Guys, Wes is right. After a quick session with one BetterHelps, Eye of Terror division therapists, I have truly gotten better. I no longer believe in the lies of the Corpse Emperor and have embraced the true Gods! BLESSED BE THE DARK POWERS!!
But they think that you say that it is what they want you to think, so its what they want you to think so you don't know its the truth which they want you to think its wrong....
Nah, I'm correct. By the 41st, they'd be up-jumped pirates. Maybe with some in-group elitism and an incoherent mythology justifying their pride. Black Library authors took shots at them before and I side with those. They're basically the keyboard warriors of 40K that definitely has over 1000 confirmed kills. Even in 30K this whole "humanity needs to lose so it can win" thing being swallowed uncritically by them made no sense. And even at face value, Guilliman stopped working with them explicitly because they treated conquest as some kind of sick game where they would style needlessly on the enemy at the expense of time and lives. I doubt 10,000 years of decay have made them any better.
World eaters: FOR THE SKULLS!! Thousand sons: FOR THE KNOWLEDGE!! Iron warriors & Black legion: FOR VENGEANCE!! Word bearers: FOR THE DARK GODS!! Death guard: FOR THE PLAUGES!! Night lords: FOR THE MONEY!! Emperor's children: FOR THE HOES!!
If lorgar discovered gork and mork instead of chaos they would be unstoppable Limitless faith and limitless dakka This would've been the WAAAAGH heresy instead
I think you nailed the Word Bearer's mentality. They trully believe Chaos is the primordial truth of the universe. If the truth is devastating for humanity, well that's a pity, but it is what it is. Truth is beyond mortal views on morality, their personal wishes for a better way or the survival of a species that was forcefully unified by lies.
Bro made me respect the Word Bearers’ opinions, get this man a cookie. Naw seriously, couldn’t have said it better than you or Weshammer for that matter
@@AvB.83Though it's twisted because Chaos in itself is completely unnatural and not supposed to exist in the first place. It's a corrupted and evil version of what the Warp is actually supposed to be. Lorgar once again drowning in his own ignorance and hubris.
The WBs are accurate just the truth of 40k’s setting is a diseased reflection of what it is supposed to be and originally was (along with what one day may be again) they’re just really, really late to the deeper truth. If anything, Lorgar’s boys found the *partial* truth of the setting and settled there thinking they have figured it out. The sickest part is that the partial truth is more than happy to encourage this ignorance and reward them with ‘gifts’ and ‘blessings’ when there is so much more that even the partial truths can only grasp at, even Tzeentch. In a way it is a perfect depiction of zealots that settle on a truth that sits right enough rather than *the* Truth with a capital T before going to bring pain and misery while missing the whole point. 0.5° error isn’t much at a millimeter but after a kilometer you can be so far off yet think you are in the right place
Alpha Legion has been and still is my favorite heretic legion. Them being the only ones who have been experiencing the war in real time, while the others are dreamily fading in and out of existence just makes them even more relatable.
One of the craziest things about them is the fact we can collect and play ANY Space Marine Chapter and actually say it's Alpha Legion because their marines have chameleon tech.
Crusade Era Alpha legion: we know exactly what we are doing. Heresy Era Alpha legion: Do we know what we are doing? Modern Era Alpha legion: OK WTF are we even doing?
The section with the alpha legion honestly got me more interested in them, especially with the fact that compared to every other traitor legion, they've legit lived through the whole 10k years of war, and the speech from the hopeful harrow master legit makes sense, and legit makes me wanna root for them to try and revive humanity through the sense of burning the idea of the imperium to ashes, for sure gonna pick up that book and give it a read.
I'd argue Iron Warriors' goal is to just get revenge. More than any other legion, they believed they were misused and abused. So they want to make every living being around them feel the same misery and shame as they did and feel justified doing so.
As far as I know, the Word Bearers and the Death Guard also remained quite cohesive. If anything, those two didn't have a massive orchestrated civil war. To be fair though, Iron Warriors had rivalries even during the HH days so it only makes sense for them to to split into rival warbands. Still, they're definitely more organised than most when they want to be. I also think the Black Legion is quite well organised for the most part but that's not exactly a fair comparison considering it is formed of multiple warbands from all other traitor legions and that the Sons of Horus died as a faction for it to exist.
Id argue the same for magnus and the thousand sons , however its just a revenge against the space wolves , and they wont rest until they wipe out the chapter clean and beat the living shit out of leman russ when he eventually returns .....after that happens theyd probably work on fixing the rubic marines and whatnot , if it were to ever happen
I liked the old Night Lords. "Chaos is a tool. We use it. We do not bow to it". Judging from the ADB books, it's a motto that took a blow in the legion since some centuries. To the point they have some wannabe daemon princes. When they were so intent on purging mutants amongst their ranks before.
The Iron Warriors remind me of the Chaos dwarfs. Demonic forge, bitterness towards those that wronged them, slave economy, and even a comparable way of war.
@@TheMilitantMazdakite it's like the chaos dwarves if they chained up Hashut himself and milked him for magma to fuel their forges. The relationship between the IW and chaos is majority exploitative. There was one warpsmith who started binding so many daemons to daemon engines that all four of the gods got pissed at him and swarmed him with armies of all four gods. Surprisingly he actually lasted about a month.
My favorite legion is the 20th and I really hope that either Alpharious or Omegon make their triumphant return to reunite their legion and show their new sons their true purpose. Whether that be destory or save the imperium. To shed light on the actions they took during the heresy and too give us the fans and readers of the setting a true insight into their goals and ambitions!! I AM ALPHARIOUS.
I’ve seen a theory that Alpharius and Omegon switched places, Omegon pretending to be Alpharius gets killed by Dorn, and real Alpharius raised on Terra becomes Cypher
Alpha Legion continues to be my favorite Space Marine legion period, even with their mysteries being cleared. Respecting anyone with useful knowledge and expertise, the whole council of warbands and the mythos about Alpharius and Omegon, all of those add up to a surprisingly rich faction.
Alpha Legion's problem has long been that Black Library authors don't really know what to do with them lol. Which is a shame, because I've seen so many interesting ideas floated around by fans that would make for stellar storylines and breathe some life into the faction.
It means so much to me to see you give the Thousand Sons the justice they deserve! They are one of my favorite factions in any fictional setting, and they get way too much crap from people who haven't actually read the books and know most of their 40k lore from memes and internet discussion boards. Too many people just blindly follow the Imperium party line, and I'm so happy to see someone with a more nuanced take. As far as their goals in the modern 40k setting, the difference between Magnus and his traitor brethren is pretty striking. Compared to Angron and Mortarion, Magnus might as well be leaving the wider Imperium alone. He's just trying to recreate the glories of old Prospero, and create a haven for Psykers, the most persecuted class of people in the Imperium (except maybe mutants).
T-Sons are f'n children! They're the know-it-alls of 40K that know nothing, and act like children when they realize it. Magnus did a whole lot wrong, and couldn't take one ounce of responsibility, that in no other way is a coward. What's worse is he knows it wasn't the Emperor that released the wolves on Prospero, but it was Horus. Yet, he sides with Horus, and ultimately sucks the teat of the creature that sent him and his sons on the path of destruction. Sorry, they don't deserve any justice, they need to be sent to stand in the corner and think what they've done.
@@usernamunavailiable Alright, let's take this one item at a time. "They're like the know-it-alls of 40k that know nothing," Riddle me this: which Legion was the only one humble enough to make their Astartes serve on detached detail with other Legions to learn from them? Spoiler: it's the Thousand Sons. There is only one thing that they are "know-it-alls" about, and that's Psychic powers / the Warp. And they genuinely did/do understand more about that than any other Legion. Their understanding was tragically flawed, but still leagues ahead of anyone else (probably barring the Emperor). Bear in mind, the Imperium still uses their Psychic teachings to this day. The five Psychic disciplines that all Imperial Psykers know of - Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy - were created by Magnus and the Thousand Sons. The Librarius likewise. "Magnus did a whole lot wrong, and couldn't take one ounce of responsibility," Magnus was willing to sacrifice his homeworld and his Legion to atone for his mistake, TF do you call that if not "taking responsibility"? "Yet, he sides with Horus, and ultimately sucks the teat of the creature that sent him and his sons on the path to destruction." It's like you've never read the Crimson King or Fury of Magnus. Firstly, the Emperor is not blameless in the Burning of Prospero. He sent the Wolves, the Legion that hated the Thousand Sons more than anyone. Malcador even admits that they - he and the Emperor - bear responsibility for what happened to the Thousand Sons. Secondly, Magnus sided with Horus because it was his only option. He'd already been declared an enemy of the Imperium, and that was not a war in which you could remain neutral. With Horus, you were either with him or against him, and the Thousand Sons could not fight both the Imperium and the Warmaster at the same time. Lastly, Magnus only fell to Tzeentch after the Emperor offered him redemption but at the price of his sons. Even Vulkan admitted that he wouldn't have taken that deal.
Also for those wondering whats with the death guard Like wes pointed out,the death guard are about entropy and decay,but theres a lot more nuance and depth then that. The death guard is split more or less between those loyal to mortarion and those loyal to typhus. Mortarion before chaos was at his core,a good man turned bitter by his grudges Mortarion was a genuinely good guy even if he was a cold hearted asshat,leading his people to salvation from the overlords of barbarus tyrany. Believe it or not,morty originally wasnt going to rush in swinging on necare like we saw in his origins. Before the emporor came alone,morty planned to deal with necare last as he knew damm well even if he could survive,necares mountain was stronger in toxins then even he could take long. A big thing in mortys philosophy is that he believes if somethings to good to be true,its a lie. In his point of view,he just got offered a free ticket to safety? Thats sketchy and frankly i give props for being wary. After getting his buttons pushed in the right way,that was probably i think, his 1st step to dammnation. Had the emporor save mortarion and let him kill necare? The pale king would never have chosen chaos A lot of people downplay just how much morty went through in his life pre and post chaos. Pre chaos, Morty suffered day in and day out,the only solace in his life now being the death guard,typhus and his work. And when typhus betrayed him,it wasnt a sinple "oh ill join chaos!" Or anything like that. The original reason why he sided with horus was mostly so he could sate his grudge on the inperium. Literally noone else was on his mind but him. Post chaos,morty has been twisted by nurgles gifts. Where the old morty would rage and fight aganst the dying of the light,the morty of now is tired. Tired,losing his mind,and his emotions. Yet he still carrys on,fueled by his grudges. The death guard under Morty stull remember him as the one who delivered them from necares tyrany,and even if this is barely any different,they still would gladly die for him,and morty still holds some care in his undead,fetid heart. Hell id say of the traitor primarchs,magnus and mortarion are the most rebelious since they dont actively contribute In the case of magnus, literally half of his own soul fights in the inperiums name from the shadows,while magnus himself only fucks with the wolves and maybe the ocasional world if he absolutely has to. And mortarion? Not only does he constantly go off nurgles script,he doesnt even like him The only reason he even bothers with the inperium anymore is mostly because of his grudges I believe that if Magnus and mortarion rejoined the loyalists,chaos would be well and utterly fucked.
Used to be a huge fan of the more Chaos Worshipping legions but now I'm starting to really love the Night Lords. Something about the fact that they're the only "Chaos" legion that openly spits in the faces of the Chaos Gods and the Emperor is amazing and quite hilarious.
Mental Health is important. But I'm amazed at how many RUclips influences have not only had therapy, but have used their sponsor themselves! What a coincidental and non biased ad for cash.
I like the idea that one of the Alpha Legion Primarchs just controlling things from the sidelines to strengthen the Imperium. Guy could purposely be acrewing his legion, so them thinking they lost whatever goal just makes another level of "don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing!"
It would be kind of amusing if the warp actually corresponded to the whole universe. Maybe part of the game could reflect things going on elsewhere that we have no concept of. And maybe a majority of the ships lost in the warp actually popped out in another galaxy....maybe to start new imperiums
@@blackc1479if it did there could be "Dead Space" in between. The Realm Of Chaos after the war in heaven basically grew Chaos Over pretty much all of the Milky Way but it does not extend beyond as there is a Literal Sea beyond... And they cannot leave their Island because of the tyranids Shadow walling them in
Dude I love this kind of content. Warhammer lore is a struggle to get through at times and breaking it down like this has made me interested in some factions I usually wouldn’t give a second look. Like the Word Bearers who I honestly still don’t know a lot about but maybe I will soon.
That Alpha Legion book starring Solomon was basically the writer self inserting and having a main character syndrome with meta knowledge, took the wind out of the sails of Alpha Legion, tried to remove the mystique of Alpha Legion, basically a 4th wall break to berate the reader telling them that the "I am Alpharius line is stoooiopid".
I just want a Traitor Legion to actually be smart for once, I think that's why I and many others want the Alpha Legions Primarch to have some sort of grand plan wither to be truly a traitor or not it would be interesting.
Honestly I might have missed something in my own readings of the Alpha Legion books, but from what I recall there are a few points that I feel should be brought up for context. Firstly, there are marines from the heresy still alive, just not as many. In Shroud of Night the main cast are Alpha Legionaries from the heresy that got trapped on a daemon world, and are still alive ot this day, so while most of the Alpha Legion stayed out of the Eye of Terror it does seem like some did enter it, even if it wasn't the majority. In Harrowmaster they even comment on how if this warband 'The Unsung' had turned up to the conclave, it would have caused quite a stir. Regarding Harrowmaster, it wasn't a gathering of all the Alpha Legion, just the cells in Ultima Segmentum that they could get in touch with who deigned to show up. Granted Ultima Segmentum is the largest Segmentum in the Imperium in terms of inhabited worlds so I wouldn't be surprised if this was the majority of the Alpha Legion, but technically it wasn't all of them that were called.
@@agentmaine4746any book where a legionnaire tries to leg-sweep Kharn while yelling " I am Alpharius, and I am your death!" while screaming internally is guaranteed to be a hit.
The points you bring up for the Alpha Legion, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons are really good! There's a collection of Primarch Short Stories "Blood of the Emperor" highlight how the Primarchs viewed their legions, and a lot of the exemplifies what becomes of those legions
I’m not sure what you mean when you say that their reasons for falling to Chaos aren’t all that great. To me, they make perfect sense and I can understand 110% why someone would fall to chaos in the warhammer universe. Hell, I can see how someone could lose their mind in THIS world and hurt others in all sorts of different ways (going from the legal to illegal.)
@@SalviHippo Okay, I'm gonna list their characters' reasons for falling, all in Legion Order. And then I'll get into why I think there's a problem with those. Let's go: 3rd Legion: - Fulgrim got possessed by a Demon, then he managed to regain control of his body, and he fully went Slaaneshi-drugs because... because. - Eidolon and Lucius were just little shits. - Fabius didn't really go Chaos. 4th Legion: - Perty didn't turn to Chaos so much as rebel against the Big E. But his ascension to Daemon Prince was a massive waste imo. He could've made for a good counterpart to Guilliman. :/ 8th Legion: Not Chaos so much as renegade. 12th Legion: Angron was a douchebag. He had his reasons though. The World Eaters were dragged into Khorne by force. 14th Legion: Oh boy, here we go! - Mortarion got dragged into Nurgle against his will and turned into a Daemon Prince. But then he accepted his new status and transformed his world into a replica of Barbarus, becoming everything he claimed to hate... while still preaching hatred for the witch. Like a hypocrit. Like father, like son I guess. :/ - Typhus is a dickhead and went full Chaos. 15h Legion: - Magnus did everything wrong and got played. - Ahriman also got played and thinks he's free, but he's not. 16th Legion: - Horus fell because he saw a vision of the future, that he chose to believe was the only future because reasons? I get it, and it works on paper. But I really struggle to think as to what exactly went through his head to convince him to go full genocide. - Abaddon and most of the Sons of Horus went with it because Daddy Horus knows best. Then Abby grew desillusioned and went on to make the exact same failures than Horus as Warmaster when it comes to Chaos. But with more hypocrisy, since he claims to be his own master. - Iskandar Khayon went like: "Fuck Magnus and my Legion, I'm joining with a true brothrhood." 17th Legion: - Erebus was a Chaos worshipper from the beginning. Same with Kor Phaeron. - Lorgar got raised by Kor Phaeron, then got his city razed by the Big E., and then got into a pilgrimage. - Argel Tal followed because he truly believed in Chaos being a boon for humanity. He was the best Chaos character imo, but he got shanked and died. XXth Legion: Not Chaos. Maybe. Perhaps. So, as to my actual problem with these. Sure if you get the full picture, most of these stories are somewhat deep. But if you only take the main, official, most-read sources, the fall of certain Primarchs like Perturabo or Fulgrim does look quite shallow. And some flipflop between deep nuanced characters and cartoonish villains between books. You have to truly dig into side-materials to get a better idea of it. (This is a writing quirk of 40k , but also a source of problems in its narrative for many including me.) And even then, it feels like the authors made certain Primarchs fall like that because the plot demanded it - Fulgrim and Mortarion especially. That being said, this isn't my main problem with Chaos in 40k. (That would be how Chaos is portrayed most of the time in 40k.) But it's one that does make the Heresy a tad less good for me. :/
@Archon3960 Horus being freed of corruption by Leman and still thinking after all that he destroyed that he somehow was right was so weird. How was Horus,the one who was so close and cozy with the Emperor see a vision and witness how absolutely evil they are and think "The demons are gone but they're still better than dad because.....well because." Horus was literally the only one with the fewest reasons to hate the Emperor. He was the most spoiled and had the most clout. Give his soul to Chaos for what? He's already immortal,has endless power over every Primarch and their legion,his brothers love him,yet he gets shanked and shown a vision and suddenly not even Magnus can tell him that this insane demonic dream he's having is a lie because.....because. 🎉
Wes, I'd be super interested in a video about times the Eldar (and other factions) came to the aid of the Imperium. There's a lot of fragmented lore around, but there's really nothing dedicated to 'those times the Imperium recieved aid from non-humans, and why'. Could that be a topic?
The butchers surgeons don't use sorcery... if they did they'd die pretty quickly as they lost their heads for using forbidden sorcery! I do love this video, gives an excellent framing for each of the legions!
I'll admit it's not super clear. It says it's derived from methods used during the horus heresy, and when you go to the horus heresy black books to read about it, it says that sorcery was used. But during the great crusade the world eaters definitely had psychers. It would take agron becoming a demon before all of their psychers were wiped out. So when you read the new world eaters codex, it doesn't clarify if they are the ones using the sorcery or it's their dark mechanicum allies. My thought would be the latter.
Buuuuut despite korn legions denail of sorcery at the end of the day they are still part of chaos and hence still are made of the essencse of the warp wish by its nature its still all “magical”. After all they still use abnormal anomolys effect in combat wether it be abnormal pysical possible resistance boost, strength boost, “magic” canons n swords n mounts weaponry, just plain fire breathing, being resistence to some magic stuff or just straight one use portals to get to the heart of battle. They still are part of the warp and hence still use its “magic” to some extent just that they use it only in a need to need basic requirements and the least amount has possible in comparasion to other chaos forces. They still use sorcery just they do it has least has possible and on a need to need neccecity bases.
In the old Liber Chaotica and Slaves to Darkness it said how to do Khorne summonings and rites it's less sorcery and more like them channelling violence. For summonings they'll find battle sites, and then they'll just provoke acts of violence in that area to keep thinning the veil until it rips. The Butcher surgeons likely use gene manipulation combined with daemonic ick to do anything to speed the process up. Khrone himself see's sorcery and psykers as a debasement of martial honour and prowess, it's one of the reasons Tzeentch often ranks highly on his hit list behind Slaanesh and it was the reason for the brass collars being considered one of the highest blessings.. But like everything the Chaos gods are fickle and infinite! @@weshammer
8:32 The irony that in a way the Word Bearers are the most lawful of legions, they simply follow not the Emperor's law, but what they perceive to be a natural law. They bind themselves to and force upon others an undefiable hierarchy, if gods exist they are above mortals and so must be worshiped. Is that more an artifice of law than one who says "yes something that could be called a 'god' exists, but they are evil and undeserving of worship." The Emperor, who sees those beings and willfully denies them is in many ways more chaotic (small c) than the Word Bearers themselves.
Abaddon's aware of how difficult it is to unite them. It's why he'll put the ones he most distrusts in the vanguard so they're more likely to get killed. The guy's probably a master politician by this stage managing his own legion, relations with the legions which still have their Primarchs and with other warbands.
This was incredibly poignant and absolutely brilliant! You really highlighted the layers and depth to chaos and the different philosophies each legion stands by! They are by far one of the most interesting factions, like them or not, in not just 40k, but in fantasy/scifi fiction as a whole. I've never seen them being shown the respect and objective fascination that they deserve more than your channel achieves. You are by far, not only one of the best 40k youtubers, but one of the most passionate, unbiased, and effective lore channels on the platform. Well done! You truly embodied why I love chaos so much!
If only Big E could have been a bit more kind to his sons most probably would not have turned although the one who becomes warmaster was destined to fall.
I would say the word bearers are the most zealous of all of them and the world eaters were just trying to match the wavelength of the unstable sire, but the Alpha legion, is that even a thing? And I love the background melody and how you describe things, thank you weshammer for making us love WH40K
Another thing people miss regarding the thousand sons,the reason there fucked over isnt because there corrupted. Post rubric of arhiman,the survivors of the thousand sons were made immune to chaos,bar the collection of shards making up chaos magnus. The reason why there stuck with chaos is twofold The biggest reason being that despite the immunitys to corruption,tzeench has made a claim on Magnus' and by extension every thousand sons soul despite the thousand sons genes and magnus himself were made by the emporor. Not only that,the other part of this reason is that tzeench has his direct focus on them,and had it since 10 milenia. If anything no matter what,the thousand sons were fucked if the emporor was constantly near them or at least fucked up tzeench. The 2nd reason being the fact they literally have nowhere else to go. During the heresy when leman went feral on the thousand sons,they literally sought asylum with horus and the traitors because of the burning of prospero,to which horus allowed,if only because chaos horus needed any help he could get. And you know what the thousand sons did? One thousand son joined in saving ULTRAMAR. Another thousand sons,arvida BECAME A GREY KNIGHT. And to top that off, Magnus' in his madness still put himself together enough to send the photep to play mvp to help sharrowkyn and friends. Even on the traitor side,the majority of thousand sons did absolute fuck all to contribute,with magnus almost becoming a full loyalist,which had that happen, would have rapidly fucked horus up in the worst way possible. And on top of that pre daemon shard of magnus was stable enough to help a not fully acended mortarion,making his newfound pain bearable enough to fight. And he saved loyalist civilians. What traitor would do ANY OF THIS. For the inperium even? Hell in the modern time,the 40k thousand sons apart from getting payback on the wolves,the ones who razed prospero being long dead be dammed,a lot of the legion bar arhimans warband and other small cabals literally helped magnus retake prospero,and create a small empire,which arguably is more nicer and able to train psykers then the inperiums rampant hypocrisy about them. Let this sink in. Despite everything theyve done,most of the thousand sons,and a great many 30k night lords were possibly one of the least truely evil of the traitors.
@@mikekillian6154 and not only that,magnus could care less about chaos,same as abbadon Hell abbadon despite the memes actually is fairly competent,the only reason hes struggling so hard is his old lore sucks compared to new,and gw eliminating a lot of nuance that goes into each chaos marine
While I not always agree with Wes's videos and lore explanations, this one is bang on. As a huge chaos fan I am super happy about the depiction of the Word Bearers and Night lords specifically. Love your content man
You really sold me on the alpha Legion. Their new lore seems cooler than before. The Idea of a legion that operates as disjointed insurgency cells appeals to me. Also they are correct in the assessment that if the Imperium was destroyed, humanity might be better off for it.
Correction: the Emperor didn't burn Monarchia to the ground because Lorgar & his Word Bearers didn't ''meet their quota of compliance". He did it, because Logar & the Word Bearers worshipped him as a god & were actively converting the populations of the planets they conquered into this religion. Remember, the Emperor had outlawed every type of organized religion in his Imperium, because he feared that religious believes are fueling the Chaos Gods. He actually gave Lorgar a couple of warnings, that if he doesn't stop the whole worshipping/ proselytizing -thing, there would be severe consequences. Lorgar didn't pay any attention to this, so Big E decided to do something drastic, have Monarchia wiped out and the Word Bearers humiliated. Ironically, the whole thing backfired spectacularly and pushed Lorgar & the Word Bearers into the arms of Chaos.
Although it's true, the emperor pretty explicitly did not want to be worshiped he allowed lorgar and the word bearers to do it and did not outright condem it until it began to interfere with their effectiveness. This is one of the main things that pushed lorgar over the edge and why he felt so betrayed by him. It wasn't like the emperor was constantly telling him not to do it over and over and then suddenly snapped. If it kept them in line and kept them doing exactly what he wanted, he stayed quiet on it. I'm pretty sure this was covered in first heretic
Goodness me! “Rage is the highest form of sentience”. Gosh! But they do make their evil acts sounds incredible sensible. Expansion then decay, following true gods etc. I find this take on Chaos intriguing and I’d like to sign up for their newsletter. And you know, I’ve always rather liked hooping and hollering. Yes the more I think about it the more I really think this might be just the ticket for me. “Hail Slanesh!” Indeed, eh? Sounds like a fine old jape!
Really?? You of all people sponsoring that company saddens me. A lot has come to light about them not actually being as good as they portray themselves :/ That being said, this video is awesomely thorough and your effort definitely shows
I absolutely love how this open with the question of “what do they want?” Thank you for the deep dig, Wes!!! Appreciate the work you put into this!! Perspectives!! Cheers!!
Some info on BetterHelp' The FTC says the company doubled down on deception by falsely denying it had shared consumers' personal information - including their health information - with third parties. The eight-count complaint details how the FTC says BetterHelp's allegedly deceptive and unfair practices harmed consumers
Also for those wondering about the night lords Pre and post heresy they still try to stay anti chaos Sure you might see the warband blasting magic,but most night lords keep chaos at arms length because they saw first hand how self destructive it is most of the time Hell they even shun night lords sworn to chaos. A big reason why the night lords are so scattered is because of nostramo tainting the night lords ranks. It also never helped konrad was on a downward spiral of madness Early in the crusade,konrad had his mental snaps on ocasion,but he was willing to serve in the crusade and all that and did have a basic understanding of what to do. After konrad put dorn on his ass, this would spark the downward spiral to insanity Something people forgot because at the time when konrad told fulgrim,who relayed it to dorn about his visions,He was actually trying to warn the inperium of the dark path ahead,and dorn reacted in the way youd expect. Had dorn heed curzes visions or better yet the emporor hears them,so much could change,from many primarchs not being tainted,to chaos not even getting close to the primarchs if curze or sanguinus saw and warned the others. As the heresy went on and on,konrad was literally fighting himself to maintain some kind of control of himself,with sevatar actively trying to do all he could while others tried the opposite Then came his vindication. In his now beyond and fully twisted mind,he thought he would die to prove his point that his visions were fixed despite konrad during the early stages of the crusade not believing this as strongly. Konrad would eventually die as he lived on nostramo,scared and twisted. After this,the night lords lost sevatar Without him,the atramentar shattered and so the legion as well. Its why decimus is actually an incredible leader since he has the power and will to unite the legion should he sucsseed
12:29 My only quible here is that Harrowmaster gives us insight into a group of Alpha Legion warbands in a part of the Ultima Segmentum. Other Alpha Legion warbands in other parts of the Galaxy could have better record keeping, different motivations and drives, warbands near the Eye of Terror may have escaped there, etc.
ove them or hate them, you must however admit that the alpha Legion has some Savage drip! Their armor with its designs and the gilding and the dragon scales & the crests? omigod and just that sea-green with the silver? So badass!
Thank you for this insightful video s. Love your mix of knowledge, personal vision and your obvious love for the 40k setting! Every video you make is just quality. I am a fantasy guy myself. But due to listening to your channel, getting to know more and more about 40k and its universe. I finally started my first 40k army; The World Eaters!!! My new, and first 40k, project ❤❤❤
Passages from "Angel Exterminatus" and "Slaves To Darkness" reference that Perturabo's soul is being siphoned in a way that resembles what happens to the Drukhari. Some theorize that Perturabo has been missing from the setting, because he didn't ACTUALLY go daemon. In his refusal to bend to Chaos, he's been spending his time trying to stop, or circumvent that siphoning. Essentially turning himself into a Dreadnought. Others say that he just kind of decided, "fukkit" and went daemon because it was the only way. Backed into a corner, similarly to Magnus and Mortarion. But the quote about how Perturabo and The Iron Warriors want to force order upon Chaos really reminded me of a different theory. There's that one theory that talks about how the Emperor was ACTUALLY actively seeking Godhood. He wanted to become a fifth Chaos God, and basically be a Chaos God of "Order" This is such a tin-foil hat, cooked conspiracy, that I think could be somewhat correct for no other reason than the fact that it is so insanely, "wtf" But here it is; I would open up the theory by referencing to the fight between Guilliman, and Mortarion. Where the Emperor basically possessed Guilliman's body to completely dunk on Mortation. The biggest thing that pressed Perturabo to go traitor, was his jealousy and anger towards Dorn. By the time we get to the Siege of Terra, Perturabo is kind of done with everybody's bullshit. But just stayed traitor because he was just kind of way too invested at this point. He was over all of the bullshit, so he busted up the palace and basically said, "Alright, cool, I've fulfilled my oath, I upheld my end of the bargain, I don't really have anything else for y'all, GLHF." withdrawing all of his forces and ragequitting. Perturabo regretted going traitor after he saw how far his brothers plunged into madness. But it isn't like he could ever come back to the Imperium. I would also like to note the Fulgrim clone. The Fulgrim clone was perfect. Since his original body got yoinked by the daemon. And then there was the Horus clone. The Horus clone was a little piece of shit. But the Fulgrim clone was LITERALLY him. The Primarchs are not their bodies. The Primarchs are their souls. Perturabo's soul is being siphoned / eaten away. And he regrets going traitor. Perturabo and the Emperor have such a hardcore anti-god/anti-warp mindset. What if Perturabo comes back as like, an "avatar of order", the Emperor is filling the gap of Perturabo's soul. Emperor is channeling himself through Perturabo in a way. Or similarly to the Sanguinor, what if Perturabo comes back as like, "an imperial daemon"? Writing this has also made me consider another conspiracy that is a MILLION times more cooked. Vashtorr is such an interesting Chaos entity. This dude doesn't play around. He doesn't do deceptive-daemon shit. He just has a good time being the arms dealer of Chaos. Just chilling at The Forge Of Souls making stuff, and the Chaos Gods don't really mess with him, cause I mean, he literally makes their shit, so they can't really get rid of him. The warp is completely unstable.The Chaos Gods have to begrudgingly accept his existence because of how influential he is. This lad literally binds lesser daemons to his will via contract. And Perturabo is known for his expert craftsmanship, and innovation. Vashtorr owes no allegiance to anything but himself. Even the high and mighty all-powerful pantheon of Chaos is essentially stuck kneeling to The Arkifane due to his purpose. What if Perturabo found a way to master the Warp...? What if he truly found a way to dominate it? What if Vashtorr IS Perturabo? Vashtorr is just a version of Perturabo from the future, finding Vashtorr in the current setting due to a combination of time shenanigans, and warp spaghetti. Or Vashtorr is a version of Perturabo from an alternative universe/timeline/reality. Or at the very least, due to the soul drainage it might not be Perturabo COMPLETELY, but what if there are just pieces / remnants of Perturabo within Vashtorr? Kind of like how Magnus was shattered into the various shards. Those shards are incredibly powerful, with Malcedor literally creating The Gray Knights using them. So what if it's something somewhat similar?
OH SHIT THE LEGEND LIKED MY COMMENT, MAYBE MY THEORY WILL BE HEARD I will continue the theory: I don't remember where it was mentioned, but it was said that The Fall Of Cadia was an omen of Perturabo's return. So I like to believe that Perturabo and the Iron Warriors will return along with Rogal Dorn. The Nachmund Gauntlet is a space right outside of The Eye Of Terror, and is generally one of the only passages to/from Nihilus. The Iron Warriors crawl out of the eye of terror and set up shop to keep the Imperium split in two. With Perturabo's return, it only seems right that Dorn also returns too. Finding out where he's been, or what he's been up to, and having another showdown between the two. It would be a grueling siege akin to the Siege Of Terra, where the loyalist forces would be facing increasing resistance from Chaos and daemons alike. Just when the campaign seems to be a failure, the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and the Lion end up coming in, pushing Perturabo and The Iron Warriors back into the eye, where Dorn and his sons would be essentially tasked with holding The Nachmund Gauntlet. Not only because of their defensive expertise, but also because of their extremely stable geneseed, and inscrutable will. Alternatively it may be the opposite; Dorn and the Fists pop up to secure The Nachmund Gauntlet, and upon hearing of his return, it kicks Perturabo into gear to stop being AFK. Gathering his forces, Perturabo lays siege to The Nachmund Gauntlet to try and open it back up. - Maybe we'd even get to see some new daemon-engine monstrosities for tabletop to go along with this.
@@Tommybotham Not really, considering Malal. The Chaos God that essentially wanted to kill Chaos. But even if you don't consider that to be canon, it's still not entirely out of reason. Since the Chaos Gods are reflections and manifestations of emotion, maybe "order" isn't the right word, but pretty much all creatures have a need to organize. Whether it be a flock of birds, a pack of dogs, a tribe of primitives, or a galaxy spanning empire. It's practically ingrained nature to organize, control, and understand.
@@dasvuffenspousaller2872 Malal is explained well: he's parasitic in nature and is chaos unrestrained. This whole Emperor being a Chaos God of order is just silly. The IoM is a death cult and has been ever since the GC. If the Emperor gains apotheosis, he would become a God of Death. Death is the end of all things. No blood flowing (Khorne), no decay (Nurgle), no sensation (Slaanesh) and no threads to interfere with (Tzeentch). That is why he is anathema to the Chaos God's. He represents their complete end.
Love The way the Enperoers children look. They may do some evil stuff but in the 40k universe who doesn't lol. I hope fulgrim can return soon so I can begin collecting them for 40k
I've always been a bit confused about the Iron Warriors. Back in 3rd ed, they hated daemons and couldn't field them with minor exceptions. Now they're built all around machines infused with daemons. I don't know what suits them best, or whether to lean into it being yet another schism.
Writing this comment to remind people that Abbadon has one of the original Grey knights chained up on his ship with two nulls sewn to his chest and back. All so Abbadon could implant the Grey knights gene seed into his body to prevent him from falling to chaos.
For those of you who dont understand Abaddons mentality towards the summoning of deamons here... I ask you one question. Is a hammer not a hammer if it is called something else by someone else? Unlike Horus, Abaddon allows the warbands to use their individual skills to the best of their ability as well as planning to do so. Thats honestly why he's a better warmaster than horus.
The Alpha Legion being so secretive and confusing that it ends up biting them in the ass to the point where even _they_ don’t know what and who they are anymore- when we think they did all along is honestly the most Alpha Legion thing ever. Hilarious.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9mbDXvDNqTU/mqdefault.jpg)
Get 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp: betterhelp.com/weshammer
Can’t believe this scam is still around
Guys, Wes is right. After a quick session with one BetterHelps, Eye of Terror division therapists, I have truly gotten better. I no longer believe in the lies of the Corpse Emperor and have embraced the true Gods! BLESSED BE THE DARK POWERS!!
Loved your video as always your peppy charm speaks to the adhd nerd inside me. Also, haha your segway into todays sponsor was EPIC!
Take care brother
Bro, BETTERHELP?!
I would rather be eviscerated by a bloodthirster than use betterhell.
I wonder, did betterhelp ever improve or change after the controversy wave that spooked about a year or two ago?
"whatever you think the alpha leigion is, you are probably wrong" thats exactly what they want you to think.
The plan is working.
@@ThirdCydonian Good the have still no clue Brother !
But they think that you say that it is what they want you to think, so its what they want you to think so you don't know its the truth which they want you to think its wrong....
@@Mordroth-the-daemonwhisperer Yes.
This is a lie.
Nah, I'm correct. By the 41st, they'd be up-jumped pirates. Maybe with some in-group elitism and an incoherent mythology justifying their pride. Black Library authors took shots at them before and I side with those. They're basically the keyboard warriors of 40K that definitely has over 1000 confirmed kills. Even in 30K this whole "humanity needs to lose so it can win" thing being swallowed uncritically by them made no sense. And even at face value, Guilliman stopped working with them explicitly because they treated conquest as some kind of sick game where they would style needlessly on the enemy at the expense of time and lives. I doubt 10,000 years of decay have made them any better.
World eaters: FOR THE SKULLS!!
Thousand sons: FOR THE KNOWLEDGE!!
Iron warriors & Black legion: FOR VENGEANCE!!
Word bearers: FOR THE DARK GODS!!
Death guard: FOR THE PLAUGES!!
Night lords: FOR THE MONEY!!
Emperor's children: FOR THE HOES!!
Alpha Legion: FOR WHAT, EXACTLY?
@@PapaBradford damn thats a good one
Sons of Malice: FOR THE RENEGADE GOD!!
Black legion: FOR THE WARMASTER!
Red Corsairs : FOR FUN AND PLUNDER ALSO RETRIBUTION Arrrrrrrggg
I always wonder what the Galaxy would look like if on Lorgar’s Pilgrimage he found Gork and Mork, Cegorach, or a Ctan shard.
"All i ever wanted was more dakka"
A ctan shard would be interesting, ngl. Especially the one of Grim Reaper.
Imagine cegorach converting lorgar to the eldar pantheon right. And then the word bearers start painting their armor like the harlequins
If lorgar discovered gork and mork instead of chaos they would be unstoppable
Limitless faith and limitless dakka
This would've been the WAAAAGH heresy instead
That would justify the legion's color swap after the heresy. Cauz red ones go fasta!
I think you nailed the Word Bearer's mentality. They trully believe Chaos is the primordial truth of the universe. If the truth is devastating for humanity, well that's a pity, but it is what it is. Truth is beyond mortal views on morality, their personal wishes for a better way or the survival of a species that was forcefully unified by lies.
The word bearers are chaos Jehovas witnesses
Bro made me respect the Word Bearers’ opinions, get this man a cookie. Naw seriously, couldn’t have said it better than you or Weshammer for that matter
It also makes it sound a lot like believing in a "natural order of things", which sounds very un-chaotic.
@@AvB.83Though it's twisted because Chaos in itself is completely unnatural and not supposed to exist in the first place. It's a corrupted and evil version of what the Warp is actually supposed to be. Lorgar once again drowning in his own ignorance and hubris.
The WBs are accurate just the truth of 40k’s setting is a diseased reflection of what it is supposed to be and originally was (along with what one day may be again) they’re just really, really late to the deeper truth. If anything, Lorgar’s boys found the *partial* truth of the setting and settled there thinking they have figured it out. The sickest part is that the partial truth is more than happy to encourage this ignorance and reward them with ‘gifts’ and ‘blessings’ when there is so much more that even the partial truths can only grasp at, even Tzeentch.
In a way it is a perfect depiction of zealots that settle on a truth that sits right enough rather than *the* Truth with a capital T before going to bring pain and misery while missing the whole point. 0.5° error isn’t much at a millimeter but after a kilometer you can be so far off yet think you are in the right place
Alpha Legion: “The Imperium can’t predict/counter our plans if even WE don’t know them! >:3 “
*Jeremy Clarkson voice* Sometimes my Genius is....it's almost frightening
shit, thats the entire U.S. military strategy
"To confuse your enemy, first confuse yourself" Sun Tzu
@@voidstorm6225 A certain Swedish band with a muscular lead singer with a mohawk and a steel-plated shirt needs to make a song about that.
@@Didymus20X6 it wouldn't suprise me at all if Joakim already has something planned.
Alpha Legion has been and still is my favorite heretic legion. Them being the only ones who have been experiencing the war in real time, while the others are dreamily fading in and out of existence just makes them even more relatable.
One of the craziest things about them is the fact we can collect and play ANY Space Marine Chapter and actually say it's Alpha Legion because their marines have chameleon tech.
Shoot. Alpha legion doesn't even sound like a chaos chapter. It just sounds like a rogue chapter that wants to see the empire fall.
They have the lowest chaos taint out of all chaos chapters
@@baconlovingvampire4523what chaos lord do they follow
@@hogandaboganyounglocos5512 Don’t believe they follow anyone really so I guess just chaos undivided
Reminder that better help is a scam
They're just a new Chaos Legion
Why are they a scam I see ads for them all over
Yeah you're probably right but what proof do you have of that?
Most are not even therapists. You are just paying to chat
I'm not a therapist but I'm pretty good at helping people. Free of charge.
Crusade Era Alpha legion: we know exactly what we are doing.
Heresy Era Alpha legion: Do we know what we are doing?
Modern Era Alpha legion: OK WTF are we even doing?
They know exactly what they're doing: fighting the Imperium. They just don't know why.
Still waiting on what would happen if each faction gets all 40,000 warhammers. Thanks, love the channel :)
They'll have a hammer-war in Warhammer
What if the real warhammer was the friends we made along the way.
@@foxhound5699bruhhh.. almost no one would have a weapon for very long..
You get to sit on the golden throne
@@foxhound5699nothing is more powerful then friendship
The new Alpha Legion book is obviously Alpha Legion propaganda.
Sounds like something the alpha legion would say to throw us off the scent.
I love the alpha legions cannon motive is "There is a grand in the works, absolutely no one knows what it is."
The section with the alpha legion honestly got me more interested in them, especially with the fact that compared to every other traitor legion, they've legit lived through the whole 10k years of war, and the speech from the hopeful harrow master legit makes sense, and legit makes me wanna root for them to try and revive humanity through the sense of burning the idea of the imperium to ashes, for sure gonna pick up that book and give it a read.
I'd argue Iron Warriors' goal is to just get revenge. More than any other legion, they believed they were misused and abused. So they want to make every living being around them feel the same misery and shame as they did and feel justified doing so.
Despite doing most of the legwork in the Horus Heresy they're easily the most intact out of the traitors in terms of numbers and cohesion
As far as I know, the Word Bearers and the Death Guard also remained quite cohesive. If anything, those two didn't have a massive orchestrated civil war. To be fair though, Iron Warriors had rivalries even during the HH days so it only makes sense for them to to split into rival warbands. Still, they're definitely more organised than most when they want to be. I also think the Black Legion is quite well organised for the most part but that's not exactly a fair comparison considering it is formed of multiple warbands from all other traitor legions and that the Sons of Horus died as a faction for it to exist.
Id argue the same for magnus and the thousand sons , however its just a revenge against the space wolves , and they wont rest until they wipe out the chapter clean and beat the living shit out of leman russ when he eventually returns .....after that happens theyd probably work on fixing the rubic marines and whatnot , if it were to ever happen
I liked the old Night Lords. "Chaos is a tool. We use it. We do not bow to it". Judging from the ADB books, it's a motto that took a blow in the legion since some centuries. To the point they have some wannabe daemon princes. When they were so intent on purging mutants amongst their ranks before.
Some? I think Alpha Legion has more named daemon princes than almost all of the other traitor legions.
@@headlibrarian1996you mean night lords?
The Iron Warriors remind me of the Chaos dwarfs. Demonic forge, bitterness towards those that wronged them, slave economy, and even a comparable way of war.
Now that you point it out, i definetly see it. Despite the different aesthetics, they're remarkably similar in essence and behaviour.
@@geeljire9247 Yeah. HASHUT HASHUT HASHUT!!!!!!
@@TheMilitantMazdakite it's like the chaos dwarves if they chained up Hashut himself and milked him for magma to fuel their forges. The relationship between the IW and chaos is majority exploitative. There was one warpsmith who started binding so many daemons to daemon engines that all four of the gods got pissed at him and swarmed him with armies of all four gods.
Surprisingly he actually lasted about a month.
My favorite legion is the 20th and I really hope that either Alpharious or Omegon make their triumphant return to reunite their legion and show their new sons their true purpose. Whether that be destory or save the imperium. To shed light on the actions they took during the heresy and too give us the fans and readers of the setting a true insight into their goals and ambitions!!
I AM ALPHARIOUS.
HYDRA DOMINATUS
Yeah. It would be fair to give use some revelations about some things. So many "mistery boxes" are starting to be annoying.
I’ve seen a theory that Alpharius and Omegon switched places, Omegon pretending to be Alpharius gets killed by Dorn, and real Alpharius raised on Terra becomes Cypher
Omegon is dead. Alpharius lives.
...of course, the opposite is also true. And neither.
I am Alpharious.
Alpha Legion continues to be my favorite Space Marine legion period, even with their mysteries being cleared. Respecting anyone with useful knowledge and expertise, the whole council of warbands and the mythos about Alpharius and Omegon, all of those add up to a surprisingly rich faction.
Alpha Legion's problem has long been that Black Library authors don't really know what to do with them lol. Which is a shame, because I've seen so many interesting ideas floated around by fans that would make for stellar storylines and breathe some life into the faction.
It means so much to me to see you give the Thousand Sons the justice they deserve! They are one of my favorite factions in any fictional setting, and they get way too much crap from people who haven't actually read the books and know most of their 40k lore from memes and internet discussion boards. Too many people just blindly follow the Imperium party line, and I'm so happy to see someone with a more nuanced take.
As far as their goals in the modern 40k setting, the difference between Magnus and his traitor brethren is pretty striking. Compared to Angron and Mortarion, Magnus might as well be leaving the wider Imperium alone. He's just trying to recreate the glories of old Prospero, and create a haven for Psykers, the most persecuted class of people in the Imperium (except maybe mutants).
T-Sons are f'n children! They're the know-it-alls of 40K that know nothing, and act like children when they realize it. Magnus did a whole lot wrong, and couldn't take one ounce of responsibility, that in no other way is a coward. What's worse is he knows it wasn't the Emperor that released the wolves on Prospero, but it was Horus. Yet, he sides with Horus, and ultimately sucks the teat of the creature that sent him and his sons on the path of destruction. Sorry, they don't deserve any justice, they need to be sent to stand in the corner and think what they've done.
@@usernamunavailiablei can say similar words about emperor
@@usernamunavailiable Alright, let's take this one item at a time.
"They're like the know-it-alls of 40k that know nothing,"
Riddle me this: which Legion was the only one humble enough to make their Astartes serve on detached detail with other Legions to learn from them? Spoiler: it's the Thousand Sons. There is only one thing that they are "know-it-alls" about, and that's Psychic powers / the Warp.
And they genuinely did/do understand more about that than any other Legion. Their understanding was tragically flawed, but still leagues ahead of anyone else (probably barring the Emperor). Bear in mind, the Imperium still uses their Psychic teachings to this day. The five Psychic disciplines that all Imperial Psykers know of - Biomancy, Divination, Pyromancy, Telekinesis, and Telepathy - were created by Magnus and the Thousand Sons. The Librarius likewise.
"Magnus did a whole lot wrong, and couldn't take one ounce of responsibility,"
Magnus was willing to sacrifice his homeworld and his Legion to atone for his mistake, TF do you call that if not "taking responsibility"?
"Yet, he sides with Horus, and ultimately sucks the teat of the creature that sent him and his sons on the path to destruction."
It's like you've never read the Crimson King or Fury of Magnus.
Firstly, the Emperor is not blameless in the Burning of Prospero. He sent the Wolves, the Legion that hated the Thousand Sons more than anyone. Malcador even admits that they - he and the Emperor - bear responsibility for what happened to the Thousand Sons.
Secondly, Magnus sided with Horus because it was his only option. He'd already been declared an enemy of the Imperium, and that was not a war in which you could remain neutral. With Horus, you were either with him or against him, and the Thousand Sons could not fight both the Imperium and the Warmaster at the same time.
Lastly, Magnus only fell to Tzeentch after the Emperor offered him redemption but at the price of his sons. Even Vulkan admitted that he wouldn't have taken that deal.
@@usernamunavailiablePoint and laugh at the cultural tourist that doesn't actually know the world they're piping in on
@@usernamunavailiable
Imperium fan: detected
Opinion: Irrelevant
Word bearers: Spread peace and love of the Big M.
The Big M: Damn sons thats not the way of grimdark.
Gotta love this villian arc
Big M????
Necron supremacy
your supports does not affect anything human.
Na u can use our body zarech
'da boyz gunna smash 'da stupid shiny robotz, simple az.
Tyranids ftw
Yo where my necrophiles at
Absolutely loved your promotion for Darktide being put on the Gamepass and especially all you’ve done to get WH40k into the mainstream.
WH40k always was pretty mainstream lol
@@somekindofdude1130definitely not lol
Most people have no clue wtf 40k is@@somekindofdude1130
Also for those wondering whats with the death guard
Like wes pointed out,the death guard are about entropy and decay,but theres a lot more nuance and depth then that.
The death guard is split more or less between those loyal to mortarion and those loyal to typhus.
Mortarion before chaos was at his core,a good man turned bitter by his grudges
Mortarion was a genuinely good guy even if he was a cold hearted asshat,leading his people to salvation from the overlords of barbarus tyrany.
Believe it or not,morty originally wasnt going to rush in swinging on necare like we saw in his origins.
Before the emporor came alone,morty planned to deal with necare last as he knew damm well even if he could survive,necares mountain was stronger in toxins then even he could take long.
A big thing in mortys philosophy is that he believes if somethings to good to be true,its a lie.
In his point of view,he just got offered a free ticket to safety? Thats sketchy and frankly i give props for being wary.
After getting his buttons pushed in the right way,that was probably i think, his 1st step to dammnation.
Had the emporor save mortarion and let him kill necare? The pale king would never have chosen chaos
A lot of people downplay just how much morty went through in his life pre and post chaos.
Pre chaos, Morty suffered day in and day out,the only solace in his life now being the death guard,typhus and his work.
And when typhus betrayed him,it wasnt a sinple "oh ill join chaos!" Or anything like that.
The original reason why he sided with horus was mostly so he could sate his grudge on the inperium. Literally noone else was on his mind but him.
Post chaos,morty has been twisted by nurgles gifts. Where the old morty would rage and fight aganst the dying of the light,the morty of now is tired. Tired,losing his mind,and his emotions. Yet he still carrys on,fueled by his grudges.
The death guard under Morty stull remember him as the one who delivered them from necares tyrany,and even if this is barely any different,they still would gladly die for him,and morty still holds some care in his undead,fetid heart.
Hell id say of the traitor primarchs,magnus and mortarion are the most rebelious since they dont actively contribute
In the case of magnus, literally half of his own soul fights in the inperiums name from the shadows,while magnus himself only fucks with the wolves and maybe the ocasional world if he absolutely has to.
And mortarion? Not only does he constantly go off nurgles script,he doesnt even like him
The only reason he even bothers with the inperium anymore is mostly because of his grudges
I believe that if Magnus and mortarion rejoined the loyalists,chaos would be well and utterly fucked.
Used to be a huge fan of the more Chaos Worshipping legions but now I'm starting to really love the Night Lords. Something about the fact that they're the only "Chaos" legion that openly spits in the faces of the Chaos Gods and the Emperor is amazing and quite hilarious.
I guess Decimus would be the only way to unite the Night Lords because he can foresee even THEIR random ass whims and presumably counteract them.
Mental Health is important. But I'm amazed at how many RUclips influences have not only had therapy, but have used their sponsor themselves! What a coincidental and non biased ad for cash.
It's sad and infuriating at the same time
Brother he needs to pay his bills 😭😭😔
I like the idea that one of the Alpha Legion Primarchs just controlling things from the sidelines to strengthen the Imperium. Guy could purposely be acrewing his legion, so them thinking they lost whatever goal just makes another level of "don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing!"
Is there any lore about whether the Chaos gods extend beyond the Milky Way? If so, do they know the true extent/origin of the Tyranids?
My theory is a flood type scenario where the Tyranids are actually the old ones
It would be kind of amusing if the warp actually corresponded to the whole universe. Maybe part of the game could reflect things going on elsewhere that we have no concept of.
And maybe a majority of the ships lost in the warp actually popped out in another galaxy....maybe to start new imperiums
The chaos gods are extra dimensional, as they are the same "individuals" as the chaos gods of Fantasy/Age of Sigmar.
@@blackc1479if it did there could be "Dead Space" in between. The Realm Of Chaos after the war in heaven basically grew Chaos Over pretty much all of the Milky Way but it does not extend beyond as there is a Literal Sea beyond... And they cannot leave their Island because of the tyranids Shadow walling them in
The warp doesn't overlap with the material world in the sense that the question implies.
Dude I love this kind of content. Warhammer lore is a struggle to get through at times and breaking it down like this has made me interested in some factions I usually wouldn’t give a second look. Like the Word Bearers who I honestly still don’t know a lot about but maybe I will soon.
That Alpha Legion book starring Solomon was basically the writer self inserting and having a main character syndrome with meta knowledge, took the wind out of the sails of Alpha Legion, tried to remove the mystique of Alpha Legion, basically a 4th wall break to berate the reader telling them that the "I am Alpharius line is stoooiopid".
Never played a 40k game, but the lore is pretty fascinating. Some good sci fi
I just want a Traitor Legion to actually be smart for once, I think that's why I and many others want the Alpha Legions Primarch to have some sort of grand plan wither to be truly a traitor or not it would be interesting.
If they were smart, they wouldn't be a Traitor Legion.
Honestly I might have missed something in my own readings of the Alpha Legion books, but from what I recall there are a few points that I feel should be brought up for context. Firstly, there are marines from the heresy still alive, just not as many. In Shroud of Night the main cast are Alpha Legionaries from the heresy that got trapped on a daemon world, and are still alive ot this day, so while most of the Alpha Legion stayed out of the Eye of Terror it does seem like some did enter it, even if it wasn't the majority. In Harrowmaster they even comment on how if this warband 'The Unsung' had turned up to the conclave, it would have caused quite a stir. Regarding Harrowmaster, it wasn't a gathering of all the Alpha Legion, just the cells in Ultima Segmentum that they could get in touch with who deigned to show up. Granted Ultima Segmentum is the largest Segmentum in the Imperium in terms of inhabited worlds so I wouldn't be surprised if this was the majority of the Alpha Legion, but technically it wasn't all of them that were called.
Good to know! I haven't read that book. I will have to check it out
@@weshammer Great read, would definitely recommend!
@@agentmaine4746any book where a legionnaire tries to leg-sweep Kharn while yelling " I am Alpharius, and I am your death!" while screaming internally is guaranteed to be a hit.
The points you bring up for the Alpha Legion, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons are really good! There's a collection of Primarch Short Stories "Blood of the Emperor" highlight how the Primarchs viewed their legions, and a lot of the exemplifies what becomes of those legions
@WesHammer which chaos legion is your favorite? I find the thousand suns terrifying and yet also awe-inspiring
Thousand Sons*
Honestly, the Traitor's reasons for falling to Chaos aren't all great, but it's their beliefs and goals which actually gives Chaos some flavour. ;)
Plus, didn't Abaddon treat Talos and his First Claw like crap just because they wouldn't bow? ;/
I’m not sure what you mean when you say that their reasons for falling to Chaos aren’t all that great. To me, they make perfect sense and I can understand 110% why someone would fall to chaos in the warhammer universe. Hell, I can see how someone could lose their mind in THIS world and hurt others in all sorts of different ways (going from the legal to illegal.)
@@SalviHippo Okay, I'm gonna list their characters' reasons for falling, all in Legion Order. And then I'll get into why I think there's a problem with those. Let's go:
3rd Legion:
- Fulgrim got possessed by a Demon, then he managed to regain control of his body, and he fully went Slaaneshi-drugs because... because.
- Eidolon and Lucius were just little shits.
- Fabius didn't really go Chaos.
4th Legion:
- Perty didn't turn to Chaos so much as rebel against the Big E. But his ascension to Daemon Prince was a massive waste imo. He could've made for a good counterpart to Guilliman. :/
8th Legion: Not Chaos so much as renegade.
12th Legion: Angron was a douchebag. He had his reasons though. The World Eaters were dragged into Khorne by force.
14th Legion: Oh boy, here we go!
- Mortarion got dragged into Nurgle against his will and turned into a Daemon Prince. But then he accepted his new status and transformed his world into a replica of Barbarus, becoming everything he claimed to hate... while still preaching hatred for the witch. Like a hypocrit. Like father, like son I guess. :/
- Typhus is a dickhead and went full Chaos.
15h Legion:
- Magnus did everything wrong and got played.
- Ahriman also got played and thinks he's free, but he's not.
16th Legion:
- Horus fell because he saw a vision of the future, that he chose to believe was the only future because reasons? I get it, and it works on paper. But I really struggle to think as to what exactly went through his head to convince him to go full genocide.
- Abaddon and most of the Sons of Horus went with it because Daddy Horus knows best. Then Abby grew desillusioned and went on to make the exact same failures than Horus as Warmaster when it comes to Chaos. But with more hypocrisy, since he claims to be his own master.
- Iskandar Khayon went like: "Fuck Magnus and my Legion, I'm joining with a true brothrhood."
17th Legion:
- Erebus was a Chaos worshipper from the beginning. Same with Kor Phaeron.
- Lorgar got raised by Kor Phaeron, then got his city razed by the Big E., and then got into a pilgrimage.
- Argel Tal followed because he truly believed in Chaos being a boon for humanity. He was the best Chaos character imo, but he got shanked and died.
XXth Legion: Not Chaos. Maybe. Perhaps.
So, as to my actual problem with these. Sure if you get the full picture, most of these stories are somewhat deep. But if you only take the main, official, most-read sources, the fall of certain Primarchs like Perturabo or Fulgrim does look quite shallow. And some flipflop between deep nuanced characters and cartoonish villains between books. You have to truly dig into side-materials to get a better idea of it. (This is a writing quirk of 40k , but also a source of problems in its narrative for many including me.) And even then, it feels like the authors made certain Primarchs fall like that because the plot demanded it - Fulgrim and Mortarion especially.
That being said, this isn't my main problem with Chaos in 40k. (That would be how Chaos is portrayed most of the time in 40k.) But it's one that does make the Heresy a tad less good for me. :/
@Archon3960 Horus being freed of corruption by Leman and still thinking after all that he destroyed that he somehow was right was so weird. How was Horus,the one who was so close and cozy with the Emperor see a vision and witness how absolutely evil they are and think "The demons are gone but they're still better than dad because.....well because." Horus was literally the only one with the fewest reasons to hate the Emperor. He was the most spoiled and had the most clout. Give his soul to Chaos for what?
He's already immortal,has endless power over every Primarch and their legion,his brothers love him,yet he gets shanked and shown a vision and suddenly not even Magnus can tell him that this insane demonic dream he's having is a lie because.....because. 🎉
Thousand son had an actual, "GOOD", reason for falling to Chaos.
Wes, I'd be super interested in a video about times the Eldar (and other factions) came to the aid of the Imperium. There's a lot of fragmented lore around, but there's really nothing dedicated to 'those times the Imperium recieved aid from non-humans, and why'.
Could that be a topic?
The Alpha Legion’s tolerance of aliens is refreshing
The butchers surgeons don't use sorcery... if they did they'd die pretty quickly as they lost their heads for using forbidden sorcery!
I do love this video, gives an excellent framing for each of the legions!
I'll admit it's not super clear. It says it's derived from methods used during the horus heresy, and when you go to the horus heresy black books to read about it, it says that sorcery was used. But during the great crusade the world eaters definitely had psychers. It would take agron becoming a demon before all of their psychers were wiped out. So when you read the new world eaters codex, it doesn't clarify if they are the ones using the sorcery or it's their dark mechanicum allies. My thought would be the latter.
Buuuuut despite korn legions denail of sorcery at the end of the day they are still part of chaos and hence still are made of the essencse of the warp wish by its nature its still all “magical”. After all they still use abnormal anomolys effect in combat wether it be abnormal pysical possible resistance boost, strength boost, “magic” canons n swords n mounts weaponry, just plain fire breathing, being resistence to some magic stuff or just straight one use portals to get to the heart of battle. They still are part of the warp and hence still use its “magic” to some extent just that they use it only in a need to need basic requirements and the least amount has possible in comparasion to other chaos forces. They still use sorcery just they do it has least has possible and on a need to need neccecity bases.
In the old Liber Chaotica and Slaves to Darkness it said how to do Khorne summonings and rites it's less sorcery and more like them channelling violence. For summonings they'll find battle sites, and then they'll just provoke acts of violence in that area to keep thinning the veil until it rips.
The Butcher surgeons likely use gene manipulation combined with daemonic ick to do anything to speed the process up. Khrone himself see's sorcery and psykers as a debasement of martial honour and prowess, it's one of the reasons Tzeentch often ranks highly on his hit list behind Slaanesh and it was the reason for the brass collars being considered one of the highest blessings..
But like everything the Chaos gods are fickle and infinite!
@@weshammer
8:32 The irony that in a way the Word Bearers are the most lawful of legions, they simply follow not the Emperor's law, but what they perceive to be a natural law. They bind themselves to and force upon others an undefiable hierarchy, if gods exist they are above mortals and so must be worshiped. Is that more an artifice of law than one who says "yes something that could be called a 'god' exists, but they are evil and undeserving of worship." The Emperor, who sees those beings and willfully denies them is in many ways more chaotic (small c) than the Word Bearers themselves.
Abaddon's aware of how difficult it is to unite them.
It's why he'll put the ones he most distrusts in the vanguard so they're more likely to get killed.
The guy's probably a master politician by this stage managing his own legion, relations with the legions which still have their Primarchs and with other warbands.
This was incredibly poignant and absolutely brilliant! You really highlighted the layers and depth to chaos and the different philosophies each legion stands by! They are by far one of the most interesting factions, like them or not, in not just 40k, but in fantasy/scifi fiction as a whole. I've never seen them being shown the respect and objective fascination that they deserve more than your channel achieves. You are by far, not only one of the best 40k youtubers, but one of the most passionate, unbiased, and effective lore channels on the platform. Well done! You truly embodied why I love chaos so much!
If only Big E could have been a bit more kind to his sons most probably would not have turned although the one who becomes warmaster was destined to fall.
I would say the word bearers are the most zealous of all of them and the world eaters were just trying to match the wavelength of the unstable sire, but the Alpha legion, is that even a thing? And I love the background melody and how you describe things, thank you weshammer for making us love WH40K
Another thing people miss regarding the thousand sons,the reason there fucked over isnt because there corrupted.
Post rubric of arhiman,the survivors of the thousand sons were made immune to chaos,bar the collection of shards making up chaos magnus.
The reason why there stuck with chaos is twofold
The biggest reason being that despite the immunitys to corruption,tzeench has made a claim on Magnus' and by extension every thousand sons soul despite the thousand sons genes and magnus himself were made by the emporor. Not only that,the other part of this reason is that tzeench has his direct focus on them,and had it since 10 milenia. If anything no matter what,the thousand sons were fucked if the emporor was constantly near them or at least fucked up tzeench.
The 2nd reason being the fact they literally have nowhere else to go.
During the heresy when leman went feral on the thousand sons,they literally sought asylum with horus and the traitors because of the burning of prospero,to which horus allowed,if only because chaos horus needed any help he could get. And you know what the thousand sons did?
One thousand son joined in saving ULTRAMAR. Another thousand sons,arvida BECAME A GREY KNIGHT.
And to top that off, Magnus' in his madness still put himself together enough to send the photep to play mvp to help sharrowkyn and friends.
Even on the traitor side,the majority of thousand sons did absolute fuck all to contribute,with magnus almost becoming a full loyalist,which had that happen, would have rapidly fucked horus up in the worst way possible.
And on top of that pre daemon shard of magnus was stable enough to help a not fully acended mortarion,making his newfound pain bearable enough to fight. And he saved loyalist civilians. What traitor would do ANY OF THIS. For the inperium even?
Hell in the modern time,the 40k thousand sons apart from getting payback on the wolves,the ones who razed prospero being long dead be dammed,a lot of the legion bar arhimans warband and other small cabals literally helped magnus retake prospero,and create a small empire,which arguably is more nicer and able to train psykers then the inperiums rampant hypocrisy about them.
Let this sink in. Despite everything theyve done,most of the thousand sons,and a great many 30k night lords were possibly one of the least truely evil of the traitors.
Unfortunately its all part of Big Blues plan 😕
It's pretty well ironed out in lore for anyone reading the books that Magnus was forced to join chaos
@@mikekillian6154 and not only that,magnus could care less about chaos,same as abbadon
Hell abbadon despite the memes actually is fairly competent,the only reason hes struggling so hard is his old lore sucks compared to new,and gw eliminating a lot of nuance that goes into each chaos marine
@@lolbots686 tbh I've always found it weird a space marine vs one of the fallen primarchs is the main antagonist
Wes I’ve been laying face down in my bed suffering from nurgles rot. This video is the first thing I’ve watched. Thank you! I feel the emperor’s light
Hope you feel better
@@weshammer thank you Wes!
Would be nice to get a deep-dive into the Blood Ravens lore. Love their thieving shenanigans.
05:29 it bit someone alright and it wasn't really the Word Bearers, Big E on the other hand would seriously come to rue this day.
dear youtube prem member click here for no commercials 3:30
Wait, does this mean the WE could clone Angron and get a father who actually has a bit of love? Kinda like Bile and Clonegrim?
That would be a cool idea. A not-mad, non-daemon and non-Butcher Nails Angron sounds like the ideal Primarch for the World Eaters.
Decimus’ story is still canon. In the 8th Ed Chaos codex, it’s mentioned that the unified Night Lords are going after Ulthwe.
Imperium: WHAT IS THE ALPHA LEGION PLANNING?!
Alpha Legion: WHAT ARE WE PLANNING?!
16:44 i can imagine there being a members rolling their eyes saying: "oh please we know already!"
While I not always agree with Wes's videos and lore explanations, this one is bang on. As a huge chaos fan I am super happy about the depiction of the Word Bearers and Night lords specifically. Love your content man
always appreciate how structured and time stamped videos are!
You really sold me on the alpha Legion. Their new lore seems cooler than before.
The Idea of a legion that operates as disjointed insurgency cells appeals to me.
Also they are correct in the assessment that if the Imperium was destroyed, humanity might be better off for it.
You've made my week Wez with this video! Keep doing what you do!
17:06 Solomon went Thug Life on the clones
Correction: the Emperor didn't burn Monarchia to the ground because Lorgar & his Word Bearers didn't ''meet their quota of compliance".
He did it, because Logar & the Word Bearers worshipped him as a god & were actively converting the populations of the planets they conquered into this religion.
Remember, the Emperor had outlawed every type of organized religion in his Imperium, because he feared that religious believes are fueling the Chaos Gods.
He actually gave Lorgar a couple of warnings, that if he doesn't stop the whole worshipping/ proselytizing -thing, there would be severe consequences.
Lorgar didn't pay any attention to this, so Big E decided to do something drastic, have Monarchia wiped out and the Word Bearers humiliated.
Ironically, the whole thing backfired spectacularly and pushed Lorgar & the Word Bearers into the arms of Chaos.
Although it's true, the emperor pretty explicitly did not want to be worshiped he allowed lorgar and the word bearers to do it and did not outright condem it until it began to interfere with their effectiveness. This is one of the main things that pushed lorgar over the edge and why he felt so betrayed by him. It wasn't like the emperor was constantly telling him not to do it over and over and then suddenly snapped. If it kept them in line and kept them doing exactly what he wanted, he stayed quiet on it. I'm pretty sure this was covered in first heretic
According to the Novell “The Talon of Horus“, the Alpha Legion were/are in the eye. Abaddon himself states this, when he argues with Iskandar Khayon.
Maybe only some of them went into the eye
Another excellent video, Wes!
"its like hearding cats... If the cats were 8ft tall donic super soldiers"....so like big cats lmao
Biiiiiiiig cats 😂
Goodness me! “Rage is the highest form of sentience”. Gosh! But they do make their evil acts sounds incredible sensible. Expansion then decay, following true gods etc.
I find this take on Chaos intriguing and I’d like to sign up for their newsletter.
And you know, I’ve always rather liked hooping and hollering.
Yes the more I think about it the more I really think this might be just the ticket for me.
“Hail Slanesh!” Indeed, eh?
Sounds like a fine old jape!
I absolutely love your chaos apologist videos like this one. Finding the good and justifiable in the bad and irredeemable makes my brain do a happy 😊
Really?? You of all people sponsoring that company saddens me. A lot has come to light about them not actually being as good as they portray themselves :/
That being said, this video is awesomely thorough and your effort definitely shows
Eh, I agree. Better Help is scammy trash. But I'm all for Wes taking their money and spending it on something good aka Warhammer 40k Lore videos.
Ngl has there been any YT sponsors that are ever legit?
I absolutely love how this open with the question of “what do they want?”
Thank you for the deep dig, Wes!!!
Appreciate the work you put into this!!
Perspectives!!
Cheers!!
"Harrowmaster" only cover a little of the active Alpha Legion. Kassar from the "Shroud of Night" fought during the heresy
I 100% love this version of the Alpha Legion more than all the conspiracy/fan theories.
I've just recently listened to Conrad's primarch novel and you were right it's just a straight up horror novel but it's so good
I love how he's telling the story but it goes from present to past and all the while your shown how unhinged he is
Some info on BetterHelp'
The FTC says the company doubled down on deception by falsely denying it had shared consumers' personal information - including their health information - with third parties. The eight-count complaint details how the FTC says BetterHelp's allegedly deceptive and unfair practices harmed consumers
Loving the content lately 😮💨 keep it up 🤙🏻
Also for those wondering about the night lords
Pre and post heresy they still try to stay anti chaos
Sure you might see the warband blasting magic,but most night lords keep chaos at arms length because they saw first hand how self destructive it is most of the time
Hell they even shun night lords sworn to chaos.
A big reason why the night lords are so scattered is because of nostramo tainting the night lords ranks. It also never helped konrad was on a downward spiral of madness
Early in the crusade,konrad had his mental snaps on ocasion,but he was willing to serve in the crusade and all that and did have a basic understanding of what to do.
After konrad put dorn on his ass, this would spark the downward spiral to insanity
Something people forgot because at the time when konrad told fulgrim,who relayed it to dorn about his visions,He was actually trying to warn the inperium of the dark path ahead,and dorn reacted in the way youd expect.
Had dorn heed curzes visions or better yet the emporor hears them,so much could change,from many primarchs not being tainted,to chaos not even getting close to the primarchs if curze or sanguinus saw and warned the others.
As the heresy went on and on,konrad was literally fighting himself to maintain some kind of control of himself,with sevatar actively trying to do all he could while others tried the opposite
Then came his vindication. In his now beyond and fully twisted mind,he thought he would die to prove his point that his visions were fixed despite konrad during the early stages of the crusade not believing this as strongly.
Konrad would eventually die as he lived on nostramo,scared and twisted.
After this,the night lords lost sevatar
Without him,the atramentar shattered and so the legion as well.
Its why decimus is actually an incredible leader since he has the power and will to unite the legion should he sucsseed
Hydra Dominatus brother!
12:29 My only quible here is that Harrowmaster gives us insight into a group of Alpha Legion warbands in a part of the Ultima Segmentum. Other Alpha Legion warbands in other parts of the Galaxy could have better record keeping, different motivations and drives, warbands near the Eye of Terror may have escaped there, etc.
Like it when wes uploads another vid. So damn entertaining!
ove them or hate them, you must however admit that the alpha Legion has some Savage drip! Their armor with its designs and the gilding and the dragon scales & the crests? omigod and just that sea-green with the silver? So badass!
I wonder what the word bearers would do once the emperor reaches apotheosis and becomes yet another god
Emperors children: you don’t get to tell me i can’t snort it/kill it/f**k it/ all of the above
Thank you for this insightful video s. Love your mix of knowledge, personal vision and your obvious love for the 40k setting! Every video you make is just quality.
I am a fantasy guy myself. But due to listening to your channel, getting to know more and more about 40k and its universe. I finally started my first 40k army; The World Eaters!!! My new, and first 40k, project ❤❤❤
Passages from "Angel Exterminatus" and "Slaves To Darkness" reference that Perturabo's soul is being siphoned in a way that resembles what happens to the Drukhari. Some theorize that Perturabo has been missing from the setting, because he didn't ACTUALLY go daemon. In his refusal to bend to Chaos, he's been spending his time trying to stop, or circumvent that siphoning. Essentially turning himself into a Dreadnought. Others say that he just kind of decided, "fukkit" and went daemon because it was the only way. Backed into a corner, similarly to Magnus and Mortarion.
But the quote about how Perturabo and The Iron Warriors want to force order upon Chaos really reminded me of a different theory. There's that one theory that talks about how the Emperor was ACTUALLY actively seeking Godhood. He wanted to become a fifth Chaos God, and basically be a Chaos God of "Order"
This is such a tin-foil hat, cooked conspiracy, that I think could be somewhat correct for no other reason than the fact that it is so insanely, "wtf" But here it is;
I would open up the theory by referencing to the fight between Guilliman, and Mortarion. Where the Emperor basically possessed Guilliman's body to completely dunk on Mortation. The biggest thing that pressed Perturabo to go traitor, was his jealousy and anger towards Dorn. By the time we get to the Siege of Terra, Perturabo is kind of done with everybody's bullshit. But just stayed traitor because he was just kind of way too invested at this point. He was over all of the bullshit, so he busted up the palace and basically said, "Alright, cool, I've fulfilled my oath, I upheld my end of the bargain, I don't really have anything else for y'all, GLHF." withdrawing all of his forces and ragequitting. Perturabo regretted going traitor after he saw how far his brothers plunged into madness. But it isn't like he could ever come back to the Imperium. I would also like to note the Fulgrim clone. The Fulgrim clone was perfect. Since his original body got yoinked by the daemon. And then there was the Horus clone. The Horus clone was a little piece of shit. But the Fulgrim clone was LITERALLY him. The Primarchs are not their bodies. The Primarchs are their souls. Perturabo's soul is being siphoned / eaten away. And he regrets going traitor. Perturabo and the Emperor have such a hardcore anti-god/anti-warp mindset. What if Perturabo comes back as like, an "avatar of order", the Emperor is filling the gap of Perturabo's soul. Emperor is channeling himself through Perturabo in a way. Or similarly to the Sanguinor, what if Perturabo comes back as like, "an imperial daemon"?
Writing this has also made me consider another conspiracy that is a MILLION times more cooked. Vashtorr is such an interesting Chaos entity. This dude doesn't play around. He doesn't do deceptive-daemon shit. He just has a good time being the arms dealer of Chaos. Just chilling at The Forge Of Souls making stuff, and the Chaos Gods don't really mess with him, cause I mean, he literally makes their shit, so they can't really get rid of him. The warp is completely unstable.The Chaos Gods have to begrudgingly accept his existence because of how influential he is. This lad literally binds lesser daemons to his will via contract. And Perturabo is known for his expert craftsmanship, and innovation. Vashtorr owes no allegiance to anything but himself. Even the high and mighty all-powerful pantheon of Chaos is essentially stuck kneeling to The Arkifane due to his purpose. What if Perturabo found a way to master the Warp...? What if he truly found a way to dominate it? What if Vashtorr IS Perturabo? Vashtorr is just a version of Perturabo from the future, finding Vashtorr in the current setting due to a combination of time shenanigans, and warp spaghetti. Or Vashtorr is a version of Perturabo from an alternative universe/timeline/reality. Or at the very least, due to the soul drainage it might not be Perturabo COMPLETELY, but what if there are just pieces / remnants of Perturabo within Vashtorr? Kind of like how Magnus was shattered into the various shards. Those shards are incredibly powerful, with Malcedor literally creating The Gray Knights using them. So what if it's something somewhat similar?
OH SHIT THE LEGEND LIKED MY COMMENT, MAYBE MY THEORY WILL BE HEARD I will continue the theory:
I don't remember where it was mentioned, but it was said that The Fall Of Cadia was an omen of Perturabo's return. So I like to believe that Perturabo and the Iron Warriors will return along with Rogal Dorn. The Nachmund Gauntlet is a space right outside of The Eye Of Terror, and is generally one of the only passages to/from Nihilus. The Iron Warriors crawl out of the eye of terror and set up shop to keep the Imperium split in two. With Perturabo's return, it only seems right that Dorn also returns too. Finding out where he's been, or what he's been up to, and having another showdown between the two. It would be a grueling siege akin to the Siege Of Terra, where the loyalist forces would be facing increasing resistance from Chaos and daemons alike. Just when the campaign seems to be a failure, the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and the Lion end up coming in, pushing Perturabo and The Iron Warriors back into the eye, where Dorn and his sons would be essentially tasked with holding The Nachmund Gauntlet. Not only because of their defensive expertise, but also because of their extremely stable geneseed, and inscrutable will.
Alternatively it may be the opposite; Dorn and the Fists pop up to secure The Nachmund Gauntlet, and upon hearing of his return, it kicks Perturabo into gear to stop being AFK. Gathering his forces, Perturabo lays siege to The Nachmund Gauntlet to try and open it back up. - Maybe we'd even get to see some new daemon-engine monstrosities for tabletop to go along with this.
I stopped reading once I saw "chaos God of order". It's just nonsense.
@@Tommybotham Not really, considering Malal. The Chaos God that essentially wanted to kill Chaos. But even if you don't consider that to be canon, it's still not entirely out of reason. Since the Chaos Gods are reflections and manifestations of emotion, maybe "order" isn't the right word, but pretty much all creatures have a need to organize. Whether it be a flock of birds, a pack of dogs, a tribe of primitives, or a galaxy spanning empire. It's practically ingrained nature to organize, control, and understand.
@@dasvuffenspousaller2872 Malal is explained well: he's parasitic in nature and is chaos unrestrained.
This whole Emperor being a Chaos God of order is just silly. The IoM is a death cult and has been ever since the GC. If the Emperor gains apotheosis, he would become a God of Death. Death is the end of all things. No blood flowing (Khorne), no decay (Nurgle), no sensation (Slaanesh) and no threads to interfere with (Tzeentch). That is why he is anathema to the Chaos God's. He represents their complete end.
Hell yeah new heretical video!
Also that sponsor mention and transition was smooth
Not Going to lie, Ave Dominus Nox
Love The way the Enperoers children look. They may do some evil stuff but in the 40k universe who doesn't lol. I hope fulgrim can return soon so I can begin collecting them for 40k
I always thought I was Alpharius. But now I know Weshammer is Alpharius.
I've always been a bit confused about the Iron Warriors. Back in 3rd ed, they hated daemons and couldn't field them with minor exceptions. Now they're built all around machines infused with daemons. I don't know what suits them best, or whether to lean into it being yet another schism.
Daemon engines are bound and lack autonomy compared to many regular daemons, so I suspect they feel the greater control acceptable
"cats would be 8 foot tall daemonic supersoldiers, blessed with the unholy might of the dark gods."
Exactly. Cats are not 8 foot tall.
No one expects the Alpharius Alpha Legion!
Their chief weapon is that no one knows what their chief weapon is.
People really dont give Abaddon any love but he's my favourite badguy. 'Horus was weak, Horus was a fool'.
Ahh alpha legion, closeted loyalist
i wonder if they will ever have someone who serves the good aspects of the chaos gods and does good in their name.
Oh my well this is a wonderful surprise to have on a good night and such a unique topic love the work Wes keep up the great work
Writing this comment to remind people that Abbadon has one of the original Grey knights chained up on his ship with two nulls sewn to his chest and back. All so Abbadon could implant the Grey knights gene seed into his body to prevent him from falling to chaos.
Who wants to rock out with the cool masks and the shovels? 👺
You son of a bitch
Count me in
Wow the recent alpha legion lore is so tragic.
Can Weshammer review the TTS series by Bruva Alfabusa?
How can anyone review the perfect one true canon of 40K?
For those of you who dont understand Abaddons mentality towards the summoning of deamons here... I ask you one question. Is a hammer not a hammer if it is called something else by someone else?
Unlike Horus, Abaddon allows the warbands to use their individual skills to the best of their ability as well as planning to do so. Thats honestly why he's a better warmaster than horus.
can you make a similar video but with factions like the Red Corsair?
Yes absolutely.
@@weshammeryes!
Weshammer's channel is like watching the Nickelback of grimdark.
The Alpha Legion being so secretive and confusing that it ends up biting them in the ass to the point where even _they_ don’t know what and who they are anymore- when we think they did all along is honestly the most Alpha Legion thing ever. Hilarious.