It's hilarious how literally the entire conlang sphere of youtube knows eachother. Also I kind of hate you for briefly making me think you got Nativlang in on this.
It seems to be that way with the "chronic illness vlog" section as well. A vlogger in Minnesota with X illness knows one on the East Coast with Y illness and vice versa. I think it even crosses international borders.
It's amazing how Tolkien was, and continues to be, way ahead of the game as far as conlanging and worldbuilding goes. He was doing everything worldbuilders today try to do. The Hobbits even had a lunisolar calendar based off of the Germanic calendar, long before Xidnaf or anyone else had some rant on calendar systems in worldbuilding. Tolkien also remains ahead of the game in his naming, and how his aesthetics play on English sound-associations, and linguistic history (as opposed to the more utilitarian romanisations many conlanger use). Take this excerpt about the river Baranduin: The name Baranduin was Sindarin for "golden-brown river", from baran and duin.[3] The Hobbits of the Shire originally gave it the punning name Branda-nîn, meaning "border water" in original Hobbitish Westron. This was later punned again as Bralda-hîm meaning "heady ale" (referring to the colour of its water), which Tolkien renders into English as Brandywine.[4] The word Brandywine both resembles the original Elvish name Baranduin, and provides the Hobbitish meaning adequately. The word brandywine was actually the archaic English word for brandy as imported from the Dutch brandewijn. David Salo noted that it represents a possible Old English *baernedwin, meaning "burned wine", which would resemble quite closely the original Elvish Baranduin,[5] making Hobbitish Brandywine a legitimate corruption of S. Baranduin.
I think it's a combination of his academic background, fantastical imagination, and a great deal of work (dedicating a large portion of his life) that goes in to making it all so special!
The actual order of his creative process: 1. I'm gonna call this river Brandywine because hobbits are all british-y and cute. 2. Oh but now I'm writing a serious epic with elvish names for everything. What if the aforementioned Brandywine was the 'Baranduin' all along! 3. Uhh but the hobbits don't have the english words brandy and wine because english is from our world. Shit, better invent a chain of Hobbitish Westron puns to get us to something that roughly translates to the english. It's clever, but clongers are literally inventing the vocab as they go so it's not difficult to come up with this stuff per se.
Interestingly, there is actually some debate as to whether or not Chinese functions as a language family or as a series of dialects. Many Chinese people see what linguists call the Sinitic Branch of the Sino-Tibetan language family (including Mandarin, Cantonese, Gan, Hui, Jin, Hokkien, Min, and Wu) as dialects of Chinese, similar to the difference between Australian English, Cork English, and Bostonian English. However, the Sinitic languages tend to have little mutual intelligibility. While the aforementioned English speakers may have a hard time understanding each other, they could probably converse somewhat well: this is usually not true of someone from Shanghai who speaks Wu and someone from Jiangsu who speaks Mandarin. This is further complicated by the fact that all of these languages have their own dialects, reducing conversational ability even more. Additionally, Chinese language family speakers typically use a standardized form of written communication, called Standard Chinese, which is similar to how Standard Arabic functions in the Arabic-speaking world, where thousands of local dialects exist. Because of this, Chinese is sometimes referred to as a family of closely related spoken languages, but only a select few written languages (for written Cantonese, written Shanghainese Wu, and written Hokkien are also commonly used). To add in political conflict, several areas of the globe that speak Cantonese are Hong Kong and Macau, who both claim independence from mainland China and whom the Chinese government does not officially recognize as independent. A person from Hong Kong may justly feel sore about their language being referred to as "Chinese". The same is true of Hokkien, primarily spoken in Taiwan. All in all, it's a complicated issue, but one that interests me a lot :)
Now that you mention it, the phrase "cellar door" does have a nice ring to it, especially in non-rhotic varieties of English. "If we set sail now we'll be in Selador by morning!"
I used to think this way too, so I should get it, but for whatever reason I don't really understand why people find the rhotic r to be ugly (or at least uglier)
Smerg the Dargon its interesting cause he usually pronounces english TH as T/D so i thought that was the case, but then he pronounces other instances of th right
Hákon D yeah, some brazilian portugueae dialects have that phoneme, and this pronunciation is far from voiceless, is just a affricate, but it isnt easy also, so it's ok.
On April fool's day you should do an episode on German as if you don't know it's a real language and criticising it for copying English and Latin and having too complicated word order
Or on English... I mean, this whole language is basically a bunch of words stolen from other, *real* languages and just sort of mashed together haphazardly
Though people may at first disagree, the irish system of adding letters instead of replacing them offers a HUGE advantage to learners: If you read a word, you immediately know where to look it up in the dictionary!
Can you please make an episode on Ämärangnä, also known as Adytite, from the SCP Foundation? It's a natlang that, in universe, broke off from Proto-Uralic as Old Adytite, which was the official language of the Kalmaktama Empire (Lit. "Deathless") and currently serves as a secret religious language for the Sarkic Cults. The SCP wiki has a full article on it so it should be pretty easy to make. Love your channel!
I really enjoyed this video. I was really excited to see you get to this language! I don't think I agree with you that vocabulary is the least interesting aspect of evaluating a conlang, though. I find it interesting to see if the creator exhibited awareness of how the semantic space of words and usage differ between languages. I can see how that could be dull for a lot of people, but for the kind of people who like reading etymologies of words in natural languages and enjoy seeing how languages differ in this regard, that's a fun aspect of conlanging, too.
echant, eregion, teithant, and thiw all look and sound like Welsh! Celebrimbor looks like Middle Welsh. The -ant is a 3rd person plural past ending in literary Welsh* and it appears to be the same in the example! (* dros ryddid collasaaaaaaant eu gwaaaaaaaaed)
"My next video is the most effort I've ever put into anything in my entire RUclips career. I'd hate for you to miss it." Time to start making predictions and theories about what it could be!
I remember playing LOTRO back in the day and I noticed that the monsters had these cool plural names like "craban" became "crebain" in the plural and so on.
This will likely be my favourite episode ute, Iabsolutely LOVE lord of the rings and I especially like how there is so much background that isn’t shown in the books!
>saw this premiere like 12 hours ago >was hyped >decided not to click bc it was too soon, thinking others would do the same >90 likes and 45 comments >O H
Tengwar are beautiful, but I also like what Mark Rosenfelder wrote in The Language Construction Kit: “[k]eep the letters looking distinct. The best alphabets spread out over the conceptual graphic space, so that letters can’t be confused for one another. Tolkien [Tengwar] is a bad example here: the elves must have been tormented by dyslexia.”
When you talked about reading the sindarin dictionary and feeling like there are missing words remind me of the old nahuatl dictionary my great grandpa inherited to me, where many a words are spelled wrong and some words feel like they're missing. It's like a foreign person wrote a dictionary about it, and I feel like that makes sindarin at least a bit more interesting
Regarding the front rounded vowel, (as a Hungarian,) I'd say you're pronouncing it correctly. (at least for the first time around, 2nd time sound a bit forced, but otherwise, there is no issue)
Now we just need Quenya. Also been falling in love with Mando'a lately, so what if you reviewed that? If you do, Wookieepedia and Mandoa.org are invaluable resources.
Artifexian saying he's a little jealous that Tolkein was more inspired by Welsh than Irish made my day 'cause it's almost always the other way around xD
There's one tiny piece of evidence for an elvish language inspired by Old Irish. There's a list of different tribes' words for ‘elves’, and given the cognate nature of things, it really looks (to my eyes) like one is supposed to look like the Gaelic-ish counterpart to Sindarin. Specifically Old Irish, which would make sense given that Tolkien was a philologist.
Just a couple things I want to point out: First, a good descriptive approach to Sindarin and a decent compilation of words and roots can be found in David Salo's 'A Gateway to Sindarin' (books.google.com/books/about/A_Gateway_to_Sindarin.html?id=4dsSn0QAmi0C&source=kp_book_description). Second, most spoken Sindarin lines in the LotR movies were necessarily in a fan-made version of Sindarin, called Neo-Sindarin, that filled in many of the conversational gaps and missing words (more can be read about that here: tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Neo-Elvish and even published in a book here: books.google.com/books?id=FXInDwAAQBAJ&source=gbs_similarbooks). Thanks for the great video, looking forward to future conlang reviews!
As for the semi-duodecimal system, the way I see it is that it's very (VERY) much like Germanic languages… and like… English has kinda lost its word for a "gross" (even though "gross" still exists, it's not really used anymore) but older Germanic tongues did have it. I personally mostly know it from deriving a conlang of mine off Proto-Germanic but I wouldn't be surprised if Tolkien took from Old English's "hundred" versus "hund" and "ān" to "twelf" (knowing that eleven and twelve are actually *ainaz+*lif and *twa+*lif aka one+left and two+left (note that lif and left don't actually share the same root, funnily enough), so… they're not full on new numbers proper, but it's the same in a bunch of other languages; see: all derivations of latin ūndecim and duodecim that most often don't show their roots anymore (onze/once/jonco/indesch - doce/dotze/douze/dudesch/dóghi and of course English "dozen"). But yeah, imo this whole thing was just Tolkien fanboying a bit more about Old English. idk
The interesting bit is that, while perhaps it is somewhat coincidence, English may come close to a true "dual-base" language with no new coinages: if you use "dozen", "gross", and "great gross" (1728 or 1000[12]) you can name, in English, numbers in base-12 about as naturally as in base-10, at least up to BBBB[12] or 20,735: "eleven great gross, eleven gross, eleven dozen and eleven".
It’s hard to say that the celtic inspiration is bad, since canonically it is supposed to be an ancient ancestor of modern, real-world languages like welsh.
So... how long until we have a fighting game of: Language RUclips Vs. Bread Tube Vs. D&D RUclips Vs. Capcom? Actually... let's drop Capcom from that fighting game... just have Language Dork RUclips V. D&D RUclips V. Bread Tube. A fighting game that I would spend money on, and not even deny that I spent money on it. Even though I prolly should.
@@AvalonisHere Yeah so am I. Artifexian is talking about how a word with the sound /v/ would be spelt if it were Welsh, in which case it would be spelt with an Edit: in fact the Welsh word for "woman" with the soft mutation is spelt "fenyw" and pronounced with a /v/
@@Sprecherfuchs You are not understanding the point of the comment. "Note the different orthographic strategies. Irish adds letters, Welsh replaces letters, so if Irish were written like Welsh-" Irish does actually have a v in loanwords, so this is exactly 100% how Irish would write it if it had the replacement method Welsh has. Hopefully you get it now. "Written like Welsh" doesn't mean "written with the exact same orthography," it very clearly on context means "written with the same lenition orthography".
I use a 13-based number system to my fictional elves. It fits nicely in the other aspects of the language like the number of tones, and an odd-based number system represents very well their chaotic nature. in an even-based number system, the final digit dictates the even-or-odd-ness of the number in a simple ordered way, numbers ending in 2 are always even and numbers ending in 3 are always odd, but in an odd-based number system, the even-or-odd-ness shifts from "trezen" to "trezen", so 2 is even, 12 is odd, 22 is even, 32 is odd, etc.
In Welsh, the digraph "dd" (in "meddal") is the voiced dental non-sibilant fricative, ð, the same sound as the "th" in English words like thou, they and this (but not three, thorough and think). The voiced alveolar stop "d" which you used is represented by the letter "d". In the Welsh alphabet "dd" is a letter in its own right, as are ch, ff, ng, ll, ph, rh and th.
17:17 i didn't even realize this part literally says "the thing 'here's tree' is from" i only realized that after watching the 2014 christmas specials last night
Switch your brackets around, though. The slashes are used for broad transcriptions into the IPA, and the angle brackets are used for orthographical representations. Thus, the sound /f/ is represented by the spelling ⟨ff⟩ in Welsh.
That was fun. Sadly, I can't take a deep dive into this series. I'd be here all night and I have to go to work in the morning. 64.8 mg, I'm not sure they mean that kind of grain. But 5 sig figs is pretty darn good.
But Sindarin did not proceed from Noldorin. Sindarin originated from telerin spoken by Teleri elves who stayed in Beleriand when the rest of Eldar left Endor. Correct me if I am wrong
but EDGAR. WHAT ABOUT SCOTTISH GAELIC :'( i'm gonna go cry in a corner while i start the duolingo course for "Gaelic" (since irish gaelic is just called "Irish") because IT'S BEEN IN BETA FOR LIKE 3 DAYS FINALLY. sorry. I've moved to Scotland for Uni and fell in love with that language.
You should review Hebrew, it's a conlang that is actually WAY more popular than Esperanto. It's even spoken in Israel and in millions of diasporatic communities worldwide and has derived languages, such as Yiddish. It has gender, more variety then European vocabulary, and a unique alphabet based on the Latin, Greek and Phoenician alphabet, as well as some others. You'd love it!
wait...Edgar said "description", not "doobly-doo"....the world is ending! Sindarin has singular, plural and collective plural. That's kind of important. 64.8 grams of salt :D. Tolkien framed all his work as if it was historical research so even the dictionaries and stuff that he created were made to look like the real thing. Fans usually decide to play along. They were actually trying to make that look like a real dictionary. It does help that Tolkien developed an entire history for all his languages, so you can put etymological information in just like a real dictionary would.
yes, but in an abugida a specific vowel is indicated by not writing a diacritic, and in an abjad not writing a vowel diacritic means that there isn't a vowel (or it's just ambiguous what the vowel is)
Furthermore, the vowel tehtar were not always written. A word like "calma" was routinely written with just in the tengwar, as there were no other words which could cause confusion with that word. And my understanding is that other words also got that treatment. As such, I think that describing it as a mostly-but-not-entirely-vocalized abjad is fine.
@@Sovairu only the a-tehta was sometimes not written. As "a" is by far the most common vowel, it's absence is more noteworthy than it's presence. Quenya with no vowels at all would however be unreadable. Also, leaving out vowels only works because you're still indicating the presence of a final vowel by writing the carrier. Quenya quite frequently uses vowel alone to distinguish words. For example: ringa (damp, chilly) and ranga (pace). It isn't actually that no word could be confused for calma, there is also a word "celma" meaning "channel". Tengwar though, can be used for multiple languages. If you had a language that didn't use vowels alone to distinguish words as frequently as Quenya does: then it could certainly function as a true abjad, or as a true abugida.
@@sophiejones7727 I never once said that it was a never-vocalized abjad, did I? However, Arabic uses only vowels to distinguish large sets of words, and yet, its vowel diacritics are almost never used, except for foreign words and names, and for learning material. I am confident that knowledge of Quenya and context within a sentence would usually be enough to figure out what word is written, even with few tehtar being represented. Are you using adjectivally? Then it must be "ringa." Are you using nominally? Then it must be "ranga." So, no, it would not make Quenya "unreadable." Also, there is no real reason to use a vowel carrier in Quenya unless the word starts with a vowel, or there are multiple vowels next to each other, so vowel carriers really shouldn't be coming at the end of a Quenya word. And as for being used for "calma," Tolkien himself said that that was the natural reading for such a rendering: "In Quenya in which a was very frequent, its vowel sign was often omitted altogether. Thus for calma ‘lamp’ clm could be written. This would naturally be read as calma, since cl was not in Quenya a possible initial combination, and m never occurred finally. A possible reading was calama, but no such word existed." This quotation is from his Appendix E in the Lord of the Rings. The main point, though, is that the tengwar, even in universe, are not so vocalized as they might seem.
Galvin Escalona pull an all-nighter like I am lmao. I drank too many Cherry Coke Zeros, realized I was awake at 3 am, and then said fuck it, we’re staying up for this
i love this series! was wondering if you'd ever take a look at the ancient language from eragon/the inheritance cycle? apparently it's also based on celtic languages and i thought it was really cool when i read the series 👀
Old Norse in part, plus whatever words Christopher Paolini thought sounded cool. It's not a great language, but it is important to me personally on account of being the language that made me decide to research and begin constructing my own languages.
The Tengwar (elvish script) at 0:06 don't seem to spell but rather something like (?). Can somebody clarify what that means? Is it an alternative name for the language?
thanks, Edgar!
ok
Lenition occurs in Scottish gealic
Conlang Critic, do you use PowerPoint to make your videos?
google slides
How do you handle COPPA? You might be demonetized or fined if you don't mark your content correctly.
I'd love to see an April fool's video reviewing English as if it were a con lang.
@@kaziro But how about for real though?
@@pentelegomenon1175 ruclips.net/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/видео.html
And the script is written in Esperanto
@@ingwerschorle_ I really hope thats what the video will sound like
Yes
It's hilarious how literally the entire conlang sphere of youtube knows eachother. Also I kind of hate you for briefly making me think you got Nativlang in on this.
I mean, there's like 30k people throughout the whole world who are _really_ interested in conlanging, so.... yeah 😂
It seems to be that way with the "chronic illness vlog" section as well. A vlogger in Minnesota with X illness knows one on the East Coast with Y illness and vice versa. I think it even crosses international borders.
Have we had David Peterson on yet?
@@couchbug same for all cellular automata studiers. Im able to get in touch with just about anyone simply because we’re all friends of friends
Surely that's true for all spheres of youtube
I just love the "the book" is written as "i barf" when romanized.
CastMeAway I barf
books🤮
As a Welshie, hearing Artifexian speak Welsh in an Irish accent was interesting.
Ngl I laughed a tad at "treiglad medal" 😂
I didn't know Welsh had a uvular R
@@archeofutura_4606 It doesn't. Edgar can't pronounce a rolled r, unfortunately.
XMV Ziron i thought that was strange when I heard it.... lol imagine not being able to roll one’s Rs 😆
@@archeofutura_4606 ruclips.net/video/3378FlHK4v0/видео.html
It's amazing how Tolkien was, and continues to be, way ahead of the game as far as conlanging and worldbuilding goes. He was doing everything worldbuilders today try to do. The Hobbits even had a lunisolar calendar based off of the Germanic calendar, long before Xidnaf or anyone else had some rant on calendar systems in worldbuilding. Tolkien also remains ahead of the game in his naming, and how his aesthetics play on English sound-associations, and linguistic history (as opposed to the more utilitarian romanisations many conlanger use). Take this excerpt about the river Baranduin:
The name Baranduin was Sindarin for "golden-brown river", from baran and duin.[3]
The Hobbits of the Shire originally gave it the punning name Branda-nîn, meaning "border water" in original Hobbitish Westron. This was later punned again as Bralda-hîm meaning "heady ale" (referring to the colour of its water), which Tolkien renders into English as Brandywine.[4]
The word Brandywine both resembles the original Elvish name Baranduin, and provides the Hobbitish meaning adequately.
The word brandywine was actually the archaic English word for brandy as imported from the Dutch brandewijn. David Salo noted that it represents a possible Old English *baernedwin, meaning "burned wine", which would resemble quite closely the original Elvish Baranduin,[5] making Hobbitish Brandywine a legitimate corruption of S. Baranduin.
He truly was a gifted person!
I'm yet to read a world that convinces me of it's reality as much as Eä does!
I think it's a combination of his academic background, fantastical imagination, and a great deal of work (dedicating a large portion of his life) that goes in to making it all so special!
Hobbit calendar please tell my re
I've not heard xidnaf in 2 and a half years yikes
The actual order of his creative process:
1. I'm gonna call this river Brandywine because hobbits are all british-y and cute.
2. Oh but now I'm writing a serious epic with elvish names for everything. What if the aforementioned Brandywine was the 'Baranduin' all along!
3. Uhh but the hobbits don't have the english words brandy and wine because english is from our world. Shit, better invent a chain of Hobbitish Westron puns to get us to something that roughly translates to the english.
It's clever, but clongers are literally inventing the vocab as they go so it's not difficult to come up with this stuff per se.
What😳if😳we😳cellar😳door😳in😳2019?😳
yeremia frans [ˈsɐlˤ.ɻ̩ʷˈɖoːɻʷ]
Hot😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳😳
2020?
Damn
😳
shoutout to josh nativlang referencing xidnaf in one of his videos all the linguistics channels are interconnected
Zeri G. It was roasting him tho lol
fair
when did this happennnn
@@hhht7672 I would guess it is about his video titled "The Hardest Language to Spell"
/mi/ oooo
"Every fantasy nerds desire to catalogue things"
Very true. Very, very true.
11:23
Book, books
I barf
The books
How’s my poem?
Francois Roewer-Despres I barf
Nice haiku.
Mm nice
What is so funny about barf?
"Sindarin is one of the two languages people mean when they say 'Elvish.'"
Like when people say "Chinese."
Interestingly, there is actually some debate as to whether or not Chinese functions as a language family or as a series of dialects. Many Chinese people see what linguists call the Sinitic Branch of the Sino-Tibetan language family (including Mandarin, Cantonese, Gan, Hui, Jin, Hokkien, Min, and Wu) as dialects of Chinese, similar to the difference between Australian English, Cork English, and Bostonian English. However, the Sinitic languages tend to have little mutual intelligibility. While the aforementioned English speakers may have a hard time understanding each other, they could probably converse somewhat well: this is usually not true of someone from Shanghai who speaks Wu and someone from Jiangsu who speaks Mandarin. This is further complicated by the fact that all of these languages have their own dialects, reducing conversational ability even more. Additionally, Chinese language family speakers typically use a standardized form of written communication, called Standard Chinese, which is similar to how Standard Arabic functions in the Arabic-speaking world, where thousands of local dialects exist. Because of this, Chinese is sometimes referred to as a family of closely related spoken languages, but only a select few written languages (for written Cantonese, written Shanghainese Wu, and written Hokkien are also commonly used). To add in political conflict, several areas of the globe that speak Cantonese are Hong Kong and Macau, who both claim independence from mainland China and whom the Chinese government does not officially recognize as independent. A person from Hong Kong may justly feel sore about their language being referred to as "Chinese". The same is true of Hokkien, primarily spoken in Taiwan. All in all, it's a complicated issue, but one that interests me a lot :)
@@violetinreal8188 Cool, I didn't know that :O
Now that you mention it, the phrase "cellar door" does have a nice ring to it, especially in non-rhotic varieties of English.
"If we set sail now we'll be in Selador by morning!"
id523a One does not simply walk into Selador...
I think we need more door.
@@williamwebb580 It's gates are guarded by more than locks and the Great Wine is ever watchful
I used to think this way too, so I should get it, but for whatever reason I don't really understand why people find the rhotic r to be ugly (or at least uglier)
"Infinity War is the most ambitious crossover event in history."
jan Misali: hold my beer
hold my vötgil
jo e mi telo nasa
(my toki pona isn't that good, sorry)
Isaac Bates 'o jo e telo nasa mi' i think
hold my rjienrlwey
@@abyssalboy8811 imagine losing youre 人類 to milk puddign
10:55 I like how the Welsh word for "cats" is "cathod".
cat ray tube display
@@melol69 crt (cat ray tube)
Two vastly different graphics styles from the two makers, both are effective in conveying meaning and looking nice
imitating edgar's style was really fun
*Premiere in 15 hours*
I will wait every minute.
Facts
It says 15 hours ago lol
4:53
My boi Arftifexian really pronouncin' that Welsh "dd" wrong.
*_smh my head_*
Smerg the Dargon its interesting cause he usually pronounces english TH as T/D so i thought that was the case, but then he pronounces other instances of th right
Shaking my head my head too.
I'm shaking my head my head as well. He really should've known.
@@Ashley24306 Well, at least it's not pronouncing them as f.
He is Irish. The Irish cannot say th.
Why would you tease us like this?
As an Icelander, your pronunciation of r̥ really hurt my small linguistic heart :( 1:38
Yeah that killed me 😁
Hákon D yeah, some brazilian portugueae dialects have that phoneme, and this pronunciation is far from voiceless, is just a affricate, but it isnt easy also, so it's ok.
It had to be hr right? or no?
@@PX2000games como assim?
You think that's bad? As a Welshman, his pronunciation of "Meddal" completely killed me!
On April fool's day you should do an episode on German as if you don't know it's a real language and criticising it for copying English and Latin and having too complicated word order
Or on English... I mean, this whole language is basically a bunch of words stolen from other, *real* languages and just sort of mashed together haphazardly
I mean - English hailed from a more archaic form of German, so technically English is the one copying German, not the other way around
@@ODKBE Technically German and English descended from a common ancestor so no one copied anyone
Though people may at first disagree, the irish system of adding letters instead of replacing them offers a HUGE advantage to learners: If you read a word, you immediately know where to look it up in the dictionary!
as a tolkien nerd im like bursting with pride even though i havent done anything apart from just rereading all of jirts work as much as i possibly can
So this video is canonical proof that Conlang Critic, NativLang, and Artifexian all exist in the same constructed universe?!?!
If you watch Artifexian, you can add Xidnaf and Biblaridion
@@killianobrien2007 ðe conglang cinematic universe
@@jan_Eten I wonder if ŋə has ever crossed over
@@killianobrien2007Yes, Biblaridion appeared in one of the conlanging iceberg videos
I did not know that Fëanor made the writing system, when you said he’s name I almost spat out my drink like ‘*who now?*’
Can you please make an episode on Ämärangnä, also known as Adytite, from the SCP Foundation? It's a natlang that, in universe, broke off from Proto-Uralic as Old Adytite, which was the official language of the Kalmaktama Empire (Lit. "Deathless") and currently serves as a secret religious language for the Sarkic Cults. The SCP wiki has a full article on it so it should be pretty easy to make. Love your channel!
I really would've paid to see a collab between Artifexian, NativLang and Conlang Critic.
I mean come on it's the three language sages.
Langfocus and Biblaridion: am I a joke to you?
xidnaf:
Slam Wall I’d FLIP if langfocus got included
@@jslice6137 not really a language channel anymore :/
@@jaygryska317 Easily one of my favorite language youtubers! Whenever one of them posts a new video, it makes my day.
"f"s are pronounced as "v" in welsh 9:40
mhm
I really enjoyed this video. I was really excited to see you get to this language! I don't think I agree with you that vocabulary is the least interesting aspect of evaluating a conlang, though. I find it interesting to see if the creator exhibited awareness of how the semantic space of words and usage differ between languages. I can see how that could be dull for a lot of people, but for the kind of people who like reading etymologies of words in natural languages and enjoy seeing how languages differ in this regard, that's a fun aspect of conlanging, too.
"abjads and abugidas"
me: has vietnam war flashbacks to my first attempt at making a conlang when I was 12....
echant, eregion, teithant, and thiw all look and sound like Welsh! Celebrimbor looks like Middle Welsh. The -ant is a 3rd person plural past ending in literary Welsh* and it appears to be the same in the example! (* dros ryddid collasaaaaaaant eu gwaaaaaaaaed)
12:12 did you just convert an idiom into metric?
/v/ is written F in Welsh, and /f/ is written FF, unless the /f/ is a result of aspirate mutation of P which is then written PH!
Love the collaboration, but let's not forget our fallen linguistic hero that, in a perfect world, would be Jan Misali's best friend: Xidnaf.
Does jan misali even have friends? I think he is a robot
Oh cmon, i wanna see some tengwar
"My next video is the most effort I've ever put into anything in my entire RUclips career. I'd hate for you to miss it."
Time to start making predictions and theories about what it could be!
It was Poliespo wasn't it 😭
It was "😳what if we kissed😳in 2019😳"
It is the 2019 end of year meme video
I remember playing LOTRO back in the day and I noticed that the monsters had these cool plural names like "craban" became "crebain" in the plural and so on.
I looked in my RUclips feed to see “Uploaded 1 second ago”
This will likely be my favourite episode ute, Iabsolutely LOVE lord of the rings and I especially like how there is so much background that isn’t shown in the books!
Fun fact, Middle Earth does have a conlanger in it. It's none other than Sauron himself, creator of the Black Speech.
How can you talk about the doors of Durin without mentioning the tengwar mode of Berliand?
>saw this premiere like 12 hours ago
>was hyped
>decided not to click bc it was too soon, thinking others would do the same
>90 likes and 45 comments
>O H
Tengwar are beautiful, but I also like what Mark Rosenfelder wrote in The Language Construction Kit:
“[k]eep the letters looking distinct. The best alphabets spread out over the conceptual graphic space, so that letters can’t be confused for one another. Tolkien [Tengwar] is a bad example here: the elves must have been tormented by dyslexia.”
FUCKING HELL I FELL FOR THAT NATIVLANG COLLAB YOU DANG TRICKSTER
About “y”, you’re close, it just sounds very nasal when you do it....
Episode 30!!! It'll be 6PM in my country, when it airs. Finally! It says "the last episode in 2019''. So no Conlang Critic in December!
This seriously looks like a real language. Props, Tolkien.
Mandarin is one of my two native languages and I think your [y] is pretty good
He’s definitely improved his [y] since Folkspraak. Still kind of sounds...Swedish?
You mean since aui. Aui was the first language with /y/
When you talked about reading the sindarin dictionary and feeling like there are missing words remind me of the old nahuatl dictionary my great grandpa inherited to me, where many a words are spelled wrong and some words feel like they're missing. It's like a foreign person wrote a dictionary about it, and I feel like that makes sindarin at least a bit more interesting
Regarding the front rounded vowel, (as a Hungarian,) I'd say you're pronouncing it correctly. (at least for the first time around, 2nd time sound a bit forced, but otherwise, there is no issue)
translating the grain as a unit into mg made my day. Thanks Misali.
Your y is good.
Now we just need Quenya.
Also been falling in love with Mando'a lately, so what if you reviewed that? If you do, Wookieepedia and Mandoa.org are invaluable resources.
Bro, I have some great news for you
Did any other Welsh speakers die a little inside at 4:50 onwards?
Artifexian saying he's a little jealous that Tolkein was more inspired by Welsh than Irish made my day 'cause it's almost always the other way around xD
Based on ignorance, anyone than knows anything about Welsh. Its a lovely language and culture.
There's one tiny piece of evidence for an elvish language inspired by Old Irish. There's a list of different tribes' words for ‘elves’, and given the cognate nature of things, it really looks (to my eyes) like one is supposed to look like the Gaelic-ish counterpart to Sindarin. Specifically Old Irish, which would make sense given that Tolkien was a philologist.
Just a couple things I want to point out:
First, a good descriptive approach to Sindarin and a decent compilation of words and roots can be found in David Salo's 'A Gateway to Sindarin' (books.google.com/books/about/A_Gateway_to_Sindarin.html?id=4dsSn0QAmi0C&source=kp_book_description).
Second, most spoken Sindarin lines in the LotR movies were necessarily in a fan-made version of Sindarin, called Neo-Sindarin, that filled in many of the conversational gaps and missing words (more can be read about that here: tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Neo-Elvish and even published in a book here: books.google.com/books?id=FXInDwAAQBAJ&source=gbs_similarbooks).
Thanks for the great video, looking forward to future conlang reviews!
4:47 ...is that Edgar doing a trill? Impossible.
As for the semi-duodecimal system, the way I see it is that it's very (VERY) much like Germanic languages… and like… English has kinda lost its word for a "gross" (even though "gross" still exists, it's not really used anymore) but older Germanic tongues did have it. I personally mostly know it from deriving a conlang of mine off Proto-Germanic but I wouldn't be surprised if Tolkien took from Old English's "hundred" versus "hund" and "ān" to "twelf" (knowing that eleven and twelve are actually *ainaz+*lif and *twa+*lif aka one+left and two+left (note that lif and left don't actually share the same root, funnily enough), so… they're not full on new numbers proper, but it's the same in a bunch of other languages; see: all derivations of latin ūndecim and duodecim that most often don't show their roots anymore (onze/once/jonco/indesch - doce/dotze/douze/dudesch/dóghi and of course English "dozen").
But yeah, imo this whole thing was just Tolkien fanboying a bit more about Old English. idk
The interesting bit is that, while perhaps it is somewhat coincidence, English may come close to a true "dual-base" language with no new coinages: if you use "dozen", "gross", and "great gross" (1728 or 1000[12]) you can name, in English, numbers in base-12 about as naturally as in base-10, at least up to BBBB[12] or 20,735: "eleven great gross, eleven gross, eleven dozen and eleven".
Actually, once definitely shows its root as the -ce is in the other numbers as well: once, doce, trece, catorce, quince.
It’s hard to say that the celtic inspiration is bad, since canonically it is supposed to be an ancient ancestor of modern, real-world languages like welsh.
So... how long until we have a fighting game of: Language RUclips Vs. Bread Tube Vs. D&D RUclips Vs. Capcom?
Actually... let's drop Capcom from that fighting game... just have Language Dork RUclips V. D&D RUclips V. Bread Tube. A fighting game that I would spend money on, and not even deny that I spent money on it. Even though I prolly should.
Great! Also using the 1st age name for Sindarin, Eglathrin, from the very beginning.
*plays at 0.75x*
Good advice for non-natives
I speak Turkish, which has that rounded front high/close vowel and you're pronouncing it right.
I need to study for my exams :( please stop tempting me with these delicious videos (DON'T STOP)
Thanks Edgar! Delightful episode and I can't wait to see your Quenya breakdown.
Your /y/ isn't that bad.
It's your /ø/ that's off lol
5:45 Welsh doesn't have the letter "v". It uses a single "f" for the /v/ sound and a double "f" for /f/
This is not actually contradicting the video. It's talking about orthographic strategy, not inventory.
@@AvalonisHere Yeah so am I. Artifexian is talking about how a word with the sound /v/ would be spelt if it were Welsh, in which case it would be spelt with an
Edit: in fact the Welsh word for "woman" with the soft mutation is spelt "fenyw" and pronounced with a /v/
@@Sprecherfuchs You are not understanding the point of the comment. "Note the different orthographic strategies. Irish adds letters, Welsh replaces letters, so if Irish were written like Welsh-"
Irish does actually have a v in loanwords, so this is exactly 100% how Irish would write it if it had the replacement method Welsh has.
Hopefully you get it now. "Written like Welsh" doesn't mean "written with the exact same orthography," it very clearly on context means "written with the same lenition orthography".
I use a 13-based number system to my fictional elves. It fits nicely in the other aspects of the language like the number of tones, and an odd-based number system represents very well their chaotic nature. in an even-based number system, the final digit dictates the even-or-odd-ness of the number in a simple ordered way, numbers ending in 2 are always even and numbers ending in 3 are always odd, but in an odd-based number system, the even-or-odd-ness shifts from "trezen" to "trezen", so 2 is even, 12 is odd, 22 is even, 32 is odd, etc.
Cellar doors are beautiful (Welsh)
"Valiant" sound very great (Russian and stuff, Slavs have a lot of these sounds that I like)
In Welsh, the digraph "dd" (in "meddal") is the voiced dental non-sibilant fricative, ð, the same sound as the "th" in English words like thou, they and this (but not three, thorough and think). The voiced alveolar stop "d" which you used is represented by the letter "d". In the Welsh alphabet "dd" is a letter in its own right, as are ch, ff, ng, ll, ph, rh and th.
I know that Edgar can't do them but Dd Is a dental fricative in Welsh.
17:17 i didn't even realize this part literally says "the thing 'here's tree' is from" i only realized that after watching the 2014 christmas specials last night
@9:40 The /v/ is latinized to /f/ because in Welsh /f/ makes a ⟨v⟩ sound. (And the ⟨f⟩ sound is represented with a double /ff/).
Switch your brackets around, though. The slashes are used for broad transcriptions into the IPA, and the angle brackets are used for orthographical representations. Thus, the sound /f/ is represented by the spelling ⟨ff⟩ in Welsh.
Woah conlang critic releases an actual episode of conlang critic
Please do one of biblaridion’s conlangs. Puh-leeeease!
8:12 In devnagari the second line is read as 'muh' like in 'murder' not 'ma' as in 'mars'
My favorite conlangs:
-Volapük
-Sindarin
-Quenya
-The Black Speech
(Sed nullae tam verendae sunt quam Latina.)
That was fun. Sadly, I can't take a deep dive into this series. I'd be here all night and I have to go to work in the morning.
64.8 mg, I'm not sure they mean that kind of grain. But 5 sig figs is pretty darn good.
16:30 it's fucking true! all of us are already subscribed to the guy
But Sindarin did not proceed from Noldorin. Sindarin originated from telerin spoken by Teleri elves who stayed in Beleriand when the rest of Eldar left Endor. Correct me if I am wrong
I was talking about its real world history not its fictional history
I love how the Tolkien community had to basically reconstruct this language from Tolkien's notes and his other languages.
but EDGAR. WHAT ABOUT SCOTTISH GAELIC :'(
i'm gonna go cry in a corner while i start the duolingo course for "Gaelic" (since irish gaelic is just called "Irish") because IT'S BEEN IN BETA FOR LIKE 3 DAYS FINALLY.
sorry. I've moved to Scotland for Uni and fell in love with that language.
COLLAB WITH NATIVLANG AND BIBLARIDION PLEASE THANK U
Wait, so he has a problem with Lojban's 'vore' but not with Sindarin's 'i barf'?
It took me like 50 seconds to realise what Artifexian was talking about, and I speak semi-fluent Irish
Pegū̋ nen, jelgaliyathe hupī̋t jelī̋ huřmà ner piyaɡhe he nerwǎ yametopchá wahiyae kiyahe ukniya winaɡihe etoq hiyepiyamɡina wǎ jasī̋t hiyachɡà. Chī̋chï̄ umawut̴at newiyatemi pemɡiyamɡate onbin hn̈̋u hiyewamiyaralu netepar wenwunɡ leniyahe wahiyaet. Hagmiq piyagá jiyaī̋he ate onbin *Sintariyat* hupī̋ kiyeweni chumɡà. ᐲᒍ ᓃᓐ, ᔩᓪᒐᓕᔭᑦᕼᐄ ᕼᐅᐱᑦ ᔩᓕ ᕼᐅᖮᒪ ᓃᕐ ᐱᔭᒡᕼᐄ ᕼᐄ ᓃᕐᕙ ᔭᒦᑑᑉᖤ ᕙᕼᐃᔭᐄ ᑭᔭᕼᐄ ᐅᒃᓂᔭ ᕕᓇᒋᕼᐄ ᐄᑑᖅ ᕼᐃᔩᐱᔭᒻᒋᓇ ᕙ ᔭᓯᑦ ᕼᐃᔭᖦᒐ. ᖠᖠ ᐅᒪᕗᑕᑦ ᓃᕕᔭᑏᒥ ᐲᒻᒋᔭᒻᒐᑏ ᐆᓐᐱᓐ ᕼᒧ ᕼᐃᔩᕙᒥᔭᕋᓗ ᓃᑏᐸᕐ ᕖᓐᕘᖕ ᓖᓂᔭᕼᐄ ᕙᕼᐃᔭᐄᑦ. ᕼᐊᒡᒥᖅ ᐱᔭᒐ ᔨᔭᐃᕼᐄ ᐊᑏ ᐆᓐᐱᓐ ᓯᓐᑕᕆᔭᑦ ᕼᐅᐱ ᑭᔩᕖᓂ ᖢᒻᒐ.
is that an indionouse canidain langauge if so which one is it.
I thought you would talk about the mandarin criole from Singapore, Sindarin
I’ve never heard Edgar say the word “description”!
He usually borrows the word doobley-doo from the Vlogbrothers.
9:39, f represents a v sound in welsh
Creating a Conlang with DJP: Episode - 1 Getting Started
AETHEX I got really excited, checked his channel... why must you hurt me :(
You should review Hebrew, it's a conlang that is actually WAY more popular than Esperanto. It's even spoken in Israel and in millions of diasporatic communities worldwide and has derived languages, such as Yiddish. It has gender, more variety then European vocabulary, and a unique alphabet based on the Latin, Greek and Phoenician alphabet, as well as some others. You'd love it!
I'm not going to review hebrew
@@HBMmaster :(
Half of the time I was confused
"I would tell you to go check out Artifexian, but you're already subscribed to him." Why would you @ me like this.
wait...Edgar said "description", not "doobly-doo"....the world is ending!
Sindarin has singular, plural and collective plural. That's kind of important.
64.8 grams of salt :D.
Tolkien framed all his work as if it was historical research so even the dictionaries and stuff that he created were made to look like the real thing. Fans usually decide to play along. They were actually trying to make that look like a real dictionary. It does help that Tolkien developed an entire history for all his languages, so you can put etymological information in just like a real dictionary would.
64.8 mg
Wait a second… I always considered tengwar and abugida… what makes you call it an abjad? It literally always features vowels, doesn't it?
yes, but in an abugida a specific vowel is indicated by not writing a diacritic, and in an abjad not writing a vowel diacritic means that there isn't a vowel (or it's just ambiguous what the vowel is)
Tengwar *can* function as an abugida, but it's more commonly used as an abjad. There is also a fully alphabetic form, the Mode of Beleriand.
Furthermore, the vowel tehtar were not always written. A word like "calma" was routinely written with just in the tengwar, as there were no other words which could cause confusion with that word. And my understanding is that other words also got that treatment. As such, I think that describing it as a mostly-but-not-entirely-vocalized abjad is fine.
@@Sovairu only the a-tehta was sometimes not written. As "a" is by far the most common vowel, it's absence is more noteworthy than it's presence. Quenya with no vowels at all would however be unreadable. Also, leaving out vowels only works because you're still indicating the presence of a final vowel by writing the carrier. Quenya quite frequently uses vowel alone to distinguish words. For example: ringa (damp, chilly) and ranga (pace). It isn't actually that no word could be confused for calma, there is also a word "celma" meaning "channel".
Tengwar though, can be used for multiple languages. If you had a language that didn't use vowels alone to distinguish words as frequently as Quenya does: then it could certainly function as a true abjad, or as a true abugida.
@@sophiejones7727 I never once said that it was a never-vocalized abjad, did I? However, Arabic uses only vowels to distinguish large sets of words, and yet, its vowel diacritics are almost never used, except for foreign words and names, and for learning material. I am confident that knowledge of Quenya and context within a sentence would usually be enough to figure out what word is written, even with few tehtar being represented. Are you using adjectivally? Then it must be "ringa." Are you using nominally? Then it must be "ranga." So, no, it would not make Quenya "unreadable." Also, there is no real reason to use a vowel carrier in Quenya unless the word starts with a vowel, or there are multiple vowels next to each other, so vowel carriers really shouldn't be coming at the end of a Quenya word. And as for being used for "calma," Tolkien himself said that that was the natural reading for such a rendering: "In Quenya in which a was very frequent, its vowel sign was often omitted altogether. Thus for calma ‘lamp’ clm could be written. This would naturally be read as calma, since cl was not in Quenya a possible initial combination, and m never occurred finally. A possible reading was calama, but no such word existed." This quotation is from his Appendix E in the Lord of the Rings. The main point, though, is that the tengwar, even in universe, are not so vocalized as they might seem.
word final spelling variation i assume is because tolken decided to remove word final vowels and kept the spelling minus the vowel.
Daddy
DUDE THIS PREMIERES WHEN I'M SLEEPING GEEZ
Galvin Escalona Move to another country with a different time zone
Or don't sleep
you could make it premiere later.
Galvin Escalona pull an all-nighter like I am lmao. I drank too many Cherry Coke Zeros, realized I was awake at 3 am, and then said fuck it, we’re staying up for this
WAKE UP, this is too important for sleep.
How do I get my own language to be shown in a video? :p
make a video about your language. direct action
i love this series! was wondering if you'd ever take a look at the ancient language from eragon/the inheritance cycle? apparently it's also based on celtic languages and i thought it was really cool when i read the series 👀
Old Norse in part, plus whatever words Christopher Paolini thought sounded cool. It's not a great language, but it is important to me personally on account of being the language that made me decide to research and begin constructing my own languages.
Not much in the way of Celtic influence actually. The chief influence is Germanic, probably from Old English.
i've heard from one of my friends that the ancient language is just a relex (new words on english grammar) but that could be wrong
@@that_orange_hat Yeah, it mostly is from what I remember. I think the Dwarvish was more original. At the very least, it sounded less English-y to me.
The Tengwar (elvish script) at 0:06 don't seem to spell but rather something like (?). Can somebody clarify what that means? Is it an alternative name for the language?