A black legion vs red corsairs raider style chaos war between each other while the imperium is busy dealing with different xenos threats would be awesome.
Reminder from the Badab War, the Astral Claws were adept at playing with geneseed. So not impossible that they have managed to maintain a relatively pure reserve and growing it further with raids. During the Badab War they, from casualty reports, numbered over 6000 marines, built up over the span of just a few centuries, while not arousing suspiscions for multiple of those.
as I recall, in Huron's book they mention the struggles with maintaining geneseed -- this makes sense as they would have lost most of it in the Badab War and then living in a warp rift would make keeping it pure would make it that much harder to maintain.
In terms of ship numbers, the Red Corsairs are reported to surpass any other chaos warband/legion. I would imagine in a space battle the Red Corsairs would have an edge, not just in numbers but experience as well. The Black Legion meanwhile would have an edge in the number of Astartes (not to mention all the other warbands they've essentially vassalized) they could deploy. Abaddon would likely want to either ambush the Red Corsairs (and overwhelm with boarding actions) or force them into a conflict planet side where he could grind them down.
In the second black legion book, the vengeful spirit is seen to be able to duel the entire black templar fleet singlehandedly. Unless the red corsairs also have a gloriana class, their fleet is beaten easily. While I like the red corsairs, with their current numbers and equipment, they stand literally no chance.
@DarthAxolotl I'm lacking context. How big was the Black Templar fleet? Because if it was a large fleet, not gonna lie, that's really dumb. I get that a lot of things in 40k are silly and power scaling is incredibly inconsistent but that's pretty silly For example, Guilliman destroyed an Abyss class battleship and was putting the hurt pretty substantially on the Conquerer with smaller ships he managed to scrape together after the battle of Calth and mosquito tactics. There's no reason that a fleet couldn't handle one ship unless they were understrength, poorly led (which I doubt unless the BTs kept trying to get into melee with it), or just crazy Warp shenanigans going on at the same time that put the advantage on Chao's side
The vassal Warbands might turn out to be more of a liability than a boon in a war against a major Rival to the warmaster. They are barely reliable alllies, when fighting the imperium. Honestly i doubt the traitor Primarchs would help him with this. Most of them hate Abaddon with a passion and would love to ally with the red corsairs for the chance to break his control of the eye of terror. The rest simply wouldnt help him for anything short of a black crusade. The petty warbands might simply be bribed and the pockets of the corsairs are ought to be deep.
Kinda curious if either of them are gonna try to deal with the nids. Cause I doubt Abby is gonna take the idea of the bugs denying him his vengance and crown well.
I said as much in another thread. The Nids are existential threat to Chaos. I'd like to see Abby send Perty to hit the bugs. I had a lot to say about Perty's return but the short version here is that his style of fighting would be well suited to bug smashing. He loves massive firepower, heavy armor and he loves wars of attrition. Also, unless he's changed dramatically since the Heresy, he never used much in the war of warp powers in his army. Iron is his god of choice.
@@Benthesniperof8 *Has flashbacks to all the battle reports where Vashtor got his shit ran by Admech despite the Admech's shitty rules.* Maybe not Vashtor
If there is no plot armor involved then my money is on the Corsairs for one reason. In the Night Lords stories they were used by both sides. Abaddon used them as grunts and nothing else while Huron utilized them as they were designed to be. Infiltration terror units.
Abaddon doesn't care if Night Lords die. Huron cares if his expensive mercenaries do their job. Abaddon has his own favored terror and infiltration troops, the Warband of Talos aren't even his allies in name. If they mattered to his plans Abaddon would've wielded them effectively
Huron is a man who can come back from nothing and with his pact with the Dark Powers grant him strength above strength. As long as he keeps delivering and and never gives in I believe he will forever fight on until his death. I can see him ascending as a true champion of Chaos Undivided.
Blackheart was known in Badab for hiding his strengths, tiger claws into astral claws anyone, and this strategy probably deepened in his fall to chaos. Any projections of the red corsair's strength I will conservatively add 30% to that.
As much as these two may hate each other, they are technically allies. I doubt either one would be foolish enough to start a war with the other until after their common enemies are dealt with.
Start? No, but if it happened, they'd be pushed into it to prove themselves the dominant force. I'd put my money to Huron in a military conflict, Abbadon is too prone to rash and wasteful decisions if he isn't winning a fight.
To be honest it's unlikely these two fight one another as long as Imperium still strong, they can't afford to be weakened while Imperium seeks to wipe them out .
would be a sound argument. But this is chaos. The only reason why imperium fends them off for 10k years IS because they fight among eachother at the least ideal times. Every moment of every operation there is someone looking up to gain their gods favour or to grab power. Like Chaos gods and their great game. You want to be at the top but at the same time you need to make sure everyone else stays at the bottom. So it's an endless loop of Crabs in a bucket. Everyone trys to get out but also make sure no one gets out. Horus Heresy was supposed to be a slam dunk. But all chaos rebels wandered off to their own shenanigans. some betrayed their cause. Fall of Cadia was barely a success because Abaddon threw the fortress at the planet after Imperium beat him off after forces of chaos once again started to spread to do their own shenanigans. Khornites went off to save BA from nids so nids dont killsteal them. Basicly the only reason why this husk of an Imperium keeps livin is because Chaos is a power that cripples itself.
Abaddon and Huron are an interesting study in contrasts. On the surface they're both brutal warlords and conquerers, each the undisputed lord of a legion's worth of traitor Astartes who pose terrible threats to the galaxy as a whole. But Abaddon's all about the long game, he's the man destined to tear down the Emperor and His Imperium so he can conquer it for himself, as he feels is his right. A true visionary, in his own awful way. Huron however seems to be a lot more materially concerned and doesn't seem to care as much about the whole Long War business, as much as he is about expanding and ruling his own empire around the Maelstrom. The man holds giant festivals where he gives away entire armies to aspiring champions, all for the sake of his massive ego, for pities' sake. And while Abaddon is the closest thing to royalty among the old traitor legions (relatively speaking of course, many among them hate his guts), Huron is a jumped up Noveau Riche by comparison, held in contempt by a lot of the old guard in the traitor legions, though as much tinged with envy as it is scorn. I'd like to see the dynamic between these two explored further, I feel like there's a lot of fun to be had looking at how these two would go forward interacting with one another, especially given the insanity and mayhem sweeping the galaxy at the moment. Could lead to an interesting shift in the balance of power between them depending on how things turn out...
He only killed Sigismund while wearing terminator armor with Horus' claws and Sigismund was literally aged 1000 years. While Abaddon was basically only a few years (due to warp whateverness) older.
This was back before he was swollen with the power of the chaos gods, and became the wielder of Drachnyen (or however you spell it). Also, terminator armour was arguably a disadvantage in the duel, slowing his movements down. Even so, Sigismund was on the back foot for the entire fight, and only managed to wound Abaddon due to extreme (second only to a primarch) skill and luck.
@@blandedgear9704you said it. Wow people really like to play up that Abaddon never Beat sigusmund in his prime. Abaddon was nowhere near his prime when the two fought.Abandon now would stomp prime Sigmund and it wouldn’t even be close.
I'd like to see Huron just steal one of Abaddons best ships, while just waving and going "You'll remember this day as the day you almost capture Captain Huron Blackheart"
It would be satisfying for Huron to call out abbadon on all his failures before ripping out his hearts with his power claw where sigismund failed in his strikes upon them.
@@theboredguy2107 Oh so Huron is such nerd he like enslaves savants to gather lore about Abaddon's campaigns so he can say "Hey, remember 576 M34? When one of your Warbands failed you noob?"
@@Keram-io8hv he has tons and tons of warbands coming and going from his territory he should have heard endless stories about all potential and real rivals and “politics” in the spheres. Hearing Abbadon failed 12 times, and barely getting a pyrrhic victory the 13th, is gonna be common news in his local sphere.
In the maelstrom Huron: allright gentlemen, thank you for joining me on our pre civil war seminar. You will find our battleplans on chapter 3,as the first 2 is a foreword from traitor astartes. Now,for the worshipers of chaos,we are not going to constantly worship,we have sermons held every few days on weekends. Deal with it. Now,is everyone in agreement on putting abbadon on his ass? Red corsairs:YEAH! Huron:now,if we face abbadon,i want snipers trained to put bullets in him 1st chance given. Aditionaly i want sorcerers ready to bind him,while my honor guard,and our more stealthly inclined marines will go fo the kill. In the warp Tzeench:...holy fuck this man is good. ...why is that a good and surprisingly well thought out plan??
Yes and for 30 odd years we have never ever had to see him prove his might against anyone who might challenge his leadership. Boooooooooooring. "He is just bestest because we said so" - GW
Huron and Abaddon will fuse together. The magma of our soul burns with a mighty flame! Super Ultra Combining: Huron Abaddon!! Do the impossible See the invisible Raw! raw! Fight the power! Touch the untoucheable Break the unbreakable Raw! raw! Fight the power!
This would be a cool direction for the lore, and it would make sense that chaos factions would quarrel rather than always be harmonious buddies all the time - but I don't give the writers credit to ever do anything like this. I get the impression ever lore decision they make is towards everything stacking up against the Imperium, and being the most serious threat it can be for them to deal with. It's generally rare to see any faction be an antagonist to anything other than the Imperium, much less to be one to itself.
The Black Legion numbers remind me of every juvenile delinquent who wears gang colors. The novels have said that Abaddon doesn't really "command their loyalty", but instead they go along for hopes of loot or an opportunity to get something else out of it. He doesn't exercise authoritative control of the whole body, many wouldn't even come of he asked. A lot of his number at more loyal to warband, unit commander, or chaos god.
Given that most of the pre-heresy Sons of Horus were actually recruited from Cthonian gangs, they quite literally are juvenile delinquents upon induction to the Legion.
The High Lords putting the Astral Claws in charge of Maelstrom highly suggests that they are either Imperial Fists or most likely Ultramarine stock. Though them going after White Scars homeworld may, I stress may suggest they are in fact distant White Scar successors. Though I have always felt that Blackheart has been in GW's back pocket should Abaddon prove less than profitable. Now that I think it about it, that makes GW sound like the 4 Chaos Gods themselves.
I mean the truth of the 40k setting, the deepest part of the iceburg, is that we the players and fans are the laughing, thirsting gods for which all present toil and die for the favor of.
I think they chose to hit the White scars, only for soft payback about the Mantis Warriors, that and the White Scars have resources Huron can quickly take and back out when he feels its time, he is DEEPLY aware of how White Scars work due to the Mantis Warriors, being both observant to it, and victim.
Abaddon has too many packs with other warbands as well as daemons. Tho while there are imperial necks to slit dealing with Huron is probably an afterthought, one that may come back to bite him, but still an afterthought.
Abaddon has the support of the demon primarchs and I doubt that huorn would be able to get that...mortarion would smoke Huorn in one of his incense burners, magnus would turn him into a fancy book cover, angron would mash him into smooth Red paste and fulgrim would show Huorn what he hides in the bottom drawer of his nightstand
Abaddon is the chosen of chaos but that is not a secured position. if Huron shows more promise than armlesdon then that can shift. Not to mention the primarchs are not under Abaddons rule. They are the gods catalysts. So if Abaddon can get the gods favour the primarchs will help him....... Which they are not doing.... Angron is just a wave of rage going around where Khorne wants him. Fulgrim is doing his own shit to the point that abaddon is getting angry, Magnus has done fuck all for chaos at all beyond attacking space wolves. Perturabo is an armsdealer that basicly treats Abfailon as a small tier customer. Lorgar is hiding from an angry raven and Mortarion is effectively just doing nurgles will, Which doesnt align with Abaddon, And he is now in naughty corner for disobeying and losing to the Emperor/guilliman and getting nurgles garden burned.
I think "support" is a bit of a stretch. To put it mildly they don't like Abaddon, and they like even less the idea of someone bossing them around. Mortarion didn't obey Nurgle himself and is in big trouble for it, do you think he will be happy serving some human? Fulgrim has the attention span of a 3 year-old child and doesn't concern himself with absolutely anything at all. Angron is completely uncontrollable. Magnus had to be bullied into submission by a black legionnaire Mary Sue. Huron is extremely powerhungry, arrogant, and volatile. He will not allow to be turned into a random commander far below Abaddon. He might not be able to win an full-out war against him, but he can still cripple large amounts of Abaddon's forces and still remain a threat. Not to mention his vast logistics capabilities would be denied to Abaddon.
@@Fullgrym I agree Huron might "lose" but he will not be defeated, he may be forced back, but honestly his true network is unlikely to be ever taken out, and I doubt the Chaos Gods will let it be easy. After-all they get bribed quite well by Huron to ensure he lives, he isn't dumb enough to ask for more when it comes to Abby the Softie, whom he can just avoid true combat with, and instead make a "Fuck me over, and I screw you over." which suits their bosses quite fine. More blood, more passion, more treachery, and more death. the gods get their due and won't let the farm end.
Alright, this whole scuffle could end three ways: 1. Abaddon kills Huron and GW kills yet another bloved Chaos character for the sake of the plot. 2. Huron kills Abaddon and takes control of the greatest Chaos force in the Galaxy (but it's _very_ unlikely to happen). 3. Abaddon defeats and shames Huron to keep him at his side as an underling. A tactically sound choice, and quite plausible given Abaddon's respect for strength and warrior's honor. This would actually improve Abaddon's character in my eyes.
Haven't the White Scars stalled the advance of the Red Corsairs? If a single chapter of the sons of the Khagan have stopped the Corsairs, what hope does Huron have against the warmaster?
You say that..... but Fall of Cadia was nearly prevented mostly by the guard....So Abaddon isnt so high and mighty either. Arks of Omen dont really count because they are spread to all chaos warbands not just Black legion.
@@_NutcasE_ It well could be that GW doesn't care to advance that storyline so the campaign has stalled, but for whatever reason Huron will need some more time in the spotlight to truly have a shot a abandon
@@MAHORAGADAOPPSTOPPA and? Its a singular imperial world. And abaddon attacked it with all he had. A singular guard world stood against multiple chaos legions and nearly won. This is no Macragge and after winning tightly by throwing a blackstone fortress away this knothead goes "hey maybe we can take ultramar!"
I’m sort of coin-flipping on either faction maintaining such a massive growth. Given that the Black Legion has and assumedly continues to draw on recruits via subordinating other warbands and alliances with the remaining Traitor Legions to supplement their numbers where the Red Corsairs draw more from Renegade Chapters, defectors from other warbands and geneseed theft. I can certainly buy the Red Corsairs having superior genestock considering the purity of geneseed they have access to, alongside their own having less long-term corruption having spent less than 2,000 years in and around the Maelstrom compared to the 10,000 years spent in the Eye of Terror, but I don’t really buy their numbers growing so exponentially solely on the basis of defection and suborning Renegade Chapters.
That said I do agree that the Red Corsairs hold a strategic and tactical advantage in comparison owing to the general lack of discipline in the Black Legion. Abaddon typically directs subordinate warbands and companies to a front and let’s them handle it. Whether or not they follow their orders either to the letter or to the spirit is uncommon.
Imagine the interactions between these two... "So, Huron. The former tyrant of badab. You lead the astral claws under the imperium, right?" "Ay. And now i fight against it." "I heard vague rumors about the badab war. What is your story?" "I was denied additional forces for a crusade into the maelstrom by the adeptus administratum. When i then denied them the tithes, they laid siege to my bastion. The only reward for loyalty is indeed betrayal..." "Huron... do you mean to tell me you joined the dark powers because you committed tax evasion?" "We live in a society, Abaddon! I refuse to believe anything else!" I am making more out of this!
This actually seems like an amazing premise for a new Crusade book. Huron gets whispers from his familiar that Abaddon's collaboration with Vashtorr has harmed his favor with the Gods, and so Huron gets the idea that the position of Warmaster is up for grabs, so now they duke it out, and all the other Chaos Legions get to have a big brawling jamboree that's different from their typical infighting born from the Great Game. Maybe Vashtorr being tied up in the Pariah Nexus could justify why the Red Corsairs have more of an edge.
To witness these two forces combat one another would be interesting, to what levels would they devolve into. Even more so if the Orks have any say about it
Dont underestimate Huron. He showed himself to be quite capable during the Badab War. I also wonder if Abbadon would take a conflict with Huron seriously enough to fully mobilize his full strength. I also see Huron as being the instigator in such a conflict and would have a plan of action for it.
I'd honestly like to see a conversation between Guilliman and Huron. Considering how G was treated on his return, i could see an offer of forgiveness and bringing back to the fold. Huron is kinda like G anyway considering how he was conducting himself before his own fall.
I'm waiting for the point at the height of the battle where Huron shouts a one liner about being harmless, and abbadons whole arm and power claw just FUCKING FALLS OF NO MATTER HOW DEEP I PINNED IT OR HARD I GLUED IT... Sorry, think I had a flashback for a second then, what was I saying?
I know you've been dying to do this one Rem! Huron is definitely more interesting compared to Abaddon and definitely more fun but you absolutely nailed the comparisons between the two. I'd love to see this conflict become a reality but I'm sure GW won't move on it. #TeamHuron 🤘
...Huron doesn't need plott armor to be capable ( even Night Lords were able to work with him to great effect). Abbadon is also more careless in terms of losses, & that doesn't do much for the loyalty of one's forces.
abaddon is clearly not thinking or planning while hurons biggest threat is he is planning ahead thinking and plotting how to win with few losses and uses allies competently
@@dualityomk9854 Sorry the writing hasn't made up for 35 years of corporate marketing saying we have to show the facists as the never losing good guys for you.
I think it'd break the setting if there was a showdown and they calmly negotiate that Abaddon head toward Terra while Huron wrecks face elsewhere. Would love to see Huron unlock the blackstone fortress, be the ex machina that saves Guilliman somehow, then leave as the news filters through to G-man that terra has fallen.
I think, a war for the titel of warmaster would be a bit refreshing. I was never a big fan of failbaddon, mainly because the fantasy "equivalent" has shown more than enough how its done, and because i cant quite ignore the fact that Abby is still only a space marine, buffed up by all chaos gods. Now imagine one of the unaligned primarchs getting that treatment. Technically they already are buffed by becoming demon princes, but come on man, they are or should be way more competent in every way, even before demonhood and everything. So still, even after reading all the lore about it, i still dont get why he is the warmaster.
The black Legion has a larger force compared to the red corsairs, as stated in Blood Reaver, Talos stated to Huron that his forces are comparable or 2nd to the black Legion.
It would really depend on which could rally the most marines behind himself. We know that all the original traitor legions would fall in behind Abaddon. And having just the iron warriors and death guard alone would definitely tip the scales towards Abaddon. As well as Abaddon is now working with Vashtor. As much as i hate him, i see Abaddon winning
Always felt like Abaddon was an Archaon the Everchosen-wannabe. He's got heavy plot armor, a big fated ultrastrong demon sword, gifts from the gods and stuff. Huron feels like an evil but cunning and selfish bastard that's clever enough to fully use the strengh of OTHER chaos legions not like Abaddon who's like "I am strong and i use MY brute strenght to crush you". I'd frankly prefer to have Huron as leader as i feel we'd see chaos in a way better way, like each legions/warband, used to their fullest being raw violence, warp power, psychological warfare and stuff.
My issue with giving estimate of a faction's density is that James Workshop absolutely sucks at consistency and will only use numbers that adventages their storytelling. As such, estimating the progress of the raid corsair's size in the future is pointless in my opinion because it's actually impossible to accurately predict
4:40 Huron and his red coursairs are an independent Chaos faction in their own right. 6:17 [Huron Quote] damn he's not loyal to Abadon at all. 16:48 The Hamadria is such a weird demon, is it Chaos Undivided.
I am personally firmly in the Huron camp. Years of effort on GW's part have just shown that they simply can't get us to take Abaddon seriously, and better to then use what weight he has to empower a more favored character in leading Chaos.
Despite being on almost as much life support as The Big E, I feel Huron should replace Failbaddon. I mean he actually knows how to use the Legions to their strengths. Best example being using the Night Lords to use their terror tactics, rather than as Frontline fighters like Failbaddon did.
Honestly it's kinda like that Season 3 episode of The Boondocks. "Hateocracy" there's a line in there that sums up a LOT of Chaos Warbands in a nutshell: "Now we hated each other right away! ...But we hated everyone else even more!" That's basically it. Plus, they both know that they'd be risking a LOT for very little gain. Huron basically said in that quote "Try me, b*tch." Whilst putting a hand on the hilt of his weapon.
Legion size could mean anything from the under 10k pf the Emperor's Children/Thousand Sons, to the hundred k and up of the Ultramarines/Word Bearers, I mean the Black Templars have been called legion sized so....
I've always brought up this conflict that I would love to see play out. I feel like Huron is a much better big baddy personally. Even if Abby would come out on top, it would be a great story opportunity & some story growth for the traitors.
Given the years of story stagnantation with exception to the past few editions, finally sidelining Abaddon the disappointing and giving somebody else a kick at the imperium would be a real breath of fresh air. I'm hoping one of the primarchs can get some revenge on Abaddon by snapping him in half and giving somebody else a shot and thats assuming somebody on Chaos's side like Huron dosent usurp him.
I generally like Huron more as a character and I like the overall look of the Red Corsairs, but Abbadon would probably win, mostly because of plot armor.
The real Abaddon and Huron Blackheart died and were replaced by Alpharius and an Alpha Legion Praetor (Omegon is busy playing the part of Roboute Guilliman)... sounds like something they would do.
Can totally see Abaddon dealing a death blow to Huron, leaning in to whisper "Hydra dominatus" only to notice a hydra tattoo behind Huron's ear. Then to everyone's confusion say out loud "The f*ck????"
I dont think they would fight...at least untill Hauron/Abby do something the other TRULEY dosent like. I mean, what if Hauron decides to invade and decimate a world that Abby wanted to use for a specific ritual (as apparently Abby planned for there to be multiple failed black crusades of centuries/millinia) . COnversly, what if Abby sent a rather smirky note to Huron about wanting him to specifically attack this area and Huron did his usuale thing and ignored it agian (IF Abby was actually planning on Huron's success in the attack). I, then, could see this attack happening between each other...BUT....I dont think it would happen over too much real space and may happen, instead, with the warp planets manly.
I would love to see Abbadon be replaced by Huron since Abbadon is a meme do to failing so much... while Huron might have failed, stilled made himself seem competent
A way to make Hurlun close the gap in terms of Astartes would be to focus on short sightedness of many chaos forces.Abbadon plays the long game and everything he does is for the destruction of Imperium but how many of his warriors especially more fresh ones would be more inclined to switch sides to Red Corsairs and their live in the moment for themselves lifestyle
The main strenght of Red Corsaires is Huron's leadership skills and their fleet power. As their name suggest, they are adepts at space combat. The main problem is that they don't have that many astartes. Vast majority of their warband are normal mortals... Black Legion on the other hand is much bigger formation. They posses a Vengeful Spirit, which on it's own has a titanic firepower and their numbers of Black Legionaire astartes are going into thousands. I think that Huron is way too smart to try challange Abbadon into a fight, especially, when they have quite a bit in common - enemies, for example...
If the Red Corsaires and the Black Legion go to war with one another, then neither of them are serious about their Long War. It'd be about the dumbest thing the CSM could do.
I'd add in that the Black Legion has probably suffered huge losses during and after the fall of Cadia... they seem to be fighting all over the place. On the other hand, both seem to have huge numbers of human Auxilia, but the Black Legion seems to control more planets to recruit/coerce from...they also have long lasting alliances with traitor Titan and Knight houses.
A black legion vs red corsairs raider style chaos war between each other while the imperium is busy dealing with different xenos threats would be awesome.
Red corsages ftw
Fabius finna steal win
Abaddons vs Huron vs Octarius Tyranids
GUILLOMAN FORCES VS necrons vs Pacificus Tyranids
Lion vs other chaos forces vs orks/Ghazghull armada
That is only the best thing I’ve heard in a while
Maybe we could get a skull harvest champ model, or a hunt master model
I'd like to see a brief conflict between the two, just to show how awesome Huron is and to let the GW writers actually show why Abaddon is in charge.
Nah Huron is a beast and to top it off he has a good reason for betraying the imperium
Abbadon has bullshit tier plot armour.
But yes , Huron is the better character
It's likely Huron would just die for the sake of Abaddon's plot armor. Unless ADB writes this story. :/
As long as Huron gets a new model to go along with the story I don’t mind, lol
So long as the black legion dont ask the Red corsairs to pay taxes im sure they will get along
Taxes are theft
Its funny how the badab war only started because taxes kinda like irl with American revolution
😅
Violent Libertarians!
oh god, now I'm imagining Huron waving a Gadsen flag and screaming "TAXATION IS THEFT! I DO NOT CONSENT! I AM A SOVEREIGN CITIZEN OF CHAOS!"
I love the idea of a chaos civil war if it includes a loyalist primarch coming out the warp with a prevervbial steel chair.
lmao
"AND WHATS THIS ?? ITS KHAN COMING DOWN FROM THE TOP ROPE!"
The chaos gods: "You can do this Huorn my boy"....A few moments later at the bookmaker.."All souls on Abaddon!"
Reminder from the Badab War, the Astral Claws were adept at playing with geneseed. So not impossible that they have managed to maintain a relatively pure reserve and growing it further with raids. During the Badab War they, from casualty reports, numbered over 6000 marines, built up over the span of just a few centuries, while not arousing suspiscions for multiple of those.
as I recall, in Huron's book they mention the struggles with maintaining geneseed -- this makes sense as they would have lost most of it in the Badab War and then living in a warp rift would make keeping it pure would make it that much harder to maintain.
Don't forget about the fall of Vilamus where they got all the gene seed of the Marines errant.
In terms of ship numbers, the Red Corsairs are reported to surpass any other chaos warband/legion. I would imagine in a space battle the Red Corsairs would have an edge, not just in numbers but experience as well. The Black Legion meanwhile would have an edge in the number of Astartes (not to mention all the other warbands they've essentially vassalized) they could deploy. Abaddon would likely want to either ambush the Red Corsairs (and overwhelm with boarding actions) or force them into a conflict planet side where he could grind them down.
The Vengeful Spirit alone would likely smoke the corsair's fleet
@@garlicbumsnatch8454 not to mention other flagships of the primarchs and the primarchs themselves
In the second black legion book, the vengeful spirit is seen to be able to duel the entire black templar fleet singlehandedly. Unless the red corsairs also have a gloriana class, their fleet is beaten easily.
While I like the red corsairs, with their current numbers and equipment, they stand literally no chance.
@DarthAxolotl I'm lacking context. How big was the Black Templar fleet? Because if it was a large fleet, not gonna lie, that's really dumb. I get that a lot of things in 40k are silly and power scaling is incredibly inconsistent but that's pretty silly
For example, Guilliman destroyed an Abyss class battleship and was putting the hurt pretty substantially on the Conquerer with smaller ships he managed to scrape together after the battle of Calth and mosquito tactics. There's no reason that a fleet couldn't handle one ship unless they were understrength, poorly led (which I doubt unless the BTs kept trying to get into melee with it), or just crazy Warp shenanigans going on at the same time that put the advantage on Chao's side
The vassal Warbands might turn out to be more of a liability than a boon in a war against a major Rival to the warmaster. They are barely reliable alllies, when fighting the imperium. Honestly i doubt the traitor Primarchs would help him with this. Most of them hate Abaddon with a passion and would love to ally with the red corsairs for the chance to break his control of the eye of terror. The rest simply wouldnt help him for anything short of a black crusade. The petty warbands might simply be bribed and the pockets of the corsairs are ought to be deep.
The simplest solution for the Imperium is to tell Ghazghull that Yarricks killer is amongst those two warbands. That would make one hell of a scrap.
hurons rise was because of orks to begin w
im sure he would absolutely not fuck around w them and wouldn’t even give them a chance
Kinda curious if either of them are gonna try to deal with the nids. Cause I doubt Abby is gonna take the idea of the bugs denying him his vengance and crown well.
I said as much in another thread. The Nids are existential threat to Chaos. I'd like to see Abby send Perty to hit the bugs. I had a lot to say about Perty's return but the short version here is that his style of fighting would be well suited to bug smashing. He loves massive firepower, heavy armor and he loves wars of attrition. Also, unless he's changed dramatically since the Heresy, he never used much in the war of warp powers in his army. Iron is his god of choice.
@@Elthenar So Perty has solved the riddle of steel?
@@gasmonkey1000 Perty is the answer to the riddle of steel.
@@ElthenarSounds like a perty fanboy.
GW obviously won't use perty as the bug smasher, they'll use Vashtor to do so.
@@Benthesniperof8 *Has flashbacks to all the battle reports where Vashtor got his shit ran by Admech despite the Admech's shitty rules.*
Maybe not Vashtor
If there is no plot armor involved then my money is on the Corsairs for one reason. In the Night Lords stories they were used by both sides. Abaddon used them as grunts and nothing else while Huron utilized them as they were designed to be. Infiltration terror units.
Abaddon doesn't care if Night Lords die. Huron cares if his expensive mercenaries do their job. Abaddon has his own favored terror and infiltration troops, the Warband of Talos aren't even his allies in name. If they mattered to his plans Abaddon would've wielded them effectively
Huron is a man who can come back from nothing and with his pact with the Dark Powers grant him strength above strength. As long as he keeps delivering and and never gives in I believe he will forever fight on until his death. I can see him ascending as a true champion of Chaos Undivided.
Blackheart was known in Badab for hiding his strengths, tiger claws into astral claws anyone, and this strategy probably deepened in his fall to chaos. Any projections of the red corsair's strength I will conservatively add 30% to that.
The Night Lords wanting desperately to smash the little familiar skittering along Huron's back was a great part of the trilogy.
As much as these two may hate each other, they are technically allies. I doubt either one would be foolish enough to start a war with the other until after their common enemies are dealt with.
Perhaps not, but it's always fun to speculate. Especially with Huron's comments regarding how a Warmaster can fall again.
Yeah allies never turn on each other especially not chaos :X never happens
Sanity is for the weak!
More blood for the Blood God!
Start? No, but if it happened, they'd be pushed into it to prove themselves the dominant force.
I'd put my money to Huron in a military conflict, Abbadon is too prone to rash and wasteful decisions if he isn't winning a fight.
It's Chaos, logical decision making is not a specialty.
To be honest it's unlikely these two fight one another as long as Imperium still strong, they can't afford to be weakened while Imperium seeks to wipe them out .
would be a sound argument. But this is chaos. The only reason why imperium fends them off for 10k years IS because they fight among eachother at the least ideal times. Every moment of every operation there is someone looking up to gain their gods favour or to grab power. Like Chaos gods and their great game. You want to be at the top but at the same time you need to make sure everyone else stays at the bottom. So it's an endless loop of Crabs in a bucket. Everyone trys to get out but also make sure no one gets out. Horus Heresy was supposed to be a slam dunk. But all chaos rebels wandered off to their own shenanigans. some betrayed their cause. Fall of Cadia was barely a success because Abaddon threw the fortress at the planet after Imperium beat him off after forces of chaos once again started to spread to do their own shenanigans. Khornites went off to save BA from nids so nids dont killsteal them. Basicly the only reason why this husk of an Imperium keeps livin is because Chaos is a power that cripples itself.
Abaddon and Huron are an interesting study in contrasts. On the surface they're both brutal warlords and conquerers, each the undisputed lord of a legion's worth of traitor Astartes who pose terrible threats to the galaxy as a whole. But Abaddon's all about the long game, he's the man destined to tear down the Emperor and His Imperium so he can conquer it for himself, as he feels is his right. A true visionary, in his own awful way. Huron however seems to be a lot more materially concerned and doesn't seem to care as much about the whole Long War business, as much as he is about expanding and ruling his own empire around the Maelstrom. The man holds giant festivals where he gives away entire armies to aspiring champions, all for the sake of his massive ego, for pities' sake. And while Abaddon is the closest thing to royalty among the old traitor legions (relatively speaking of course, many among them hate his guts), Huron is a jumped up Noveau Riche by comparison, held in contempt by a lot of the old guard in the traitor legions, though as much tinged with envy as it is scorn. I'd like to see the dynamic between these two explored further, I feel like there's a lot of fun to be had looking at how these two would go forward interacting with one another, especially given the insanity and mayhem sweeping the galaxy at the moment. Could lead to an interesting shift in the balance of power between them depending on how things turn out...
The Red Corsairs have amazing leadership in organisation, cohesion and tactics. It's no wonder many flock to their banners, success breeds success.
He only killed Sigismund while wearing terminator armor with Horus' claws and Sigismund was literally aged 1000 years. While Abaddon was basically only a few years (due to warp whateverness) older.
This was back before he was swollen with the power of the chaos gods, and became the wielder of Drachnyen (or however you spell it).
Also, terminator armour was arguably a disadvantage in the duel, slowing his movements down. Even so, Sigismund was on the back foot for the entire fight, and only managed to wound Abaddon due to extreme (second only to a primarch) skill and luck.
@blandedgear9704 Abbadon when described by Loken is described as being as fast as a regular astartes even with terminator armour on
Loyalist cope
@@jakehughes6087 "even with terminator plate on" - ie he would have been more fast without it
@@blandedgear9704you said it. Wow people really like to play up that Abaddon never Beat sigusmund in his prime. Abaddon was nowhere near his prime when the two fought.Abandon now would stomp prime Sigmund and it wouldn’t even be close.
I'd like to see Huron just steal one of Abaddons best ships, while just waving and going "You'll remember this day as the day you almost capture Captain Huron Blackheart"
And then get obliterated by the Planet Killer
I am glad to hear your voice once more! Huron will always be more interesting to me than Abby, he just has too much plot armor
Abby shit and Huron will dumpster Abby in voidwar hands down
Love it! It's like and old school 40k theories!! We want more!!
It would be satisfying for Huron to call out abbadon on all his failures before ripping out his hearts with his power claw where sigismund failed in his strikes upon them.
Call out Abaddon on all his failures? Oh yeah, you still believe that Black Crusades were for Terra right?
@@Keram-io8hv as far as anyone us concerned, its not like CSM respect each other.
@@theboredguy2107 Oh so Huron is such nerd he like enslaves savants to gather lore about Abaddon's campaigns so he can say "Hey, remember 576 M34? When one of your Warbands failed you noob?"
@@Keram-io8hv he has tons and tons of warbands coming and going from his territory he should have heard endless stories about all potential and real rivals and “politics” in the spheres. Hearing Abbadon failed 12 times, and barely getting a pyrrhic victory the 13th, is gonna be common news in his local sphere.
In the maelstrom
Huron: allright gentlemen, thank you for joining me on our pre civil war seminar. You will find our battleplans on chapter 3,as the first 2 is a foreword from traitor astartes. Now,for the worshipers of chaos,we are not going to constantly worship,we have sermons held every few days on weekends. Deal with it. Now,is everyone in agreement on putting abbadon on his ass?
Red corsairs:YEAH!
Huron:now,if we face abbadon,i want snipers trained to put bullets in him 1st chance given. Aditionaly i want sorcerers ready to bind him,while my honor guard,and our more stealthly inclined marines will go fo the kill.
In the warp
Tzeench:...holy fuck this man is good. ...why is that a good and surprisingly well thought out plan??
Is the Ultramarine Geneseed😉😁.
Korn: i really wanted rowboat
Samoa Joe?! Wow! Didn't see that coming. I knew he was a gamer, but didn't know he was into 40k.
I'm amazed that that's Samoa Joe's voice right there.
Personally I would love to see a Chaos civil war. It would shake the setting up and I would love to see some of the Traitor Legions pick sides.
Abaddon keeps forgetting his title is based off might, he has to actually stay above and beyond to be the Leader.
Yes and for 30 odd years we have never ever had to see him prove his might against anyone who might challenge his leadership. Boooooooooooring. "He is just bestest because we said so" - GW
@@samhobbs9116If anything, You think Chaos would make good generals as getting your soul tentacled is a good work motivation.
@@samhobbs9116The only time we saw something is in Black Legion book where a Death Guard was rivaling his claim as Chaos Warlord.
@AAhmou OK so 1 time. Should be every week.
Abby got his ass handed to him by an elf wizard
Huron and Abaddon will fuse together.
The magma of our soul burns with a mighty flame! Super Ultra Combining: Huron Abaddon!!
Do the impossible
See the invisible
Raw! raw!
Fight the power!
Touch the untoucheable
Break the unbreakable
Raw! raw!
Fight the power!
wow, I was not expecting to see Gurren Lagann reference! 😂
This would be a cool direction for the lore, and it would make sense that chaos factions would quarrel rather than always be harmonious buddies all the time - but I don't give the writers credit to ever do anything like this. I get the impression ever lore decision they make is towards everything stacking up against the Imperium, and being the most serious threat it can be for them to deal with. It's generally rare to see any faction be an antagonist to anything other than the Imperium, much less to be one to itself.
The intro has improved a lot over the years.
The Black Legion numbers remind me of every juvenile delinquent who wears gang colors.
The novels have said that Abaddon doesn't really "command their loyalty", but instead they go along for hopes of loot or an opportunity to get something else out of it.
He doesn't exercise authoritative control of the whole body, many wouldn't even come of he asked.
A lot of his number at more loyal to warband, unit commander, or chaos god.
Given that most of the pre-heresy Sons of Horus were actually recruited from Cthonian gangs, they quite literally are juvenile delinquents upon induction to the Legion.
@@HaloFTW55, true!!!
Then transformed into a real legion.
Current Black Legion is little more than a marketing ploy.
The High Lords putting the Astral Claws in charge of Maelstrom highly suggests that they are either Imperial Fists or most likely Ultramarine stock. Though them going after White Scars homeworld may, I stress may suggest they are in fact distant White Scar successors. Though I have always felt that Blackheart has been in GW's back pocket should Abaddon prove less than profitable. Now that I think it about it, that makes GW sound like the 4 Chaos Gods themselves.
I mean the truth of the 40k setting, the deepest part of the iceburg, is that we the players and fans are the laughing, thirsting gods for which all present toil and die for the favor of.
I think they chose to hit the White scars, only for soft payback about the Mantis Warriors, that and the White Scars have resources Huron can quickly take and back out when he feels its time, he is DEEPLY aware of how White Scars work due to the Mantis Warriors, being both observant to it, and victim.
Heard something about them either being Dark Angels or Ultramarines
Would be fitting that the Huron the "son of guiliman" (his geneseed) being the arch tratior who rivals Guiliman. Just like Horus to The Emperor
Abaddon has too many packs with other warbands as well as daemons. Tho while there are imperial necks to slit dealing with Huron is probably an afterthought, one that may come back to bite him, but still an afterthought.
I love your line delivery.
Love the new introduction Rem!
Abaddon has the support of the demon primarchs and I doubt that huorn would be able to get that...mortarion would smoke Huorn in one of his incense burners, magnus would turn him into a fancy book cover, angron would mash him into smooth Red paste and fulgrim would show Huorn what he hides in the bottom drawer of his nightstand
Abaddon is the chosen of chaos but that is not a secured position. if Huron shows more promise than armlesdon then that can shift. Not to mention the primarchs are not under Abaddons rule. They are the gods catalysts. So if Abaddon can get the gods favour the primarchs will help him....... Which they are not doing.... Angron is just a wave of rage going around where Khorne wants him. Fulgrim is doing his own shit to the point that abaddon is getting angry, Magnus has done fuck all for chaos at all beyond attacking space wolves. Perturabo is an armsdealer that basicly treats Abfailon as a small tier customer. Lorgar is hiding from an angry raven and Mortarion is effectively just doing nurgles will, Which doesnt align with Abaddon, And he is now in naughty corner for disobeying and losing to the Emperor/guilliman and getting nurgles garden burned.
I think "support" is a bit of a stretch. To put it mildly they don't like Abaddon, and they like even less the idea of someone bossing them around. Mortarion didn't obey Nurgle himself and is in big trouble for it, do you think he will be happy serving some human? Fulgrim has the attention span of a 3 year-old child and doesn't concern himself with absolutely anything at all. Angron is completely uncontrollable. Magnus had to be bullied into submission by a black legionnaire Mary Sue.
Huron is extremely powerhungry, arrogant, and volatile. He will not allow to be turned into a random commander far below Abaddon. He might not be able to win an full-out war against him, but he can still cripple large amounts of Abaddon's forces and still remain a threat. Not to mention his vast logistics capabilities would be denied to Abaddon.
@@Fullgrym I agree Huron might "lose" but he will not be defeated, he may be forced back, but honestly his true network is unlikely to be ever taken out, and I doubt the Chaos Gods will let it be easy. After-all they get bribed quite well by Huron to ensure he lives, he isn't dumb enough to ask for more when it comes to Abby the Softie, whom he can just avoid true combat with, and instead make a "Fuck me over, and I screw you over." which suits their bosses quite fine. More blood, more passion, more treachery, and more death. the gods get their due and won't let the farm end.
Love the new vid & intro!
Glad to see a new vid again!
Alright, this whole scuffle could end three ways:
1. Abaddon kills Huron and GW kills yet another bloved Chaos character for the sake of the plot.
2. Huron kills Abaddon and takes control of the greatest Chaos force in the Galaxy (but it's _very_ unlikely to happen).
3. Abaddon defeats and shames Huron to keep him at his side as an underling. A tactically sound choice, and quite plausible given Abaddon's respect for strength and warrior's honor. This would actually improve Abaddon's character in my eyes.
He already gave him Blackstone Fortress
Haven't the White Scars stalled the advance of the Red Corsairs? If a single chapter of the sons of the Khagan have stopped the Corsairs, what hope does Huron have against the warmaster?
You say that..... but Fall of Cadia was nearly prevented mostly by the guard....So Abaddon isnt so high and mighty either. Arks of Omen dont really count because they are spread to all chaos warbands not just Black legion.
@@_NutcasE_ It well could be that GW doesn't care to advance that storyline so the campaign has stalled, but for whatever reason Huron will need some more time in the spotlight to truly have a shot a abandon
@@_NutcasE_cadia was a necron world and a human fortress world.
@@MAHORAGADAOPPSTOPPA and? Its a singular imperial world. And abaddon attacked it with all he had. A singular guard world stood against multiple chaos legions and nearly won. This is no Macragge and after winning tightly by throwing a blackstone fortress away this knothead goes "hey maybe we can take ultramar!"
Abbadon isn't fast
Two videos in one day. AWESOME!
Two @40kTheories videos in one night? Praise the Emperor!
I’m sort of coin-flipping on either faction maintaining such a massive growth.
Given that the Black Legion has and assumedly continues to draw on recruits via subordinating other warbands and alliances with the remaining Traitor Legions to supplement their numbers where the Red Corsairs draw more from Renegade Chapters, defectors from other warbands and geneseed theft.
I can certainly buy the Red Corsairs having superior genestock considering the purity of geneseed they have access to, alongside their own having less long-term corruption having spent less than 2,000 years in and around the Maelstrom compared to the 10,000 years spent in the Eye of Terror, but I don’t really buy their numbers growing so exponentially solely on the basis of defection and suborning Renegade Chapters.
That said I do agree that the Red Corsairs hold a strategic and tactical advantage in comparison owing to the general lack of discipline in the Black Legion.
Abaddon typically directs subordinate warbands and companies to a front and let’s them handle it. Whether or not they follow their orders either to the letter or to the spirit is uncommon.
Imagine the interactions between these two...
"So, Huron. The former tyrant of badab. You lead the astral claws under the imperium, right?"
"Ay. And now i fight against it."
"I heard vague rumors about the badab war. What is your story?"
"I was denied additional forces for a crusade into the maelstrom by the adeptus administratum. When i then denied them the tithes, they laid siege to my bastion. The only reward for loyalty is indeed betrayal..."
"Huron... do you mean to tell me you joined the dark powers because you committed tax evasion?"
"We live in a society, Abaddon! I refuse to believe anything else!"
I am making more out of this!
This actually seems like an amazing premise for a new Crusade book. Huron gets whispers from his familiar that Abaddon's collaboration with Vashtorr has harmed his favor with the Gods, and so Huron gets the idea that the position of Warmaster is up for grabs, so now they duke it out, and all the other Chaos Legions get to have a big brawling jamboree that's different from their typical infighting born from the Great Game.
Maybe Vashtorr being tied up in the Pariah Nexus could justify why the Red Corsairs have more of an edge.
Abaddon " I want a casualty report!!"
"Dave has a nose bleed sir" lol
To witness these two forces combat one another would be interesting, to what levels would they devolve into. Even more so if the Orks have any say about it
I never thought about this situation but it does makes sense, it's building it self up to a massive Class. Great work as always!
Dont underestimate Huron. He showed himself to be quite capable during the Badab War. I also wonder if Abbadon would take a conflict with Huron seriously enough to fully mobilize his full strength. I also see Huron as being the instigator in such a conflict and would have a plan of action for it.
I'd honestly like to see a conversation between Guilliman and Huron. Considering how G was treated on his return, i could see an offer of forgiveness and bringing back to the fold. Huron is kinda like G anyway considering how he was conducting himself before his own fall.
Plus its very likely he might be his Primarch aswell
@@samrein9919 i remember that bit of rumor as well. Mainly because Huron was a logistical genius as well
I'm waiting for the point at the height of the battle where Huron shouts a one liner about being harmless, and abbadons whole arm and power claw just FUCKING FALLS OF NO MATTER HOW DEEP I PINNED IT OR HARD I GLUED IT...
Sorry, think I had a flashback for a second then, what was I saying?
I know you've been dying to do this one Rem! Huron is definitely more interesting compared to Abaddon and definitely more fun but you absolutely nailed the comparisons between the two. I'd love to see this conflict become a reality but I'm sure GW won't move on it. #TeamHuron 🤘
...Huron doesn't need plott armor to be capable ( even Night Lords were able to work with him to great effect). Abbadon is also more careless in terms of losses, & that doesn't do much for the loyalty of one's forces.
abaddon is clearly not thinking or planning while hurons biggest threat is he is planning ahead thinking and plotting how to win with few losses and uses allies competently
@@karljohan2300Abbadon is thinking and planning long term. Huron only cares for the short term
@@Xynth25after 10000 years that long term plan is lookin more like random tantrums and fuckin off
@@dualityomk9854 Sorry the writing hasn't made up for 35 years of corporate marketing saying we have to show the facists as the never losing good guys for you.
@@Xynth25 well i guess if you take his pathetic black crusades where only like 5 where of actual use and especially th elast one as far planning
Now I want to see Abaddon do maths on how hes gonna win between him and Huron just like Scott Steiner did.
I think it'd break the setting if there was a showdown and they calmly negotiate that Abaddon head toward Terra while Huron wrecks face elsewhere. Would love to see Huron unlock the blackstone fortress, be the ex machina that saves Guilliman somehow, then leave as the news filters through to G-man that terra has fallen.
I imagine a lot of the other chaos forces and their Primarchs would love Abaddon to be embarrassed by Huron.
Tying up Chaos’ forces while the Imperium is having a bad time, seems like a decent way of stalling chaos before 11th Edition.
God imagine how metal the art from their factions fighting would look
I think, a war for the titel of warmaster would be a bit refreshing. I was never a big fan of failbaddon, mainly because the fantasy "equivalent" has shown more than enough how its done, and because i cant quite ignore the fact that Abby is still only a space marine, buffed up by all chaos gods. Now imagine one of the unaligned primarchs getting that treatment. Technically they already are buffed by becoming demon princes, but come on man, they are or should be way more competent in every way, even before demonhood and everything. So still, even after reading all the lore about it, i still dont get why he is the warmaster.
"Fantasy equivalent showed how it is done" do you know Archaon had his way paved by like twelve previous Everchosen?
HURON! HURON! HE'S OUR MAN! IF HE CAN'T DO IT, NO ONE CAN!
probably.
Chaos gods, Gork and Mork, Eldar gods away from Slaaneesh, and The Emperor: Damn Khorne you are a genius to set this fight
The black Legion has a larger force compared to the red corsairs, as stated in Blood Reaver, Talos stated to Huron that his forces are comparable or 2nd to the black Legion.
True but Hurons men are far more loyal than abbadons soldiers
Emperor be Praised! A 40k Theories video.
It would really depend on which could rally the most marines behind himself.
We know that all the original traitor legions would fall in behind Abaddon.
And having just the iron warriors and death guard alone would definitely tip the scales towards Abaddon. As well as Abaddon is now working with Vashtor. As much as i hate him, i see Abaddon winning
New intro music is awesome!
Always felt like Abaddon was an Archaon the Everchosen-wannabe. He's got heavy plot armor, a big fated ultrastrong demon sword, gifts from the gods and stuff. Huron feels like an evil but cunning and selfish bastard that's clever enough to fully use the strengh of OTHER chaos legions not like Abaddon who's like "I am strong and i use MY brute strenght to crush you". I'd frankly prefer to have Huron as leader as i feel we'd see chaos in a way better way, like each legions/warband, used to their fullest being raw violence, warp power, psychological warfare and stuff.
My issue with giving estimate of a faction's density is that James Workshop absolutely sucks at consistency and will only use numbers that adventages their storytelling. As such, estimating the progress of the raid corsair's size in the future is pointless in my opinion because it's actually impossible to accurately predict
It would be nice to see Abaddon get kicked down a peg or two. Especially after what he did to the Nightlords.
Great vid!
4:40 Huron and his red coursairs are an independent Chaos faction in their own right. 6:17 [Huron Quote] damn he's not loyal to Abadon at all. 16:48 The Hamadria is such a weird demon, is it Chaos Undivided.
Awesome, I'm glad we are talking about the Red Corsairs again
Huron: The Tax Evader vs Abaddon the Despoiler
I am personally firmly in the Huron camp. Years of effort on GW's part have just shown that they simply can't get us to take Abaddon seriously, and better to then use what weight he has to empower a more favored character in leading Chaos.
That chaos gate music. Oof 👌🏻 perfect.
Despite being on almost as much life support as The Big E, I feel Huron should replace Failbaddon.
I mean he actually knows how to use the Legions to their strengths. Best example being using the Night Lords to use their terror tactics, rather than as Frontline fighters like Failbaddon did.
First i still need to be convinced that abbadon the armless is actually a threat
Honestly it's kinda like that Season 3 episode of The Boondocks. "Hateocracy" there's a line in there that sums up a LOT of Chaos Warbands in a nutshell:
"Now we hated each other right away! ...But we hated everyone else even more!"
That's basically it. Plus, they both know that they'd be risking a LOT for very little gain. Huron basically said in that quote "Try me, b*tch." Whilst putting a hand on the hilt of his weapon.
"Bested Sigismund" Yes, that's what we'll call Failbaddon's ass kicking vs a 1000 year old slow Sigismund.
An older and far more experienced Sigismund ;)
@@40KTheories An older and far more experienced and much slower and weaker Sigismund who only lost do to plot armor after impaling Failbaddon.
GW does not take lore in logical directions, We thought that there would be a clash between Angron and Ghazghkull as well.
Legion size could mean anything from the under 10k pf the Emperor's Children/Thousand Sons, to the hundred k and up of the Ultramarines/Word Bearers, I mean the Black Templars have been called legion sized so....
I've always brought up this conflict that I would love to see play out. I feel like Huron is a much better big baddy personally. Even if Abby would come out on top, it would be a great story opportunity & some story growth for the traitors.
Whenever Huron has a good idea at the Chaos Meeting: "The intern has a point."
I think the winner would be... Drach'nyen. Because it will probably end up in the hands of whoever comes out on top anyway.
YO THE NEW OPENING! Thats fucking sick. Its a bit weird seeing that instead of the old one, its still epic.
These read like Dr Evil type stories with maniacal laughter and twirling moustaches.
Given the years of story stagnantation with exception to the past few editions, finally sidelining Abaddon the disappointing and giving somebody else a kick at the imperium would be a real breath of fresh air.
I'm hoping one of the primarchs can get some revenge on Abaddon by snapping him in half and giving somebody else a shot and thats assuming somebody on Chaos's side like Huron dosent usurp him.
I generally like Huron more as a character and I like the overall look of the Red Corsairs, but Abbadon would probably win, mostly because of plot armor.
Oooh, like the new music!
The real Abaddon and Huron Blackheart died and were replaced by Alpharius and an Alpha Legion Praetor (Omegon is busy playing the part of Roboute Guilliman)... sounds like something they would do.
Can totally see Abaddon dealing a death blow to Huron, leaning in to whisper "Hydra dominatus" only to notice a hydra tattoo behind Huron's ear. Then to everyone's confusion say out loud "The f*ck????"
I dont think they would fight...at least untill Hauron/Abby do something the other TRULEY dosent like. I mean, what if Hauron decides to invade and decimate a world that Abby wanted to use for a specific ritual (as apparently Abby planned for there to be multiple failed black crusades of centuries/millinia) . COnversly, what if Abby sent a rather smirky note to Huron about wanting him to specifically attack this area and Huron did his usuale thing and ignored it agian (IF Abby was actually planning on Huron's success in the attack). I, then, could see this attack happening between each other...BUT....I dont think it would happen over too much real space and may happen, instead, with the warp planets manly.
Great Video 👍
I would love to see Abbadon be replaced by Huron since Abbadon is a meme do to failing so much... while Huron might have failed, stilled made himself seem competent
The conflict would completely ravage the Sugma system...
... subsector Ligma, segmentum Bofadeez...
🤣🤣🤣
The Battle of Lupercal's Bastards.
If it's Battle of The Bastards, which one's Jon and which one's Ramsey?
@@40KTheoriesHuron is definitely Jon. Abby is a punk azz b like Ramsey 😂
A way to make Hurlun close the gap in terms of Astartes would be to focus on short sightedness of many chaos forces.Abbadon plays the long game and everything he does is for the destruction of Imperium but how many of his warriors especially more fresh ones would be more inclined to switch sides to Red Corsairs and their live in the moment for themselves lifestyle
I thought I remembered the Word Bearers having close to 250,000 legionaires before the heresy.
The main strenght of Red Corsaires is Huron's leadership skills and their fleet power. As their name suggest, they are adepts at space combat.
The main problem is that they don't have that many astartes. Vast majority of their warband are normal mortals...
Black Legion on the other hand is much bigger formation. They posses a Vengeful Spirit, which on it's own has a titanic firepower and their numbers of Black Legionaire astartes are going into thousands. I think that Huron is way too smart to try challange Abbadon into a fight, especially, when they have quite a bit in common - enemies, for example...
If the Red Corsaires and the Black Legion go to war with one another, then neither of them are serious about their Long War. It'd be about the dumbest thing the CSM could do.
Please make a theory about what happen with Ashen Claw in M42 millenium
I'd add in that the Black Legion has probably suffered huge losses during and after the fall of Cadia... they seem to be fighting all over the place. On the other hand, both seem to have huge numbers of human Auxilia, but the Black Legion seems to control more planets to recruit/coerce from...they also have long lasting alliances with traitor Titan and Knight houses.