It is *extremely* important to note that the Shadowseer who was speaking to that Inquisitor is from the Masque of the Dreaming Shadow. The Harlequins who are completely dedicated to hunting Necrons. And how good would it be for them if they convinced the Imperium that the Necrons created the Tyranids that plagued them? The Shadowseer is almost certainly *lying* to the Inquisitor.
I prefer to think that the origin of the tyranid has no former connection to the Milky Way, whether it be the Old Ones or the Necrons or the Outsider C'tan. If every threat to our galaxy can be traced back to our galaxy, including a swarm that has devoured entire galaxies before ours, it just makes the universe as a whole feel smaller and robs the great void beyond of its mystery.
I agree. It's a lot like how in the Star Wars Extended Universe *every* major player ends up somehow linked to the original core characters. It's supposed to create a feeling of connection but ends up just making a grand epic seem small.
Yeah, i prefer the idea that the reason tyranid fleets arrive from all different sides of the galaxy is that they jave already devoured everything outside of the milkyway, and the milkyway is the last galaxy left.
The Big Red Bear why the nids literally eat everything on planets right down to the molten core effectively wiping out the chance for life to regrow, the necrons hate all life and sought to wipe it out additionally the orks or krorks as they were known were created to fight the necrons during the war in heaven and in the current timeline the orks and nids are locked in a stalemate on octavious also I somewhat recall a comment in another video who mentioned that during the first tyranid war the behemoth fleet bypassed a necron tomb world why would they do such a thing unless their creators installed some sort of insurance policy so they wouldn’t turn on them plus the shadow in the warp which renders psychic powers useless
dion jay woollaston its because Tomb Worlds are usually Dead Worlds with little to no biomass to consume for Tyranids, and they need biomass to live and make more Tyranids. The Necrons don't offer any biomass for consumption and are more trouble than they're worth for the Nids to deal with since they have weapons that can kill even Daemons for crying out loud. The way I see it, Tyranids will only engage Necrons when a battle is unavoidable. Your theory is interesting but it seems a little too far fetched, sorry.
Dantalian The71st aren’t necrons trying to become flesh and bone again? I seem to recall that they have vats in some of their tomb world’s to melt down bodies or something, my memory is sketchy and aside from the trayzene the infinite the necrons are as boring to read about as the tau
While this is fantastic of an idea, i hope the question "who are the tyranids" never gets answered. The tyranid's theme are a powerful, unpredictable, and mysterious force that is the definition of alien. Meant to be natural, but voracious. Not an evil force, or a benevolent savior, but rather a hungry stranger with the power to hunt in a galaxy of war.
Some part of me agrees with you. But if gw intend to reveal it hopefully they do it right Worst case scenario is like the origin of xenomorph. The enigmatic, scary, grissly xenomorph turns out to be created by a derpy maniacal android named david. Asshole
I agree. The Tyranids are The Horror from Beyond the Stars. And they should stay that way. A few hints here and there is fine, even welcome, as it keeps the mystery alive.
I partially agree, because I really want them to be the revenge of the Old Ones. So I really prefer them to not answer at all if the answer is not that one.
The Silent King is an interesting theory. I can't see the Tyranids teaming up with the Necron though. One it's too overpowered a faction and two they seem to represent opposite ends of the spectrum, one life unrestricted in it's evolution, the other unlife
I think it was the old ones. The Old Ones were wise enough to know that the Necrons would kill everything out of spite and leave nothing left of anything they killed. So they devised a controlled burn to wipe the galaxy clean, but not to destroy it. A wave to collect the blueprints and building materials for all life in the galaxy so that hopefully one day, when the Necrons had been dealt with, the Tyranids could be made into the life they had consumed. Or atleast the biomatter and the blueprints for those lifeforms could be used to restore those races back to life. Or perhaps in one spiteful decision, the Old ones sent the first tyranids to the edge of the galaxy to amass an army to consume everything they had built and then that army would come back, big enough to mow down the Necrons. And it's safe to say that if the Imperium of man hadn't gotten in the way, the necrons probably would have.
Hmm.. But the Tyranids effectively neutralizes anything Warp-related in their grasp. It's a massive white noise that disempower the Old Ones war races. Maybe the Nids are created as some sort of Boogeyman by some Necrons so people in the galaxy would start to see them as savior instead of menace, and more likely to accept their rule?
Shame you didn't mention the C'tan called the Outsider. He suffered a different fate than the other C'tan. Driven mad by consuming other C'tan he was trapped whole in an indestructible Dyson sphere prison and launched into the void between galaxies by the necrons. The Tyranids are the Outsider's creation. The Tyranids are his vengeance. The Tyranids are the Outsider for he is the hive mind.
Yes, it may well be he that the Farseer spoke of, ruling a kingdom of madness instead of flesh... _Even of metallic flesh,_ for the Outsider feeds once more on the stars.
I think that all of this should remain unknown. One of the coolest things about the Tyranids IS the aura of mystique. Having them be biological weapons made by Old Ones, Necrons or Zoats kind of strips away the aura of mystery and unknowable horror from a truly alien threat.
I thought this about the Necrons too.. I liked how they were this silent, cold and calculating wave of death, in contrast to this bestial, hungry wave of death seen in the Tyranids. It really doubled down on the sense of grimdark for me. When they got turned into space tomb kings it got kinda lame Hopefully nids stay a mystery
Agreed, in fact I have tried digging into zoats in the old 2nd ed codex but have not found a trace. I simply say they “maybe” where slaves to nids and escaped, but I can just see them being refugees fleeing the Great Devourers attack
I like the idea of them having a purpose. Nature doesn't generate creatures that can destroy nature Itself, everything is just a small part of a bigger machine. The Tyranids would be the equivalent of building a very delicate engine WITH A CHAINSAW. So I prefer that they are a superweapon, more like the Reapers from ME, than simply an evolutionary mistake. Also, know that they were built can also bring up a history about them having their creators as their first victims, and If they were truly the Old Ones It would be very ironic, since they saw themselves as superior beings, but would have cause their own extinction while trying to fix their mistakes on the milky way. Or simply bring the Old Ones back for revenge. The possibilities are many, and they would all be awesome in a scenario in wich the galaxy defeated the ruinous powers of Chaos (the next chapter of Warhammer).
There are two other possibilities as to who might have created the Tyranids. One is simply some species we do not know, and have not seen in the Milky Way Galaxy. Whether they lost control of and were destroyed by the Tyranids themselves, or went extinct from some other reason while leaving the Tyranids behind, or even still exist in some distant galaxy and sent the Tyranids away, the arrival of the Hive Fleets may be the only sign of their existence to reach the Milky Way. The final possibility is that Tyranids, in a sense, created themselves. That there was once a more conventional species, using more conventional technology (though obviously advanced biotechnology), who for some reason transformed themselves into the Tyranids we know today, like the Necrons but using biotechnology instead of living metal. Perhaps, like it did for the Necrons, something went wrong in the process and most of them lost their intellects and were reduced to ravening beasts driven only by hunger. Or perhaps it went exactly as planned and the consciousness of that original race lives on in the Norn-Queens, continuing to enact whatever plan drove them to assume such a form.
I’d like to throw a theory into the mix the tyranids are the vanguard force of a empire from another galaxy they send in the the nids to soften up the galaxy they are going to before they strike with the rest of their forces
I'd think it was the Old Ones who would make the Tyranids. Think about it, the old ones release the Tyranids, they eat everything, thus storing the biological matter and the DNA so that those lifeforms can eventually be remade and brought back. Kind of like in Jurrasic park, using the blood of a dinosaur that was drank by a mosquito. Yes ik that Jurrasic park is bullshit, but so are the tyranids. The Necrons would kill everything and leave nothing left, the Old Ones knew this, so they made the Tyranids to collect and store all biological matter so that the necrons couldn't wipe it out. Or perhaps the Old Ones in one spiteful decision, made the tyranids and dispersed them at the far end of the very edge of the galaxy and sent them out to amass an army to one day challenge the Necrons. I dont think the Silent King made the Tyranids. And if GW does decide to make that cannon then I'm going to be so extremely dissapointed.
Dr. Medic I viewed it as tyrannids are to suppress the growing psycher numbers and the rising power of Chaos gods since Nids naturally suppress the warp and can even weaken the energies of daemons. Since pyschers created or evolved naturally were the source of malevolent energies that gave birth to the chaos gods. But I do agree that they act as an army to counter the necrons, both evolve at exponential rates with one biologically evolving its physical,psychic powers, and intelligence while the necrons evolve mechanically (peak of machinery) their physical attributes, intelligence, and anti warp weaponry (the pylons they created that suppress massive amounts of warp energies, Cadia for example). If we think about it, the tyrannids are safeguards gone rouge and maybe the one hive mind that span all tyrannids across galaxies is actually an amalgamation of Old One consciousness that's why they are capable of using some sort of both warp powers and anti warp abilities, and extreme strategic intelligence just like the old ones.
One of the creepiest moments in all of 40k was when it was revealed that the Tyranids could see the Pharos beacon from outside of the galaxy Right in the middle of the Horus Heresy the Tyranids just become aware of life in the Milky Way
I Personally prefer the concept that Tyranids are a result of evolution... as it makes them seem even more terrifying as a concept. But if they were ”made” by someone should it be bh someone not of the milky way... an completely outside force...
I think that the tyranid origins could go one of three ways. The hive mind is actually a massive control signal produced by their creators as a method of pointing the barrel of their very deadly "weapon" at galaxies they plan to colonize afterwards (which might even scarier if the creators intentionally wipe out galaxies of life just to settle dead worlds.). Or the Tyranids were indeed created as a bio weapon for the purpose of a war, but due to the rapidly mutating and evolving strains, they managed to thwart whatever their creators used to control them and turned on them (which kinda gives me a Horizon Zero Dawn end of the world vibe, since they made a self replicating machine army that could use biomass as fuel and then promptly lost control of it by giving it stupid advanced security protocols). Or they did evolve naturally, but then were used by another race and further altered to suit their purpose as a militarized species. I think those three options would be the most intriguing options, but I hope they never fully reveal what happened.
Too many problems with them being a result of evolution though. I'll try to highlight some of the largest in my mind without creating to large a wall of text. 1) Protein chirality. All life on Earth uses left hand proteins, no real reason why other than perhaps the first life just happened to do so. Left handed enzymes cannot break down right handed proteins, and organisms that use left handed proteins cannot utilise right handed amino acids. The fact Tyrannids can devour *everything* indicates they have no preferred protein chirality, which natural selection would work AGAINST as it is an energy and resource sink. 2) Genetic compatibility with everything, need I say more? Maybe, much of the DNA codes for genes, but a huge amount codes for other things (we used to call that stuff Junk DNA back in the day, before we realised much of it actually coded for things). These things are stuff like genetic switches, that switch proteins on and off for example. These switches are as, if not more important than the actual proteins DNA codes for, and this is assuming other organisms that have evolved on other worlds actually USE DNA. They may use something completely different. 3) How did they get into space? There is literally no selective pressure that would explain that on a planet! 4) No organism evolves in a vacuum, if they evolved the predators (if they had any), the prey, and importantly the parasites of the Tyranids would evolve with them. Any world extreme enough to produce a tyranid would be able to produce competitor organisms. Even if none are left, where are the parasites? There are virtually no organisms on Earth that do not have at least one parasite, unless you count Bacteriophages, but many Biologists do not even consider viruses 'life'. Hell, even parasites have parasites! In biology we sometimes call the interelation and counter evolution of predator/prey/parasites the Red Queen Hypothesis, feel free to look it up.... If I were to get into that you would get a literal book! The only conclusion I would be able to come to if I were to be given proof that Tyranids existed, as an Evolutionary Biologist, is literally that these things were created as a self sustaining weapons system by a being or beings that were not particularly worried about the fact there might not be anything left once they were done. From an evolutionary standpoint they make absolutely no sense.
I know im late to this, but while you're not wrong about biology as we understand it, we do not currently understand everything. I mean, within the lore, both the astartes and the kroot have the ability to eat and gain nutrition and information from fallen goes regardless of which direction their amino acids go. Kroot even have the ability to use said genes to shape themselves and their offspring from genetic material gathered in a manner similar to the tyrannids. Kroot evolved naturally as far as we can tell, so is it unimaginable that the tyrannids didn't evolve in such a way as well? That's not even bringing up the fact that this is a fantasy setting, where true to life genetic knowledge doesn't actually exist.
That's what I believe. Tyranids are a bioweapon created by some extragalactic race who lost control of them. I believe these hypothetical creators lost control of them instead of intentionally unleashing them. The explanation is long and complex. If someone invades the space of others without provocation and starts killing everyone there, it's usually done in order to clean the territory from its current inhabitants and take it. There's no lore stating that the species of Milky Way have ever came into conflict with outsiders. And Tyranids are absolutely useless as an autonomous weapon that prepares worlds for colonisation because worlds that have been attacked by them are worthless to colonise - there's nothing valuable. So, a weapon like this isn't made for colonisation. The creators of the Tyranids lost control of them.
A few Old Ones probably escapes the war in heaven by leaving the galaxy. There they created a sweeper race to cleanse the Milky Way, reset it, drive the Chaos Gods into extinction, and leave their ancient enemies, the Necrons, weakened and set up for reconquest
Der Rabbit I always thought of this theory, they were created to make a clean slate, with the genetic informations of all the species they devoured. Once the chaos gods fade away due the lack of sentient life and all life in the galaxy. They can reseed these species again since they stored their genetic informations
But, guys, how would the remaining Old Ones then retake the Miliky Way? You speak as if the Nids can be controlled and that hasnt been confirmed. Unless the OO would be able to tell them to clear off, I don't see how the Nids were their creations. Unless, of course, they were created and the Nids evolved to be a separate consciousness apart from the OO's influence. An experiment gone wrong.
Farseer1995 Well a lot of things aren’t confirmed just speculations, the orks were also their creation and they weren’t able to control them. Given how the tyranids evolves so rapidly they could changed in way to resist the old one’s control over them
To be honest a lot of 40k's own lore is changed and garbled so often, and contradictory in some cases that speculating is almost a headache. In regards to the Silent King theory, it is possible that he had intentionally engineered them to be an enemy dangerous enough to maintain the unity of the other Necron dynasties.
To be honest, the fragmented nature of the lore has the only thing that's a constant. At no point it is stated that any lore details are facts. Either you've misunderstood wh40k or you've forgotten that little key detail.
@@MrGrim you have it backwards, everything is canon but not everything is true is what GW has stated. Also the lore has evolved over the years as there have been changes to how the creators & contributors decided on how parts of the world would work. In 1st ed the Eye of Terror had human colonies in it that would trade with the Imperium when the Eye "blinked", Leman Russ was found by the Space Puppies in M36, & SMs used lasguns & shuriken catapults.
"Lord" hmm "Evil itself coalesced arround him" Chaos gods Hmmm "Fell beings that were mirror-shades of his ambition" Primarchs HMMMM "Driven into everything he encountered, even his own people" Great crusade HMMMMMMM "In secret, he moved beyond the horizon of the world" Webway project HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM "Showed them the shining light of the world" Astronomicon HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Emperor created the tyranids, CONFIRMED
the thing about prophecies like this is: all is up to interpretation, more so when getting flowery. personally I would suspect the C'Tan "The Outsider" would also fit the wording
The Tyranids were created by GW as a clear nod not just to the Xenomorph from the Alien franchise and Heinlein's Bugs, but more broadly to the cosmic horror genre going all the way back to H P Lovecraft. As Lovecraft famously said, 'the oldest and strongest emotion of Mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown' - that is the Tyranids in a nutshell. They are GW's unknown and unknowable monstrous horror from beyond the stars. While a case could be made that Chaos covers the same ground, the Ruinous Powers are more reflections of the negative emotions and moral corruption of sapient species like humanity. Chaos is connected to us, a dark and twisted funhouse mirror reflection of the human condition, but the Tyrnaids are not. Yes, they have the power to corrupt and twist our minds and biology through things like Genestealer Cults, but the Tyranids are not of us, they don't flow from us in any direct regard within the 40K fiction. Thus the Tyranids are by far and away the most truly alien faction in 40K. The whole point is that the Imperium, the Eldar, the Tau - none of the other factions really know anything about the true nature of the Swarm beyond what they can directly observe of its behaviour. Even the Silent King, who has seen something of what the Tyrnaids have done beyond the boundaries of the Milky Way galaxy, is not only refusing to talk about what he has seen, but we have no reason to suppose he understands any more about the ultimate nature, agenda, and origins of the Tyranids than any other character from the 40k fiction. He has seen a bit more of the picture, but that doesn't mean he has seen the whole or has any absolute, objective grasp of what the Tyranids are. There are many conflicting hints and even accounts of the nature or origin of the Tyranids across the totality of the 40K universe lore, and that isn't a mistake on the part of GW in my opinion; I think it is all quite deliberate. Alien monster type creatures and factions like the Tyranids rely heavily on their mystique for their intimidation factor. As Stephen King said, exposition is the enemy of fear, and the more complete and locked down a picture you have of every detail of the origins, capabilities, agenda and motivations of a given monster from fiction, the less frightening it is. Just look at what has befallen the Xenomorph over the course of the Alien movies. It started out as an absolute icon of sci fi horror in the first movie - H.R Geiger's inspired design, Dan O'Bannon's brilliant script, and the directorship of Ridely Scott at the pinnacle of his powers, not to mention the excellent work of the cast and wider crew, combining to condense the veritable stuff of nightmares and commit it to film - but over time its effectiveness was ever further diluted as we learned more and more things about the creature we not only didn't need to know, but that were actively deleterious to its effectiveness as a cinematic monster, until it ultimately wound up the glorified science project of an insane, narcissistic android in Covenant. GW has avoided the same fate befalling the Tyranids by very cleverly never providing a hard and fast, single canonical explanation of what the Tyranids are, where they come from, how and why they came to be, and what they want. Instead, all GW gives you is hints and fragments of possible explanations, often hailing from unreliable characters with their own agendas or possible misunderstandings of what is going on, and that spectrum of possible explanations are often contradictory or outright mutually exclusive, and so the mystique that is so vital to the cosmic horror aspect of the Tyranids is maintained. Is the Swarm the product of natural if extreme evolution, or an engineered biotechnology? A weapon that has outstripped its creators, or some other technology gone catastrophically wrong? Are the Tyranids fleeing a species even deadlier than they are that is hunting them? Are they not just extra-galactic in origin but actually hail from another reality entirely, having stripped whole planes of existence of all life? Do they sweep across this galaxy and countless others at intervals of a couple of billion years at a time consuming most but not all life in an unending cycle of harvesting? Are they the immune system of the universe acting to counter the pollution of reality by Chaos? Were the Tyranids created by the Old Ones or the C'tan as a weapon against the Necrons, or by the Silent King to force the reunification of his people? And where do the Zoats fit into all of this? All these theories and countless more have been hinted at obliquely by GW and argued over by countless fans, but none can be held up as an unambiguous single answer to the question, and so the Tyranids retain that vital fear of the unknown and with it so much of their appeal as a faction. It has been quite brilliantly done when you think about it, and GW deserve credit for sticking to this creative line.
I am pretty sure that such a breach would make for an interesting book. Not only would the Elder mobilise to protect the webway, we might even see the Laughing God, his seers, as well as the Imperium pushing them back. Btw, is the Imperial webway still open in the 41dt millennium? Also, I see Ahriman somewhere there, trying to fight off the Nids, helping the Eldar, with, of course, the ulterior motive to use the turmoil to get into the BL before it's destroyed.
@@jeambeam3173 I know about how deamons spilled into the Webway and the Big E had been unable to close the rift. I was wondering what had happened to the whole "war in the webway" and if humans had managed to at least gain a small foothold there. I have not yet read Master of Mankind.
Wasn't expecting the Zoats to feature so prominently in this. I like to think that those Zoats we saw fighting alongside the 'Nids (assuming GW keeps that canon) were Genestealer hybrids. So the Zoats were fleeing the Nids, but their society was already infiltrated. It would also be cool if this got referenced with a Zoat model coming to the GS codex.
I have an Idea, more an expansion on Remlez Galaxy Reset button theory: The Nids are a galactic reset button but they are more than that, they are tasked to record all the information and complexity of life they find by eating them and preserving the genetic information in case the War in Heaven would be lost. Having the Nids wipe life of the galaxy and record the information is a better future than just have it all destroyed by the Necron. However the Old ones failed to activate the Nids, before disappearing from the galaxy maybe the Necrons captured the Pharaos Beacon before the Old Ones had a chance to activate it of the Old Ones cocluded that the Necron wouldn’t wipe all life of the galaxy (what actually happened) Of course the Nids also won't squander the gene information they find but they use it create new bioforms to aid on their quest. If that is the case, I believe that after they wipe life off the galaxy the Tyranid fleets will coalesced at some point and wait for the impossible return of the Old Ones to remake life on the Galaxy
Honestly the notion of the Tyrannids having a creator that came from within the galaxy really diminishes their horror. Much scarier to think that they are just the standard for life in every galaxy besides the milky way.
My theory is the Silent King altered creatures to try and bring back his people and he found a organism. The result he gave a organism super cancer and left it and moved onto the next galaxy and then the next and then the next. Eventually ‘oh hey that Tyranid creature looks promi… wait this is familiar… I should probably check on that one galaxy’ That’s my theory basically. Not really the issue of it being created but it instead being heavily mutated via the Necron DNA and possible warp energy corruption on an already mutated creature. It at most sped up the creation of the creature and possibly have it the ability to form sentience enough to be aware on a higher level. Now add to the fact that it’s evolution and development had been sped up and already given higher brain function by the Necron DNA meaning it possibly was created very early in its galaxy. Imagine a galaxy where the Tyranids could be in comparison to the Orks of our own galaxy and what that Galaxy would entail if it developed on a more natural order and what else would’ve evolved with the Tyranids naturally? Not really a ‘outside threat’ and not fully a ‘threat from the milky way’ but instead something our intervention did so little as lift it into the termite psychology which has knock on effects of it taking on whatever species would’ve naturally combated the Tyranids. That would make them not much of an outsider threat but a ‘what could’ve been’ of outsider threats.
@@ZivTheWyrd yes but is it still? Also being part of their army doesn't mean they created them. Great observation though. Do you think they created them?
@@MiddleAgedGuy73 nah, they were assimilated but not nommed on. They're a relic of old lore when geedubs was figuring out what they wanted to do with their space locusts. I remember there being a supplemental comic in the early 90's about rogue trader/40k that had some tyranid/eldar/ig/spehss mehreenz in it.
When he described Termagants as being most closely resembling Zoats, I was honestly surprised. Has he not seen a Hive Guard? They look almost IDENTICAL to Zoats, hell, even some of those custom models that were shown while he talked about Tyranid Weapon-forms being grafted to Zoat bodies looked like Hive Guard!
I always wondered if the Nids were a last ditch effort the Old ones attempted, but did not finish prior to the end of the war, and were hidden or released out into the blackness beyond the galaxy to grow. In some ways the nids are almost built to fight against chaos or those things from the warp with how they create the shadow in the warp, which is also quite strange for a race to develop without it being something engineered, also the fact they basically destroy what the warp feeds on in the many races of the material realm. So what if the Old ones started or created the Proto form of the Nids, and then sent it out to other galaxies to grow knowing they were basically done for. When the Nids come back they would wipe the slate clean of the warp an chaos gods fixing something that the Old ones in some regards started, and would be a fitting method of the old ones winning the war. This would also explain how some nids-like life forms are found int he galaxy, but instead of being from tendrils that cam in eons ago, they are just the proto-nid experiments left behind. Also i do believe the Shadow in the warp, as well as a large force of Nids has some effect on warp based beings an things. The other idea I thought would be interesting is if the Nids were a physical form created thru the machinations of a chaos/warp being working thru them, and might be from another warp that exists outside of the 40k galaxy. I dont believe the warp exists or if it does it is quite weak in the areas beyond the galaxies, but a mass of beings like the nids moving thru these areas might be large enough for a warp being to cross between galaxies like the Nids serving as a boat.
I've always held to the idea that 'Nids were in some way created to try and wipe out Chaos. It's not just the Shadow in the Warp, which seems tailor-made to stamp out Chaos locally. Tyranids don't use the Warp to travel, so there's no risk of getting lost in the Warp, or running afoul of Chaos or Warp effects while in-transit. The Hive Mind itself is a highly effective defense against mental corruption of individuals, which is a serious concern for pretty much every other species. The Hive Mind may also protect individual Tyranids against soul corruption as well, simply because individuals don't have one to corrupt. Then, the ability to rapidly evolve, or even control their evolution, may also provide some defense against physical corruption. The Tyranids might be one of very few species that could match Chaos in the numbers department, and with the ability to turn slain foes (and their own) into more weapons and soldiers, in theory their numbers are truly endless as long as they don't never completely lose, and have some time to recuperate. And my personal favorite: The Doom of Malantai from back in the day, seemed to be little more than a destruction engine fueled by souls of its slain enemies. As far as I'm aware, each Daemonic entity has a sort of soul that returns to the Warp if they are slain on the material plane. But what happens if a Tyranid like the Doom gets its proverbial claws on a Daemon? Can the Daemon reconstitute afterwards? If they can't, that's a huge weapon against one of Chaos' primary strengths.
There is a problem with the theory of the nids being created by the old ones to fight chaos. Mainly that in the old ones' times the sea of souls was not anything like the Warp as we know it now. Especially there were no Chaosgods. Khorne is recorded to be the oldest of the 4 brothers. His birth is considered to have been sometime around the middleages. Brought forth by us humans. The war in heaven was ages before that. At that age the sea of souls was a calm ocean compared to the turmoil it is now. And the Old ones were the Masters of the warp. They realy had no reason to develop a weapon against a - at their time - nonexisting threat.
@@TheKaos8 the Enslaver Plague. That's what the Old One's would be making Tyranids to combat. You can't mind control the hive mind, so the Enslavers lose their key method of getting from the Warp to real space. The shadow in the warp blots them out in Warp space, and annihilating all life contributing to the Warp starves the Enslavers still in Warp space. Then the Old Ones just waltz in and rebuild with all that biomass to work with.
Andrew McNally I think that you may be referring to the Slann, which are pretty much described as less powerful and intelligent Old Ones, though looking pretty much the same. But then again "less powerful and intelligent" is real active considering that even the weaker members of the Slann are able to destroy a mountain with but a lazy wave of their hands.
@@dank_smirk2ndchannel200 what's to say that those Slann weren't just Old Ones who were incredibly powerful psykers who jumped through the warp, and landed on the Old World? Destroying a mountain with a wave of the hand does seem like something that Magnus the Red can do.
Andrew McNally if I remember right it’s described that the Slann come to the prehistoric Old World in silver ships and set about terraforming the planet. They first create the Lizardmen in a caste system. Saurus being the military, Kroxigors being the manual labourers, and Skinks being the citizens, part time rulers, and any other jobs like artists, priests, civil engineers, etc. The Old Ones also made the Slann to be the absolute leaders and to execute the Great Plan (which even the modern Slann are confused as to how it should go). All of the Lizardmen, even the Slann, spawn from the pools within the temple cities, however for some reason no Slann have been born past the fifth generation, making every single Slann irreplaceable. In a sense you are correct about them being closely related to the Old Ones, the Slann are not them. They were created in the Old Ones' image as a less powerful successor race. While just casually levelling a mountain with barely an action is quite impressive, the difference between the Slann and the Old One's is astronomical. For the Old Ones were pretty much either true gods, or were ones with the warp itself (depending on whether it’s Fantasy or 40K) whereas the Slann were still biological creatures of flesh and blood. For simplicity's sake think of the Old Ones as true gods and the Slann as very powerful demigods.
This was fascinating. I used to paint the lead miniatures when I was in my teens and played Space Crusade but left it in my 20's although I never stopped admiring the artistry of the painters, illustrators and sculptors. Now 43 my cousin is STILL trying to get me to play but when he talks about it I just wish he'd shut up lol. Great vid mate. Started a new library just for this now :D
Didn’t the silent king work with (I use the term loosely) the blood angels against the Tyranids though? Feel like that would disprove the theory that they are a creation of the Necrons.
Just because he might have created them doesn't mean he is on the same side today. If it was him he probably lost control over them, which in that case was a "oh shit" moment even for a long dead metallic dude.
The description of the Farseer could also fit Malal, the fifth god Of Chaos, lord of hate, entropy and self destruction. Exiled, in the materium, by the other gods ( who crave the lifeform in the Milky way) for his immense power Malal then created a life form that could not be corrupted by Chaos and could even denied it's influence by the Shadow in the Warp. Just a cool theory ;)
The problem with this is that the other Chaos gods would be incentivized to halt the Tyranids at any cost. Obviously, having life stripped from the Milky Way would be bad for the other four. Yet the few times the Tyranids and Chaos interact, they display little desire to engage. This makes sense for the Tyranjds, but not Chaos. Allowing the Tyranids to go about their business unimpeded is contrary.
Finally, a Tyranid creation theory I actually like! I've always hated the idea that they were another creation of the Old Ones, or the Necrons or Eldar or whatever. I was always more a fan of the idea that they were entirely alien to our galaxy and came from someplace else, like maybe Andromeda or another relatively nearby galaxy. But this Zoat theory makes a ton of sense, I'm surprised I never made the connections made in this video. I think my new headcanon is that the Zoats encountered by the Imperium are the few survivors that managed to reach our galaxy ahead of the bulk of the Hive Fleets trying to find someplace safe to set up shop and begin civilization anew. Great video, thanks for the upload!
Yay early for once. It was these damn bugs that got me into 40k at all. Heard from the late Geoff Robinson ( Starcraft 2 Commentator and 40K pro player) mentioning that 'Tryranids come from all over outside the galaxy' . One youtube video later and I am down the rabbit(or Tryanid) hole.
I like the theory of them being made by the Old Ones, to reset the galaxy and start over again. The Old Ones, the supposed original good guys, wanting everything dead for the purpose of restarting it...It fits in 40k perfectly.
I imagine that the Tyranids are kinda like the Skirarii. With Tyranid warriors representing their 'race' much in the same way a Skirarii warrior represents a human.
Did i run out of cookies? cookies are a food or edible that is known to be cooked by the spicies known as humans, initially the answer would apear to be yes, but upon closer inspection some crums can be found, sugesting the notion of more cookies being nearby, wich would not be compleetly outside the realm of posibility. it is however important to mention that me running out of cookies is not, entirely unprecedented. Honestly i love how you speak both ironically and unironically, its very funny but at the same time you always learn something new with how much detail you put in every sentence, great vids man you make my day often
I always took it that the Aeldari seer was lying to the inquisition about the Silent King creating the Nids in order to drive a wedge between the Imperium and Necrons. After all, the Silent King is helping the Blood Angels fight against the Tyranids, and the Aeldari wouldn't stronger ties between their two most bitter enemies after Chaos itself
Not entirely true. The Silent King is using the Blood Angels to fight the Tyranids. The times they fought "together" it's really been the blood angels doing all the work while the necros just slide out the back door.
Personally i subscribe to the idea that they evolved on their own. I feel that the idea of them being some sort of bio weapon gone wrong is A very VERY cliched and B makes them seem Much less intimidating. I think its far more scary to think that they evolved on their own to be the massive threat they are and opens the doorway to so many more mysteries and possible enemies and beings that came into being inside other galaxies. After all seems to me that having a sci-fi story that spans a whole universe is much more interesting than one that is restricted to one galaxy with nothing seeming to happen in the rest of the universe, and if the Tyranids evolved out there on their own. what else could be out there just waiting to be discovered?
No way, there are too many impossibilities for them to have evolved naturally. Even if you turn around and say that, for example, the Norn Queens are the 'original' Tyranids (my personal hypothesis). There is just too much about them that would actually be actively selected AGAINST if they evolved naturally. Their ability to devour all biological life for example suggests they are not concerned about protein chirality (handedness of proteins). All life on Earth utilises left handed proteins, probably only because the first life happened to do so. Being able to deal with both forms of proteins is biologically a HUGE resource and energy sink. We cannot, if we were to go to a planet with right handed proteins we would literally starve to death, as our bodies cannot break down right handed proteins effectively, or use right handed amino acids. And that is only ONE reason. There are others I could go into, but I am betting you do not want to read an Evolutionary Ecology 101 textbook! From mypoint of view, as an Evolutionary and Marine Ecologist, if I were to be informed that something like the Tyranids existed, literally the only conclusion I would be able to come to is that they were indeed created as a somewhat self sustaining weapon by someone or something that was not particularly bothered about the fact there might not be anything left once they were done. Even better evidence for this is they have an inbuilt kill switch... they are actually very intensive when it comes to resource and energy use (they have to be if they can deal with both left and right handed proteins). Once they run out of things to eat they will eventually turn on each other, and wipe themselves out.
@@alganhar1 While i do indeed appreciate the level of detail in your response keep in mind that you are looking at a very Very fictitious universe, of course in all story telling you want there to be balance between fact and story and in this case looking at as extreme and convoluted and Unique universe as 40k I would argue that avoiding cliches can help drive compelling story just as much as adhering to real life ecology. Now when it comes to an in universe argument i would like to point out there is no proof that the tyranids cannot be self sustaining. Yes they do come across as galactic hyper predators BUT if they have indeed inhabited other galaxies there is no evidence against them forming self contained galactic ecosystems. This in an of itself may come across as a bit of a convoluted cop-out but maybe what we see with their invasions is less driven by a "Need" to devour and gain more to sustain themselves but instead more a desire to expand their habitat. Again going with the way they biologically work i will admit it is very Easy to see them as something so insane that a higher intelligence would have created them. But at the same time isn't it far more frightening to think something like this could happen on its own? In a universe large beyond any single humans comprehension isn't it less than impossible that somewhere in the cosmos, especially in a universe as crazy as 40k, that something like the tyranids could have risen to dominate the galactic playing field? Again i do very Very much appreciate all the thought and detail that went into your response, but for 40k if i had to chose between something that made ecological sense and something that made for a more intimidating villain by the narrative i would chose the latter, that's just me though.
I remember reading somewhere that the original plan back in the early days was that Malal had created the tyranids as his forces but then GW lost the rights to Malal ( and then did the whole Malice thing)
I still like having a faction that is just an amoral force of nature and wouldn't want that to be changed, but I do love the trope of the unstoppable invading force actually just being here to grab all the resources and genetic diversity it can carry as it flees from something much, much worse. Also works nicely with another commenter theory, that the tyranids did this to themselves via biological experimentation much like the necrons did with technology - this isn't what they wanted, but they ran out of alternatives.
Here’s a Theory, the proto-nids were a race who had a biologically based technology, that had reached Kardashev level 1. This race was forced to evacuate their home world. As they wandered the star, ostensibly searching for a new home world, the proto-nids would strip planets they encountered of all life to maintain the technology. The resulting Tyranids are what devolved from the original proto-nids.
Everytime i think about the 'Nids i always think if there were previous species that may have fallen victim to their devouring in other galaxies maybe one survived or is rebuilding and trying to hunt them down only to enter a new galaxy filled with multiple huge factions that have been warring longer than they can possibly remember. A new threat that survived and rebuild to avenge their ancestors by exterminating the tyranids and perhaps the rest of the factions the tyranids reside with now. Im kinda hoping for something totally badass but there is also the case that there so many things unknown about the races we do know so adding a totally new one would slow down the progress on other races their lore but im hoping for it one day Note: i dont mean the new race would actually destroy everyone but will just try to like all the other factions
I think the "devourer" mentioned by the Eldar was indeed the C'tan race, seeing how they devoured countless souls and how the silent king showed them the light of the world by giving them bodies and they then developing sentience
The necrons want to destroy life, not create new forms so I don't think it's that. I prefer the idea they just evolved over billions and billions of years, slowly evolving the forms they needed to consume first their own planet and then slowly spreading across their home galaxy, consuming everything and everyone in it until eventually they left the galaxy a empty and lifeless husk and journeying through intergalactic space, eventually picking up the astronomicon beacon and heading to the 40k galaxy. What we have seen so far is just the first few scouts and outriders. An entire galaxy worth of bio form material is on its way to repeat the scenes seen in their home galaxy, it might not even be the only galaxy that they have consumed either. I don't think the old ones created them because they disrupt psykers and block off the warp
@@antoinecharlot3519 the tyranids would be alive though, they eat planets, the races on them are just more biomass. They would never be able to eat all the planets since they are constantly being created.
Time travel. Specimens of Tyranids were accidentally transported back in time billions of years into the past by the Necrons or the Warp for them to evolve into the Hive Mind.
I'm trying to remember the exact description of the Zoats in 40k 1st ed. I seem to recall them being referred to as 'heralds' of the tyrannids. More like a strain of nid, created to integrate into a society, learn about the cultures, then the regular nids come in and wipe them out. Sort of like Brianiac, in the DC universe, they wanted to log everything before they destroy it? I miss the 3rd ed. 40k necrons, where the C'tan were referred to as 'masters of the material universe', meaning, they were like the chaos gods, are in the warp, but in realspace. They'd undoubtedly know not to fight a 'war in heaven (ie, the warp)' again, and would just systematically rip apart the races as they pleased, denying all the warp entities anything to feed on, and ultimately winning. They'd let the nids eat everyone, then just take them apart, atom by atom. The current C'tan are heavily nerfed, which is fine for the the fluff. The nids as the 'arch-nemesis' of 40k, is fine by me. :)
If they say tyranids = old one hive mind, ima lol XD Through uniting all biomass in the universe, we will finally achieve true peace. Where have I heard that?
My two favourite tyranid theories: First is that all the current hive fleets encountered are simply a splinter vanguard of the real fleet that is still on it's way. Now try to comprehend how large that fleet is going to be? The second is the theory that tyranids are not really invading the milky way, but instead fleeing from an even greater menace. Now combine the two, and you truly get to grimdark levels of desperation for mankind.
@@axelNodvon2047 it's a reference to starcraft which has a race called zerg which is fairly similar to tyranids. Where one of the main characters of the campaign is fighting with the zergs' hivemind
Always love more Night Lords artwork. One detail I thought worked to any theory about Tyranids being completely artificial or genetically altered was that they cause the Shadow in the Warp, which seems perfect against Chaos. Also, did not each Hive Fleet enter the galaxy from a different direction, hinting at that the MWG May be the only galaxy left not consumed by the Tyranids, as they surround the galaxy?
I like to think the Tyranids are completely alien to the milky way. They are Lovecraft monster's, who's origins and motivations are beyond the comprehension of us short lived individuals.
I like the idea that the tyranids are a reset and archive for the old ones' experiments. They were outside the galaxy, set to idle until the reset signal was sent. They'd consume all the old ones experiments while archiving the genetic codes.
That excerpt from White Dwarf, regarding the eldar "contact upsilon," supports my theory that the Tyranid race was created by an Old One who fled the galaxy during the War in Heaven. There's equal credence to the fan theory that the Emperor of Mankind is a surviving Old One who is trying to use Humanity to retake the Milky Way for himself. If the Tyranids were created as an extragalactic bio-weapon, that would explain their efficiency, intelligence, and single-minded will. Perhaps they were created to wipe the galaxy clean of life, so that it can start anew, clean from the taint of Chaos (hence the Shadow in the Warp) and free from the upstart races whose War in Heaven lead to the deaths of the Old Ones. The evidence is all there, as are motives. The Old Ones, if they still exist beyond the reaches of this galaxy, have good reason to want the galaxy cleared of life. Perhaps the Tyranids were designed to gather all the galaxy's resources together, so that the Old Ones or some other godlike entity can use all that biomass to shape a galactic empire to their whims, even down to the smallest cell. Or maybe the Tyranids were a science experiment gone wrong, created by the Old Ones to raze the galaxy to the ground, but so effective that they destroyed their masters as well. The open-endedness of the way GW treats the Tyranids is seen as "minimal plot" by the community, but to me, I see it as a source of speculation and debate, which is why I'm in this hobby in the first place. Edit: What if the Zoats *are* the Old Ones? Or, a remnant of them, at least. We know from WHFB and AoS that the Old Ones also created the Lizardmen, and the 3e Necron codex even suggests playing a game of Necrons versus Lizardmen because of this, using the Lizardmen to represent the descendants of the creations of the Old Ones. GW has since tried to retcon this connection between WHFB and 40k, but keep in mind, this was written in official materials a little while before the Zoats became referenced in the 4e and 5e Tyranid codices. Look at the official Zoat artwork from that era, too... Their faces look remarkably similar to the early Lizardmen artwork and models. This is all speculation, of course, but it's an interesting take on the origins of the Tyranid race. If this were true, it wouldn't change anything about the setting at large. The Old Ones would still be extinct, and the Tyranids would still be a threat.
I like to think that the Tyranids function like either necromorphs/flood or the reapers. The old ones were dying out and the War in Heaven fucked the warp up so as a last ditch effort/final middle finger they made organisms to wipe the slate clean, calm the warp, then become a new version of the Old Ones and reseed life so that they can try again.
Original Theory. What if the tyranids were once a human like species who just happened to have a culture that was obsessed with genetic engineering. Think of pre-war BioShock. People were rewriting their DNA to replace basic household items. The pre-war fire power was not about becoming The Human Torch. It was only about replacing the need for a box of matches. So what if there was a race like that which just continued going in that direction to an extreme until over countless generations they become unrecognizable monsters. Which is similar to what probably happened with the Star Trek Borg. One day they come out with a smartphone built into your head at first it's controversial. But given enough time it becomes common place. Then skip ahead a few generations and you have the Borg.
I like to think of the Tyranids as the Doomsday machine from Star Trek TOS. A weapon of last resort from a now extinct race in a different Galaxy. Developed to end a war but once the war was over the weapon could not be turned off. And so it continues doing what it was created to do.
@@TRJenizen tbh i enjoy his way of speaking both ironically and unironically, like its really good to refresh knowledge because he overexplains everything so every video is kind of begginer freindly but at the same time i love how he never says anything directly, its like, Did i run out of cookies? initially the answer would apear to be yes, but upon closer inspection some crums can be found, sugesting the notion of more cookies being nearby, wich would not be compleetly outside the realm of posibility. it is however important to mention that me running out of cookies is not, entirely unprecedented
I can see one argument for the Tyranids being the creation of the Silent King while still working towards his goal. If he created the Tyranids to act as "harvesters" to collect all the biomatter in the universe and "refine" it into a pure form to be manipulated into new bodies for the Necron, and either returned to unify all the Necron dynasties under his banner ahead of the great harvest, or he lost control of them and they now have a taste for living metal as well as biomatter.
John Erlwanger - I pronounce Tyranid similar to how I pronounce tyranny. Like how the planet Tyran is to Tyranid as tyrant is to tyranny. Also the Ciaphas Cain audiobooks are driving my pronunciation as well.
The Tyranids seem to me like the xenomorphs of the Alien franchise. Genetically engineered apex predators to be used as weapons, that their creators lost control of.
I like the idea that they evolved naturally the most. 40k already enjoys making you feel small in the grand scheme of the galaxy as it is, and I feel that it best follows the theme of the grimdark universe that even our galaxy is insignificant in terms of the entire universe. Like, in the 13.8 billion years the universe has been around, it makes sense that events greater than those in the Milky Way have occurred. Events which may have ended with an entire galaxy or multiple galaxies being devoid of life from a seemingly unkillable species.
The tyranids being a product of natural evolution within the Warhammer 40k universe makes perfect sense. No one really bats an eye at all the crazy death worlds within the galaxy, or the fact that psykers are an emergent mutation in all kinds of species - including animals, some of which can use the warp to travel to different worlds: crotalids. In fact, for all we know tyranids might actually be something like the intergalactic norm of where evolution leads whereas the Milky Way Galaxy might be the weird outlier because of the machinations of the Old Ones encouraging the rise of more individualistic species. Perhaps the reason the Hive Mind was attracted to the sudden burst from the beacon is because it is trying to hunt down other emergent hive minds before they can get strong enough to become competition . . . and instead if found a bunch of weird creatures that use technology to accomplish things instead of evolving "properly".
I am an Evolutionary and Marine Biologist, and sorry, but there is absolutely no way Tyranids could naturally evolve, even if you take the view that only one of the bioforms (probably the Norn Queens) are the original form as I do. There are just too many impossibilities, some of them basic biological impossibilities. Which is why I personally ascribe to the view they were created as (mostly) self sustaining weapons by someone or something that was not particularly concerned about the question of if there would be a galaxy or galaxies around once they were done!
@@alganhar1lol okay? Yeah, I agree that in this universe, where your degree and understanding of evolution applies, that a group of species like the Tyranids are impossible. But that literally means nothing in a universe where species can mutant to have contact and beneficial interactions with a parallel dimension of psychically charged energy. Like I get it man, you wanna nerd flex, but come on . . .seriously? You are going to just flatly state, without evidence or even conjecture, how its impossible for a Hive mind species to emerge and eventually start directing its own evolutionary path over millions or potentially billons of years in a universe where literal demons hijack human bodies if they are born with a certain type of mutation? Really?
The fact that those bugs are only capable of sub lightspeed travel and still a threat to anyone is the most unrealistic thing in 40k. And that's saying something.
I like the unknowable element of the Tyranids, their utter alien-ness in conjunction with the apocalyptic threat they pose makes for a compelling and truly terrifying aspect to the 40k universe.
I'm a newbie but what I just kind of assumed was that the Silent King in his self imposed exile made them but it ended up being a Frankenstein's monster situation. He traveled outside the galaxy placing Tyranid seeds so he could have them attack from all over at once rather from a single direction that would more easily be defended. Mortified at what he had done, possibly he realized Necrons would need bodies to transfer into, he hightailed it back to the Milky Way in order to defend the galaxy from his mistake.
Concerning the Zoats and their role as slaves: I like the approach/ idea Luetin stated. He theorised that their talent for diplomacy might have been used in order to ensure that the defences of those peoples first encountered by the Tyranid Hive Fleets were weakened due to the prospect/ promise of friendly "visitors".
My personal theory is theory is that the old one created the Tyranids as a final solution, an ultimate reset button to cleanse the galaxy and stabilize the warp and remove the chaos taint. The tyranids being a hive mind of mindless beasts, they would not create chaos gods, in fact their shadow in the warp is by design, a collective white noise to destroy any conceptual structures of chaos. They would cleanse the galaxy of all living beings and starve the chaos gods and all the other beings in the warp, calming it and returning to the state it originally was; the sea of souls. Once all is eaten, they would starve and die, their biomas collecting and falling to planets or creating new ones to create life anew over millions of years. Maybe mutations would happen, splinter fleets preying upon each other in their starvation, evolution and competition happening until they too died or became something else. Perhaps some of the old ones are hiding out somewhere in some sub dimension or cut of part of the webway, waiting for the galaxy to be cleansed by their perfect biological storm so they can return and start their great work anew, fostering life and bringing up new and better races. Races that can avoid the pitfalls of the previous, improved by the knowledge paid for by the lives of trillions to be gained. There is a a glimmer of hope in the universe, but its a glimmer only to be found after the total inhalation of every being in galaxy. Only in complete destruction can there of hope in the far future.
Your channel is one of the best to have through my cars bluetooth whenever I am goddamn commuting, usually the perfect length, long enough for one or two videos to cover it, easy to listen to but quite interesting. Marry me please
I'm still novice to Warhammer 40k, but I love sci fi world building. This species reminds me of the Chtorr from David Gerrolds 'War Against the Chtorr' series a bit, its a great series I think any Warhammer 40k fan would enjoy.
I really like the idea of the Zoats having created the Tyranids. Makes sense in so many levels imo. Also maybe the Silent King was somehow involved in this but didn't create them. Maybe he met the Zoat and told them about all the Milkey Way and directed them to it or maybe he met the Zoats and instigated them into creating the Tyranids. At least the Zoats making the Tyranids is my Head-Canon now :D
if you look at the milky way map it is surrounded by tyranid swarm fleets ….almost like we are surrounded and the tyranids are the end all by all of the material realm.... I believe the tyranids are a creation but a creation that is probally even bigger than we realize , like a old ones from another galaxy …. just like how our old ones liked to seed life I think other galaxies had there seeders and the tyranids are a product of this and they were TOO perfect and have wiped out many galaxies and have moved all over wide and beyond and that's why on the map we are surrounded
Absolute favourite race/faction in 40K. I personally never want the origin of the Tyranids to be confirmed by GW. Nothing they come up with would be as compelling as the utterly alien threat the Nids represent. But thinking up theories is fun, and I personally want to believe that it's either the Zoats, or another extragalactic race that evolved themselves into a Hivemind. Gotta say though, never would have thought about the Silent King as a possibility.
I have a personal theory that arose because I like both Godzilla and 40K. What if elements of Shin Godzilla were scattered into space in 2K, similar to space Godzilla's origin, and were thrown outside the Galaxy via a warp storm or black hole? Shin Godzilla had the power to constantly mutate into new forms as required and at the end of the movie looked to be evolving humanoid forms in its tail. Maybe the proto-tyranid planet is in one of the Magellanic satellite galaxies and the tyranids evolved there for around 28K years before commencing the ten thousand year journey home. This idea probably contradicts a load of lore and is certainly a confused mix of franchises, but I like the idea of a Shin Godzilla evolved creature being drawn back to Terra.
It is *extremely* important to note that the Shadowseer who was speaking to that Inquisitor is from the Masque of the Dreaming Shadow. The Harlequins who are completely dedicated to hunting Necrons.
And how good would it be for them if they convinced the Imperium that the Necrons created the Tyranids that plagued them?
The Shadowseer is almost certainly *lying* to the Inquisitor.
Underrated comment!
Trust not the Witch.
@@charlesman8722 Or the clown..
Internet Zen Master or elves in general
xenos are certainly lying
I prefer to think that the origin of the tyranid has no former connection to the Milky Way, whether it be the Old Ones or the Necrons or the Outsider C'tan. If every threat to our galaxy can be traced back to our galaxy, including a swarm that has devoured entire galaxies before ours, it just makes the universe as a whole feel smaller and robs the great void beyond of its mystery.
A galaxy is already pretty neat. I'm inclined to believe dey ain't got shit out dare way far but idk nouftin
I agree. It's a lot like how in the Star Wars Extended Universe *every* major player ends up somehow linked to the original core characters. It's supposed to create a feeling of connection but ends up just making a grand epic seem small.
Yeah, i prefer the idea that the reason tyranid fleets arrive from all different sides of the galaxy is that they jave already devoured everything outside of the milkyway, and the milkyway is the last galaxy left.
@@gizmo3846 Bootes Void
That makes sense. it does suggest they were lured here. Deep space deep . Light means food.
Nature creating the Tyranids is the scariest because It just reinforces how absolutely murderous the warhammer 40k universe is.
Thats my favorite theory and as long as we dont get a concrete answer that is what I will continue to believe.
This is 1000x the right take. Making them Necronids or creations of the Old Ones is terrible by contrast.
The Big Red Bear why the nids literally eat everything on planets right down to the molten core effectively wiping out the chance for life to regrow, the necrons hate all life and sought to wipe it out additionally the orks or krorks as they were known were created to fight the necrons during the war in heaven and in the current timeline the orks and nids are locked in a stalemate on octavious also I somewhat recall a comment in another video who mentioned that during the first tyranid war the behemoth fleet bypassed a necron tomb world why would they do such a thing unless their creators installed some sort of insurance policy so they wouldn’t turn on them plus the shadow in the warp which renders psychic powers useless
dion jay woollaston its because Tomb Worlds are usually Dead Worlds with little to no biomass to consume for Tyranids, and they need biomass to live and make more Tyranids. The Necrons don't offer any biomass for consumption and are more trouble than they're worth for the Nids to deal with since they have weapons that can kill even Daemons for crying out loud.
The way I see it, Tyranids will only engage Necrons when a battle is unavoidable. Your theory is interesting but it seems a little too far fetched, sorry.
Dantalian The71st aren’t necrons trying to become flesh and bone again?
I seem to recall that they have vats in some of their tomb world’s to melt down bodies or something, my memory is sketchy and aside from the trayzene the infinite the necrons are as boring to read about as the tau
While this is fantastic of an idea, i hope the question "who are the tyranids" never gets answered. The tyranid's theme are a powerful, unpredictable, and mysterious force that is the definition of alien. Meant to be natural, but voracious. Not an evil force, or a benevolent savior, but rather a hungry stranger with the power to hunt in a galaxy of war.
Some part of me agrees with you. But if gw intend to reveal it hopefully they do it right
Worst case scenario is like the origin of xenomorph.
The enigmatic, scary, grissly xenomorph turns out to be created by a derpy maniacal android named david. Asshole
The Tyranids are the nematodes from spongebob in their fully grown form.
They are just passing by and they are hungry.
Hobo Knight fuck spongebob and never make that comparison to the nids again
I agree. The Tyranids are The Horror from Beyond the Stars. And they should stay that way. A few hints here and there is fine, even welcome, as it keeps the mystery alive.
I partially agree, because I really want them to be the revenge of the Old Ones. So I really prefer them to not answer at all if the answer is not that one.
*Random Ork Warboss:* _"Who gives a zog where dem Bugz came from? Deyz great fer a scrap, an' datz all da mattahs!"_
Oi loik da cu'o hiz jib!
Daz roight! All dem bugz go squish real proppa! An deyz don’t run like a git!
Dere 'eads pop real nice too if ua skweez em 'ard enuf.
Dat'z me Boy!
Internet Zen Master Bur bozz!! None a da bugz ave any kit l!!
The Silent King is an interesting theory. I can't see the Tyranids teaming up with the Necron though. One it's too overpowered a faction and two they seem to represent opposite ends of the spectrum, one life unrestricted in it's evolution, the other unlife
I think it was the old ones.
The Old Ones were wise enough to know that the Necrons would kill everything out of spite and leave nothing left of anything they killed.
So they devised a controlled burn to wipe the galaxy clean, but not to destroy it. A wave to collect the blueprints and building materials for all life in the galaxy so that hopefully one day, when the Necrons had been dealt with, the Tyranids could be made into the life they had consumed.
Or atleast the biomatter and the blueprints for those lifeforms could be used to restore those races back to life.
Or perhaps in one spiteful decision, the Old ones sent the first tyranids to the edge of the galaxy to amass an army to consume everything they had built and then that army would come back, big enough to mow down the Necrons.
And it's safe to say that if the Imperium of man hadn't gotten in the way, the necrons probably would have.
That's the point
Hmm.. But the Tyranids effectively neutralizes anything Warp-related in their grasp. It's a massive white noise that disempower the Old Ones war races.
Maybe the Nids are created as some sort of Boogeyman by some Necrons so people in the galaxy would start to see them as savior instead of menace, and more likely to accept their rule?
Mark, Which is why they need each other. The necron was a lesson for all life to be aware of for eternity. So are the Tyrannids
I think its more likely that they needed a biological reset mechanism to deal with the enslavers...which had evolved to plague like levels
The theory that the Tyranid's might be fleeing an even greater threat is downright terrifying...
Sly Marbo had a pet roach that escaped once and it spawned the nids the rest is history
Sly marbo was carrying an unwanted hitchiker on his luggage on his vacation to tyran
Shame you didn't mention the C'tan called the Outsider. He suffered a different fate than the other C'tan. Driven mad by consuming other C'tan he was trapped whole in an indestructible Dyson sphere prison and launched into the void between galaxies by the necrons. The Tyranids are the Outsider's creation. The Tyranids are his vengeance. The Tyranids are the Outsider for he is the hive mind.
Yes, it may well be he that the Farseer spoke of, ruling a kingdom of madness instead of flesh...
_Even of metallic flesh,_ for the Outsider feeds once more on the stars.
lets make this the top comment so remleiz has to look into this theory
This is more recent lore, in the original story it is hinted that they were created by the old ones
Beat me and 98 others to it.
I believe that he had already covered this theory in an earlier video, if I am not mistaken
I think that all of this should remain unknown. One of the coolest things about the Tyranids IS the aura of mystique. Having them be biological weapons made by Old Ones, Necrons or Zoats kind of strips away the aura of mystery and unknowable horror from a truly alien threat.
I agree with this
I thought this about the Necrons too.. I liked how they were this silent, cold and calculating wave of death, in contrast to this bestial, hungry wave of death seen in the Tyranids. It really doubled down on the sense of grimdark for me. When they got turned into space tomb kings it got kinda lame
Hopefully nids stay a mystery
Agreed, in fact I have tried digging into zoats in the old 2nd ed codex but have not found a trace. I simply say they “maybe” where slaves to nids and escaped, but I can just see them being refugees fleeing the Great Devourers attack
I like the idea of them having a purpose. Nature doesn't generate creatures that can destroy nature Itself, everything is just a small part of a bigger machine. The Tyranids would be the equivalent of building a very delicate engine WITH A CHAINSAW. So I prefer that they are a superweapon, more like the Reapers from ME, than simply an evolutionary mistake.
Also, know that they were built can also bring up a history about them having their creators as their first victims, and If they were truly the Old Ones It would be very ironic, since they saw themselves as superior beings, but would have cause their own extinction while trying to fix their mistakes on the milky way. Or simply bring the Old Ones back for revenge. The possibilities are many, and they would all be awesome in a scenario in wich the galaxy defeated the ruinous powers of Chaos (the next chapter of Warhammer).
@@ahzidaljun Remember: Canon is optional.
There are two other possibilities as to who might have created the Tyranids.
One is simply some species we do not know, and have not seen in the Milky Way Galaxy. Whether they lost control of and were destroyed by the Tyranids themselves, or went extinct from some other reason while leaving the Tyranids behind, or even still exist in some distant galaxy and sent the Tyranids away, the arrival of the Hive Fleets may be the only sign of their existence to reach the Milky Way.
The final possibility is that Tyranids, in a sense, created themselves. That there was once a more conventional species, using more conventional technology (though obviously advanced biotechnology), who for some reason transformed themselves into the Tyranids we know today, like the Necrons but using biotechnology instead of living metal. Perhaps, like it did for the Necrons, something went wrong in the process and most of them lost their intellects and were reduced to ravening beasts driven only by hunger. Or perhaps it went exactly as planned and the consciousness of that original race lives on in the Norn-Queens, continuing to enact whatever plan drove them to assume such a form.
Kinda like the Colicoids from the old Star Wars expanded universe...
I’d like to throw a theory into the mix the tyranids are the vanguard force of a empire from another galaxy they send in the the nids to soften up the galaxy they are going to before they strike with the rest of their forces
There’s an irony that if the Silent King made the Tyranids, they seem to have a habit of trying to kill his best friends, the Blood Angels...
I'd think it was the Old Ones who would make the Tyranids.
Think about it, the old ones release the Tyranids, they eat everything, thus storing the biological matter and the DNA so that those lifeforms can eventually be remade and brought back.
Kind of like in Jurrasic park, using the blood of a dinosaur that was drank by a mosquito.
Yes ik that Jurrasic park is bullshit, but so are the tyranids.
The Necrons would kill everything and leave nothing left, the Old Ones knew this, so they made the Tyranids to collect and store all biological matter so that the necrons couldn't wipe it out.
Or perhaps the Old Ones in one spiteful decision, made the tyranids and dispersed them at the far end of the very edge of the galaxy and sent them out to amass an army to one day challenge the Necrons.
I dont think the Silent King made the Tyranids.
And if GW does decide to make that cannon then I'm going to be so extremely dissapointed.
@@snakeyman5560 cool theory dude
Dr. Medic I viewed it as tyrannids are to suppress the growing psycher numbers and the rising power of Chaos gods since Nids naturally suppress the warp and can even weaken the energies of daemons. Since pyschers created or evolved naturally were the source of malevolent energies that gave birth to the chaos gods. But I do agree that they act as an army to counter the necrons, both evolve at exponential rates with one biologically evolving its physical,psychic powers, and intelligence while the necrons evolve mechanically (peak of machinery) their physical attributes, intelligence, and anti warp weaponry (the pylons they created that suppress massive amounts of warp energies, Cadia for example). If we think about it, the tyrannids are safeguards gone rouge and maybe the one hive mind that span all tyrannids across galaxies is actually an amalgamation of Old One consciousness that's why they are capable of using some sort of both warp powers and anti warp abilities, and extreme strategic intelligence just like the old ones.
One of the creepiest moments in all of 40k was when it was revealed that the Tyranids could see the Pharos beacon from outside of the galaxy
Right in the middle of the Horus Heresy the Tyranids just become aware of life in the Milky Way
"Everything is Canon but not everything is true."
So, who created the Tyranids?
Answer: Yes.
We created the tyranids.
They created themselves
How it began doesn't matter, for they are the end
Perfect field for Joe Baiden to answear this question...
the creators are the friends we made along the way it seems
Not tYranids, tyrAAAAAnids! "Hermoine, Warmaiden of the inquisition"
This makes me deeply happy.
also its Bè-hé-moth, not Beo-moth
The pronunciation errors abound
😅 I rarely laugh out loud, this got me
ABHOR THE WITCH
I Personally prefer the concept that Tyranids are a result of evolution... as it makes them seem even more terrifying as a concept.
But if they were ”made” by someone should it be bh someone not of the milky way... an completely outside force...
I think that the tyranid origins could go one of three ways. The hive mind is actually a massive control signal produced by their creators as a method of pointing the barrel of their very deadly "weapon" at galaxies they plan to colonize afterwards (which might even scarier if the creators intentionally wipe out galaxies of life just to settle dead worlds.). Or the Tyranids were indeed created as a bio weapon for the purpose of a war, but due to the rapidly mutating and evolving strains, they managed to thwart whatever their creators used to control them and turned on them (which kinda gives me a Horizon Zero Dawn end of the world vibe, since they made a self replicating machine army that could use biomass as fuel and then promptly lost control of it by giving it stupid advanced security protocols). Or they did evolve naturally, but then were used by another race and further altered to suit their purpose as a militarized species. I think those three options would be the most intriguing options, but I hope they never fully reveal what happened.
Too many problems with them being a result of evolution though. I'll try to highlight some of the largest in my mind without creating to large a wall of text.
1) Protein chirality. All life on Earth uses left hand proteins, no real reason why other than perhaps the first life just happened to do so. Left handed enzymes cannot break down right handed proteins, and organisms that use left handed proteins cannot utilise right handed amino acids. The fact Tyrannids can devour *everything* indicates they have no preferred protein chirality, which natural selection would work AGAINST as it is an energy and resource sink.
2) Genetic compatibility with everything, need I say more? Maybe, much of the DNA codes for genes, but a huge amount codes for other things (we used to call that stuff Junk DNA back in the day, before we realised much of it actually coded for things). These things are stuff like genetic switches, that switch proteins on and off for example. These switches are as, if not more important than the actual proteins DNA codes for, and this is assuming other organisms that have evolved on other worlds actually USE DNA. They may use something completely different.
3) How did they get into space? There is literally no selective pressure that would explain that on a planet!
4) No organism evolves in a vacuum, if they evolved the predators (if they had any), the prey, and importantly the parasites of the Tyranids would evolve with them. Any world extreme enough to produce a tyranid would be able to produce competitor organisms. Even if none are left, where are the parasites? There are virtually no organisms on Earth that do not have at least one parasite, unless you count Bacteriophages, but many Biologists do not even consider viruses 'life'. Hell, even parasites have parasites! In biology we sometimes call the interelation and counter evolution of predator/prey/parasites the Red Queen Hypothesis, feel free to look it up.... If I were to get into that you would get a literal book!
The only conclusion I would be able to come to if I were to be given proof that Tyranids existed, as an Evolutionary Biologist, is literally that these things were created as a self sustaining weapons system by a being or beings that were not particularly worried about the fact there might not be anything left once they were done. From an evolutionary standpoint they make absolutely no sense.
I know im late to this, but while you're not wrong about biology as we understand it, we do not currently understand everything. I mean, within the lore, both the astartes and the kroot have the ability to eat and gain nutrition and information from fallen goes regardless of which direction their amino acids go. Kroot even have the ability to use said genes to shape themselves and their offspring from genetic material gathered in a manner similar to the tyrannids. Kroot evolved naturally as far as we can tell, so is it unimaginable that the tyrannids didn't evolve in such a way as well? That's not even bringing up the fact that this is a fantasy setting, where true to life genetic knowledge doesn't actually exist.
That's what I believe. Tyranids are a bioweapon created by some extragalactic race who lost control of them.
I believe these hypothetical creators lost control of them instead of intentionally unleashing them. The explanation is long and complex.
If someone invades the space of others without provocation and starts killing everyone there, it's usually done in order to clean the territory from its current inhabitants and take it. There's no lore stating that the species of Milky Way have ever came into conflict with outsiders. And Tyranids are absolutely useless as an autonomous weapon that prepares worlds for colonisation because worlds that have been attacked by them are worthless to colonise - there's nothing valuable.
So, a weapon like this isn't made for colonisation. The creators of the Tyranids lost control of them.
A few Old Ones probably escapes the war in heaven by leaving the galaxy. There they created a sweeper race to cleanse the Milky Way, reset it, drive the Chaos Gods into extinction, and leave their ancient enemies, the Necrons, weakened and set up for reconquest
Der Rabbit I always thought of this theory, they were created to make a clean slate, with the genetic informations of all the species they devoured. Once the chaos gods fade away due the lack of sentient life and all life in the galaxy. They can reseed these species again since they stored their genetic informations
@@axelNodvon2047 But then that would just make them come back as those races develop again.
@@Yusuf-fs4fn leave out key race's
But, guys, how would the remaining Old Ones then retake the Miliky Way? You speak as if the Nids can be controlled and that hasnt been confirmed. Unless the OO would be able to tell them to clear off, I don't see how the Nids were their creations.
Unless, of course, they were created and the Nids evolved to be a separate consciousness apart from the OO's influence. An experiment gone wrong.
Farseer1995 Well a lot of things aren’t confirmed just speculations, the orks were also their creation and they weren’t able to control them. Given how the tyranids evolves so rapidly they could changed in way to resist the old one’s control over them
To be honest a lot of 40k's own lore is changed and garbled so often, and contradictory in some cases that speculating is almost a headache.
In regards to the Silent King theory, it is possible that he had intentionally engineered them to be an enemy dangerous enough to maintain the unity of the other Necron dynasties.
Ok boomer.
@@f34r0r Oldmeme
To be honest, the fragmented nature of the lore has the only thing that's a constant. At no point it is stated that any lore details are facts. Either you've misunderstood wh40k or you've forgotten that little key detail.
I wouldn't say speculated. Everything is true, not everything is canon
@@MrGrim you have it backwards, everything is canon but not everything is true is what GW has stated.
Also the lore has evolved over the years as there have been changes to how the creators & contributors decided on how parts of the world would work. In 1st ed the Eye of Terror had human colonies in it that would trade with the Imperium when the Eye "blinked", Leman Russ was found by the Space Puppies in M36, & SMs used lasguns & shuriken catapults.
"Lord"
hmm
"Evil itself coalesced arround him"
Chaos gods
Hmmm
"Fell beings that were mirror-shades of his ambition"
Primarchs
HMMMM
"Driven into everything he encountered, even his own people"
Great crusade
HMMMMMMM
"In secret, he moved beyond the horizon of the world"
Webway project
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
"Showed them the shining light of the world"
Astronomicon
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Emperor created the tyranids, CONFIRMED
the thing about prophecies like this is: all is up to interpretation, more so when getting flowery.
personally I would suspect the C'Tan "The Outsider" would also fit the wording
@Cegesh
That or all the shiny Stars of the Milky Way Galaxy, as opposed to the vast Void between Galaxies
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM-HERESYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!! BLAM BLAM BLAM.
The Tyranids were created by GW as a clear nod not just to the Xenomorph from the Alien franchise and Heinlein's Bugs, but more broadly to the cosmic horror genre going all the way back to H P Lovecraft. As Lovecraft famously said, 'the oldest and strongest emotion of Mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown' - that is the Tyranids in a nutshell. They are GW's unknown and unknowable monstrous horror from beyond the stars.
While a case could be made that Chaos covers the same ground, the Ruinous Powers are more reflections of the negative emotions and moral corruption of sapient species like humanity. Chaos is connected to us, a dark and twisted funhouse mirror reflection of the human condition, but the Tyrnaids are not. Yes, they have the power to corrupt and twist our minds and biology through things like Genestealer Cults, but the Tyranids are not of us, they don't flow from us in any direct regard within the 40K fiction. Thus the Tyranids are by far and away the most truly alien faction in 40K. The whole point is that the Imperium, the Eldar, the Tau - none of the other factions really know anything about the true nature of the Swarm beyond what they can directly observe of its behaviour. Even the Silent King, who has seen something of what the Tyrnaids have done beyond the boundaries of the Milky Way galaxy, is not only refusing to talk about what he has seen, but we have no reason to suppose he understands any more about the ultimate nature, agenda, and origins of the Tyranids than any other character from the 40k fiction. He has seen a bit more of the picture, but that doesn't mean he has seen the whole or has any absolute, objective grasp of what the Tyranids are.
There are many conflicting hints and even accounts of the nature or origin of the Tyranids across the totality of the 40K universe lore, and that isn't a mistake on the part of GW in my opinion; I think it is all quite deliberate. Alien monster type creatures and factions like the Tyranids rely heavily on their mystique for their intimidation factor. As Stephen King said, exposition is the enemy of fear, and the more complete and locked down a picture you have of every detail of the origins, capabilities, agenda and motivations of a given monster from fiction, the less frightening it is. Just look at what has befallen the Xenomorph over the course of the Alien movies. It started out as an absolute icon of sci fi horror in the first movie - H.R Geiger's inspired design, Dan O'Bannon's brilliant script, and the directorship of Ridely Scott at the pinnacle of his powers, not to mention the excellent work of the cast and wider crew, combining to condense the veritable stuff of nightmares and commit it to film - but over time its effectiveness was ever further diluted as we learned more and more things about the creature we not only didn't need to know, but that were actively deleterious to its effectiveness as a cinematic monster, until it ultimately wound up the glorified science project of an insane, narcissistic android in Covenant.
GW has avoided the same fate befalling the Tyranids by very cleverly never providing a hard and fast, single canonical explanation of what the Tyranids are, where they come from, how and why they came to be, and what they want. Instead, all GW gives you is hints and fragments of possible explanations, often hailing from unreliable characters with their own agendas or possible misunderstandings of what is going on, and that spectrum of possible explanations are often contradictory or outright mutually exclusive, and so the mystique that is so vital to the cosmic horror aspect of the Tyranids is maintained. Is the Swarm the product of natural if extreme evolution, or an engineered biotechnology? A weapon that has outstripped its creators, or some other technology gone catastrophically wrong? Are the Tyranids fleeing a species even deadlier than they are that is hunting them? Are they not just extra-galactic in origin but actually hail from another reality entirely, having stripped whole planes of existence of all life? Do they sweep across this galaxy and countless others at intervals of a couple of billion years at a time consuming most but not all life in an unending cycle of harvesting? Are they the immune system of the universe acting to counter the pollution of reality by Chaos? Were the Tyranids created by the Old Ones or the C'tan as a weapon against the Necrons, or by the Silent King to force the reunification of his people? And where do the Zoats fit into all of this? All these theories and countless more have been hinted at obliquely by GW and argued over by countless fans, but none can be held up as an unambiguous single answer to the question, and so the Tyranids retain that vital fear of the unknown and with it so much of their appeal as a faction.
It has been quite brilliantly done when you think about it, and GW deserve credit for sticking to this creative line.
God damn....
Did you get your Ph.D. in Tyraniology for this dissertation?
@@Hellheart I am a nerd, I wave my nerd flag high, I make no apologies for it.
@@gregorygreenwood-nimmo4954 lol
I can dig it....
Could you imagine what would happen if tyranids got into the webway
Black library you meen dead library
I am pretty sure that such a breach would make for an interesting book. Not only would the Elder mobilise to protect the webway, we might even see the Laughing God, his seers, as well as the Imperium pushing them back. Btw, is the Imperial webway still open in the 41dt millennium?
Also, I see Ahriman somewhere there, trying to fight off the Nids, helping the Eldar, with, of course, the ulterior motive to use the turmoil to get into the BL before it's destroyed.
The Ynnari would become a lot more powerful, simply because the Eldar would have to combine all of their forces to wipe out the Tyranids.
@@Farseer1995 almost the whole point of the emperor being on the golden throne is to keep the webway closed are u new to 40k?
@@jeambeam3173 I know about how deamons spilled into the Webway and the Big E had been unable to close the rift. I was wondering what had happened to the whole "war in the webway" and if humans had managed to at least gain a small foothold there. I have not yet read Master of Mankind.
Wasn't expecting the Zoats to feature so prominently in this. I like to think that those Zoats we saw fighting alongside the 'Nids (assuming GW keeps that canon) were Genestealer hybrids. So the Zoats were fleeing the Nids, but their society was already infiltrated. It would also be cool if this got referenced with a Zoat model coming to the GS codex.
I have an Idea, more an expansion on Remlez Galaxy Reset button theory: The Nids are a galactic reset button but they are more than that, they are tasked to record all the information and complexity of life they find by eating them and preserving the genetic information in case the War in Heaven would be lost. Having the Nids wipe life of the galaxy and record the information is a better future than just have it all destroyed by the Necron. However the Old ones failed to activate the Nids, before disappearing from the galaxy maybe the Necrons captured the Pharaos Beacon before the Old Ones had a chance to activate it of the Old Ones cocluded that the Necron wouldn’t wipe all life of the galaxy (what actually happened)
Of course the Nids also won't squander the gene information they find but they use it create new bioforms to aid on their quest. If that is the case, I believe that after they wipe life off the galaxy the Tyranid fleets will coalesced at some point and wait for the impossible return of the Old Ones to remake life on the Galaxy
Honestly the notion of the Tyrannids having a creator that came from within the galaxy really diminishes their horror.
Much scarier to think that they are just the standard for life in every galaxy besides the milky way.
My theory is the Silent King altered creatures to try and bring back his people and he found a organism.
The result he gave a organism super cancer and left it and moved onto the next galaxy and then the next and then the next.
Eventually ‘oh hey that Tyranid creature looks promi… wait this is familiar… I should probably check on that one galaxy’
That’s my theory basically.
Not really the issue of it being created but it instead being heavily mutated via the Necron DNA and possible warp energy corruption on an already mutated creature.
It at most sped up the creation of the creature and possibly have it the ability to form sentience enough to be aware on a higher level.
Now add to the fact that it’s evolution and development had been sped up and already given higher brain function by the Necron DNA meaning it possibly was created very early in its galaxy.
Imagine a galaxy where the Tyranids could be in comparison to the Orks of our own galaxy and what that Galaxy would entail if it developed on a more natural order and what else would’ve evolved with the Tyranids naturally?
Not really a ‘outside threat’ and not fully a ‘threat from the milky way’ but instead something our intervention did so little as lift it into the termite psychology which has knock on effects of it taking on whatever species would’ve naturally combated the Tyranids.
That would make them not much of an outsider threat but a ‘what could’ve been’ of outsider threats.
The Zoats seem related to the Tyranids if not the creators. Interesting theory
Zoats were originally part of the tyranid army list
@@ZivTheWyrd yes but is it still? Also being part of their army doesn't mean they created them. Great observation though. Do you think they created them?
warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Zoat
@@MiddleAgedGuy73 nah, they were assimilated but not nommed on. They're a relic of old lore when geedubs was figuring out what they wanted to do with their space locusts. I remember there being a supplemental comic in the early 90's about rogue trader/40k that had some tyranid/eldar/ig/spehss mehreenz in it.
When he described Termagants as being most closely resembling Zoats, I was honestly surprised. Has he not seen a Hive Guard? They look almost IDENTICAL to Zoats, hell, even some of those custom models that were shown while he talked about Tyranid Weapon-forms being grafted to Zoat bodies looked like Hive Guard!
I always wondered if the Nids were a last ditch effort the Old ones attempted, but did not finish prior to the end of the war, and were hidden or released out into the blackness beyond the galaxy to grow. In some ways the nids are almost built to fight against chaos or those things from the warp with how they create the shadow in the warp, which is also quite strange for a race to develop without it being something engineered, also the fact they basically destroy what the warp feeds on in the many races of the material realm.
So what if the Old ones started or created the Proto form of the Nids, and then sent it out to other galaxies to grow knowing they were basically done for. When the Nids come back they would wipe the slate clean of the warp an chaos gods fixing something that the Old ones in some regards started, and would be a fitting method of the old ones winning the war. This would also explain how some nids-like life forms are found int he galaxy, but instead of being from tendrils that cam in eons ago, they are just the proto-nid experiments left behind. Also i do believe the Shadow in the warp, as well as a large force of Nids has some effect on warp based beings an things.
The other idea I thought would be interesting is if the Nids were a physical form created thru the machinations of a chaos/warp being working thru them, and might be from another warp that exists outside of the 40k galaxy. I dont believe the warp exists or if it does it is quite weak in the areas beyond the galaxies, but a mass of beings like the nids moving thru these areas might be large enough for a warp being to cross between galaxies like the Nids serving as a boat.
I've always held to the idea that 'Nids were in some way created to try and wipe out Chaos. It's not just the Shadow in the Warp, which seems tailor-made to stamp out Chaos locally. Tyranids don't use the Warp to travel, so there's no risk of getting lost in the Warp, or running afoul of Chaos or Warp effects while in-transit. The Hive Mind itself is a highly effective defense against mental corruption of individuals, which is a serious concern for pretty much every other species. The Hive Mind may also protect individual Tyranids against soul corruption as well, simply because individuals don't have one to corrupt. Then, the ability to rapidly evolve, or even control their evolution, may also provide some defense against physical corruption. The Tyranids might be one of very few species that could match Chaos in the numbers department, and with the ability to turn slain foes (and their own) into more weapons and soldiers, in theory their numbers are truly endless as long as they don't never completely lose, and have some time to recuperate.
And my personal favorite: The Doom of Malantai from back in the day, seemed to be little more than a destruction engine fueled by souls of its slain enemies. As far as I'm aware, each Daemonic entity has a sort of soul that returns to the Warp if they are slain on the material plane. But what happens if a Tyranid like the Doom gets its proverbial claws on a Daemon? Can the Daemon reconstitute afterwards? If they can't, that's a huge weapon against one of Chaos' primary strengths.
There is a problem with the theory of the nids being created by the old ones to fight chaos. Mainly that in the old ones' times the sea of souls was not anything like the Warp as we know it now. Especially there were no Chaosgods. Khorne is recorded to be the oldest of the 4 brothers. His birth is considered to have been sometime around the middleages. Brought forth by us humans.
The war in heaven was ages before that. At that age the sea of souls was a calm ocean compared to the turmoil it is now. And the Old ones were the Masters of the warp.
They realy had no reason to develop a weapon against a - at their time - nonexisting threat.
@@TheKaos8 the Enslaver Plague. That's what the Old One's would be making Tyranids to combat. You can't mind control the hive mind, so the Enslavers lose their key method of getting from the Warp to real space. The shadow in the warp blots them out in Warp space, and annihilating all life contributing to the Warp starves the Enslavers still in Warp space. Then the Old Ones just waltz in and rebuild with all that biomass to work with.
H. R. Giger's long reach of terror.
Ridley Scott's. Giger is all about cybernetic sex demons. He created only one purely biological being and it wasn't his idea.
7:04 is it just me or do those supposed "Proto-Nids" kind of look like the Skinks from AoS and Fantasy?
No🤨
Yep. And there have been confirmed Old Ones within the ranks of the Old World's Lizardmen.
Andrew McNally I think that you may be referring to the Slann, which are pretty much described as less powerful and intelligent Old Ones, though looking pretty much the same. But then again "less powerful and intelligent" is real active considering that even the weaker members of the Slann are able to destroy a mountain with but a lazy wave of their hands.
@@dank_smirk2ndchannel200 what's to say that those Slann weren't just Old Ones who were incredibly powerful psykers who jumped through the warp, and landed on the Old World?
Destroying a mountain with a wave of the hand does seem like something that Magnus the Red can do.
Andrew McNally if I remember right it’s described that the Slann come to the prehistoric Old World in silver ships and set about terraforming the planet. They first create the Lizardmen in a caste system. Saurus being the military, Kroxigors being the manual labourers, and Skinks being the citizens, part time rulers, and any other jobs like artists, priests, civil engineers, etc. The Old Ones also made the Slann to be the absolute leaders and to execute the Great Plan (which even the modern Slann are confused as to how it should go). All of the Lizardmen, even the Slann, spawn from the pools within the temple cities, however for some reason no Slann have been born past the fifth generation, making every single Slann irreplaceable.
In a sense you are correct about them being closely related to the Old Ones, the Slann are not them. They were created in the Old Ones' image as a less powerful successor race. While just casually levelling a mountain with barely an action is quite impressive, the difference between the Slann and the Old One's is astronomical. For the Old Ones were pretty much either true gods, or were ones with the warp itself (depending on whether it’s Fantasy or 40K) whereas the Slann were still biological creatures of flesh and blood. For simplicity's sake think of the Old Ones as true gods and the Slann as very powerful demigods.
Speaking of Tyranids how about a video about Mephiston?
This was fascinating. I used to paint the lead miniatures when I was in my teens and played Space Crusade but left it in my 20's although I never stopped admiring the artistry of the painters, illustrators and sculptors. Now 43 my cousin is STILL trying to get me to play but when he talks about it I just wish he'd shut up lol. Great vid mate. Started a new library just for this now :D
Didn’t the silent king work with (I use the term loosely) the blood angels against the Tyranids though? Feel like that would disprove the theory that they are a creation of the Necrons.
Just because he might have created them doesn't mean he is on the same side today. If it was him he probably lost control over them, which in that case was a "oh shit" moment even for a long dead metallic dude.
I like and enjoy the origins of the Tyranids being unknown and remaining a mystery.
Damn Jean Stealers...
Where the hell are my pants!
@@jasonmolenaar119 Fuck. I was gunna say that
Crikey where's me Levi's gone
Damn it!!! 11 months too late. You both beat me to it. Well done!
Isn't there a C'tan known as the Endless Swarm? I wonder if that has any relationship to the Tyranids
The description of the Farseer could also fit Malal, the fifth god Of Chaos, lord of hate, entropy and self destruction.
Exiled, in the materium, by the other gods ( who crave the lifeform in the Milky way) for his immense power
Malal then created a life form that could not be corrupted by Chaos and could even denied it's influence by the Shadow in the Warp.
Just a cool theory ;)
The greatest trick Malal/Malice ever pulled was convincing GW he didn't exist !
The problem with this is that the other Chaos gods would be incentivized to halt the Tyranids at any cost. Obviously, having life stripped from the Milky Way would be bad for the other four. Yet the few times the Tyranids and Chaos interact, they display little desire to engage. This makes sense for the Tyranjds, but not Chaos. Allowing the Tyranids to go about their business unimpeded is contrary.
Finally, a Tyranid creation theory I actually like! I've always hated the idea that they were another creation of the Old Ones, or the Necrons or Eldar or whatever. I was always more a fan of the idea that they were entirely alien to our galaxy and came from someplace else, like maybe Andromeda or another relatively nearby galaxy. But this Zoat theory makes a ton of sense, I'm surprised I never made the connections made in this video. I think my new headcanon is that the Zoats encountered by the Imperium are the few survivors that managed to reach our galaxy ahead of the bulk of the Hive Fleets trying to find someplace safe to set up shop and begin civilization anew. Great video, thanks for the upload!
Yay early for once.
It was these damn bugs that got me into 40k at all. Heard from the late Geoff Robinson ( Starcraft 2 Commentator and 40K pro player) mentioning that 'Tryranids come from all over outside the galaxy' .
One youtube video later and I am down the rabbit(or Tryanid) hole.
get the fuck away from those tyranid holes, heretic
“ It all began when the Silent King met a very very hungry caterpillar...”
🎩
🐍 no step on SNEK! 🇺🇸🇭🇰
Didn't think I'd see you here
Snake dude!!! Even here???
I like the theory of them being made by the Old Ones, to reset the galaxy and start over again. The Old Ones, the supposed original good guys, wanting everything dead for the purpose of restarting it...It fits in 40k perfectly.
I imagine that the Tyranids are kinda like the Skirarii. With Tyranid warriors representing their 'race' much in the same way a Skirarii warrior represents a human.
The only good bug is a dead bug!
They're not much to look at when you scrape them off your boot.
Aim for the nerve stem...and put it down for good
Did i run out of cookies? cookies are a food or edible that is known to be cooked by the spicies known as humans, initially the answer would apear to be yes, but upon closer inspection some crums can be found, sugesting the notion of more cookies being nearby, wich would not be compleetly outside the realm of posibility. it is however important to mention that me running out of cookies is not, entirely unprecedented.
Honestly i love how you speak both ironically and unironically, its very funny but at the same time you always learn something new with how much detail you put in every sentence, great vids man you make my day often
I always took it that the Aeldari seer was lying to the inquisition about the Silent King creating the Nids in order to drive a wedge between the Imperium and Necrons. After all, the Silent King is helping the Blood Angels fight against the Tyranids, and the Aeldari wouldn't stronger ties between their two most bitter enemies after Chaos itself
Not entirely true. The Silent King is using the Blood Angels to fight the Tyranids.
The times they fought "together" it's really been the blood angels doing all the work while the necros just slide out the back door.
Personally i subscribe to the idea that they evolved on their own. I feel that the idea of them being some sort of bio weapon gone wrong is A very VERY cliched and B makes them seem Much less intimidating. I think its far more scary to think that they evolved on their own to be the massive threat they are and opens the doorway to so many more mysteries and possible enemies and beings that came into being inside other galaxies.
After all seems to me that having a sci-fi story that spans a whole universe is much more interesting than one that is restricted to one galaxy with nothing seeming to happen in the rest of the universe, and if the Tyranids evolved out there on their own. what else could be out there just waiting to be discovered?
No way, there are too many impossibilities for them to have evolved naturally. Even if you turn around and say that, for example, the Norn Queens are the 'original' Tyranids (my personal hypothesis). There is just too much about them that would actually be actively selected AGAINST if they evolved naturally. Their ability to devour all biological life for example suggests they are not concerned about protein chirality (handedness of proteins). All life on Earth utilises left handed proteins, probably only because the first life happened to do so. Being able to deal with both forms of proteins is biologically a HUGE resource and energy sink. We cannot, if we were to go to a planet with right handed proteins we would literally starve to death, as our bodies cannot break down right handed proteins effectively, or use right handed amino acids. And that is only ONE reason. There are others I could go into, but I am betting you do not want to read an Evolutionary Ecology 101 textbook! From mypoint of view, as an Evolutionary and Marine Ecologist, if I were to be informed that something like the Tyranids existed, literally the only conclusion I would be able to come to is that they were indeed created as a somewhat self sustaining weapon by someone or something that was not particularly bothered about the fact there might not be anything left once they were done. Even better evidence for this is they have an inbuilt kill switch... they are actually very intensive when it comes to resource and energy use (they have to be if they can deal with both left and right handed proteins). Once they run out of things to eat they will eventually turn on each other, and wipe themselves out.
@@alganhar1 While i do indeed appreciate the level of detail in your response keep in mind that you are looking at a very Very fictitious universe, of course in all story telling you want there to be balance between fact and story and in this case looking at as extreme and convoluted and Unique universe as 40k I would argue that avoiding cliches can help drive compelling story just as much as adhering to real life ecology. Now when it comes to an in universe argument i would like to point out there is no proof that the tyranids cannot be self sustaining. Yes they do come across as galactic hyper predators BUT if they have indeed inhabited other galaxies there is no evidence against them forming self contained galactic ecosystems. This in an of itself may come across as a bit of a convoluted cop-out but maybe what we see with their invasions is less driven by a "Need" to devour and gain more to sustain themselves but instead more a desire to expand their habitat. Again going with the way they biologically work i will admit it is very Easy to see them as something so insane that a higher intelligence would have created them. But at the same time isn't it far more frightening to think something like this could happen on its own?
In a universe large beyond any single humans comprehension isn't it less than impossible that somewhere in the cosmos, especially in a universe as crazy as 40k, that something like the tyranids could have risen to dominate the galactic playing field?
Again i do very Very much appreciate all the thought and detail that went into your response, but for 40k if i had to chose between something that made ecological sense and something that made for a more intimidating villain by the narrative i would chose the latter, that's just me though.
I remember reading somewhere that the original plan back in the early days was that Malal had created the tyranids as his forces but then GW lost the rights to Malal ( and then did the whole Malice thing)
For the love of god stop emphasizing RAN- its TEER-An-ids
Ty ty ty ty
It hurts my ears as well...
Or "Tir-an-ids" but yeah either is a shitload better than ty-RAN-ids
Pinkies up
How many TEER-ants have you heard of? And how many Tie-rants? (Bearing in mind that the root of Tyranid is Tyrant.) 😜
What happen to that theory of the tyranids running away from something more dangerous? Or is that not a thing?
@USO Assassino I love the idea, that the Tyranids are running away from something more terrifying even than them.
I still like having a faction that is just an amoral force of nature and wouldn't want that to be changed, but I do love the trope of the unstoppable invading force actually just being here to grab all the resources and genetic diversity it can carry as it flees from something much, much worse. Also works nicely with another commenter theory, that the tyranids did this to themselves via biological experimentation much like the necrons did with technology - this isn't what they wanted, but they ran out of alternatives.
Kind of like the germanic tribes who invaded rome, because they where fleeing the huns
The only thing a Tyranid fears is an empty plate.
@@hughgedney3393 8 p000sdd
Ah yes , that metal man who made a cast of my face .
My personal theory has always been that they were an ancient offshoot of the kroot gone horribly wrong
Asking the bug questions now, I see!
Lewis Irwin 🤦♂️
Eyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Here’s a Theory, the proto-nids were a race who had a biologically based technology, that had reached Kardashev level 1. This race was forced to evacuate their home world. As they wandered the star, ostensibly searching for a new home world, the proto-nids would strip planets they encountered of all life to maintain the technology. The resulting Tyranids are what devolved from the original proto-nids.
Or evolved making them much more efficient at conquering, devouring then recycling.
Fake terminology
Everytime i think about the 'Nids i always think if there were previous species that may have fallen victim to their devouring in other galaxies maybe one survived or is rebuilding and trying to hunt them down only to enter a new galaxy filled with multiple huge factions that have been warring longer than they can possibly remember. A new threat that survived and rebuild to avenge their ancestors by exterminating the tyranids and perhaps the rest of the factions the tyranids reside with now. Im kinda hoping for something totally badass but there is also the case that there so many things unknown about the races we do know so adding a totally new one would slow down the progress on other races their lore but im hoping for it one day
Note: i dont mean the new race would actually destroy everyone but will just try to like all the other factions
The Hive mind is the key
Yeah. Like what Terran tried to do with the Zerg. Not a good idea man.
Jar Jar is the key to all of this
@@nobleman9393 😂 I'm not sure that you're correct but I'm sure you made me laugh
@@nobleman9393 because he is s much funnier character than we ever had before.
I think the "devourer" mentioned by the Eldar was indeed the C'tan race, seeing how they devoured countless souls and how the silent king showed them the light of the world by giving them bodies and they then developing sentience
The necrons want to destroy life, not create new forms so I don't think it's that.
I prefer the idea they just evolved over billions and billions of years, slowly evolving the forms they needed to consume first their own planet and then slowly spreading across their home galaxy, consuming everything and everyone in it until eventually they left the galaxy a empty and lifeless husk and journeying through intergalactic space, eventually picking up the astronomicon beacon and heading to the 40k galaxy.
What we have seen so far is just the first few scouts and outriders.
An entire galaxy worth of bio form material is on its way to repeat the scenes seen in their home galaxy, it might not even be the only galaxy that they have consumed either.
I don't think the old ones created them because they disrupt psykers and block off the warp
If tyranids eat the entire universe, then they die cause of nothing left to eat. So Necrons win
@@antoinecharlot3519 the tyranids would be alive though, they eat planets, the races on them are just more biomass. They would never be able to eat all the planets since they are constantly being created.
Quality work, as always. A thoroughly enjoyable video.
Time travel. Specimens of Tyranids were accidentally transported back in time billions of years into the past by the Necrons or the Warp for them to evolve into the Hive Mind.
I'm trying to remember the exact description of the Zoats in 40k 1st ed. I seem to recall them being referred to as 'heralds' of the tyrannids. More like a strain of nid, created to integrate into a society, learn about the cultures, then the regular nids come in and wipe them out. Sort of like Brianiac, in the DC universe, they wanted to log everything before they destroy it?
I miss the 3rd ed. 40k necrons, where the C'tan were referred to as 'masters of the material universe', meaning, they were like the chaos gods, are in the warp, but in realspace. They'd undoubtedly know not to fight a 'war in heaven (ie, the warp)' again, and would just systematically rip apart the races as they pleased, denying all the warp entities anything to feed on, and ultimately winning. They'd let the nids eat everyone, then just take them apart, atom by atom. The current C'tan are heavily nerfed, which is fine for the the fluff. The nids as the 'arch-nemesis' of 40k, is fine by me. :)
If they say tyranids = old one hive mind, ima lol XD
Through uniting all biomass in the universe, we will finally achieve true peace.
Where have I heard that?
Halo? Neon Genesis Evangelion?
deamonomic socialism?
Mecha-karl Marx?
Dead space?
Commie Borg?
My two favourite tyranid theories:
First is that all the current hive fleets encountered are simply a splinter vanguard of the real fleet that is still on it's way. Now try to comprehend how large that fleet is going to be?
The second is the theory that tyranids are not really invading the milky way, but instead fleeing from an even greater menace.
Now combine the two, and you truly get to grimdark levels of desperation for mankind.
Okay but when are you going to cover Kerrigan’s importance in destroying the Overmind
What’s this
Friend Raynor is that you?
@@axelNodvon2047 it's a reference to starcraft which has a race called zerg which is fairly similar to tyranids. Where one of the main characters of the campaign is fighting with the zergs' hivemind
Simen Yes I know what they are, starcraft 1 was my first video game. The original comment said kerrigan destroying the hivemind which confused me
Mann Tau prove it
Always love more Night Lords artwork.
One detail I thought worked to any theory about Tyranids being completely artificial or genetically altered was that they cause the Shadow in the Warp, which seems perfect against Chaos.
Also, did not each Hive Fleet enter the galaxy from a different direction, hinting at that the MWG May be the only galaxy left not consumed by the Tyranids, as they surround the galaxy?
I like to think the Tyranids are completely alien to the milky way. They are Lovecraft monster's, who's origins and motivations are beyond the comprehension of us short lived individuals.
I like the idea that the tyranids are a reset and archive for the old ones' experiments. They were outside the galaxy, set to idle until the reset signal was sent. They'd consume all the old ones experiments while archiving the genetic codes.
Can't wait to see this video!
Stopped my other vids
That excerpt from White Dwarf, regarding the eldar "contact upsilon," supports my theory that the Tyranid race was created by an Old One who fled the galaxy during the War in Heaven. There's equal credence to the fan theory that the Emperor of Mankind is a surviving Old One who is trying to use Humanity to retake the Milky Way for himself. If the Tyranids were created as an extragalactic bio-weapon, that would explain their efficiency, intelligence, and single-minded will. Perhaps they were created to wipe the galaxy clean of life, so that it can start anew, clean from the taint of Chaos (hence the Shadow in the Warp) and free from the upstart races whose War in Heaven lead to the deaths of the Old Ones.
The evidence is all there, as are motives. The Old Ones, if they still exist beyond the reaches of this galaxy, have good reason to want the galaxy cleared of life. Perhaps the Tyranids were designed to gather all the galaxy's resources together, so that the Old Ones or some other godlike entity can use all that biomass to shape a galactic empire to their whims, even down to the smallest cell. Or maybe the Tyranids were a science experiment gone wrong, created by the Old Ones to raze the galaxy to the ground, but so effective that they destroyed their masters as well. The open-endedness of the way GW treats the Tyranids is seen as "minimal plot" by the community, but to me, I see it as a source of speculation and debate, which is why I'm in this hobby in the first place.
Edit: What if the Zoats *are* the Old Ones? Or, a remnant of them, at least. We know from WHFB and AoS that the Old Ones also created the Lizardmen, and the 3e Necron codex even suggests playing a game of Necrons versus Lizardmen because of this, using the Lizardmen to represent the descendants of the creations of the Old Ones. GW has since tried to retcon this connection between WHFB and 40k, but keep in mind, this was written in official materials a little while before the Zoats became referenced in the 4e and 5e Tyranid codices. Look at the official Zoat artwork from that era, too... Their faces look remarkably similar to the early Lizardmen artwork and models. This is all speculation, of course, but it's an interesting take on the origins of the Tyranid race. If this were true, it wouldn't change anything about the setting at large. The Old Ones would still be extinct, and the Tyranids would still be a threat.
Sleep or listening to Remleiz?
Listening to Remleiz
Do both at the same time. I find his videos nice to go to sleep to. Though have had some weird dreams afterward.
I like to think that the Tyranids function like either necromorphs/flood or the reapers. The old ones were dying out and the War in Heaven fucked the warp up so as a last ditch effort/final middle finger they made organisms to wipe the slate clean, calm the warp, then become a new version of the Old Ones and reseed life so that they can try again.
The tyrranid hive mind is actually Alpharius.
Or is it ????? Hmmmmm?????
I am Alpharius
Original Theory. What if the tyranids were once a human like species who just happened to have a culture that was obsessed with genetic engineering. Think of pre-war BioShock. People were rewriting their DNA to replace basic household items. The pre-war fire power was not about becoming The Human Torch. It was only about replacing the need for a box of matches. So what if there was a race like that which just continued going in that direction to an extreme until over countless generations they become unrecognizable monsters.
Which is similar to what probably happened with the Star Trek Borg. One day they come out with a smartphone built into your head at first it's controversial. But given enough time it becomes common place. Then skip ahead a few generations and you have the Borg.
he is saying tyranids wrong. again and again and again.
I like to think of the Tyranids as the Doomsday machine from Star Trek TOS.
A weapon of last resort from a now extinct race in a different Galaxy. Developed to end a war but once the war was over the weapon could not be turned off.
And so it continues doing what it was created to do.
Me when "Tie - Rannids"
lol. me too
He's an inquisitor. Do not question his pronunciation. Stay safe brother.
@Din du Nuffings technically his pronunciation of "Behemoth" is much closer to its original pronunciation in Hebrew, "Beyemot"
It hurts knowing he does it on purpose.
@@TRJenizen tbh i enjoy his way of speaking both ironically and unironically, like its really good to refresh knowledge because he overexplains everything so every video is kind of begginer freindly but at the same time i love how he never says anything directly, its like, Did i run out of cookies? initially the answer would apear to be yes, but upon closer inspection some crums can be found, sugesting the notion of more cookies being nearby, wich would not be compleetly outside the realm of posibility. it is however important to mention that me running out of cookies is not, entirely unprecedented
I can see one argument for the Tyranids being the creation of the Silent King while still working towards his goal. If he created the Tyranids to act as "harvesters" to collect all the biomatter in the universe and "refine" it into a pure form to be manipulated into new bodies for the Necron, and either returned to unify all the Necron dynasties under his banner ahead of the great harvest, or he lost control of them and they now have a taste for living metal as well as biomatter.
2:16
Is it pronounced TY-ranids, (like a school "Tie") or Tir-anids? (as in "Fir" Trees)?
The way I pronounce it is a personal preference, though I understand it isn't to everyone's taste :)
I pronounce it tear-a-nids but that's me.
I calls em "dam-bugs"
John Erlwanger - I pronounce Tyranid similar to how I pronounce tyranny. Like how the planet Tyran is to Tyranid as tyrant is to tyranny.
Also the Ciaphas Cain audiobooks are driving my pronunciation as well.
I pronounce it like a Tyrannosaurus rex.
Finally found day it was uploaded for once
The Tyranids seem to me like the xenomorphs of the Alien franchise. Genetically engineered apex predators to be used as weapons, that their creators lost control of.
I guess we should not give the Nids too much backstory. It did not make the xenomorphs better to tell their origin in mediocre movies.
I like the idea that they evolved naturally the most. 40k already enjoys making you feel small in the grand scheme of the galaxy as it is, and I feel that it best follows the theme of the grimdark universe that even our galaxy is insignificant in terms of the entire universe.
Like, in the 13.8 billion years the universe has been around, it makes sense that events greater than those in the Milky Way have occurred. Events which may have ended with an entire galaxy or multiple galaxies being devoid of life from a seemingly unkillable species.
The 4 dislikes where genestealer cult infiltrators.
The tyranids being a product of natural evolution within the Warhammer 40k universe makes perfect sense. No one really bats an eye at all the crazy death worlds within the galaxy, or the fact that psykers are an emergent mutation in all kinds of species - including animals, some of which can use the warp to travel to different worlds: crotalids. In fact, for all we know tyranids might actually be something like the intergalactic norm of where evolution leads whereas the Milky Way Galaxy might be the weird outlier because of the machinations of the Old Ones encouraging the rise of more individualistic species. Perhaps the reason the Hive Mind was attracted to the sudden burst from the beacon is because it is trying to hunt down other emergent hive minds before they can get strong enough to become competition . . . and instead if found a bunch of weird creatures that use technology to accomplish things instead of evolving "properly".
I am an Evolutionary and Marine Biologist, and sorry, but there is absolutely no way Tyranids could naturally evolve, even if you take the view that only one of the bioforms (probably the Norn Queens) are the original form as I do. There are just too many impossibilities, some of them basic biological impossibilities. Which is why I personally ascribe to the view they were created as (mostly) self sustaining weapons by someone or something that was not particularly concerned about the question of if there would be a galaxy or galaxies around once they were done!
@@alganhar1lol okay? Yeah, I agree that in this universe, where your degree and understanding of evolution applies, that a group of species like the Tyranids are impossible. But that literally means nothing in a universe where species can mutant to have contact and beneficial interactions with a parallel dimension of psychically charged energy. Like I get it man, you wanna nerd flex, but come on . . .seriously? You are going to just flatly state, without evidence or even conjecture, how its impossible for a Hive mind species to emerge and eventually start directing its own evolutionary path over millions or potentially billons of years in a universe where literal demons hijack human bodies if they are born with a certain type of mutation? Really?
The fact that those bugs are only capable of sub lightspeed travel and still a threat to anyone is the most unrealistic thing in 40k. And that's saying something.
A very extremely awesome video as always 40k Theories.
Long time ago in a galaxy far far away, Somebody made the perfect organism.
and screwed the rest of the Universe.
You mean Perfect Cell? lol
I like the unknowable element of the Tyranids, their utter alien-ness in conjunction with the apocalyptic threat they pose makes for a compelling and truly terrifying aspect to the 40k universe.
"Teer-an-ids"*
Yes thaaaank you! 😂
Ah dude, you got a nice mic now. Sweet, love your vids.
Is it possible, that the tyranids are made entirely, out of cyber-dongs?
🤔
"No." Lord Dadornable.
Why
Outstanding video man!
I like to think that the Tyranids are actually the remaining old ones
I'm a newbie but what I just kind of assumed was that the Silent King in his self imposed exile made them but it ended up being a Frankenstein's monster situation. He traveled outside the galaxy placing Tyranid seeds so he could have them attack from all over at once rather from a single direction that would more easily be defended. Mortified at what he had done, possibly he realized Necrons would need bodies to transfer into, he hightailed it back to the Milky Way in order to defend the galaxy from his mistake.
Concerning the Zoats and their role as slaves: I like the approach/ idea Luetin stated. He theorised that their talent for diplomacy might have been used in order to ensure that the defences of those peoples first encountered by the Tyranid Hive Fleets were weakened due to the prospect/ promise of friendly "visitors".
The rak'ghoul would make a great video.
My personal theory is theory is that the old one created the Tyranids as a final solution, an ultimate reset button to cleanse the galaxy and stabilize the warp and remove the chaos taint. The tyranids being a hive mind of mindless beasts, they would not create chaos gods, in fact their shadow in the warp is by design, a collective white noise to destroy any conceptual structures of chaos. They would cleanse the galaxy of all living beings and starve the chaos gods and all the other beings in the warp, calming it and returning to the state it originally was; the sea of souls. Once all is eaten, they would starve and die, their biomas collecting and falling to planets or creating new ones to create life anew over millions of years. Maybe mutations would happen, splinter fleets preying upon each other in their starvation, evolution and competition happening until they too died or became something else. Perhaps some of the old ones are hiding out somewhere in some sub dimension or cut of part of the webway, waiting for the galaxy to be cleansed by their perfect biological storm so they can return and start their great work anew, fostering life and bringing up new and better races. Races that can avoid the pitfalls of the previous, improved by the knowledge paid for by the lives of trillions to be gained. There is a a glimmer of hope in the universe, but its a glimmer only to be found after the total inhalation of every being in galaxy. Only in complete destruction can there of hope in the far future.
Your channel is one of the best to have through my cars bluetooth whenever I am goddamn commuting, usually the perfect length, long enough for one or two videos to cover it, easy to listen to but quite interesting. Marry me please
I'm still novice to Warhammer 40k, but I love sci fi world building. This species reminds me of the Chtorr from David Gerrolds 'War Against the Chtorr' series a bit, its a great series I think any Warhammer 40k fan would enjoy.
I really like the idea of the Zoats having created the Tyranids. Makes sense in so many levels imo. Also maybe the Silent King was somehow involved in this but didn't create them. Maybe he met the Zoat and told them about all the Milkey Way and directed them to it or maybe he met the Zoats and instigated them into creating the Tyranids.
At least the Zoats making the Tyranids is my Head-Canon now :D
if you look at the milky way map it is surrounded by tyranid swarm fleets ….almost like we are surrounded and the tyranids are the end all by all of the material realm.... I believe the tyranids are a creation but a creation that is probally even bigger than we realize , like a old ones from another galaxy …. just like how our old ones liked to seed life I think other galaxies had there seeders and the tyranids are a product of this and they were TOO perfect and have wiped out many galaxies and have moved all over wide and beyond and that's why on the map we are surrounded
I hate the idea of the silent king crating the Tyranids. I firmly believe that he's truly sorry for his past sins
Absolute favourite race/faction in 40K. I personally never want the origin of the Tyranids to be confirmed by GW. Nothing they come up with would be as compelling as the utterly alien threat the Nids represent.
But thinking up theories is fun, and I personally want to believe that it's either the Zoats, or another extragalactic race that evolved themselves into a Hivemind. Gotta say though, never would have thought about the Silent King as a possibility.
I have a personal theory that arose because I like both Godzilla and 40K. What if elements of Shin Godzilla were scattered into space in 2K, similar to space Godzilla's origin, and were thrown outside the Galaxy via a warp storm or black hole? Shin Godzilla had the power to constantly mutate into new forms as required and at the end of the movie looked to be evolving humanoid forms in its tail. Maybe the proto-tyranid planet is in one of the Magellanic satellite galaxies and the tyranids evolved there for around 28K years before commencing the ten thousand year journey home. This idea probably contradicts a load of lore and is certainly a confused mix of franchises, but I like the idea of a Shin Godzilla evolved creature being drawn back to Terra.