1. I agree that healthcare should be a human-right just as food and water. And it should be government-run so that it’s available for everyone. People on social care don’t have a dime to spare. I know because i’ve been there. 2. I agree with you. 3. I like that everything go’s thru my GP, my GP knows me and the health care system best. For example this year I went to my GP to discuss my mental-health and got a referral to the POH-GGZ ( sorry I don’t know the term in english) and I went to see her and told my story and she believed she could help me and because she works in the doctorsoffice it’s completely free. If I went straight to the psychologist it would have cost me money. Sadly covid put it on pause. 4. You guys have wait times for the GP? Before corona my GP had every morning at 9am a walk-in hour (spreekuur) you can just walk in and see your GP. On top of that you can call to the doctorsoffice and if they think it’s needed they make an appointment. Depending on the urgency it takes at most 1/2 days. And if you call outside of business hours or the weekend they will see you if it can’t wait till (monday) morning. 5. I think its a good thing our doctors are careful with antibiotics, resistance to it is an increasing risk and as of yet there are almost no alternatives.
I think GPs run their practices differently. I think some might have better practices than others. Personally, I prefer therapists over psychologist. I think if the system allowed people to freely go to a therapist without a referral and it still be covered it would be better. There is no reason that a GP needs to do that.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 Do not underestimate the role of a general practitioner he / she is also a specialist, while a specialist only looks at his specialism, the general practitioner has the overview, the specialists, hospitals, therapists, labs report to the general practitioner. he / she will notice overlaps and conflicts. when I had a heart attack in the middle of the night, my GP was at my bedside in the hospital early in the morning. 4 weeks ago I had another heart attack, my wife calls the ambulance directly and the hospital informs the GP the GP also usually knows the family and recognizes genetically weak spots.
So you want a public healthcare system that covers everything for everybody? That means everyone gets full coverage. This would increase premiums for a lot of people (or taxes as you say). In the current system you can choose how much coverage you want and thus how much you pay per month. I choose to have minimum coverage and maximum deductible, because I am fortunate to rarely need to see a doctor. I like to have this option of how much coverage I want and how much risk I am willing to take.
I disagree that it would be a lot more expensive. The taxes I paid for healthcare in Korea was about the monthly payment I pay to my insurance company in the Netherlands.
But that's like comparing apples and oranges. Healthcare costs in other countries are not necessarily comparable to those over here. Doctor wages may be different, costs of medicine, etc. If you go from a system with partial coverage (that most people currently have) to a system of full coverage for everybody, the cost is gonna go up.
We need gate keepers. Because of universal healthcare, we grow older. Growing older means more medical problems, more medical problems means more pressure on the health system. And we just do not have enough people wanting to become a doctor. Or become a doctor with the specialism we need. Freedom of choice. And having everybody run to a specialist whenever they feel like it; wouldn't work here; way too much hypochonders. It would increase the waiting lists instead of getting them down. Paracetamol. We actually have a running joke about that: A GP calls a plumber. Doctor: " I need your help, I seem to have a problem with my piping; it started leaking. " Plumber: " Don't panic, just put in a paracetamol and when it still leaks in two days, make an appointment and I'll take a look at it. " Doctor: " How's that going to help?!! " Plumber: " No idea, but that's what you always tell me when I call you. " Insurance; it's under fire; privatization hasn't brought us what people thought it would. The idea was the market would start competing, instead they made deals with competitors to keep pricing up. Some companies even have share holders getting half a billion each year; while hospitals went bankrupt. Sufficient to say it didn't work out as we thought. On top of that the Ministry of Health went the American way; being Minister of the department of Health went from wanting the best for the people towards looking like a job application; giving the insurance companies more and more power. It's in a downhill spiral. Although there is consensus to change it back to non-profit, there is little done to make it happen.
There needs to be a balanced more so than a gate keeper, but I think I already expressed that opinion. I find that Korea had a great system. No gate keeper and everything worked fine. There are a lot of elderly in Korea that are getting their needs taken care of and I never heard that it was a burden that wasn’t able to be taken care of by their healthcare system. I think there more ways to look at healthcare than just the western ways and the US is NOT an example of what should be tried
@@knowingthenetherlands662 I agree, but consider this; we have a gatekeeper and stíl the waiting lists are annoyingly long. I just think we lack capacity more than anything else. And what is most disturbing; The Ministry of Health has put a maximum on the number of patients being helped on some treatments to keep costs down. When I said our healthcare system is in a downward spiral - I wasn't kidding. It's more than showing cracks or crumbling. I'm old enough to remember the time when we didn't have this rigid system. As a civil servant I had private insurance and didn't need a note from my GP to make an appointment with a specialist (regular insurance did however). Yes, I know, I had a privilege. Very unfair, but also very missed. Me bad person. ; ) Anyway, the whole "HAP arts" thing (Huisartsenpost) was created when waiting lists became a problem, ER's couldn't handle the number of patients walking in anymore - which everybody could do.
De privatisering en de competitie drang. Is het domste wat ze konden doen. De verzekeraars hebben hierdoor heel veel macht gekregen. De verzekeraars bepalen wat vergoed wordt of niet. Daarbij worden de kosten als leidraad genomen en niet wat de beste behandeling is. As a psychiatrisch patient is de private markt ook te belangrijk geworden. Daar zijn ze gelukkig achter. De verzekeraars zijn ook hier de baas. Waardoor dsm-V leidend is geworden. Wat een achterlijke classificatie is. Ik snap dat de zorg betaalbaar moet blijven, maar privatiseren is echt heel dom gebleken. BTW met antibiotica moet erg opgepast worden ivm resistentie dat wordt echt een probleem. Mensen kunnen nu soms al niet meer geholpen worden.
De privatisering is geel domste. Why did they change it if it was working? America is not a model for a lot of things, especially healthcare coverage and cost. Hopefully some reform will happen. I really need to learn more about the mental healthcare coverage. I have a wonderful therapist. She informed me that next year there are some changes coming, but there isn't a lot of information on how. I am hoping the changes are for the better, but unfortunately, usually governments don't make changes for the better. I do think antibiotics do need to be given with caution, but maybe not as strictly as it currently is. I have heard some stories from coworkers about issues they have had and the lengths and pain they had to go through to get anything prescribed.
Health care is not a right, it is a privilige. In this country, the government forces everybody to have basic insurance that covers almost everything you need (except dental care). Only then it is a right. In most countries in the world it is not. Dutch insurance companies are not making a profit on that basic coverage. In the Netherlands, the medical profession is geared towards the idea that the body will take care of 99% of defects. Otherwise the care is too expensive for everybody to pay for. For mental problems you don't need to go to the GP. Depending on your insurance you have a certain amount of free sessions a year. Same for a physiotherapist. I still don't understand your aversion against a GP. I think it is an excellent system that is personal, free and saves society a lot of money as they are trained to see serious things and will save specialists for unnecessary treatments. The real test for the health care system is the answer to three questions: 1. How old are people getting? 2. How many healthy years do they have? 3. How many days a year are people too sick to work? The Dutch system scores as one of the best in the world on those questions. Far better than the American system where they give people opioïds where they turn into heroïn addicts and commit criminal acts against humanity every day for subscribing antibiotics unnecessarily.
I am not against GP’s. Their role is important, but I think in the Netherlands they are wearing too many hats. There are more ways to keep healthcare costs low than the options that the Netherlands uses. Korea has a good balance. Other countries probably do too, but I can’t speak from personal experience to that.
1. I agree that healthcare should be a human-right just as food and water. And it should be government-run so that it’s available for everyone. People on social care don’t have a dime to spare. I know because i’ve been there.
2. I agree with you.
3. I like that everything go’s thru my GP, my GP knows me and the health care system best.
For example this year I went to my GP to discuss my mental-health and got a referral to the POH-GGZ ( sorry I don’t know the term in english) and I went to see her and told my story and she believed she could help me and because she works in the doctorsoffice it’s completely free. If I went straight to the psychologist it would have cost me money.
Sadly covid put it on pause.
4. You guys have wait times for the GP?
Before corona my GP had every morning at 9am a walk-in hour (spreekuur) you can just walk in and see your GP. On top of that you can call to the doctorsoffice and if they think it’s needed they make an appointment.
Depending on the urgency it takes at most 1/2 days.
And if you call outside of business hours or the weekend they will see you if it can’t wait till (monday) morning.
5. I think its a good thing our doctors are careful with antibiotics, resistance to it is an increasing risk and as of yet there are almost no alternatives.
I think GPs run their practices differently. I think some might have better practices than others. Personally, I prefer therapists over psychologist. I think if the system allowed people to freely go to a therapist without a referral and it still be covered it would be better. There is no reason that a GP needs to do that.
@@knowingthenetherlands662 Do not underestimate the role of a general practitioner he / she is also a specialist, while a specialist only looks at his specialism, the general practitioner has the overview, the specialists, hospitals, therapists, labs report to the general practitioner. he / she will notice overlaps and conflicts.
when I had a heart attack in the middle of the night, my GP was at my bedside in the hospital early in the morning.
4 weeks ago I had another heart attack, my wife calls the ambulance directly and the hospital informs the GP
the GP also usually knows the family and recognizes genetically weak spots.
privatization is also known as Americanization
makes sense
So you want a public healthcare system that covers everything for everybody? That means everyone gets full coverage. This would increase premiums for a lot of people (or taxes as you say). In the current system you can choose how much coverage you want and thus how much you pay per month. I choose to have minimum coverage and maximum deductible, because I am fortunate to rarely need to see a doctor. I like to have this option of how much coverage I want and how much risk I am willing to take.
I disagree that it would be a lot more expensive. The taxes I paid for healthcare in Korea was about the monthly payment I pay to my insurance company in the Netherlands.
But that's like comparing apples and oranges. Healthcare costs in other countries are not necessarily comparable to those over here. Doctor wages may be different, costs of medicine, etc. If you go from a system with partial coverage (that most people currently have) to a system of full coverage for everybody, the cost is gonna go up.
We need gate keepers. Because of universal healthcare, we grow older. Growing older means more medical problems, more medical problems means more pressure on the health system.
And we just do not have enough people wanting to become a doctor. Or become a doctor with the specialism we need. Freedom of choice.
And having everybody run to a specialist whenever they feel like it; wouldn't work here; way too much hypochonders. It would increase the waiting lists instead of getting them down.
Paracetamol. We actually have a running joke about that:
A GP calls a plumber.
Doctor: " I need your help, I seem to have a problem with my piping; it started leaking. "
Plumber: " Don't panic, just put in a paracetamol and when it still leaks in two days, make an appointment and I'll take a look at it. "
Doctor: " How's that going to help?!! "
Plumber: " No idea, but that's what you always tell me when I call you. "
Insurance; it's under fire;
privatization hasn't brought us what people thought it would. The idea was the market would start competing, instead they made deals with competitors to keep
pricing up. Some companies even have share holders getting half a billion each year; while hospitals went bankrupt. Sufficient to say it didn't work out as we thought.
On top of that the Ministry of Health went the American way; being Minister of the department of Health went from wanting the best for the people towards looking like a job application; giving the insurance companies more and more power. It's in a downhill spiral.
Although there is consensus to change it back to non-profit, there is little done to make it happen.
There needs to be a balanced more so than a gate keeper, but I think I already expressed that opinion. I find that Korea had a great system. No gate keeper and everything worked fine. There are a lot of elderly in Korea that are getting their needs taken care of and I never heard that it was a burden that wasn’t able to be taken care of by their healthcare system. I think there more ways to look at healthcare than just the western ways and the US is NOT an example of what should be tried
@@knowingthenetherlands662 I agree, but consider this;
we have a gatekeeper and stíl the waiting lists are annoyingly long.
I just think we lack capacity more than anything else.
And what is most disturbing; The Ministry of Health has put a maximum on the number of patients being helped on some treatments to keep costs down.
When I said our healthcare system is in a downward spiral - I wasn't kidding. It's more than showing cracks or crumbling.
I'm old enough to remember the time when we didn't have this rigid system. As a civil servant I had private insurance and didn't need a note from my GP to make an appointment with a specialist (regular insurance did however). Yes, I know, I had a privilege. Very unfair, but also very missed. Me bad person. ; )
Anyway, the whole "HAP arts" thing (Huisartsenpost) was created when waiting lists became a problem, ER's couldn't handle the number of patients walking in anymore - which everybody could do.
De privatisering en de competitie drang. Is het domste wat ze konden doen. De verzekeraars hebben hierdoor heel veel macht gekregen. De verzekeraars bepalen wat vergoed wordt of niet. Daarbij worden de kosten als leidraad genomen en niet wat de beste behandeling is. As a psychiatrisch patient is de private markt ook te belangrijk geworden. Daar zijn ze gelukkig achter. De verzekeraars zijn ook hier de baas. Waardoor dsm-V leidend is geworden. Wat een achterlijke classificatie is. Ik snap dat de zorg betaalbaar moet blijven, maar privatiseren is echt heel dom gebleken.
BTW met antibiotica moet erg opgepast worden ivm resistentie dat wordt echt een probleem. Mensen kunnen nu soms al niet meer geholpen worden.
De privatisering is geel domste. Why did they change it if it was working? America is not a model for a lot of things, especially healthcare coverage and cost. Hopefully some reform will happen.
I really need to learn more about the mental healthcare coverage. I have a wonderful therapist. She informed me that next year there are some changes coming, but there isn't a lot of information on how. I am hoping the changes are for the better, but unfortunately, usually governments don't make changes for the better.
I do think antibiotics do need to be given with caution, but maybe not as strictly as it currently is. I have heard some stories from coworkers about issues they have had and the lengths and pain they had to go through to get anything prescribed.
You got hit by a car? You are Dutch!!
Sure did! I had to have surgery on my leg.
Health care is not a right, it is a privilige. In this country, the government forces everybody to have basic insurance that covers almost everything you need (except dental care). Only then it is a right. In most countries in the world it is not. Dutch insurance companies are not making a profit on that basic coverage. In the Netherlands, the medical profession is geared towards the idea that the body will take care of 99% of defects. Otherwise the care is too expensive for everybody to pay for.
For mental problems you don't need to go to the GP. Depending on your insurance you have a certain amount of free sessions a year. Same for a physiotherapist.
I still don't understand your aversion against a GP. I think it is an excellent system that is personal, free and saves society a lot of money as they are trained to see serious things and will save specialists for unnecessary treatments.
The real test for the health care system is the answer to three questions: 1. How old are people getting? 2. How many healthy years do they have? 3. How many days a year are people too sick to work? The Dutch system scores as one of the best in the world on those questions. Far better than the American system where they give people opioïds where they turn into heroïn addicts and commit criminal acts against humanity every day for subscribing antibiotics unnecessarily.
I am not against GP’s. Their role is important, but I think in the Netherlands they are wearing too many hats. There are more ways to keep healthcare costs low than the options that the Netherlands uses. Korea has a good balance. Other countries probably do too, but I can’t speak from personal experience to that.