@hkrifleworks I'm curious what weight jp silent capture spring you went with. I am almost done with a very similar gas gun build in 6 arc and have a standard weight jp system with superlative arms adjustable gas block.
Very nice. I went with the H2 SCS for my rifle. It’s been working perfectly for my setup but going to need to make some minor tweaks now I’ve gotten in the Velos 762.
If you are curious, remove your gas tube and turn your gas block 180deg and tighten it back down. I did this one time as I was thinking about putting together kind of a diy manual straight pull upper. I shot maybe 10 rounds. When I took off the gas block the gas port in the barrel was filled with little pieces of copper jacket. It probably depends on how the gas port is drilled, but it can shave off jacket.
Solid comment and great info here. Personally, I’ve seen plenty “rough” or a burr on gas ports that will accumulate copper on a bore scope. There are some gas ports that look really good that make me question if they’re pulling enough copper to even quantify haha. Could be subjective, like you mentioned on how the gas port is drilled and how clean it is inside the barrel.
I've been limited to my 14.5 w a razor 1-6.. recently sold my old hot rod to a buddy and that allowed me to pull the trigger on a MPA with a razor 6-36. Still waiting for the build but I enjoy seeing these videos and gathering information as I wait on mine. Both wonderful looking rifles you have.
Thanks for the kind words and taking the time to watch. I also have a 14.5” (Block II) with a 1-10 razor and have been very impressed by how capable that rifle is with 77 grain SMK’s. Both your 14.5” and MPA sound like fantastic rifles. Best of luck on the wait and hope you have a blast when it comes in. Also, sorry you had to sell the hot rod. I just finished building out a C6 Corvette in my garage (heads, cam, LT’s, full 3” exhaust, intake, etc..). What a fun hobby
The accuracy is in the upper, sloppy lowers is primarily a concern if you don't stay rigid behind the gun (not loading into the bipod or support) recoil impulse might suffer but that's a non issue with accuracy of the firearm, only with the actual shooter.
No disagreements there. Let me know if I misspoke here. However, any play/slop in parts wasn’t related to accuracy in my assessment. It was just related to how rigid the platform is or could be. Essentially that there could be more parts movement on an AR compared to a bolt gun.
I was a big bolt gun guy until I got a psa pa10 in 308. $800 ar10 that shoots .75in groups at 100 yards with 168 smk. That's more accurate than I will be in any real world situation.
Very nice. PSA makes a nice rifle for the value. I’ve got a PSA Sabre 10 (M110 inspired rifle) that shoots very well also. Great points on real world applications. Out of curiosity, have you tried it at distance? How does it compare to your bolt gun in consistency as the rifle heats and cools?
Please comment on your bullet seating depth regarding maximum mag length. I ask because it appears your bolt action has a detachable magazine that maybe also maximum cartridge length limited. Unless you single feed only. Good discussion.
the problem with 6 arc ar 1 5 bolts is probably the same problem with 7.62 x 39 bolts the case head is wider than the 556. so instead of using a bigger bolt for this round that is wider and more powerful, they decided it was a good idea to mill out the ar bolt to fit the cartridge. which of course made it susceptible to breaking. although i am not sure this is just a guess. if you compare your 6 arc bolt to a standard 556 bolt you'll find out if this is true.
Correct, PPC bolt faces are .445 +/- where 223/556 are .378 +/-. 6 ARC has to be kept closer to 50,000 psi and 556 can get in upper 50k psi range if I remember correctly. If you look at published load data, 6 arc has more mild gas gun loads than bolt gun loads. Im assuming for the point you mentioned where the bolt has less strength due to the larger face. I’m wondering if anyone here has had an issue with this? I’ve personally never seen it over a few thousand rounds from multiple shooters. Small sample size though
@@hkrifleworks i heard the cmmg mutant (which is chambered in 7.62 x 39 uses an ar10 size bolt. it would be better if manufacturers did the same for 6 arc. probably don't have to worry about bolt breaking in that case. i don't much about the subject. are the manufactures at least clear about the round count these bolts are rated for?
Edit: I looked into it and the Mutant barrels won’t fit AR15 uppers, only “Mid-sized CMMG MK47 uppers”. I’m assuming it’s a larger barrel extension for the larger bolt. That’s right on the Mutant and good points. My question on the mutant is do they use an AR15 diameter barrel extension to fit into the upper and is the upper made to fit AR15 barrel extension diameters? Material has to be removed somewhere and since 6 arc is designed to work on a small frame AR receiver, I’m unsure if there would be enough room for an AR10 bolt in an AR 15 upper and barrel extension? I don’t think I have seen any bolt manufactures rate for specific round counts in regard to 6 Arc (correct me if I’m wrong), but I’m sure they manufacture to operate safely within SAAMI pressures of the cartridges they’re designed for. Not to say they can’t fail lol I have also heard that 6 arc factory ammunition manufactures make their ammo to work safely in all rifles (all safe for gas guns) opposed to making specific bolt and gas pressured loads. The handloading manuals do give you the option for specific bolt gun loads though. Generally speaking here as I’m sure there is a mfg that makes a hotter bolt gun load.
have you had any experiences with bolt breakage on the 6 arc? Im running an enhanced JP bolt on my 18 inch Noveske and im currently building a 12.5 PDWish 6 arc with a centurion barrel. Not too many bolt choices for the 6 arc, also have you tried the Geissele mags?
I have not personally ran into that. Sounds like it was isolated at the beginning to me (not to mention the case 6 MAX is making right now for bolt integrity). Definitely a bit anemic on selections but at least we have some good ones like JP. I’m yet to try those G mags. I invested heavily on the 6 ARC right when it dropped. Don’t judge but I picked up some of the Amend 2 mags out of the gate and they’ve been working great 😂
@@hkrifleworks Noveske just released a DLC bolt as well as complete BCG for the 6arc prob going to try that out. I experimented with the Geissele mags and have had nothing but reliability but only would buy them on sale. Even a sale is $80 a mag
I may have to give one a try on my next rifle that’s for sure. Oof, that is fairly steep. I’ll wait for their next sale on a holiday and will pick one or two up. I’ve noticed almost all of my G products seem to just work haha. That phased array gas system they are using has peaked my interest
Thank you and for sure. Super easy job. I’ll use the big natural sponges (with the big craters in them) to apply the paint and just alternate big splotches between FDE, OD green and brown.
Both is the right answer in my opinion. Very interesting! Is there some good available match ammunition in the 54r flavor? Which bolt and gas guns are you shooting with that chambering? PSL or SVD for gas gun?
@@hkrifleworks the newest version of the psl and a 1955 polish m44 that looks like it's never been shot, still can't believe I found it. And the ammo I'm using is 182 Grain FMJ Yugo M30 Surplus
I started with a vepr but had to get rid of it. Just got back into shooting and decided to stick with that caliber because I already had a lot of it and this was the best brass I could find it's all my rang would allow@@hkrifleworks
I feel like this is consistent messaging and definitely could be true for a military/fighting rifle, or matches where targets are manageable in size and time is short. I try to lean to the “right tool for the right job”, regardless of distance. For example, I pick up a bolt gun every time for 300yd benchrest or other areas where precision is most important. I’ll use a gas gun when targets are bigger and time is at a premium within reasonable distances for the platform Agreed on the mags. I’ve got so many capable precision rifles (SA and LA from 223 to mag bolt face), I won’t pick up my magnums until 1,200yds or so.
I completely agree with you. The gas gun is superior in every way except weight and precision. Even then the only thing that you can quantify on paper is weight. 99.9 percent of people can’t out shoot what their gun can actually do. Even then when you look at apples to apples a true precision bolt weighs 15+ pounds and is very niche with 26 inch barrels and obnoxious brakes. The same weight AR would have optic of your choice, back up sight of your choice (red dot or irons), IR laser and illumination, white light, full magazine and a very hard use inconel silencer all on a 14.5-16 inch barrel. Autoloaders are just more useful, practical and can be used in a defensive situation. While it is cool to see these guys lay on their fat gut and launch rounds at a mile and hit a target consistently, it is no way shape or form practical. Those same guys aren’t hunting at those distances either and they are the best in the world. At most they are slapping game at 500 yards. I am not shooting across a canyon at a goat then taking 12 hours to hike to him, field dress him then pack it out.
Algorithm comment for the gas gun team 😊
Based comment☝🏻
@hkrifleworks I'm curious what weight jp silent capture spring you went with.
I am almost done with a very similar gas gun build in 6 arc and have a standard weight jp system with superlative arms adjustable gas block.
Very nice. I went with the H2 SCS for my rifle. It’s been working perfectly for my setup but going to need to make some minor tweaks now I’ve gotten in the Velos 762.
Gas gun be fast gun 😁
If you are curious, remove your gas tube and turn your gas block 180deg and tighten it back down. I did this one time as I was thinking about putting together kind of a diy manual straight pull upper. I shot maybe 10 rounds. When I took off the gas block the gas port in the barrel was filled with little pieces of copper jacket. It probably depends on how the gas port is drilled, but it can shave off jacket.
Solid comment and great info here. Personally, I’ve seen plenty “rough” or a burr on gas ports that will accumulate copper on a bore scope. There are some gas ports that look really good that make me question if they’re pulling enough copper to even quantify haha. Could be subjective, like you mentioned on how the gas port is drilled and how clean it is inside the barrel.
I've been limited to my 14.5 w a razor 1-6.. recently sold my old hot rod to a buddy and that allowed me to pull the trigger on a MPA with a razor 6-36. Still waiting for the build but I enjoy seeing these videos and gathering information as I wait on mine.
Both wonderful looking rifles you have.
Thanks for the kind words and taking the time to watch. I also have a 14.5” (Block II) with a 1-10 razor and have been very impressed by how capable that rifle is with 77 grain SMK’s. Both your 14.5” and MPA sound like fantastic rifles. Best of luck on the wait and hope you have a blast when it comes in.
Also, sorry you had to sell the hot rod. I just finished building out a C6 Corvette in my garage (heads, cam, LT’s, full 3” exhaust, intake, etc..). What a fun hobby
very nice comparison
Thanks for watching!
LMT MARS has their speed bumps on the upper which are filed to an exact fit to lower
That’s right! HK also has those detent/locking mechanism pins to tighten things up as well
The accuracy is in the upper, sloppy lowers is primarily a concern if you don't stay rigid behind the gun (not loading into the bipod or support) recoil impulse might suffer but that's a non issue with accuracy of the firearm, only with the actual shooter.
No disagreements there. Let me know if I misspoke here. However, any play/slop in parts wasn’t related to accuracy in my assessment. It was just related to how rigid the platform is or could be. Essentially that there could be more parts movement on an AR compared to a bolt gun.
I was a big bolt gun guy until I got a psa pa10 in 308. $800 ar10 that shoots .75in groups at 100 yards with 168 smk. That's more accurate than I will be in any real world situation.
Very nice. PSA makes a nice rifle for the value. I’ve got a PSA Sabre 10 (M110 inspired rifle) that shoots very well also. Great points on real world applications.
Out of curiosity, have you tried it at distance? How does it compare to your bolt gun in consistency as the rifle heats and cools?
Great video. Thanks for the detail and technical deep dive.
Thanks for watching!
Please comment on your bullet seating depth regarding maximum mag length. I ask because it appears your bolt action has a detachable magazine that maybe also maximum cartridge length limited. Unless you single feed only. Good discussion.
Geez ur smart on this stuff
Tens of thousands of rounds and decades of testing to figure out what works, and what doesn’t 😂. Thanks for watching and for the kind words!
@@hkrifleworks i could tell as much in the first few minutes, you could make courses fr
Amazing video
Thanks for watching!
I prefer a bolt action for precision shots.
I tend to also
the problem with 6 arc ar 1 5 bolts is probably the same problem with 7.62 x 39 bolts the case head is wider than the 556. so instead of using a bigger bolt for this round that is wider and more powerful, they decided it was a good idea to mill out the ar bolt to fit the cartridge. which of course made it susceptible to breaking.
although i am not sure this is just a guess. if you compare your 6 arc bolt to a standard 556 bolt you'll find out if this is true.
Correct, PPC bolt faces are .445 +/- where 223/556 are .378 +/-. 6 ARC has to be kept closer to 50,000 psi and 556 can get in upper 50k psi range if I remember correctly. If you look at published load data, 6 arc has more mild gas gun loads than bolt gun loads. Im assuming for the point you mentioned where the bolt has less strength due to the larger face.
I’m wondering if anyone here has had an issue with this? I’ve personally never seen it over a few thousand rounds from multiple shooters. Small sample size though
@@hkrifleworks i heard the cmmg mutant (which is chambered in 7.62 x 39 uses an ar10 size bolt. it would be better if manufacturers did the same for 6 arc. probably don't have to worry about bolt breaking in that case.
i don't much about the subject. are the manufactures at least clear about the round count these bolts are rated for?
Edit: I looked into it and the Mutant barrels won’t fit AR15 uppers, only “Mid-sized CMMG MK47 uppers”. I’m assuming it’s a larger barrel extension for the larger bolt.
That’s right on the Mutant and good points. My question on the mutant is do they use an AR15 diameter barrel extension to fit into the upper and is the upper made to fit AR15 barrel extension diameters? Material has to be removed somewhere and since 6 arc is designed to work on a small frame AR receiver, I’m unsure if there would be enough room for an AR10 bolt in an AR 15 upper and barrel extension?
I don’t think I have seen any bolt manufactures rate for specific round counts in regard to 6 Arc (correct me if I’m wrong), but I’m sure they manufacture to operate safely within SAAMI pressures of the cartridges they’re designed for. Not to say they can’t fail lol
I have also heard that 6 arc factory ammunition manufactures make their ammo to work safely in all rifles (all safe for gas guns) opposed to making specific bolt and gas pressured loads. The handloading manuals do give you the option for specific bolt gun loads though. Generally speaking here as I’m sure there is a mfg that makes a hotter bolt gun load.
have you had any experiences with bolt breakage on the 6 arc? Im running an enhanced JP bolt on my 18 inch Noveske and im currently building a 12.5 PDWish 6 arc with a centurion barrel. Not too many bolt choices for the 6 arc, also have you tried the Geissele mags?
I have not personally ran into that. Sounds like it was isolated at the beginning to me (not to mention the case 6 MAX is making right now for bolt integrity). Definitely a bit anemic on selections but at least we have some good ones like JP. I’m yet to try those G mags. I invested heavily on the 6 ARC right when it dropped. Don’t judge but I picked up some of the Amend 2 mags out of the gate and they’ve been working great 😂
@@hkrifleworks Noveske just released a DLC bolt as well as complete BCG for the 6arc prob going to try that out. I experimented with the Geissele mags and have had nothing but reliability but only would buy them on sale. Even a sale is $80 a mag
I may have to give one a try on my next rifle that’s for sure. Oof, that is fairly steep. I’ll wait for their next sale on a holiday and will pick one or two up. I’ve noticed almost all of my G products seem to just work haha. That phased array gas system they are using has peaked my interest
Gas gun for anything AR15 platform (.223, 6ARC..ect), and bolt gun for anything bigger. (308, 6.5CM..ect)
Good blend there. I do love my 6 arc, 300blk and long throated 223 bolt guns for 85-90 grainers 😮💨
Can you tell us more on the sponge painted krg? As in colors and what type of paint. Looks great been wanting to do it.
Thank you and for sure. Super easy job. I’ll use the big natural sponges (with the big craters in them) to apply the paint and just alternate big splotches between FDE, OD green and brown.
Im trying to learn both and my caliber of choice is 7.62*54r
Both is the right answer in my opinion. Very interesting! Is there some good available match ammunition in the 54r flavor? Which bolt and gas guns are you shooting with that chambering? PSL or SVD for gas gun?
@@hkrifleworks the newest version of the psl and a 1955 polish m44 that looks like it's never been shot, still can't believe I found it. And the ammo I'm using is 182 Grain FMJ Yugo M30 Surplus
I started with a vepr but had to get rid of it. Just got back into shooting and decided to stick with that caliber because I already had a lot of it and this was the best brass I could find it's all my rang would allow@@hkrifleworks
Brass brass brass brass
I can’t stop saying it 🥲
@@hkrifleworks could barely notice it.
In my experience and opinion with how good modern autos are anything that’s not a magnum cartridge is better off in a semi automatic rifle
Fair assessment. Rifles and ammunition just keep getting better and better
@@hkrifleworks magnums only really shine past 600-800m
Under those distances a 1mos gas gun you can buy off the rack these days dominates
I feel like this is consistent messaging and definitely could be true for a military/fighting rifle, or matches where targets are manageable in size and time is short.
I try to lean to the “right tool for the right job”, regardless of distance. For example, I pick up a bolt gun every time for 300yd benchrest or other areas where precision is most important. I’ll use a gas gun when targets are bigger and time is at a premium within reasonable distances for the platform
Agreed on the mags. I’ve got so many capable precision rifles (SA and LA from 223 to mag bolt face), I won’t pick up my magnums until 1,200yds or so.
I completely agree with you. The gas gun is superior in every way except weight and precision. Even then the only thing that you can quantify on paper is weight. 99.9 percent of people can’t out shoot what their gun can actually do. Even then when you look at apples to apples a true precision bolt weighs 15+ pounds and is very niche with 26 inch barrels and obnoxious brakes. The same weight AR would have optic of your choice, back up sight of your choice (red dot or irons), IR laser and illumination, white light, full magazine and a very hard use inconel silencer all on a 14.5-16 inch barrel. Autoloaders are just more useful, practical and can be used in a defensive situation. While it is cool to see these guys lay on their fat gut and launch rounds at a mile and hit a target consistently, it is no way shape or form practical. Those same guys aren’t hunting at those distances either and they are the best in the world. At most they are slapping game at 500 yards. I am not shooting across a canyon at a goat then taking 12 hours to hike to him, field dress him then pack it out.