Love these engines, been playing with them for 25 years. The port from the block to the head on the smallport blocks (which you simulated on your 20 valve block) is actully a crankcase vent. But also works well for another head oil drain to block. Awseome build, will be subscribing on this baby!
Please keep making these videos. I've learned so much about 4ag from just this 1 video. I'm now very interested to install my 4ag 20v into my ae92 trueno with a little boost.
Awesome. I've been sitting on a Silvertop I used to have in my 1st gen tercel, slowly getting bits and bobs for it. Fell in love with Toyota's because of the 4A. Subbed and looking forward to future vids on this. =D
I’d like to build a 4agtte in a sense, I’d like to use the 20v head and probably stoke it all the way out to 2L if I can, purely a hypothetical dream engine for a dream drift build
Good to see the focus the black top 20v, I have alot of questions in my head regarding turbo charging builds. Many people said to me these engines just blow under boost which I did not believe. Would it wise fill the steam holes for a circuit endurance car when high temps are more consistent for long periods regarding a high hp 20v engine?
The standard studs require the two 90’s because they are made of a different metal to the arp studs your essentially stretching the standard studs to spec best to follow their procedure because it’s tried and tested. ARP studs are reusable where the factory studs are not I would recommend just going ARP from the start as they are just better and worth the extra cost
Uff Amazing Guys! one question How much horsepower can a 4AGE 20v block handle? with 4AGZE pistons and forged rods? and 16v bigport cylinder head? can i search 300-320whp? without concern?
Can you ask your man if his engine stands are home made out of an industrial electric motor worm drive reduction gearbox with handle instead of the electric motor? Searching Varvel appears to support that as their product range doesn't appear to include high end engine stands. Nice work, if so. I shall steal that idea as it's vastly superior to wrestling with engines on stands, particularly large/heavy ones.
So Mat has done this setup plenty of times in the past and he’s certain that it works, he’s confident enough to run the fire ring system on customer engine’s and he’s doing it because he plans to run high boost. Fire ring system will cop a lot more boost than a conventional gasket without boost leaks. Also the high boost is the reason he’s running such massive head studs 👍
I'm curious. What is better? This engine or the 2jze gte? I'm going between which engine to put into my car. Wanting at least 700+ WHP. I was set on using the 2jz gte engine and building it up but I love how this engine sounds but I just don't know which engine would be better
Straight line and using a shop use the 2j. I wouldn't recommend doing this type of build unless you are absolutely familiar with the motor and it's common issues. 4age is an amazing motor but you'll have a lot less work making 800 reliable in a 2j.
which kind of engines is it ae101 silvertop and tell me about modification done in it to revalup to 800 hp and what rpm you had with this engines over 11000 rpm
Sorry for the late reply I decided to wait till I spoke to Mat because it’s a very new system to me and he said “fire rings are custom to suit the application and can only be made to suit the current bore size”
This is cool to see, BUT its hard to beat building a K24. It makes twice the torque and does 600whp on stock internals. 4AGE is a classic engine, but its like building a flathead V8 to make half the power of a LS1...
I seriously considered a K24 but I just have a love for the 4age/7age and Mat is a 4age guru and I think he's even crazier than I am lol I also think part of the beauty of the car scene is that there's no rules. If everyone just did the sensible thing it would get pretty boring. Its also kinda pointless building ke70's and ae86's when there's plenty of better chassis options but here I am messing around with a solid rear axel and macpherson strut lol
I really like your engine man, knows his stuff, great to listen to. I will for sure be watching the others in this series. However he's 100% wrong about the cam angle sensor optical setup. The effect IS timing variability so it doesn't matter that he's wrong with respect to the rest of his explanation, but it's wrong. What's actually going on there is freeplay in the drive to the CAS and stretch/slop in the belt, and resonances loading those things up in a non linear way at higher RPM. This afflicts basically every cam-mounted sensor on every engine, not just the RB. If you want precise timing you have to read the crank, and even there, in extreme applications, the crank can flex and the timing at the sensor isn't necessarily what the cylinders are seeing. Engines at the limit are fascinating things :-) Watching a little further, about the 12 on the crank and 1 on the cam thing, that's all good and plenty precise where you need it (cranking) and plenty stable everywhere else (his motivation), but it cannot be taken too far and the reason for that is similar to the reason for doing it in the first place. The single cam tooth is moving around, back and forward, all over the place, and if you go too high in the tooth count on the crank the cam sync can move back and forward between two teeth and you are then off in timing by 360/N where N is the crank tooth count. The practical limit to that is around 40 or so crank teeth, maybe a bit higher, but not up around 100, that's too much and nets problems. Incidentally, it's not just the 2J that has that system, the 1UZFE also has the teeth on the crank. And the 4AGE runs the same exact system, but not crank mounted, dizzy mounted, and the same issues can occur there. Compounding the slop issue with the CAS and dizzy systems is the ECU in question. Can you please ask him which ECU was in use when those RBs were dying from timing variation due to CAS resonance? Most aftermarket ECUs do not decode those RB CAS signals properly at all and often use replacement disks in them and that has even more issues as the second sensor is ONLY designed for high tooth count counting and has a diffraction grating built into it. So depending on stock disk or replacement, and how the stock disk was being used if it was being used, it could have been the fault of the ECU, not the CAS, potentially. But same bad-timing symptom, so... :-)
The ecus that where and have been tested are motec,emtron,syvecs,haltech,microtech,life and bosch so it's not an ECU fault it's the sensor and this has been tested on all the motors I build that hold and continue to break world records current being a 6.7@217MPH in a full street GTR r32 The crank trigger fixed the issues if you can break that record on a factory CAS please show me and I will stand corrected but the time board won't lie and you personally have to beat it before calling me out on my research and development
@@mtperformanceengines3508 Again, the net effect of "wrong timing" and "timing variability" is correct and moving to a crank trigger eliminates that and allows you to get max output from a given physical setup. Not questioning that. Questioning your incorrect description of what's happening inside the sensor. This is a sensor I know well and have written code against and the things you describe simply do not happen at any RPM, period. What does happen is forward back resonance resulting in timing inaccuracy. Just like every other cam-mounted sensor on every engine. Not calling out your R&D where you correctly identified bad timing as a contributing factor and fixed it, well done. Calling out your terrible explanation. That terrible explanation is not alone. Seems when you're out of your depth you don't stop and instead make stuff up, pretty entertaining and sounds good, but isn't right :-D
@@mtperformanceengines3508 I'll add this: The software I've written to read that signal would not allow the engine to continue to run if what you said were true. It would cut and resume when the problem went away as RPM fell naturally after loss of power and fuel/ignition. And I can tell you 100% first hand that any other way of reading that signal is wrong and dangerous and thus if all of those ECUs continued letting the engine run thought that then either you're wrong (I know this to be true) or they all have bad dangerous implementations (this could also be true). You're an expert in engine building and an accomplished tuner. I'm an expert in engine control with specific first hand knowledge on the RB sensor system and how best to handle it, how it actually works, how it doesn't, and what that means with respect to your comments in the video. Trust me, I know what I'm doing.
Not sure I understand your question but he is using a 20v But Mat did mention somewhere that the 16v 4age’s have more valve spring options so you can run higher boost and rpm We still like all 4age’s here👍
Subbed.
yo, you guys are here?
This is huge! Well deserved Niko
Sick wun cuz
THUNDER! THUNDER!
James?
As someone who owns a fully built 4age, sitting in a Tom's Ae111 i was absolutely goober smiling at 652whp. 800+ is a wet dream. Great job Matt
Matt should be known as Mr. 4AGE! this dude can teach a full college course on the engine itself!
#SELF🎓
Love these engines, been playing with them for 25 years. The port from the block to the head on the smallport blocks (which you simulated on your 20 valve block) is actully a crankcase vent. But also works well for another head oil drain to block. Awseome build, will be subscribing on this baby!
Cheers brother 👍
This video had me glued to my seat. Matt has a stupid amount of knowledge on these engines. Should be an awesome series man. Keep em coming👌
Yeah thanks man I plan on doing plenty more work with Mat in the future 👍
Matt your a God of 4age's love the vids guys
It's a big help watching them, I'm about to recon my black top for 99 trueno
Sweet
thats mental! willing to see more about it!
best wishes guys!
Thanks mate 😄
Please keep making these videos. I've learned so much about 4ag from just this 1 video. I'm now very interested to install my 4ag 20v into my ae92 trueno with a little boost.
Yeah I plan to, stay tuned 👍
You are the Bill Sherwood of you tube. 4A-G!
I’m sure you’re referring to Mat, I just point a camera at him, edit and post the videos lol
:)
Old timer!!!
4AG sings and inspires. Unique to its roots, sounds and robust bouncing off the tach
Excellent video! Thanks so much for taking the time to record this!
Awesome. I've been sitting on a Silvertop I used to have in my 1st gen tercel, slowly getting bits and bobs for it. Fell in love with Toyota's because of the 4A. Subbed and looking forward to future vids on this. =D
That's awesome thanks man
definitely sick information, definitely will have to try these
Can't wait to see it done 🤞850 hp
Hope so should be fun
So cool both Billzilla and Donut commented! Subbed
yeah pretty cool a couple of legends found there way here
Wow!! Awesome content!! Matt is a master!!!
I’d like to build a 4agtte in a sense, I’d like to use the 20v head and probably stoke it all the way out to 2L if I can, purely a hypothetical dream engine for a dream drift build
sounds awesome
Very good engine and very good teaching information
Very good feedback 👍
Nice job mi boy
Please document every detail of this. I'm looking forward it. I'm new to your channel.
I intend to, Mat’s set up is too cool to not share with everyone
Some good info here.
Good to see the focus the black top 20v, I have alot of questions in my head regarding turbo charging builds. Many people said to me these engines just blow under boost which I did not believe. Would it wise fill the steam holes for a circuit endurance car when high temps are more consistent for long periods regarding a high hp 20v engine?
I have filled the steam holes but I also run liquid intelligence 115 and run e85 fuel so temps are not really an issue
This is absolute gold.
Can you torque the stock head studs to 80lbs also? If not what will you recommend in place of the two 90 degree turns?
The standard studs require the two 90’s because they are made of a different metal to the arp studs your essentially stretching the standard studs to spec best to follow their procedure because it’s tried and tested.
ARP studs are reusable where the factory studs are not I would recommend just going ARP from the start as they are just better and worth the extra cost
Great project ... hoping to see an update on This build ..
Coming soon man I'm working on it between projects
holy shit this guy is well informed
sure is, every time I talk to him I learn something new
great info. thanks
Thanks man, Mat is a smart lad that’s for sure
Uff Amazing Guys! one question How much horsepower can a 4AGE 20v block handle? with 4AGZE pistons and forged rods? and 16v bigport cylinder head? can i search 300-320whp? without concern?
You are like the Bill Sherwood of you tube.
There's only one of me! :)
Mr Sherwood got say much respect to you. Can not overstate how valuable your web site is.
1986 MR2 Aw11 owner
@@WinstonSmith1997 - Ta mate, I really need to do a BIG update soon. It's been far too long!
So I can get more horsepower by putting concrete in my engine. Got it. But will it improve my fuel mileage too?
hahahah no.
i have a question for matt its not pertaining to the 4age if you half fill a 3sgte block with cement how much more power can it handle
Hey, nice info about using 1/2 inch headstuds.
Any info on part numbers for that conversion? Or, do you sell them through MT Performance?
Yeah best to message Mat’s Insta or Facebook @mtperformanceengines
Can you ask your man if his engine stands are home made out of an industrial electric motor worm drive reduction gearbox with handle instead of the electric motor? Searching Varvel appears to support that as their product range doesn't appear to include high end engine stands. Nice work, if so. I shall steal that idea as it's vastly superior to wrestling with engines on stands, particularly large/heavy ones.
How the F.........u got 800hp on that 4 cylinder 😱😎
With a precision 6766 turbo and alot of boost pressure
Why Fire Ring instead of just SS O Ring? With copper head gasket for the street, will have (maybe) coolant dripping issues.
So Mat has done this setup plenty of times in the past and he’s certain that it works, he’s confident enough to run the fire ring system on customer engine’s and he’s doing it because he plans to run high boost.
Fire ring system will cop a lot more boost than a conventional gasket without boost leaks.
Also the high boost is the reason he’s running such massive head studs 👍
What kinda of concrete is this that he’s talking about ?
Moroso hard block
I'm curious. What is better? This engine or the 2jze gte? I'm going between which engine to put into my car. Wanting at least 700+ WHP. I was set on using the 2jz gte engine and building it up but I love how this engine sounds but I just don't know which engine would be better
two very different engines, it all depends on your application
Straight line and using a shop use the 2j. I wouldn't recommend doing this type of build unless you are absolutely familiar with the motor and it's common issues. 4age is an amazing motor but you'll have a lot less work making 800 reliable in a 2j.
which kind of engines is it ae101 silvertop and tell me about modification done in it to revalup to 800 hp and what rpm you had with this engines over 11000 rpm
blacktop 20v ae111 and lots of modification, video coming soon of the full build very soon i start to assemble in 3 weeks
Where do I sign up for the apprenticeship ???
Hit that subscribe button 😎 😂
Do you think it's possible to run the 1st overbore (81.5mm) and the fire rings at the same time?
Sorry for the late reply I decided to wait till I spoke to Mat because it’s a very new system to me and he said “fire rings are custom to suit the application and can only be made to suit the current bore size”
Can you please put batteries in that clock 😉🔋
This is cool to see, BUT its hard to beat building a K24. It makes twice the torque and does 600whp on stock internals. 4AGE is a classic engine, but its like building a flathead V8 to make half the power of a LS1...
I seriously considered a K24 but I just have a love for the 4age/7age and Mat is a 4age guru and I think he's even crazier than I am lol
I also think part of the beauty of the car scene is that there's no rules. If everyone just did the sensible thing it would get pretty boring.
Its also kinda pointless building ke70's and ae86's when there's plenty of better chassis options but here I am messing around with a solid rear axel and macpherson strut lol
This comment will be funny to come back to after pikes peak 😅
Oh wow an engine that is 20 years newer is better than one from the 80s who woulda thought.
I really like your engine man, knows his stuff, great to listen to. I will for sure be watching the others in this series. However he's 100% wrong about the cam angle sensor optical setup. The effect IS timing variability so it doesn't matter that he's wrong with respect to the rest of his explanation, but it's wrong. What's actually going on there is freeplay in the drive to the CAS and stretch/slop in the belt, and resonances loading those things up in a non linear way at higher RPM. This afflicts basically every cam-mounted sensor on every engine, not just the RB. If you want precise timing you have to read the crank, and even there, in extreme applications, the crank can flex and the timing at the sensor isn't necessarily what the cylinders are seeing. Engines at the limit are fascinating things :-) Watching a little further, about the 12 on the crank and 1 on the cam thing, that's all good and plenty precise where you need it (cranking) and plenty stable everywhere else (his motivation), but it cannot be taken too far and the reason for that is similar to the reason for doing it in the first place. The single cam tooth is moving around, back and forward, all over the place, and if you go too high in the tooth count on the crank the cam sync can move back and forward between two teeth and you are then off in timing by 360/N where N is the crank tooth count. The practical limit to that is around 40 or so crank teeth, maybe a bit higher, but not up around 100, that's too much and nets problems. Incidentally, it's not just the 2J that has that system, the 1UZFE also has the teeth on the crank. And the 4AGE runs the same exact system, but not crank mounted, dizzy mounted, and the same issues can occur there. Compounding the slop issue with the CAS and dizzy systems is the ECU in question. Can you please ask him which ECU was in use when those RBs were dying from timing variation due to CAS resonance? Most aftermarket ECUs do not decode those RB CAS signals properly at all and often use replacement disks in them and that has even more issues as the second sensor is ONLY designed for high tooth count counting and has a diffraction grating built into it. So depending on stock disk or replacement, and how the stock disk was being used if it was being used, it could have been the fault of the ECU, not the CAS, potentially. But same bad-timing symptom, so... :-)
The ecus that where and have been tested are motec,emtron,syvecs,haltech,microtech,life and bosch so it's not an ECU fault it's the sensor and this has been tested on all the motors I build that hold and continue to break world records current being a 6.7@217MPH in a full street GTR r32
The crank trigger fixed the issues if you can break that record on a factory CAS please show me and I will stand corrected but the time board won't lie and you personally have to beat it before calling me out on my research and development
@@mtperformanceengines3508 Again, the net effect of "wrong timing" and "timing variability" is correct and moving to a crank trigger eliminates that and allows you to get max output from a given physical setup. Not questioning that. Questioning your incorrect description of what's happening inside the sensor. This is a sensor I know well and have written code against and the things you describe simply do not happen at any RPM, period. What does happen is forward back resonance resulting in timing inaccuracy. Just like every other cam-mounted sensor on every engine. Not calling out your R&D where you correctly identified bad timing as a contributing factor and fixed it, well done. Calling out your terrible explanation. That terrible explanation is not alone. Seems when you're out of your depth you don't stop and instead make stuff up, pretty entertaining and sounds good, but isn't right :-D
@@mtperformanceengines3508 I'll add this: The software I've written to read that signal would not allow the engine to continue to run if what you said were true. It would cut and resume when the problem went away as RPM fell naturally after loss of power and fuel/ignition. And I can tell you 100% first hand that any other way of reading that signal is wrong and dangerous and thus if all of those ECUs continued letting the engine run thought that then either you're wrong (I know this to be true) or they all have bad dangerous implementations (this could also be true). You're an expert in engine building and an accomplished tuner. I'm an expert in engine control with specific first hand knowledge on the RB sensor system and how best to handle it, how it actually works, how it doesn't, and what that means with respect to your comments in the video. Trust me, I know what I'm doing.
Will he be using a block girdle or ladder caps?
No, but he probably will if he feels he needs it in the future
May I ask a question? Why not use a 20v instead of a 16v?
Not sure I understand your question but he is using a 20v
But Mat did mention somewhere that the 16v 4age’s have more valve spring options so you can run higher boost and rpm
We still like all 4age’s here👍
Where do I get this fire rings system?
It’s a custom system Mat puts together himself
Proper!!! 🤤
Will you use crank girdle?
No he’s not
What kind of epoxy is used in the block ?
Great work on your videos .
I need info on 4agZe is it basicly same block? Ive got 4agze iny ae86. Can i use 4age exhaust manifolds?
Hey am Building a 4ag too but need some advice
what the tire size ?
195 from memory
Is it still a 1.6 at this point?
Edit - nvm, said it's still a 1600.
yes
Hey bro am from Jamaica how can I get to you I wanna build a 500-600 4age 20v how
can i have a link/contact for matt. i want some advice on a 4age20v build
You can message him on Instagram and Facebook @mtperformanceengines
Can you tell me how to install a bee r rev limiter on a 4afe
Yow bro
Hi! Hi! Does the Instagram mechanic have any?
@mtperformanceengines
@199niko199
@@NEVER-LIFT thanks!