Not at all. Here in South Africa it holds the record for being the quickest 4cyl @ 7.63 in a Nissan LDV, and the record for the quickest N/A 1600cc @ 11.8 IIRC.
As a hobby it doesn’t matter what engine you like as long as you enjoy it and have fun with your own car. When people ask me what they should do with their car I always just say build the car for you and use the engine you want because why put in all the effort to make someone else happy
100% true brother I embarked on my journey of high power turbo 4ages because I was told by people I couldn't be done, I was flat out told a 4age can never make 400hp atw and I proved them wrong and now I'm going for even more to prove them wrong 2x over by going for 800hp atw and then who knows even more later
Exactly. The vast majority of people involved in this hobby aren't actually racing. They aren't competing for money or awards. It's about enjoyment. Even if they are in competition, there's a lot you can do with even older platforms if you actually have the knowledge.
I'm the same and I try to tell people to make sure you understand and weigh up all your options before you commit to something, I think the worst thing would be to spent a ton of money on something you don't understand and realise you really wanted something else.
@@802Garage My 7age is one of the most enjoyable engines I've ever owned so I agree entirely. I also like that I can drive it hard on the street and stay out of trouble at the same time.
I'm building a new 4age blacktop for my race car and it's what I prefer. My opinion is a toyota engine is ment for a toyota and Honda engine is for a Honda.
Great points about the harmonic balancer and good reminder about locktite on the oil pump bolts. I’m rebuilding a 4A right now so this is super useful info, cheers.
Great discussion guys . Cheers from Greece . Can you do a harmonic balancer discussion? Like when you need a different one from the factory ? What are the options ? Can you retrofit a harmonic for budget builds ? Thanks !
110% agree on you like the engine you like. i love opening the bonnet at a track day and being a bit sly 'its just a mild 4a with ITBs' when its fully built N/A motor. on engine explosion thing, i had a angry motor that Matt did all the head work on. it spun to 9500rpm for 6yrs without drama. which included using an alloy balancer. when Matt rebuilt that engine for me, we added a few more nice things because afford them, including a BHJ balancer at Matts insistence. the main reason was i knew the motor will last and i wanted to everything properly this time and not skimp on some things. new engine has been fantastic these last 5yrs of running and driving and its a stupid quick car for being such a basic package.
That 1600cc of yours was as fast as a stock nissan s15 turbo Silvia so how does a 2ltr turbo loose to a 1600cc NA If it's so shit 😂 put a turbo on your motor and destroy the other guy and your gearbox 😂
Money enjoyed is not money wasted! I put my first 4AGZE in my AE86 nearly 20 years ago. Spent a bit of money doing an SC14, custom instake, SMC Autronic to rune it to make 140rwkw. Which was really good and consistent numbers then. The car got parked up for a long time due to some other commitments in life. But now its back out and ready for its next lease on life. I'll be sending you a message to engage you time to plan out and build the next supercharger build. Keep up the videos mate, and keep up the great work!
One of my best pals has a 1jz in his 86. There was def fabrication and mods need but it fits/sits in there beautifully. The rad support was moded. You dont have to touch the firewall though.
That's correct but it throws out the weight massively so you kill the nimbleness of the chassis, if it's a drag car hell yeah brother let's go the 2jz is amazing Built for purpose the all around winner in the chassis is the 4a or k series for sure
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that modifying the rad support here in Australia is frowned upon by the authorities. I know a lot of people who have done it with no issue but I think it's a risk if its a street car.
Enjoyed this conversation. Keep em coming. You've mentioned that the beams engine has terrible oiling issues. Are you able to touch more on that in a future video perhaps? Thanks for the upload. Cheers.
Yes would love to know also ,my understanding is the beams sxe10 motor had a great stock set up. There is a beams ae86 race car on slicks in nz that has stock oiling system. HPA did a good interview .
@chadbenjamin8118 look for a bloke named Glen booth he is a legend with beams motors and could definatly answer more about this than my but from what I understand the pickup and sumps are shit but i don't have a ton of experience in high sidewards g forces on beams
K-swapping a Miata is roughly $10k American. That’s using the stock tranny. K-swap an AE86 and you are cutting the tunnel for whatever tranny you use, dropping the subframe which ruins the suspension front geometry. You lose the amazing weight balance and add more weight overall. Completely changing the dynamics. I’m keeping the 4age. You can engineer a k to work amazingly but that’s going to add a lot of $$$ to it.
You are spot on budget plays a massive role I could put any motor I want in any of my cars but the money is the factor, give me the budget and I can make it work 😊
I've been playing with 4ag's since 1995, started boosting them in 2002. I love them! Such a easy engine to work on and IMO easy to make decent power to upset many other variants of engine/cars. And reliable! I came from various v8's, 6's, and a few 4 bangers back in the early days. The 4ag gets into your blood. And being a aw11 enthusiast, the 4ag is the true heart of that car. If I could afford it, I'd be buying every 4ag i could get my hands on in Australia.
Good video, i like your honest opinions. I've been thinking same about same questions. When i got my ke70, all i wanted was to put 4age into it. Actually got one years ago but then past these years the laws made it possible to put 20v blacktop legally in my car so bought that my dream engine that i've wanted to put my car for almost ten years. Most of the people are now putting big engines and turbos in their cars in my country, finland. Actually not many old toyota enthusiasts in my area. And even less NA engines here. All the people want is pops and bangs and huge burnouts. It's okay for me, i'm still feeling am i out of the train as i'm doing it differently. Then i'm thinking i've always wanted to do my thing, drive a light old car with na engine screaming under the bonnet. That's what i like. No matter what those turbo boys are looking or saying. I have also tried one ke70 with stock beams, it just was not for me on the street. Maybe too much power for me. What i like is to use those rpm's without getting too much speed, that might be only me who thinks that way. After many sleepless nights personal engine choise is still 4age. These opinions might sound very strange but thats my personal and honest opinion.
20v KE70 is a great combo, great news on the updated laws in your area. I think you'll be happy because it seems like you've put a lot of thought into it. If anyone questions your decision you can always respond with "when in doubt add more valves"🤣
Dude, your reasoning is flawless. And as already said, seems like you're being more thoughtful than most people nowadays, in my opinion. Go ahead with your project and do share it because we can always do with more KE70s with a 20v.
@@NEVER-LIFT Before i started my project when my car was bone stock, i got in to a passenger seat of a ke70 with 4age bt. That might have also something to do with my dream build. Also about year after that my friend had a hatchbach levin ae86 with 4age blacktop, the sound it did make when he left the local youngster car guy gas station has been burnt in my head. About nine years has passed from those times and still i'm dreaming to drive one with those engines. Fingers crossed it may be soon, still lots of bodywork and loads of money to spend but slowly and surely...
@@YoShImUrA53 With my project the biggest problem has been money and experience to build, sometimes also the motivation. Also the parts i'd like to use are overseas. But yeah it has needed sacrifises from other hobbies now to get those parts. One reason i wanted to go for 20v bt way is i can keep the engine stock and still have a itb snorts and enough power, i know i could get same amount of power out of 16v with modifications. Stock engine sounds to my ear better solution. Of course i want the stock engine serviced well/rebuilt so it comes also very expensive. I will do a new electrics to whole chassis with new ecu and pdm, it will become bery expensive also. I don't want any wires from 80's. I think i should stop writing here before it gets too boring to read if it doesn't be it already. :---D I don't know about sharing, fed up with insta/other sosical media recently so may not post anything about the car. Everyone has seen a ke70 with 4age before so i'm not doing anything new and fancy. Even the these cars has gotten pretty rare and most ke70 builds are like spraycan painted here in finland. But yeah i must stop now..
@@rollaguy9533 hey man, don't beat yourself up. Just because it isn't something new, that doesn't mean it isn't interesting, or that you can't share it. Even if it's for your personal archive, to share with the world, or because you think it might inspire others to learn from your experience and help them in their journey... Or just because you can. Doesn't really matter, as it's not something to be limited to amazing ultimate builds, and we could all use a video of a passion project rather than a shouty content creator pushing some product down our throats... I have done a few videos with my build and my experiences with my 20v'd AE86 which I've tracked in California's Laguna Seca, Germany's Nurburgring, Belgium's SPA and recently UK's Brands Hatch. When I started my journey in 2011 I had NO idea I'd go this far with this car. But now I'm so glad I did and I have all those memories to relive and to share with others. But without a doubt, the best comment I can ever get from anybody is how my build inspired others to finish (or even start!) their own projects. There's an English quote that says "I hope that while so many people are out smelling the flowers someone is taking the time to plant some." 👊🏻😉
Guys , thank you for sharing I have the same view as you guys Lightweight, balance ,correct engine designation, not mixing brands. I respect if somebody does it , but that doesn’t mean I like it. 4age all the way
I’m under the opinion that it doesn’t matter what you do or how you do it someone is going to question it and tell you why you should of done it differently. I personally think you made the right choice.
Another question. You guys brought up offset crank regrinds (for 1.6 but narrower crank deflection when using a 7a block) in an earlier episode, and how the os giken is accomplishing a similar thing, but cnc machined with modern oiling galleys (or something). Would you guys recommend a diy-er do an offset crank regrind these days to do a similar thing, or for us diy-ers just save our pennies for an os giken piece?
I love both and I think they both serve a purpose, I actually own a 4agze in a car that I'll reveal on the channel one day when I get a chance. I think any boosted 4age is going to be fun but I've always lusted after the supercharger kits HKS and TRD made for the 4age. I imagine the power being linear and in a RWD application like my ae86 it looks hot in the engine bay. Only problem is the price is usually around $3500 AUD and the kits I've seen for sale are missing bits. Maybe one day though🤔. The standard 4agze supercharger kits usually seem messy to me and I don't like the charge pipe running over and across the engine.
I've been working on 4ag engines since I was 20yrs old, I will be 41 this year lol and I've seen it all, I was around when the big craze was to sr20 swap everything haha saw 86s, miatas, 510s, datsuns, vintage toyotas and even an FD rx7 sr20 swapped and many of us did different swaps because of the lack of power in the 4ag, like the Beams, 13b, Ca18 etc, but now that I'm older I have greater appreciation for the 4ag and don't mind the lack of power that much anymore 👍
Can you go in depth on the block strengthening for the 800hp 4ag? Or just in general like what product to use for cementing the blocks halfway up so theres still coolant flow and can resin be substituted for cement like what the honda guys use to close deck the blocks? You guys have covered this in previous episode but it would be cool to get a walk through of sorts how to mix it up pouring it in how to level it how long to let it sit to cure
Mat and I have spoken about filming this in the past but we just never got around to it. I'm actually interested in learning the secrets and tricks myself.
Great video. I've had plenty of 4ages 16v and 20v. the last one was a blacktop 20v in a 1977 ke30, very good combo, 120km in second. I was wondering your thoughts on 2zzge my friends have Mr-s track cars, little mod for the performance.
Fondness for 4age since the 90's ,ive currently gone for a 20v blacktop and relive my youth and love my 4age. Yes its an acquired taste but a k swap isnt be all end all.
4a its a hard strong engine nothing to worry abouts others he do very good and love boost also the head flow its great in my opinion if your engine goes there without to much spending money stay there
Depending on your goals it might work, there's a guy in the states who does multiple 2j swaps into ae86's but he builds dedicated drag cars. As I said in this video there is a guy here in Australia who pulled it off in a ke70 but it really isn't for me.
I think maybe you guys rev your 4A's quite a bit higher because I only spin my built up 4AGZE to around 7800rpm and my aluminum pulley has worked great for years. I dont really fear breaking a crankshaft at all.
Is it worth having a 40mm rod journal 4age crank repaired (PO ran car with knock and one journal is out of round 1mm). Or do I go find a used 42mm crank and build from there?
The crank will be cracked for sure bro I recommend a new crank and Barry at MRP in newzeland can sort you out with a brand new crank I suggest hitting him up
One engine swap that may fit the stock AE86 engine bay well, but I haven't seen done, is the 1zz / 2zz. If you read the SAE paper one the 1zz, it is smaller and lighter than the 4age. Stock 1zz valves are the same size as Atlantic valves. Some zz engines have been converted to rwd and installed in clubman style kit cars. I think they use the Ford Type 9 gearbox.
I read that SAE paper. The ZZ engine family was high tech for the time, especially compared to the A series engines. If it were my money, I'd go with the 2ZZ-GE just because it's the more sporting engine, though that valve lift changeover is a bit abrupt.
My first car was a celica with a 2zz engine and I crashed it like a noob, I still have the wreck sitting in my dads front yard, the car is useless but I might find a use for that engine one day.
Love these videos you guys are putting out. I’d love to see you guys talk through price brackets to build a 4age. What an oem rebuild costs, 10k, 15k, dream build etc. just to give us punters an idea of how much a mild street engine costs vs an all out 7a/9a mrp monster
@NEVER-LIFT I HAVE A 87 Toyota Hero pick-up genuine Japanese import im in Thailand its got a 1Y in it , how would a good 4age go in it but i like the idea of Webber's carbs the cars for the street, many say put a 1j or 2 j but it's a room factor and don't really want to butcher the firewall, what are your thought's on this please
Great video, I've learnt a lot from you lads. Last year I built a 7a to use in my daily ke70. It's driven everyday, reliable etc. I'd like some tips on making the 7a (stock smallport head, 11.4 comp, arp rod bolts,.lightweight fly) rev a little happier? Keen on your suggestions!
Great discussion. A question I ask myself when thinking about modernising my ke30 with a built 4age turbo. Making 200kw today but running old tech ECU, old turbo tech, old gearbox W-series. Should I fit a K20 turbo and make the same power or more with less stress on the motor?? Replacement engines are cheap, parts off the shelf are plenty full, well documented and kits to fit most cars, and require minimal modification to get the same power. The engine is much taller so fitting into a KE could be a challenge though.
Guarantee the people who rag on the 4AGE don't own an 86. I didn't buy my 86 for raw power, I bought it because it's cool. I bought my JZX110 MARK II for easy power.
I'd say it's safer but not ideal, I ran an old small port pulley for a couple of years before I upgraded to my ATI. I think the lightweight pulleys are a bad idea.
@katsumoto2013 because we didn't make the comparison we get told "why don't you k swap" or "4age is shit why waste your money on an old engine like that" so we are talking in response to these comments
Would you guys consider the Techno Toy Tuning Crank Pully one of the kind that would break you engine? Because Ironically I put one of those on my 4a and it blew after I did.
I have a Supercharged AW11 that is about to hit 300k km. I plan on rebuilding it within the next 6 months, what mods if any do you recommend doing for a weekend car? I, looking for more reliability than high HP. Is it worth it to rebuild the SC or should I go turbo/engine swap?
Definitely rebuild the 4agze. Higher c/r, cams and aftermarket ecu will give you some more poke and retain reliability. Though the sc12 is getting old, cannot be rebuilt and will limit hp output. If you're looking for a bit more power turbo is the way to go. I love superchargers, but the old sc12 has it's limits and there's not much room to fit a better/larger blower. The right size turbo you can still retain the low down grunt the supercharger offers but pick up more mid range and top end. My favorite street/weekend build was with a tiny garret gt2554r @18psi on a stock 4agze with smallport 4agze 8.9:1 pistons. Made 197rwhp and 315nm torque with a mild tune, was reliable AF and hell fun to drive, there was basically no lag. I drove that setup daily, drove it across Australia and back, did various track events etc.
I have had a KE with a 20 valve & currently have a JZX90 with 1jz and alsoi GC8 WRX. The 20 valve was easily the most fun car. WRX is fun, but im worried its going to break evry time I wind it out.
@technology42069 yeah I feel the same way about my 20v, the confidence it gives me to bash limiter is not like anything else I even worry about my dc2r b18c bashing limiter compared to my 20v turbo lol
@fuzzayd4601 yeah bunta put a group A motor into the ae86 in initial D it was a 20v silvertop, the formula Atlantic motors are a bit different but even I made that mistake early on
@@mtperformanceengines3508Managed to score a harmonic balancer off a retired turbo motor for my NA motor. Is there somewhere in Aus that reconditions balancers?
Hi, im planing to do a engine swap on my corolla AE92. Currently i have in my mind for a 2zzge swap or a 4AGE blacktop swap. Im planing to use this car as a daily as well as occasionally at the drag strip. What would be the ideal swap should i must follow. Any ideas about the 2zzge engine reliability compared to 4age black top?
Drifting is something I'd like to get into in the future and I've heard multiple people say that drifting a NA 4age powered car is a ton of fun and far cheaper on fuel and tyres compared to the bigger turbo cars
I actually lost subscribers due to this video 😅 But I have been experimenting with different things to try and get more reach. I guess you gotta play the game sometimes.
I'm with you 50% I think build the car to suit your needs and budget, if you can afford to get the results you want from the motor you want then do it but If you got a ke70/ae86 and an LS v8 motor there then put together what you got
Hey guys. New guy here. I may have a levin ae101 “gifted” to me that has a silvertop. I’ve been looking at a lot of videos about the engine. The build possibilities and capabilities. One question I have is; Everyone seems to agree that the k series/sr20 etc are a better alternative for power, but If you turbo the 4A-GE and then shoot for let’s say around 300hp. Isn’t it going to be equal or even better? Also love your videos keep up the great work!!
I like the 4age, granted it is not powerful by modern standards. But I did crack the headers a month or so ago. Welded and have back up headers on deck.
4ag ‘s maintenance is ridiculously easy to perform , great power output and replacement parts are cheap…….whats not to like? My fav engine is the Nissan sr20….. the bastard child of performance jdm 4 cyl
I agree 100% I was also pleasantly surprised when Mat explained that if I upgrade the cams in my sr20 that I don't need to adjust the tappet settings like a 4age, you just drop them in
Well no shit the k series is better than the 4age the fucking 4age is old as shit lmfao. I would hope a newer engine is far superior to a 30+ year old engine lmfao
Imagine comparing a 4age to a motor 10 years older than it I guess its an unfair comparison but it's funny the 4age is still being used today I wonder if it's because it's a good platform to use It's funny the k series is only good for 600hp before the bores split so you gotta fix that fuckup with darton MID sleves, I wonder if a 4age needs sleves to make 600hp I guess we will see with mine if it makes 800hp on no sleves
What do you guys think, are we crazy for messing around with these 4age's?
No
Dyno numbers are just that numbers, and numbers don't always represent driver/user experience.
@@fkn16v
Love the 4age's. Even the 4agze's. And both 16v and 20v. Keep doing what you guys do 👍
Not at all. Here in South Africa it holds the record for being the quickest 4cyl @ 7.63 in a Nissan LDV, and the record for the quickest N/A 1600cc @ 11.8 IIRC.
@@fkn16v Hit the nail on the head💪
"Why waste money on a 4age"
Because theyre fxxxxxxg cool.
:D
100% they cool 😎
It's not wasting money if the motor is cool.
The eternal question: Why?
The eternal answer: Because I can.
As a hobby it doesn’t matter what engine you like as long as you enjoy it and have fun with your own car. When people ask me what they should do with their car I always just say build the car for you and use the engine you want because why put in all the effort to make someone else happy
100% true brother I embarked on my journey of high power turbo 4ages because I was told by people I couldn't be done, I was flat out told a 4age can never make 400hp atw and I proved them wrong and now I'm going for even more to prove them wrong 2x over by going for 800hp atw and then who knows even more later
Exactly. The vast majority of people involved in this hobby aren't actually racing. They aren't competing for money or awards. It's about enjoyment. Even if they are in competition, there's a lot you can do with even older platforms if you actually have the knowledge.
I'm the same and I try to tell people to make sure you understand and weigh up all your options before you commit to something, I think the worst thing would be to spent a ton of money on something you don't understand and realise you really wanted something else.
@@802Garage My 7age is one of the most enjoyable engines I've ever owned so I agree entirely. I also like that I can drive it hard on the street and stay out of trouble at the same time.
I'm building a new 4age blacktop for my race car and it's what I prefer. My opinion is a toyota engine is ment for a toyota and Honda engine is for a Honda.
I have a corolla with a 4age and a honda dc2r with the b18c and I love all my cars
Great points about the harmonic balancer and good reminder about locktite on the oil pump bolts. I’m rebuilding a 4A right now so this is super useful info, cheers.
Mat is great for refreshers like that, he often reteaches me things I genuinely forget over time😅
Niko makes a great point about size the 4age is tiny its a great motor for small cars hard to beat for package size.
I also love the look, the 4age is a hot looking motor in any engine bay
Great discussion guys . Cheers from Greece . Can you do a harmonic balancer discussion? Like when you need a different one from the factory ? What are the options ? Can you retrofit a harmonic for budget builds ? Thanks !
The main thing is that you don't want to have any kind of crank pulley that is not of a dampened type.
110% agree on you like the engine you like. i love opening the bonnet at a track day and being a bit sly 'its just a mild 4a with ITBs' when its fully built N/A motor.
on engine explosion thing, i had a angry motor that Matt did all the head work on. it spun to 9500rpm for 6yrs without drama. which included using an alloy balancer.
when Matt rebuilt that engine for me, we added a few more nice things because afford them, including a BHJ balancer at Matts insistence. the main reason was i knew the motor will last and i wanted to everything properly this time and not skimp on some things.
new engine has been fantastic these last 5yrs of running and driving and its a stupid quick car for being such a basic package.
That 1600cc of yours was as fast as a stock nissan s15 turbo Silvia so how does a 2ltr turbo loose to a 1600cc NA If it's so shit 😂 put a turbo on your motor and destroy the other guy and your gearbox 😂
Gotta get your car on the channel soon, I've got some time now to get my car back on the road and I'll hit you up.
Money enjoyed is not money wasted!
I put my first 4AGZE in my AE86 nearly 20 years ago. Spent a bit of money doing an SC14, custom instake, SMC Autronic to rune it to make 140rwkw. Which was really good and consistent numbers then. The car got parked up for a long time due to some other commitments in life. But now its back out and ready for its next lease on life.
I'll be sending you a message to engage you time to plan out and build the next supercharger build. Keep up the videos mate, and keep up the great work!
One of my best pals has a 1jz in his 86. There was def fabrication and mods need but it fits/sits in there beautifully. The rad support was moded. You dont have to touch the firewall though.
That's correct but it throws out the weight massively so you kill the nimbleness of the chassis, if it's a drag car hell yeah brother let's go the 2jz is amazing
Built for purpose the all around winner in the chassis is the 4a or k series for sure
I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that modifying the rad support here in Australia is frowned upon by the authorities. I know a lot of people who have done it with no issue but I think it's a risk if its a street car.
Enjoyed this conversation. Keep em coming. You've mentioned that the beams engine has terrible oiling issues. Are you able to touch more on that in a future video perhaps?
Thanks for the upload. Cheers.
Yes would love to know also ,my understanding is the beams sxe10 motor had a great stock set up. There is a beams ae86 race car on slicks in nz that has stock oiling system. HPA did a good interview .
@@CRsGarage-nz I'll check it out. Thank you.
@@chadbenjamin8118 ruclips.net/video/Gt2kRW4Wqeo/видео.html
@@chadbenjamin8118 ruclips.net/video/Gt2kRW4Wqeo/видео.html
@chadbenjamin8118 look for a bloke named Glen booth he is a legend with beams motors and could definatly answer more about this than my but from what I understand the pickup and sumps are shit but i don't have a ton of experience in high sidewards g forces on beams
K-swapping a Miata is roughly $10k American. That’s using the stock tranny. K-swap an AE86 and you are cutting the tunnel for whatever tranny you use, dropping the subframe which ruins the suspension front geometry. You lose the amazing weight balance and add more weight overall. Completely changing the dynamics. I’m keeping the 4age. You can engineer a k to work amazingly but that’s going to add a lot of $$$ to it.
You are spot on budget plays a massive role I could put any motor I want in any of my cars but the money is the factor, give me the budget and I can make it work 😊
Really well put mate 👍
I like 4 age 20v. Want a trueno sprinter
I've been playing with 4ag's since 1995, started boosting them in 2002. I love them! Such a easy engine to work on and IMO easy to make decent power to upset many other variants of engine/cars. And reliable!
I came from various v8's, 6's, and a few 4 bangers back in the early days.
The 4ag gets into your blood. And being a aw11 enthusiast, the 4ag is the true heart of that car.
If I could afford it, I'd be buying every 4ag i could get my hands on in Australia.
I'm slowly collecting them lol 😆
@@mtperformanceengines3508 damn you! 🤣
I was in preschool when you started 😅
@@NEVER-LIFT 😂
Good video, i like your honest opinions. I've been thinking same about same questions. When i got my ke70, all i wanted was to put 4age into it. Actually got one years ago but then past these years the laws made it possible to put 20v blacktop legally in my car so bought that my dream engine that i've wanted to put my car for almost ten years.
Most of the people are now putting big engines and turbos in their cars in my country, finland. Actually not many old toyota enthusiasts in my area. And even less NA engines here. All the people want is pops and bangs and huge burnouts. It's okay for me, i'm still feeling am i out of the train as i'm doing it differently. Then i'm thinking i've always wanted to do my thing, drive a light old car with na engine screaming under the bonnet. That's what i like. No matter what those turbo boys are looking or saying.
I have also tried one ke70 with stock beams, it just was not for me on the street. Maybe too much power for me. What i like is to use those rpm's without getting too much speed, that might be only me who thinks that way.
After many sleepless nights personal engine choise is still 4age.
These opinions might sound very strange but thats my personal and honest opinion.
20v KE70 is a great combo, great news on the updated laws in your area. I think you'll be happy because it seems like you've put a lot of thought into it.
If anyone questions your decision you can always respond with "when in doubt add more valves"🤣
Dude, your reasoning is flawless. And as already said, seems like you're being more thoughtful than most people nowadays, in my opinion. Go ahead with your project and do share it because we can always do with more KE70s with a 20v.
@@NEVER-LIFT Before i started my project when my car was bone stock, i got in to a passenger seat of a ke70 with 4age bt. That might have also something to do with my dream build. Also about year after that my friend had a hatchbach levin ae86 with 4age blacktop, the sound it did make when he left the local youngster car guy gas station has been burnt in my head. About nine years has passed from those times and still i'm dreaming to drive one with those engines. Fingers crossed it may be soon, still lots of bodywork and loads of money to spend but slowly and surely...
@@YoShImUrA53 With my project the biggest problem has been money and experience to build, sometimes also the motivation. Also the parts i'd like to use are overseas.
But yeah it has needed sacrifises from other hobbies now to get those parts.
One reason i wanted to go for 20v bt way is i can keep the engine stock and still have a itb snorts and enough power, i know i could get same amount of power out of 16v with modifications. Stock engine sounds to my ear better solution. Of course i want the stock engine serviced well/rebuilt so it comes also very expensive.
I will do a new electrics to whole chassis with new ecu and pdm, it will become bery expensive also. I don't want any wires from 80's.
I think i should stop writing here before it gets too boring to read if it doesn't be it already. :---D
I don't know about sharing, fed up with insta/other sosical media recently so may not post anything about the car. Everyone has seen a ke70 with 4age before so i'm not doing anything new and fancy. Even the these cars has gotten pretty rare and most ke70 builds are like spraycan painted here in finland.
But yeah i must stop now..
@@rollaguy9533 hey man, don't beat yourself up. Just because it isn't something new, that doesn't mean it isn't interesting, or that you can't share it.
Even if it's for your personal archive, to share with the world, or because you think it might inspire others to learn from your experience and help them in their journey... Or just because you can.
Doesn't really matter, as it's not something to be limited to amazing ultimate builds, and we could all use a video of a passion project rather than a shouty content creator pushing some product down our throats...
I have done a few videos with my build and my experiences with my 20v'd AE86 which I've tracked in California's Laguna Seca, Germany's Nurburgring, Belgium's SPA and recently UK's Brands Hatch. When I started my journey in 2011 I had NO idea I'd go this far with this car. But now I'm so glad I did and I have all those memories to relive and to share with others.
But without a doubt, the best comment I can ever get from anybody is how my build inspired others to finish (or even start!) their own projects.
There's an English quote that says "I hope that while so many people are out smelling the flowers someone is taking the time to plant some."
👊🏻😉
How do yall feel about aftermarket ecu’s (particularly megasquirt/speeduino vs big name brands like link/haltech etc).
Great video series btw!!
Driving an 86 with a 1J feels so much like driving a chaser.... Next discussion ke70 vs ae86.
I like that topic as I have drifted both and there is a clear winner in my opinion ❤
Great topic idea, Thanks Matt
Guys , thank you for sharing
I have the same view as you guys
Lightweight, balance ,correct engine designation, not mixing brands.
I respect if somebody does it , but that doesn’t mean I like it.
4age all the way
Hell yeah 4age brother 🙌
Thanks for the comment, I'm actually surprised with how many people agree with us.
I’m under the opinion that it doesn’t matter what you do or how you do it someone is going to question it and tell you why you should of done it differently. I personally think you made the right choice.
Thanks brother living the dream of 4a life here
Thanks, I don't have any regrets
Another question.
You guys brought up offset crank regrinds (for 1.6 but narrower crank deflection when using a 7a block) in an earlier episode, and how the os giken is accomplishing a similar thing, but cnc machined with modern oiling galleys (or something).
Would you guys recommend a diy-er do an offset crank regrind these days to do a similar thing, or for us diy-ers just save our pennies for an os giken piece?
4age is a great engine if built right
I love the old 2t and 3tc engines
Agreed
Interesting discussion. What are your thoughts on 4AGZE builds vs a high revving NA 4AGE?
I love both and I think they both serve a purpose, I actually own a 4agze in a car that I'll reveal on the channel one day when I get a chance.
I think any boosted 4age is going to be fun but I've always lusted after the supercharger kits HKS and TRD made for the 4age. I imagine the power being linear and in a RWD application like my ae86 it looks hot in the engine bay.
Only problem is the price is usually around $3500 AUD and the kits I've seen for sale are missing bits.
Maybe one day though🤔.
The standard 4agze supercharger kits usually seem messy to me and I don't like the charge pipe running over and across the engine.
@NEVER-LIFT you can run a 4agze as bone stock in an ae86 with a civic half rad and an sw20 intercooler beside it without the massive crossover pipe.
4age vs K series is like comparing a Cessna 152 to an Lockheed f35.
Your not wrong 😅
The F35 thats always down, not working, and a massive waste of money? That F35?
@@CaptainRon1913 duurrrppp duuurrr durrrr
I've been working on 4ag engines since I was 20yrs old, I will be 41 this year lol and I've seen it all, I was around when the big craze was to sr20 swap everything haha saw 86s, miatas, 510s, datsuns, vintage toyotas and even an FD rx7 sr20 swapped and many of us did different swaps because of the lack of power in the 4ag, like the Beams, 13b, Ca18 etc, but now that I'm older I have greater appreciation for the 4ag and don't mind the lack of power that much anymore 👍
Very cool!
Can you go in depth on the block strengthening for the 800hp 4ag? Or just in general like what product to use for cementing the blocks halfway up so theres still coolant flow and can resin be substituted for cement like what the honda guys use to close deck the blocks? You guys have covered this in previous episode but it would be cool to get a walk through of sorts how to mix it up pouring it in how to level it how long to let it sit to cure
Yep I can do that because I gotta fill up my new 7a block soon so we can film it
Mat and I have spoken about filming this in the past but we just never got around to it. I'm actually interested in learning the secrets and tricks myself.
Great video. I've had plenty of 4ages 16v and 20v. the last one was a blacktop 20v in a 1977 ke30, very good combo, 120km in second.
I was wondering your thoughts on 2zzge my friends have Mr-s track cars, little mod for the performance.
Thanks mate
Fondness for 4age since the 90's ,ive currently gone for a 20v blacktop and relive my youth and love my 4age. Yes its an acquired taste but a k swap isnt be all end all.
Yeah man I love them all I just have a 4age in my car atm 😅
4a its a hard strong engine nothing to worry abouts others he do very good and love boost also the head flow its great in my opinion if your engine goes there without to much spending money stay there
1J is so heavy. thats just stupid. The fun about an E chassis is the lightweight.
Depending on your goals it might work, there's a guy in the states who does multiple 2j swaps into ae86's but he builds dedicated drag cars.
As I said in this video there is a guy here in Australia who pulled it off in a ke70 but it really isn't for me.
I think maybe you guys rev your 4A's quite a bit higher because I only spin my built up 4AGZE to around 7800rpm and my aluminum pulley has worked great for years. I dont really fear breaking a crankshaft at all.
Yeah harmonics tend to come in around 8000rpm 1st wave and they get worse the further you go I like hi rpm so damper is critical for me
@@mtperformanceengines3508
are aftermarket harmonic balancers that much better over oem?
Is it worth having a 40mm rod journal 4age crank repaired (PO ran car with knock and one journal is out of round 1mm). Or do I go find a used 42mm crank and build from there?
The crank will be cracked for sure bro I recommend a new crank and Barry at MRP in newzeland can sort you out with a brand new crank I suggest hitting him up
One engine swap that may fit the stock AE86 engine bay well, but I haven't seen done, is the 1zz / 2zz. If you read the SAE paper one the 1zz, it is smaller and lighter than the 4age. Stock 1zz valves are the same size as Atlantic valves. Some zz engines have been converted to rwd and installed in clubman style kit cars. I think they use the Ford Type 9 gearbox.
I read that SAE paper. The ZZ engine family was high tech for the time, especially compared to the A series engines. If it were my money, I'd go with the 2ZZ-GE just because it's the more sporting engine, though that valve lift changeover is a bit abrupt.
Niteparts are doing a RWD kit for a 2ZZ-GE to i think a J160 gearbox. They had an update recently on Instagram.
My first car was a celica with a 2zz engine and I crashed it like a noob, I still have the wreck sitting in my dads front yard, the car is useless but I might find a use for that engine one day.
Love these videos you guys are putting out. I’d love to see you guys talk through price brackets to build a 4age. What an oem rebuild costs, 10k, 15k, dream build etc. just to give us punters an idea of how much a mild street engine costs vs an all out 7a/9a mrp monster
I like this idea because a lot of people don't realise what it takes to do an engine build properly.
@NEVER-LIFT I HAVE A 87 Toyota Hero pick-up genuine Japanese import im in Thailand its got a 1Y in it , how would a good 4age go in it but i like the idea of Webber's carbs the cars for the street, many say put a 1j or 2 j but it's a room factor and don't really want to butcher the firewall, what are your thought's on this please
S Series engine may be easier as it would bolt to your gearbox with a slight mod
Hey matt, would love another chat about the differences between, K20, Beams (5th gen) and SR20VE (pros/cons)
I have an sr20ve head and a k20 head at home I can do a video with niko using visual examples 😊
@@mtperformanceengines3508 this will be awesome.
Random: Why dont you use a K Series. Me: Im not a honda F**, Im a toyota boy
I don't have loyalty anywhere as my daily driver is a honda dc2R, if I like a car that's it I just like the car or the motor 😊
After hundreds of people ask the same question you can sometimes develop a short fuse 😂
3sgte then
@@johnkrstyen low key waiting for hsk to make to Corolla 3 cylinder awd a create motor
Being into cars isn't about "best car". I have a 90s shitbox I want to keep for ever.
It isn't best by any measure except my like for it :)
@getahanddown 100% if I like a car or a motor I just do if I don't then I don't hate the brand I just don't like that model
Seems like everyone here agrees with this statement 100%
Great video, I've learnt a lot from you lads. Last year I built a 7a to use in my daily ke70. It's driven everyday, reliable etc. I'd like some tips on making the 7a (stock smallport head, 11.4 comp, arp rod bolts,.lightweight fly) rev a little happier? Keen on your suggestions!
You want more rev happy then put on one of my dampers and rev her up, and put a 4.77 diff gear 😎
@@mtperformanceengines3508 cheers! That'll be my go to next
Great discussion.
A question I ask myself when thinking about modernising my ke30 with a built 4age turbo. Making 200kw today but running old tech ECU, old turbo tech, old gearbox W-series.
Should I fit a K20 turbo and make the same power or more with less stress on the motor??
Replacement engines are cheap, parts off the shelf are plenty full, well documented and kits to fit most cars, and require minimal modification to get the same power.
The engine is much taller so fitting into a KE could be a challenge though.
Don't be fooled by the costs if you sit down and budget the builds the k swap could cost more it's the hidden costs that can burn you in the end
Guarantee the people who rag on the 4AGE don't own an 86. I didn't buy my 86 for raw power, I bought it because it's cool. I bought my JZX110 MARK II for easy power.
I think that if the haters just had a go driving a 4a powered 86 they would change their tone pretty quickly
I’m curious about your opinion, is the stock crank pulley still decent after 40 years, or at least safer than a lightweight ebay pulley?
I'd say it's safer but not ideal, I ran an old small port pulley for a couple of years before I upgraded to my ATI. I think the lightweight pulleys are a bad idea.
toyota A series engine start at 1980 , honda K series start at 2000 . why compare engine 20 years apart from each other ..........
@katsumoto2013 because we didn't make the comparison we get told "why don't you k swap" or "4age is shit why waste your money on an old engine like that" so we are talking in response to these comments
You answered the question with your question 🤣
@@NEVER-LIFT the irony is those in the comment dont realize that
Would you guys consider the Techno Toy Tuning Crank Pully one of the kind that would break you engine? Because Ironically I put one of those on my 4a and it blew after I did.
We’ve spoken about it multiple times, we’d never run one
I have a Supercharged AW11 that is about to hit 300k km. I plan on rebuilding it within the next 6 months, what mods if any do you recommend doing for a weekend car? I, looking for more reliability than high HP. Is it worth it to rebuild the SC or should I go turbo/engine swap?
Definitely rebuild the 4agze. Higher c/r, cams and aftermarket ecu will give you some more poke and retain reliability. Though the sc12 is getting old, cannot be rebuilt and will limit hp output.
If you're looking for a bit more power turbo is the way to go. I love superchargers, but the old sc12 has it's limits and there's not much room to fit a better/larger blower. The right size turbo you can still retain the low down grunt the supercharger offers but pick up more mid range and top end.
My favorite street/weekend build was with a tiny garret gt2554r @18psi on a stock 4agze with smallport 4agze 8.9:1 pistons. Made 197rwhp and 315nm torque with a mild tune, was reliable AF and hell fun to drive, there was basically no lag. I drove that setup daily, drove it across Australia and back, did various track events etc.
I have had a KE with a 20 valve & currently have a JZX90 with 1jz and alsoi GC8 WRX. The 20 valve was easily the most fun car. WRX is fun, but im worried its going to break evry time I wind it out.
@technology42069 yeah I feel the same way about my 20v, the confidence it gives me to bash limiter is not like anything else I even worry about my dc2r b18c bashing limiter compared to my 20v turbo lol
@mtperformanceengines3508 I get the same feeling in my s15
Can you describe cost to make 4a in budget and extreme build?
A couple of people have asked for this so I think we'll have to touch on it, Thanks for the idea.
Eversince i saw initial d and tofu man was putting a formula Atlantic engine into his ae86 ive
been hooked.
@fuzzayd4601 yeah bunta put a group A motor into the ae86 in initial D it was a 20v silvertop, the formula Atlantic motors are a bit different but even I made that mistake early on
One of my favourite scenes is when Takumi gets his 86 back for the first time, the growl of the throttles is spot on as he takes off
I have the Subaru EA82 MPFI engine. Just has a pulley from memory. Should I track down harmonic balancer from a EA82T before I refresh the motor?
@@MQN8R yes for sure
@@mtperformanceengines3508Managed to score a harmonic balancer off a retired turbo motor for my NA motor. Is there somewhere in Aus that reconditions balancers?
Hi, im planing to do a engine swap on my corolla AE92. Currently i have in my mind for a 2zzge swap or a 4AGE blacktop swap. Im planing to use this car as a daily as well as occasionally at the drag strip. What would be the ideal swap should i must follow. Any ideas about the 2zzge engine reliability compared to 4age black top?
@chathuradhashashmika4576 2zz for sure bro it has vtech basically and it's more modern with 2ltr and they are cheap as compare to 4age bt20v
@@mtperformanceengines3508 how about the reliability of the engine bro. I heard the block is aluminum in it. Any common issues that i might expect?
I have a JZX with td06 1J and AE86 with NA 4ag, i drifted both... i would much much rather work on the 4ag, sell the JZX and get my AE86 back.
Drifting is something I'd like to get into in the future and I've heard multiple people say that drifting a NA 4age powered car is a ton of fun and far cheaper on fuel and tyres compared to the bigger turbo cars
i was offended on the title, might be the american trend infecting my brain.
The text on thumbnail/video picture nearly lost a subscription from me... But i know it was in jest. Hahahaaa.. 4ag ftw!
I actually lost subscribers due to this video 😅
But I have been experimenting with different things to try and get more reach. I guess you gotta play the game sometimes.
Look you will get coments on how you should put a honda or some sort of engin. You have 86.the 4age is what you wantToyota for toyota.
I'm with you 50% I think build the car to suit your needs and budget, if you can afford to get the results you want from the motor you want then do it but If you got a ke70/ae86 and an LS v8 motor there then put together what you got
Hey guys. New guy here. I may have a levin ae101 “gifted” to me that has a silvertop. I’ve been looking at a lot of videos about the engine. The build possibilities and capabilities. One question I have is; Everyone seems to agree that the k series/sr20 etc are a better alternative for power, but If you turbo the 4A-GE and then shoot for let’s say around 300hp. Isn’t it going to be equal or even better? Also love your videos keep up the great work!!
can you do a updated videos addressing comments. thanks
K series massive vibrations from the position of the engine mounts. toyota (4age) is always smooth.
Our friend Mirl has a 4a in his Atlantic race car and that thing vibrates like crazy. I guess that's a pretty extreme example though
I like the 4age, granted it is not powerful by modern standards. But I did crack the headers a month or so ago. Welded and have back up headers on deck.
Spot on boys
4ag ‘s maintenance is ridiculously easy to perform , great power output and replacement parts are cheap…….whats not to like? My fav engine is the Nissan sr20….. the bastard child of performance jdm 4 cyl
I agree 100%
I was also pleasantly surprised when Mat explained that if I upgrade the cams in my sr20 that I don't need to adjust the tappet settings like a 4age, you just drop them in
Well no shit the k series is better than the 4age the fucking 4age is old as shit lmfao. I would hope a newer engine is far superior to a 30+ year old engine lmfao
Imagine comparing a 4age to a motor 10 years older than it I guess its an unfair comparison but it's funny the 4age is still being used today I wonder if it's because it's a good platform to use
It's funny the k series is only good for 600hp before the bores split so you gotta fix that fuckup with darton MID sleves, I wonder if a 4age needs sleves to make 600hp I guess we will see with mine if it makes 800hp on no sleves
@@mtperformanceengines3508 well said SIR!
3rz?
Lol