Imagine if zodiac never killed anyone but simply wrote letters taking credit for a handful of unsolved murders that he knew could never be linked to him and all of the apparent connections were merely coincidence
Yeah it’s turned into this generations Jack the Ripper the main difference being I heard they potentially have DNA in the zodiac case or I should say DNA that is potentially the zodiac And if that’s true there is a chance he gets caught with the same technique that caught the golden state killer/original Nightstalker
@@092filmz He won’t have to be alive if they’re able to use the same technique they got the Golden State killer caught that technique uses companies I do the DNA family tree like ancestry I think it’s one of the companies but there’s dozens of family tree DNA companies out there these days so all they have to do is fine close matches to a few of his relatives that drastically narrows The suspects that can be then all you have to do they start to put the pieces together the age range of relatives where they lived in the country during this time and then actually getting DNA samples from modern relatives based off all these steps it’s almost impossible for killers who leave their DNA to get away with murder going forward even if they’re not identified when they’re still alive one or two generations down the line when somebody from his family purchases one of his DNA ancestry plans it’ll pop up connected to them but it’s still a pretty big ass I heard they have some DNA samples but there’s no guarantee that it’s actually the zodiac even though it might be on zodiac letters and evidence from the letters because the zodiac could’ve got other people to lick the stamps or to actually Mail the letters for them so that is one of the best ways possible further down in the comments I also wrote that the zodiac is such an eager testicle person that I believe if he still alive that he’s probably left letters and evidence in his will that will be able to link them to all the killings killings even if he doesn’t get the credit for the zodiac killings in life he wants his name attached to it for history I almost see no way based off of his personality make up but this isn’t the case so based off of this there’s only a couple other ways I could’ve gone why we don’t know yet is that he died very close to win the zodiac killing stop so he died suddenly didn’t have a chance to put these steps into motion quite frankly at the time probably wasn’t done with the zodiac killings or that he has died recently but he gave evidence and letters to somebody close and made them promise not to open it up for a certain time Is it just a couple theory’s that pop into my head when I think about this it’s all speculation of course
@@092filmz if anyone in your family ever had their DNA submitted they can find you. It’s quite freaky honestly. If they had Jack the rippers DNA and his remaining relative submitted theirs they could identify him.
I have thought this, but I now think the canonical 5 and most of the letters are the same person. The attacks were progressively more daring/risky and the gaps between them shorter and shorter, then he almost got caught at the Stine scene and cooled off/just sent letters. The attack at Berryessa stands out because the MO is so different, so you'd think maybe copycat, but then he wrote on the car door and the handwriting/phrasing is basically zodiac. I just think it's a bit of stretch to think copycat would copy writing, but completely different MO.
Zodiac sent in a piece of Paul Stine's shirt, so we know that he killed Paul Stine, but I don't know of anything he did or said that would prove that he committed any of the other killings. Doerr is not a strong suspect. The Doerr theory is based on fanciful speculation that Zodiac published fanzines. There is no evidence that he actually did that.
Zodiac was most likely a cop or ex cop. He used tactics similar to the golden state killer who was also a cop who had specialised training in investigating burglaries. He threw out false information to brian hartnell about being from a prison in montana. He claimed crimes that wasnt his in his letters. He wore the hood in the attack on hartnell and shepherd to hide his identity because of his earlier mistake in letting megeau see his face and survive and also because the executioner hood would help spread terror if hartnell or shepherd survived to describe it. His main goal was to make as many people fear him as possible. I think he stopped killing after paul stine because he wasnt nearly caught that night and it spooked him into stopping but he still wrote some more letters afterwards to scratch his itch of terrorising the community and insulting the police who he clearly had a grudge against and also to spread more mis-information to help throw the police off his trail
Zodiac is not Paul Doerr, Arthur L. Allen, Gaikowski, Gary Poste, Ross Sullivan, E. Best or Ted K. If hes ever found it will fit together as perfectly as Joe DeAngelo fit GSK.
There was a little bit of evidence that pointed to DeAngelo - the dog repellent and hammer that he shoplifted plus using "Bonnie's" name. Some think that was obvious but those were slim to go on except that he also was an Exeter police officer. Very difficult to catch some of these serial killers who were in the open but unknown.
I'm very sceptical when it comes to people claiming a suspect while selling a book, Earl Jr for example, but this suspect really does seem intriguing. Most evidence since ALA, I really think unless more info comes out dismissing him, he's the best suspect so far. I don't absolutely believe he was Z, but he's the most plausible suspect I've come across. If any of the known POI's were Zodiac it's probably this guy.
I partly agree. If it's just a claim of new information or a new suspect for a cash grab , I just ignore it. Sometimes it's a person that did an incredible amount of research and devoted a lot a time to compile and organize that Intel/info and want to share it with other interested or obsessed armchair sleuths. It wasn't a product born from an interest in money more like it was a hobby that evolved into something worth sharing. Greatest example is "Chaos" by Tom Oneill. Tom worked on it obsessively for twenty years and proved the connection between Manson and the CIA.
So many "coincidences" point to Doerr, not to mention there being no conflicting evidence. He's the most likely suspect even more than Leigh Allen BUT it could have been both of them. I look forward to more investigation regarding Doerr.
The book is a very interesting read. I like the author going back to try to understand the culture of the times to interpret the clues. I just wonder if some other clues my have been ignored (im not done reading yet). He definitely feared his own confirmation bias, and fought it specifically, but kept being drawn back. He put out the book to release the concepts and the research he had done.
11:04 The composite drawings you show of Zodiac were not created "by police officers believed to have seen him." They were created with help from the three children who lived across the street from the Paul Stine murder. Mind you, that was at night and from some distance away. Officer Donald Foulkes, who may have had one of the clearest looks at Zodiac, never sat down with a sketch artist to create a drawing.
That’s not true, it was the officer who saw him and had the composit sketch made, the children witnessed the murder and saw what direction the killer went in, proving that the blood covered man the police talked to was the Zodiac, this was further confirmed by the Zodiac himself in one of his letters.
@@goodstuff8156 What you are saying is not true. The kids did both versions of the sketch. Foulkes only later stated that the sketch looked like the man he saw but looked older to him. And if you will do some research you will know Foulkes said he never stopped and talked to the man they drove past on the street that night.
it was just describing the guy's interests. No need to get so defensive LOL nobody is coming after your precious guns no matter how much fox news tries to scare you
Is there any sort of forensic evidence that can be used in this case? Unsolved open cases are so frustrating to me when you have a ton of suspects but can't prove any of it with actual evidence... Even if some are compelling suspects.
It seems wrong to publicly accuse a person of being a serial killer based on a bunch of circumstantial evidence. Especially after they’re dead and can’t even defend themselves. At least with Arthur Lee Allen, you could say he was a piece of trash regardless, because he was convicted of molesting a kid. So even if he wasn’t the Zodiac, it’s hard to feel bad for him. But this Paul Doerr guy seems like he might’ve just been a comic book fan, and now he’s being publicly accused of being a serial killer.
The problem is no suspect in this case is a slam dunk. I could probably research Bob Barker as the Zodiac killer and I bet you could vaguely find something that could connect to the case. So many people who “research” this case are only looking to profit from book sales or other things so we can’t take them seriously. It’s been so long since these murders happened that unless some previously undiscovered dna evidence were missed, I doubt we’ll ever know who did it. And so much time has went by, the killer is likely dead and will never be brought to justice. At least not on this Earth but God Almighty will.
@@CartoonCentral4 the problem is there are no suspects with concrete connections to the Zodiac directly. I'm kinda surprised that with a DNA profile that with the endless suspects, not one matched. It's said that the Zodiac was briefly questioned by police near one of the scenes before being let go because some erroneously reported the killer was a black man. So they had the killer but let him go due to inaccurate public reports which is why none of these suspects will ever be a sure thing and it's always circumstantial. Which is why I made the Bob Barker reference as a joke....which you clearly missed 😂. Lighten up.
@@DWtechfan It could be Bob Barker I'm just saying Paul Doerr looks the most likely. If you're talking about DNA profiles from letters it could be that the guy got someone else to send them. Who do you think is most likely the guy if anyone?
very compelling. the pic of him grinning old with glasses is almost an exact match in terms of features and shape and size. added to all the other rock solid evidence of doerr - enough for police to investigate and look very hard at him. great work form the author, great documentary from bad things. new sub here :)
The amount of circumstantial evidence on this guy is just as good as several other suspects, but I do find it interesting that Doerr looks like Count Zaroff from the Most Dangerous Game film in that photo showing him sporting a goatee, and again with the bow and arrow, also seems to evoke Zaroffs character.
there are literally 25 ways to rule out arthur. dna evidence, appearance, height, alibis, he is quite simply a zodiac fanboy and thats almost all there is to it
I hope they test this guy's DNA. I was stationed at Mare Island in the early 80s. That would be so crazy if he was there at the same time and actually is the zodiac.
How about the ethics when you name and describe a recently dead man (who hasn't been charged and probably not even been investigated) as a murder suspect? Any idea how his children and others close to him might feel? Yes it's fun to sit in front of one's computer and be an armchair expert on true crimes but isn't there some kind of responsibility when you publish your speculations?
1:38 I had to laugh. "Renegade Manson family followers." How bad would you have to be to be a "renegade" Manson family follower? They were all renegades!
Out of all of these people with similarities to the zodiac I think it needs to be investigated whether these people knew each other or not cuz it almost seems cult like ,and not just one person.
I don't think it was any of these guys, but probably someone who has never even been looked at or considered a suspect. It is/was a heavily populated area and there were/are lots of weird guys about. Most of the suspects don't even have anything really sinister about them, they just like comic books, movies, musicals ETC, so just nerds.
@@Boboskis yeah true, what got me thinking was this guy had bomb schematics and talked about slaves and there was another guy that also did the same thing, I can't remember what his name is.. but supposedly he buried a lot of the weapons in the mountains or something if that's true and if you can pay any attention to all of the stuff on the internet.
The theory Zodiac could've been multiple Killers is quite a merit one. The Lake Herman Road doesn't have any eye witnesses but the next three attacks all have eye witness accounts not adding up with one another. ALA could've been LB, Kane could've done Stine and Johns but who knows if the March 1970 incident was really Z. The details mentioned were already realised well after he mailed the letter in July.
I appreciate that eyewitness accounts can be unreliable, but I think for zodiac they are pretty close to matching. All witnesses said he was around 5"8, 200lbs, heavy built/beefy, but not obese/blubbery. They also mention reddish/blonde hair and those that saw his face said he had a large, round face. What parts of the witness accounts differ drastically in your opinion? I don't think the e-fit with glasses is good likeness, that guy looks skinny/thin and we know zodiac wasn't that.
@@Boboskis Lake Berryessa's person of interest being larger than Paul Stine's. The Police Composite of the crimes committed just two weeks apart look strikingly different. However the man at the lake was a person of interest at best.
I don’t think so. It’s way too unique & out there to be multiple people, and if it were some sort of cult there’s no way a member of a group wouldn’t have slipped up at this point. My personal theory is the Zodiac was some form of a incel who possibly knew he was dying and this was his way of striking couples he was jealous over and showing he was a powerful smart guy which he wanted attention for, also why he mentioned taking slaves to paradise is he knew he was going to die. Another thought I’ve had is this dude wore a full ass ridiculous custom costume and was WAY into his power trip. There’s no way he would stop without getting caught as this wasn’t just an impulse. Yet somehow nobody ever found his costumes or stash of stuff if he had died accidentally or been investigated for other crimes? That makes me believe he probably knew when to hang it up before he checked out.
@Alex F yes of course they’re all theories but the fact nobody had a clue about this, he was targeting specifically happy couples, he started claiming other killings that weren’t his, he went out his way to do cryptography etc. really just all sounds very “person with no friends or women” ish trying to become someone. And I just see it impossible at this point that his costume and weapons which were supposedly unique, even custom made, were never found.
what blows my mind is how come one of the survivors couldn't fucking go and identify his aggressor, he saw the guy's face right in front of him, if he'd had a pair of balls this case would've been solved decades ago.
Mike Mageau hid for years. He was wearing 3 sets of clothing on July 4th. If you dig a bit, I believe the killer of Darlene was Detective Richard Hoffman. He was in the ambulance wuth her and her bra had been pulled up and mostly off. I believe Mageau knows that one os Hoffman.
So many coincidences piling up with this guy that he warrants a more thorough investigation. No one has come up with anything definitive that totally rules him out. Lived in Fairfield (15 minutes from two of the crimes...north of Vallejo) where three of the letters were posted from. right height and weight, was sometime clean shaven and wore glasses and at times had a crew cut. Liked playing dress ups and writing to Zines worked in the military at Mare Is (Vallejo). Loved cryptograms and wrote words at time in all Caps with a small i Just like Z (Doerr wrote PiNK RAiN GiANTS Zodiac wrote PARADiCE, KNiFE FiRE). and was in the right age range. Used one cent stamps like Z. and his daughter disowned him three nights before LHR murders. easy to get from BRS and LHR to Fairfield and would not be suspicious in the area.
Wtf? Lmao Everyone checkout 8:20 in the video. He reads someones stupid post, then he goes on to say “then below this, someone else shared the same sentiment” and then read that same guys different post backing his original. Nuthin like livin on Reddit😂
There are more Zodiac suspects than the public needs, and I agree that skepticism is appropriate enough every time a new one arises. Nevertheless, I would say that the similarities/connections between Doerr and the Zodiac are not trivial. They are very striking, and he is surely the most viable suspect by far. I think that Kobek got his man.
This is the best new suspect in decades. It seems like a very inconsequential thing, that encryption cookbook. That the killer would have disassociated himself from it by destroying it (i.e. losing it), yet years later going to effort to ask his wife to buy him a new copy may indicate more than it would seem combined with the other circumstantial things. Especially his wife finding it in a box marked "guilt box" after his death. That seems to give it a much deeper meaning. I assume Doerr's daughter's DNA could be compared to the supposed DNA law enforcement must have if they ruled out Arthur Lee Allen by DNA. I think that the FBI/law enforcement needs to immediately step up for this DNA comparison as it would seem Doerr's daughter would be willing as her initial outrage turned to her own suspicions. BTW, that actual elder Doerr pic comparison at the start is eerily like a really good aged progression type of picture often used to find missing people.
I think the most likely way we find out and most likely I will still have to be alive but I believe the real zodiac killer wants it to be known wants his name to be known as the killer and he will leave evidence pointing to him that shows evidence against him once he’s dead I think you’ll probably leave a few special letters in as well or letters that you’ll give to people close to him with the instructions to only open and read once he’s passed away but he’s so egotistical I could even see him doing it on his deathbed just to get a couple weeks in the spotlight before he passes I almost guarantee this will happen if he still alive If this scenario doesn’t play out it’s because he died suddenly and young before he had the opportunity to put the steps in place meaning he probably died within five years of the murders themselves but if you lived any longer than that into the 80s 90s 00s I think he definitely would have put this theory in motion is just too much of a ego testicle sociopath do not let the world know he was the one that fooled the world trying to make himself out to be A genius mastermind criminal
Regarding this piece of "evidence" that he claims to have murdered someone, is it someone else than what you showed on screen? Because what he wrote in that letter must be tackled with some serious mental gymnastics to even come close to interpreting it as a confession.
One rather telling thing against Arthur Leigh Allen is that he had a Zodiac watch, on which the symbol was like a gunsight, and someone testified that he said that if he ever became a serial killer, he would call himself Zodiac.
Arthur Leigh Allen is still a great suspect and I don’t understand how his DNA was ruled out from the letters sent. I still think he took precautions with his DNA. And like you said what are the odds he had a zodiac watch with the same exact symbol!!!! And he admitted to being at lake barryessa on the same day as the attack/murder!
The story goes that Allen had the same shoes as the Zodiac, had a Zodiac watch, always talked about the Zodiac murders with his friends, but when questioned by authorities or the media he always denied he was the Zodiac
My grandfather lived and died in Iran, but he was of the appropriate age then and wore glasses, and despite not having ever seen him, I think he could have killed someone. Can I get an episode?
Circustantial evidence... Guy looked like sketches, was into guns, worked with cryptography in the military, was violent... There are millions of things that fall under circumstantial evidence, and there are countless individuals who can match a combination of them. We need evidence that actually places them at the crime scene.
very, very hard to say. one witness says 5 ft 8, another says 5 ft 11 if i recal correctly. this makes it very much possible they are 1 person or multiple people
@@hordechess7629 Judging someone's height has been shown to be incredibly unreliable. Not to mention the Lake Berryessa scene where he might appear taller due to the hood.
your guy looks more like michael bisping than zodiac but keep at it and we might get somewhere. its better work than the 50th series about dahmer and bundy who are already caught so wheres the mystery with them
I always believed, the killings have done by a ex cop. Who probably got issues with their colleagues. And wanted to taunt them. Random killings and sudden stopping of the killings clearly gives impression, that it's neither professional or psychological. Also method of killings are not brutal.. just simple gun shots... Which a police man can do very easily. It was all because of ego , enemity and jealousy.
Imagine if zodiac never killed anyone but simply wrote letters taking credit for a handful of unsolved murders that he knew could never be linked to him and all of the apparent connections were merely coincidence
👏👏👏
Good one dude 😎
But then there’s the pieces of Paul Stine’s bloody shirt mailed with some of the letters…
@@jetnova3788 Yes and he also knew things that only the killer would know about the first crime for example.
maybe it was a 2 man team. got the killer and the one who writes the letters 🤷♂
I love how there’s a brand new suspect every week 😂
At least this is a new poi, instead of other channels like bbor that simply regurgitate and over analyse old poi's.
Yeah, this one is the new suspect because he "advocated for gun rights"... Lmao
Same with the d.b copper
I want Denzel Washington to declare himself a suspect and make the sequel.
Good. Bring them on. The more suspects, the better chance catching him.
“This new Zodiac suspect checks all the boxes.”
* He’s got glasses.
He was a man.
It's not him but rather another man name Paul.
@@stephenpmurphy591 Obviously, both of you wrote what you wrote without watching the video.
The next Zodiac suspect will be a cat
Everyone is the Zodiac, I was born in 1983 in Detroit and never been to California...can't wait til I'm a Zodiac suspect 😶
At this point there are so many suspects I don’t think we will ever know who did it. It’s just gonna be one of those cases that’s never solved
Yeah it’s turned into this generations Jack the Ripper the main difference being I heard they potentially have DNA in the zodiac case or I should say DNA that is potentially the zodiac And if that’s true there is a chance he gets caught with the same technique that caught the golden state killer/original Nightstalker
@@djdj2231 what if he’s dead already though? That means we will never know then right ?
@@092filmz He won’t have to be alive if they’re able to use the same technique they got the Golden State killer caught that technique uses companies I do the DNA family tree like ancestry I think it’s one of the companies but there’s dozens of family tree DNA companies out there these days so all they have to do is fine close matches to a few of his relatives that drastically narrows The suspects that can be then all you have to do they start to put the pieces together the age range of relatives where they lived in the country during this time and then actually getting DNA samples from modern relatives based off all these steps it’s almost impossible for killers who leave their DNA to get away with murder going forward even if they’re not identified when they’re still alive one or two generations down the line when somebody from his family purchases one of his DNA ancestry plans it’ll pop up connected to them but it’s still a pretty big ass I heard they have some DNA samples but there’s no guarantee that it’s actually the zodiac even though it might be on zodiac letters and evidence from the letters because the zodiac could’ve got other people to lick the stamps or to actually Mail the letters for them so that is one of the best ways possible further down in the comments I also wrote that the zodiac is such an eager testicle person that I believe if he still alive that he’s probably left letters and evidence in his will that will be able to link them to all the killings killings even if he doesn’t get the credit for the zodiac killings in life he wants his name attached to it for history I almost see no way based off of his personality make up but this isn’t the case so based off of this there’s only a couple other ways I could’ve gone why we don’t know yet is that he died very close to win the zodiac killing stop so he died suddenly didn’t have a chance to put these steps into motion quite frankly at the time probably wasn’t done with the zodiac killings or that he has died recently but he gave evidence and letters to somebody close and made them promise not to open it up for a certain time Is it just a couple theory’s that pop into my head when I think about this it’s all speculation of course
@@092filmz if anyone in your family ever had their DNA submitted they can find you. It’s quite freaky honestly. If they had Jack the rippers DNA and his remaining relative submitted theirs they could identify him.
Yes, it's very doubtful that the real Zodiac will ever be identified. No doubt the guy has been dead for decades!!
Big fan of the zodiac stories but I'm starting to believe zodiac is just not even a real person anymore obviously it could have been multiple people
What I've always thought. Even what if multiple people wrote the letter 🤷
@@mikegarcia2685 that and he could have taken credit for other people's crimes.
I have thought this, but I now think the canonical 5 and most of the letters are the same person. The attacks were progressively more daring/risky and the gaps between them shorter and shorter, then he almost got caught at the Stine scene and cooled off/just sent letters.
The attack at Berryessa stands out because the MO is so different, so you'd think maybe copycat, but then he wrote on the car door and the handwriting/phrasing is basically zodiac. I just think it's a bit of stretch to think copycat would copy writing, but completely different MO.
When I say multiple people I mean like a crew maybe couple guys each taking their turn killing.
Zodiac sent in a piece of Paul Stine's shirt, so we know that he killed Paul Stine, but I don't know of anything he did or said that would prove that he committed any of the other killings.
Doerr is not a strong suspect. The Doerr theory is based on fanciful speculation that Zodiac published fanzines. There is no evidence that he actually did that.
His crimes interest me more than the letters. I think the ciphers are worthless. He didn't give away clues to who he was, especially his name.
This literally proves nothing. LOL
I BELIEVE MY FATHER IS THE ZODIAC AND BLACK DAHLIA KILLER. ILL ASK HIM AT DINNER TONIGHT AND LET YOU ALL KNOW WHAT HE SAYS
Still waiting for your dad's response is he the zodiac killer we could split the reward money
it’s just one random person after another getting pulled from the hat. i think my grandfather was the zodiac killer 🤣🤦🏻♂️🪓
Hardly. Way too many coincidences without conflicting evidence with Doerr.
@@Ty44444 there is "evidence" and "coincides" with EVERY single one of these people they are naming LOL
Nah, Zodiac was my cousin
@@rucianapollard7098 now now now.... don't disrespect my gramps like that! 🤣
It’s very hard for me to really take any zodiac videos on this channel seriously
Zodiac was most likely a cop or ex cop. He used tactics similar to the golden state killer who was also a cop who had specialised training in investigating burglaries. He threw out false information to brian hartnell about being from a prison in montana. He claimed crimes that wasnt his in his letters. He wore the hood in the attack on hartnell and shepherd to hide his identity because of his earlier mistake in letting megeau see his face and survive and also because the executioner hood would help spread terror if hartnell or shepherd survived to describe it. His main goal was to make as many people fear him as possible. I think he stopped killing after paul stine because he wasnt nearly caught that night and it spooked him into stopping but he still wrote some more letters afterwards to scratch his itch of terrorising the community and insulting the police who he clearly had a grudge against and also to spread more mis-information to help throw the police off his trail
That's what they said about Unibomber, so...
This is pretty good
Those "coincidences" are so specific that it's tough to call them coincidences.
Like what
Zodiac is not Paul Doerr, Arthur L. Allen, Gaikowski, Gary Poste, Ross Sullivan, E. Best or Ted K. If hes ever found it will fit together as perfectly as Joe DeAngelo fit GSK.
There was a little bit of evidence that pointed to DeAngelo - the dog repellent and hammer that he shoplifted plus using "Bonnie's" name. Some think that was obvious but those were slim to go on except that he also was an Exeter police officer. Very difficult to catch some of these serial killers who were in the open but unknown.
I'm very sceptical when it comes to people claiming a suspect while selling a book, Earl Jr for example, but this suspect really does seem intriguing. Most evidence since ALA, I really think unless more info comes out dismissing him, he's the best suspect so far. I don't absolutely believe he was Z, but he's the most plausible suspect I've come across. If any of the known POI's were Zodiac it's probably this guy.
thats my thoughts exactly
I partly agree. If it's just a claim of new information or a new suspect for a cash grab , I just ignore it. Sometimes it's a person that did an incredible amount of research and devoted a lot a time to compile and organize that Intel/info and want to share it with other interested or obsessed armchair sleuths. It wasn't a product born from an interest in money more like it was a hobby that evolved into something worth sharing. Greatest example is "Chaos" by Tom Oneill. Tom worked on it obsessively for twenty years and proved the connection between Manson and the CIA.
You're clueless
So many "coincidences" point to Doerr, not to mention there being no conflicting evidence. He's the most likely suspect even more than Leigh Allen BUT it could have been both of them. I look forward to more investigation regarding Doerr.
The book is a very interesting read. I like the author going back to try to understand the culture of the times to interpret the clues. I just wonder if some other clues my have been ignored (im not done reading yet). He definitely feared his own confirmation bias, and fought it specifically, but kept being drawn back. He put out the book to release the concepts and the research he had done.
11:04 The composite drawings you show of Zodiac were not created "by police officers believed to have seen him." They were created with help from the three children who lived across the street from the Paul Stine murder. Mind you, that was at night and from some distance away. Officer Donald Foulkes, who may have had one of the clearest looks at Zodiac, never sat down with a sketch artist to create a drawing.
That’s not true, it was the officer who saw him and had the composit sketch made, the children witnessed the murder and saw what direction the killer went in, proving that the blood covered man the police talked to was the Zodiac, this was further confirmed by the Zodiac himself in one of his letters.
@@goodstuff8156 bad stuff
@@goodstuff8156 What you are saying is not true. The kids did both versions of the sketch. Foulkes only later stated that the sketch looked like the man he saw but looked older to him. And if you will do some research you will know Foulkes said he never stopped and talked to the man they drove past on the street that night.
@@dennismckean8773obviously..if he stopped ans talked to the man ,then he would know exactly how Zodiac looked like..
@@goodstuff8156It amazes that tge cop stopped him and seen blood on him and didn't at least take him in
How is advocating for gun rights a "clue" that someone is a serial killer? Lmao.
Just goes to show you how brainwashed people have become.
it was just describing the guy's interests. No need to get so defensive LOL nobody is coming after your precious guns no matter how much fox news tries to scare you
@@ethandoyle8812 you have proved my point. Thank you. Save your gaslighting bs for the other commie sheep.
Is there any sort of forensic evidence that can be used in this case? Unsolved open cases are so frustrating to me when you have a ton of suspects but can't prove any of it with actual evidence... Even if some are compelling suspects.
There was DNA on stamps and letters but never matched anyone
Fingerprints, handwriting and potential DNA from licked stamps/envelopes.
@@Allworldsk1 have they put it through 23andme and ancestry?
@@Val.Kyrie. they have better systems than those for it.
It seems wrong to publicly accuse a person of being a serial killer based on a bunch of circumstantial evidence. Especially after they’re dead and can’t even defend themselves.
At least with Arthur Lee Allen, you could say he was a piece of trash regardless, because he was convicted of molesting a kid. So even if he wasn’t the Zodiac, it’s hard to feel bad for him.
But this Paul Doerr guy seems like he might’ve just been a comic book fan, and now he’s being publicly accused of being a serial killer.
The problem is no suspect in this case is a slam dunk. I could probably research Bob Barker as the Zodiac killer and I bet you could vaguely find something that could connect to the case. So many people who “research” this case are only looking to profit from book sales or other things so we can’t take them seriously. It’s been so long since these murders happened that unless some previously undiscovered dna evidence were missed, I doubt we’ll ever know who did it. And so much time has went by, the killer is likely dead and will never be brought to justice. At least not on this Earth but God Almighty will.
The puppet guy?
The connections to Paul Doerr are not vague like they would be with Bob Barker if there even would be any connections to Barker.
@@KingFoopa perhaps Captain Kangaroo?
@@CartoonCentral4 the problem is there are no suspects with concrete connections to the Zodiac directly. I'm kinda surprised that with a DNA profile that with the endless suspects, not one matched. It's said that the Zodiac was briefly questioned by police near one of the scenes before being let go because some erroneously reported the killer was a black man. So they had the killer but let him go due to inaccurate public reports which is why none of these suspects will ever be a sure thing and it's always circumstantial. Which is why I made the Bob Barker reference as a joke....which you clearly missed 😂. Lighten up.
@@DWtechfan It could be Bob Barker I'm just saying Paul Doerr looks the most likely. If you're talking about DNA profiles from letters it could be that the guy got someone else to send them. Who do you think is most likely the guy if anyone?
very compelling. the pic of him grinning old with glasses is almost an exact match in terms of features and shape and size. added to all the other rock solid evidence of doerr - enough for police to investigate and look very hard at him. great work form the author, great documentary from bad things. new sub here :)
Maybe the Zodiac Killer never existed, or perhaps the Zodiac Killer was the friends we made along the way.
The amount of circumstantial evidence on this guy is just as good as several other suspects, but I do find it interesting that Doerr looks like Count Zaroff from the Most Dangerous Game film in that photo showing him sporting a goatee, and again with the bow and arrow, also seems to evoke Zaroffs character.
There are literally 25 reasons or facts that link Arthur Leigh Allen to being the Zodiac. Sometimes the most obvious answer is the correct answer.
Except for his physical description by the survivors and the kid witnesses. They all said he was around 5'8 and not well over 6'.
After Allen died a DNA sample was taken of his brain. It did not match a DNA sample taken from a stamp of one of his letters to a newspaper.
It's not him
there are literally 25 ways to rule out arthur. dna evidence, appearance, height, alibis, he is quite simply a zodiac fanboy and thats almost all there is to it
I personally believe it was ALA was as well.
Sometimes, we're right the first time! This is one of those times.
I heard a rumour that Tom had to give Don Cheney a sponge bath and a hand job to secure that interview. Anyone know if this was true or not?
💯😂
Now this is front Doerr or back Doerr of the zodiac 😂😂😂
I really enjoyed this one mate! 🎃
Glad you enjoyed it!
I hope they test this guy's DNA. I was stationed at Mare Island in the early 80s. That would be so crazy if he was there at the same time and actually is the zodiac.
ooooor the symbol could've been taken from the zodiac watch company's logo...
That is exactly what it was taken from. It's literally the exact same symbol.
More coincidences presented as if they are hard evidence. Doerr does not fit the physicality or personality of the Zodiac.
This definitely Americas "Jack The Ripper" case.
Nothing will top our Jack the Ripper 😉
It's like they're not even trying anymore with some of these suspects.
How about the ethics when you name and describe a recently dead man (who hasn't been charged and probably not even been investigated) as a murder suspect? Any idea how his children and others close to him might feel? Yes it's fun to sit in front of one's computer and be an armchair expert on true crimes but isn't there some kind of responsibility when you publish your speculations?
Just imagine next year we find out there’s another zodiac killer suspects
the guy who "solved" the first cipher was zodiac. it fits the MO to perfectly. Claim both sides of the headlines the killer and the "hero"
Harden? A thin guy.
Wasn’t it a married couple who solved it?
@@chynnadoll3277 it was Harden also his wife was crazy too
@@RootDRThorne they were a strange couple, that doesn't make him zodiac
@@theycantallbezodiac look into Harden
I love the House of Guitars T shirt at 2:25. Armond Sharbuck
It always seems that the finger points back at Arthur L. Allen but some DNA evidence found on envelopes has disputed that fact.
Bad Things brighten my day
1:38 I had to laugh. "Renegade Manson family followers." How bad would you have to be to be a "renegade" Manson family follower? They were all renegades!
lol, as opposed to the "Bank Teller" Manson family followers?
He would start up the killing again if he lived long enough to see The Rings or Power.
The fact that you call him Michael Magoo undermines any credibility you may have held.
“Tilted to the left back then”.
Back then?!?
WTF does he think it is now?
Didn't they finally match the dna on an envelope to an actual person and close the case?
No
Out of all of these people with similarities to the zodiac I think it needs to be investigated whether these people knew each other or not cuz it almost seems cult like ,and not just one person.
I don't think it was any of these guys, but probably someone who has never even been looked at or considered a suspect. It is/was a heavily populated area and there were/are lots of weird guys about. Most of the suspects don't even have anything really sinister about them, they just like comic books, movies, musicals ETC, so just nerds.
@@Boboskis yeah true, what got me thinking was this guy had bomb schematics and talked about slaves and there was another guy that also did the same thing, I can't remember what his name is.. but supposedly he buried a lot of the weapons in the mountains or something if that's true and if you can pay any attention to all of the stuff on the internet.
The Zodiac Killer was Charles Lechemer or JACK THE RIPPER .
We know it's Teddie Cruz. So, get lost!
The theory Zodiac could've been multiple Killers is quite a merit one. The Lake Herman Road doesn't have any eye witnesses but the next three attacks all have eye witness accounts not adding up with one another. ALA could've been LB, Kane could've done Stine and Johns but who knows if the March 1970 incident was really Z. The details mentioned were already realised well after he mailed the letter in July.
I appreciate that eyewitness accounts can be unreliable, but I think for zodiac they are pretty close to matching. All witnesses said he was around 5"8, 200lbs, heavy built/beefy, but not obese/blubbery. They also mention reddish/blonde hair and those that saw his face said he had a large, round face.
What parts of the witness accounts differ drastically in your opinion? I don't think the e-fit with glasses is good likeness, that guy looks skinny/thin and we know zodiac wasn't that.
@@Boboskis Lake Berryessa's person of interest being larger than Paul Stine's. The Police Composite of the crimes committed just two weeks apart look strikingly different. However the man at the lake was a person of interest at best.
I don’t think so. It’s way too unique & out there to be multiple people, and if it were some sort of cult there’s no way a member of a group wouldn’t have slipped up at this point.
My personal theory is the Zodiac was some form of a incel who possibly knew he was dying and this was his way of striking couples he was jealous over and showing he was a powerful smart guy which he wanted attention for, also why he mentioned taking slaves to paradise is he knew he was going to die. Another thought I’ve had is this dude wore a full ass ridiculous custom costume and was WAY into his power trip. There’s no way he would stop without getting caught as this wasn’t just an impulse. Yet somehow nobody ever found his costumes or stash of stuff if he had died accidentally or been investigated for other crimes? That makes me believe he probably knew when to hang it up before he checked out.
@Alex F yes of course they’re all theories but the fact nobody had a clue about this, he was targeting specifically happy couples, he started claiming other killings that weren’t his, he went out his way to do cryptography etc. really just all sounds very “person with no friends or women” ish trying to become someone. And I just see it impossible at this point that his costume and weapons which were supposedly unique, even custom made, were never found.
@@PlutoTheGod several people as far as I know were found in posession of Zodiac hoods.
what blows my mind is how come one of the survivors couldn't fucking go and identify his aggressor, he saw the guy's face right in front of him, if he'd had a pair of balls this case would've been solved decades ago.
I seem to remember that eyewitness testimony is often the weakest, and avoided as much as possible.
@@shawnashe9710 but in this case that's the only evidence they have.
Mike Mageau hid for years. He was wearing 3 sets of clothing on July 4th. If you dig a bit, I believe the killer of Darlene was Detective Richard Hoffman. He was in the ambulance wuth her and her bra had been pulled up and mostly off. I believe Mageau knows that one os Hoffman.
This hypothesis is the tightest I've heard. I'll read the book.
This video is an almost word for word duplicate of a video put out by WhatCulture...two weeks earlier.
I think Tom Voigt is right but there isn't really any better evidence against Gaikowsky either.
The “evidence” on Gaik is weaker, I think.
I am 99% sure that it was Paul Doerr
What about Arthur Leigh Allen
@charlesgardner7258 He was tested for DNA years ago and they found out it wasn't him. He wanted people to think he was the zodiac.
It was Don Cheney and ALA.. I thought everyone knew that by now, lol.
i thougt it may be don cheney if allen was his friend - he could have known loads about him so he wrote the letters implicating allen
The unabomber definitely was not the zodiac. I met him before he is a really nice guy.
So many coincidences piling up with this guy that he warrants a more thorough investigation. No one has come up with anything definitive that totally rules him out. Lived in Fairfield (15 minutes from two of the crimes...north of Vallejo) where three of the letters were posted from. right height and weight, was sometime clean shaven and wore glasses and at times had a crew cut. Liked playing dress ups and writing to Zines worked in the military at Mare Is (Vallejo). Loved cryptograms and wrote words at time in all Caps with a small i Just like Z (Doerr wrote PiNK RAiN GiANTS Zodiac wrote PARADiCE, KNiFE FiRE). and was in the right age range. Used one cent stamps like Z. and his daughter disowned him three nights before LHR murders. easy to get from BRS and LHR to Fairfield and would not be suspicious in the area.
Exactly. So many coincidences and no conflicting evidence.
the zodiac is ROSS SULLIVAN
The Zodiac Killer is Ross Gellar.
Wtf? Lmao
Everyone checkout 8:20 in the video.
He reads someones stupid post, then he goes on to say “then below this, someone else shared the same sentiment” and then read that same guys different post backing his original.
Nuthin like livin on Reddit😂
Does his fingerprint match?
Nope.
Whatever happened to the guy that lived in Italy And got arrested for being a serial killer. He was a suspect at one time
Yes monster of Florence. He got acquitted of the murders then I think when a retrial was going to happen he died of a heart attack.
@@NICKDEVILS420 damn similar to ALA there
what if all the suspects are Zodiac?
There are more Zodiac suspects than the public needs, and I agree that skepticism is appropriate enough every time a new one arises. Nevertheless, I would say that the similarities/connections between Doerr and the Zodiac are not trivial. They are very striking, and he is surely the most viable suspect by far. I think that Kobek got his man.
Does he have a scar on his head? Is he a giant nerd? Did he live in california? Those are my 3 qualifiers of a decent suspect
i thought it was Gary Frances something-something
Poste.
"Hey Paul, there's a settlement nearby that might need your help."
there is not. he didnt wipe out nukaworld and preston wont talk to him anymore
@@smallies7154 well, he can't be going around saying he's a minuteman then.
Noobs tend to find Doerr compelling for some reason.
Noobs seem to be unaware of Tom Voigt's stalking convictions for some reason
tom why don't u stop abusing ur wife and go to therapy?
@@1038gen My wife is my therapist.
@@doctorslightlyevil You noobs sure are sensitive to being noobs.
If I had a choice of Zodiac Killer suspects it would be Donald Chaney. He kept trying to make ALA as the only suspect.
Doerr fits the profile nicely.
This is the best new suspect in decades. It seems like a very inconsequential thing, that encryption cookbook. That the killer would have disassociated himself from it by destroying it (i.e. losing it), yet years later going to effort to ask his wife to buy him a new copy may indicate more than it would seem combined with the other circumstantial things. Especially his wife finding it in a box marked "guilt box" after his death. That seems to give it a much deeper meaning. I assume Doerr's daughter's DNA could be compared to the supposed DNA law enforcement must have if they ruled out Arthur Lee Allen by DNA. I think that the FBI/law enforcement needs to immediately step up for this DNA comparison as it would seem Doerr's daughter would be willing as her initial outrage turned to her own suspicions. BTW, that actual elder Doerr pic comparison at the start is eerily like a really good aged progression type of picture often used to find missing people.
Aren't all cryptograms "cryptic"?
This is pretty unscientific but... he doesn't have the eyes of a killer.
Absolutely him!
I think it was Ted Cruz
Ted Cruz was born December 1970.
@@joinjen3854 He is also a time traveler. Proven fact.
@@hansgrueber8169 post the proof.
I think the most likely way we find out and most likely I will still have to be alive but I believe the real zodiac killer wants it to be known wants his name to be known as the killer and he will leave evidence pointing to him that shows evidence against him once he’s dead I think you’ll probably leave a few special letters in as well or letters that you’ll give to people close to him with the instructions to only open and read once he’s passed away but he’s so egotistical I could even see him doing it on his deathbed just to get a couple weeks in the spotlight before he passes I almost guarantee this will happen if he still alive If this scenario doesn’t play out it’s because he died suddenly and young before he had the opportunity to put the steps in place meaning he probably died within five years of the murders themselves but if you lived any longer than that into the 80s 90s 00s I think he definitely would have put this theory in motion is just too much of a ego testicle sociopath do not let the world know he was the one that fooled the world trying to make himself out to be A genius mastermind criminal
Regarding this piece of "evidence" that he claims to have murdered someone, is it someone else than what you showed on screen? Because what he wrote in that letter must be tackled with some serious mental gymnastics to even come close to interpreting it as a confession.
There are 10 Zodiacs !😂
Oh, more than that!
What if the unknown comic was zodiac.
The guy in the thumbnail looks a bit like Giorgio Tsoukalis (sic) from Ancient Aliens....😜
The photo of the younger Doerre shown in this video is inaccurate. It is a photo taken in the 2000s, not the 1960s.
I’ve always said that Renaissance nuts are to be avoided.
One rather telling thing against Arthur Leigh Allen is that he had a Zodiac watch, on which the symbol was like a gunsight, and someone testified that he said that if he ever became a serial killer, he would call himself Zodiac.
Arthur Leigh Allen is still a great suspect and I don’t understand how his DNA was ruled out from the letters sent. I still think he took precautions with his DNA. And like you said what are the odds he had a zodiac watch with the same exact symbol!!!! And he admitted to being at lake barryessa on the same day as the attack/murder!
No one testified that. He was never on trial.
The story goes that Allen had the same shoes as the Zodiac, had a Zodiac watch, always talked about the Zodiac murders with his friends, but when questioned by authorities or the media he always denied he was the Zodiac
Didn’t DNA rule him out?
arthur is debunked, and his zodiac identity/merchandise is explained simply by him being a zodiac fanboy
Zodiac=DB Cooper.
Richard Gyke was a journalist, stalked one of the victims, followed her go Albany ,NY. And went to Paul Stines funeral. Plus he was a co!bat.medic vet
My grandfather lived and died in Iran, but he was of the appropriate age then and wore glasses, and despite not having ever seen him, I think he could have killed someone.
Can I get an episode?
Circustantial evidence... Guy looked like sketches, was into guns, worked with cryptography in the military, was violent... There are millions of things that fall under circumstantial evidence, and there are countless individuals who can match a combination of them. We need evidence that actually places them at the crime scene.
The thumbnail looks very much like the sketch. Especially the eyes
Are there more suspects than victims?
Hell ol Jared looks like he might could be one of them thar cereal killers
Definitely the wrong guy 🙈😂
I always thought that it was a group of 2-3 people who had issues with the victims and decided to claim them as 1 entity
very, very hard to say. one witness says 5 ft 8, another says 5 ft 11 if i recal correctly. this makes it very much possible they are 1 person or multiple people
5 ft 10
Occam's Razor
@@hordechess7629 Judging someone's height has been shown to be incredibly unreliable. Not to mention the Lake Berryessa scene where he might appear taller due to the hood.
Hey, It's David with the voiceover!
your guy looks more like michael bisping than zodiac but keep at it and we might get somewhere. its better work than the 50th series about dahmer and bundy who are already caught so wheres the mystery with them
We really don't know what the guy looks like tho. Doerr matches height and weight descriptions with way too many coincidences.
Now I believe he was the zodiac.That is until I watch another video claiming someone new.
We all know the zodiac killer is the well known senator xD
This is extremely thin.
Looks very promising 😮
BT! You're gonna mess around and get you're ass whooped!
I always believed, the killings have done by a ex cop. Who probably got issues with their colleagues. And wanted to taunt them. Random killings and sudden stopping of the killings clearly gives impression, that it's neither professional or psychological. Also method of killings are not brutal.. just simple gun shots... Which a police man can do very easily.
It was all because of ego , enemity and jealousy.
Zodiac was yo mama!😂😂
Its never going to be solved because he simple out smarted the police of the day. Now its been to long.