
I grew up in rural Kent where my Dad owned our village's one & only petrol station and motor garage. VDP 1300s and 1500s were typically favoured by stoic, matronly types clad in tweedy twinsets who invariably demanded the full under-bonnet inspection and their tyre pressures checked on their weekly visit to buy 4 gallons of 4 star. "Don't forget the spare wheel young man!" would be uttered in stentorian tones and you might get a shilling tip if you were lucky.
In Japan they did have some sort of clone of the ADO16 Princess.
I’ve been trying to track the mergers and acquisitions of BMC and BL, as a historical record.
Who owns who, who owns which marques, who bought who, who owns which rights, etc.
There are so many name changes, joint ventures, ownership changes, subsidiary conversions, marque mergers… that after 6 years, my detailed spreadsheet looks like the sheet music for ‘The Flight of the Bumblebee’, compressed into one page!
Right, it's a very confusing history!
@@donaldstanfield8862
Confusing is putting it lightly…
Three automotive encyclopedias later, (including Beaulieu) I still have contradictions in their mergers!
@@tetchuma Can you imagine having been involved with the company, it must have been a traumatic existence!
I grew up in France in the '70s. After owning a succession of Minis, including the first model with an automatic gearbox (which failed often), my parents surprised me one day by picking me up in something they called an Austin Princess. It was British Racing Green, had four doors, and luxurious wood trays built into the back of the front seats. I think it was an Austin 1300. It might or might not been a Vanden Plas model.
The Ford Granada Ghia was our family car of choice, and the minis were our everyday city runabouts, so I was surprised that they picked something so much bigger than the Minis to fill that role.
Growing up as a car mad youth in the 70's it affected me deeply to witness the collapse of our uniquely British car maufacturing industry , this video was however fascinating even so .
Amazing how the British car and motorcycle industries managed to manage themselves into extinction.
I remember VP's. The austin 1100 and the Allagro were shit cars to start with. All VP did was make them more expensive.
shipbuilding too!
Very progressive!
Despite I never heard about Vanden Plas here in germany, this is a very interesting and well made documentary. Thank You for sharing!
Fascinating video. Really pleased to find out where the name of my Rover SD1 originated!
I’ve got a 1998 jaguar XJ8 Vanden Plas. I love this car because it is the top-of-the-line car for Jaguar. The Jaguar XJ6XJ8 from 68 until 2002 was one of the best looking four-door saloons ever made
Pretty much the first mishap I was involved with was in a friends 1300 Vanden Plas.
Thanks for a fascinating video.
Back in the 1990's I once had an 1985 B reg Austin Maestro Vanden Plas 1.6 auto. This was a really cool car and I used to love the walnut wood trim and that great blue/green LCD digital dash readout which was light years ahead of it's time ! - I also loved that talking computer on the left of the dash (UK right hand drive car) where it would say "Warning Fuel low!" or "Instantaneous fuel consumption" the only other model that had the same digital dash was the MG 1600 and some very early 2.0 EFi models before they changed the whole dash layout to the crappy Montego dash where the talking computer and LCD digital dash was discontinued sadly.
Turns out I wasn't aware but I've always wanted to know about Vanden Plas
My exact reaction. Fantastic video.
Didn't know Amy of this so I found it interesting, as a child of the 70's I thought it only related to allegro and rovers !@
Same! Had no idea it originally was a European company although I guess the clue was in the name.
I had a 1982 Ambassador VDP 2.0, previously owned by a farmer who had looked after it and also detuned it with a single SU, Loved that car, it was economical on a run, and very very comfortable, always regretted getting rid of it.
In 1985 I had a 1973 Daimler Double Six VDP with only 21000 miles on the clock & in 2001 bought a 1995 Double Six VDP that had covered just 20,000 miles. Wonderful, wonderful Cars. Although 8mpg for the '73 & 10mpg for the '95 :)
I remember the Vanden Plas Jaguars from the 80's and 90's. The vast majority of Jaguar owners don't know a dam thing about cars, especially their own. Thank you.
The "S" at the end of Vanden Plas IS pronounced
Tru dat.
You are correct. After many years of pronouncing it as 'plah', I read about the family who started the coach building firm and they pronounced their own name as 'plas'. That's good enough for me.
It categorically is NOT, My Father spent 25 years at Vanden Plas (Pronounced PLA) working his way up from the shop floor to end his time there as Manager of Design and Engineering Development (if you doubt this check my surname against Vanden Plas history and you will find my father) The name is of Dutch origin and as such would have be pronounced PLAS however the company originated in Belgium and the name was corrupted to PLA
@@nigelwest3430 No wonder there's confusion! Thank you for the authoritative information. I would say people could either correctly pronounce it as in the original Dutch, or correctly pronounce it as it was corrupted/adapted in Belgium and the UK (perhaps according to the spelling). Now that the trademark is owned by Nanjing Automobile, we can probably expect further changes in pronunciation!
@@thromboid I would say it should be pronounced as the company themselves pronounced it.
As a Dutchman, I always concidered the name Van den Plas a bit weird for a luxury car, because while it means 'From the lake' (or pond) it can also 'From the pee' (as in urination). Wonder if that's why the mark is pretty mutch unknown in The Netherlands...
Most of Leyland's products at the time came from the other bathroom area.
I do wonder if it was ever spelt differently, or changed for the British market
@@gwyneddboom2579 Apart from the space between Van and Den, I don't think so. Van den Plas is a pretty normal Dutch (or Flemish) name. Just not something that sounds luxurious...
@@merlijnwiersma7801 I think so too (and yes, I know that, ik ben ook Nederlands)
@@gwyneddboom2579 Ah! De naam zette me op het verkeerde been. De inhoud van je RUclips kanaal is echter onmiskenbaar Nederlands! Leuk!
Quality inspo, right here! And great playing, as usual!
I remember as a child assuming it was Vanden Plas,then as an adult believed it was a Vanden Plah ,and now realising that as a Dutch derived name it must be Vanden Plas!.This has reminded me I actually had one for about 2 years!I had originally got a Montego Turbo as a company car but it was so dire that we had it back to Austin Rover after 6 months as it was positively dangerous.It wasnt just the turbo engine there were real issues with the car in that if you went round a left hand bend the car would slew outwards(it was fine on a right hand bend).Anyway I got a Montego estate EFI Vanden Plasas a replacement .Everyone laughed at such an old man car but it was actually quicker than the turbo(in that you actually felt safe driving it),it was very comfortable and could carry stacks of stuff .I remember moving house with it ,using it to move everything rather than hire a van (I must admit I didnt have that much).The only thing was,apart from some VP badges on the steering wheel and wheels I cant think of anything that was that much different to the more basic models !
Anyway ,in regard to the name ,the sales department referred to it as a Vanden Plah ,and the service department as Vanden Plas!
If there is a youtube video on the Monetgo turbo I will give a full list of all the problems that had with the car ,the oddest being that the headlights would not light up until 20 minutes after you had turned them on .this made night driving a bit of an issue.
A superior video as usual, many thanks.
I am Dutch and have known Vanden Plas since I was 7 years old when my late father bought an old Rolls Royce Vanden Plas in 1972
Interesting and informative.
For the record, I understand that the 's' at the end of Vanden Plas is pronounced (to match the first syllable of 'plasma') due to the Flemish rather than French linguistic roots.
Of course, I may be wrong...
Pete Denton - You're not wrong.
The Vanden Plas records and archive reside at the Beaulieu Motor Museum where they can be accessed for study and research. The files also contain information about a great many individual cars, including mine, a 1932 Lagonda Continental with Vanden Plas drophead coupé body which was commissioned by English bandleader Ray Noble.
Very interesting. Thank you for taking the time to make this video. My father had a 4 litre R
Very interesting, thanks for the video. I had always wondered why the name Vanden Plas was associated with British luxury coach built/trimmed cars. Now I know.
I had a metro vanden Plas briefly, lovely little car. I have always wanted a allegro vanden Plas. I will own one one day!
You'd better hurry, they're getting expensive!
Loved This Ty the Memory of My Vanden Plas Princess I had for many years Ty
Just found this fantastic channel. What a jem!!
An interesting video history of Vanden Plas.I once owned a Vanden plas princess 1300 a lovely little car,beautyfully finished including a chrome rocker cover! Also a 1987 Vanden plas maestro,with leather interior and real burr wanut veneered doorcaps.Real luxury in my mind..
I had an Austin Metro (think it was a 1983 model) in the UK, I put a Vanden Plas interior in it which I salvaged from my local breakers yard. it was an awful car with a lovely set of seats
I lived in Kingsbury as a lad. My mum worked at the factory during the war. Memories.
I have watched a great many of your videos and, as expected, received a quality, thoroughly and accurately produced video. I always look forward to your work as they impart information with no frills or 'over the top theatrics or inducements'. Please accept my most sincere thanks for your work and accuracy in educating me.
If you ignore all the errors made, that is.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Im watch because this gentleman ' does his homework ' and provids an illustrative history and outline of the subject matter. If you are unsatisfied with the presentational material, you should contact the uploader not their subscribers.
@@paulsmith6616 I disagree with your use of the word accurate which obviously means something different in your dictionary. AND yes I do post direct corrections where sources show that an error has been made. No replies for the presenter have ever been received.
Examples of his poor homework included in last week's presentation on TEE. Our presenter said that the TEE VT.115 went into service with DSB after they finished with TEE. This is not true. DSB order their own version of the VT.115 which had significant different to the TEE model. He also said that the TEE service to Copenhagen required to be fitted with 25kV AC electric supply. However, a cursory bit of research shows that DSB didn't start to use 25kV AC until long after the TEE service stopped running (about 6 years after IIRC). The line along which the TEE service ran still isn't electrified beyond Ødense when coming from Copenhagen and won't be until around the end of this decade. Hardly accurate.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 if you know so much, I'd love to see your videos on these subjects that will obviously have no errors at all.
@@johnennis4586 if only I had the time.
I believe it's pronounced Plaz not Plah, because it's a Dutch name.
The correct way might not have been the way most pronounced it at the time! I was at Browns Lane when the limo assembly was moved there - in fact the very building (corrugated shed really - we were in a corner office working on an electrical test system for Jag in general) . And anyone who said "Plass" rather than "Pla" got the raised eyebrow treatment.
@@Rust_in_Time It's "Hear! Hear!" of course
@@GaryJohnWalker1 😲
The Belgians though would have pronounced it Plah, wouldn't they?
@@williamgranger5538 Walloons - the southern French speaking Belgians might. But Vanden Plas is a Flemish name. Similar to Dutch, and would pronounce it with a rather sharp S, even more emphasised than old Ruaridh in this video. In any case it became a British company, and especially in the car industry, not too many airs or graces are given so Plas as in Plass would be most likely.
All the VDP knowledge one could ever need! Brilliant. Thanks for posting. ;-)
Thanks Ruairidh, another fascinating history. So, does JLR own the name now - with worldwide rights?
No, the worldwide rights to the VP marque are now held by Nanjing Automobile as part of the properties it hoovered up after the collapse of MG-Rover (along with MG, Austin, Morris, Wolseley, Princess and Sterling).
When Jaguar Cars was split off from BL and privatised in 1984 the rights to VP were split - Jaguar had rights to the name in North America (because of its use as a substitute for Daimler in that market) and BL retained it for the rest of the world. BL's rights transferred through its existence as the Rover Group and MG-Rover and were then bought by Nanjing. Jaguar retained its own rights to the name, which only applied to North America. Which are now owned by JLR/Tata. So Nanjing owns the rights to the Vanden Plas name (and both the original intertwined 'VP' logo and the 'Princess' badge with a crown) worldwide *except* for in North America, where JLR has the use of the name but not the logos.
@@jozg44 So it'll never see the light of day again then! Thanks for the info.
@@jozg44 the Riley name, however, was retained by BMW, after their abortive attempt at an uprated Rover 75.
Vanden PlaS .....you pronounce thé S ,
I love your videos so much. Keep up the great work!
I'm honestly kinda surprised that custom car bodies aren't more common.
The history of Fleetwood Body Company has some similarities to that of Vanden Plas. It was founded as Fleetwood Coach Works in Penwortham, England, by Henry Fleetwood, but somehow moved shop to Pennsylvania in the ensuing decades. By the 1920s, Fleetwood was making bodies to fit automotive chassis of various makes, but when GM-owned Fisher Body took it over in 1925, its bodies were used exclusively on Cadillacs. By 1934, Cadillac was using the Fleetwood name on bodies that were built in parallel with their chassis on Cadillac assembly lines and well in to the 1980s, Cadillac maintained this fiction by putting "Body by Fleetwood" plaques on the door sills of some models and "Body by Fisher" on other, even when they shared the same assembly line. The Fleetwood name was dropped entirely at the end of the 1996 model year, but given that it was only a name by that time, it can be revived whenever GM sees fit.
Wonderful work. We had two VDP’s in the family: a 1967 Princess 4 Litre R in the US.I owned
Excellent well done.
I owned a rare manual Rover SD1 Vanden Plas V8. I loved that car!
Great video, thanks
I know the Vanden Plas building in Kingsbury, I delivered parcels there it’s now a office building.
And so it goes....
Driving in my Vanden Plas, listening to Van Der Graaf Generator
& Especially the VDGG songs:
slo moves, all over the place, spanner, white hammer, nutter & abandoned ship.
Interesting. We had a Princess 4 litre R when I was a kid.
A college friend of mine went to work for Rover design- he was told that the pronunciation is Vanden Plaz !
The beauty treament of standard car models presumably went down well in marketing circles. Ford did the same thing with Ghia.
The Jag 420 was the S-Type, what had been the Mk 10, the 420G was surely the the VDP Limo underneath. Jag's Mk 10 - 420G and the Daimler DS 420 should have used Turner's Daimler V8 4.5 not the XK engine with more torque and less weight for the bigger cars. The latter years were badge engineering for the most part (interior trim and seats and some got an extra carb). My dad had a Wolesley 16/60 from new which I did thousands of miles in the passenger seat. Two blokes at work in the 80s had an SD1 VDP and Allegro VDP. I had rides in them and long before that a trip in a Daimler DS 420. I bought a Rover 75 Connie just before they stopped making them.
When market research asked Allegro VdP owners which car they would buy next, 89% said 'we won't be buying another car!'
As a child in the seventies my memory of Allegros, Particularly the Vanden Plas model, is that they were all in the same ‘poo brown’ colour.
I still believe everything was poo brown in the 60s and 70s
@@MrJimheeren - I think you’re right Jim, the seventies was definitely the ‘brown’ decade.
Brilliant video 📹 👏
Now I know... Wondered what Vanden Plas was all about while attending last month's
"Terribly British" Car Show in Queanbeyan, New South Wales.
One nerdy question - but I’m sure a 123 Maybach was mentioned - I thought maybach was mothballed into the 2000s when we got the standalone cars? Also I always saw the XJ6 as being a 126 rather than 123 competitor? I am usually wrong on such things so expect to be on this…
Definitely W126, not W123; however, there was no Maybach version of either. And yes, it's Vanden Plas, not Plah.
Fantastic video!
And here I thought Vanden Plas was just a metal band.
There was, at least in Belgium, also a Rover 600 Vanden Plas offered
The logical next step, is to cover the Riley & Wolseley marks now the you done the Vanden Plas.
Vanden Plas & the Alegro… now there’s an oxymoron for luxury.
I've owned 2 Allegro Vanden plas great cars
Vandenplassssss. Flemish name!! S is not silent!!
The Vanden Plas double six XJ6 sgould not be cofused with the Daimler double six, they were both separate models with the Vanden Plas being a very rare beast indeed.
I had a Vanden Plas Austin Allegro, it was like a Jaguar inside...
Ahh the Rover 200 series, my dad had a 213S as a company car
How well I remember the British Leyland Land Crab. The rear end always drifted down the road camber. Not a pretty sight.
I owned a white 1974 Vanden Plas 1300 from 1979 to 1980, a beautiful car with true limousine finish to it, but sadly it was still a Austin 1300 underneath and I had to replace the wing and two sills due to rust in a 5 or 6 year old car. I have no high regards for old car's of the past, modern cars are definitely improving.
You mised out the METRO VP?
excellent video
It would be interesting to compare the similarities of the collapse of social/political systems to this decline of a manufacturing industry.
It would be interesting to know where the rights to the Vanden Plas name now lie; with Tata, SAIC or maybe with Ford?
The Vanden Plas name (for outside North America) and many other Leyland names were purchased by Nanjing Automobile.
@@sandgrownun66 Nanjing were in turn purchased by SIAC. I was just not sure which nameplates were purchased by Nanjing, MG, obviously, but they did not get the rights to Rover for example which remind with Jaguar Land Rover and is now owned by Tata. Triumph and Riley were retained by BMW together with Mini.
Ah those days of strikes, the Aleggro Van Den Plas was the working mans Rolls Royce, TBF they did have an appeal.
Sad, but thanks for sharing 👍
No mention of the 4L RR engine?
Me: Mum can we get Rolls Royce
Mum: No we have Rolls Royce at home
Rolls Royce at home:
0:29 looks like Price Andrew.
Amazing video, but now I’m depressed cos I’m so old that I actually remember all of these total shit boxes. The past was grim .
still it goes on is it plah or plas? its plas, we had a 3 litre, i still yearn for that car 40 years later
If only there was a Vanden Plas version of the Mini, above the Riley Elf and Wolseley Hornet.What about the 1800, Marina and Maxi. In the 1100/1300 series there are more Vanden Plas survivors than the cheaper Austin and Morris.
Why did Concord pilots and Jaguar drivers have flat finger tips? Lucas gauges. I owned a Jag and an MG at the same time. I got to drive one or the other for a two week time frame since as soon as I received one back from the repair shop I would have to send the other back to the shop for the ongoing problems that were systematic to both. I learned that British Lyland cars looked great at the curb because you never got to drive one beyond a fortnight.
The Vanden Plas All Agro. The ultimate babe puller!
You can’t polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter. Austin Allegro.
Contrary to popular belief, you can actually polish a turd. There's a whole subsection of jewelrymaking dedicated to it.
Here's some history: Brussels up to the middle of the twentieth century was a dominantly DUTCH speaking city. So Vanden Plas was and should be pronounced with the s at the end. The majority of the entire Belgian population still is Dutch speaking (60-40%).
Surely what's relevant is (a) how the family pronounced the name, and (b) how the company name was pronounced in the UK.
No Maybach versions of Mercedes were offed in the 70s
When I first saw the Allegro version I thought that someone had somehow made it as a joke; a bad one at that.
de final s in Van den Plas is not silent. It's not pronounced van den pla but van den plaS
9:40 Flat Eric on the bike!!
_Vanden Plas_ (or van den Plas) is a Dutch/Flemish name, so the s is sounded - it is not plah.
Really sad this wasn’t about the prog power band.
I own a Rover SD1 Vanden Plas 3500
By the way, Leyland rhymes with Elend in German, meaning “misery”. How fitting.
You know how far you’ve fallen when you’re asked to put lipstick on the pig that was the Allegro…
I restored a Bentley S1 in the 90's for a guy when I was freelancing I would restore 1 car a year back then , when fitting the interior back up he used the back seats out of a Vanden Plas Allegro he had to use 4x4s wood to chock the seats up LOL , pleased I was not doing , I ended up working for his mate who owned a RR and Bentley specialists but he got my back up when he bollicked in front of a customer for putting early wings on RR I told him they did not fit he said make fit so I did , I'm sure the courtesy car we had in the 80's at a place I worked at was a brown Vanden Plas Princess right off it was a front end smash they were a pain in the backside to work on , we used to do work for the local funeral directors they ran all Daimler's right piles of poo 18 month old cars rotten first one we did boss says we will all jump on it body solder it all so we did body solder is lead , ok next one comes in fill it full of glass fiber again we jump on it aye you can f off and walked away him and the other lads did it , he had already stitched me with repairing loads of glass fiber milk floats so no way was I doing hearse's.
Bluuuuurgh ! ... it was a turd in someone's mind, a turd on the design board and a turd in the showroom - then it infected the streets -- Yukko !
0:47 ancient camber gang
Never in my 80 years have I heard the city of Antwerp pronounced Ontwerp.
Putting the Vanden Plas name on the Austin Allegro is the ultimate example of putting lipstick on a pig!
ha i remember my parents had a austin montego with vanden plas on the side.. terrible car.. but now I know!
mercedes w123 maybach?
Vanden Plas is french for Dogs Breakfast.
An allegro with wannabe rolls Royce grill. So many geniuses worked at Leyland.
There was no W123 Maybach. WTF are you talking about?
Sorry, not Rolls Royce but Daimler