Magic: the Gathering has a Power and Toughness Problem [CC] | Spice8Rack
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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Big thanks to:
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Music:
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Magic the gathering,Power and Toughness,mtg power and toughness,MTG Ikoria,Spice8Rack,Spice 8 rack Power and toughness,Spice 8 Rack Pig,Magic the Gathering Pig,Magic the Gathering Story,Magic the Gathering Design,Magic the Gathering problem,commanders quarters,wild boar,wild boars,boar,Susan, I'm with two versions of Timmy on the roof of this building and I need a good question to ask which only the REAL Timmy would know,boars,ludonarrative
Huh never noticed how square your face is,
Reminds me of minecraft, those were good memories thank you
FUCKING LMAO
@@Spice8Rack Good chinline
@@Spice8Rack that beard makes you look like that Chad guy in black and white too
"those were good memories" lmaooo
@@Spice8Rack Don't worry, there are more of us out there. Steve head solidarity.
15 flying squirrels can’t beat Emrakul. They can only slow her down. She shuffles back in, waiting to return while the squirrels just die. Also, why is nobody pointing out that most 1/1 rats have deathtouch, and therefore 1 flying rat is just as effective as 15 squirrels.
Thank you for asking the real questions
Spice 8 Rack I do try
Maybe because Emrakul is not inmune to the diseases the rodent carries.
typhoid is no joke even interdepartmental horrors are not safe
15 flying squirrels can’t beat Emrakul, he has Annihilator 6. You need 21 flying squirrels
Oko’s knife slowly getting bigger until he is just holding the full set is amazing
Owen Slinn Yes!!! 🤣🤣🤣
That made me giggle so much lolol
I thought this was a joke at first, which made that part of the video even funnier! XD
never even noticed oh my god
It took me longer than it should have to notice the changing knives.
Here’s a bigger question, how dose arcades make walls fight? How do walls fight, by falling on people? These are the questions we need answered.
Lore explanation: Arcades is a FANTASTIC motivator.
Spice 8 Rack imagine a walking up to a wall. Suddenly a dragon yells at it “attack!” Suddenly the wall falls on you.
Arcades actually has a lot of flat trolleys and he puts the walls on them and then uses his great strategic mind to make sure he always has the higher ground and then pushes them at his opponents. It actually makes a lot of sense
I like the idea the abzan does with walls and literally puts the entire thing on wheels and roll it out to attack.
If I remember correctly there is a old blue wall (which is a gate) that get destroyed when it gets flying
One thing to note: The pigs created by Curse of the Swine are (most likely) trained Soldiers turned into boars. So in reality these creatures are far more deadly und skilled as they seem
So what you are saying is that the only thing holding back Earth-pigs is training?
@@Gabriel64468 Is it? Yeah I guess it is, and it makes total sense. Imagine hoards of fully armored boars, with the intelligence of a veteran and enhanced power given to them by the fortune of being transformed into an animal.
Give me 300 of them and they will stand and take on any enemy who dares to threaten Sparta ähhh Theros
@@sonofkvothe8313 isn't that the "racist" description of the typical orc?
@@falscher2 What? No?
@@dylanadams9465 Yes it is, intelligence of man, strength of a beast.
"What is in these pastries, how are these elks so massive?"
Homeboy has clearly never seen a moose.
moose aren't animals, they're forces of nature
@Dottoman 共匪 And cars are 2/2 Given Moose collision track records.
@Dottoman 共匪 I mean, moose can derail a freight train or stop an 18 wheeler in its tracks, so depending what power you would give to a fully loaded diesel train moving at 200 km/h the moose toughness is at least that.
Everyone know “moose” are just meat laden tanks set up as part of the Canadian Homeland Defense Program
Mooses are very efficient at putting your name on obituaries.
why forget 2/2 citizen?... train alĺ your life to become a soldier... and a 1/1...
OH SHIT YEAH I forgot about that lmao
This one is easy: THE POWER OF THE PEOPLE
Magna Carta
@@TheRoland19111 I mean, the game established years ago that a single creature can represent multiple in-universe creatures.
Bluecho4 Exactly, one of the first mtg cards I ever got was Durkwood Boars
Brushwag has no respect for social distancing, therefore giving it trample
I feel we are watching this man descent into madness.
I can confirm that is what is happening.
the unraveled series called, it joined olly in wanting to be credited.
Is he descending into madness or is he ascending into godhood?
And who are we to judge which way he goes?
some men just want to watch the world burn
Descent into madness is my favorite card!!! 😀
I'm super late and exactly 13:03 into the video but there's a reason why boars have showed up in countless myths and legends. They were VERY hard to kill before the advent of gunpowder. and still with it. A hunting party killing a boar was a great deal and the motif has persisted into medieval fantasy card game.
Just ask Robert Baratheon.
A boar's shield, the thickened subcutaneous layer of tissue over the shoulder region, can stop bullets, depending on the angle/caliber.
Yeah, I don't think OP quite has a grasp on just how vicious a wild boar can be. I wouldn't want to take one on with just a sword.
@@artor9175they did that in gladiator arena's and many people died.
Right but the art on that token IS NOT a wild boar. It’s a normal-ass farm pig. No hairy bristles, no tusks, it’s pink. Not a boar at all.
Many people underestimate just how scary boars are. There's a reason boar hunts were usually done in large groups. That reason being that one on one, even if you killed the boar, it would probably kill you much harder. Also, many of these magical boars are probably bigger than Earth boars, so their hugeness in stats is usually justified.
This goes doubly for elk. An angry elk is a scary, scary thing that most bears don't want to mess with unless they're desperate.
Let us not forget that a single, heavily outnumbered boar slew Robert Baratheon
@@thejustlawofshamash And at least one nonfictional king died hunting them too.
Then bears gotta be 4/4's at LEAST
I thought the Oko moment was so funny, because Spice8 goes totally Garth Merangi for a solid minute there.
YES! God I'm so glad I distilled that show's vibe properly
It took me a solid second, but when the knives were swapped with the knife block, I fucking got it and laughed hard XD
I was giddy with excitement at the Oko bit. Just the entire thing, start to finish.
Alexander Hanson link please?
@@Ramsey276one ruclips.net/video/8EkN8WtFTpE/видео.html best show ever
I’m so sorry to be telling you this, but you could’ve used scryfall to determine the power and toughnesses of all the soldiers, by using the same search, but adding power = 1 and seeing how many cards it returned, then changing the number until you had all the soldiers accounted for.
This tricks would have help him keep his sanity for a bit longer
Was about to comment this, would have taken like 5 minutes.
@@benlucas3151 I feel so sorry for him
I am a nerd and I have a BI tool that can give me all such stats for every type or color or set or whatever. So it pained me even more that he did what he did... Twice.
You realise this is scripted entertainment right? He probably did that in reality and filmed it all within a day.
My Therapist: Brushwags aren't real, they can hurt you
Brushwag: 🏹🏹🪓🪓🗡🗡🏴☠️
Spice8rack: 🏳
He laughed at the brushwag
"I haven't been able to find a real world reason why boars are more powerful than soldiers" Ok, here's a thing to do, go look up Boar Spears. And why Boar Spears were absolute necessities and people still died on hunts.
Yeah, when you need a spear that's entire purpose is to be closer to a trident so that it can stop you from impaling yourself *further* to murder the spear's wielder? That's when you know you're a badass
_Exactly._
Boars are quite tough, and a charging 100lb+ animal carries a lot more force than any sword.
I think the reason why humans are weaker is cause we need to wear and use artifacts that raise our power and toughness thus then making it so humans can fight that boar
@@maxdragonslayer Tierzoo is this way good sir
@@maxdragonslayer here , here. I enjoyed this point. The 2/2 is sans gear. Now if only we couldn't put that same gear onto the boars....but I suppose that is a different problem after all isn't it?
They way my friend explained it to me when I was getting into Magic is, since you're a wizard summoning these beings across time and space, their strength is either strengthened or diminished significantly so that you may control them better and they don't try to destroy you, or so they stand a fighting chance.
Theres also just the fact, wild boars are incredibly deadly
@@benjamintoulouse7052 I thought THIS was going to be the end of the video
That's just a fancy way of saying it's a card game, so that makes sense.
@@GibusWearingMann Magic has a very interesting layer of abstraction that most games don't, where the "card game" metaphysics part of it is very explicit, at least in early lore. You are not "summoning a creature," you are "casting a creature spell" as long as it's in the stack, and that's why you're burning mana to do it. That much was solidified by 1999 and even the earlier batching feature had hints of this (implementing the formal definition of "spells").
Anything in your hand and deck is merely a thought or knowledge, understood viscerally with things like flay or hypnotic cloud, and anything on the field has become something more than a spell. More than a spell doesn't mean you have actually called the one true version of whatever you cast, however.
It's possible that getting the "real" Gideon would cost a few hundred mana, given you'd be adding another whole player to the game fighting on your behalf... everything is constrained by your understanding of the thing you're summoning and the cost you're willing to pay. This tidily solves a lot of the problems like duplicate planeswalkers cast and fighting each-other on both sides ad hoc. Frankly though, most of the planeswalker mechanic ingame was poorly thought out and a much later addition (all the way in Lorwyn). At any rate we can assume these spells are imperfect and only immitating the things the migrant planeswalkers have observed for-real, not clones of the real thing.
The most unique exception (not purely attributable to new-school card game rules convenience) is land cards, which are never spells and never have been spells. They're understood as deeper knowledge of a plane combined with the ability to claim that resource very much blurred together, or sometimes the ability to tap into a connected plane to make invasion forces. This makes a fun contrast between high mana-curve and low mana-curve decks... People using very few land are trying to sweep a plane without understanding it very well (often lending itself to the more violent colors and combinations thereof or the colorless industrial machine) while people using lots of land and ramping are trying to get in tune with the land (often lending itself to the more mystical, steadfast, or naturalist colors, or mixtures of colors that are focused on some manner of unchecked growth & assimilation). It even kind of explains why set rotations and formats happen, since younger planeswalkers wouldn't be aware of things from certain planes they've never been to, like the wild and wacky world of Dominaria while you're messing around in the sealed-off, gritty Ravnica. Older planeswalkers don't have to care because they soaked in so much elder knowledge from all around the multiverse, and it wouldn't be reasonable to pit them against more limited mages, off to Legacy or Extended (RIP) you go.
It all works together very well conceptually and can make the card game feel like an euphemism for the real mage fight happening in some far-off dimension, rather than the other way around. Contrast with Pokemon's TCG which has no conceit at all (none of the mechanics make sense together even with the universe in mind) or Yu-Gi-Oh where you are simulating ancient Egyptian God Fights or evolved versions thereof, and when you summon a monster you are literally cloning it and its real stat-line. The "why is this random toad beating over my giant firey chicken deity" problem is very, very real there, and the total abandonment of the early Yu-Gi-Oh's theming and mystical elements is more than noticeable.
Edit: I'd like to add the only other game I've seen try framing their lore exactly like this was League of Legends (100% ripping the idea from MTG, even some of the language), and they totally abandoned it for reasons that were never adequately explained. It wasn't even replaced with anything, the player isn't part of the universe any more, which is a pretty big break from the conceit of the RTS games that inspired it too. Bizarre stuff.
@@V2ULTRAKilldefinite art/mechanics disconnect. Word says boar, but art clearly depicts a domestic pig, and a relatively small one at that
I wasn’t expecting a shout out but I want to thank my Mom, my Dad and my sweet smacking skills.
GET OUT OF MY HEAD
Oh my, what a hunky brushwagg
Oh he's real all right
lol
cookie katt no
You could also explain the reason is because aside from just toughness and power is also the creature's evasive abilities. It could also be how multiple people would go out on a wild boar hunt where a group of soldiers would fight and bring back the kill. Even if a single soldier is trained to take out an enemy, they cannot predict the fight or flight of a single pig. Also a squirrel is as powerful as a soldier because last week when I tried to grab one he scratched my arm.
that's too damn deep, thank you for solving such an crucial issue
yeah everyone who ever saw a wild boar will not complain about this topic ever again. You will know why they are the 2/2 xD
Wait the answer is... Banding?
@@ich3730 Yeah man, some hunters DIE to boars
It's much weirder when a squirrel is as strong as a human soldier
@@ich3730 haha I came here to post exactly this. A wild boar should win against a man with a sword. With a spear it gets kinda 50/50, but still not the odds you want when you go hunting. There is a reason people went hunting in groups and not on their own before we had reliable guns, and even today hunters for small game have special ammo in their guns to defend against a wild boar when they have to.
Me, a normal vorthos youtuber: "Yeah Urza was actually kind of the bad guy."
Spice 8 Rack, an _absolute unit:_ "I have discovered the *MATHEMATICALLY PERFECT* boar!"
Here's my thought process: The boars you can summon are just ones that someone found and thought "Holy shit this is a massive boar, let's conscript it into my wizard army", and most wouldn't be worth summoning, whereas humans you can just talk to and convince them to join you and they're generally more reasonable and not require as much mind control magic, so it's alright if they're smaller
Teacher: Okay class, what is the pwr/tgh of the average human in MTG?
Me: I think 2/2.
Spice8Rack: WAIT! (1 bottle of gin, and 24 hours of strenuous research and math later...) He was right...it was 2/2.
*gin liquor
My Therapist: The big pig isn’t real and can’t hurt you
Me, an Akroan soldier: 💀
Nobody:
This dude’s profile picture: ONE OF THESE DAYS I’M GOING TO CHOP YOU INTO LITTLE PIECES!
@@PearlyBlues8900 ya done just made my day
Nice pfp
GET THIS MAN ON GAME KNIGHTS
GET THIS COMMENT TO GAME KNIGHTS
@@Spice8Rack Going to spam it in the comments of every game knights episode (again), brb
As much as I hate that show and its glorified overedited form (nothing personal against jlk and j.wong), it would probably bring spicey some good publicity, so I stand!
@Supreme Leader Peter overedited?
@Supreme Leader Peter it's the single channel that coveted me from a casual magic player who owned a couple of decks my friends made me to a cardboard obsessed deck builder. Overeditting to those familiar with the game translates well to players who may be new to the format or less knowledgeable on magic cards in general.
Historically boars are pretty terrifying, there is a Greek story where a group of heroes barely beat a boar.
Funny thing: Boars in real life can kill most humans in an 1v1 encounter, so MtG is actually right.
Not the most well trained fantasy Spartans, it just doesn't make sense.
Abd for sure a pig is not twice as strong as a magical Spartan boi
yes a normal human
but these are high trained soldiers with armor and swords and stuff that's even without considerating the difference of intelligence
@@valletas and these are highly trained and intelligent boars
Also I'm pretty sure Spartans had hunting parties for dangerous wild game
@@valletas you forget most boars in mtg are also magical, considerably larger than real wild boars, and have way bigger tusks
Trust me Spice, you've clearly never dealt with with a wild hog if you think it makes no sense that they can beat a soldier.
I was thinking that the whole time
Nah just stab it with a spear do it all the time while hunting em
@@jbreazy8335 or just a shotgun
They can best a soldier but they're not twice as strong, doesn't take 2 people to kill a pig
@@hentaimage95 Yeah but 1 Pig can kill 2 people.
If you wanna know why elks are so big, go visit Canada. When you see a moose face to face, you will understand.
(For all intents and purposes, all Cervidae are creature type Elk in magic)
What's up with this dude not knowing how animals work anyway? A moose absolutely stomps a normal human.
Like why would you be surprised than an elk is stronger than a human? Has spice8 ever seen an elk? Those fuckers get hit by cars and get up. Same for boars actually. Basically one would expect the average boar to be stronger than the average human. In the middle ages, whole companies went on boar hunts. Not just one person
GamerBear
It is quite obviously a magic elk.
Also the Euros are weird and call moose elk for some reason.
in Game of Throne, a character is almost killed by a boar, despite being a trained warrior.
wild hogs are no joke
Robert Baratheon? He IS killed by a boar, not almost killed by one.
Yeah, but he got fat over the years and was drunk at the time.
@@JoshuaRellick Just to add to that cersei also got her cousin to drug roberts wine he drank while on the hunt.
@@Captivename Still, Robert wouldn't hunt a boar if it wasn't a challenge. Too much pride.
But the art is a small domestic pig, not a boar.
As everyone else has said, "You seriously haven't ever looked at a real boar, have you?"
That said, your video was great! Good work!
What really annoys me in Ikoria is a TURTLE with HASTE
ruclips.net/video/2jk01HfdTaY/видео.html
0/5 but doesn't have defender do be pissing me off
Turtles are always presented as moving really slowly when they are shown on TV, but if you shrunk a human down to be shorter than a turtle, a turtle could probably movie twice as fast as the human at that size could.
@@temporarysolutions it shouldn't have defender.
"They're putting chemicals in the water that are giving the freaking turtles haste!"
*narrows eyes* that's a funny way of saying mill vs discard
Honestly, my explanation for why pig big is because green big, and if pig green:
Green = Big = Pig
There, a mathematical explanation using the transitive property of why pig big
but why do they slow down if they bleed ? Red should make them faster.
15 squirrels taking down a Eldrazi is just Squirrel Girl flexing her power from beyond the Mouse-o-shere.
Emrakul retreats from 15 squirrels, because she justly fears the might of Squirrel Girl. Squirrel Girl beat both Thanos AND Galactus. You think a mere Eldrazi stands a chance?
The part about just not needing to care about the realism in the game reminds me of how when I had just started playing I had a Rhino running around with 3 Greatswords and enchanted angel wings and my friends and I were laughing so hard as it was wrecking all the wizards, soldiers, and monsters.
I have a notable experience with flavor versus mechanics clash when one of my friends first games in Magic gathering I both bit his wall with a poisonous snake and attached a ball and chain to it giving it -1-1 then -2-2, it was fun.
If you put the ball and chain at the top then pulled on it, you'd pull the wall over
OOOOOOH that's what those numbers mean I've just been rolling dice to see how much damage each creature deals. although it seems to make more sense than what we have now
Glad 2 be an educator
ive also been wondering why they keep kicking me out of my lgs
“How am I believe that soldier kill dragon if pig kill soldier”
I just completely lost my shit there
*Pap!*
9:17 , you're welcome
The bigger issue is that training a human is apparently a debuff.
There are multiple peasant tokens that are 2/2s whereas soldiers are often 1/1s.
Furthermore, horse tokens are 5/5s, yet when you add a fully trained soldier on top to make a knight, it becomes a 2/2.
Therefore, training a human actually just debuffs them and their allies.
In fairness, I wouldn't exactly take the Crested Sunmare tokens as being representative of an average horse. Those boys are very chonky
Magic players: "The thematic aspect of the cards doesn't really fit with the practical application of the gameplay."
Me, a Yu-Gi-Oh player: "I'd like to have a turn before my opponent gets 4 negates on the board. Oh I lost ro-sham-bo, time to surrender, maybe i'll get him in game 2."
Me another yugioh player: burning abyss chains for days
Me, yet another Yu-Gi-Oh! player: Girl with big forehead says no
Oh a flat car best start drawing cars
Me, a Yu-Gi-Oh player: “oh, did you just throw away that cockroach? ok, good game. that was the right move there yeah.”
Me, an Exodia Player: I bricked so hard they're going to deck out before I get Exodia.
Huh?
Yeah I activate Battle Fader. Again.
Okay the Oko cosplay was amazing. That was the best sequence you have ever done.
Dropping a comment to please the algorithm gods, and to inform Spice8Rack that his Oko cosplay has made me thirstier than a trek through the Gobi Desert.
I thank you for your data sacrifice to The Algorithm Entity and I hope the thirst motivates you to drink lots of water!
@@Spice8Rack Though I must add that facial hair Spice is hottest Spice.
@@MrCyberGal heard.
Almost better than Mill Vs Discard
At this point I'm temped to make Mill vs Discard intentionally bad
@@Spice8Rack Just make it good and make it soon and we'll stop bothering you.
@@Spice8Rack please make it bad
@@Spice8Rack no, never make it, but start acting like it's been made and put up
at this point it wont make a differencd, its just an internal joke
**clears throat, Texas accent intensifies** come around here boy and you’ll see these damn boars is at least 2/2s no dinky sword guy gonna stand a chance.
APOCALYPSE HOG!!!
40 feral hogs
I think most city folk don't realize that wild boar are pretty big and strong, and have insanely dense bones, their skulls are almost bullet proof. You need high caliber/high velocity rounds, more so, than standard hunting riffles, to actually pierce their skulls.
@@CrypticCarbon And that's without mentioning the boars' tusks that equate to two giant mouth knives
@@Vegas242 Boars are stupid strong but it doesn't make sense that a trained soldier is only half as strong.
As someone who grew up in the middle of nowhere and had to deal with wild boars, i would not want to be on the recieving end of their rage in close combat.
Personally I LIKE low statlines. It makes for a nice sense of progression when you put down Giant Growth and your strength 1 Captain of the Guard is suddenly forty feet tall and breathing fire.
I'm 99% sure that power/toughness is relative of the plane, hence Doomgape, a 10/10 from Lowyn/Shadowmoor plane is as strong as the creature Progenitus from Alaar Plane, despite Doomgape most likely would have been a 3/3 on the Naya plane shard.
So you can't really compare Boars or Soldiers across all planes. Tho it ofc doesn't explain why Piggu's on Theros apparently are the apex predators of the plane.
And thus we come full circle.
Counterpoint: Segovia.
Also curse or swine and the soldier token are from the same plane
I can just see the planeswalker erratas now: Ajani Veangant: takes half damage from creatures from theros, 1/3 damage from creatures from Innistrad, and double damage from the Ikoria crew...
@@FanOfMostEverything Perfect answer, although we don't have many cards to reference from the plane (We still just have the 3/3 leviathan and 1/1 angel, right?) there is so little statistical room beneath the biggest thing that it seems unrealistic to even try representing anything else. Their soldiers would have to be 0/1s or something, and then we have a new issue of "why can't any of the trained warriors on this plane hurt anyone in combat ever? Why do we even have soldiers if every battle is a stalemate with zero casualties?"
It doesn't explicitly disprove the plane-relativity point but it for intents and purposes it basically does. Power and toughness must be on some sort of multiversal scale, the alternative just makes things worse.
This is me interacting with the algorithm soon after release to give the video more traction.
This is me also contributing by thanking you
I don't know how much this comment contributes to that goal but I guess it can't hurt so here it is.
This is me interacting with the algorithm soon after release to give the video more traction.
Joining the algorithm train
I too wish to contribute what I can
The real world reason is that even a trained soldier wouldn't go toe to toe with a wild boar unarmed. Giant musclebound men don't just go out inna woods and just beat up wild boars.
Wait. So the lore is...we summon men butt naked without weapons? Is that equipment is actually necessary?!?
So the idea is that everyone we summon in magic gets conjured naked?
Bold take, but I am here for it.
I need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle.
@@lukeingle5587 Considering how a basic ass bronze sword is a separate artifact in Theros, yes.
Yeah if you’re a pansy
The way that Oko's knives keep changing was really funny somehow
Notably, you included the boar tokens, but not soldier.
There's three different soldier tokens in my 2nd-hand deck
And a single boar *will* defeat a single soldier, this is easy to show through history
A: a boar is not something a soldier is trained to fight
B: the boar has a strong hide and attacks less-armored human legs
Another thing, Soldiers have a lot more cards that interact with them, and part of their whole deal is buffing a bunch of 1/1 tokens into massive armies of x/x where X is the number of soldiers you control (Serra Bless Coat of Arms)
As a fellow Arcane Zooligist , I do have some methodological problems with the way you collected your data. As you mentioned, you seem aware that certain specimins are outliers. For example the Decimater of Provinces and Ilharg are massive compared to brindle boar. But in your analysis, you did not give any value to their unique ness. You gave the single specimin of Ilharg as much effect on the final resuld as one of the hundred of thousands of brindle boar that roam across the multiverse. This, I assure, will have a large effects on the final result, as the smaller specimins are more numerous. This will change the average power toughness to more cloasly aproach 2/2, rather then the extreme standpoint that 4/3 is the average.
We can also see that the sample size of boars is infinitely smaller than the sample size for soldier giving it a much wider margin of errors.
@@Izhuark I would bring to your attention that the only recordings of infinite armies had been influenced by Planeswalker meddling, and do not reflect natural trends in the multiverse.
Right, Nessian boar is definitely an outlier, and as a good rule of thumb I'd go ahead and say any legendary creature should be considered an outlier too (e.g. Ilharg) considering their inherent uniqueness.
I was waiting for this point to be made in the video, but I'm glad I found it in the comments.
His basic problem is that magic has implicit Race Subtypes, Class Subtypes, and Modifier Subtypes; Boar is a Race (Boar Monger) and Soldier is a Class (Human Soldier) and Eldrazi and God are Modifiers (Corruption and Death-Resolution respectively)
You can't compare them; you should compare things of like specificity
We can see that Boar's don't ever have classes, currently, so we compare Boars, unmodified, to unmodified soldiers of a single race, that is Boars vs Human Soldiers shows us that a boar is around 3/2 and a Human Soldier is around 2/2 with combat tricks, and your average Human Soldier wins Fights with Boars
We can see that Soldiers are very rarely modified (at a glance I could not find any in three pages on gatherer) and Boars are often modified (beast boar, elemental boar, Eldrazi boar) and modified boars are Huge, 5/7 or so, and tend to beat unmodified Human Soldiers
Idk man, Robert Baratheon was a pretty good soldier and even he couldn’t escape.
And you know what ... his family sigil was a Stag ... A royal deer ... An elk? xD
The running joke about Sadam Hussain actually being killed by a pack of wild boars in South Park was only slightly a joke tbh. People take them down via automatic guns mounted on helicopters and it's still not enough
Traditional boar hunting spears have a cross bar so that when you stab the pig with your 8-foot lance, it doesn't just charge all the way up the length of your spear and murder you despite being impaled. Boars are a nightmare.
Wild Boars are highly dangerous, domestic pigs are not.
Read awakening of city gazi's flavor text it's supposed to be fighting an army but 9 soldiers kill it
Technically, the flavour text never specifies that it's a *big* army.
@@Spice8Rack Well, remember, most Armies have base power and toughness 0/0.
I know it's a typo but City Gazi sounds like a cool name.
had the most absolute dumb smile on my face when i thought to myself "is that clipping?" just from listening to an alarm go off
bravo and good taste fella
I wasn't expecting that, it made my day
Hey Spiceman, just wanted to say your nails look amazing. I only recently noticed that they're painted in a lot of your videos and it's a little thing that makes me feel more comfortable to express myself and confident to paint my own nails. Thank you for your spicy content
The phone alarm being Get Up was such a great moment! 👏
Was not expecting a clipping. Reference in an mtg video
As always, a beautiful journey into a problem I didn't know existed that I now will think about how any beast in the multiverse can just be dealt with a certain number of squirrels
No matter how big you get, there will always be enough squirrels to kill you
@@Spice8Rack That goes without saying. Why do you think Squirrel Girl is the Marvel Universe's mightiest hero? She has learned to weaponize the 1/1 squirrel to its fullest extent.
Squirrel Nest plus Nexus of Fate is just Groundhog Day.
Unless they're indestructible. Eldrazi are small time, what you really need is that Creepy Doll
Imagine being attacked by an army of fierce soldiers and suddenly they transform into cute little piglets who are twice as powerful.
Btw. there actually is a perfectly reasonable explanation to the power/toughness problem. In the video, Spice8Rack attempts to prove that the supposed strength of the boar tokens is illogical by comparing them to real-life pigs. However, the boars of MTG are not real-life pigs. Perhaps the pigs in the magical plane of Theros really are twice as powerful as fully-trained soldiers. This is also why the boar tokens have different power and toughness in different sets, as the strength of the boars varies from plane to plane.
Theres also the fact in real life history it has taken 3 to 4 soldiers to take down a single boar in hunting parties
Boars are pretty badass though, before guns and Helicopters, they had to use a specialized spear to take down a boar; Because if they get stabbed by a spear, rather than runaway, a Boar would simply think "If I'm dying, I'll take you down with me".
It usually takes groups of people to hunt down a boar.
Plus, they're not domesticated pigs. They're boars, which, whilst they're similar, are still quite different
5:11 I was so excited to hear Magic was going to make Godzilla cards, and so disappointed when I saw what they did.
Wasn't expecting Clipping in a MTG video. Love your stuff man, keep it up!
i don't know how i feel that i use the same clip as my alarm. like i know i'm not as clever or original as i think i am, but the internet doesn't have to come out and say it.
So what I'm hearing is that Mill and Discard are difficult to distinguish thematically because of Richard Garfield's original sin of compressing many distinct physical phenomena into a narrow and sometimes arbitrary universe of mechanical representations , which leads to a loss of realistic definition in the finished product, but that it's ultimately okay that we can't tell them apart without mechanical instruction because we suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the mechanics of a game.
Well, color me impressed, Spice 8 Rack, I wasn't sure how Emrakul and Squirrel tokens had anything to do with Mill vs. Discard, but you really pulled through on this one.
I'd argue it's only a sin from a lore perspective: from a board game design perspective you *want* to keep numbers small and simple for ease of memory of boardstate and quick computations in-game. Maybe a bit overdone in alpha, but the 1-4 scale holding most creatures and 1-10 scale holding nearly all of them actually helps gameplay go a bit smoother.
@@firebrain2991 Oh yeah, that was 100% a joke, much like the rest of the post
The scale in Alpha was very sensible, as the vid points out. There's no reason to make needlessly granular distinctions like you see in games like Yu-Gi-Oh, where a difference of 50 would basically never change the outcome of a game, yet the game burdens the player with accounting for it
@@firebrain2991 It's also an issue with the "clock". In practice the vast majority of creatures go from 1-6 Power because otherwise they'd kill the player too fast since PWs don't know how to dodge and have a measily 20 health.
I own a sword that is an identical, hand, forged recreation of a medieval knight sword, and I am an athletic person. Sometimes I go to the land behind my school to chop meats for fun. My school has a wild boar problem. If I see a boar, I run. I know from experience that even with a sword and the skill to use it, I am no match for those bastards. They are low to the ground, aggressive, and fear nothing. Clearly you have never been alone and face-to-face with a wild boar. One of them could beat an average soldier any day.
If only they had an automatic weapon to kill 30-50 in 3 minutes
This is why WotC doesn't print gun cards in MtG. It would completely ruin the meta of the card game, just as it ruined the meta in warfare.
That no one in the mtg community recognizes you as a fashion icon is criminal, tbh
I think it is important to remember that the base of the game is "magic". boars are typically green which is the form of magic most proficient in growing larger creatures. i would assume these boar creatures are only noteworthy because they are enlarged by green magic. white magic can help summon forth many creatures, but has a harder time growing them. i believe the 1/1 boar/food tokens are essentially a typical wild boar with little to no magic.
it won't solve anything, but the average boar should be a weighted average - since a common boar is ten times more common than a rare boar, and uncommon boar is thrice as common. (if we are to trust the booster rarity proportions as model of magic-world proportions). this would drive the average boar's stats closer to average human soldier stat.
That could work, but then there would be an issue if a creature type had the same card(s) printed at different rarities. While I don't believe it is an issue with boars, I would be surprised if there are no human soldiers that have been reprinted at different rarities.
Not really, following this logic token are most common and the average boar token is a 2/2 or 3/3 while human soldiers are 1/1
The brushwagg part made me laugh audibly.
I'm very glad :3 I was quite happy with that bit
And don't even get him started on how it apparently takes 3 of those same soldiers to crack open a single horseshoe crab, while that same crab somehow takes one of those soldiers down with it.
I'm so happy that you showed the pig token, that is always the example I use for whack power and toughness
Elephant gun vs. most things -> dead
Elephant gun vs. boar skull -> pissed off boar
Boars are fucking terrifying man.
Seriously, finals are so much easier with your videos, Spice, so thank you.
Best of luck with finals! And I hope finals go well!!!
"Corporate overlords"
"This video is sponsored by..."
We all gotta eat homie
If Spicy and Brian David Gilbert are ever in the same room at the same time...
... it would be pretty cool actually
I couldn't handle the erotic tension that wouldn't actually be there but I would definitely perceive
I always liked the idea that the creatures in magic aren’t actually the real creatures themselves, but a magical facsimile shaped by mana. So the reason you get larger boars is because the green mages who made them like bigger creations.
It may have been valuable to do an analysis on the rate of power and toughness to mana spent, especially given how common multiple soldiers can be created by a single card.
However I do take the point of this video.
I would like to note though, boars are really really fucking tough in real life, like you can literally shoot boars with guns and small caliber bullets have been known to bounce off of their skulls. There’s a reason why we used to hunt them with spears and not arrows and why had to get a hunting party together to take one down.
P/T is secretly a representation of how much you can safely eat of the creature
Does that mean you can eat a whole ball lightning
DjiDji if it’s ball lightning
DjiDji rather than a ball of Lightning’s shocking you to 40% health
Well, boars are actually pretty dangerous. Just ask Bobbie B
HAVE YOU EVER MADE THE 8 NED?
Have you SEEN an angry "average boar" irl? I wouldn't want to take one of those on without a few friends.
well you are not highly trained soldier with weapons and armor are you
the clipping song made me give this a 10/10
This is the first video of yours I've watched and I didn't know such entertainment was even possible. What a masterpiece.
Who’d win, the Lovecraftian ultimate destructive being of the cosmos, or one icy boi? Only the boars know.
"How can pigs be more powerful than trained soldiers?" *Puts literal godboar on equation*
Not entirely related to the video (though you did use the card in there), but my favorite piece of flavor win in the game is how Charging Badger is a 1/1 with trample. There's no (blackbordered) creature in the game that he can trample over unless he's magically enhanced or wields a bonesplitter. But he would, if he could.
There were two gamebooks called Challenge of the Magi which use the 5 colour mana pool (and 20 life total, juggernauts and other spells that are similar) which came out 6 years before MtG.
I find the art interesting, in Curse of the Swine, you have the Soldiers turned into pigs that are very bulky but the boar token have it be a relatively smaller pig. I think that it could make more sense if it had the boar token look more menacing to convey an actual feeling of historical power that a boar had than that dog sized pig.
Okay yes, but why can turning a piece of a soil 90 degrees make a big metal canon help me live longer?
Woot! New episode!!!! Much love!
Much love right back!
Meanwhile, Glissa the Traitor being a Firststrike + Deathtouch Creature:
I A M I N E V I T E A B L E
Mark Rosewater and the team making the Innistrad block had a very good understanding of this. Power and Toughness balanced by Cost and Theme to where even humans with cost 3 or more would still have human stats, but with extra abilities to reflect their advanced status. Other examples remain true to form, keeping to the 'Theme Curve' even in the face of stats higher than normal by way of 'numbers' such as in a mob or troop of said members, or even in situations and structures like 'Sanctuary Cat'. Story was elevated to a new form of art. Then Gatecrash came out with a 3/1 goblin...
with a stupid name.
"How am I to believe soldier kill dragon when pig kill soldier"
Lmfao
you were saying a lot without saying much. i hope that the next video, which will be mill vs discard, will at least teach us something about morality and philosophy.
Bold of you to assume I was saying anything at all
I see no problem with 15 flying squirrels destroying an eldritch god. That's just how squirrels be
Squirrels be wild bruh
5:10
*The Team Fortress 2 fanbase would like to know your location*
The quality of this video transcends the subject matter. You are a gem on RUclips.
love the clipping cameo in the alarm lol
You’ve never faced down a hog in the middle of a pine flat wood and it shows. Boars are terrifying and far more dangerous than some dude with a sword.
It's delightful how much overlap your audience has with hbomberguy, you can tell just by the patron names.
I consider Spice Boi to be an honourary LeftTuber myself
This isn’t mill vs discard! Wait, why am I holding this dimir deck? Why are you looking at me with such anger? No- Don’t make me say it. Please! C- c- cards in library? I’M SO SORRY AHHHH DADDY TIBALT TAKE ME BACK!
HIS HEADPHONES WERE NOT PLUGGED IN IN THAT TURN TO CAMERA MOMENT. WHAT A FUCKINGT BREAK IN IMMERSION GOD DAMN IT
THEY'RE PLUGGED INTO THE COMPUTER TOWER BELOW THE DESK, YOU CINEMA-SINS-ASS PEDANT
I just found this video and I am angered RUclips did not notify me of it's existence.