1970 Competition Mustang. Original bridge VS Gotoh Tune-O-Matic bridge for Nirvana Tone
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- In this video we are going to install a Gotoh tune-o-matic bridge on my 1970 Fender Competition Mustang. I've never really liked the sound of these bridges, for me they usually sound too metallic, I'm not sure why. It's one of the main reasons I don't play my Kurt Cobain Jaguar very much. Anyways, I hope you guys enjoy this one!
dude your content is super high quality, you deserve way more subs
Fr
I appreciate that!
@@AaronRash Did the Gotoh drop in, or did you need to drill or mod?
I am in genuine awe
If you are putting a shim under your neck use a full pocket shim. The small shim you put in could deform the neck over time, causing the high frets to be pushed higher
Yep and it sucks ha
I think how the bridge is mounted effects the tone. I think Kurt’s mustang had the old metal bushings removed and filled with wood, and redrilled for the tune o matic posts. That could make the raddle noise go away. Just a theory
Electrical tape could work too
This is the third time i’ve watched this video, its just that good.
I absolutely LOVE how you let us hear the sounds instead of covering it up with music. So awesome!!
I also will leave my strings on forever. I also liked the original bridge sound.
Dude…. I love your videos so much!!! I’m a complete vintage mustang nerd / addict as well…. The videography and edits are always top notch.. A+++ man….. keep it up!! 🤟🏼
Thanks man!!
I have a original pre cbs 1964 mustang in the blue green turquoise color. Trying to get rid of it, any ideas ? Are they collectible? I didn’t pay much for it , I got it on an eBay auction in the early 2000s
@@SaulTeebolz I would buy it!;)
Loved the playing at the start, sounded so good :))
Thanks!
İs the song you
@@venira5997yes
I hope this helps, I have 3 mustangs and I turned the “cigar” on the bridge backward so the strings are pulled straight through. Then I put a lock washer on the posts and screwed the posts all the way down so the “cigar” is flush on the tremolo plate. Why? Because that’s what Kurt did. It does effect the tone (for better or worse that’s your opinion) but it does replicate his tone a great deal at least to my ears. Also when I put new strings on a guitar I tune it to pitch, stretch the string two strings over, and repeat until it stays in tune even after stretching the string. This will help with the new string sound that I also hate. You remind me a lot of myself when it comes to what you’re doing with replicating Kurt’s sound. I’ve been doing it for 22 years. Again, I hope this helps.
Couldn't have said it better!
I agree flip the cigar tube around go to Home Depot and get some Allen head machine bolts and 7mm washers and loc tite then you don’t have to have washers under the tube which are visible and with the bolts the tube sits flush against the plate giving a steeper break angle to the bridge.
Right, you don’t want the washers to be seen, that would look weird. You’ll have to remove the tremolo plate, remove the springs, then put the washers on and tighten. Then put the tremolo plate back on.
Do you have a video or photo instruction how to do that? I mean the bridge. That would be really helpful
@@jessielike2 I don’t have a video. If you remove the plate you can see the posts I was talking about. Remove the springs from the post and discard them, unscrew the posts in the “cigar” the strings run through, turn the “cigar” around, put a small lock washer (a THIN lock washer) on the post and screw it back into the “cigar”. It’s really that easy.
"I'm the type of guy that leaves the strings on for 5yrs" but have only been playing for not even 2yrs 🤦♂️. Great vids tho dude & you must have an awesome plug for gear or just heaps of cash lol. 🤘
my fave was a 67 fender bronco,got it n 1994..i was home invaded back in 2000 i still have not recovered...same case as that blu stang though..i miss stuff.had to watch thugs walk out with so much stuff..just wish they left my beat up bronco..it really meant the world to me.
Your video quality and production is always so consistent, you seem to prefer quality over quantity, Overall TOM does sound more darker and it doesn’t let the notes ring out as much than the stock bridge. After hearing the comparison I must say I was pretty dumbfounded that the stock bridge did sound a bit like Kurt’s real mustang but also the TOM also did have some of that aspects of Kurt’s tone here and there. In conclusion: Stock sounds better and TOM has better tuning stability and Intonation.
Thanks man, I agree. I've already reverted it back to stock. I've decided to sell this mustang. I like my sunburst one more.
@@AaronRash Yeah i recently saw the listing, I know that it's your guitar and you decide whether you keep it or sell it, but im just gonna say here that you should keep it and it will shoot up in value in a few years
No, the tuneomatic doesnt bring more stability (you can put sleeves on the mustang bridge posts if you absolutely want it non-rocking, but from my experience it’s completely useless on a stang). Regarding the intonation, tuneomatics make it almost impossible to intonate properly, because of the mismatched radius that brings the outer strings action way too high especially in the higher frets (and anyway, the mustang bridge also has also individual saddles ajustments, so no advantage there too)
The comp. Paint job is so beautiful! I’m about to get my replica, keep up the good content!
that fretboard clean-up was amazing ASMR
really surprised to hear you dislike the TuneOMatic! once you did the switch, my ears perked up... I like it undeniably more
Agree on new strings - I changed my strings today and I was almost in tears after. Felt like a system restore to a time before I'd done all the work. But even so I preferred that bridge to the stock one!
The Tune-O-Matic has more sustain which is what your hearing. On strings, I have strings on my HH Jag from 2007 and strings on my 90 Strat from 1997! lol
The sound of those strings sliding through the “cigar”!! Ahahah a sound I know all too well!!!
I know. With how clean the guitar is, even cheap me was thinking: "I'd cut those strings if Inwas you. No scratches on the bridge, or body.
Love your videos, I check every day for a new one 👍
Glad you like them!
Man, those ASMR sounds are so soothing...
Watching you clean that guitar and listening to all the sounds made me seriously happy.
I've got a 1969 Mustang - LOVE it. Replaced neck pickup with a SD Hot Rails. Kicks butt !
Man this channel is great. Just bought a Mustang 90 and was mooching around, and found this channel. It's really fun.
wow the atmosphere of this video is so perfect
Your picture quality is quite impressive ! and the video itself too super fun to watch
Thanks a lot!
Never seen your channel. Wonderful content, instantly subscribed.
Remember IF you’re going to use a shim for a long time you should buy a stew Mac shim.
The shim just in the bottom of the pocket will eventually pull your butt of the neck up.
Original + old strings sounded better to me. More mellow, soft, smooth
I saw a video with Tomo Fujita and his '65 Mustang that you can buy graduated wood shims from Stewmac to increase the neck contact with the body to help with resonance. Better than shoving cardboard in there. Might be helpful in future.
I appreciate the ASMR elements of this video
Definitely dug the factory bridge more, noticed more kurt tones in your playing with it too. Just my opinion. I could be bias cuz i have a sweet ‘66 mustang. Completely agree with your whole synopsis: the beautiful vintage case smell, the feeling of connection/bonding of when you find THAT one guitar. No other guitar has spoken to me like my stang, besides one particular beat up mojo machine ‘65 strat I got to play once. Cherish that thing man 🤘
Dude your videography is astounding. Thanks so much! ⚡️
Agreed. The tune-o-matic takes all the low end thump out of the guitar and gives it this nasally midrange. Another problem is that it introduces a radius mismatch with the 7.25” fingerboard. The tune-o-matic bridges are made for Gibson style guitars and thus have a 12 inch radius. I’ve had a few guitars with this pairing and find them uncomfortable to play. Great video!
PS: you made me wince when you started filing the saddles without taping off the pickups! Those metal filings can wreak havoc if they get on the pickup magnet.
There’s a company called mastery that makes really good mustang bridges. They are true to the original sound but have an updated design that is more comfy and way more stable.
How did you get the posts to the TOM bridge to fit in the mustang thimbles? Also Milk It sounds fantastic dude. Can’t wait for that! That’s my favorite In Utero track I’d say
Thank you! I just took some gaffers tape and wrapped them around the post to fit.
@@AaronRash i did that to my 95 jagstang...I got it brand new in 96 i think, made that mod to the original tremelo/bridge, its held up this long.....and its still the same tape...
It’s likely that mounting the Tuneomatic with gaffer tape isn’t going to do things any favours tonally.
I recently swapped from a Mastery to a Tuneomatic on my JM using Rocking Excenter Bushings and prefer the Tuneomatic.
The bridge still rocks as there is a little bit of play in the mounting posts in the bushing holes and with the bridge on the posts and thumbwheels.
Great video! I was very surprised with how much the tone changes. I definitively prefer the original. The Gotoh one I feel loses warmth and sustain. I think it's just a matter of which bridge transfers the more vibrations to the body's wood. Also, unrelated, how do you get those shots?!?! like from 3:35 and onward. Suuuper sweet shots. I hope you keep including things like that in future videos. Greetings from Argentina. -F
I actually liked the gotoh tone!
I totally agree with you, The tunomatic really eats up the sound. Didn´t expect it to hear it that clearly.
incredible! As always! Your jams actually sound killer!
I'd definitely say the original bridge sounds better. It sounds fatter and more dynamic to me.
Also I love the riff at the beginning of this video. I'd love to hear more of that.
Such a passionate person and I think that's all the counts ❤️ ✌️ the cinematography is astounding brother
WOW, I don't know if I'm watching a movie or a review, great job bro, it looks amazing!!
Subscribed. Phenomenal content and editing!!! You deserve way more subscribers… you just gained one here! Keep bringing us awesome vids thanks so much…
this turned out to be a really relaxing video
i like it
It’s so odd that you only have 2k subs but have better content than like any other guitar v-loger
The riff in the beginning was so damn fucking cool dude
Gorgeous Russian Blue... I miss My Verbal. He was the goodest boy
this is so cool. i loved the intro. amazing videos bro
Thank you so much for the great videos 👍. I'm with you on the mustang bridge sounding better.
Oh the original one sounds soooo much dynamic and less "zingy", incredible how the sustain is sweeter too. Thanks for these videos, those are really top notch quality and relevant, not just for Nirvana tones but in matter of global guitar settings and appreciation. Long may you run.
the whole differnce in tone is probably due to different distance between the strings and the pickups
im no professional... and i play a strat and les paul jr... but maybe if you leave the bridge on for longer, the less metallic it'll sound? idk just an idea. i love your content btw❤
What type of Gotoh Tom are you using Aaron? As I see others doing this mod by taking out the bushings from the body, plugging the holes and redrilling for the Tom bridge, where as you just did a straight drop into the body mounted bushings, see I’d like to try this way so i could revert back to the original mustang bridge 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼 Cheers bro
this is basically asmr
That's why i like tune o matic bridge
Putting a tune o matic on this is just setting it up improperly, the strings are meant to follow the radius of the neck but if you like it and it’s more comfortable more power to you.
And the Academy Award for best sound design goes to.......
I don't know about the mustang or the gotoh bridge but I like the tune-o-matic bridge on the j mascis jazzmaster. It adds sustain and has a more balanced tone which you can bend to more directions as you need. The original bridge suits better for rhythm and the tune-o-matic or other aftermarket replacements better for solo playing.
you're really ...neat.
Nice video, as always. Just to react to some comments i read. I had 3 made in japan mustangs (and played a lot of my friends’ stangs too). These were among the most tuning stable guitars i’ve had (a lot more than my SGs and LesPauls with tuneomatics and stop tails which couldnt keep a G string in tune for 5 minutes). Putting 12’ tuneomatics on those 7.25’ radius guitars and reversing the cigar is 100% downgrade. It brings nothing but problems; makes playing difficult because of the inconsistent action (and yes you can file the TOM saddles, but you have to remove so much material it causes other issues in most cases), it makes the guitar hard to intonate properly (outer strings too high in the higher frets), makes a super cool vibrato unusable, makes you having to shim the neck for no valuable reason (mustang bridges also have individual saddles ajustment, they stay put if you don’t use the trem, and you can put some sleeves around the posts if you absolutely want them non-rocking). And now, thanks to that video, you can see that it doesnt sound better either (not that KC was doing it for tone purposes anyway). Just keep in mind that it was a different time (no internet ressource, no straytrems / masteries / halons and what not). Now people just know better on offset guitars, and imo there’s no point paying extras to modify a perfectly fine guitar to only make it worse. And it’s ok to love Kurt without cosplaying everything he did, even some odd choices he made when he was 25 (i bet he’d prefer that too anyway).
Good stuff! I agree in your demo the original bridge sounds way better. I don't have a T.O.M on any of my short scale guitars yet and after seeing this I probably won't. 😆
yup. subscribing now. thanks for this video, that was very enjoyable!
I put a TOM bridge on my 1st
Jag-Stang and switched back shortly after as I hated that it didn’t match the radius of the fretboard
what did you use to oil the neck? i have never seen someone use a spray bottle
@@noobymoosehead my bad made a typo i was talking about the neck
The original clearly sounds better. Have you set the pickup height in relation to the the strings equally in both bridges? If you are having problems with the stock, maybe you should try the Mastery, I like to think it is what Kurt would be using nowadays. Thurston Moore and Lee Ranaldo use them.
Regarding IU tone, I made a video trying to recreate Very Ape lead guitar tone, got a close result using a P90 equipped guitar (simulating the Veleno) and a op amp fuzz, perhaps that's the song Kurt used a Big Muff (Albini mentioned one being used).
The higher profile makes a greater break angle for the string, which effects the tone and tension. Hence why alot of players like to "top wrap" les pauls.
You can try nylon saddles on the tune o matic it will mellow it out a ton. try them. also he reversed the tail piece which actually changes the string tension a bit. try that too! I had a 69 just like yours (and kurts) I did all the same mods - then sold it. Still regret it. I now have the sig. Mustang in sonic blue -it hits the spot.
By not using a full pocket neck shim there’s potentially a loss of resonance transfer between the neck and body of the guitar.
I've been enjoying your tone series recently. Have you thought about doing nevermind? Would love drain you.
The muskiness is actually coming from the case itself. A lot of cases smell like absolute cat piss lol
Bro your riffs are fire...what are the tabs for your intro ????? I need this
True. Do you know if its a song or not? Cause it sounds amazing
Heart shaped box is perfect with the original one
the gotoh on its own sounds really dull but if you block the trem and flip the cigar so the strings run straight through (like kurt did) the tone is a lot better
Hey man, I've done that before also, not enough downforce on the bridge and the tone sounds worse in my opinion. I'm actually not really a fan of Kurts live mustang tone. I'm crazy about the in utero recording tone though.
It's nice to share with us , your journey searching the sound of Kurt Cobain's guitar tone.
But I have a question for you....
What about your Tone?
What about your experience with sound?
What about your voice?
Cheers and thanks for great stuff you upload.
Beautiful video man
Glad you liked it
Did you sell this to Mike's Guitar Bar? yours looks the same as the one on their shelves!
Seems like the note definition is better with the Gotoh. Might sound better in a mix.
I noticed the nut slots were too deep and the Gotoh saddle contact points were filed way too wide and round. I know you wanted lower action since tuneomatics in fenders sit way too high, but that really affects tone and intonation. The string contact points have to be filed to a thin and sharp point. Im putting a fresh Gotoh in my mustang, and I’m going to slightly shim the neck like you did but with a full shim . I made a new bone nut from a blank with proper slots and string height and I’m also going to grind down the underside of the Gotoh where it sits on the thumb wheels, to avoid filing the saddles.
Your content is awesome bro
Thank you so much 😀
@@AaronRash genuinely amazing bro ...keep going 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Is the playing at the beginning your original? Or is it another song? It sounds amazing! If it's yours, you should totally make a full song!
I do like it better with the stock bridge, the funny thing is that he used the Competition Mustang in it's original state to record Nevermind, he added the tune o matic bridge later in '92. so the most relevant use that guitar ever had was while it was original. In regards to the tone, I think any guitar changes a little bit (or a lot) if you replace important parts in it, like electronics or hardware that actually touches and transfers the vibration on the strings.
Did he have the hot rails in the Mustang during the Nevermind recording
@@sofaslapper8715 no
he didnt use competition for nevermind
@@mirata7748 Actually he did use it...
@@mirata7748 He used it for the clean guitar part in "In Bloom"
can you make a tutorial for the melody you play please read my message
Hey what's up Aaron! Nice vids as always. I was wondering, what are the screw post you bought for the TOM bridge? Obviously it isn't the standard "narrow" one. Thanks and keep up the good work.
id love the to have this guitar! So cool
Great video dude, thank you. The way you shimmed the neck would work for angle, but wouldn't you be reducing the neck to body contact loads? Aren't shims normally an angled wedge of wood? Stew Mac sells them. You'll laugh, I took my Mustang's tune o magic bridge to my bench grinder and just removed tones of metal until the action was playable. Didn't shim the neck. People who know stuff about guitars say the tune o matic is a bad fit for the Mustang because the neck radius is incorrect for the tune o matic, which effects string height consistency. I guess it's a do you want it to look right or sound right thing. Keep up the great work!
Очень круто! Спасибо за вдохновение!
А , что за песня в начале ?
@@Кто-тоНудануда seems like a Cobain inspired original of Arron's. That's my best guess! Anyway, I hope the translate feature is working for you :)
Love your videos, but was cringing seeing you file by the pickups. The magnets will pickup filings from that just like why you don't use steel wool on the frets just for that reason. Love your shit though! So jealous of your equipment. I'll have to show you my collection so far. Hopefully this helps, and you don't have to ask someone why the polarity on your pickups reversed I like did once as a kid. Keep up the great work!
Hey! I just did it did it for the shot, The saddles were already filed off the guitar for this reason.
I’m suprised how much darker the original bridge sounded
Yes please share !
The Tupac shirt I thought was a nice touch. I have a shirt with Chris Farlley, Tupac, and Kurt Cobain on it. Lol.
Dude your shirt sounds way cooler, I want it lol
have you considered a buzz stop? ;) jk actually I don't think one exists for mustang trems. I used to rub some chapstick in the bridge saddles that would help with the tinny-ness. I hear white lithium grease works well too. The only other thing I can think of is using the screw-in thimbles for the TOM bridge, but not exactly a mod I would do on a vintage guitar either. Maybe theres some other way to stabilize the bridge posts in the thimbles could help.
Electrical tape there helps keep it sturdy.
I've already reverted it back to stock. I couldn't stand how it sounded with the TOM, plus I've decided to sell this mustang
I put a Gotoh oh my new jagstang and I also have mixed feelings about it. The neck is a 7 1/2 radius or whatever so the two e's seem a bit higher and then so you're always fighting string buzz or those two being lifted. I don't know what neck you have, but if the radius is less than the newer 9 or flat 12 it could be that? I'm a tinkering, but I'm unsure of my skills, so maybe my shim setup isn't right or maybe my bridge needs filing. It probably is the filing for me.
Don’t be so quick to lose the Tune-O-Matic.
There’s a couple things you can do to improve it.
You can switch the saddles to either roller saddles or nylon saddles that most Gibsons used in the late 50’s and 60’s.
I think either of the two will outperform the stock metal saddle that Gotoh uses.
Have you considered that compare 'album result' vs 'my sound' from and album is kind of Ilusional?, For example taking in consideration, that their sound engineer (Butch) probably changed lot of things on the mixing and mastering of some of the takes Kurt made, I mean, hit on the spot is not that easy. Love ur vids btw.
I wonder what Seymour Duncan bridge pickup did you have in that mustang? I love your tone!
i think it is just the strings, when i first got my mustang it sounded like that, but after a while it started changing
if you don't like the sound of new strings, put some chapstick on the strings and leave it for half an hour before wiping it off. works like a charm.
Love your videos and attention to detail, especially when explaining schematics to people. Just a quick comment, I’m insanely jealous that as a lefty, I will probably never own an original 69 comp mustang. It took me forever to find my 2011 road worn jag and 2012 Skystang. I think my only options are to 1) find a vintage lefty mustang and refinish it comp blue(burgundy) or 2) get an MG69 reissue and refinish it. But, even the MG69 reissues are very hard to find left handed for less than $2000(which is a lot for a basic mustang, which still would need to be modded). If you ever hear of a vintage lefty mustang, please let me know! Keep up the great work! @aaronrash
Hi Aaron, your video is amazing! I wanted to know what’s the reference of the TOM you used? I have a brand new Jag-Stang which is buzzing very bad and I don't have any solution for this problem
the gotoh slaps
Goldeneye elevator music very interesting choice.
Great video, i just need to know. What was the song were you playing at the beginning?