The work beef between Shaq and Kobe, Part 2 | Big dog, little dog
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- The "Shaq-Kobe beef" has become kind of a meme, just a flat cultural reference point. How to Make a Basket: Shaq vs. Kobe endeavors to go deeper than that, to figure out why and how these two legendary partners didn't get along, and how they achieved such greatness in spite of that.
Part 2 begins in 2000. After Shaq and Kobe won their first championship with the Lakers, it seemed like the feud between their two stars might be over. But while Shaq relished in finally reaching the mountaintop, Kobe was dissatisfied. He spent the whole summer working on his shot, hoping to become such an elite scorer that no one could deny him first-option status in the Laker offense. The Lakers kept winning, but Shaq didn't agree with Kobe's plan, and their conflicts in viewpoint inflamed the "work beef."
Part 3 premieres 11/7.
Directed and edited by Charlotte Atkinson
Motion graphics by Tyson Whiting
Art direction by Michael Das
Written and produced by Seth Rosenthal
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Heyo thanks for stopping by. If you missed part one and are a little lost, well here you go: ruclips.net/video/ud9FFraGI0s/видео.htmlsi=UD8mvLTAWN-BSlP_
Enjoy all around and appreciate you for being you.
Best duo in my book
Kareem with the skyhook
Magic with the no look
Was leaving ‘em so shook.
It is a team game
The crown’s on King James
Jack Nicholson courtside
Oooh look the score’s tied.
Wham! Don’t give a damn punk
Kobe down the middle, throw to Shaq... SLAM DUNK!
The story for me
Is Horry for three 2, 1, ANNHH!
Seth, thank you!!!!!! Please don’t let anyone else do the NBA ones! Masterpiece!
We need part 3!!
Only Seth could say Shaq Daddy Sandwich with such conviction
Are you going to continue the fumble dimension stuff, sorry for asking, but I watch for channel for those, although these are good too
I prefer BBQ CHICKEN
Ngl, that SDS sounds pretty good
The only thing that upset me is I have to wait for the other parts to come out it’s not like I don’t know this story we all do but still I want to watch it
Yall are so 🏳️🌈 at every aspect
There's this vibe of Kobe dealing with social anxiety. Once able to let people in, his relationship blossomed with Shaq and the Lakers. I admire that journey of self-realization.
It looks so simple but in reality it's harder than it actually seems though.
Also just sort of seems like the journey of going from 18 years old to 25 years old. Dude's brain wasn't finished cooking yet.
@@kyleowsenmy biggest cricitism of Kobe is he could have been the GOAT if he went to college and worked through all that. 4 years of NCAA ball would have done wonders.
@@kyleowsen Shaq is as childish as he was then right now btw lol
@@MineShackleLet's be fair, that's less surprising when compared directly to Kobe's growth because Shaq was 24-25 and had always been like that.
I appreciate how Seth broke down the basketball of it and addressed the MJ comparison in the triangle offense. I mean Shaq and Kobe both had legit perspectives when you look at the basketball side but I wish they had a better way of communicating it with each other. Both high high basketball IQ all time greats. RIP Kobe
Their communication was the downfall of the 2000's Lakers, both of them were too focused on the issue the other had than their problems. RIP Kobe
@@Marchen07 Not to say this was only on Kobe because Shaq was the older dude and acted very childish but it just seems to me that Kobe didn’t truly realize this aspect until he went through those high scoring years in the doldrums with Smush, Kwame Brown etc. That’s why you could see he was a different guy after the MVP season and his partnership with Pau blossomed. If I’m not mistaken when Kobe tried to go for no. 6 w Dwight and saw how clownish dude was, he apologized to Shaq or realized what the difference was I think.
We don't deserve content like this. Thank you, SB❤
you do though
@@SecretBaseSBN 🥹🥹🥹
@@SecretBaseSBNthis is so dope and I agree but I also felt like OP in the way that I felt lucky to get a second part of this just as brilliant as the first as quick as we did.
@@SecretBaseSBNthank you, SB, and thank you, Seth. It wouldn’t be the same if someone else did it.
your best work yet, thank you!
Kobe's story is just so fascinating. Instead of the larger than life career of MJ or the picture-perfect smooth sailing of Lebron, Kobe somehow feels relatable in his struggle for greatness. It's my favorite sport story, because he is one of the best ever, but still had the mentality of the underdog, trying to achieve the impossible, be better than MJ. His strengths are also his flaws, as this series perfectly shows. The tunnel vision and obsession made him great, but also hard to play with. And then to see how he matured in those years after Shaq and cemented his legacy with Gasol and just kept on grinding after that, while his team was getting worse by the year. It all adds up to this amazing life story.
The best part is that when he retired and could let go of that obsessiveness, he became a great teacher and mentor. He had so much more to give, but his life arc up until his death is a remarkable story of human growth. What he has left behind is so much inspiration to grow, overcome and be a better person.
Facts 💯
Reading this made me tear up man. We miss you Bean ❤😔
picture perfect smooth sailing of LeBron??? You could've subbed LeBron for Kobe in what you said and it would've made complete sense. What did Kobe deal with that LeBron hasn't.. aside of being called The Chosen One at age 16..??
@@garretcamp9490Kobe was compared to Jordan, the GOAT, from 18-25, then accused of needing Shaq....he lived up to the comparison and won without Shaq all through serious injuries and never having the physical attributes of a LeBron or a MJ.
You can only relate too him if you're a selfish narcissist
I miss the pre-social media days where basketball players trashed talked each other using books. Wilt vs Kareem is a great example.
Dear Wilt Chumperlane is an all time classic.
spending months of their lives thinking of ways to jab at people they hated
@@Virgil191 exactly!!
He called em that ?@@CrazyxEnigma
@@user-oi1iq6tt4j Yep.
4:49 Ask Jeeves as an NBA sponsor. What a beautiful throwback xD
Secret Base, you guys do a better job of chronicling character development than any other media outlet I know. Whether it be real people or fictional people, it's always a difficult thing to truly appreciate in full, but I come away from your videos feeling enlightened every time.
(And it was very nice of Kobe to inform the whole world he was a different person by cutting his hair from this point forward in his life. 🙂 Keeps things convenient from a spectator's perspective.)
21:50 Also, Shaq dunking on the entire Nets team is always a thing of beauty.
Guy was a human cheat code in his prime. How are you gonna post up a giant?
All this happened 20 years ago. I know this story from the ground up, but the way SB delivers this story makes me even wonder what's gonna happen next lmao. Truly superb content 🔥
Watching this deep dive makes me appreciate one quote so much more:
“This is Dame’s team, yeah im in it but this will always be his team”
-2x League MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo
So who's was it before? Middleton's team?
@@slyfox2022 Thanasis
@@slyfox2022 Khris ain't Dame.
haha Giannis is definetly capping here
@@alxfonso4924it’s the sentiment though. He’s communicating that he doesn’t care who’s team people think it is. That’s great for chemistry
You guys deserve way more recognition. Y’all are so fire 🔥
To not feed prime Shaq just fundamentally ignores how basketball and its physical realities work. That’s true in any era.
Insane self-confidence to do what Kobe does had it’s ups and downs.
part 2 did not disappoint after an absolutely stellar part 1. this series just keeps getting more enthralling! thanks SB!
Secret Base out here having me, a Celtics fan, excited for Lakers content.
The long awaited sequel. This series has been captivating to watch. There’s so much nuance and intricacy to their relationship that these videos are highlighting brilliantly!
Man, the music is on point for this series!! Just perfectly relaxing and easing us into the human nature of the story. Thanks, SB Nation-as many of these as possible please!
SB is by far the best sports channel on RUclips, honestly if this was paid content it would be worth it
Never heard about Kobe cutting his family out of the business. I thought they hated him over his choice of fiance. This makes more sense, but I see Kobe's side of it for sure. Family are notoriously bad business partners.
It’s murky honestly. Roland Lazenby does a great job chronicling it in Showboat. Might be the best book about Kobe Bryant and a great book overall.
He did that in retaliation because of how they felt about Vanessa. Both things are true
@rafaelfermin4619 that's what I was thinking too. Had to be because of how they treated Vanessa
@@rafaelfermin4619 yep...Kobe really had a topsy/turvy relationship with his family when he got into the league. Sadly, they weren't on the best terms when he died. But his family was wary of vanessa, wary that they were marrying so young (especially her), wary of the fact that they didn't have a pre-nup (which they REALLY should have), and Kobe wasn't trying to hear it, and that's what started the rift, which spilled over into the business aspects.
@21:48 encapsulates how dominant Shaq was. This picture of him dunking on all FIVE nets players is ridiculous.
Shaq was lazy and could’ve extended his prime by taking his health seriously and improving his free throw shooting, but he still made the Lakers a contender in all the seasons he played for them. Kobe’s selfishness hurt his team. He was addicted to winning but cared more about being the guy. The Lakers would’ve won so many more rings if Shaq worked on free throws and if Kobe wasn’t so obsessed with being like MJ
Shaq alone didnt make them a contender.
One could argue that if Kobe didn't want to "be like Mike" he would have never worked so hard to get so good. And as the other reply said, Shaq alone could not make LA a dynasty. Even he knew that, even if he worked on his free throws and health. Magic needed Kareem, Mike needed Pippen, etc. No one reaches that level of NBA greatness alone.
Shaq left way too much unfulfilled as a player. As much as he achieved, he (with Kobe) could have done so much more as teammates.
Your explanation of the Luc Longley comparison and the Bulls offence was really well done!
Can we acknowledge how amazing that intro was? That was very well-done, almost felt like an Oscar-winning documentary coming from a RUclips video lol
I've never seen a game of basketball, but I love listening to your videos and watch these deep dives
You know, I already know almost of this Kobe and Shaq beef since many other videos have talked about it, but I’m still fascinated by it each time a video of it comes out.
This is beyond great content. You guys do an amazing job in your research and an equally amazing job in the way you present it. Well done! Shaq & Kobe is one of the richest stories in the history of basketball.
This is the absolute best documentary i’d ever watched about their beef. Salute!
Much like the 90s Bulls, Shaq & Kobe are one of the prime examples of regardless of how much you dislike or outright Hate your co-workers, as long as you can pull it together when it really matters; Results can still happen
& like they say, Winning Cures All (On The Court at least)
And how Phil jackson coaches winning teams
90s Bulls disliked each other?
@@100navat Oh yes throughout their decade of dominance, That locker room was Volatile AF, especially if you read Sam Smith's book The Jordan Rules There were many incidents but some of the main highlights include
• Jordan once kicked a chair after getting just 12 shots in a game & He once destroyed a blackboard after getting ejected from a playoff game
• Calling Stacy King "Doughboy"
• Punching teammates Will Perdue and Steve Kerr in the face
• His all night gambling trips
• And forbidding teammates from passing the ball to Bill Cartwright (This part I get)
Not to mention the never ending feud between Scottie Pippin and Jerry Krause
@@MazeDaGr8you’re wrong for that Cartwright comment😂😂
@@alexanderguerrero347 you mean partly by not coaching them? I'll never cease to be amazed by the fact players don't get benched nor fined when they pull stunts as stupid as refusing to pass, refusing to train, punching teammates. So different in other sports.
21:54 wild how there's literally footage of this exact moment (the ring celebration where they're in the tunnel and Kobe's in the Jordan jacket) and Shaq swapped around what they said to make himself sound cooler
This is one of the greatest videos I have ever seen on RUclips
You know, where we're at, we might get a nod to the old Kobe/Ray Allen beef. Where Ray saw Kobe's near future coming and Kobe got upset because Ray knew him too well once the big brother/dog left.
not gonna touch on that beef but I do want to share one Ray thing: I found this fun little batch of quotes about Kobe's "2000 makes a day" claim that includes some eye-rolling from Ray Allen. couldn't pin down an original source for this text so I didn't include the quotes, but I love it www.basketballforum.com/threads/2-000-makes-a-day-no-wonder-hes-a-gym-rat.35691/
-seth
This is one of the best videos I’ve ever watched! Thank you 🙏🏿
such a great series of videos.
These basket vids have got me hooked I can’t wait for the next one these are phenomenal
I am really enjoying your documentary. This is some good storytelling. I appreciate you and your hard work on this.
Oh hell yeah I love when a reason to live drops during the work day.
This is so good. I know most of this already, even though I was only 11-13 when the Lakers had their 3peat, I was and am a huge basketball fan. And I read Jeff Pearlman's book 3 Ring Circus shortly after it came out. But still. The writing, the presentation, everything about this is just $$$$. Can't wait for the next part in this wonderful series.
You guys do gods work. Keep it up please, and thank you.
Good to know that Shaq categorizes people as either sandwich eaters or salad eaters.
damn Luc Longley just taking strays for no reason
Shaq doesn't like White players. He's been pretty clear about that
One of the few channels where the video ends and I'm sad it's over.
What we're really learning is that Shaq was an early western pioneer of emoji technology
Wow this is some production quality docuseries from a YT channel. Keep doing your thing SB.
The lesson is wait your turn. But DONT lose sight of your big goal. Just wait for the right opportunity.
you telling me a shrimp fried this shaq daddy sandwich
I thought it was a commercial but no, it was a shaq daddy sandwich.
Sensational *Future voice*
Just dropping a comment for the support. A+ work yet again.
Damn Secret Base, you've done it again. I don't even like the Lakers (Suns fan), but you guys make such quality content that I never want to miss an upload. Can't wait for the conclusion of another great series.
Just like part 1, this too was excellent. Thank you.
I can’t wait for part 3,4,5,6,7!
I love the music choice for the 2 part video. Good work
Shaq Daddy sandwich sounds nice….to bad i’m allergic to shrimp
This was a very good episode that I'll have to watch again after I eat because damn that sandwich at the start made me hungry.
I cannot wait for an episode on MJ vs Isaiah Thomas!!!!!
0:23 Shaq "couldn't sleep". I guess thats one way to say he was up all night partying.
Rest in peace Kobe, we love and miss you
another video that's well made, educational and low key meditative and soothing.
The dynamic between the two legit comes down to old school versus new school ideals Shaq being old school as in get the ball to the big man and Kobe being new school as in let the winger make the plays from the outside. Both can be right and both can be wrong. It's just a matter of honestly matchups and that's where the coach comes into play. So if you ask me this comes down to coaching and they should have used those dynamics based off of who they were playing. For example, if they are playing a team that you can expose from the three-point line and the wings you use Kobe if they're playing a team or you can exploit their big men you use Shaq and you explain to both stars why that is the case in each matchup. So this comes down to Phil Jackson being too kumbaya with his stars and not setting the tone for what they should do to win, which is the ultimate goal.
It's not old school vs new School. MJ was a ball dominant winger. But he didn't play with Hakeem. If he did, they would play differently. Kobe was a young buck who wanted his.
While I think you are 100% right, we have to remember that this was the pre-Moneyball era where no one really looked at these kinds of statistics
@@shorewall to be fair to Kobe he put in so much work to become a rising young star. It does suck especially when you’re a Type A workaholic guy like him when you put in so much work only to get sidelined. But Shaq was also the best player in the league at the time, the reigning regular season/ Finals MVP and the triangle as it was originally created was best suited for a guy like him. It’s difficult
Another fantastic video. Thanks Seth.
2 people who don’t care about the fact that basketball is a team sport.
Yo this is amazing i swear
You are the best man loving the series
The Segway from the ending of pt.1 into 2 was poetic
The fact that this content is free is almost unfathomable.
Great choice of music!
Rewinder: 2006 Orange Bowl 3OTs
Beef History: Lindros vs Flyers Organization
Overlap: Greatest College Football Coach (Saban) and the Greatest NFL Coach (Belichick) coaching in the same division
Untitled: Reggie Miller
Untitled: Ken Griffey Junior
Untitled: Jim Kelly
Collapse: Early 90s Bills
Untitled: Red Sox Players (particular Yaz)
Prism: Steph Curry and all those mid major players
Rewinder: The Catch By Willie
Rewinder: Hank Aaron and Bonds breaking the respective HR record
Untitled: Don Nelson
The Early-90's Bills is a good one, but they really didn't collapse until after the Music City Miracle (1999 playoffs).
Another great video 🎉
There is something about healthy competition that brings out the best in people. These two stand as the perfect example. RIP Kobe.
To be regarded as the big brother, shaq was more immature than Kobe. I honestly felt like all shaq has to do was put his arms around Kobe and got the message across a lot better rather than downing Kobe to the media
Shaq regrets his actions today and given how he upon being traded to Miami immediately made sure everyone knew it was Wade's team he knew even then and was just stubborn about it.
Will there be a part 3 to this?
November 7!
@@SecretBaseSBN how many parts in total? Also, thank you for all the efforts you guys are making, absolutely love this series!
@@shikharshukla4832 3!
Been waiting for pt2!
Part 3 is going to be gooood. That 2003-04 season when Shaq and Kobe split up.
Seth, your content is awesome man! appreciate what you do
As up and down and roller coaster of a season it was (until the historic playoff run) the 2000-2001 Lakers remain my all-time favorite NBA single season team ever. That team underachieved in the regular season (still won 56 games) and then won 8 straight to end the regular season before being a historic Allen Iverson game 1 NBA finals performance, away from being the only NBA team ever to SWEEP through the playoffs.
#GuruBasketballKieroSays ahh yes the good ol days of being a Lakers fan in the early 2000s
Best channel on the tube
oh man... next chapters gonna cover some pretty touchy stuff
As much as a player Kobe was. I would have went with shaq too. NO ONE, can stop a healthy and motivated shaq.
@6:06, Chris Dudley demonstrates the perfect full Nelson technique 😂
That’s ask Jeeves logo looks wild on that lakers press background behind fisher. 🤣
People are quick to think that if they were a giant, like Shaq, they’d be better than Shaq. Because they have a better work ethic, or are more competitive, shoot free throws better, etc. But, they aren’t Shaq. And Shaq delivered a modern day three peat in LA. Being critical of a once in a lifetime super athletic giant is beyond stupid.
this series is awesome, thank u
Been such a great series
NEW EPISODE LETS GOOOOOOOO 🎉🎉🎉
Looking at this in hindsight---everything might've worked out with the 3-peat, but it is *insane* that Kobe was insisting a team with the MVP, a ring and a GOAT coach change everything for him--who was just becoming a starter.
"Becoming a starter" Nah that was the lockout year and Phil wasn't coach yet. It was Kobe ascending from All Star to Superstar. Kobe wanted to have his cake and eat it too when that wasn't what would result in winning, he still had legitimate criticism to give Shaq though.
It isn't about that. Imagine you start a company with a friend - and he's brilliant. Probably smarter than you and more naturally gifted - yet he's not putting the hours in that you are into the company. Every time you get a chance to improve the company and yourself - you do it. While your friend lets his natural talent coast and hope everything works out in all your business meetings and dealings.
Wouldn't you feel some type of way about that? Especially when you know that if he gave it his all, you guys would have one of the most successful companies of ALL TIME? I don't know about you, but that would bother me.
Both had their faults, but Kobe's goal was always to become the greatest to ever lace them up. Hence his decisions were based on that - to be the greatest, he needed Shaq to be improving constantly so he could win as many rings as possible. He knew that by staying stagnant, the other teams in the league would catch up. And he was partly right.
@@CxsualtyGaming Excellent point.
Kobe was still worse than Shaq tho, that’s like pippin saying he should he the shot over Micheal
@@boi1409 1. Comparing Scottie to Kobe Bryant is an insult and not even close to the skill levels of Shaq and Kobe
2. Regardless of who is better, that has no relevance on the attitude one should take toward building a team. If you're a leader (which Shaq wanted to be), you need to continue to try to improve to lead the team at all times and not take "rest" on company time like Shaq would.
3. Shaq would get fat all off season and rely on Kobe to carry him for the first half of the season. Do you find that reasonable?
All I know is Kobe with Shaq's body would have 8 rings, and Shaq with Kobe's body would be working at the liquor store round my block
Winning 3 straight championships is something else despite all these turmoils surrounding between them.
Lucky for them they played the weakest Finals comp ever. And got gifted the worst officiated series in NBA history 😂
@@TheGr8-1FACTS tho. Ppl love to meatride this duo so much it's comedy 🤣
As a kid growing up watching Shaq and Kobe, I didn’t know all of this was happening behind the scenes and I absolutely love this. Can’t wait for the next part
seems like the lakers r really behind shaq. can’t wait to see where kobe ends up!
The Black Baywatch chick! 😆 Sure shaq had a shaq daddy there 😆
Kobe was such a mental assassin. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of this drama was a ploy to keep his opponents off balance. In interviews, Kobe would talk about strategizing defence to double team a guy who just signed a big contract and deny the guy in a contract year in order to cause internal turmoil on the opposing team. Dude literally might’ve been more mental than Jordan 4real.
These are amazing. 🔥
HOLY CRAP AN AD FOR ASK JEEVES
#10 in the still @20:16 😆looks like a child wandered onto the court in the middle of a game.
Seth and secret base are the goated combo. these episodes are amazing, absolutely fantastic
Their last ring Kobe was just 24 and shaq was 30… If Shaq would’ve just dedicated himself more and the personalities/egos meshed, I can confidently say they win at minimum 3 more rings together. And Kobe would’ve took over that throne in the 2nd run getting his Finals MVPs. What could’ve been…
Narration on point like a movie 🍿
Please tell us there will be a part 3
there will be a part 3, the final part. tuesday 11/7
Can't wait for the 2004 Finals
Cant wait for next episode
Best duo in my book
Kareem with the skyhook
Magic with the no look
Was leaving ‘em so shook.
It is a team game
The crown’s on King James
Jack Nicholson courtside
Oooh look the score’s tied.
Wham! Don’t give a damn punk
Kobe down the middle, throw to Shaq... SLAM DUNK!
The story for me
Is Horry for three 2, 1, ANNHH!
Fire
If LeBron’s there than AD should be as well