Disaster Down Under - Leyland P76
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2020
- Hello again! :D
Something I was very eager to talk about, and that was the demise of Britain's car influence in Australia during the early 1970s, when after years of near constant sales success, British Leyland, through the provision of one model, undid all their good will Down Under, with the Leyland P76, a car with great promise, but built so incompetently it left Leyland Australia in ruins.
Special thanks to Dave Carey - Street Machine & Garage of Awesome for his original article posted in May 2019 which is where I gathered a majority of my information from to help create this video. I recommend that you have a read of the article as there are many interesting and fun little nuggets of info that didn't make it into the video:
www.whichcar.com.au/features/...
All video content and images in this production have been provided with permission wherever possible. While I endeavour to ensure that all accreditations properly name the original creator, some of my sources do not list them as they are usually provided by other, unrelated RUclipsrs. Therefore, if I have mistakenly put the accreditation of 'Unknown', and you are aware of the original creator, please send me a personal message at my Gmail (this is more effective than comments as I am often unable to read all of them): rorymacveigh@gmail.com
The views and opinions expressed in this video are my personal appraisal and are not the views and opinions of any of these individuals or bodies who have kindly supplied me with footage and images.
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References:
- AROnline (and their respective sources)
- WhichCar (and their respective sources)
- Wikipedia (and its respective references) 
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I worked on the assembly line at Ieyland in 1973\ 74, as a leading hand on the 6 cylinder line and also did overtime on the V8 line when needed. There was never any shoddy workmanship that I can remember and did our work to the best of our ability. Yes there was a lot of different nationalities, but we all got along fine and it was good employment for all. I remember these times fondly
Thanks for sharing, nice to hear your experience...I had about ten P76s and found them great fun and a very nice drive. One retiring journalist said the P76 was fifteen years ahead of its time. It was very common to get a friendly wave from fellow drivers and also a lot of comments from the public. One guy said jokingly "Ah the P76, the symbol of motoring supremacy" ...my mate loved hearing that, him being a Holden driver and knowing the guy was being sarcastic. One car I took in the sand dunes getting it quite airborne a number of times. But then I was cleaning sand out of the engine bay years later...Fun times!
^ Random & insubstantiatable gibberish much?.
Though not having worked in the car industry directly; I've found over the years that a company can have a great staff & product... but if it's run by a duff manager or external factors are unfavourable (from a bad exchange rate to fuel prices), it's all rendered naught -_- .
Under another firm, it's likely the P76 would've been a big seller.
(an unfortunate fact for many a Leyland product)
@MichaelKingsfordGray Sir You are Talking garbage ~ the Unions were blamed for all the ills ~ when its now clear the major culprit was atrocious Mgmt. And still is.
Good on ya mate.great cars.cheers
I remember the interior concept drawings of the design team hanging in my grandparents garage/work shop.My grandfather was one of the interior design heads and helped make the first prototypes interior. Upon retirement he was given his entire work station including sketch and design station along with his sewing machine.
I had a P76. A V8 one. With a 4 barrel manifold and a 465 Holley it actually went quite well. They only weighed 1200kg. Of course it leaked like a sieve and ultimately rusted almost in half. Fond memories none the less. The alloy V8 was 4.4l standard but with a crank from a Ford Y block (if I recall correctly) you could stretch them out to 5.0l. The engines are still quite sought after being all alloy. You could stand over an assembled engine and with your hands in the inlet manifold lift it off the ground. I also had a 2.6l 6cyl Marina but that's another story! Thanks for the blast from the past Rory!
Yes, when the rust gets into the bulkhead they actually break in two at the A pillar...like a Valiant, only worse!
The block was a bit flexible, and needed bracing webs across the valley. I could also be strengthened via a steel plate round the bottom of the crankcase. I fitted one to a 79 S1 RX7 with a Toyota Celica gearbox. This engine was professionally built but developed oil leaks from the crank rear seal.
in the late 80s I had a mate who owned a targa florio and had his engine bored and sleeved out to 5L, also some porting on the heads, a bigger cam and four barrel inlet manifold with big holley and it made 300 HP on a dyno, it went really well
My father bought and loved- for a time- this great big orange boat of a P76 when it first came out, and as a kid, I liked the sporty looks of the thing and the fact it had a big V-8. He had no trouble with its drivetrain but over a span of several years the vehicle basically fell to pieces around that engine. His favourite story was about some piece of trim around the windscreen which was rattling as he briefed a business colleague on the way to a serious meeting, to the point where it was flapping loose in the wind, and without stopping talking, he just calmly put an arm out the window and grabbed it as it came off, put it down beside him and kept speaking as if it were nothing :D It should be noted there's still love for the remaining P76's precisely because they got so famous for being so shit. The Australian Edsel!
BTW, that's one beautiful unit at 7:26.
They were used extensively in NZ as Taxi cabs. Very nice ride and very popular in that role.
I enjoy your style, pure information, no gimmicks. Most info channels and RUclipsrs should lern from you.
Fabulous video Ruairidh, Didnt know about them purchasing some Holdens and a couple of other snippets. Great work!
Good description of a good idea disastrously executed. I almost bought one new - but settled for a used Rover P5B instead.
The Australian assembly plant was at ZETland (ZET rhymes with YET), not ZEETland.
21stCentury Ozman
I made the same correction to Ruairidh MacVeigh at a previous time -
However, he did not learn from it -
Even now he makes errors on many things and has a lot to learn.
Owned one in NZ , loved it , Made the ford & Holden look like dinosaurs , Never had a problem in 4 years & sold it for more than i bought it for .
You where incredibly lucky by the sounds of things. It looked like from this video's description that the car fell apart as soon as it came off the production line!
@@debbieanne7962 I think its called Kama , Iv been lucky in love to & nothings ever fallen apart LOL
I remember the P76 being advertised on TV, I remember the windscreen wipers were hidden in a recess under the bonnet and the huge boot space.
There was this ad on TV where the parking inspector couldn’t lift the windscreen wiper to attach the parking ticket.
Ah yes, the huge boot that could swallow a 44 gallon drum
@@pashakdescilly7517 Or a few bodies
Thanks for this one. I know zero about Australian BL cars, but I saw a similar collapse of British designed and engineered cars in the Caribbean, with the former colonies and commonwealths going from a nearly 100% British car stock in 1970 to maybe 10% in 1985. The Japanese stepped in and mopped up the Caribbean car market, and not just from Britain. US carmakers also had an opportunity to step in and serve the whole Caribbean car and truck market if they could have ever figured out how to make the right size vehicles and get the steering wheel on the "correct" side.
@@planestrainsdogsncars4336 Yes. No one else in the Caribbean wanted to buy used '55 Chevy's in 1975 so Cuba didn't really have much of a market to sell to.
Ive never understood why American car makers are so incompetent about putting the steering wheel on the right (except for Jeep, since they had a contract 50 years ago to make right-drive postal delivery vehicles so the tooling was already set up for it) for export. I would not expect Japanese cars to sell well here if they had the wheel on the right, why would they bitch about Japanese (for example) rejecting buying American cars with the wheel on the left? It cant be that f-ing hard to do. Hell, the Unimog has one that slides back and forth to your choice of side!
My father bought the P76 V8 brand new when it came out. It proved to be a very good car, with plenty power and massive boot space which came in very handy. He only sold it when fuel prices started to climb, making it uneconomic. In all he had the P76 for 10 years and it never broke down.
People that owned these cars speak highly of them, the rest are happy to bag them,because there not Holdens or Fords I'd say.
Over many years this old man owned & loved 15 P76 cars. Loved most, hated the odd occurring faults. all long gone.Still have 5 Targa Florio mag wheels in the shed. Wish I had the money & opportunity to own another now
Very compact dialogue and pretty accurate assessment of Leyland Australia’s demise. Top notch program
HMMM! You actually need to talk to people that owned them,you will get a different story,maybe they weren't perfect but the p76 was a good workhorse from what I have been told.
Excellent video. I have often wondered how the Australian factory would have prospered if it hadn't had to dance to the tune of the UK headquarters and been shut down prematurely. The P76 had so much potential. Cheers
The P38,, half a car. And had very little potential.
@@ldnwholesale8552 Actually, BL already had a P38. It's called a Range Rover.
@@ldnwholesale8552 pretty big car for half a car.
Found the channel by accident and just love your car videos. The video length is perfect, like a documentary and your research is superb.
I had a P76 V8, brilliant car, so far ahead of its time.
You forgot to mention the most important design feature of it.
That was, it could take a 44 gallon drum in the boot. Very Australian that!
Yup that and a hay bale.kiwi here
Or a couple of kegs.
An empty 44 oil drum, not a heavier petrol drum. They dragged their bums on th ground far worse than the HQ. Carrying the same weight!
The ability to carry a 44 in the boot is bit like space to swing a cat. Why? Always wondered About this- was it room to swing puss by the tail, or a cat o' 9 tails. Interesting domestic arrangements some folk have.
Great boot for Snowtown
In my view the P76 suffered from two critical failures. The bean counters at Longbridge not realising the possibilities and failing to invest properly in something they didn't take the time to understand and secondly terrible timing launching during an oil crisis. The second issue could not have been predicted, the first was standard BMC/Leyland/Rover (whatever we are called this week) operating procedure.
My evening tea went cold while I was listening to all of Leyland s problems in Australia
Excellent report. As a Brit, I found it disgraceful that once great car manufacturers have been brought to their knees by really bad management.
Some of the products were good. My Mk1 Marina Estate was brilliant, but then I regrettably got a Mk2 which was a heap of junk, thanks to designers who forgot what the customer actually wanted.
British manufacturering in general lost the shine it had years ago due to poor management
Not forgetting of course was the destructive work by the UK workforce engineered by their union at a time when both industrial entities - management and labour were determined to destroy each other.
During the early 1970s, my job required a lot of road travel around the country. The Leyland was a rare site on the roads I travelled.
No surprisingly, because a great many seemed to be almost permanently garaged in the repair workshops of Dominion Motors, latter, NZ Motor Corporation, the local agent selling cars and trucks produced by British Leyland and its predecessor organisations. There seemed little at the time that would persuade traditional buyers of those cars assembled locally by the Australian Big Three to feel that a change to a P76 would be in any way adventurous to them.
More popular among rural dwellers than city folks, the P76 offered some real advantages to the country cousins because of the cars size and carrying capacity. The choice of two engine configurations - straight six and an enlarged Rover V8 licenced to the British by the Buick division of GM, gave the cars a fairly descent shot in the pants. But, it just wasn't to be.
While the writer of this documentary chose to slurr immigrant Polynesian workers allegedly from a cross the Pacific, but in fact were mostly from Western Samoa occompanied on the line by folks from Eastern Europe and the now newly named Brexitania, but the people referred to then as whinging Poms, saw a local car assembly filling the car buying needs of the local inhabitants with built up imports coming from Europe and the US after all this changed after the success of Japanese car's. But all things must pass and local vehicle assembly ceased as traditional northern Hemisphere manufacturers shrunk in number and their products deteriorated in quality to be rapidly replaced by more reliable cars from Japan and fitted with accessories as standard where on CKD from Britain didn't but could be at an extra cost to the buyer.
Changes are rapid in our ever changing world as its now the turn of South Korea to produce and sell their automobiles. A willing buyer would be hard pressed here to buy a British car these days as China seems to have some British car badges in their ownership. But that is how international trade and manufacturing is these days.
Sir Clive Sinclair did a similar thing to his own company. Hell, even old Robert Maxwell was let in to do much the same havoc in the '80s to many British publishing houses!
Well done , this is an excellent and accurate description of the events that occurred, given it’s only 14 minutes long. Very well done
This is a beautifully, thoroughly and fluently expressed account of the P76 saga, thank you!
The Rover 3.5 Litre was an aluminum V8 designed by Buick and later purchased by Rover.
This engine was not used in any American pickup trucks, large or small.
Very interesting and informative video otherwise
Exactly. I saw an old video where Quentin Wilson made this same claim about the Buick/Rover V8 and I honestly wonder where on earth this idea came from.
@@judethaddaeus9742 LOL, yes, I was watching this, and its like "Oh no, another British car expert peddling inaccurate and poorly-researched information on the American car industry because they simply can't be bothered." How difficult would it have been to research the origin of the "Rover V8" that started life in the (by US standards) SMALL Buick Special???? I wonder if this guy has heard of the Internet and something called "wikipedia". Its not perfect, but pretty darn good.
Saved me a task, I was going to say the same.
@@judethaddaeus9742 Maybe that idea came from the guy that put push rods in water pumps :)
@@gogogeedus Yeah, what was that about ?
Good video and lots of good info.
The BL thing of "we own a company, they can do it" (even though they are lousy at it, ie "pressed steel Fisher") affected the Stag as well. The Stag engine was a high revving OHC engine; engineers specified a highly balanced, nitrided high speed crank. NEEDED to be outsourced to engineering companies who had experience/could do that. Oh no; we have just taken over a truck engine foundry who make clunky low revving huge/heavy truck cranks - get THEM to do it........ = idiocy.
Just a small thing here. The "Holden Premier" is a bit misleading. "Premier" is the trim level (luxury, supposedly). Only a fraction of Holdens were Premiers, they were too expensive for the average Aussie. Most were Kingswoods, that was the "normal" trim level. There was a lower trim level for vans and utes (trade) and they were Belmonts. They didn't even have door armrests. I had a Belmont HQ (1971) van - The interior looked like they had forgotten to finish it, it was SOOO sparse!!! After that, I bought Brit cars. Here they were cheaper than Holden/Falcons; and "had interiors." :-)
But all the facts you quote are quite close to the mark (although I find the "migrant workers none/hardly any of whom spoke English" a bit much :-) ).
But there is one thing you are forgetting. If these cars had been PERFECT; there was one thing that they COULD NEVER overcome.
And that is the "Holden/Ford" thing. Bathurst (racing) folklore back then was total and all consuming. Families disowned members because they "defected" from one to the other. People would initiate you into the "LOVE one/must HATE the other" cult following. For a while "Brock" was a VERY popular name for Oz boys from one of our Holden drivers. Yes, it was THAT ingrained/all consuming.
I never went in for it (I thought it was ludicrous); but you had all the Holden guys over there, HATING the Ford guys on the opposite side of the pub............... and the Valiant guys were a "fringe" group.
So - you walk into that pub and say "Hey!!! GREAT new car!!!! Forget your Holdens/Fords you start fights over/name your kids after/get tattoos of/dedicate your lives to/wave flags for - we have a NEW car!!!" Guys in pub say "Who makes it? Chrysler? Chev? Ford????" (The allegiance these petrol heads follow).
NO!!!! It is made by the company that makes the Mini's/Morris Marina's that you would NEVER drive and barely let your wives drive!!!!!" (Cue rampant laughter )
THAT is the environment they tried to sell this car in. It was doomed before the first one even arrived. Even Valiant (with Bathurst/touring car wins with the successful Charger) couldn't make a dent. Think about that - Chrysler struggled with their background of "large cars for years." And you are trying to sell a large car made by a company who has NO lineage of large cars/ONLY known for smaller cars (in Australia anyway). HOW were you going to sell THAT????
So THAT is the main reason the P76 never went anywhere. Only Australians really understand that; and if the management had "just asked some Aussies" about that part of the market, well....... But you know company politics, once the CEO says "I have an idea!!!!" I am the kind of guy who says "hang on..." and just get sacked/moved on, CEO then says "anyone else??" and all just "agree".
Oh, and Premier. In Oz, a "Prem - ee - air" is the first time a movie is shown. A "Prem - ee - ah" is a fancy trimmed Holden. And Zetland - (until recently a Navy stores depot, now fancy apartments I think) is "Zet - land". Like "let/get/bet". Not "Zeeeeet - land". Americans elongate syllables, we abbreviate them.
But this vid; Good effort, interesting stuff here. BL weren't the only ones who "misread" the "need to downsize" due to fuel prices. Chrysler Aust released the new Valiant early 70's that looked HUGE right when prices started to bite.
BL could have saved a fortune on R&D by forgetting the P76 and focusing on the SD1 which was a very good car and well suited to Au conditions, it was in the mid size category which was a growing market. a two door version of the sd1 would have sold well because it had that sporty Ferrari front which was more like the future where the blunt nose of the p76 was more like the past,I totally agree with you that Holden and ford had that market covered.
British Leyland constantly shot themselves in the foot!
Even that would fail, they couldn't hit the side of a big barn with a shotgun.
Shotgun be blowed. You'd be safe directly in front of them armed with a blunderbuss!
Kind of like the US government?
@@JohnSmith-eo5sp Not quite yet but when the US goverment reaches the BL managment standards the US is doomned.
@@obelic71
The USA 'surpassed' BL years ago in that respect.
Despite all their problems, they were a far superior car to drive over the crap Holden, Valiant and Ford were producing at the time. The excellent engine was placed further back, and the car felt wider and flatter in corners. It was easy to ignore the faults in the one my brother had.
Wheels Magazine said the same.
Agreed; I went from a V8 P76 Deluxe with three-on-the-tree to a 4.1 XC Falcon auto; what a backwards step that was!
Nice upload RM, showed this to my old man as well who loves his cars, both enjoyed watching!
@MichaelKingsfordGray What are you even taking about?
Fascinating video. I also had no idea that Aussie and Kiwi cars had such big differences under the skin, but then I watched a whole series of videos reviews of AU and NZ-made BL cars on Hubnut.
Not quite. NZ made content was nudging towards 50% at its peak. So it wasn't 'only' assembly. And also under the CER Aust/NZ trade agreement. Australian car makers sourced some of their components from NZ. Because it qualified as Australian content.
The boot space is terrific. For a sedan to be able to easily fit a massive sound kit back in the '80s when I attended school discos run by one DJ owner, is testimony to its versatility.
So, it was The Roadies Favourite!
Having drove one some ten years ago i can say with certainty that the cars faults lay mostly with how it was managed by management. It looked great and drove very well... the crime was it got cut down so early in its production that teething issues never got sorted
It was also rather larger than the Holdens, Falcons and Valiants of the time.
@@graemedurie9094 not a good thing being released at the time of the fuel crisis
@@sutherlandA1 Not a good thing at all, but there was so much else wrong with it.
@@sutherlandA1 Except it was released prior to the oil crisis. And Australians still needed larger cars. It also had a smaller and less gas guzzling V8 than most of it's competitors - plus the 6 pot donk. For Australians that needed to travel very long distances over poor roads with 4 kids, (i.e. the average Australian family of the time) they still needed a larger car with a big boot than British people. It's just that people avoided buying new cars due to hard times, it wasn't a poorly positioned model. They simply would have sold more 6 cylinder variants. Also if British management had stood aside, Leyland Australia would have provided factory LPG models, which would have been very economical during the oil crisis. But of course British Leyland would have killed that initiative also.
By that stage the teething problems had already been sorted out. The reliability of the car has been established and it had been voted car of the year. Amazing progress in such a short time for a first car designed from scratch. Contrary to this video, the P76 sales were forecast to increase and it was just getting going in its lifecycle. It was on track to be a financial success story for Leyland. The oil crisis only slowed the projected growth, and only for a few years. It wasn't a disaster for the P76 that you might imagine.
They were just about to release the Force 7 and then a station wagon model. These would have been affected by the oil crisis but they would have increased sales from existing sunk development costs. There are real questions about the Force 7. It was seriously cool for the time but it may have only been sold in limited numbers in 1974. It didn't share body panels with the base model which raised it's cost. Combined with the oil crisis, it may have struggled until they redesigned it to bring the costs down. That said, it was a more economical cool looking coupe than the competition. Plus it had the uniqueness factor. The station wagon would have been in demand but the refusal to increase the size of the production line was probably already holding up release of that model so there are questions about how many they could have produced in 74 and 75.
The P76 was not the problem. The problem was that British Leyland had got into their own financial difficulties in the UK and shutdown their overseas arms to try and save the parent company.
What killed the P76 in the end was the unions of the component manufactures and the refusal to invest/upgrade the assembly line by British Leyland. They were so troublesome that Leyland Australia could not be sold as a going concern. If they had at least got those things right, they could have sold it all off as a going concern and got a bunch of cash on exiting. But British Leyland were so short sighted that they even failed to get that right. Plus one wonders if British Leyland management were so incompetent that they just didn't want someone else making a success out of their own failures.
Then they decided to crush most of the Force 7s they had started to make, which was mind bogglingly stupid and meant they lost more money.
@@DavesShed yes 3 months prior, but it takes time to ramp up production and fix quality issues. Hence by the time oil prices went up the p76 missed it's opportunity to establish itself and be a relevant competitor hence the low 18000 built. It's a real shame as I really like the big Leyland and believe it could've been a game changer if given the right opportunities
Thanks for this video.
That Holden Premier featured is an HQ model that was released at the end of 1971, not the late 1960s.
6:30 The Ford Falcon came with four engine options: a 200 CID (3.3 litre) and a 250 CID (4.1 litre) straight sixes, and a 302 CID (4.9 litre) and 351 CID (5.8 litre) V8. I assume the fuel figures you quote must be for one of the V8s.
The car is referred to by some as the P38, as it was only half the car it was supposed to be.
Take care.
Only around ten percent of Falcon, Holden and Valiant went with the V8 option then.
Inline six cylinder versions dominated sales.
And to think there was later a P38 Range Rover....😂
Our work car fleet comprised Chrysler Regals & P76. If you needed to be somewhere in a hurry, you took a P76 as they would run rings around the Chryslers plus they would start hot or cold which the Chryslers would not. I've driven a friend's Targa Florio P76 & it was a brilliant car.
Thanks for another great video. A popular urban legend on the internet is that one of the demands to the design was it being able to hold a 44 gallon barrel in the boot. Don't know if it's true or not, but the final car COULD hold one. Pretty good for a sedan, but also a contributing factor to it's somewhat lumpy looking rear end. Looks very sharp and Austin Princess like from the front though.
I've seen a photo of a 44 gallon drum in the boot of a P76. Impressive, but not all that practical, you'd never lift it out if it was full
Time and money ran out by the time they got as far as the rear end.
The 44 gallon drum gimmick was true, but if filled even two people would not be capable of lifting it in and out by the rim using fingertips.
Would likely upset car balance too.
Pulled up behind a P76 in Castlemaine Vic as the owner was getting out. I said as a joke, "Have you got a 44 gallon drum in the back?" He grinned, opened up the boot and there was one in there!
The car was so much better than anything available in Australia at the time
It was far too advanced for us simple Aussies back then
But it was rushed to market I think and suffered the consequences from that
My grandfather had a six cylinder one and I thought it was an amazing car to drive in
The P76 was far from a disaster and should have done much better than it did. As it turns out it ended up as a bit of an 'also ran' which is far from the dramatic use of the word 'disaster' here in this video.
@MichaelKingsfordGray You did actually watch the video?
@MichaelKingsfordGray Nonsense ~ Piss poor Mgmt ~ same as the Motorcycle & Aircraft Industries etc
@MichaelKingsfordGray My own experience of the P76 was driving in one with my parents around NZ in late '74. By then it had become apparent that it was a failure - my father explained to an American tourist we met that it was 'The Australian Edsel.' With only 12,000 miles on the clock, it also had trim coming off, the (huge) boot would fill with water when it rained, or with dust when we drove on dirt roads. But otherwise it ran well. My father's company had been thinking of buying them for their fleet but stuck with Holdens.
Whose fault was this? A bad workman blames his tools - in this case, the workman is management and the tools are their workers. Those same unions operated at other plants as well, operated by GMH, Ford and Chrysler, yet they had no such quality control problems.
And before you call me an 'anonymous coward', my name is David Morgan and you can find me on Twitter at @Elitism.
Rust buckets. Alloy motor corrodes. British designed yuk.
Did I mention UGLY?
@@scorpiuswireless1
Did you also talk bollocks? Yes.
The Rover V8 was a development of the 215 c.i.d. aluminum V8 designed for the compact Buick Skylark.
It wasn't originally planned for truck use.
The 4.4 litre was though.
@@ThePaulv12 The 4.4 litre version of the Rover V8 was developed in Australia for the Leyland P76. The P76 engine later led to larger versions of the Rover V8 fitted to the Range Rover and other cars such as TVR Griffith
@@pashakdescilly7517 Hehe look at the state of Landies and Rangies today with those piles of doings BMW engines shoved in 'em, absolute joke when they should have just carried on with the 4.9 engine with modifications to bring it into the modern ecogreen age but BMW were looking to lock LR/RR into a costly marriage of inconvenience that has given the vehicles that terrible reputation for breaking down super expensively.
The Buick 225 V6 was part of the same engine family (descending from the 1952 Nailhead 300 V8) and also used in some versions of the Skylark/F85/Tempest platform, until it was sold to Jeep, bought back 10 years later, enlarged slightly to 231 cu in, made even-firing in 1977, and became one of the most successful engines in GM history.
Am old enough to remember the sale of the Buick V8 which also powered a Melbourne friend's Triumph Stag. At least, the P76 bootsize which BMC claimed to hold a 44 gallons drum was correct. Otherwise, something of a schemozel all round.
Guy I knew back in the day bought a P76 for a taxi. It was an utter disaster plagued with multiple issues. Can't remember all of them now, too many years gone under the bridge, but I do remember oil consumption (think it was a V8) was a big problem. It spent more time in the workshop of Lanes Motors Frankston than on the road. Needless to say he unloaded it quick smart and bought a Ford or Holden like everyone else in the cab buisness.
We had a Blue Targa Florio P76 which had many luxuries and almost build quality issues. It was at least 5 years ahead of the competition, better handling , comfort and we overtook a Falcon GT and and SLR 5000 on a long straight country road doing 125 M.P.H.
A car that was killed off by more amazing cars from Japan. Datsun 1600, 180B, Toyota Corona. And these days the P76 is a priceless collectable car.
Doubt that. Then Japan would have killed the entire muscle car industry, which is still highly alive in AU.
The Japanese cars weren't beautiful but they were at least reliable, economical. Whereas the p76 was just plain UGLY.
@@metricstormtrooper All 70's cars were ugly bro
@@miljororforsprakpartiet290 LOL, what muscle car industry...Australia can't make cars anymore
@@leokimvideo Anymore and the 1970's is quite a difference.
I enjoyed the video - thanks. I remember that the ACT police got P76's as patrol cars and I heard they called them "P38's" as they considered it only half a car. I also noted the aerial photo at around 11:10 of the Zetland site. I grew up just out of sight of the photo, in Kensington. I can make out the very end of Moore Park golf course, the WD&HO Wills factory and the road that is now Southern Cross Drive. The factory site has now grown many high-rise apartment blocks.
The pommification of Australia was a disaster in manufacturing and the militant unions .We imported so many problems from the "motherland". When the Leyland buses were replaced with Mercedes buses in Sydney over a hundred mechanics lost their jobs ,the Mercedes were too reliable LOL
The P76 is yet another chapter in the catalogue of missed opportunities that is the British Leyland story. So tragically frustrating, as has been said countless times now.
Still, am glad to see that a loyal following exists for these beasts in Australia today, in much the same way as the surviving BL products here at home. Cracking vid yet again. :)
I believe a "knock down kit" was a standard production Leyland that was driven a few miles and the pieces gathered back up from the side of the road.
I worked on the P76 assembly line in Lower Hutt NZ in 1976, as I recall. It's now the site of Ulrich Aluminium. At the end, about one car per week was coming off the line, and was discontinued soon after.
What a litany of issues, shame it didn't get the attention it needed from launch, it could have been awesome from day one. Glad to hear they're collectable now!
Grew up having my dad talk about the Morris major, nice to hear some history on it.
Morris Majors are great...go get one while they're still cheap!
Absolutely fascinating details, great vid!
I love these car stories!
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Thank you for telling their story!
The concept was good, here in Australia we like big four door sedans that can handle rough roads, it's just I guess the UK interference was too great :/
Not to mention they were at least straight sixes and the flagship models being v8 powered 😁
@@skylined5534 yup, a I6 is a brilliant engine XD (still in love with the Hemi 245.... XD)
I doubt that a competantly run UK firm would have screwed this up. BL management after all remains legendary up here in blighty... for bad decisions.
@@jimtaylor294 it seems a well trod thing about the Auto industry, good ideas and great vehicles get gutted and destroyed by mismanagement and internal bickering....
@@chrisgurney2467 Aye; among other factors.
The rust set in [for the UK's mass market car sector anyway] with:
• Lord Morris of Nuffield, whom post-WWII took on a particular obcession with pointless tight fistedness, which saw his - and later associated makes as his successors took on this flawed philosophy - business wasting time & money keeping outdated factories & tooling therein going.
The Morris Minor for instance was a modern car for the '50's & '60's... albeit built with machinery often dating back to the 1920's or even '10's.
• The Macmillain - and subciquent - government's *Regional Policy* , which was the death blow for the Rootes Group, and saw what became BLMC, waste vast amounts of time & effort on a pointlessly dispersed network of main & subassembly factories.
Add in the 'Strikitus' pandemic throughout industry at the time, and it's a miracle that anything got built.
I first saw a p76 when I was backpacking in oz in 2004 and doing seasonal work on a banana plantation .one was was parked in a garage on our spider and snake filled tin shack .so bad I opted to stay in my tent .I asked the farmer about the car as I thought I could buy it as I was in AWE of it.But having talked to the farmer which was a struggle as he hated us Brits .He said it was the worst car he had ever owned and had bought it new and said it basically fell to bits and wouldent get it to run right and blew a head gasket every 6 months and the air con was useless and it leaked and the car would fill with dust no matter what when driving .what really put me off in the end was the massive python under the bonnet and a brown snake under the seat as well as the massive spiders .So I left well alone as he wanted a months work for it and if I dident get it going in a week he wanted another months work .so yes I passed on this wonderful beast .I'm a big fan of Davd Bach .
Land Rover very quickly lost out to Toyota, Nissan and other Japanese 4wds. Starting in 1958 as we were one of the first big markets for LandCruiser. Lots of collectable rare ones here.
With each new Landrover the annoyance accumulates.
And yet ..... they are still doing very well considerng they are a niche supplier by Toyota standards.......... and have always been from the 60's onwards. Business' like LR have always been a niche operation even when they "owned " the off road market. Jaguar Land Rover managed to sell just over 9500 examples of its SVO models, up 64 per cent on last year. The company says there has been extremely strong demand for all seven, but particularly the Range Rover SVAutobiography models. However, the Range Rover Sport SVR was the best-selling SVO vehicle during the period.
I'm learning so many British automotive words in this video! "Boot space", "saloon car", "bonnet", "nought-to-sixty time", etc...
There was a guy in Cobbitty (near me) who had a green one. Used to be parked next to his business for many years. Business closed, P76 gone...! Since there were only 1500 or so of them made, it is pretty rare to spot one "in the wild". It wasn't a historic rego, or anything like that - it was his daily driver.
"The Australian consumer needed a car that was very toey ! So that's how the last of the V8 interceptors came to market!"
Once we get into the Rover rebadged Honda era I start physically cringing.
I used to have a Facelifted Honda Accord in Pirates Black sister car to the Rover 600.
The Rover SD1 really ruined Rover's reputation here and it never recovered. In the 1980's, there were a couple of Honda models on the market here, being sold as Hondas and with some very minor modification as Rovers. The Hondas always well and truly outsold the Rover version.
even tho the Honda's were FAR Better cars !!!
Ronda
The Buick V8 sold to Rover never powered a pickup truck. The engines were used in GM’s compact cars like the olds Cutlass, Pontiac Tempest, Buick Special
The Leyland Boxer truck was 4.2 litre V8 powered
It was fitted to some Boxers, tho.
I meant the Buick 215 was never used for truck applications in the USA.
Great car, what a shame it did’nt last! Great to drive and handle.
Potentially this was a great car and considering it was their first effort at a large family sedan, developed in Australia ,it was way ahead of its time and I think it had the biggest trunk ever put in a car, even when it came out it was so modern and so different from all the rest that given more time for development and fine tuning , it would have been a trail blazer and then the oil crisis happened.
My uncle inexplicably had two of these things, he was a sucker for a cheap second hand car. First was a 6 cyl version that had nothing going for it whatsoever, second was a v8 four speed that had some redeeming features and if someone held onto it long enough to de-bug the thing would have been ok but it wasnt given the chance by him and chopped in for the next "good deal".
That was very interesting and filled in a lot of gaps in my knowledge. Thank you, sir. One observation is how much that initial underfunding (and lack of vision) influenced the subsequent problems.
The wagon survived in a rusty state in Cootamundra.
I owned two of these and they were probably the best cars I had owned at the time.
There were also a handful of aftermarket P76 wagon conversions. I've seen one of these in Adelaide, along with a stretched P76. (!!)
@@TheKnobCalledTone. Good to know. A stretched one, that would have been a REAL fan, and probably the only one in the world.
A very well researched and presented video, as an Aussie I really enjoyed this one. A few things you didn't mention that I think are relevant below.
1: The boot was so spacious you could literally fit a 44 UK gallon drum in there lol.
2: The Aussie Marina could be optioned with the same 2.6 litre straight six and was branded the Marina Super.
3: According to all sources the stunt of crushing the majority of Force 7V's to force the price up backfired spectacularly, most sold at or below retail price at auction and if I remember correctly at least 1 was passed in and sold 2 days later for an undisclosed sum.
And once there, you literally could not take the 44gal drum out
I got smuggled into many drive ins as a kid in one of these by my uncles.
I had a six cylinder white one , back in 1989 . It must have been a mid week production job , for it never played up at all . It was pleasant to drive and an interesting alternative to my Holdens , Falcons and ' Marrickville Mercedes . Car of the Year in 1973 .
The V8 engine had a lot of fans, in the eighties I saw a falcon rallying with one powering it, sounded great, and went well.
Only one,, that was Rallycross and Off road racing. The lack of engine weight was the reason but it was slow. And yes I knew that man very well. His other cars were Caddilacs!!
Just pointing out that the footage of the 1100 on the "Dominion Motors Test Track" is actually in New Zealand...
@MichaelKingsfordGray Do you even know what you said?
@MichaelKingsfordGray freak
Yep, I remember seeing that ad on TV during the 1960s.
Apparently the car/s used in the filming of that commercial broke a few axles because of the rough treatment they gave them.
I inherited my parent's P-76 when they upgraded in the early 80s. It was too much for a 17 year old and it was eventually written off in an accident that wasn't my fault. (Driver coming the other way running a red light while I was turning right. That's said walked away just fine.)
In the late 80s I had a mate who owned four, all v8s, including a targa florio that had it's engine bored and sleeved out to 5L, and a 4.4 that he rallied! Knew another bloke who had sixteen, yes sixteen, all V8s, only one was registered, the rest were stored in one of his dad's chicken sheds. At a car show in 88 I saw one with Rover Vitesse fuel injection fitted, purred like a kitten
Water pump pushrods ? I will not say these cars were good looking but I did drive a few of them. they were great.
An Uncle of mine had a V8 Executive manual, which I drove often. The absolute major problem with the car was that it was so far ahead of its time. Nothing on the road at the time drove as well. For some unknown reason the press went to great lengths to kill it off. What a shame....
My technical drawing teacher at high school drove a white P76 to work each day. As a kid I remember enjoying the sound of the 4.4 V8. Early 1980s.
Great video. Although they were never called a Rover Quint in Australia. It was a Rover Quintet. My mum has had one since new, even with the original alloy wheels with the Rover center emblem and Honda cast into the alloy side.
I remember looking under the bonnet of a Quintet at the Brisbane Motor Show (when we still had them). There was nothing at all to disguise the Honda origins, with the builder's plate proudly saying Honda Motor Co., Ltd. I have no doubt it was the most reliable Rover ever built.
I remember as a teenager looking at them when first released at UK Motors in Brisbane. Even at that age I noticed the appalling fit of the doors and other hardware. I do like P76s though.
The P76 had a great reception. Everyone loved the idea of an up to date Aussie big car. Mac struts. Alloy v 8. Bold styling which even today is striking. The boot was said to enough for a 44 gallon drum. Wheels magazine made it Car of the Year. The bold concept was destroyed by BL cancer. Underdevelopment. Short cuts starvation budgets. Lack of management leadership. Poorly trained workers. Poor product placement.
The car was bound to tail before it reached production. Yet it was strangled before birth. The potential and advances were destroyed by the cold dead hand of Stokes and his band. Yet know its competitors. Ford Falcon. Holden Kingswood/ Commodore were on the death bed soon too. Vale P 76. They are still around snd loved. Go figure ? Great vid.
It certainly was streets ahead of its contemporaries in design, power, handling and concept. The 'big three' big cars of the time were actually pretty woeful by world standards. Shame about the timing and the company building it...
@@jamesmcinerney2882 I'm not sure what world standard cars were making the big three big car products woeful. Nothing out of the UK, that's for sure, nor the US, since the big three designs were all US sourced anyway. There were no models from Europe or Japan that competed size wise, except the larger Mercedes and BMW cars and they were way more expensive. European cars also suffered from a lack of a decent repair and spare part network, whereas the local product wasn't exotic enough to befuddle garage mechanics at the time.
Wheels car of the year was a poisoned chalice. Only the worst cars became car of the year. And the P38 was a huge fat arsed lemon!!
There are a number of omissions in the narrative.
First, the reason why P76s were being stockpiled was due to the fact that the supply of various components bought in from outside suppliers had been disrupted due to long running industrial action by the Automotive Unions against those suppliers. For example external door handles could not be obtained and so Leyland Australia was forced to stockpile almost complete P76s until those parts could be delivered.
Second, some of the limited number of coupes that were built were not crushed so that , as claimed, the few other remaining coupes might have their value increased when sold, the coupes were crushed because they were not Australian Design Rules [ADR] compliant and therefore could not be legally road registered if sold to the public. That being the case, Leyland Australia realised that it wouldn't be able to sell the coupes to the general public and so the decision was made to crush all the coupes. At the time Leyland Australia stopped its manufacturing activities, the coupe was in the process of being certificated for ADR compliance, as was the Station Wagon [Estate to you British].
Third, Leyland Australia's "A car" project was not cancelled, it was put on hold and continued on in the background under the model designation P82 being eventually scheduled for release after the P76.
Forth, the P76"s boot being deliberately designed to take a 44 gallon drum is an urban myth which originated from a journalist working for a motoring magazine. True Leyland's own advertising showed Hay Bales being fitted in to the boot, but a standard Hay Bale is a lot smaller and lighter than a 44 gallon drum.
Fifth, the P76 was never intended to be an Australia only model, it was intended for export to other markets as well, specifically New Zealand and South Africa. Other Leyland Australia products had already been exported to those countries, the Marina to South Africa and the Austin Kimberley / Tasman to New Zealand.
And in fact, quite a number of P76 were exported to and sold in New Zealand.
Sixth, the Morris Marina built in Australia was an entirely different car to that of the British version. Australian Marina's used the E series OHC 4 cylinder engine as well as having the E series 6 cylinder engine The resulting poor reputation amassed by the Marina in Australia was largely attributable to the 6 cylinder Marina. The engine was too heavy for the chassis, causing disastrous handling problems. It was also not competitive against other manufactures products, especially Ford and Holden's bigger 6 cylinder cars in terms of interior space, fuel efficiency and build quality.
4:20 Interesting to see a P76 registered with a 1973 British registration plate. I checked it on the Gov website and it's tax ran out in early 1974 'but' the last time the registration documents were updated was Nov 2019. So it seems the car is still in the UK. I wonder if it's in a museum somewhere?
Well spotted. I know a New Zealand collector wanted one of the ten Force 7 couped so much that he tracked down the ex Leyland management example from the UK and had it exported to NZ at great expense.
Hubnut P76 test earlier this year may have touched on the P76 UK evaluation examples and shows a link to a great Leyland site with huge amounts of information.
The Hubnut P76 evaluation drive and story from Feb 2020 :
ruclips.net/video/oSwgB_68Duo/видео.html
With more of the background and pages and pages of the first owners listing of the faults he wanted Leyland to fix. Most telling.
The good news being that with everything learned from the P76, Austin Rover learned from it's mistakes and went on to produce the Montego.
great documentary....thank you.
fantastic towing car. The 4.4 litre V8 also makes an excellent jet boat motor
@Uncle Joe absolutely I would, I know of several P76 V8s just lying around
The P38 was a very poor towing vehicle. The 4.4 was weak and the rear suspension very weak. And that was towing a Mini race car!!
That hydrolastic suspension seems heavenly. Wow!
I learned to drive on a Morris 1100 back in the late 70's in Nottingham. Lessons cost £2. 10p. Failed my test in it.
Excellent review. Thank you for your work.
For those wanting to know more, an Australian feature on the P76 and covering how well it did in the 1974 World Cup Rally :
ruclips.net/video/o04tHPPflvk/видео.html
The World Cup Rally car being hand built with a lot of care and so was good enough to win the Targa Florio section of the 1974 World Cup Rally. This achievement led Leyland to release a Taga Florio model that is likely the best of the four doors.
They have also done well in recent Peking to Paris events for historic cars. Either winning this harsh event or it's class several times. So not quite a disaster in many ways.
I can think of many more cars that are much more complete disasters.
44 Gallon drum in the boot demo, but would have to be empty.
When I was young in Australia our family had a green one of these, and it was the car I learned to drive in. It was not as bad as this video says.
It didn't have more mechanical issues than average, no leaks, doors closed well. However the modularised dashboard area was not perfect. Something in there was too big and applying pressure to the rest of the dashboard modules. He's correct about that !!
We had the V6 version for some reason. Absolutely gutless when trying to go up a hill.
However, we could transport a medium sized surfboard in the boot with the boot closed. The boot was huge.
This film highlights the truism that:
There are no bad men, only bad officers.
Another management fail.
Yet they are paid so handsomely.
...but who paid Derek Robinson and his filthy ilk? 🤔🤔
@@stephenscholes4758 So, you have been supping on the murdoch kool aide.
Filthy ilk huh?
Railing against mismanagement is a crime is it?
Filthy ilk is reserved for the inept besuited types that mismanaged and ran these organisations in to the ground, then met at their wood panelled clubs to gloat over their fleecing of the working classes afterwards.
The murdoch press got stuck in to him, what a surprise, not.
It wasn't Robinson that decided to build such lemons as the Morris Marina, or the Kimberley, or the Princess Van Den Plas, or the outright terrible Allegro, it was the besuited ones that you tug your forelock to, those great managers like stokes and his chums. They could not organize a pint in a pub - even though they thought their breeding ensured they could.
It was them that decided to build such shite. Not Robinson or anyone connected to any union in any way shape or form. Dud cars was the reason for Leyland's demise, cars that no one wanted. Marina's built on production lines solely built for Minis and all the shambles that accompanies.
It wasn't labour that did in Leyland, it was the inept management.
My original statement stands, and you obviously do not understand it in its basic form nor the nuanced form it also suggests. Good and proper management will prevent bad outcomes, that is what suits are highly paid for - to forsee al possible eventualities and outcomes -the donkey duds at Leyland thought they were born to rule by decree. LOL.
You should do more research before commenting next time son.
@@nkelly.9 surely after two months you could have come up with something other than Cliches ripped from a Guardian op ed... Communists now merely "rail against mismanagement?? Oh dear - if only the Communist Manifesto had been so benign For every Allegro there was an XJ6 or Rangey, but workers, indoctrinated by an alien ideology, still saw fit to sabotage their build quality, deliberately build-in rattles in the form of loose bolts in door bottoms, deliberately leave in sand cores. Ultimately, Unions are Globalists best friends - they can easily facilitate a quick kill of an industry on their behalf, as they did in the UK - it was a twined ambition - oh but still the soft Left go on about spectators like Murdoch, and the design merits of the Allegro..pfft....the Japanese, benefactors of the global swing of capital, still could only offer the element of build quality over and above British equivalents (most Japanese cars were basic stodge) ..who was responsible for build quality? The notion that Unions are only inflamed by an unhappy workforce is debunked by the story of Jensen. Successful company, happy workforce but Communist union leaders saw fit to take them on...the bankers walked...turn out the lights. But go on if you will with your naivete, your cancerous ideology
Real shame they crushed all those Force-7 coupes!
All but ten sold at an auction.
Will try and post a link to one being driven from a few months back.
Vid of Force 7 Coupe being driven from a collectors fleet as promised :
ruclips.net/video/S21P9n2RoBE/видео.html
The white force 7 how blongs to the Whiteman park motor museum in WA.
I wonder how much influence the Leyland P76 had on the Rover SD1. Probably none since their development programs seemed to be entirely separate. The early run of SD1s had similar quality issues, but that was the standard norm for all BL cars.
I may be misremembering, but I recall reading somewhere that the MkII P76 and MkI SD1 may have ended up being one and the same vehicle had Leyland Australia not folded.
As a former owner, I can certainly attest to their structural strength. I wasn’t aware of the intrusion bars. Perhaps they helped when I walked away with a sore shoulder from a 50km/h “T bone” by a Holden Statesman.
My Oz assembled 71 Ford Galaxie has very solid intrusion bars. Anything 75? on had them as par ADRs
Thanks for the history lesson. I was at the auction that sold the last eight Force 7. A sad day.
Mac fur son strut. Mick ell otti. I know its pedantry but it can only help. Loved seeing these great images and videos. Brilliant.
Australian Marina did get a big change that UK models didn't in the form of the 6-cylinder E series.
I owned one. Great car. Wish I still had it
Please tell me the fkn things had better front susp than our shit with that nasty threaded lower knuckle joint?...ha ha ha, grease them lower truninons mate...
The Buick 215 was not used in pickups. It was used in the intermediate (for the US) sized Buick Special
The P76 was a truly remarkable car in so many ways. From comfort and space to the handling and the V8 power unit. An owner's club exists, fortunately, which allows the P76 to survive and thrive. But for the mismanagement, this was a winner in every way and had it been involved in serious PR attention it would have been the fourth vehicle in the race for racing dominance. Along with the Ford, GMH and Chrysler offerings. The Morris 1100 & 1800 were miracles of space management, with the 1800 in particular an enormous car once inside, a seeming impossibility when first viewed from outside. The models of P76 I have encountered did not have the typically claimed American build quality issues, showing only the best of its inherent nature.
The Marina is a barely remembered piece of completely crass rubbish. How anyone with any sense could have proposed it be sold here at all is beyond reckoning. Where the P76 was a proper-sized car for our market, irrespective of how the mother country viewed the direction our behaviour should be directed, a massive hole developed in the Leyland range. Wave goodbye to the old country children.
I'm neither British or Australian...and I still find this video depressing.
Nice looking car though.
It was FUGLY,, the main reason it failed!!
Congratulations on what comes across as a well-researched documentary. Certainly, its commentary and visual editing are well done. It's about a rather sorry tale; but it comes across as authoritative, and is good to listen to and watch.
First time I hear about this car. Thanks !
My Pop (Grandfather) put a deposit for a V8 P76; when the company shut shop, he lost his deposit, and was even more pissed off with the Brits (being the Irishman that he was).
He ended up buying an XB Falcon V8 wagon, that my uncle still has, and is still used almost weekly
For those not knowing what the predecessor Leyland Kimberley and Tasman X6 were :
ruclips.net/video/AYAPaah4piE/видео.html
and ruclips.net/video/hMmn2leHrwE/видео.html
Both in line 6 cars for Australian preferences, but the bad reputation of the BMC front wheel drive and hydrolastic suspension hindered them. The six was not the best despite seeming modern with OHC. In service reputation soon spread.
The P76 was a response for the demand for a simpler car to be at home in Australia.
I had a P76.. IT was a terrific car
The crap build quality was pretty legendary judging by mechanics at the dealership who used to sell the P76. V8s were just not the norm in Australian cars back then and the 6 cylinder models were woeful. One thing that always struck me about the P76 was it seemed massively "underwheeled". Never looked right...
No it was predictable. The Yanks etc
Were making themselves dependent on Arab oil while deliberately siding with Israel and blind Freddy could see how this would end. And backing the increasingly unpopular Shah after installing him.
My uncle was a farmer and had a P76 when I was a kid. He loved it.