Wes can you talk about Daemon World a decently old 40k book. It had what was pretty sure was a undivided ancient daemon prince in it. It also has had some great older art for the cover with some sort of mutant or daemonete that looked like it was from H.R Giger. Pretty sure undivided prince were a thing just rare compared to all the others. Yeah can you check the book it had some dark age technology stuff and a ancient daemon prince so it was cool.
I feel like most people who pick things like tzeentch are egomaniacs, khorne are fuelled by emotion, slaneesh are addicts or had it rough, nurgle are just exalted lazy people
@@averageeughenjoyer6429Tzeentch and slaneesh undoubtedly share the egomaniac trait. But when it comes down to it the difference is what they appeal too. Slaneesh appeals to all types of individuals and manipulates their primal instincts. While Tzeentch manipulates one by their desire for change, ambition, and other such things.
I love your videos Wes and thank you for covering the awesome absurdity that is the chaos champions. You even showed off some of the coolest art for each of the chaos champions. If you had to choose a chaos god to be a champion of who you would choose? I would choose to be a champion of Slaanesh because they seem to be having the most fun. I hope you have a good day 👍
was washing dishes, while listening. misheard a lil. was a bit spooky "pls support the warp that i do" ))) and since then i hear it in every youtune video ... which one of four reaching out to me?
We loved this video! Yet, no matter how much both my wife and I hate our bosses, we get angry and fed up with things like rush hour and the everyday grind itself. Neither of us could ever be truly hateful enough to end each other lives for all the gifts that the chaos gods offer.....oh well, guess that means we're of no value to the ruinous powers haha! 😁😃
"What would you be willing to sacrifice for power?" Depends on the type, source and rules this power come with, but if we are talking about power from Chaos then nothing.
I actually wonder if the servants of chaos do mess around with the maws and tentacles, that grow out of the tables they sit at, when they have another tiresome meeting.
@Kululululululu yeah but what if I micromanage excessively, aggressively, and do it so much I cause what I'm micromanaging to rot and die be ause it has no room to flourish or grow?
yeah I see how people in similar situations would welcome him. even people just in extreme mental duress. Papa Nurgle will take the pain away and bless you with his love. if the end result wasn't SO horrific i imagine everyone would throw in with nurgle.
Heretic burn in the light of the Emperor’s disappointment and know the ultimate shame before your tiny spark of life is snuffed out in the blink of time your short life’s suffering is in comparison to the Emperor’s.
As someone who not only has a chronic condition but also I love my wife truly and completely, Nurgle is for me. The only God who experiences and shares love.
The sweetest part of this video was finding out your shoot your videos in your childhood gaming store - stuff like that is the best part of the hobby. I’m actually starting to get serious with my writing (aspiring author) and one of my goals for writing, is to one day write a story for Black Library - a wholesome confluence of hobby and work ❤
Same here my dude. I'm even going back to school 😁 I would probably write an AoS story if I did send anything into BL. I feel more confident with the fantasy end of Warhammer. As far as a career goes I'd love to write for games in general so if Warhammer ever gives us another MMORPG I'm hoping to have a fat enough portfolio to get in on that.
When you plan to make the book, do you already have an idea of what faction will you focus your writing on? Doesn't have to be a fleshed out plan or anything, just curious on what faction you want to wright about
@@wufflemuffin9197 I have a couple ideas on WH stories - one for the Dark Angels (my favourite faction) and, some sort of horror/love story set in either a hive city or feudal world. As for other books, my first novella may be published this year!
If I understand correctly. The reason the top champions of each god, Typhus, Lucius, Kharn and Ahriman haven't been turned into Daemon Princes is because they are more useful to the Gods as 'mortals'. Because becoming a full Daemon comes with the limitation of completely severing one's self from the materium and thus needing help to get out of the Warp. The aforementioned champions on the other hand, thanks to still being material, are able to freely travel to and from the Warp and better able to wage war for their Gods in every corner of the galaxy. Is that right?
to add onto this it sort of lets them do things normal princes couldn't like maybe its in the best interest of nurgle to scheme to bring down a planet when brute force isnt a option, well you cant have a daemon prince of nurgle do that because of how they think. Typhus on the other hand very much COULD
What if Perturabo is not a prince of chaos undivided. Instead he is the first daemon prince of Vashtor so prince of the soul forge. it could explain that mere 300 gene seed and some abandoned warriors were enough to cause his apotheosis. If they were sacrifaced to lesser god of chaos out of sheer desperation it could cure Perturabo of his soul siphoning due to Fulgrim's betrayal.. it would also cause his apotheosis to not be complete. Or maybe it was unforseen consequence of him trying to bind chaos power by dark alchemy and science. Obliterator virus could be born here Only theory, maybe i am wrong and lore states otherwise.
Do not think there is anything current to the contrary. This would make sense and could be canonized into narrative witjout much qualms especially with the sort of limited knowledge we have of perturabo as of late in current point in time.
Perhaps demon price of malice? Or I hope he uses his vast intellect and logic and simply makes himself into a man of iron, upload his Consciousness into a suit s Or something so no god gets him
Perturabo has a Word Bearers tutor, a relationship that surely can't go wrong and be marked by malice and betrayal. Imagine if said tutor sought favor with the pantheon by promising to deliver Perturabo into their eternal service. Imagine further that the Iron Cage ritual was in fact intended to cause involuntary apotheosis, but was promoted to Perturabo as a sure means to stop the soul drain. That might explain why Perturabo is described in _Dead Sky, Black Sun_ as being fueled by hate, bitterness, and rage. He didn't intend to ascend to daemonhood.
Finally, someone who calls out khorne champions as more than mindless killers! Khorne *loves* the art of war and destroying enemies through sheer mind and might together without the use of sorcery
In the game 40k Gladius, when you play Chaos the first god you try to please is Tzeentch. Your player character Chaos Lord's chambers start growing eyes meaning Tzeentch is watching. Once you completed the quest it goes on with your Master of Possession telling you the next god to gain favor with is Nurgle, and one of the Tzeentch eyes turns into a spike shard that attacks the Sorcerer. It has no bearing on the overall main quest but it's a nice little attention to detail to remind you the gods hate each other even if you try pleasing them all.
I think Krieg Acerbus of the Night Lords was also Undivided. But that was back when it was just a regular thing -- it seems GW decided to change the lore on daemon princes sometime in the late 2000s/early 2010s. I honestly miss that lore and don't understand why they changed it.
Whatever GW decided. Still lore vice canon, Belakor is the first and only chaos undivided Deamon prince. Horus you could say maybe could’ve become one, but he never ascended into daemonhood so there’s that
All the chaotic (like in the alignment) have the same leadership structure. Orks, Dark Eldar, Skaven, beastmen, and Chaos all have the strongest and most cunning leading the group until they are killed and replaced by a rival.
To be fair, loyalist space Marines work the same way. Chapter Masters and captains, chaplains and librarians lead the way until they are killed. And most often they are the strongest, toughest or smartest individuals of the chapter.
@@max.z9991The loyalists operate on merit, yes, but it is more of a healthy competition than a circle of backstabbers. For a loyalist captain, even if you falter in your leadership your troops won’t turn against you, the same cannot be said for many chaos war bands.
That was the original meaning of Chaotic versus Lawful in oldschool D&D. Chaos is constant change for better or worse, nature could be considered chaotic. Where's Lawful is something like a slow moving but steady institution or a centuries old fortress unchanged by time and weather. It's only been somewhat recently that people equate Law and Chaos with good vs evil.
Lorgar considers himself to be a champion of Chaos Undivided. Perturabo considers himself to be a champion outside of the gods. They are both wrong. -The Night Lords are Malice's champions. Who better to embody Malice--self-destructive hatred--than a guy that let himself be killed to prove a point and destroyed his own home world? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Konrad Curze's death was what birthed the original form of Malice, perhaps Malice's conscious even being an extension of Curze's. -The Alpha Legion are the Tau'va's champions. "For the greater good" is the entire reason they turned to Chaos in the first place, after all. -The Iron Warriors are Vashtorr's champions, Reddit nerds all. -Lorgar and the Word Bearers think they are champions of Chaos Undivided, but there is something he holds dear, above the will of all the gods: Faith. So it would make sense for him to be the champion of the Chaos God of faith: The Star Child. As these four chaos gods take root in the Warp and achieve their final form, as the Eightfold Path completes, these four "unaligned" legions will find that their ideals align with the new gods's ideals.
I've been planning to write a short story about a guy's chaos career all the way from cultist to prince so this was super useful. I thought Daemon Princes had a lot o freedom though. And ngl, Khorne seems like the best option cause at least what you see is what you get with him
They sort of do But the power of their patron god warps their intentions as personality Much like any Daemon, that power is made of emotions, intent and desires Some Daemons are made from hate, so reflect that in personality, some made from anger, some vengeance, some injustice, some honour So any Daemon prince made of such emotions would have their personality changed to better reflect that They're still 'free' to pick their own fate But the warp energy and power they've been given makes them more likely to act in certain ways Ways favourable to their god
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 yes and no If they were already dedicated to their god in question, sure, but becoming a Daemon prince would amplify such emotions making them even more representative of their god, as their anger, hate, rage and lust for blood (Khorne is easiest to describe) much more potent, making tactical or strategic planning less of a concern for them If they were attempting to be Undivided, they definitely weren't, but now are
Yeah, I'd really prefer if they were not JUST an extension of the gods. They should be more of a halfway point: Conected to their god, of course, but still very much themselves (at the time of apotheosis) This goes double for undivided princes. They should be rare, but not just the 1 (or 3) dude(s). They should basically just be themselves while being passively attuned to Chaos. Maybe even on a subconscious level. Hell, maybe the monogod princes should be like that too. Inherently connected to Chaos but subconsciously. Otherwise, what's the point in them? If they're nothing but a puppet for their god, an exalted greater deamon would function exactly the same, just as well, with less hassle.
Yeah, maybe most daemon princes come from traitorous Astartes but the most memorables and interesting are the mortals that managed to ascend without being supersoldiers. Doombreed, N'Kari, Emeli Dubuor. They may be the minority but they had to wrok much harder and smarter to achieve their goals.
Glad i found your channel, you make my transits enjoyable and expand my mind to the universe i know so little about. I don't have much time to paint and play these days so I get my 40k fix in other ways. Thank you for all that you do for me and others like me, Wes.
I want to point out about undivided, there is many more examples of Undivided demon princes, mainly hailing from the word bearers Legion. But also one more recent example is from the dawn of fire novels. In the Book Gate of Bones, an Iron warrior warlord is a devout follower of all the gods undivided, and a good buddy with a dark apostle of the WB. SPOILER! WARNING!!!!! By the end of the Novel the Chaos Lord takes down an Imperial Knight with his tank Crew and personally slays the Noble piloting it. hE TAKES HOWEVER HORRENDOUS WOUNDS FROM IT. but as he kills the Noble, he chants over and over again his dedication to all 4 gods and that this kill is in their name and so is his life. and he is rewarded by the gods with ascension, becoming an Undivided prince like his primarch.
Another curious demon prince of chaos undevided is the warsmith from storm of iron. The only known demon princes except perturabo from the iron warriors
Idk. I liked the idea of Chaos Undivided being a more exclusive, but also at least equally rewarding path. Like Perturabo turning down Nurgle to turn counter offer with the gene seed he stole, using leverage and force of will to acquire a better deal for demon princehood in chaos Undivided, ideally with more power. But based on the video it seems like that's not maybe the case as much. I guess we won't know until GW gets off their asses, like ya said.
Khorne: Too angry to stop or die Nurgle: Already dead and stubborn about it Tzeenzche: Can't kill me if you don't even know I'm the one trying to kill you Slaanesh: Too horny to die. Chaos Undivided: The gods won't let you die while they are still fighting over your soul.
If GW were to release a model of Lorgar as a 40K Daemon Primarch like what they've done for Angron, Mortarion, and Magnus, I would love it if it looked like the picture at 7:24 with the four faces. I really like that picture.
I think the difference between be'lakor and the other undivided daemon princes is that be'lakor was an attempt as a form of 'super' daemon prince Wheras perturabo, lorgar, krieg acerbus, ingathel, and other undivided daemon princes is that theyre roughly equal to the other daemon princes Be'lakor was stripped of much of his power after pissing off the 4 gods, but is still equal to any other daemon prince Whethe he is stronger now becauae of that power or whether he gained strength due to worship since losing power isnt properly explained
I would honestly choose Tzeentch. Of all the Chaos followers, followers of Tzeentch seem to be the most intact, at least as long as you can keep him intrigued. He seemingly allows more independence than the other gods, so much so that if Ahriman served any of the other gods, I'm certain he'd have been destroyed long before where we are now in Warhammer canon
I pick nurgle. If i gotta be a weird goblin, id rather be a happy but gross dude then a chaos spawn of tzeench, constantly triggered rage man or gross sex fiend
The exception to a lot of this is Ezekyle Abaddon The Despoiler. He has been offered Daemonhood by each of the Gods and collectively, but steadfastly refuses. He wants to fight and Win the Long War as a "man" and himself.
Traitoius Militarum The lost and the damed. Tell our stories of glory. We do the same jobs as the corpse worshippers. Just for the Dark god's instead. 🖤
Space Buddhists sure are weird. You'd think that since ours went from the Four Noble Truths to the Eightfold Path in recorded history, they'd at least be to twelve or sixteen tenets by the forty-first millennia.
My dude, make a video about rouge trader story. Story is cool and detailed, and I got an ending Guilliman would approve! (Well, not imperium in general, they would burn me tied to a pole) It would be awesome to see how story connects to wider lore.
Abaddon!! Say it!! I read a piece of lore once that he is the ultimate champion of chaos undivided because they need him more than he needs them. He chooses not to become a demon prince, even though anyone of the gods would elevate him instantly.
What's really interesting is that Buddhism also calls itself the 8 fold path. And very dark things can happen to a buddhist monk that strays from it. Japan's version has a lot of fallen monks turned into monsters. There's the Dai Tengu for example, a massive crow demon said to have taught humanity how to make and fight with bladed weapons. But I also remember that a monk who got greedy and misappropriated money for his temple came back as a head attached to a wheel on FIRE.
I still don't buy the lore idea about chaos gods being "primordial" instead of being latter byproducts of the ending of War in Heaven conceptually (for Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch until they born from humans' medieval age) then later with Slaanesh with the fall of Eldar There's so much exaggeration of the influences and false "primordiality" of Chaos that in practice that if DOOM multiverse collide with Warhammer 40K universe/ milky way galaxy, utilising Argent Energy and pledging to DOOM Eternal's are much more powerful, efficient and convenient than doing elaborately inefficient, fucked up and reeks of caveat of chaos gods' rituals idiocy, heck I'm not even surprised if Dante can just clean The Warp from chaos gods in just his mildly annoyed/entertained day knowing that he killed Mundus and other absurdly powerful cosmic beings Also if chaos gods existing from day 1, wouldn't any other warp gods (especially more powerful ones than those 4 akin to Emperor, Star Child, Shadow in The Warp, Gork & Mork, whatever spawned Eternity Well, etc) would also existing in day 1 too? It's also implying that Ynnead also always existed and Eldar Pantheon doesn't exactly devoured to death after Slaanesh's birth scream, not to mention Hivemind's Shadow in The Warp also appears just recently in time and already feared by both chaos gods and any other Psyker entities
It 100% makes sense that Lorgar and Perturabo would become almost flawless chaos undivided princes. Lorgar spent every moment of his life worshipping the gods and found just worshipping them to be its own reward so he would never find one god more desirable than another. Perturabo on the other hand was one of the smartest and strategic primarchs meticulously calculating every battle plan so he would unintentionally serve the gods’ plans due to his nature
The only one I know of was a noble woman, I think, who summond and then devoured keepers of secrets to keep her youth. Slaanesh was impressed by that and elevated her to daemonhood.
I wonder if the emperor would be counted as one with the chaos gods having hoped to push him into one and all it was going to take was *allowing* himself to absorb it.
Most people would think that my leg which needs amputation from infection puts me directly in nurgles inner circle but god damn ill be getting my admech leg when its done.
Open question to everyone: which chaos god, or gods, would you most like to receive favors from? Or whose eyes would be drawn to you? Personally, I'd probably end up a Slaaneshi touched follower of grandfather Nurgle...
one can also make the point that a primarch is a far more capable individual, compared to an astartes. So for them to balance the needs and wishes of the four would be an easier task.
True .but they , Belicore, and Abby have asked for sugar from all four of the Gods houses. I think the Gods have a bit of leaking sugar bag that other chaos marines can get into like rats. Not saying it's common otherwise the gods would notice more ,but there is pretty good chance there are those who would steal from the Gods pantry of power!@@weshammer
Khornes number is 8. The eightfold path is the path you walk as you discard everything but rage and bloodlust. The path ends with you dead or a demon prince.
The symbol of chaos is the eight-pointed star, and the path we walk on when embracing its teachings is the eightfold path. Also, as the other commenter mentioned, eight has spiritual significance to chaos
Do you seriously record out of the back of your Warhammer store? if so that is awesomely cool hope it helps keep them going and spreading the fun of gaming....
Its less that Be'lakor was a failed experiment and more that he worked *too* well. If we're supplementing his 40k lore with Fantasy (which I do, because he's in both settings and has more lore in Fantasy.), he was on the road to becoming the 5th Chaos Power and possibly supplanting the Dark Gods. Its why they started stripping much of his power away and creating their own deidcated Princes. They were - and still are - scared of The Dark Master, but he's far too useful to just get rid of. Assuming, of course, they *can* get rid of him.
If Chaos was real, i would hate it so much i would do my best to join the Sons of Malice as a cultist. Malice is the coolest Chaos God and I don't care if he is not canon anymore, he is to me.
I'm curious then, how would you classify entities like the Emperor or Horus, who have passed through the portal and been granted (or stolen) gifts from all of the chaos deities? If Belakor is the only daemon prince of chaos undivided, then what are the two of them?
I was agnostic simply because I didnt have the information. I only lightly researched it as I didnt place too much value on it, but I honestly did sway between them. Thanks for clearing it up well and concisely. I suppose its disappoiting but also, not. Can't say I'm particularly complaining about the fact that boat sized meat eaters aren't roaming around.
If you can only select one companion, I'd say cats are stringer than dogs in the meta right now. The human social ability Diversified Labor means most players acquire their food at a distribution center of some type. No need for dogs to help hunt. However, despite resulting in several food storage tech improvements, Diversified Labor has had little impact on the ability of rats, mice, & etc to access a human's stored food. Cats are still hard counters to these scavengers, making them still very relevant in the contemporary meta, especially in city biomes. Dogs are better for protection missions, & they can force a beneficial behavioral trait on human players: Go Outside Several Times A Day. This trait can be really hard for some players to acquire, & it grants a pretty remarkable bundle of stat boosts.
in regards to the irony of the final ascension to daemonhood turning them into eternal slaves of the gods. reminds me of one of my favorite sayings about the chaos gods, from an age of sigmar book (godeater I think) "The gods do not bind us themselves, it is not in their power to do so, rather they teach us to forge our own chains, if we but ask them." (paraphrased, can't remember the exact quote.) which i think makes them so much more brilliantly insidious, that everyone who ends up enslaved to the gods, does so of their own free will. (even if they don't realize thats what they are doing)
What might be interesting for the game would be the late introduction of the Gods of Law (like those from “Elric of Melniboné”), possibly with a return of the sentient constructs of man. Imagine a faction that does not travel the immaterial paths of the warp, but instead has accomplished a wholly “Empereal” subliminal travel. Then again, there is also Malice as a fifth Chaos God and isn’t there a machine chaos god, too?
Use code WESHAMMER50 to get 50% off your first Factor box at bit.ly/3Y3ZPoQ!
Quick question Wes, will you ever consider covering AOS
☝️🤨 What, corpse-starch not good enough for ya anymore?!
Wes can you talk about Daemon World a decently old 40k book. It had what was pretty sure was a undivided ancient daemon prince in it. It also has had some great older art for the cover with some sort of mutant or daemonete that looked like it was from H.R Giger. Pretty sure undivided prince were a thing just rare compared to all the others. Yeah can you check the book it had some dark age technology stuff and a ancient daemon prince so it was cool.
I'm not eating microwaved tomatoes. That chicken looked good though.
Thanks bro your the only thing that I can listen to, to be able to go to 😴 sleep love your videos
“I’m going to pledge my soul to an eldritch collection of the worst psychic shit humanity has ever dreamed up. There is no way this backfires.”
I feel like most people who pick things like tzeentch are egomaniacs, khorne are fuelled by emotion, slaneesh are addicts or had it rough, nurgle are just exalted lazy people
At least Vasthorr is honest about what will happen.
@@khylerbane4523Can I even pledge to him?
@@averageeughenjoyer6429Tzeentch and slaneesh undoubtedly share the egomaniac trait. But when it comes down to it the difference is what they appeal too. Slaneesh appeals to all types of individuals and manipulates their primal instincts. While Tzeentch manipulates one by their desire for change, ambition, and other such things.
I see
I love your videos Wes and thank you for covering the awesome absurdity that is the chaos champions. You even showed off some of the coolest art for each of the chaos champions. If you had to choose a chaos god to be a champion of who you would choose? I would choose to be a champion of Slaanesh because they seem to be having the most fun. I hope you have a good day 👍
was washing dishes, while listening. misheard a lil. was a bit spooky "pls support the warp that i do" )))
and since then i hear it in every youtune video ... which one of four reaching out to me?
Great video!
So isnt the entire Iron warriors basically “undivided” considering they subscribe to any chaos god? Or what does it make them?
Any chaos champions or princes whom have gotten duel blessings? Aka a blessing or blessings from a pair of gods but not all four of them??
We loved this video! Yet, no matter how much both my wife and I hate our bosses, we get angry and fed up with things like rush hour and the everyday grind itself. Neither of us could ever be truly hateful enough to end each other lives for all the gifts that the chaos gods offer.....oh well, guess that means we're of no value to the ruinous powers haha! 😁😃
Does anyone know what music he uses in the background of his videos?
"What would you be willing to sacrifice for power?"
Depends on the type, source and rules this power come with, but if we are talking about power from Chaos then nothing.
I actually wonder if the servants of chaos do mess around with the maws and tentacles, that grow out of the tables they sit at, when they have another tiresome meeting.
when Lore video about Be’lakor? 😗
I like Warhammer
No
Don’t we all? XD
Me too! I like the part where warhammer said..
"Its warhammer time"
And he warhammer its opponents like crazy!
I like conflict blunt weapons
I like Wes
Khorne: bonus strength
Tzenche: bonus intelligence
Nurgle: bonus durability
Slanesh: bonus boneus
Mega boneus.
Khorne - Bonus Strength and Dexterity
Tzeenche - Bonus Intelligence
Nurgle - Bonus Constitution
Slaanesh - Bonus Charisma(?)
slaanesh is bonus speed and agility
@@johnlucas2838 bonus acidic cuum
thank you but cuum@@tulud
Becoming a Champion of Chaos Undivided seems like a micromanager's dream😄
Thats why I sprincled my manager with holy water the other day, it worked 👍
And being a micromanager is Tzeench's thing, gaining his favour above all. See how hard this could be?
@Kululululululu yeah but what if I micromanage excessively, aggressively, and do it so much I cause what I'm micromanaging to rot and die be ause it has no room to flourish or grow?
And that's what Belakor managed to do that.
He is the first chaos undivided daemon prince
Careful of jealousy, especially if you are a champion, a chaos God might become irritated if not enough worship is directed towards them.
"Every bond you break, Every breath you take.. I'll be watching you" quoted from daily chaos undivided meeting.
How my second head aches
With every soul you take
@mrsparkle9048 Found the Slaanesh worshipper
Glad it wasn't only me when he was all like "every life you take" I totally started singing in my head. 😊
As someone who lives 24/7 in obscene amounts of pain i welcome Papa Nurgle
Honestly as appealing as never feeling pain again is, I'm too far prone to addiction. It's Slaanesh for me 😂
yeah I see how people in similar situations would welcome him. even people just in extreme mental duress. Papa Nurgle will take the pain away and bless you with his love. if the end result wasn't SO horrific i imagine everyone would throw in with nurgle.
Heretic burn in the light of the Emperor’s disappointment and know the ultimate shame before your tiny spark of life is snuffed out in the blink of time your short life’s suffering is in comparison to the Emperor’s.
HERETIC!!!! THE EMPEROR'S LIGHT WILL CLEANSE YOU @@Sphendrana
As someone who not only has a chronic condition but also I love my wife truly and completely, Nurgle is for me.
The only God who experiences and shares love.
The sweetest part of this video was finding out your shoot your videos in your childhood gaming store - stuff like that is the best part of the hobby.
I’m actually starting to get serious with my writing (aspiring author) and one of my goals for writing, is to one day write a story for Black Library - a wholesome confluence of hobby and work ❤
Same here my dude. I'm even going back to school 😁 I would probably write an AoS story if I did send anything into BL. I feel more confident with the fantasy end of Warhammer. As far as a career goes I'd love to write for games in general so if Warhammer ever gives us another MMORPG I'm hoping to have a fat enough portfolio to get in on that.
Do you have any work out there to read?
When you plan to make the book, do you already have an idea of what faction will you focus your writing on? Doesn't have to be a fleshed out plan or anything, just curious on what faction you want to wright about
@@wufflemuffin9197 I have a couple ideas on WH stories - one for the Dark Angels (my favourite faction) and, some sort of horror/love story set in either a hive city or feudal world.
As for other books, my first novella may be published this year!
This didn't age well 😕
If I understand correctly. The reason the top champions of each god, Typhus, Lucius, Kharn and Ahriman haven't been turned into Daemon Princes is because they are more useful to the Gods as 'mortals'. Because becoming a full Daemon comes with the limitation of completely severing one's self from the materium and thus needing help to get out of the Warp. The aforementioned champions on the other hand, thanks to still being material, are able to freely travel to and from the Warp and better able to wage war for their Gods in every corner of the galaxy.
Is that right?
That is correct as far as I know, because I could not explain otherwise why they haven‘t been elevated yet.
Yes very correct
More important I think is the fact that they no longer have a "free will" and so they can't make plans or now things that the gods do not.
to add onto this it sort of lets them do things normal princes couldn't
like maybe its in the best interest of nurgle to scheme to bring down a planet when brute force isnt a option, well you cant have a daemon prince of nurgle do that because of how they think. Typhus on the other hand very much COULD
Daemon princes are managers champions are contractors
What if Perturabo is not a prince of chaos undivided. Instead he is the first daemon prince of Vashtor so prince of the soul forge. it could explain that mere 300 gene seed and some abandoned warriors were enough to cause his apotheosis. If they were sacrifaced to lesser god of chaos out of sheer desperation it could cure Perturabo of his soul siphoning due to Fulgrim's betrayal.. it would also cause his apotheosis to not be complete. Or maybe it was unforseen consequence of him trying to bind chaos power by dark alchemy and science. Obliterator virus could be born here
Only theory, maybe i am wrong and lore states otherwise.
Well thought out theory, GW should take notes
That sounds cool!
Do not think there is anything current to the contrary. This would make sense and could be canonized into narrative witjout much qualms especially with the sort of limited knowledge we have of perturabo as of late in current point in time.
Perhaps demon price of malice? Or I hope he uses his vast intellect and logic and simply makes himself into a man of iron, upload his Consciousness into a suit s
Or something so no god gets him
Perturabo has a Word Bearers tutor, a relationship that surely can't go wrong and be marked by malice and betrayal. Imagine if said tutor sought favor with the pantheon by promising to deliver Perturabo into their eternal service. Imagine further that the Iron Cage ritual was in fact intended to cause involuntary apotheosis, but was promoted to Perturabo as a sure means to stop the soul drain. That might explain why Perturabo is described in _Dead Sky, Black Sun_ as being fueled by hate, bitterness, and rage. He didn't intend to ascend to daemonhood.
Finally, someone who calls out khorne champions as more than mindless killers! Khorne *loves* the art of war and destroying enemies through sheer mind and might together without the use of sorcery
I like the older duality type lore of Chaos. Eg. Khorne being a god of violence and bloodshed but also strength and honour.
@@somethinglikethat2176 More strength than honour.
One of his greatest champion was literally called "The Betrayer"...
agreed, modern 40k lore is pretty shit and the way chaos changed is definitely some of the worst@@somethinglikethat2176
In the game 40k Gladius, when you play Chaos the first god you try to please is Tzeentch. Your player character Chaos Lord's chambers start growing eyes meaning Tzeentch is watching. Once you completed the quest it goes on with your Master of Possession telling you the next god to gain favor with is Nurgle, and one of the Tzeentch eyes turns into a spike shard that attacks the Sorcerer. It has no bearing on the overall main quest but it's a nice little attention to detail to remind you the gods hate each other even if you try pleasing them all.
I think you forgot The Warsmith from Storm of Iron,he ascended into a daemon prince of Chaos Undivided
I think Krieg Acerbus of the Night Lords was also Undivided. But that was back when it was just a regular thing -- it seems GW decided to change the lore on daemon princes sometime in the late 2000s/early 2010s. I honestly miss that lore and don't understand why they changed it.
I felt that while not explicitly stated, he seemed to be a tzeentch daemon prince to me
Whatever GW decided. Still lore vice canon, Belakor is the first and only chaos undivided Deamon prince. Horus you could say maybe could’ve become one, but he never ascended into daemonhood so there’s that
@@dendrien If Belakor is the only one, then what is Lorgar?
@@headlibrarian1996also correct belakor and lorgar and pertrabo
BLOOOD FOR THE BLOOOD GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
* swings chain sword like mad man*
All the chaotic (like in the alignment) have the same leadership structure.
Orks, Dark Eldar, Skaven, beastmen, and Chaos all have the strongest and most cunning leading the group until they are killed and replaced by a rival.
To be fair, loyalist space Marines work the same way. Chapter Masters and captains, chaplains and librarians lead the way until they are killed. And most often they are the strongest, toughest or smartest individuals of the chapter.
@@max.z9991The loyalists operate on merit, yes, but it is more of a healthy competition than a circle of backstabbers. For a loyalist captain, even if you falter in your leadership your troops won’t turn against you, the same cannot be said for many chaos war bands.
That was the original meaning of Chaotic versus Lawful in oldschool D&D.
Chaos is constant change for better or worse, nature could be considered chaotic.
Where's Lawful is something like a slow moving but steady institution or a centuries old fortress unchanged by time and weather.
It's only been somewhat recently that people equate Law and Chaos with good vs evil.
Lorgar considers himself to be a champion of Chaos Undivided. Perturabo considers himself to be a champion outside of the gods. They are both wrong.
-The Night Lords are Malice's champions. Who better to embody Malice--self-destructive hatred--than a guy that let himself be killed to prove a point and destroyed his own home world? In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Konrad Curze's death was what birthed the original form of Malice, perhaps Malice's conscious even being an extension of Curze's.
-The Alpha Legion are the Tau'va's champions. "For the greater good" is the entire reason they turned to Chaos in the first place, after all.
-The Iron Warriors are Vashtorr's champions, Reddit nerds all.
-Lorgar and the Word Bearers think they are champions of Chaos Undivided, but there is something he holds dear, above the will of all the gods: Faith. So it would make sense for him to be the champion of the Chaos God of faith: The Star Child.
As these four chaos gods take root in the Warp and achieve their final form, as the Eightfold Path completes, these four "unaligned" legions will find that their ideals align with the new gods's ideals.
This is genius. Shame GW won't think of something this clever.
Everyone knows that the Chaos Gods' true champion is that one set of D6s that don't like you.
Dunno, Khorn is just a god of Gym Culture and getting swole.
Reps for the Rep God; sets for the Set Throne.
@@Unpainted_Huffhines Gains for the Gains God;
I've been planning to write a short story about a guy's chaos career all the way from cultist to prince so this was super useful. I thought Daemon Princes had a lot o freedom though.
And ngl, Khorne seems like the best option cause at least what you see is what you get with him
me personally i will take my chances with the Prince of pleasure and enjoy to control the addictions bro😂
They sort of do
But the power of their patron god warps their intentions as personality
Much like any Daemon, that power is made of emotions, intent and desires
Some Daemons are made from hate, so reflect that in personality, some made from anger, some vengeance, some injustice, some honour
So any Daemon prince made of such emotions would have their personality changed to better reflect that
They're still 'free' to pick their own fate
But the warp energy and power they've been given makes them more likely to act in certain ways
Ways favourable to their god
@@ragnarian But if they made it all the way to daemon prince, chances are they were that way already
@@aguywithalotofopinions412 yes and no
If they were already dedicated to their god in question, sure, but becoming a Daemon prince would amplify such emotions making them even more representative of their god, as their anger, hate, rage and lust for blood (Khorne is easiest to describe) much more potent, making tactical or strategic planning less of a concern for them
If they were attempting to be Undivided, they definitely weren't, but now are
Yeah, I'd really prefer if they were not JUST an extension of the gods.
They should be more of a halfway point: Conected to their god, of course, but still very much themselves (at the time of apotheosis)
This goes double for undivided princes. They should be rare, but not just the 1 (or 3) dude(s). They should basically just be themselves while being passively attuned to Chaos. Maybe even on a subconscious level.
Hell, maybe the monogod princes should be like that too. Inherently connected to Chaos but subconsciously.
Otherwise, what's the point in them? If they're nothing but a puppet for their god, an exalted greater deamon would function exactly the same, just as well, with less hassle.
Yeah, maybe most daemon princes come from traitorous Astartes but the most memorables and interesting are the mortals that managed to ascend without being supersoldiers.
Doombreed, N'Kari, Emeli Dubuor.
They may be the minority but they had to wrok much harder and smarter to achieve their goals.
I know doombreed is ghengis, but what's the storys of nkari and emeli
Emily from the Cain series comes to mind.
Glad i found your channel, you make my transits enjoyable and expand my mind to the universe i know so little about. I don't have much time to paint and play these days so I get my 40k fix in other ways.
Thank you for all that you do for me and others like me, Wes.
Always a good day when Wes drops a video. Get to watch it in the morning with my son and fall asleep to it that night.
I want to point out about undivided, there is many more examples of Undivided demon princes, mainly hailing from the word bearers Legion. But also one more recent example is from the dawn of fire novels. In the Book Gate of Bones, an Iron warrior warlord is a devout follower of all the gods undivided, and a good buddy with a dark apostle of the WB.
SPOILER! WARNING!!!!!
By the end of the Novel the Chaos Lord takes down an Imperial Knight with his tank Crew and personally slays the Noble piloting it. hE TAKES HOWEVER HORRENDOUS WOUNDS FROM IT. but as he kills the Noble, he chants over and over again his dedication to all 4 gods and that this kill is in their name and so is his life. and he is rewarded by the gods with ascension, becoming an Undivided prince like his primarch.
Another curious demon prince of chaos undevided is the warsmith from storm of iron. The only known demon princes except perturabo from the iron warriors
Idk. I liked the idea of Chaos Undivided being a more exclusive, but also at least equally rewarding path. Like Perturabo turning down Nurgle to turn counter offer with the gene seed he stole, using leverage and force of will to acquire a better deal for demon princehood in chaos Undivided, ideally with more power. But based on the video it seems like that's not maybe the case as much. I guess we won't know until GW gets off their asses, like ya said.
Khorne: Too angry to stop or die
Nurgle: Already dead and stubborn about it
Tzeenzche: Can't kill me if you don't even know I'm the one trying to kill you
Slaanesh: Too horny to die.
Chaos Undivided: The gods won't let you die while they are still fighting over your soul.
So basiclly chaos is like a talent show with the big four as the jury.
"Is not so much about what they are gaining, but what they're giving up"
This was profound, perfectly describes it
You have been the introduction to Warhammer for me and a bunch of my mates, I thank you for that and I look forward to every upload.
Wes hammer and Baldemort #bestgirls
@@subhsubh3002
#Bestgirls ?
@@ViIgax I'm just being cute. They are my fav WH40K creators. Baldemorts voice is just *muah cheffs kiss*
If GW were to release a model of Lorgar as a 40K Daemon Primarch like what they've done for Angron, Mortarion, and Magnus, I would love it if it looked like the picture at 7:24 with the four faces. I really like that picture.
I think the difference between be'lakor and the other undivided daemon princes is that be'lakor was an attempt as a form of 'super' daemon prince
Wheras perturabo, lorgar, krieg acerbus, ingathel, and other undivided daemon princes is that theyre roughly equal to the other daemon princes
Be'lakor was stripped of much of his power after pissing off the 4 gods, but is still equal to any other daemon prince
Whethe he is stronger now becauae of that power or whether he gained strength due to worship since losing power isnt properly explained
I would honestly choose Tzeentch. Of all the Chaos followers, followers of Tzeentch seem to be the most intact, at least as long as you can keep him intrigued. He seemingly allows more independence than the other gods, so much so that if Ahriman served any of the other gods, I'm certain he'd have been destroyed long before where we are now in Warhammer canon
Yep
Tzeentch is also the most likely to turn you into a chaos spawn for the lulz
This is just funny to me so don't take it seriously ;
Wes : *Talks about daemon-infused space marine chaos champions*
Also Wes : *Shows Iron Lords*
I pick nurgle. If i gotta be a weird goblin, id rather be a happy but gross dude then a chaos spawn of tzeench, constantly triggered rage man or gross sex fiend
The exception to a lot of this is Ezekyle Abaddon The Despoiler. He has been offered Daemonhood by each of the Gods and collectively, but steadfastly refuses.
He wants to fight and Win the Long War as a "man" and himself.
Jokes. Abby is less "man" than Konrad was
These champions often hang out for Slaaneshmas.
Traitoius Militarum The lost and the damed. Tell our stories of glory. We do the same jobs as the corpse worshippers. Just for the Dark god's instead. 🖤
Space Buddhists sure are weird. You'd think that since ours went from the Four Noble Truths to the Eightfold Path in recorded history, they'd at least be to twelve or sixteen tenets by the forty-first millennia.
Buddhists are Chaos Cultists confirmed.
YOU FILM IN THE STORE?! holy shit thats so epic
Thanks Wes! I love your videos they always make my day!
I choose Malice.
I always leaned toward tzeetch because the ability to mutate your body and revert it at will seems way to useful in a world like Warhammer.
My dude, make a video about rouge trader story. Story is cool and detailed, and I got an ending Guilliman would approve! (Well, not imperium in general, they would burn me tied to a pole) It would be awesome to see how story connects to wider lore.
Please do not the dark eldar girl.
Abaddon!! Say it!! I read a piece of lore once that he is the ultimate champion of chaos undivided because they need him more than he needs them. He chooses not to become a demon prince, even though anyone of the gods would elevate him instantly.
Always a good day when we get a new Weshammer video!
What's really interesting is that Buddhism also calls itself the 8 fold path. And very dark things can happen to a buddhist monk that strays from it. Japan's version has a lot of fallen monks turned into monsters. There's the Dai Tengu for example, a massive crow demon said to have taught humanity how to make and fight with bladed weapons. But I also remember that a monk who got greedy and misappropriated money for his temple came back as a head attached to a wheel on FIRE.
I still don't buy the lore idea about chaos gods being "primordial" instead of being latter byproducts of the ending of War in Heaven conceptually (for Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch until they born from humans' medieval age) then later with Slaanesh with the fall of Eldar
There's so much exaggeration of the influences and false "primordiality" of Chaos that in practice that if DOOM multiverse collide with Warhammer 40K universe/ milky way galaxy, utilising Argent Energy and pledging to DOOM Eternal's are much more powerful, efficient and convenient than doing elaborately inefficient, fucked up and reeks of caveat of chaos gods' rituals idiocy, heck I'm not even surprised if Dante can just clean The Warp from chaos gods in just his mildly annoyed/entertained day knowing that he killed Mundus and other absurdly powerful cosmic beings
Also if chaos gods existing from day 1, wouldn't any other warp gods (especially more powerful ones than those 4 akin to Emperor, Star Child, Shadow in The Warp, Gork & Mork, whatever spawned Eternity Well, etc) would also existing in day 1 too? It's also implying that Ynnead also always existed and Eldar Pantheon doesn't exactly devoured to death after Slaanesh's birth scream, not to mention Hivemind's Shadow in The Warp also appears just recently in time and already feared by both chaos gods and any other Psyker entities
I'd you worship Nurgle you don't HAVE to give up your loved ones. You can bring them with you! And you get so many more family members to boot.
Becoming a champion of chaos undivided is the equivalent of watching your favorite harem anime and trying to make that work irl.
YASSS CHAOS BAYBEEEEE. honestly, chaos is my favorite part of warhammer
Dude keep videos like this coming even if you ould do a few on minor chaos lords
It 100% makes sense that Lorgar and Perturabo would become almost flawless chaos undivided princes. Lorgar spent every moment of his life worshipping the gods and found just worshipping them to be its own reward so he would never find one god more desirable than another. Perturabo on the other hand was one of the smartest and strategic primarchs meticulously calculating every battle plan so he would unintentionally serve the gods’ plans due to his nature
This is a very interesting video and has helped me create a champion for my custom warband
is that an Alita Battle Angel t-shirt i see Wes?
Think it's just a rando design from that brand he reps. They have a lot of stuff like that.
Chaos isn't that bad. Sure you look like shit. But living for thousands of years as a warrior king you can live a good life
Bel’akor: “I’m going to scam you, my Lords”
All four chaos gods: “Shit, go ahead my dude” (in some variation)
What do you call it when you splash acid on your nuts and they turn red...
"Sac red."
As a gelbooru user, I serve Slaanesh every damn day!
did ever anyone who is not an Astrate or Primarch managed to rise to the Demon Prince status?
The only one I know of was a noble woman, I think, who summond and then devoured keepers of secrets to keep her youth. Slaanesh was impressed by that and elevated her to daemonhood.
@@camper-xu1di Good to know, cause if there wasn't a way for a regular mortal to ascend, it would make little sense for people even trying,
Be’lakor is a daemon prince that ascended before the creation of the Astartes.
Black Legion for the win!
As much lore is out there a Warhammer 40K animated series I fill would do extremely well
I wonder if the emperor would be counted as one with the chaos gods having hoped to push him into one and all it was going to take was *allowing* himself to absorb it.
He is a god of the immaterium, but so and the likes of Gork and Mork. Are all gods of the immaterium Chaos gods? Does that include the Eldar gods too?
Slannesh no questions take my soul
Most people would think that my leg which needs amputation from infection puts me directly in nurgles inner circle but god damn ill be getting my admech leg when its done.
What about Horus and abaddon? They were blessed by all the gods right? And became the war master of chaos?
Open question to everyone: which chaos god, or gods, would you most like to receive favors from? Or whose eyes would be drawn to you?
Personally, I'd probably end up a Slaaneshi touched follower of grandfather Nurgle...
If I am just a random dude...
Definitely Khorne because I would be too insignificant to torture.
Chaos Undivided, always go Chaos Undivided.
0:56 I didn't know Thanos was a chaos demon!!!
Blood for the blood God
Thats badass to film in the back of your local warhammer shop thats our free market truly at working as it should
🎶Every kill you make, every soul you take, they'll be watching you🎶
having my very own adorable little nurgling would definitely be a blessing 🥰
Slaanesh Nay Nay
Undivided the one alignment you think is rare until you realize Horus was a thing, and all chaos primarchs beside the four were pretty much undivided.
True, but how many primarchs are there compared to the total number of chaos space marine?
one can also make the point that a primarch is a far more capable individual, compared to an astartes.
So for them to balance the needs and wishes of the four would be an easier task.
True .but they , Belicore, and Abby have asked for sugar from all four of the Gods houses. I think the Gods have a bit of leaking sugar bag that other chaos marines can get into like rats. Not saying it's common otherwise the gods would notice more ,but there is pretty good chance there are those who would steal from the Gods pantry of power!@@weshammer
@@camper-xu1di And their a Primarch so the Chaos Gods would be more than willing to put up with whatever in order to have them.
Off-topic question, do we know why it is called the eightfold path? I have done a little bit of research but haven't found the answer.
Khornes number is 8. The eightfold path is the path you walk as you discard everything but rage and bloodlust. The path ends with you dead or a demon prince.
@@franconnorton7087 that is interesting. Why do we use that phrase for chaos in general though?
The symbol of chaos is the eight-pointed star, and the path we walk on when embracing its teachings is the eightfold path. Also, as the other commenter mentioned, eight has spiritual significance to chaos
@@weshammer thank you sir!
@@franconnorton7087 thank you for your insight, that had been bugging me for a long time lol
Apart from daemon primarchs, does Warhammer 40k have other daemon princes?
Yes, there are several unnamed ones and also characters like Be’lakor, the lord of the flies, the war smith, or the eater of lives
Nice work wes
Do you seriously record out of the back of your Warhammer store? if so that is awesomely cool hope it helps keep them going and spreading the fun of gaming....
Was that Strapping Young Lads singer and all round lovely man/superstar, Devon Townshend with a white goatie in your store?! 😂
Its less that Be'lakor was a failed experiment and more that he worked *too* well. If we're supplementing his 40k lore with Fantasy (which I do, because he's in both settings and has more lore in Fantasy.), he was on the road to becoming the 5th Chaos Power and possibly supplanting the Dark Gods. Its why they started stripping much of his power away and creating their own deidcated Princes. They were - and still are - scared of The Dark Master, but he's far too useful to just get rid of. Assuming, of course, they *can* get rid of him.
Whats the store? I'd love to find a way to support them!
If they ever start selling online I will shout them out a bunch!
If Chaos was real, i would hate it so much i would do my best to join the Sons of Malice as a cultist. Malice is the coolest Chaos God and I don't care if he is not canon anymore, he is to me.
The greatest trick Malice ever pulled was convincing everyone he didn't exist! :D
@@AnubisG0D he out-Tzeentched Tzeentch himself
Finally! Some juicy Chaos stuff! For the primordial truth!
I'm curious then, how would you classify entities like the Emperor or Horus, who have passed through the portal and been granted (or stolen) gifts from all of the chaos deities? If Belakor is the only daemon prince of chaos undivided, then what are the two of them?
Why Malice is always left out when we talk about Chaos Gods?
The lore is super inconsistent around the 5th, and as far as I know Malice does'nt have a champion no?
he's not really canon
There isn’t that much to talk about tbh
I was agnostic simply because I didnt have the information. I only lightly researched it as I didnt place too much value on it, but I honestly did sway between them.
Thanks for clearing it up well and concisely.
I suppose its disappoiting but also, not. Can't say I'm particularly complaining about the fact that boat sized meat eaters aren't roaming around.
If you can only select one companion, I'd say cats are stringer than dogs in the meta right now. The human social ability Diversified Labor means most players acquire their food at a distribution center of some type. No need for dogs to help hunt. However, despite resulting in several food storage tech improvements, Diversified Labor has had little impact on the ability of rats, mice, & etc to access a human's stored food. Cats are still hard counters to these scavengers, making them still very relevant in the contemporary meta, especially in city biomes. Dogs are better for protection missions, & they can force a beneficial behavioral trait on human players: Go Outside Several Times A Day. This trait can be really hard for some players to acquire, & it grants a pretty remarkable bundle of stat boosts.
in regards to the irony of the final ascension to daemonhood turning them into eternal slaves of the gods. reminds me of one of my favorite sayings about the chaos gods, from an age of sigmar book (godeater I think) "The gods do not bind us themselves, it is not in their power to do so, rather they teach us to forge our own chains, if we but ask them." (paraphrased, can't remember the exact quote.)
which i think makes them so much more brilliantly insidious, that everyone who ends up enslaved to the gods, does so of their own free will. (even if they don't realize thats what they are doing)
What might be interesting for the game would be the late introduction of the Gods of Law (like those from “Elric of Melniboné”), possibly with a return of the sentient constructs of man. Imagine a faction that does not travel the immaterial paths of the warp, but instead has accomplished a wholly “Empereal” subliminal travel.
Then again, there is also Malice as a fifth Chaos God and isn’t there a machine chaos god, too?