Hey @WesHammer, I had a question for you. The thing is I am from India and have recently got into the warhammer 40k lore, and even though I am loving your videos in crave to read more including novels. But the books are very expensive for me given the fact that they are in pounds or dollars. So is there anyway i can read novels even if they are old according to the setting where I don't sell a kidney or two to read a WH40K novel
In relation to Fabius, he didn't actually clone Fulgrim's soul. The clone he made of Fulgrim unexpectedly had a greater claim to the original Fulgrim, with the soul itself leaving the original Fulgrim and latching onto the Clone. That is what made Clonegrim so perfect, it was a vessel worthy of the soul, effectively making it the true Fulgrim.
I don’t necessarily think that the reason the clone was perfect was the quality of his body, mind, or geneseed. If that were the case then Any of the other dead primarchs other than Horus would have done the same thing. All the primarchs are inherently incredibly pyschic beings and they all have a powerful ties to the warp. It’s clear the primarchs don’t fade, as with some help from the emperor a headless apparition of ferrus Manus led the legion of the damned. While it could just be a light show I think that was a shard of ferrus soul, the fury of the betrayed legions manifesting as what I believe are ever changing ranks of the souls of loyal Astartes strong enough not to fade out in the warp. A normal person couldn’t have a perfect clone. Maybe some xenos can but humans can’t, since they don’t have a warp presence strong enough to maintain their minds. Average Psykers can persist a bit longer, hectic psykers won’t fade naturally but are huge targets for warp spawn. The emperor went through a special portal to the warp for the knowledge and power he needed to give the. Primarchs their souls and redacted the fuck out of what he did there. I say all of this for context so my next statement doesn’t throw anyone off. I think the reason Fulgrims soul was able to choose another vessel was because of 3 things. 1.the conflict between his soul and the demon that forced his fall. He had been tainted, his corruption did not come naturally, he was a bit of a drama queen but he’d have fired on Horus the second he asked him to betray the emperor. 2. The nature of Fulgrims possession The last moments we see a loyal Fulgrim, he is so genuinely full of regret that I don’t think he ever fully exorcised the demons influence on him. He said he did off screen essentially and Fulgrim has acted basically exactly like that demon since. 3. The nature of the primarchs souls. The primarchs were partially beings of the warp. Corvus was given access to the primarch project after Isstvan and he said himself they are not natural. They are from the warp, and has even unlocked an uncorrupted pyschic form that made daemon Lorgar look even more pathetic than Corvus made him look before they powered up. The blood angels are deeply tied to 2 warp angels that are confirmed to be connected to sanginius himself. Magnus was shattered by Leman, and was seen as a traitor but the emperor said to Magnus himself that he alone of his traitor brothers has control of his soul. All of this leads me to my conclusion and end of this 40k dissertation; The perfect clone of Fulgrim was the result of the god soul of Fulgrim remaining intact and uncorrupted after his mind was twisted without his knowledge(eh) and since it was his mind that was fucked, not his soul, it was fully powered and could reject the false claim slaanesh had on his soul. The dead primarchs like Alpharius, or ferrus, had their souls forced from their mortal forms and due to how Magnuss soul was affected by what amounted to a fatal injury, had their souls shattered and no longer have their entire consciousness intact and able to inhabit a cloned body. Fulgrim could because I believe that last moment of regret Fulgrim had, after the demon released his hold on him to make sure he saw what he made him do to his closest brother, and the god soul of Fulgrim gave up on his existence. the mingling of chaos corruption in his mind, his extremely intense shame, self hate and desire for freedom would open up an opportunity to break the demons control over him permanently. Instead of exorcising the demon, he exorcised his true self out of his body. His sudden snap to true lucidity and the intense regret freeing his true self from his corrupted form and the demon became Fulgrim in mind, maybe believing it or delighting in having taken the title of a primarch. Either way, I don’t think it was chance. The primarchs are clearly more than just mortals, and the blood angels lore alongside super raven Corvus, I’m convinced that the primarchs are actually minor warp deities. He could have taken weakened guardian spirits of humanity created from the various pantheons of our past religions and other protective belief. Or he could have bound various unaligned entities and gambled with the gods to let him take them unmolested. Either way, GW needs to explore this concept more because it makes sense and opens so many doors in the lore. Edit: I have more to say but that’s a big ass comment already. Everything from here on is just gonna be a theory/rant about the nature of the primarchs and their souls. If you’re here for clone Fulgrim the rest is unnecessary but if you’re as big a primarch nerd like I am let me know what you y’all think: The biggest question behind the Origin of the primarchs is what power did the emperor need to make them and why did he go to one specific place to get that power. If he had just bargained with chaos he could have done that from his living room. I think Molech takes you to a true neutral section of the warp. The warp is beyond time, but it is not beyond all limits. If chaos didntt exist at first, even for those who used the warp often, then that means that the warp is never actually in true chaos everywhere. It can’t be, or else their influence on time and sentient awareness makes no sense. Khorne couldn’t have been around ul and ready to rock before the war in heaven because why didn’t he just pre empt that shit and invade? I see the warp like quantum instability. There are infinitely many possible states the warp can be in, and is in, regardless of how that contradicts real space astrophysics. The distinction isn’t when, it’s “where” if the warp was calm once, there are places it is just as calm now, but are so hard to reach you need have a direct path to it, because you’ll never find it in the ever changing warp. That’s the portal on Moloch is for. I think that portal takes you to a part of the warp that is entirely autonomous and no one being can force their will on another. This means lesser warp spawn than the pantheon and independent chaotic entities like Drach’nyn can reside where the chaos gods cannot touch them, and they can only bargain for power, Or knowledge, not dominate the wills of new born or passive warp spawn. That’s why it was such a secret because it was essentially a direct access point to the home of the most helpful warp entities. The chaos gods can make mortals offers but in that realm even they can’t force you to kneel, but neither can the neurtral entities stop a mortal or worse, minor warp cumstain make an only fans with slaanesh. The emperor went there and offered the 20 most powerful of these entities an offer of mutual benefit. The emperor would create them forms that could contain their power, and to bring the fight to the gods from the realm of the fuel source of the warp. The emperor gets them to agree to take inhabit an immortal, extremely powerful and advanced body, in exchange they will free mankind from the shackles of old night and be their protectors, under the condition that they don’t retain their memories of godhood until after the crusade is over. The 20 entities counter with a condition of their own. If they were to forget themselves and believe they are simply his sons, then the deal wouldn’t be binding. He doesn’t control their souls, they are Allys that can individually choose to serve or not. The traitor primarchs were a mix of rebellious gods who didn’t wanna serve anyone, like Mortarion, others were more unstable or less trusting of him, like Konrad or perturabo. Some were more likely to side with chaos given an offer than others but there were a few interesting cases when it comes to their fate. Angron. I know it’s said his soul belongs to khorne, but I honestly believe the nails compromised his god souls ability to inhabit that vessel since he no longer feels empathy and that was his core trait. I think his uncorrupted soul is j the warp and just isn’t interested in helping after his luck the first time. Fulgrim: see above. Sanginius: the dark and light angel serve as a yin and Yang type dynamic, and forcing both aspects into sanginius explains his gene flaws and the black rage. Konrad: I think he’s intact actually, or rather split. I think part of him wants to try again knowing better but the other believes he’s been vindicated and doesn’t care. Perturabo. If GW doesn’t make vashtoor an ally and supplier of a way to plug his soul leak, then they are wrong because that makes more sense than him just randomly deciding to submit to chaos by ascending through them. Alpharius: Redacted. Magnus: Kaldor Draigo and the previous gray night grand master is the unknowing host of the noble shard of Magnus the red. By taking a host like Draigo he can keep the crimson king away from him and devise a plan to unfuck the galaxy. Horus: doesn’t chaos have a sliver of his soul in the god’s possession or is that old lore? The lost primarchs: The 2nd; corrupted by the rangdan and killed by Leman during the Xenocide, fracturing his soul and scattering him. The names of a primarch is a powerful thing, and the warp listens. If the soul of the 2nd is broken but pure then it’s a loss. If he’s been corrupted then speaking g his name might awaken something nightmarish. Hence malcador almost aborting Horus The 11th; I believe the 11th was the host of malal, where he had his geneseed corrupted” and was lost to the imperium, his untainted sons getting hit with the men in black pen and becoming ultramarines. In reality his issue was the fact that malice, Malal, whatever, is going to scale to the chaos gods eventually do to his antithetical ties to them. His body was capable of containing his soul at first, but quickly became more and more unstable to the point that he was bursting his body apart with his growing power.
Fulgrim went through a slightly different version of what Galen "Starkiller" Marek from Star Wars Legends/Expanded Universe went through. and Fulgrim, like Starkiller, only became better for it.
@@yanlopez674 listen dude I saw this video after I took fuckload of adderal, so once I started typing it was over. Would you believe me that the comment as it is now is only half as long as it was at first? I was in the zone fr
Fabius Bile is actually one of the most sane and rational Emperor's children marines left in the galaxy. Which says a lot about what kind of state the purple boys are in now.
@@ianstratton3677 he refuses to worship chaos, even denying that deamons are truly sentient but just "intelligent warp-cancers", he dosn't believe in abbadons goals and pursues his own path, and the "new men" he created are genetically engineered using some of the upgrades from astartes, but just the basics of strength, speed and endurance, but stable enough to be passed on through normal reproduction eventually. proving the emperor wrong, by having enhanced men and women successfully. He has been experimenting with eldar wraithbone and soulstone tech and used it to enter the webway.
@@ianstratton3677he's often expressing the lack of meaning behind the imperium and chaos as a whole. He understands, similar to that of the audience, that neither can exist in full power because they simply are designed to wage war. This is why he abandoned the siege of terra. He perceived that it mattered not if the emperor lived or died. On the contrary, he wants to replace humanity with his own creations so, he's very same in practicality of everyone else's goal, he's not about his own, or just way overconfident.
I can imagine him just mumbling "uhuh, yeah, yeah, great mate.listen, i have to go... so...", slowly backs away thinking to himslef "holy fuck what was that? did that just happen?"
I agree with you Wes about how terrifying a zealot is. A mass murdering madman is bad. But one who has absolute faith in his cause and the charisma to bring others to his way of thinking is a nightmare.
A fanatic doesn't have to believe in something, a fanatic who believes in nothing is FAR scarier, or a fanatic who only believes in themself. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, even Hitler, if Putin found out he was dying tomorrow what's to stop him from launching all his nukes, besides his aides hopefully having common sense.
Make good attack dogs. Terrible track record as leaders of anything larger than a small group. Gotta keep the leash short and collar tight. Then you have a worthwhile squad leader with Neverending morale. Then it's just finding the right place to put them. The only thing that's terrifying about them is when they are free to self determine. Gotta have someone they are beholden to other than themselves.
Curze's book actually gives great insight into his character SPOILER He recognizes that he did all he did because he liked it. Not for justice, not for higher purpose, but because he was a truly sick individual. He hated his legion, not because they didn't follow his teachings, but because they held a mirror to his face. Ironically, his fatalism sprung from his own sense of justice. He saw his death in a vision and sought to see that vision through, because to him, a creature like him deserved nothing better. He's an incredible character study on the dangers of self-hatred.
My best friend introduced me to his story, and it sucked me into Primarch lore. This video and his story perfectly illustrate why I've always found Lawful Good to be the most terrifying alignment, not only in terms of its ideology, but in terms of the way people like Curze and Lorgar - who identify as Lawful Good - can wreak so much havoc and horror in its name. Note: Warhammer gives Chaos a whole new meaning; when it comes to the psychology of mere mortals, Chaotic Evil burns itself the hell out. I don't know if the Chaos Gods themselves qualify as evil, necessarily, although there are certainly races who act in their name who are. The Imperium and Craftworld Biel-Tan certainly don't need any help from chaos to be nasty. I'd rather run afoul of the Necrons instead of the Inquisitors or AdMech. Morality in 40k can be an extremely interesting subject. The Old Ones' decision to abandon the Necrontyr, and their creation of entire sentient races to fight them. The Orks' particularly charming variant of what I perceive to be True Neutral. So many fascinating stories, scenarios, and creatures. The Tyranids just being... Tyranids. The fact that they act as gene banks for every species they've ever annihilated has really neat implications for the resurrection of species, especially if genetic memory exists in 40k. I'm sorry I've been rambling so much in your comments. I don't have many opportunities to talk about my love of Warhammer lore, its societies and social dynamics... people's eyes usually begin to glaze over within a few minutes of me beginning to talk about the Eldar factions. The dark city of Comorragh is literally R'yleh. How could I not get enthusiastic?
Lorgar talking to Magnus in Betrayer is by far one of my favourite parts in that book. The way he talks about the warp, about the gods, it’s so insane and yet, inspiring at the same time. Not in a way, yeah I agree, but in a, I can see how and why you’d believe that
Yeah I can see why Lorgar would be so… enthusiastic about mass murder on a scale it shatters the veil into hell itself but I mean, it’s not like he’s doing it for nothing there is in fact many demons that want to drop into the battle royale. What’s terrifying isn’t that he believes in these gods. They call themselves gods and they have enough power that I can t blame people for agreeing with them. I see them as extra dimensional emotional parasites that have a feedback loop with certain mortal species. Powerful, yes, but gods? Not even close. The warp is beyond time but it’s fuel and it’s prey is not. There was never a moment in the warp any of them truly began, but there were moments they awoke. The warp was calm in tbe beginning, the gods existing forever as possibilities for the future of the mortal observation of the warp. They are center stage in almost every future but they need mortals to stay that way. If all life died, they’d very quickly wither. It takes time for power to build but having your power source destroyed is guaranteed unmaking. The 4 are whatever we all them. How the warp interacts with mortals is based on the dominant vibe of the galaxy and let’s just say the Milky Way needs to smoke at least 5 pounds of weed and chill out
@ianharrison5758 what a silly distinction. In this universe they are gods. Unless you have something else to give as an example of a real god in 40k, claiming them not to be means nothing.
I'm so glad Fabius Bile gets mentioned on here. He's such a cool yet terrifying character in the lore,especially with him being the only human to study with The Drukhari instead of being the subject of said studies. I'm glad he got some spotlight here!
The really disturbing part is that the drukari do not do anything without gaining something from it. Which means they only let Bile study with them because he had methods of sadism and torture they had not learned yet. Now that's disturbing.
I actually had a dream about conrad's ship last night based on a novel where they explain how every inch of the ship was covered in humans that were turned into living furniture. I remember seeing in my dream how a couch contained a still moving human sewed into the material. Walls of moving hands, and faces with still faces of pain and agony. Weather this was a dream that was a manifistation of the flight or fight response is beyond me. All i know is that it was deeply fascinating how my brain could take something i causally listened to on Audible, and recreate it to such an extent it was almost like i was walking on his flagship in reality.
Check out SCP-6624 Il Maestro del Rancore. It's a musical device similar to an organ except its made entirely out of 124 living humans. There's a bunch of keyboards and levers so regular people can't play it. But they build a machine to play it and depending on the song the person listening kills other or themselves and other stuff. There's way more to it the channel The Exploring Series has a great video on it.
If you want a disturbing character, I suggest The Shrike from the Hyperion Cantos, literally an ancient robot who's only purpose is to inflict endless suffering
it certainly is a disturbing entity but id argue that the shrike is more meant to be a force of nature, a plot device to shape the greater story. Since it was (presumably) created by the Reaper faction of the technocore, its arguably neutral to all parties of the ongoing conflict. Its purpose is definetly NOT to inflict endless suffering tho.
Galatea, from the Forges of Mars omnibus is also freaky. Just a cool, collected psychopath apparent AI that collects human brains like Ash catches Pokémon.
I found the bikura unsettling the fact that this could actually happen to people and has happened is crazy the entire portion feels unbeilivably fucking uncanny and of course the lightning tree with the professor on it
@@shad3revo111 Now there’s a list of difficult choices. Though for me, Magnus would be very much near the top of that list, together with Khayon’s sister. It was so telling in the ‘Master of Mankind’ when the Emperor goes something like ‘I don’t know why they call me father, they’re not my sons, they’re tools’. In addition to this video: - I was thinking of those abominations cited in the Vaults of Terra series, that hunt through the undercrofts as a result of the Dark Eldar brought there. - Also: there is this super interesting book (I can’t recall the name) where you follow a bunch of loyal marines that sabotage a ‘Chaos Marines Factory’. It’s probably one of the most horrific and explicit stories I’ve yet seen in 40k, together with the Lords of Silence/Infected soldiers on Guilleman’s planet arc
On the red wake, there are rumors that the space sharks gene-seed is hybrid night lord/raven guard & the sharks at one point out did some night lords at their preferred form of warfare. Astartes can also gain the knowledge of their enemies by eating their brains.
Are you talking about Zartak? I actually remember a mention of the connection between Night Lords and Carcharodons from the Red Tithe book I am equal parts impressed and horrifyed by the Carcharodons' silence and stoic disposition while knowing that the blood thirst is raging within ... It seems akin to Sanguinius's condition, no?
They are created from the Raven Guards new and improved gene seed which was given to him by the Emperor to help Corvus rebuild his legion. Alpha legion corrupted the gene seed which led to mutations very similar to the Sharks. The Red Wake is primarch sized, his face is rarely seen but it's said he's extremely mutated which blends well with Corvus being changed by warp. Plus the entire legion acts like Corvus. It would be interesting if Corvus used Night Lords gene seed to stabilize the corruption of the new gene seed. It's known that Night Lords have some of the purist gene seed. It's seen by many brothers who have been near the eye for 10k years with almost no mutation.
@@borisdorofeev5602 oh wow! So cool! I actually know most of these facts in isolation from recent videos I've watched, but haven't yet put them together into one such theory (I am fairly new and haven't "internalized" all the lore just yet) so your comment offered some interesting insight, thanks :D
@@borisdorofeev5602 I’m pretty sure Corax gave all of the corrupted Raven guard (the new ones) the emperors mercy the space sharks I think are the old raven guard (before Corax was found) Corax banished them to the dark edges of space and they are still going after all this time. I think their gene seed has just degraded over the last 10 thousand years, Konrad was quoted saying he actually hated Corax because of his abilities saying he haunted the night but Corax owned it so it makes sense they can beat the night lords at their own game.
I just got into Warhammer like 2 weeks ago, and I already feel like I’ve learned so much because of these videos thank you Weshammer keep up the amazing work hope all is well!
In regards to the fullgrim clone stuff, it's not so much that he cloned the soul somehow. It just appeared up one day. My guess is his primarch soul was just vibing in the warp, and then he isekai'd himself into... himself. The warp is weird.
I find Konrad Curze especially fascinating because he was one of only two traitor primarchs that didn't fully give himself over to chaos (the other being Alpharius). And yet Curze is still among the worst of the worst. Something something man is the true monsters.
Conrad Kurze's death is probably a reference to Col. Kurtz from Apocalypse Now, which itself was based on Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Conrad Kurze gets both of their names.
It's so cool seeing your growth as a creator both when it comes to subscribers and video quality! Keep up the amazing work and thank you for the great videos!
I like Lorgar. He was the only Primarch to beat chaos on his plane and replace it with the worshiping of the emperor before he was even found. And then orchestrating the heresy and winding up Horus and watching him go.
Absolutely awesome video! Yeah the one that freaked me out as a kid was the night bringer but back then we didn't know much about the necrons so that added to the horror 😅 there's so many things in 40k that are terrifying so it's honestly hard to pick but this list definitely picked out some of the most horrifying ones. Definitely sharing this video with a few friends
I feel like the Lorgar spot should've got to Erebus the high Chaplain of the Word bearers ,formally the head of a chaos cult on the Word Bearer homewold of Cholcis, he was able to keep his true faith under wraps and was able to convince Lorgar to turn down the path of damnation, he was the one who ensured the corruption of Horus, literally most if not all of Chaos's victories in the modern day and age can be traced back to this man and most disturbingly he is still alive to my knowledge
Weshammer is a fun RUclips channel that that i have never skipped his videos i love to learn new things every day. And since i am a new necron player i loved hearing illuminor szeras.
In e&td 2 he cast off his humanity so much so when he saw Sangy crucified his only response was cut him down but then he tell Horus I forgive you and I'll wait for you at the end so who knows how much is left in him
Great video as always I really hope you do a deep dive in the arks of omen (maybe a hour, hour and a half video to talk about as much as possible if you're up to it I know/ have an idea how difficult it is to make videos) I'm really hoping someone (hopefully you) do this a well as a deep into each primarch
13:23 I’ve killed so many in space marine 2 do they carry the memories of your fights with them and like hold grudges? Because they seem hella aggressive when they spot me
I am all about the Drukhari, but, seeing Conrad at no.1 my reaction was "yeah, thats fair". At least the Drukhari inflict pain and suffering for necessity, to a degree, Conrad has no such reason, just the fact he likes it. That is more horrifying. Great video!
I rarely comment on YT but I had to say that your portrayal of Lorgar was OUTSTANDING. Very well done dude! Exactly how I imagined him in the books, with that egarness and passion for his views 🥺
My only issue with the section on Lorgar is that everything you said about him being a fanatic/ Zealot you could apply this to any of the loyal Primarchs or space marines as well. They all do what they do regardless of how vicious it is, that's how they bring worlds you won't bend the knee to compliance by killing them to the point of annihilation. The emperor killed a planet just to prove a point kinda says it's all too.
Man, I've just gotta say thank you for making these videos. 40K has always seemed like one of the most interesting stories being made, but years ago when I tried to get into it my local GW was... less than stellar. Thanks to you, I'm always able to get a nice dose of grimdark, without dealing with assholes and a broken bank.
I've only been checking out 40K for a year or so. Read a free books, listened to some audiobooks and podcasts, etc. Whenever a Haemonculi is in the mix, I always have a brief thought wondering if a Haemonculi is a Cenobite that's achieved apotheosis, or the other way around.
I think Lorgar is a tragic story. The Emperor should have allowed Lorgar and his followers to be full-time converters. His domain would have been that much more devoted, and he would also have a defense legion that was on home-turf in case of invasion. The whole burning the chapel thing was part of his own downfall imo.
Well, i absolutely agree with you that Konrad Curze is no.1 disturbing character. He didn't do those horrible things because he's corrupted by the Gods, he did it by his own maddened will. That's why i absolutely like him, he's the living proof that in 40k, you don't need to be tainted by Chaos to do some scary stuff, you just need to be cruel enough.
I swear that so many issue in the warhammer 40k universe can be simply resolve with some good old mental health therapy. This is something that i have been researching is why in the Emperor Name there isn't a single psychologist or psychiatrist in the ENTIRE Imperium. Why did the Emperor NEVER even remotely tried bringing mental health professionals. After all, the Imperial creed is all about reason and you would think PSYCHOLOGY would be something that they would STRONGLY support and study.
Even better as even Sevatar calls Curze out on his bullcrap, although of course like always the madlad just keeps doubling down refusing to entertain the possibility his whole ideology was a mistake.
he was the most humane of the imperium at the time compared to the systematic cleansing of the ultramarines, the slow death of the alpha legion, the mindless slaughter of the wolves the night lords took a few marines and killed a very low amount of people in the most horrifying manner so that more would never even consider rebellion kurze was the only primarch that understood humanity and understood compassion the only one not so blinded by arrogance that they tortured trillions with life instead of 10 with death
@@ashardalondragnipurake hehe, that’s not how it went. In the short story Prince of Crows Sevatar (who’s getting real tired of Curze’s antics) tells Curze that they’re not doing a very good job bringing worlds into compliance as they often rebel afterwards. Instead they torture people because they just really like it, the mad psychos lol. Curze is basically lying to himself to justify his sadism.
I'd say the Emperor is the scariest character in 40k. What is he, really? Is he really right to plunge humanity into endless war and stagnation? Who made him judge, jury and executioner of possibly thousands of civilizations? There had to be a better way than his lies, genocides, and hypocrizy. The more you think about it, the more it makes sense he is just a collection of power-mad souls who will stop at nothing in their war against Chaos. No sacrifice too great, no attrocity too vile, anything to fight their losing war... even humanity is just another tool of war to be used and spent like ammunition. Right or wrong, the Emperor is utterly horrifying.
This video got me to pick up Curze's novel and Wes, Thank you for the recommendation. Just finished it yesterday, solid listen. I'm now on Angron's novel. Curze is a total psych-out or rather lack of, character to learn about. That was also my 5th ever 40k book I've listened too. Keep up the awesome work.
There was a specific short story (Abomination, narrated by Vox in the Void) that was, in my opinion, one of the darkest stories in 40k. It dealt with an Imperium noble, his aide and the Mechanicus and ended in a horribly gruesome way. I absolutely recommend checking it out and the channel as a whole (I swear I’m neither affiliated with them nor intentionally plugging) but HOLY SHIT I was tryna sleep and that went out the window that night
i like how wes admitedly stated that the most disturbing things in the galaxy all walk in 2 legs, like inflicting pain and have pointy ears before giving us a list of the 9 other beings that come close.
Goge Vandire being here in the list is understandable. His obsession for feet and zeal in editing his Wiki feet website is one to be truly horrified at.
I wish Lorgar became more spiteful to the emperor, rather than turning planets just claiming each one couldn’t be reasoned with and commuting genocide, destroying everything, leave nothing worth of salvage every time. Give the emperor nothing but ash. I feel like that would’ve been wonderful to see from Lorgar, since the emperor would’ve had to allow it to continue.
I think the saddest thing about Curze "the Night Haunter" is that he and Corvus Corax of the Raven Guard were the two sides of the same coin. Their forces used verry similar tactics, Stealth, infiltration, strike the enemy from an unexpected position. The difference is that Cruze bombed his own planet into dust, Corax did everything he could to save his.
Ahhh good ol' Edgelord Lorgar. Can't have a dark list of dark grimdarkness without the Word Bearers and their Primarch. Seriously though, as always, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. You really do put next-level amounts of research into each one, and I really appreciate and respect that. Keep being awesome dude!
Let's take a moment to consider how Szeras must be horrifying to the captured Eldars. Because not only their last years of life will be nothing but unimaginable agony. But also because they know that for them, there is no escapatory in death, since Slaanesh will do the same or worst ater.
I think the old Sith are pretty scary and comparable to the warp gods because their power is immense and they are quite depraved. Not to mention how selfish and cold-hearted they are. Many people forget that the empire only allowed humans to serve in the galactic empire making them similar to the imperium. And Darth Bane tricked and wiped out the entire Sith army because he thought they were weak and installed the rule of two, While convinced he was the sith'ari or "chosen one".
I had trouble going to sleep after hearing Lorgar’s monologue to Magnus. I agree, fanatics are the scariest type of villain. They are willing to give anything, ANYTHING, for their own goals, even if it means the deaths of billions. That is truly terrifying to think about.
Fabius is one of my favourite characters, but he wasn't until he got his own trilogy. He's always been portrayed as this cookie cutter mad scientist, but in his own novel we learn about his philosophy, his beliefs, the reasoning behind his actions, and what his goals are. In short, he wants the salvation of humanity, just like the Emperor wants, just with different goals, and he is such an atheist that he looked SLAANESH in the face and told it it didn't exist. He is a relentless scientist, a driven researcher, and he is the ONLY one that is right, in his own mind. A fantastic character and a fantastic villians, and can't wait to see more of him in the future.
Have you ever thought of doing a video of some of the more obscure engines of destruction? Everyone knows of the Imperium's Titan Legions, but few know of the time Nemesor Zahndrekh took the old Megalith for a spin to give the Imperium a good paddlin', or even the Æonic Orb.
Man I was so stoked about the carcharodons a few years ago when I nabbed physical copies of the books, such a let down. Literally half of the books are following a human female from her perspective. Same with Brutal Kunin, half is from the mechanicus pov. Maybe that's just a personal issue, but the carcharodons should have been the only pov in their books, and orks the only pov in theirs.
Konrad Curze also had a puppet thing made of corpses that he stitched together that he talked to as his father. I’m not going to tell you what happens in the last chapter with this puppet but it’s really cool
The part of Curzes Screaming Gallery reminds me of a moment in a recent warhammer game were you stumble upon a Drukhari board game made out of a living rune prophet.
Hyperion of the Grey Knights. An unique grey knight since he is not a psyker, but instead is a psykik mirror. He is able to mimic the psykik abilities of those around him and even draw power from those around him. He served in the first war of Armaghedon were he SHATTERED ANGRON'S BLACK BLADE!!! If he was able to do this as a recruit imagine what he could do if he was near someone like Magnus the Red
In my opinion lorgar was not a bad man from the start, je was just deeply dedicated to making sure the worlds he conquered wouldn't rebel or cause means of heresy. I think the Emperor could and should have talked it out with Lorgar like a father and son and I believe he was just a naive man.
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Hey wes
2nd lol
The waffel house has found its new host
Hey @WesHammer, I had a question for you. The thing is I am from India and have recently got into the warhammer 40k lore, and even though I am loving your videos in crave to read more including novels. But the books are very expensive for me given the fact that they are in pounds or dollars. So is there anyway i can read novels even if they are old according to the setting where I don't sell a kidney or two to read a WH40K novel
A Interaction for the Interaction God, a Comment for the Comment Throne, for the Almighty Algorithm
*continues to sip coffee listening about galactic horrors*
Can confirm, 7:40am US west coast, watching this with a fresh cup of coffee lol
-Raises cup in agreement.-
Galactic horrors ☕
Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha
*Sips cup of coffee*
Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha
Listening to before going into work.
Yes Terry your wife’s cooking is horrid. /s
May I join u? 🚬🦛☕️
In relation to Fabius, he didn't actually clone Fulgrim's soul. The clone he made of Fulgrim unexpectedly had a greater claim to the original Fulgrim, with the soul itself leaving the original Fulgrim and latching onto the Clone. That is what made Clonegrim so perfect, it was a vessel worthy of the soul, effectively making it the true Fulgrim.
I don’t necessarily think that the reason the clone was perfect was the quality of his body, mind, or geneseed. If that were the case then Any of the other dead primarchs other than Horus would have done the same thing. All the primarchs are inherently incredibly pyschic beings and they all have a powerful ties to the warp. It’s clear the primarchs don’t fade, as with some help from the emperor a headless apparition of ferrus Manus led the legion of the damned. While it could just be a light show I think that was a shard of ferrus soul, the fury of the betrayed legions manifesting as what I believe are ever changing ranks of the souls of loyal Astartes strong enough not to fade out in the warp. A normal person couldn’t have a perfect clone. Maybe some xenos can but humans can’t, since they don’t have a warp presence strong enough to maintain their minds. Average Psykers can persist a bit longer, hectic psykers won’t fade naturally but are huge targets for warp spawn. The emperor went through a special portal to the warp for the knowledge and power he needed to give the. Primarchs their souls and redacted the fuck out of what he did there.
I say all of this for context so my next statement doesn’t throw anyone off. I think the reason Fulgrims soul was able to choose another vessel was because of 3 things.
1.the conflict between his soul and the demon that forced his fall. He had been tainted, his corruption did not come naturally, he was a bit of a drama queen but he’d have fired on Horus the second he asked him to betray the emperor.
2. The nature of Fulgrims possession
The last moments we see a loyal Fulgrim, he is so genuinely full of regret that I don’t think he ever fully exorcised the demons influence on him. He said he did off screen essentially and Fulgrim has acted basically exactly like that demon since.
3. The nature of the primarchs souls.
The primarchs were partially beings of the warp. Corvus was given access to the primarch project after Isstvan and he said himself they are not natural. They are from the warp, and has even unlocked an uncorrupted pyschic form that made daemon Lorgar look even more pathetic than Corvus made him look before they powered up. The blood angels are deeply tied to 2 warp angels that are confirmed to be connected to sanginius himself.
Magnus was shattered by Leman, and was seen as a traitor but the emperor said to Magnus himself that he alone of his traitor brothers has control of his soul.
All of this leads me to my conclusion and end of this 40k dissertation;
The perfect clone of Fulgrim was the result of the god soul of Fulgrim remaining intact and uncorrupted after his mind was twisted without his knowledge(eh) and since it was his mind that was fucked, not his soul, it was fully powered and could reject the false claim slaanesh had on his soul.
The dead primarchs like Alpharius, or ferrus, had their souls forced from their mortal forms and due to how Magnuss soul was affected by what amounted to a fatal injury, had their souls shattered and no longer have their entire consciousness intact and able to inhabit a cloned body.
Fulgrim could because I believe that last moment of regret Fulgrim had, after the demon released his hold on him to make sure he saw what he made him do to his closest brother, and the god soul of Fulgrim gave up on his existence.
the mingling of chaos corruption in his mind, his extremely intense shame, self hate and desire for freedom would open up an opportunity to break the demons control over him permanently.
Instead of exorcising the demon, he exorcised his true self out of his body. His sudden snap to true lucidity and the intense regret freeing his true self from his corrupted form and the demon became Fulgrim in mind, maybe believing it or delighting in having taken the title of a primarch.
Either way, I don’t think it was chance. The primarchs are clearly more than just mortals, and the blood angels lore alongside super raven Corvus, I’m convinced that the primarchs are actually minor warp deities. He could have taken weakened guardian spirits of humanity created from the various pantheons of our past religions and other protective belief. Or he could have bound various unaligned entities and gambled with the gods to let him take them unmolested.
Either way, GW needs to explore this concept more because it makes sense and opens so many doors in the lore.
Edit: I have more to say but that’s a big ass comment already. Everything from here on is just gonna be a theory/rant about the nature of the primarchs and their souls. If you’re here for clone Fulgrim the rest is unnecessary but if you’re as big a primarch nerd like I am let me know what you y’all think:
The biggest question behind the Origin of the primarchs is what power did the emperor need to make them and why did he go to one specific place to get that power. If he had just bargained with chaos he could have done that from his living room. I think Molech takes you to a true neutral section of the warp. The warp is beyond time, but it is not beyond all limits. If chaos didntt exist at first, even for those who used the warp often, then that means that the warp is never actually in true chaos everywhere. It can’t be, or else their influence on time and sentient awareness makes no sense. Khorne couldn’t have been around ul and ready to rock before the war in heaven because why didn’t he just pre empt that shit and invade? I see the warp like quantum instability. There are infinitely many possible states the warp can be in, and is in, regardless of how that contradicts real space astrophysics. The distinction isn’t when, it’s “where” if the warp was calm once, there are places it is just as calm now, but are so hard to reach you need have a direct path to it, because you’ll never find it in the ever changing warp.
That’s the portal on Moloch is for. I think that portal takes you to a part of the warp that is entirely autonomous and no one being can force their will on another. This means lesser warp spawn than the pantheon and independent chaotic entities like Drach’nyn can reside where the chaos gods cannot touch them, and they can only bargain for power, Or knowledge, not dominate the wills of new born or passive warp spawn.
That’s why it was such a secret because it was essentially a direct access point to the home of the most helpful warp entities. The chaos gods can make mortals offers but in that realm even they can’t force you to kneel, but neither can the neurtral entities stop a mortal or worse, minor warp cumstain make an only fans with slaanesh.
The emperor went there and offered the 20 most powerful of these entities an offer of mutual benefit. The emperor would create them forms that could contain their power, and to bring the fight to the gods from the realm of the fuel source of the warp. The emperor gets them to agree to take inhabit an immortal, extremely powerful and advanced body, in exchange they will free mankind from the shackles of old night and be their protectors, under the condition that they don’t retain their memories of godhood until after the crusade is over. The 20 entities counter with a condition of their own. If they were to forget themselves and believe they are simply his sons, then the deal wouldn’t be binding. He doesn’t control their souls, they are Allys that can individually choose to serve or not.
The traitor primarchs were a mix of rebellious gods who didn’t wanna serve anyone, like Mortarion, others were more unstable or less trusting of him, like Konrad or perturabo. Some were more likely to side with chaos given an offer than others but there were a few interesting cases when it comes to their fate.
Angron. I know it’s said his soul belongs to khorne, but I honestly believe the nails compromised his god souls ability to inhabit that vessel since he no longer feels empathy and that was his core trait. I think his uncorrupted soul is j the warp and just isn’t interested in helping after his luck the first time.
Fulgrim: see above.
Sanginius: the dark and light angel serve as a yin and Yang type dynamic, and forcing both aspects into sanginius explains his gene flaws and the black rage.
Konrad: I think he’s intact actually, or rather split. I think part of him wants to try again knowing better but the other believes he’s been vindicated and doesn’t care.
Perturabo. If GW doesn’t make vashtoor an ally and supplier of a way to plug his soul leak, then they are wrong because that makes more sense than him just randomly deciding to submit to chaos by ascending through them.
Alpharius: Redacted.
Magnus: Kaldor Draigo and the previous gray night grand master is the unknowing host of the noble shard of Magnus the red. By taking a host like Draigo he can keep the crimson king away from him and devise a plan to unfuck the galaxy.
Horus: doesn’t chaos have a sliver of his soul in the god’s possession or is that old lore?
The lost primarchs:
The 2nd; corrupted by the rangdan and killed by Leman during the Xenocide, fracturing his soul and scattering him. The names
of a primarch is a powerful thing, and the warp listens. If the soul of the 2nd is broken but pure then it’s a loss. If he’s been corrupted then speaking g his name might awaken something nightmarish. Hence malcador almost aborting Horus
The 11th; I believe the 11th was the host of malal, where he had his geneseed corrupted” and was lost to the imperium, his untainted sons getting hit with the men in black pen and becoming ultramarines. In reality his issue was the fact that malice, Malal, whatever, is going to scale to the chaos gods eventually do to his antithetical ties to them. His body was capable of containing his soul at first, but quickly became more and more unstable to the point that he was bursting his body apart with his growing power.
Fulgrim went through a slightly different version of what Galen "Starkiller" Marek from Star Wars Legends/Expanded Universe went through. and Fulgrim, like Starkiller, only became better for it.
@@ianharrison5758 o
@@ianharrison5758 Damn, man's got that Theories in Warhammer 40k PhD
@@yanlopez674 listen dude I saw this video after I took fuckload of adderal, so once I started typing it was over. Would you believe me that the comment as it is now is only half as long as it was at first? I was in the zone fr
Fabius Bile is actually one of the most sane and rational Emperor's children marines left in the galaxy. Which says a lot about what kind of state the purple boys are in now.
That's like being the most polite World Eater lol.
How can he be sane?
@@ianstratton3677 he refuses to worship chaos, even denying that deamons are truly sentient but just "intelligent warp-cancers", he dosn't believe in abbadons goals and pursues his own path, and the "new men" he created are genetically engineered using some of the upgrades from astartes, but just the basics of strength, speed and endurance, but stable enough to be passed on through normal reproduction eventually. proving the emperor wrong, by having enhanced men and women successfully. He has been experimenting with eldar wraithbone and soulstone tech and used it to enter the webway.
It's relative...
@@ianstratton3677he's often expressing the lack of meaning behind the imperium and chaos as a whole. He understands, similar to that of the audience, that neither can exist in full power because they simply are designed to wage war. This is why he abandoned the siege of terra. He perceived that it mattered not if the emperor lived or died.
On the contrary, he wants to replace humanity with his own creations so, he's very same in practicality of everyone else's goal, he's not about his own, or just way overconfident.
I can only imagine Magnus slowly backing away as Lorgar having a villain monologue.
"That's uh that's great buddy I'll be over here totally not calling dad on you not at all just keep chatting"
Magnus was really thinking "I'm related to THIS useless asshole?"
@@itmademesignup9508 "Man I knew dad fucked up but this is a whole other kinda warpfuck"
just staring at him while reaching for the doorknob
I can imagine him just mumbling "uhuh, yeah, yeah, great mate.listen, i have to go... so...", slowly backs away thinking to himslef "holy fuck what was that? did that just happen?"
I agree with you Wes about how terrifying a zealot is. A mass murdering madman is bad. But one who has absolute faith in his cause and the charisma to bring others to his way of thinking is a nightmare.
A fanatic doesn't have to believe in something, a fanatic who believes in nothing is FAR scarier, or a fanatic who only believes in themself. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, even Hitler, if Putin found out he was dying tomorrow what's to stop him from launching all his nukes, besides his aides hopefully having common sense.
Def.
Also The emperor is basically the Antichrist. But nvm
Make good attack dogs. Terrible track record as leaders of anything larger than a small group. Gotta keep the leash short and collar tight. Then you have a worthwhile squad leader with Neverending morale. Then it's just finding the right place to put them.
The only thing that's terrifying about them is when they are free to self determine. Gotta have someone they are beholden to other than themselves.
Curze's book actually gives great insight into his character
SPOILER
He recognizes that he did all he did because he liked it. Not for justice, not for higher purpose, but because he was a truly sick individual. He hated his legion, not because they didn't follow his teachings, but because they held a mirror to his face. Ironically, his fatalism sprung from his own sense of justice. He saw his death in a vision and sought to see that vision through, because to him, a creature like him deserved nothing better. He's an incredible character study on the dangers of self-hatred.
And he likes to eat your leg
In a world of daddy issues he's a eye roll
Curze = curse
@@ryanpiper7669 gotta love when the shallow daddy issues meme makes its way into actual lore conversations.
My best friend introduced me to his story, and it sucked me into Primarch lore.
This video and his story perfectly illustrate why I've always found Lawful Good to be the most terrifying alignment, not only in terms of its ideology, but in terms of the way people like Curze and Lorgar - who identify as Lawful Good - can wreak so much havoc and horror in its name.
Note: Warhammer gives Chaos a whole new meaning; when it comes to the psychology of mere mortals, Chaotic Evil burns itself the hell out.
I don't know if the Chaos Gods themselves qualify as evil, necessarily, although there are certainly races who act in their name who are.
The Imperium and Craftworld Biel-Tan certainly don't need any help from chaos to be nasty. I'd rather run afoul of the Necrons instead of the Inquisitors or AdMech.
Morality in 40k can be an extremely interesting subject.
The Old Ones' decision to abandon the Necrontyr, and their creation of entire sentient races to fight them.
The Orks' particularly charming variant of what I perceive to be True Neutral.
So many fascinating stories, scenarios, and creatures.
The Tyranids just being... Tyranids.
The fact that they act as gene banks for every species they've ever annihilated has really neat implications for the resurrection of species, especially if genetic memory exists in 40k.
I'm sorry I've been rambling so much in your comments. I don't have many opportunities to talk about my love of Warhammer lore, its societies and social dynamics... people's eyes usually begin to glaze over within a few minutes of me beginning to talk about the Eldar factions.
The dark city of Comorragh is literally R'yleh. How could I not get enthusiastic?
Lorgar talking to Magnus in Betrayer is by far one of my favourite parts in that book. The way he talks about the warp, about the gods, it’s so insane and yet, inspiring at the same time. Not in a way, yeah I agree, but in a, I can see how and why you’d believe that
Yeah I can see why Lorgar would be so… enthusiastic about mass murder on a scale it shatters the veil into hell itself but I mean, it’s not like he’s doing it for nothing there is in fact many demons that want to drop into the battle royale.
What’s terrifying isn’t that he believes in these gods. They call themselves gods and they have enough power that I can t blame people for agreeing with them. I see them as extra dimensional emotional parasites that have a feedback loop with certain mortal species. Powerful, yes, but gods? Not even close.
The warp is beyond time but it’s fuel and it’s prey is not. There was never a moment in the warp any of them truly began, but there were moments they awoke. The warp was calm in tbe beginning, the gods existing forever as possibilities for the future of the mortal observation of the warp. They are center stage in almost every future but they need mortals to stay that way. If all life died, they’d very quickly wither. It takes time for power to build but having your power source destroyed is guaranteed unmaking.
The 4 are whatever we all them. How the warp interacts with mortals is based on the dominant vibe of the galaxy and let’s just say the Milky Way needs to smoke at least 5 pounds of weed and chill out
@ianharrison5758 what a silly distinction. In this universe they are gods. Unless you have something else to give as an example of a real god in 40k, claiming them not to be means nothing.
I'm so glad Fabius Bile gets mentioned on here. He's such a cool yet terrifying character in the lore,especially with him being the only human to study with The Drukhari instead of being the subject of said studies. I'm glad he got some spotlight here!
The really disturbing part is that the drukari do not do anything without gaining something from it. Which means they only let Bile study with them because he had methods of sadism and torture they had not learned yet. Now that's disturbing.
I actually had a dream about conrad's ship last night based on a novel where they explain how every inch of the ship was covered in humans that were turned into living furniture. I remember seeing in my dream how a couch contained a still moving human sewed into the material. Walls of moving hands, and faces with still faces of pain and agony. Weather this was a dream that was a manifistation of the flight or fight response is beyond me. All i know is that it was deeply fascinating how my brain could take something i causally listened to on Audible, and recreate it to such an extent it was almost like i was walking on his flagship in reality.
Check out SCP-6624 Il Maestro del Rancore. It's a musical device similar to an organ except its made entirely out of 124 living humans. There's a bunch of keyboards and levers so regular people can't play it. But they build a machine to play it and depending on the song the person listening kills other or themselves and other stuff.
There's way more to it the channel The Exploring Series has a great video on it.
That sounds awesome I want a human flesh house
@@goreobsessed2308if you're good enough to avoid the authorities you can fulfill your dream. You know what you have to do. I have faith in you.
@@incredibleflameboy finally someone who wants me to live my dreams
Follow your dreams my man you can do this we are all right here ready to support you
If you want a disturbing character, I suggest The Shrike from the Hyperion Cantos, literally an ancient robot who's only purpose is to inflict endless suffering
it certainly is a disturbing entity but id argue that the shrike is more meant to be a force of nature, a plot device to shape the greater story. Since it was (presumably) created by the Reaper faction of the technocore, its arguably neutral to all parties of the ongoing conflict. Its purpose is definetly NOT to inflict endless suffering tho.
The cruciform parasite
Galatea, from the Forges of Mars omnibus is also freaky. Just a cool, collected psychopath apparent AI that collects human brains like Ash catches Pokémon.
totes agree! good books and the cover art of him is amazing!
I found the bikura unsettling
the fact that this could actually happen to people and has happened is crazy
the entire portion feels unbeilivably fucking uncanny
and of course the lightning tree with the professor on it
Would you consider doing deep dives on the tragedies of Angron or Magnus?, love your long videos my friend
Yes absolutely
@@weshammer top 10 most tragic characters in Warhammer 40k?
@@shad3revo111 Now there’s a list of difficult choices. Though for me, Magnus would be very much near the top of that list, together with Khayon’s sister.
It was so telling in the ‘Master of Mankind’ when the Emperor goes something like ‘I don’t know why they call me father, they’re not my sons, they’re tools’.
In addition to this video:
- I was thinking of those abominations cited in the Vaults of Terra series, that hunt through the undercrofts as a result of the Dark Eldar brought there.
- Also: there is this super interesting book (I can’t recall the name) where you follow a bunch of loyal marines that sabotage a ‘Chaos Marines Factory’. It’s probably one of the most horrific and explicit stories I’ve yet seen in 40k, together with the Lords of Silence/Infected soldiers on Guilleman’s planet arc
Ave Dominus Nox! It’s about time the night lords (and Konrad) were better explained just how terrifying they are.
MEH I think they're judged too harshly, at least the O.G Night Lords are good bois
Initiate Prey Sight
Their omnibus is a pretty great read
Can't deny their effectiveness thou.
@sherolled 27 its my FAVORITE.
Damn, Wes getting all philosophical over fanaticism, we need more of that
On the red wake, there are rumors that the space sharks gene-seed is hybrid night lord/raven guard & the sharks at one point out did some night lords at their preferred form of warfare. Astartes can also gain the knowledge of their enemies by eating their brains.
Are you talking about Zartak? I actually remember a mention of the connection between Night Lords and Carcharodons from the Red Tithe book
I am equal parts impressed and horrifyed by the Carcharodons' silence and stoic disposition while knowing that the blood thirst is raging within ... It seems akin to Sanguinius's condition, no?
Sharks are Alpha legion when they want to just go OG space marineing.
They are created from the Raven Guards new and improved gene seed which was given to him by the Emperor to help Corvus rebuild his legion. Alpha legion corrupted the gene seed which led to mutations very similar to the Sharks.
The Red Wake is primarch sized, his face is rarely seen but it's said he's extremely mutated which blends well with Corvus being changed by warp. Plus the entire legion acts like Corvus.
It would be interesting if Corvus used Night Lords gene seed to stabilize the corruption of the new gene seed. It's known that Night Lords have some of the purist gene seed. It's seen by many brothers who have been near the eye for 10k years with almost no mutation.
@@borisdorofeev5602 oh wow! So cool! I actually know most of these facts in isolation from recent videos I've watched, but haven't yet put them together into one such theory (I am fairly new and haven't "internalized" all the lore just yet) so your comment offered some interesting insight, thanks :D
@@borisdorofeev5602 I’m pretty sure Corax gave all of the corrupted Raven guard (the new ones) the emperors mercy the space sharks I think are the old raven guard (before Corax was found) Corax banished them to the dark edges of space and they are still going after all this time. I think their gene seed has just degraded over the last 10 thousand years, Konrad was quoted saying he actually hated Corax because of his abilities saying he haunted the night but Corax owned it so it makes sense they can beat the night lords at their own game.
I just got into Warhammer like 2 weeks ago, and I already feel like I’ve learned so much because of these videos thank you Weshammer keep up the amazing work hope all is well!
Watch some majorkill ☺️
@@WildWireWall he’s great and all, but this is my guy sorry
In regards to the fullgrim clone stuff, it's not so much that he cloned the soul somehow. It just appeared up one day. My guess is his primarch soul was just vibing in the warp, and then he isekai'd himself into... himself. The warp is weird.
Despite all the ridicule Lorgar gets among all the Primarchs, you did a great job showing just how dangerous such a character would be!
The ridicule is retarded, as Lorgar has had more of an impact on the universe than literally any other character in the setting.
You’ve made me want to check out Conrad Kurze’s Primarchs novel - sounds like Alien but with Curze as the Alien.
It's fuckin great
Im...slightly offended
I find Konrad Curze especially fascinating because he was one of only two traitor primarchs that didn't fully give himself over to chaos (the other being Alpharius). And yet Curze is still among the worst of the worst. Something something man is the true monsters.
Does Perturabo still count amongst these, considering how the Iron Warriors seem to think about Chaos corruption? :/
Conrad Kurze's death is probably a reference to Col. Kurtz from Apocalypse Now, which itself was based on Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. Conrad Kurze gets both of their names.
What makes the space sharks so terrifying is that they beat the night lords at their own style of warfare
Sharks are objectively scarier than bats.
@@etinarcadiaego7424 Tell that to Bruce Wayne
@etinarcadiaego7424 and his shark repellant spray.
I feel like Asmodai would deserve an honorable mention here. Being captured and interrogated would be one of the worst fates possible.
It's so cool seeing your growth as a creator both when it comes to subscribers and video quality!
Keep up the amazing work and thank you for the great videos!
That's the first time one ever heard Wes swear on his channel and I have to say the deliverance was impeccable
I like Lorgar. He was the only Primarch to beat chaos on his plane and replace it with the worshiping of the emperor before he was even found. And then orchestrating the heresy and winding up Horus and watching him go.
Absolutely awesome video! Yeah the one that freaked me out as a kid was the night bringer but back then we didn't know much about the necrons so that added to the horror 😅 there's so many things in 40k that are terrifying so it's honestly hard to pick but this list definitely picked out some of the most horrifying ones. Definitely sharing this video with a few friends
I feel like the Lorgar spot should've got to Erebus the high Chaplain of the Word bearers ,formally the head of a chaos cult on the Word Bearer homewold of Cholcis, he was able to keep his true faith under wraps and was able to convince Lorgar to turn down the path of damnation, he was the one who ensured the corruption of Horus, literally most if not all of Chaos's victories in the modern day and age can be traced back to this man and most disturbingly he is still alive to my knowledge
Weshammer is a fun RUclips channel that that i have never skipped his videos i love to learn new things every day. And since i am a new necron player i loved hearing illuminor szeras.
To me the most horrifying thing about 40 k is the Emporer himself because for as much as we know about him we know nothing at all
I personally think the emperor is dead and they have just been worshipping a skeleton for ages
Well we've found out that what they are worshipping has no humanity left in it cold,calculated,and uncaring
@@andarchy1386i think emps cares in his own twisted way
In e&td 2 he cast off his humanity so much so when he saw Sangy crucified his only response was cut him down but then he tell Horus I forgive you and I'll wait for you at the end so who knows how much is left in him
Great video as always I really hope you do a deep dive in the arks of omen (maybe a hour, hour and a half video to talk about as much as possible if you're up to it I know/ have an idea how difficult it is to make videos) I'm really hoping someone (hopefully you) do this a well as a deep into each primarch
The daemonculaba, and Urieal Ventris, that whole situation was completely fucked up dude, that would be a really cool story to get a break down of.
Fabius Bile: just standing there
The homunculi: *sucks teeth while looking him over*
Homunculi:"I like your cut G"
13:23 I’ve killed so many in space marine 2 do they carry the memories of your fights with them and like hold grudges? Because they seem hella aggressive when they spot me
I am all about the Drukhari, but, seeing Conrad at no.1 my reaction was "yeah, thats fair". At least the Drukhari inflict pain and suffering for necessity, to a degree, Conrad has no such reason, just the fact he likes it. That is more horrifying. Great video!
Hell yeah, this is gonna be interesting! Thanks for putting in the work and making 40k a little more engrossing.
"The hive mind had consumed far more advanced races than mankind."
That line is utterly chilling.
I rarely comment on YT but I had to say that your portrayal of Lorgar was OUTSTANDING. Very well done dude! Exactly how I imagined him in the books, with that egarness and passion for his views 🥺
My only issue with the section on Lorgar is that everything you said about him being a fanatic/ Zealot you could apply this to any of the loyal Primarchs or space marines as well. They all do what they do regardless of how vicious it is, that's how they bring worlds you won't bend the knee to compliance by killing them to the point of annihilation. The emperor killed a planet just to prove a point kinda says it's all too.
One of my favorite 40k videos I've every watched. Well done sir
One of the ads that came on during this video for Warhammer tactics features weshammer
Weshammer squared!!!
Man, I've just gotta say thank you for making these videos. 40K has always seemed like one of the most interesting stories being made, but years ago when I tried to get into it my local GW was... less than stellar. Thanks to you, I'm always able to get a nice dose of grimdark, without dealing with assholes and a broken bank.
I’m really enjoying the more relaxed videos. I can see you maturing as a creator and everything is only getting better
I've only been checking out 40K for a year or so. Read a free books, listened to some audiobooks and podcasts, etc.
Whenever a Haemonculi is in the mix, I always have a brief thought wondering if a Haemonculi is a Cenobite that's achieved apotheosis, or the other way around.
I think Lorgar is a tragic story. The Emperor should have allowed Lorgar and his followers to be full-time converters. His domain would have been that much more devoted, and he would also have a defense legion that was on home-turf in case of invasion.
The whole burning the chapel thing was part of his own downfall imo.
Well, i absolutely agree with you that Konrad Curze is no.1 disturbing character. He didn't do those horrible things because he's corrupted by the Gods, he did it by his own maddened will. That's why i absolutely like him, he's the living proof that in 40k, you don't need to be tainted by Chaos to do some scary stuff, you just need to be cruel enough.
I swear that so many issue in the warhammer 40k universe can be simply resolve with some good old mental health therapy. This is something that i have been researching is why in the Emperor Name there isn't a single psychologist or psychiatrist in the ENTIRE Imperium. Why did the Emperor NEVER even remotely tried bringing mental health professionals. After all, the Imperial creed is all about reason and you would think PSYCHOLOGY would be something that they would STRONGLY support and study.
Even better as even Sevatar calls Curze out on his bullcrap, although of course like always the madlad just keeps doubling down refusing to entertain the possibility his whole ideology was a mistake.
he was the most humane of the imperium at the time
compared to the systematic cleansing of the ultramarines, the slow death of the alpha legion, the mindless slaughter of the wolves
the night lords took a few marines and killed a very low amount of people in the most horrifying manner so that more would never even consider rebellion
kurze was the only primarch that understood humanity
and understood compassion
the only one not so blinded by arrogance that they tortured trillions with life instead of 10 with death
@@ashardalondragnipurakeand his living floor of people?
@@ashardalondragnipurake hehe, that’s not how it went. In the short story Prince of Crows Sevatar (who’s getting real tired of Curze’s antics) tells Curze that they’re not doing a very good job bringing worlds into compliance as they often rebel afterwards. Instead they torture people because they just really like it, the mad psychos lol. Curze is basically lying to himself to justify his sadism.
These long videos of yours just always make my day :D especially the story ones!
Challenge for u Wes produce a video of 10 most wholesome and entirely good characters in 40K😂
The ad for this was perfect. I fall asleep every night listening to grim dark story hour and lore segments from Wes
Konrad's arc isn't over. His soul is stored in the Corona Nox similar to an Eldar soul stone. He's one resurrection ritual away from returning.
I'd say the Emperor is the scariest character in 40k. What is he, really? Is he really right to plunge humanity into endless war and stagnation? Who made him judge, jury and executioner of possibly thousands of civilizations? There had to be a better way than his lies, genocides, and hypocrizy.
The more you think about it, the more it makes sense he is just a collection of power-mad souls who will stop at nothing in their war against Chaos. No sacrifice too great, no attrocity too vile, anything to fight their losing war... even humanity is just another tool of war to be used and spent like ammunition.
Right or wrong, the Emperor is utterly horrifying.
HERETIC!
I love how every Primarch has a little story-mode before their time in the imperium
This video got me to pick up Curze's novel and Wes, Thank you for the recommendation. Just finished it yesterday, solid listen. I'm now on Angron's novel. Curze is a total psych-out or rather lack of, character to learn about. That was also my 5th ever 40k book I've listened too. Keep up the awesome work.
Lorgar has arguably had more of an impact on the setting, both in the meta sense and in-universe, than any other character.
There was a specific short story (Abomination, narrated by Vox in the Void) that was, in my opinion, one of the darkest stories in 40k.
It dealt with an Imperium noble, his aide and the Mechanicus and ended in a horribly gruesome way. I absolutely recommend checking it out and the channel as a whole (I swear I’m neither affiliated with them nor intentionally plugging) but HOLY SHIT I was tryna sleep and that went out the window that night
I love when you make long vids man.keep up the good work respect.
i like how wes admitedly stated that the most disturbing things in the galaxy all walk in 2 legs, like inflicting pain and have pointy ears before giving us a list of the 9 other beings that come close.
I agree with you wes, raycon is indeed one of the most horrific beings in the 40k millennia.
What do you mean it's not on the list?!?!?!
No mention of Raid Shadow Legends......one of the most persistent horrors of the warp
@@hubbablahloo1843 touché my friend, touché
Goge Vandire being here in the list is understandable. His obsession for feet and zeal in editing his Wiki feet website is one to be truly horrified at.
2 Weshammer videos in the span of 2 days? Not very grimdark of you to spoil us so ❤
Working overtime after taking an awesome and much needed break 😄
@@weshammer happy you came back with energy, you and pancreasnowork are my two favourite wh youtubers, just don't overwork yourself again ❤
@@weshammertake your time Wes
the dour delivery of grindark readings is always so relaxing. Also I like that running the Imperium drove Vandire nuts lol
bet henry cavill is watching his videos xd
I wish Lorgar became more spiteful to the emperor, rather than turning planets just claiming each one couldn’t be reasoned with and commuting genocide, destroying everything, leave nothing worth of salvage every time. Give the emperor nothing but ash.
I feel like that would’ve been wonderful to see from Lorgar, since the emperor would’ve had to allow it to continue.
Could you do a deep dive of the legion of the damned, maybe Horus too?
I think the saddest thing about Curze "the Night Haunter" is that he and Corvus Corax of the Raven Guard were the two sides of the same coin.
Their forces used verry similar tactics, Stealth, infiltration, strike the enemy from an unexpected position.
The difference is that Cruze bombed his own planet into dust, Corax did everything he could to save his.
Nice, almost an hour worth of more lore, thanks Wes!
Thanks for the new video Wes! Absolutely love your content.
Ahhh good ol' Edgelord Lorgar. Can't have a dark list of dark grimdarkness without the Word Bearers and their Primarch.
Seriously though, as always, I thoroughly enjoy your videos. You really do put next-level amounts of research into each one, and I really appreciate and respect that. Keep being awesome dude!
Love your Dark and Creepy videos the most and also can you do the darkest things the Shadow keepers have locked up on record?
Another great video man. Would love to see a video your top 10 favourite characters in Warhammer 40K someday
Let's take a moment to consider how Szeras must be horrifying to the captured Eldars. Because not only their last years of life will be nothing but unimaginable agony. But also because they know that for them, there is no escapatory in death, since Slaanesh will do the same or worst ater.
I'm offended Fabius Bile wasn't the most viewed.
I think the old Sith are pretty scary and comparable to the warp gods because their power is immense and they are quite depraved. Not to mention how selfish and cold-hearted they are. Many people forget that the empire only allowed humans to serve in the galactic empire making them similar to the imperium. And Darth Bane tricked and wiped out the entire Sith army because he thought they were weak and installed the rule of two, While convinced he was the sith'ari or "chosen one".
God damn. The "Raycon" one got me shaking. Trully most disturbing one
Honorable mention: Vulcan
I consume a lot of books, movies, and videos and that was hands down the best definition of fanaticism I’ve ever heard. Truly well written.
I don’t think you realize how much I live for your uploads. I shall call off the exterminatus.
Awesome dude your videos are my favorite way of taking in 40k lore
Everyone knows that the most evil character in 40K is Diceus, the God of dice that don't like you.
I'm listening to this at work, and as he talks about the lictor, "Come a Little Bit Closer" started playing on the radio
I’d love more top tens, like powerful weapons, powerful mortals, mysterious species, still waiting on that Primarch series too😂
im glad to see ur break went well good to see you back
I had trouble going to sleep after hearing Lorgar’s monologue to Magnus. I agree, fanatics are the scariest type of villain. They are willing to give anything, ANYTHING, for their own goals, even if it means the deaths of billions. That is truly terrifying to think about.
THE MIST WAS SO GOOD! I wasnt ready for the ending.. also has amazing ties to the dark tower series including todash space and maine.
Fabius is one of my favourite characters, but he wasn't until he got his own trilogy. He's always been portrayed as this cookie cutter mad scientist, but in his own novel we learn about his philosophy, his beliefs, the reasoning behind his actions, and what his goals are.
In short, he wants the salvation of humanity, just like the Emperor wants, just with different goals, and he is such an atheist that he looked SLAANESH in the face and told it it didn't exist. He is a relentless scientist, a driven researcher, and he is the ONLY one that is right, in his own mind.
A fantastic character and a fantastic villians, and can't wait to see more of him in the future.
Blood angels to the lictor: Some bugs think they can outsmart us. Maybe. Maybe. We've yet to meet one that can outsmart Bolter.
Man your content is so ridiculously good I dont even know where to start ❤❤
Have you ever thought of doing a video of some of the more obscure engines of destruction? Everyone knows of the Imperium's Titan Legions, but few know of the time Nemesor Zahndrekh took the old Megalith for a spin to give the Imperium a good paddlin', or even the Æonic Orb.
Man I was so stoked about the carcharodons a few years ago when I nabbed physical copies of the books, such a let down. Literally half of the books are following a human female from her perspective. Same with Brutal Kunin, half is from the mechanicus pov. Maybe that's just a personal issue, but the carcharodons should have been the only pov in their books, and orks the only pov in theirs.
#2 Me: “Come on Wes, ya gotta call him Fabulous Bill just once” Wes: “…Ole Fabulous Bill had sunk to” Me: YES! 😂😵
34:26
That picture of Typhus throwing up some casual peace sign while holding a bunch of severed heads in the other hand had me rolling.
"Hey guys, it's ya boi Typhus. Back with another video on how to start a plague and praise grandpa Nergal."
Ahhh yes, eating snacks w/ Weshammer vids = heaven
Konrad Curze also had a puppet thing made of corpses that he stitched together that he talked to as his father. I’m not going to tell you what happens in the last chapter with this puppet but it’s really cool
The part of Curzes Screaming Gallery reminds me of a moment in a recent warhammer game were you stumble upon a Drukhari board game made out of a living rune prophet.
5:09 i love your speech on fanaticism. its so true.
Hyperion of the Grey Knights. An unique grey knight since he is not a psyker, but instead is a psykik mirror. He is able to mimic the psykik abilities of those around him and even draw power from those around him. He served in the first war of Armaghedon were he SHATTERED ANGRON'S BLACK BLADE!!! If he was able to do this as a recruit imagine what he could do if he was near someone like Magnus the Red
Man, that Lictor from Devastation of Baal is the primary reason the Blood Angels suffered as many casualties as they did
A Interaction for the Interaction God, a Comment for the Comment Throne, for the Almighty Algorithm
In my opinion lorgar was not a bad man from the start, je was just deeply dedicated to making sure the worlds he conquered wouldn't rebel or cause means of heresy. I think the Emperor could and should have talked it out with Lorgar like a father and son and I believe he was just a naive man.
You know Typhus is the buggiest of bois and deserves every spot on every list he's on.
He give love to all