I believe ZZZ is a game meant for team building. The game (in my opinion) isn't hard. The challenging stages were easy as long as you understood what different abilities or resonia do and how to use them. For my Ninevah runs, I ran Ellen, Anby, and Rina. I also went for as much defensive and shield resonia as possible. This made Ninevah really easy knowing that you could play really defensively in Ninevah. Where as shiyu defense which is a Dps check and trying to have the player squeeze as much damage as possible out of what the player has available to them. ZZZ (in my opinion) is meant to be a strategy, team building game where you see what has to be done, look into what the requirements are, then finding out the most effective way to meet those requirements using what you have.
Characters in Genshin are designed purely for combat. Some skills for exploration is a very small addition that SOME characters have. Genshin is a combat game, just a failed and ruined one. Don't let others gaslight you that everything is fine cause it's a 'casual' game. No, it's not at all designed to be super casual, like combat system has pretty complex mechanics, not mentioning that you have to log in every day to use resin, even HSR has a better system. Genshin is not a casual / exploration / story game. It's a ruined game. Get it right.
@@MarionFR wdym its not designed to be casual? even wuwa, a "combat orientated game", is designed for casual players with only the holograms being hard while the rest of the game has no challenge either so casuals can enjoy the majority of content. gacha games are supposed to be for casuals lol your daily routine in genshin, zzz, hsr and wuwa are literally just "login, do missions/farming, logout", these games were never meant to be for hardcore gamers.
"Is ZZZ hard" is one of those questions that will be needlessly debated because the answer is "both." Hoyo will keep mainline content easy and add side content like Pure Fiction and Gold/Gears to give you something to do with your souped-up agents. Personally I'm interested in seeing them add a mode for the defense characters that shakes things up a bit.
I think Nineveh was supposed to be the mode for defense characters, Ben's ability to generate on demand shields adds a ton of fuel for the longer slogs. The main problem is the shield and dodge resonia are overtuned to the point where this fuel is not needed.
If anyone ever asks you "Is this game hard?" for any game ever, the only correct answer will always be "Not for me." This will inflame their creative spirit.
This take is considered and makes a good deal of sense. If you don't enjoy fighting, or fighting challenging opponents, you might feel put off by this game. I enjoy the hard shit, so I'm into it.
Currently ZZZ is very easy, but the withering garden is a suprise. Sure, wuwas holograms are better, but this is like the gold and gears of star rail, and I dislike star rail but loved gold and gears.
Zenless zone zero got harder over time. For me. The ballerinas hit me in the face with their wacky attack patterns and on my first try, knocked one of my members and got the others kinda low. This is on the “hard mode” you can toggle. I can not wait for harder and harder content to be released!
before Zenless my background of games were Genshin, Dead cells and Risk of Rain 2. Aside from genshin, the other two are challenging rouge-likes were you made your build with the items you come across (and character you choose in the case of ror2) and go as far as you can fighting the most absurd swarm of enemies you fight while being in constant risk of being bursted in a fraction of a second and lost that run you got farther than before. And I love those games. I won intensity 9/11 a few days ago at max corruption against Nineveh at low hp AND FREAKING WON. I like when an game is challenging but genshin's "challenge" is either too hard or too easy (or straight up says "if you don't have X character(s) you're screwed this rotation" recently) and Dead cells difficult is more skill based than luck based, while Risk of rain 2 is about half skill half luck (with more emphasis on decision making if you think about the whole picture of the run). Zenless"s difficulty I would say goes about 2/3 being skill and 1/3 being luck, and I say that even tho I have a M1 Ellen and a M2 Grace, the game is hard but still fun! So I think the difficulty is on a good spot (bc you at least don't take permanent dmg until you reach the next area on hollow zero)
Nah man, you're not alone. I'm still hanging around in Genshin and it's still all DPS checking/no survival, in fact nowadays HP isn't just for DMG scalling it's for HP Fluctuation (healing and self-damage) so while healers have become a bit more meta it's for healing self-damage not damage from enemies. As for the difficulty in ZZZ, I'm in the same boat as you (Soulsbornes, Nioh, etc) so as long as there's no time limit or goal, I can clear just about anything with half-built characters. Only thing I disagree is that I hate make characters "as best as they can be" if it means hyperspecialization, I like making builds as general-purpose as they can be for flexibility and not having to go through the hassle of re-building the ever-expanding roster. ZZZ acomplished quite a feat that Genshin hasn't managed since 1.6: get me to spend money. (I'm new to Star Rail so jury is still out on that one) While I expect 1.1 and 1.2 won't have nearly as much content to repeat the feat, I'm quite confident the next big patch might do it.
I don't get the hard on for constantly wanting difficult content, like if you want to play on hard difficulty just don't level up your units or equipments. Or don't equip any disk drives or w-engines. I'm a pretty busy person, so I play the game (on mobile) casually whenever I have a little bit of free time I hop on, do my dailies and farm some materials then I'm done for the day. I usually save story related stuff for the weekends because those are the only days I have time. One of the reasons I enjoy MiHoyo's games a lot is that they don't hard lock main story and quest with ridiculous difficulty. I don't see anything wrong with adding a difficult mode for hardcore players, but it should not be forced on casual players. When I play games I'm here to relax and have fun, I'm not trying to work my ass off to beat the boss or clear a mission. My life is already a challenge, I don't want my games to be one as well.
Well, the "just don't level up your units" response kind of misses the point of what people meant when they said ZZZ is easy. It's not that people are complaining that the DPS-check is easy, or that the build-check is easy. It's that some people find the combat easy. Before the game released, the combat was definitely hyped--it's how I found out about the game in the first place. And it's...alright? I guess? I mean, I wasn't expecting DMC4. But even with the unlisted moves or the optimal rotations or whatever gacha players call it, this combat isn't really what it was hyped up to be. Especially since you have to play for 50 hours before enemies even start fighting back in the game's HARD MODE. I mean, surely we can all agree that that's a justified disappointment? In what other action game is it considered good for the game to only have action in the end game?
I like video games but am not that great with technical skills. I mostly play turn based strategy. I'm F2P and I think it's decently challenging! I have awful timing for counters so it's exciting when I get them consistently hahaha
i wish the gaming community wasn't so harsh and toxic when it came to this shit. why can't we all just discuss these kinds of topics with civility? why does it always have to devolve into an argument?
@@DruskieGames oh, no i wasnt referring to the video, just the discourse surrounding this topic, more specifically the wuwa fanbase just needlessly attacking the game for no reason
@@plvto1 Your being 100% biased is no one alowed to talk about any other games, When he asked "is ZZZ hard" This is literal invitation to allow for such discussion, what else should we compare the difficulty too, genshin?
The funny thing is... All those people crying that game is a button mashing simulator are just Wuwa elitists, who like pretending that their game is the best combat based game ever created, and that they are special that they can play it cause it`s SO DIFFICULT. And they started shitting on Zenless even before its release. And they watch all the Zenless content just to say that Zenless is easy and Wuwa is better. They don`t even play Zenless, but they continue saying that it`s casual and so on. And when you propose them to make a bet, to make them prove their point, like "Yeah, go on, beat the game with only 1 button as you claim is possible, I will actually pay you" they are suddenly have their leptop on repair or don`t have enough time or just "don`t have need to prove anything". I think they should visit a therapist, idk. P.S. As DS fan myself, whith Sekiro being my favourite game ever, I find ZZZ pretty fun. My first Hollow Zero try resulted in lots of sympthoms, so I had to fight final boss with every character 1 hp. Without even knowing this boss mechanics at that moment. It take me some time, but holy fuck, it was the best time I had with an action game IN A LOOOONG TIME.
I do think that people are being unfairly cruel towards zenless as well! I believe that if more people would actually try it out, I'm sure that they would soon realize the depth of the combat! Also hello fellow souls gremlin!
Im more wuwa fan than hoyo fan and I try to call those guys out. Not because of virtue, just what I feel like doing to make a better environment. Sorry if you had a bad experience.
i dont understand those wuwa stans bc i play both wuwa and zzz and the only challenging content in wuwa are the holograms (and the last tower levels).. open world enemies/bosses and story enemies are no challenge either so its not like wuwa has tons of difficult content. the majority of it is still aimed at casual players bc in the end wuwa is a gacha and kuro wants money so they need to make the game playable for casuals too.
@@Gheniel_ i enjoy wuwa as a game but i am so tired of the community.. everytime i try to watch a wuwa video to see stuff about wuwa the content creator or all the wuwa fans in the comment section shit on a hoyo game, its exhausting. its nice to see some wuwa fans like you who arent as hateful so thank you!!
@@Gheniel_ you don't have to be sorry my dude, you are not responsible for the entire community. But thank you for being reasonable and kind, i really expected that someone would throw a bunch of hate on me tbh
Good video! I don’t play much in the way of action games. The closest I’ll regularly play is Resident Evil, Kingdom Hearts, and Tales. With KH, I actually used to play the games on Critical because I loved the challenge and I wanted to be good at one of my favorite series. But as I got older, I stopped wanting that challenge because life was hard enough and I just wanted to relax. Occasionally I’ll do harder games. I’ve beaten Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3, but I have to be in just the right mood for that. I find Bayonetta *very* difficult, and I’ve never tried DMC. Lately though, I’ve found myself wanting a bit more action, just not TOO much. I played Eternights and thought it was fairly difficult, especially some of the stuff at the end of the game. I’ve played some of FF16 and liked it, but got distracted and haven’t come back to it. I started ZZZ pretty soon after launch and I’m absolutely loving it so far. I’ve been focusing a lot on leveling and gearing up my favorite characters (Lucy, Soukaku, and Anby) and don’t really pay much attention to meta. I’m also trying to do as much as I can between each main story quest, so I’m still only halfway through chapter 3 lol. I’m IK lvl 43. I LOVE Hollow Zero. I have trouble pulling myself away from that and getting back to the rest of the game lol. I’ve cleared the first 6 stages of Shiyu Defense with S, but only got B on 7. I’m gonna give that another shot soon. So far, I’d say most of the game is “comfortably easy”, but again, there’s a reason I only cleared Shiyu 7 with a B! There’s definitely some content in the game I personally find very challenging. I’ve also been enjoying Shiyu Defense, and the stress that I get from the highest levels of Hollow Zero that I currently have access to. Genuinely looking forward to getting to Nineveh, and I’m eager to learn the game and my characters better! Having a great time. Edit: I forgot I also wanted to say: the TV sections are awesome and I love them.
5:30 Is that a Nekomata move that lets you dodge late? I hated that fight so much until I learned when to dodge those things, but you see the flash and don't seem to dodge until later - which when I was learning that fight, was slow and I'd eat a load of dmage from doing that. For the twins, if you dodge on a flash you avoid everything, from what I remember. and then elsewhere in the game you have bosses that effectivly punish that, they flash early and hit late. That inconsistency that feels like it's just that extra bit of learning frcition just really annoys me because I'm slow to build those reactions and change gears, the game doesn't feel like there's a right way to react to every situation - for a given team. And I think that's part of my problem that I'm realising as you're talking about this stuff. I'd imagine players like yourself want each fight to need a different play style to beat (optimally), not having that just leaves me frustrated. I still hate the twins fight tbh, and it was certainly one of the fights that left me feeling like this game isn't for me. I've only complained to friends until this reply, but as you talk about the type of player and who the game is for, it's starting to feel like I'm certainly not the target audience, but I'm sticking around to see if just the story would be fine without making me try to push the harder content, as I'm old and bad at it. I've unlocked Nineveh but I've not attempted the fight yet, but that's frustration at TVs + frustration of buff rng generally always sucking for me, and then learning a fight I don't know and will die to... yeah I need to be in the mood for that.
Hi! Thanks for the comment! All characters on their follow up attack have I-frames. (Invincibility frames) so that’s why I wasn’t taking damage! Also yes I understand where you’re coming from! I definitely enjoy learning the timing on all the bosses and usually dodge last second due to my muscle memory from souls and monster hunter haha. As of 1.1 as well the new boss has some very tricky moves and requires effort to beat at high levels. I think for sure this game will continue to be this way but if you play just for story that’s totally fine! Endgame is absolutely not for everyone.
The game is easy. Shiye defense i can't name "difficult" because it is just dps check, skill just makes it a little bit quicker to beat. What is really hard is Withering Garden 11 Ether activity. Especially now with not maxed characters. Especially on mobile device. Especially FTP. But I have already beat it so i can't call it "Really difficult content", right?... I am already waiting for harder "endgame".
I do agree that shiyu is quite the dps check. But I do feel like the skill difference between being able to complete it with a B and an S should be noted because not everyone will be able to do that, and I would consider it difficult. Also, totally agree that Int 11 at the moment is by far the hardest content we’ve got. And I hope just like you that we will get some better activities to really test our skills.
Agreed, when people say they beat it, they usually mean they got a B on it. The moment the timer gets past 7 minutes in the first round I just restart the stage because I'm aiming for S not B.
while i see where you are coming from, i don't see it happening, simply because gatchas want to reach a sizable audience and the hardcore audience is..well not that. i do agree that ZZZ will be HoYo's hardest game, but only in comparison. for a game like Dark Souls it does not matter if players stick with it, if they play through the game or quit after the title screen, as they only need to sell once, but ZZZ needs to keep selling, it needs to keep players and make them spend in order to work out.
@@Darcmagikan1 these are very good points. And I actually agree with a ton of them. With that being said though, I do feel like a lot of the later combat in this game will likely be a turn off for players who aren’t necessarily into learning patterns or strategies for encounters. I know a few people who play this game much more casually than I do and for them not having any more “easy” content for them turned them off of the game. They had no interest in building teams or even learning the bosses. They really only had fun smashing through the early game. This is just another reason that I believe that this game will remain a hardcore experience, and when people finally start reaching interknot 40 it is going to start filtering out the casual player base. Of course though with this being said, this is truly just speculation on my part (and probably just hopeful thinking) thank you for adding to my discussion and I hope the video was a good watch!
i pretty much share the same sentiment that this game was meant for people looking for challenge but I still find it apalling that they rank how well you did by how fast you cleared missions. Doesn't matter how well you played to beat enemies several levels higher than you in Shiyu defense, if you dont beat them all in 5min you suck. It still feels like genshin's spiral abyss DPS check rather than any other action game where you are rewarded for learning the game's mechanics and spending even just a handful of hours practicing. And some boss have moves where you cant even attack them, youre just forced to dodge like the ballet twin spinning at the center of the stage or ninevah blasting the stage with DOT and you need to take cover. After like the 3rd time you fight that boss its not even hard anymore its just a time waster. Reminds of plesioth from MHFU chilling in the water for several minutes until it decides to bless you by coming out and finally fighting you, such a pain in the ass to deal with.
In my opinion, the fight is hard or not, it depends on how fair is enemy moveset. There is hard but tolerable. But there is also bullsh1t. ZZZ is normal.
A game is made for the player, it is not made for every living person in this world, thats why genres exist, every game is not made for every gamer, if a game is made for everyone it is truly made for no one. They as devs have to decide who they are making this game for either the ultra casuals or the hardcore players they cant have both if they try to stretch for both they will get non cause it doesnt provide enough of both to be enjoyable to any of the 2 groups. Right now i have managed to clear nivemeh at intensity 11 at lvl 48, it took me an hr to clear the node not including the number of time i had to retry, every single enemy in the hollow was a MASSIVE damage sponge nothing else it took me 4+ min to kill a single dullahan and his moveset is not that deep. All the end game is right now either dps checks or bloated hp pool enemies. The enemy movesets arent varied enough to be enjoyable. The parry window is more than 3s on some atks, and some of the enemies have very minimally telegraphed atks with lil to no animations which make those moves super annoying when u have 1hp due to hollow events or corruptions. Right now zzz combat is very good for the units but the enemies are utter ass in terms of movesets, it takes 2 to tango u need good combat for characters AND great enemies to make an enjoyable action game, right now most enemies are piss easy and akin to punching a sandbag doesnt really scream action to me when i beat a test dummy, or in "hard" stage all the hard part amounts to is massively bloated hp pools and dmg, this is not even a talking about difficulty but about fun, this 'challenge' content is not fun. The 1 boss that i did find different enough and enjoyable was the marionettes but not by a lot either. In conclusion zzz devs need to pick a side, whether they want heart pumping action with engaging fights or spamming atks on a test dummy till it dies, they will not get both of the two different audiences for those styles as they are like oil and water they do not mix. If they dont make the fights more engaging i dont see myself playing the game long term. I did see their msg in the livestream and what their intentions are with the game but it hoyo we are talking here i will not give them the benefit of the doubt. I hope the gameplay improves but i am not optimistic about it giving hoyos trac record. Actions will speak louder to me than words in zzzs case.
The influence of fighting games, especially Street Fighter is very much apparent with ZZZ's gameplay design. Especially considering the director of ZZZ has gone on record to be a massive Street Fighter fan. Easy and simple surface level gameplay that anyone can pick up, but tons of optimizations and knowledge checks at higher levels of gameplay. Every enemy attack has a clear and concise answer on how to deal with it. The challenge comes from the mental stack of juggling the different attacks and choosing your response to them. It's no coincidence that "ranged" characters like Billy and Zhu Yuan do more damage the closer they are to enemies. Or how a lot of characters get bufs from doing dodge counters. The game wants you to get in there qnd get overwhelmed.
I'm pretty sure that even with a maxed out Ellen, it would still be hard for me. It would be a fair amount easier, but it would still be hard, unless max Ellen can just button mash her way through. I'm at least partially disabled tho, so it's super rough with what I have. Heh. Genshin is hard for me (and it's way easier most of the time), and I could not play a souls game worth a crap if my life literally depended on it. So that's me. I'm content with it though. But yeah, I can play turn based games much better.
the biggest issue i personally see is actually more so on the characters them self. they feel extreamly 1 trick ponys from such a upfront scale that there just generally not a healthy alternative way to use them. the amount of characters for one that have a worth wild use for their normal specials is vary far and few between, so you generally just keep to 1 combo not because there isnt a ability to do it in situations, but because there isnt another combo. hell like half the characters is just mash 1 button for said "combo". the amount of weighing actions on situational awareness on what to do that most action games in this genre is just lacking.
Im also at IK50 and after playing 3 Hoyoverse games, I can come to the conclusion that the only difficulty they know of is to either make the boss an HP sponge, or add some debuffs to your character. Shiyu Defense is just generic mobs with massive health pool plus a buff that is advantageous to the current limited banner. Nineveh is such a dumb boss fight and it feels like she only have 3 or 4 move sets, the only difficulty they can think of is to add 11 modifiers for you and the enemies. The only interesting boss in all of ZZZ right now is the Balet Twins.
I think you have a misconception of spending will make this game easier. If the player does not have good skills, at the end game, a few hits from the Boss well kill the Agents , even at Level 60 HP will be around 11,000 and will sustain a few hits. They will die whether or not they are M6W5 or not ,they will die anyway. I do not think they will be a whale who does not have skills and want to spend a lot of money to play this game. By the way, I have played HI3 at Nirvana level for a few years in SEA sever, so I know how competitive the gacha game can be.
Hey, while you are definitely correct about the game being skill based and late game content will be rough even if you spend, the game is definitely designed for there to be an incentive for you to spend. And the biggest incentive is passive buffs from duplicates, and even shiyu defense being tied to specific elements for banner characters. This is why during the video I didn’t discuss it too much because it is a very small minority of the player base.
Tbh i play until rank 35 iirc And I got bored so fast, tv system was shit (just in exploration was kinda nice cuz was like minigames, but when is used for progression in story is ass) and was easy (and i was playing on phone) At least for me, if u need to reach endgame to have a challenge, is not worth, way too much boring things to get there (and shark girl skip me, that was the last kick on my balls to leave the game XD)
Soulsborne games have ruined action game literacy. They took something that used to be heavily execution based, simplified the moveset of your character - then added the complexity and execution barrier that used to belong to the player, to the bosses... Dark Souls games are RPG's with lite action elements. You can stat roll most bosses if you grind and min-max. It drives me utterly insane how people lift those games up as bastions of peak action combat, when it mostly amounts to dodge, dodge, poke gameplay - of if you have a magic build "cast big death spell" I'm not going to trash on your favorite series, I liked Dark Souls a lot. I really did. I thought it was a really fun dark fantasy "survival horror" RPG. It has resource management, safe rooms, fights to avoid to conserve resources for bosses that will chunk away at you like you are a piece of cheese. Everyone will disagree with this hot take because gaming as a whole has collectively chosen to embrace the weird idea that Souls games are somehow the cream of the crop. Zenless is build focused, but I see nobody talk about utilizing i-frames, hyper armor, or complex tech in character movesets etc. to take on fights at higher levels. I rarely see people play this game like an action game, and instead just focus on "min-maxing" all their characters and builds to make a 1, 2, 3 repetitive button combo while dodging enemies. I agree with you for the most part though, I'll say this - everyone has something they like about games... and Zenless has a few things to provide to those people. I think the challenge in Zenless is similar to games like MGR, and DMC - or yes even Guilty Gear, or MvC. It's about understanding the mechanical complexities inherent to a characters moveset and identity. About executing their moves and role properly. Meter management... abusing switch tech etc. etc. No this game is not as deep as DMC... not even CLOSE, but it is deeper than other Gacha's when it comes to combat. It IS similar to those games in that you can mash your way through almost all content in the game, but you'll look bad doing it, eat a lot of damage... and just go "I beat it" I say... now do that without taking a hit, and do it fast. I beat Nineveh 11/11 first try, so uh... yeah
This is a great comment! One thing I would like to add is I absolutely agree with you that I focused on the numbers too much when I should have went more in depth on what differentiates a good player with an amazing player. Also no offense taken! Everyone is more than welcome to have their own opinion and I’m happy you shared your thoughts.
Comparing this to actual action games like Bayonetta nier ninja gaiden and even DMC is a disservice to those games, this was designed with mobile in mind first it's not nearly as complex as your making it out to be, that said it is still leagues above other gacha games in style and execution.
@plvto1 Bloodborne is simply "survive and poke at a thing until it dies" Since it features some of the highest health bars in the franchise, the appeal is the dodging aspect
I hope youre right, i just worry a bit when 90% of the early game content seemed pretty poorly designed. They did say theyre taking feedback about tv mode into account though, so im hoping for the best. Also nice job on the scripted video, i wouldnt have known you were new to it.
@@CD5300- the only thing I can think of is the way the combat mechanics are introduced, it kinda drags a bit imo. But poorly designed? Dunno about that.
"Game is hard for people that doesn't play games or genshin players." Bar is literally in hell. "Game is hard without w-engine, drive disc or levels" so even genshin too. This is not an indicator. Best c6r5 character can't beat even slime if they are level 1 in max world difficulty. "Game will be hard on future, trust." if it would be, why we didn't see proper end-game boss even in 1.1? There are 4 "possibly hard boss" in ZZZ. But if you looked at why they are hard, they are just annoying. It's not because you need to learn patern or something. I wish you didn't bring up Dark Souls at all. This game is literally Genshin difficulty if you compare it with even easiest Dark Souls game. People are beating end-game content without seeing screen. I know you wanna be ZZZ CC but I wished you didn't make this video at start...
![[1.0 ZZZ] The Secrets of Hollow Zero - A Zenless Zone Zero Theory](/img/1.gif)
To whoever made the chapters thank you! I didn’t even know you could do that. Much love for all the support on this video ❤
I believe ZZZ is a game meant for team building. The game (in my opinion) isn't hard. The challenging stages were easy as long as you understood what different abilities or resonia do and how to use them. For my Ninevah runs, I ran Ellen, Anby, and Rina. I also went for as much defensive and shield resonia as possible. This made Ninevah really easy knowing that you could play really defensively in Ninevah. Where as shiyu defense which is a Dps check and trying to have the player squeeze as much damage as possible out of what the player has available to them. ZZZ (in my opinion) is meant to be a strategy, team building game where you see what has to be done, look into what the requirements are, then finding out the most effective way to meet those requirements using what you have.
Genshin was made for people who enjoy exploration, Zenless was made for people who enjoy action.
Both were made for people who enjoy playing attractive anime characters
Characters in Genshin are designed purely for combat. Some skills for exploration is a very small addition that SOME characters have. Genshin is a combat game, just a failed and ruined one. Don't let others gaslight you that everything is fine cause it's a 'casual' game. No, it's not at all designed to be super casual, like combat system has pretty complex mechanics, not mentioning that you have to log in every day to use resin, even HSR has a better system. Genshin is not a casual / exploration / story game. It's a ruined game. Get it right.
@@MarionFR wdym its not designed to be casual? even wuwa, a "combat orientated game", is designed for casual players with only the holograms being hard while the rest of the game has no challenge either so casuals can enjoy the majority of content. gacha games are supposed to be for casuals lol your daily routine in genshin, zzz, hsr and wuwa are literally just "login, do missions/farming, logout", these games were never meant to be for hardcore gamers.
@@niconii3663 i agree with you.
Game is fun, and is harder in places. But most of i appreciate that the game dailies and energy spending is easy and quick.
I really appreciate that too
The future bosses they will put in the game will be so cool soon we will have super bosses in this game
I totally agree. I can’t wait to spend another week frame perfecting dodges so I can power through the hardest content!
"Is ZZZ hard" is one of those questions that will be needlessly debated because the answer is "both." Hoyo will keep mainline content easy and add side content like Pure Fiction and Gold/Gears to give you something to do with your souped-up agents.
Personally I'm interested in seeing them add a mode for the defense characters that shakes things up a bit.
I think Nineveh was supposed to be the mode for defense characters, Ben's ability to generate on demand shields adds a ton of fuel for the longer slogs. The main problem is the shield and dodge resonia are overtuned to the point where this fuel is not needed.
If anyone ever asks you "Is this game hard?" for any game ever, the only correct answer will always be "Not for me."
This will inflame their creative spirit.
Or you could say “git gud”
This take is considered and makes a good deal of sense. If you don't enjoy fighting, or fighting challenging opponents, you might feel put off by this game. I enjoy the hard shit, so I'm into it.
what they should do is
LESS TV, MORE BOSS FIGHT
Currently ZZZ is very easy, but the withering garden is a suprise. Sure, wuwas holograms are better, but this is like the gold and gears of star rail, and I dislike star rail but loved gold and gears.
Zenless zone zero got harder over time.
For me.
The ballerinas hit me in the face with their wacky attack patterns and on my first try, knocked one of my members and got the others kinda low.
This is on the “hard mode” you can toggle.
I can not wait for harder and harder content to be released!
the real question is
does it need to be?
It doesn’t!
Zhu Yuan pull trolled me with that S, only to get a Rina Dupe💀
All that saved Poly and tapes wasted as an F2P hits hard as usual lol
at least you have a guaranteed for someone else!
The exact thing happened to me😭
its unlucky but i would not call it wasted since your next 5* is guaranteed now!
before Zenless my background of games were Genshin, Dead cells and Risk of Rain 2. Aside from genshin, the other two are challenging rouge-likes were you made your build with the items you come across (and character you choose in the case of ror2) and go as far as you can fighting the most absurd swarm of enemies you fight while being in constant risk of being bursted in a fraction of a second and lost that run you got farther than before.
And I love those games. I won intensity 9/11 a few days ago at max corruption against Nineveh at low hp AND FREAKING WON. I like when an game is challenging but genshin's "challenge" is either too hard or too easy (or straight up says "if you don't have X character(s) you're screwed this rotation" recently) and Dead cells difficult is more skill based than luck based, while Risk of rain 2 is about half skill half luck (with more emphasis on decision making if you think about the whole picture of the run). Zenless"s difficulty I would say goes about 2/3 being skill and 1/3 being luck, and I say that even tho I have a M1 Ellen and a M2 Grace, the game is hard but still fun! So I think the difficulty is on a good spot (bc you at least don't take permanent dmg until you reach the next area on hollow zero)
Nah man, you're not alone. I'm still hanging around in Genshin and it's still all DPS checking/no survival, in fact nowadays HP isn't just for DMG scalling it's for HP Fluctuation (healing and self-damage) so while healers have become a bit more meta it's for healing self-damage not damage from enemies.
As for the difficulty in ZZZ, I'm in the same boat as you (Soulsbornes, Nioh, etc) so as long as there's no time limit or goal, I can clear just about anything with half-built characters. Only thing I disagree is that I hate make characters "as best as they can be" if it means hyperspecialization, I like making builds as general-purpose as they can be for flexibility and not having to go through the hassle of re-building the ever-expanding roster.
ZZZ acomplished quite a feat that Genshin hasn't managed since 1.6: get me to spend money. (I'm new to Star Rail so jury is still out on that one) While I expect 1.1 and 1.2 won't have nearly as much content to repeat the feat, I'm quite confident the next big patch might do it.
I don't get the hard on for constantly wanting difficult content, like if you want to play on hard difficulty just don't level up your units or equipments. Or don't equip any disk drives or w-engines.
I'm a pretty busy person, so I play the game (on mobile) casually whenever I have a little bit of free time I hop on, do my dailies and farm some materials then I'm done for the day. I usually save story related stuff for the weekends because those are the only days I have time.
One of the reasons I enjoy MiHoyo's games a lot is that they don't hard lock main story and quest with ridiculous difficulty. I don't see anything wrong with adding a difficult mode for hardcore players, but it should not be forced on casual players. When I play games I'm here to relax and have fun, I'm not trying to work my ass off to beat the boss or clear a mission. My life is already a challenge, I don't want my games to be one as well.
Very well put. I completely understand your viewpoint.
Well, the "just don't level up your units" response kind of misses the point of what people meant when they said ZZZ is easy. It's not that people are complaining that the DPS-check is easy, or that the build-check is easy. It's that some people find the combat easy.
Before the game released, the combat was definitely hyped--it's how I found out about the game in the first place. And it's...alright? I guess? I mean, I wasn't expecting DMC4. But even with the unlisted moves or the optimal rotations or whatever gacha players call it, this combat isn't really what it was hyped up to be.
Especially since you have to play for 50 hours before enemies even start fighting back in the game's HARD MODE. I mean, surely we can all agree that that's a justified disappointment? In what other action game is it considered good for the game to only have action in the end game?
That's called artificial difficulty. If the game is not meant to be hard don't force it, it won't be engaging nor fun.
I like video games but am not that great with technical skills. I mostly play turn based strategy. I'm F2P and I think it's decently challenging! I have awful timing for counters so it's exciting when I get them consistently hahaha
Glad you’re having fun with the game! I truly believe zenless is a game for everyone. All skill levels can enjoy it!
i wish the gaming community wasn't so harsh and toxic when it came to this shit. why can't we all just discuss these kinds of topics with civility? why does it always have to devolve into an argument?
Well luckily my video isn’t an argument but rather a discussion
@@DruskieGames oh, no i wasnt referring to the video, just the discourse surrounding this topic, more specifically the wuwa fanbase just needlessly attacking the game for no reason
@@plvto1 Your being 100% biased is no one alowed to talk about any other games, When he asked "is ZZZ hard" This is literal invitation to allow for such discussion, what else should we compare the difficulty too, genshin?
The funny thing is... All those people crying that game is a button mashing simulator are just Wuwa elitists, who like pretending that their game is the best combat based game ever created, and that they are special that they can play it cause it`s SO DIFFICULT. And they started shitting on Zenless even before its release. And they watch all the Zenless content just to say that Zenless is easy and Wuwa is better. They don`t even play Zenless, but they continue saying that it`s casual and so on. And when you propose them to make a bet, to make them prove their point, like "Yeah, go on, beat the game with only 1 button as you claim is possible, I will actually pay you" they are suddenly have their leptop on repair or don`t have enough time or just "don`t have need to prove anything". I think they should visit a therapist, idk.
P.S. As DS fan myself, whith Sekiro being my favourite game ever, I find ZZZ pretty fun. My first Hollow Zero try resulted in lots of sympthoms, so I had to fight final boss with every character 1 hp. Without even knowing this boss mechanics at that moment. It take me some time, but holy fuck, it was the best time I had with an action game IN A LOOOONG TIME.
I do think that people are being unfairly cruel towards zenless as well! I believe that if more people would actually try it out, I'm sure that they would soon realize the depth of the combat!
Also hello fellow souls gremlin!
Im more wuwa fan than hoyo fan and I try to call those guys out. Not because of virtue, just what I feel like doing to make a better environment.
Sorry if you had a bad experience.
i dont understand those wuwa stans bc i play both wuwa and zzz and the only challenging content in wuwa are the holograms (and the last tower levels).. open world enemies/bosses and story enemies are no challenge either so its not like wuwa has tons of difficult content. the majority of it is still aimed at casual players bc in the end wuwa is a gacha and kuro wants money so they need to make the game playable for casuals too.
@@Gheniel_ i enjoy wuwa as a game but i am so tired of the community.. everytime i try to watch a wuwa video to see stuff about wuwa the content creator or all the wuwa fans in the comment section shit on a hoyo game, its exhausting. its nice to see some wuwa fans like you who arent as hateful so thank you!!
@@Gheniel_ you don't have to be sorry my dude, you are not responsible for the entire community. But thank you for being reasonable and kind, i really expected that someone would throw a bunch of hate on me tbh
let's gooo i forgot this channel existed lmao glad ur still doin okay and makin stuff dru
Good video! I don’t play much in the way of action games. The closest I’ll regularly play is Resident Evil, Kingdom Hearts, and Tales. With KH, I actually used to play the games on Critical because I loved the challenge and I wanted to be good at one of my favorite series. But as I got older, I stopped wanting that challenge because life was hard enough and I just wanted to relax. Occasionally I’ll do harder games. I’ve beaten Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3, but I have to be in just the right mood for that. I find Bayonetta *very* difficult, and I’ve never tried DMC. Lately though, I’ve found myself wanting a bit more action, just not TOO much. I played Eternights and thought it was fairly difficult, especially some of the stuff at the end of the game. I’ve played some of FF16 and liked it, but got distracted and haven’t come back to it.
I started ZZZ pretty soon after launch and I’m absolutely loving it so far. I’ve been focusing a lot on leveling and gearing up my favorite characters (Lucy, Soukaku, and Anby) and don’t really pay much attention to meta. I’m also trying to do as much as I can between each main story quest, so I’m still only halfway through chapter 3 lol. I’m IK lvl 43. I LOVE Hollow Zero. I have trouble pulling myself away from that and getting back to the rest of the game lol. I’ve cleared the first 6 stages of Shiyu Defense with S, but only got B on 7. I’m gonna give that another shot soon. So far, I’d say most of the game is “comfortably easy”, but again, there’s a reason I only cleared Shiyu 7 with a B! There’s definitely some content in the game I personally find very challenging. I’ve also been enjoying Shiyu Defense, and the stress that I get from the highest levels of Hollow Zero that I currently have access to. Genuinely looking forward to getting to Nineveh, and I’m eager to learn the game and my characters better! Having a great time.
Edit: I forgot I also wanted to say: the TV sections are awesome and I love them.
5:30 Is that a Nekomata move that lets you dodge late?
I hated that fight so much until I learned when to dodge those things, but you see the flash and don't seem to dodge until later - which when I was learning that fight, was slow and I'd eat a load of dmage from doing that. For the twins, if you dodge on a flash you avoid everything, from what I remember. and then elsewhere in the game you have bosses that effectivly punish that, they flash early and hit late. That inconsistency that feels like it's just that extra bit of learning frcition just really annoys me because I'm slow to build those reactions and change gears, the game doesn't feel like there's a right way to react to every situation - for a given team. And I think that's part of my problem that I'm realising as you're talking about this stuff. I'd imagine players like yourself want each fight to need a different play style to beat (optimally), not having that just leaves me frustrated.
I still hate the twins fight tbh, and it was certainly one of the fights that left me feeling like this game isn't for me. I've only complained to friends until this reply, but as you talk about the type of player and who the game is for, it's starting to feel like I'm certainly not the target audience, but I'm sticking around to see if just the story would be fine without making me try to push the harder content, as I'm old and bad at it. I've unlocked Nineveh but I've not attempted the fight yet, but that's frustration at TVs + frustration of buff rng generally always sucking for me, and then learning a fight I don't know and will die to... yeah I need to be in the mood for that.
Hi! Thanks for the comment!
All characters on their follow up attack have I-frames. (Invincibility frames) so that’s why I wasn’t taking damage!
Also yes I understand where you’re coming from! I definitely enjoy learning the timing on all the bosses and usually dodge last second due to my muscle memory from souls and monster hunter haha. As of 1.1 as well the new boss has some very tricky moves and requires effort to beat at high levels. I think for sure this game will continue to be this way but if you play just for story that’s totally fine! Endgame is absolutely not for everyone.
The game is easy. Shiye defense i can't name "difficult" because it is just dps check, skill just makes it a little bit quicker to beat. What is really hard is Withering Garden 11 Ether activity. Especially now with not maxed characters. Especially on mobile device. Especially FTP. But I have already beat it so i can't call it "Really difficult content", right?... I am already waiting for harder "endgame".
I do agree that shiyu is quite the dps check. But I do feel like the skill difference between being able to complete it with a B and an S should be noted because not everyone will be able to do that, and I would consider it difficult. Also, totally agree that Int 11 at the moment is by far the hardest content we’ve got. And I hope just like you that we will get some better activities to really test our skills.
The real end game is those snake game
Agreed, when people say they beat it, they usually mean they got a B on it.
The moment the timer gets past 7 minutes in the first round I just restart the stage because I'm aiming for S not B.
@@minhaophu3289 I'm already top 50(≈45m points. But a can't see leaderboard, so I'm not sure). So, this endgame i have already completed too😅
a sensible fellow
Thank you!
while i see where you are coming from, i don't see it happening, simply because gatchas want to reach a sizable audience and the hardcore audience is..well not that. i do agree that ZZZ will be HoYo's hardest game, but only in comparison. for a game like Dark Souls it does not matter if players stick with it, if they play through the game or quit after the title screen, as they only need to sell once, but ZZZ needs to keep selling, it needs to keep players and make them spend in order to work out.
@@Darcmagikan1 these are very good points. And I actually agree with a ton of them. With that being said though, I do feel like a lot of the later combat in this game will likely be a turn off for players who aren’t necessarily into learning patterns or strategies for encounters.
I know a few people who play this game much more casually than I do and for them not having any more “easy” content for them turned them off of the game. They had no interest in building teams or even learning the bosses. They really only had fun smashing through the early game.
This is just another reason that I believe that this game will remain a hardcore experience, and when people finally start reaching interknot 40 it is going to start filtering out the casual player base. Of course though with this being said, this is truly just speculation on my part (and probably just hopeful thinking) thank you for adding to my discussion and I hope the video was a good watch!
i pretty much share the same sentiment that this game was meant for people looking for challenge but I still find it apalling that they rank how well you did by how fast you cleared missions. Doesn't matter how well you played to beat enemies several levels higher than you in Shiyu defense, if you dont beat them all in 5min you suck. It still feels like genshin's spiral abyss DPS check rather than any other action game where you are rewarded for learning the game's mechanics and spending even just a handful of hours practicing.
And some boss have moves where you cant even attack them, youre just forced to dodge like the ballet twin spinning at the center of the stage or ninevah blasting the stage with DOT and you need to take cover. After like the 3rd time you fight that boss its not even hard anymore its just a time waster. Reminds of plesioth from MHFU chilling in the water for several minutes until it decides to bless you by coming out and finally fighting you, such a pain in the ass to deal with.
I think this video aged well with new disputed shiyu and 1.1 combat commissions
In my opinion, the fight is hard or not, it depends on how fair is enemy moveset.
There is hard but tolerable.
But there is also bullsh1t.
ZZZ is normal.
A game is made for the player, it is not made for every living person in this world, thats why genres exist, every game is not made for every gamer, if a game is made for everyone it is truly made for no one. They as devs have to decide who they are making this game for either the ultra casuals or the hardcore players they cant have both if they try to stretch for both they will get non cause it doesnt provide enough of both to be enjoyable to any of the 2 groups. Right now i have managed to clear nivemeh at intensity 11 at lvl 48, it took me an hr to clear the node not including the number of time i had to retry, every single enemy in the hollow was a MASSIVE damage sponge nothing else it took me 4+ min to kill a single dullahan and his moveset is not that deep. All the end game is right now either dps checks or bloated hp pool enemies. The enemy movesets arent varied enough to be enjoyable. The parry window is more than 3s on some atks, and some of the enemies have very minimally telegraphed atks with lil to no animations which make those moves super annoying when u have 1hp due to hollow events or corruptions.
Right now zzz combat is very good for the units but the enemies are utter ass in terms of movesets, it takes 2 to tango u need good combat for characters AND great enemies to make an enjoyable action game, right now most enemies are piss easy and akin to punching a sandbag doesnt really scream action to me when i beat a test dummy, or in "hard" stage all the hard part amounts to is massively bloated hp pools and dmg, this is not even a talking about difficulty but about fun, this 'challenge' content is not fun. The 1 boss that i did find different enough and enjoyable was the marionettes but not by a lot either.
In conclusion zzz devs need to pick a side, whether they want heart pumping action with engaging fights or spamming atks on a test dummy till it dies, they will not get both of the two different audiences for those styles as they are like oil and water they do not mix.
If they dont make the fights more engaging i dont see myself playing the game long term. I did see their msg in the livestream and what their intentions are with the game but it hoyo we are talking here i will not give them the benefit of the doubt. I hope the gameplay improves but i am not optimistic about it giving hoyos trac record. Actions will speak louder to me than words in zzzs case.
The influence of fighting games, especially Street Fighter is very much apparent with ZZZ's gameplay design. Especially considering the director of ZZZ has gone on record to be a massive Street Fighter fan. Easy and simple surface level gameplay that anyone can pick up, but tons of optimizations and knowledge checks at higher levels of gameplay.
Every enemy attack has a clear and concise answer on how to deal with it. The challenge comes from the mental stack of juggling the different attacks and choosing your response to them. It's no coincidence that "ranged" characters like Billy and Zhu Yuan do more damage the closer they are to enemies. Or how a lot of characters get bufs from doing dodge counters. The game wants you to get in there qnd get overwhelmed.
great take
I'm pretty sure that even with a maxed out Ellen, it would still be hard for me. It would be a fair amount easier, but it would still be hard, unless max Ellen can just button mash her way through. I'm at least partially disabled tho, so it's super rough with what I have. Heh. Genshin is hard for me (and it's way easier most of the time), and I could not play a souls game worth a crap if my life literally depended on it. So that's me. I'm content with it though. But yeah, I can play turn based games much better.
the biggest issue i personally see is actually more so on the characters them self. they feel extreamly 1 trick ponys from such a upfront scale that there just generally not a healthy alternative way to use them. the amount of characters for one that have a worth wild use for their normal specials is vary far and few between, so you generally just keep to 1 combo not because there isnt a ability to do it in situations, but because there isnt another combo. hell like half the characters is just mash 1 button for said "combo". the amount of weighing actions on situational awareness on what to do that most action games in this genre is just lacking.
its hoyo though they wont make it hard, maybe hard in the sense of powercreep like hsr or honkai impact, but not actually hard
i just want a support character that heals man, and not have to rely on a terrible option for a bangboo.
Im also at IK50 and after playing 3 Hoyoverse games, I can come to the conclusion that the only difficulty they know of is to either make the boss an HP sponge, or add some debuffs to your character. Shiyu Defense is just generic mobs with massive health pool plus a buff that is advantageous to the current limited banner. Nineveh is such a dumb boss fight and it feels like she only have 3 or 4 move sets, the only difficulty they can think of is to add 11 modifiers for you and the enemies. The only interesting boss in all of ZZZ right now is the Balet Twins.
I think you have a misconception of spending will make this game easier. If the player does not have good skills, at the end game, a few hits from the Boss well kill the Agents , even at Level 60 HP will be around 11,000 and will sustain a few hits. They will die whether or not they are M6W5 or not ,they will die anyway. I do not think they will be a whale who does not have skills and want to spend a lot of money to play this game. By the way, I have played HI3 at Nirvana level for a few years in SEA sever, so I know how competitive the gacha game can be.
Hey, while you are definitely correct about the game being skill based and late game content will be rough even if you spend, the game is definitely designed for there to be an incentive for you to spend. And the biggest incentive is passive buffs from duplicates, and even shiyu defense being tied to specific elements for banner characters.
This is why during the video I didn’t discuss it too much because it is a very small minority of the player base.
HI3rd Nirvana abyss is like another world from Red Lotus, i accidentally went there a few times.
my future advice is for you to quit yur yappin (we love you
Tbh i play until rank 35 iirc
And I got bored so fast, tv system was shit (just in exploration was kinda nice cuz was like minigames, but when is used for progression in story is ass) and was easy (and i was playing on phone)
At least for me, if u need to reach endgame to have a challenge, is not worth, way too much boring things to get there (and shark girl skip me, that was the last kick on my balls to leave the game XD)
Soulsborne games have ruined action game literacy.
They took something that used to be heavily execution based, simplified the moveset of your character - then added the complexity and execution barrier that used to belong to the player, to the bosses... Dark Souls games are RPG's with lite action elements. You can stat roll most bosses if you grind and min-max. It drives me utterly insane how people lift those games up as bastions of peak action combat, when it mostly amounts to dodge, dodge, poke gameplay - of if you have a magic build "cast big death spell"
I'm not going to trash on your favorite series, I liked Dark Souls a lot. I really did. I thought it was a really fun dark fantasy "survival horror" RPG. It has resource management, safe rooms, fights to avoid to conserve resources for bosses that will chunk away at you like you are a piece of cheese.
Everyone will disagree with this hot take because gaming as a whole has collectively chosen to embrace the weird idea that Souls games are somehow the cream of the crop.
Zenless is build focused, but I see nobody talk about utilizing i-frames, hyper armor, or complex tech in character movesets etc. to take on fights at higher levels. I rarely see people play this game like an action game, and instead just focus on "min-maxing" all their characters and builds to make a 1, 2, 3 repetitive button combo while dodging enemies.
I agree with you for the most part though, I'll say this - everyone has something they like about games... and Zenless has a few things to provide to those people. I think the challenge in Zenless is similar to games like MGR, and DMC - or yes even Guilty Gear, or MvC. It's about understanding the mechanical complexities inherent to a characters moveset and identity. About executing their moves and role properly. Meter management... abusing switch tech etc. etc.
No this game is not as deep as DMC... not even CLOSE, but it is deeper than other Gacha's when it comes to combat. It IS similar to those games in that you can mash your way through almost all content in the game, but you'll look bad doing it, eat a lot of damage... and just go "I beat it"
I say... now do that without taking a hit, and do it fast. I beat Nineveh 11/11 first try, so uh... yeah
This is a great comment!
One thing I would like to add is I absolutely agree with you that I focused on the numbers too much when I should have went more in depth on what differentiates a good player with an amazing player. Also no offense taken! Everyone is more than welcome to have their own opinion and I’m happy you shared your thoughts.
i personally STILL dont see the appeal of the souls games, ESPECIALLY bloodborne.
@@plvto1it's the lovecraftian horror element that makes bloodborne good along with faster paced more aggressive gameplay
Comparing this to actual action games like Bayonetta nier ninja gaiden and even DMC is a disservice to those games, this was designed with mobile in mind first it's not nearly as complex as your making it out to be, that said it is still leagues above other gacha games in style and execution.
@plvto1 Bloodborne is simply "survive and poke at a thing until it dies" Since it features some of the highest health bars in the franchise, the appeal is the dodging aspect
I don't get why pp complain about this. Go tower climbing with A rank no gears no weapon if you're so M.
Hi dru
I hope youre right, i just worry a bit when 90% of the early game content seemed pretty poorly designed. They did say theyre taking feedback about tv mode into account though, so im hoping for the best. Also nice job on the scripted video, i wouldnt have known you were new to it.
Poorly designed?
@@CD5300- the only thing I can think of is the way the combat mechanics are introduced, it kinda drags a bit imo. But poorly designed? Dunno about that.
"Game is hard for people that doesn't play games or genshin players." Bar is literally in hell.
"Game is hard without w-engine, drive disc or levels" so even genshin too. This is not an indicator. Best c6r5 character can't beat even slime if they are level 1 in max world difficulty.
"Game will be hard on future, trust." if it would be, why we didn't see proper end-game boss even in 1.1? There are 4 "possibly hard boss" in ZZZ. But if you looked at why they are hard, they are just annoying. It's not because you need to learn patern or something.
I wish you didn't bring up Dark Souls at all. This game is literally Genshin difficulty if you compare it with even easiest Dark Souls game. People are beating end-game content without seeing screen. I know you wanna be ZZZ CC but I wished you didn't make this video at start...