HVAC technician here. What you created was the harshest water slug machine I've ever seen. When we pull a perfect vacuum (down to 500 microns maximum) we have to let in the liquid refrigerant VERY slowly or else it will destroy the compressor, especially newer ones that have been re-regulated by the EPA to be more efficient in the states. Waterslugging has the potential to ruin joints, internal mechanisms, and likely your radiator fins. However, you can totally prevent this by pulling a vacuum (with the fittings, because with proper fittings, you should get near a perfect vacuum if your joints don't leak), closing the valve on the tube, removing the other end off of the vacuum, filling that tube with water, plugging the end with your thumb while you push that end of the tube into a bucket of water so that it is completely filled with water, and then CRACK the valve open SLIGHTLY to slowly bleed the water in, letting it flow without much speed so that it gently flushes across your joints and fins. Edit: actually, it may not be *that* bad considering your loading it into the accumulator instead of directly into delicate points of your water loop, but it's still a good idea to slowly bleed the water into your system.
Why Not Just Put A valve At The End Of The hose? Also These radiators Are Made For Positive Pressure And Are SUPER CHEAP IN CONSTRUCTION! i Would Fear That The Sound He Was Hearing Was The Smaller Tubes In The radiator Collapsing Shut! Effectively Ruining The Cooling Capacity Of The radiator!
@@kevinlsims7330 A valve at the end of the hose will still have a few grams of air as you connect the hose to the service valve. ofc my background is an HVAC technician, and so my idea of a perfect job is ensuring there are no contaminants whatsoever.
You ned a 3 way Y splitter with 2 valves one for vacuum and one for fill. The one for the fill will go back to a small gallon bucket with a hole and another fitting with a valve. just before the valve at the Y fitting there will be another fitting with a bleeding port on it so you can pre fill the length of feed hose. Close all valves on the feed side. Open all the valves on the vacuum side and pull a vacuum. Close the vacuum side. Open top valve at the bucket and them open the valve at the Y. Yes some air will get in there, but dam it will work near perfectly. I just got all my fittings in to finish my loop I just may try it. I just concerned I may damage something pulling to m uch of a vacuum. Sory was just thinking out loud when I read your reply. I was a dealership tech for over 20yrs. Everytime I filled a cooling system I pondered this idea and was always surprised none of the big companies had a kit to do this.
@@theluggage7131 That was my first idea to suggest, however there may be air pockets in the system doing it that way and the water will flow right past those air pockets.
Yeah, like several people have been saying, a secondary feature of the Aqua Computer Leakshield is to fill the computer by pulling a vacuum. I picked it up for the leak protection but found this secondary feature to be very useful as well.
If possible, add a catch pot between the computer and the pump. You want a place for liquid to stop before it runs through the pump. An old reservoir would be good enough. You can also pull the vacuum from the fill port while filling from the drain port. You won't need to pull "max vacuum" to get a good fill ratio.
I built a liquid reservoir for doing carbon fiber vacuuming. It's literally just a length of pvc, two caps, and a few holes/fittings. Then you could pull liquid while you pull the vacuum. I wonder if you could get a fitting like what they use to siphon wine where it doesn't open until you touch the bottom of the liquid container. Then you could pull a vacuum in your fill tube and hold the vacuum until it's in the liquid.
@@richiebricker that's not what they're saying is happening, aside from any residual water that didn't get blown out during the draining step. A large enough reservoir between the drain valve and the vacuum pump would allow him to drain the system into the reservoir by using the vacuum to pull the liquid (by pulling a vacuum on the reservoir, essentially), and then he could refill the system by reversing the order, placing the cooling system between the pump and the reservoir of new coolant, in one step instead of two
Aquacomputer actually has a vacuumpump for a PC waterloop, its called Leakshield. It also prevents small leaks over time by keeping a small vaccum in your PC.
Hey Jay, I've been filling my PC with a fluid vacuum hand pump for ages. I used one that is meant to be used to bleed automotive brakes. I don't pull vacuum on the whole system though, I use the vacuum to pull fluid through the loop at the highest point to ensure a complete fill. This way also tends to pull all the air pockets out as well.
So there was this product that Linus tested something like 3 or 4 years ago now that was called "leak shield" and basically what it did was it drew a negative pressure on the water loop which helped to fill it this way too. It uses a piezo pump which is crazy in my opinion but that's largely what I want next time I build a PC, whenever that is.
It's being sold since a while now, about 2 years IIRC. 'Aqua Computer Leakshield' (german company). It's main use is drawing negativ pressure while the loop runs which prevents fluid from spilling if there are small punctures for some reason. Hence the name leakshield. Filling the loop by pulling a vacuum is more of an additional use of the system. Sadly, outside of Germany (and somewhat EU) Aqua Computer, Watercool and TechN are barely known as it seems. Those 3 are german brands with awesome custom loop stuff.
Im currently building a system with a leakshield, that video is what got me into watercooling, or at least gave me the confidence to try it out for the first time.
Got one. LOVE the damn thing. saved my 7900xtx computer shut down while gaming with all my leds flashing red. Checked and one of the L connector above my videocard was leaking :P
Hay Jay, you can improve it: if the vacuum pump was hooked in a place of the topoff screw plug instead, with additional overfill bottle in that line (hose from the topoff hole goes to the bottom of the bottle, vacuum pump sucks the air from the entire system through the lid of overfill bottle), and the drain pipe was dipped in the new fluid, filled already, sucking in air from the drain pipe like at 5:47 would't happen. Before vacuuming the loop, a bit of fluid could be sucked in up the drain pipe through the drain valve, than after closing it off, we create the vacuum in the loop through the topoff hole. When vacuum is achived, the drain valve will be opened until the fuid will reach the overfill bottle. An overfill valve, placed instead of the topoff screw plug, would stop the overflow, than drain valve would close off the fully filled cooling loop. For the finish, you just unscrew the hoses from valves, and the overfilled fluid goes from the bottle back into the storage container.
A pressure test is fairly easy. Pressurize it to the approximate amount you will use later. If you can, let it sit to see if it will leak over time. Once you know it can handle it, you are good to go.
Not a problem at all. The cooling pump itself operates on vacuum, it sucks (and pushes) the depending on what side of the vanes. It will only be the negative pressure needed to draw up the fluid. It's not a pressure system like a car radiator they changed pressure when temperatures rise. It's more like a brake bleeder. Jay got negative readings because he plugged the inlet, but if you are sucking liquid, it will be like sucking a straw. Benefits of this method vs pressure is it works better at filling the air voids by sucking the air out. Air can compress, so it tends to leave pockets in the high spots, just like when filling a car cooling system. Interesting for sure, and one I may try if I ever get a user serviceable radiator.
I did try doing this a year ago because I was doing a build in an ncase m1 with a t-line instead of a res. But since I am not a car person I must of messed something up. (I ended up just filling it up normally) You are the first to do it successfully though
the vacuum pump should be at the top of the system, and the fill tube be at the lowest. also, you need to run the vacuum pump through a jar, to protect the vacuum pump from sucking fluids. You could use that same jar, to pull clean fluid through the system to flush out the old gunk. < Automotive Radiator servicing>
there is some mist around the pump in the video , @8:45 maybe it is blowing/spraying water out the outlet nipple... not so great for air vac pump for sure, i have same pump and it does not put oil vapors out like stated, makes me think it is water mist...
@@TomislavReskovic This is oil/water vapour that you are seeing coming out of the vacuum pump. This is normal and part of the process of vacuuming as it the water or moisture being pulled out of the loop is being boiled off in the vacuuming process.
🤣 that type of vacuum pump definitely doesn't need "protection from fluids" it's designed to pump either flashed refrigerants or liquid refrigerant (depending on what refrigerant is being used)
Also that "mist" as Jay mentioned in the video correctly isn't the liquid. If anyone was paying attention to the entire process he vacuumed prior to adding the new liquid. ALL of those types of vacuum pumps expell a mist of heated oil out the vent port.
To evac a system all you need is a container in between the vac source and the cooling system. The vacuum pulls the vac at the top of the container (so that fluid does not get pulled in) and a hose extends to the bottom of the container where the fluid is accumulated. It's just like a one-man vacuum side brake bleed, like a Mityvac which I use.
If your rigid tube system has a leak in a joint during initial testing, you could use the vacuum to pull in sealant. I've seen woodworkers pull glue into a fine crack with just a shop-vac on the opposite side. Brilliant video!
Alternatively, just connect the drain (with a ball valve) to a hose going to water, and connect the vacuum source to the fill port. Then turn on the pump and allow it to pull in the fluid until it's full. This would allow you to not have to deal with putting the system under an intense vacuum
For what it's worth, Aquacomputer already developed a vacuum system for PCs. Their LeakShield system uses a tiny vacuum pump to both prevent leaks and can also suction fluid into the reservoir. Its just not as fast or as cool as using an automotive vacuum pump. Alphacool also has an external unit call the ES Orbiter that does similar but requires using QDCs; you fill it with fluid, and it pumps it into your system while pulling out the air, and then you quick-disconnect the Orbiter and connect the two QDCs within the PC to themselves and done; air-free loop.
I'd like to know more about what is causing the noise coming from the radiators while under vacuum. My concern is the fins detaching from the fluid channels and losing cooling efficiency because of less surface contact.
My concern is they collapse under vacuum then don't reinflate (or lack of a better way to describe it) when reg pressure is reapplied, so they don't have the same surface area/volume to radiate heat in future
@@PrepareToDie0 also some of the pipes might be sintered so causing those to flex too much might break off small pieces of metal that will float around.
I have a tool for vehicle coolant systems that does the same thing using Venturi effect instead of vacuum pump it's a bit safer for the rads, just need to start the filling process slowly so you don't damage the delicate microfins of the water blocks by having them get suddenly get hit by a rushing wall of water
As long as the vacuum isn't too strong it works. Too much vacuum and it ends up sucking air through fittings defeating the purpose. I have that exact same Amazon vacuum but I use it to vacuum out auto AC systems to recharge them for far cheaper than a shop charges.
This is how I fill mine using leakshield, essentially. The leakshield prevents leaks by creating a vacuum, it has a fill mode that uses a vacuum to pull fluid into the system. EDIT: JAY, AQUACOMPUTER BUILT IT INTO LEAKSHIELD. THEY DID IT FIRST.
I was expecting this method to be fast, but DAMN that is SO fast! But I think pulling a bit less intense vacuum might be better for the parts in the loop in the long run :D
I just bought this same case for a new build, I also just installed a huge mini split on my shop. I was literally thinking about doing this with this build. I open up youtube, and here you are in my subs, posted today! CRAZY!!!
@@avroarchitect1793 Yeah, you don't need barely any vacuum if you connect the pump to the fill port (highest in the system) and the fill tube to the drain (lowest in the system). Then you only need enough to lift the water from the container to the top of the res, 1-2 inHg is enough (1inHg = 345 mm H2O). Add a catch container between the system and the pump (you could use a spare res using two ports at the top or use a jar and some barbs) to protect the pump and you have a nice system.
@@MikrySoft I have used a large mason jar with a couple of npt-hose barb connections to make a water separator, using a coupling cut in half as nuts for the pipe thread to attach them to the thin jar lid. Works quite well, we use these kind of pumps all the time to pull vacuum on double wall, vacuum monitored fuel tanks. They always have water in them if the seal leaks, or fuel if the tank has failed internally. Neither of which need to go through the vac. pump.
I make silicone molds to make resin parts for random projects and I use a vacuum pump to degas (remove air and other gases) from the liquid silicone and resin. I also am planning a new computer build and I want to try water cooling...this just made that a bunch easier!! Thank Jay
What you should do is put a fitting on the bottom of a bucket of some kind so you can full the bucket with coolant and plug the hose going to the bucket fitting. If the bucket is on a stand above the fitting in the system all the air in the hose will rise into the bucket. This would also be a good setup if you need to fill a bunch of systems really quickly. After the system is full you can just move the hose to the top of the system to top off.
And if he has a closeable valve on the bottom of the hose, then the hose will also stay full of liquid if any is left and not have air in it either that could be pushed into the system.
There already is that cute little manual pump for testing a loop, with a gauge too. It should be child's play to reverse it on the cheap... and yes, Aquacomputer's leakshield.
Hi Jay. I work in the HVAC industry. i use vac pumps all the time. Ideally you'd need a manifold that you can vacuum down and charge (fill). Before you charge, you need to purge so you minimise air getting back into your system. In the automotive industry, you can fill your brakes this way too, much faster than the pump and bleed method. They use a bleed line into a fluid catch bottle (resevoir) which is then connected to the vacuum pump. That way to you empty your brake system of fluid and also fill it. E.g. Brake fluid bottle feeding brake fluid resevoir, bleed line to catch resevoir connected to vac pump. i siimilar inline system can work for PC watercooling. Alternatively, HVAC style would be: -Drain port connected to gauge manifold (so you can open and shut the line), vac/charge line from gauge manifold to catch resevoir then connected to vacuum pump. -When system is empty and holding a vacuum, shut off gauge manifold valve, disconnect vacuum pump and catch resevoir. -connect new fluid bottle. Seal it if possible (could be a bottle cap that you could modify with a hose that goes through it). -raise and invert new fluid bottle so it is above the lowest point of the gauge manifold and purge the line of air by cracking open the fill line/hose on the manifold end. this should leak out some fluid pushing air out. -place fluid bottle back on the table. -you should be ready to open the gauge manifold vavle to the system and charge (fill) without air bubbles. i hope that works. That is pretty much a simple way that we use in the HVAC industry. Recover, Vacuum, Purge, Recharge. Though we vacuum down to around 500 microns and check to see if it holds that for at least 15 minutes. Air in a HVAC system is really bad. Less air in a water cooled system can't hurt either, just like car radiator systems, less air, less problems with air locking, steam bubbles, pump airration etc.
You can use a T with two valves at the end, so you can put one tube to the vacuum pump and the other one to the bottle so that you don't have to take the tube out to the air. Also, a thinner tube would minimize the dead volume of air, but it might fill slightly slower. Going lower on pressure won't help much.
The beautiful thing about this is that by using a vacuum, you've already pre-tested the system for leaks before even filling it, without having to do a separate pressure test (although it probably wouldn't hurt to do that when building it anyway. A second test also doesn't hurt, sometimes things might ... move between build and first fill, esp. if you have multiple hands on it.) Very efficient
Hey Jay, nice idea, but a litten bit late. Check Aquacomputers Leakshield. It uses a slight vacuum (negativ 300-400mbar) You can use this to Check for leaks in a newly build System, to Fill the system throgh a Port and to degas the system. (As well as a leak protection)
Leakshield is a very nice looking piece of kit, especially with the QoL features it offers! Shame it doesn't fit on my Corsair XD5 or I'd grab one in a heartbeat for the peace of mind alone.
I used to do automotive A/C repair. The vapor you saw coming out of your pump vent was mostly water vapor, from the water that was still in the system, boiling when the vacuum ( lack of pressure) drops enough. Water will boil at room temperature in a vacuum. Remember, your vacuum pump is filled with (usually) mineral oil. Water vapor will turn the oil milky over time. Make sure to change it when it does and keep it filled to the proper level. I've seen people ruin vacuum pumps this way. To remove the fluid under vacuum, put an accumulator more than large enough to hold all the fluid in the system in line with the vacuum pump. Pull the accumulator under vacuum first and then open the valve while continuing to run the vacuum pump. I would suggest using a fairly long hose between the accumulator and the pump and keep the pump higher than the accumulator. It works pretty well.
Pulling inspiration from the auto field is brilliant! I recommend putting a vacuum trap between the drain and the vacuum pump to protect your pump from stray drops or schmoo in the system. To go EVEN FASTER, you could hook up a tube, valve, and jug to the fill port too. Apply vacuum, close one valve, open another, FWOOSH!
11:34 "Don't pull out the water using a vacuum pump" So, in the world of composites (i.e. fibre glass & carbon fibre), if you're gonna do a lay-up that requires vacuum, you put a catch-can type thing before the vacuum pump for any resin that makes it's way to the vacuum pump to drip in to instead It's basically a small sealed tub that has a lid with 2 fittings on the top, and you can pull a vacuum normally, but any liquids that get in to the tube can't enter the pump
Great vid! Just have to note.. Used to work in HVAC, and we didn't use vacuum to fill refrigerant - but to ensure there was no moisture in the system. Certain compressor oils would become acidic and you could ruin the compressor pistons if there was moisture in there. The capacity of the moisture filter of the system is just meant to handle the last residues after vacuum boils any water away inside the system. This is also what might break internal components if you have a leak on the return side, as moisture would be pulled in and react with the compressor oils and make acid.
I've been wondering why no one has done this yet, coming from a mechanic standpoint. This is how I've been doing car radiators for years so you can make sure there is no air behind the heater core. Great video Jay
This has been around for a long time in the automotive world. Check out Air Lift Vacuum Bleeders. It uses a shop air compressor to blow air through a venturi that pulls a vacuum on an empty cooling system, then you close one valve and open the other which goes into a coolant bottle and the system fills itself. No running a car gradually adding more while squeezing hoses and burping the system. It works fantastically well.
as a refrigeration engineer in the uk, you have sparked my geeky interest 😀use a set of 4 port refrigeration (HVAC) gauge set, you could have a small tire inflator on one port, vac on another, drain on another and system oulet on another 🥰
@JaysTwoCents you should take one of your radiators sitting around to see if the vacuum is actually doing any damage to the rad, otherwise this is actually a good idea Also, they make automotive reservoirs that are made for vacuum evacuation that separate the air flow from the fluid.
This was part of my concern as well. PC components (for water cooling)* are not designed to operate under much pressure, much less a vacuum. At -29 psi, though it may not seem like much, is actually enough to implode containers you might not expect to do so. I'm sure there are plenty of videos to demonstrate this. A steel drum for instance will withstand multiple atmospheres under pressure, but will collapse under less than one.
I've always used a tiny aquarium pump. Line in from the lowest point (typically your drain), line out at the highest and that line is ran back into the bucket/fluid source so that the pump can cycle the fluid through the system however long you want it to before closing the loop up. Also works for rad flushing.
Jay, to expand on the use of automotive tools and making this a bit more reachable, how about a "mighty Vac" hand pump like you would use for bleeding brakes? Especially if you adapt a larger reservoir to hold the old coolant, it could be a one step solution. Also you could add a tee fitting and 2 more ball valves one to your vacume, one to the new fluid this would then allow you to not have the air introduced from the new fluid line.
Hey Jay, I am a VW tech and we use a tool that can remove the air from the fill hose to eliminate introducing air into the system when filling. It works GREAT!
This is what makes RUclips stand out vs the crap that's on TikTok or Insta or whatever. Informative content which is actually useful. And entertaining at the same time. Thank you!
Hi Jay. Being inspired by composite manufacturing, you should have two ports. One for vacuum on top of the reservoir with a liquid trap. That means you make vacuum on a container then you have a hose connected from that container to the top of the reservoir. You put a valve at the reservoir. Then you have another hose on the lower part of you reservoir, better yet on a low part of your loop. You put a valve there and connect the hose with the coolant. Then with both valves open you start sucking until the coolant passes the coolant valve. Then you close the coolant valve and continue sucking. Once you reach your maximum vacuum you slowly open the coolant valve and let it fill the loop until some coolant reaches the trap container. Then you close both valves and are done.
Breaking the rule and commenting before fully watching, but if this works... I have a vacuum pump for recharging car AC systems that may find its way indoors on the next loop maintenance day.
If you have another port you could use as a “bleed line” you could fill your system using one of the methods we use with aircraft brakes. We hook up a pressure pot, essentially a garden sprayer with a connector on the end, and then pump fluid through the system which forces out all the air
Jay all you need to drain the system is an air tight bucket inline with the vacuum and two pipes similar to a thumper in a moonshine setup where the coolant can drain into without going into the pump.
The reason you can't pull the vacuum past 24" is because of the water left in the system. Water boils under a vacuum which will cause the pressure to rise. On a new build you might hit 29" but it might require running the pump for 24 hours depending on the humidity in the area.
I'm pretty sure the fact that he's just plopping the tube over the flare fitting is his main reason to only hit 25", as that's sure to be a vacuum leakage
I mean, its not like he needs to get system more sealed. If anything its better to pull just enough vacuum to fill the system so that you don't break anything.
Correct. As soon as the gauge stops dropping, fill it up. I was just explaining as to why Jay couldn't get to 30" of vacuum. 30" would probably cause damage to some of the components, mainly o-rings not designed for a vacuum.@@BunzJackson
Could run the black hose into the fill bottle lid, then have a straw run thru the lid separate to the bottom of the bottle. When you hold the bottle upsidedown above the fill point will clear the air pocket. Straw will stop the bottle from going under vacuum. Like shot gunning a beer
I cant say with 100% certainty that Jay was the first to vacuum fill a system, but he was the first publicly documented one at least, and first ive seen or heard, so thats pretty cool
Great video! Beat you to it Jay, I did this 3 weeks ago to fill, and drain my current system, and like you I love working/building my Subaru. Mityvac MV8500 Silverline Elite Automotive Test Kit Provides both Vacuum and Pressure I used this; It does not take as much effort as you think, and also you can reverse the flow vac or pressure, so I made a custom container to hold the liquid, and put it under vac to allow the air to bubble out, and then simply flip the valve to now allow all the coolant to fill the space with out the air issue you had with the fill tube
Maybe you want to pull the vacuum at the highest point, i.e. the Phil-port, so you could prime the original drain port with fluid while under low vacuum, then increase the vacuum and phil the system all the way. You might want to include a small reservoir in front of the vacuum pump, so that it cannot suck liquid. But that is just my two cents. 😎
Those are the kind of pumps used in fabs and semiconductor labs to pick up packaged parts with little suction cups to move them around from trays to systems, etc.
We used the following pump for our RF systems. JB Industries DV-200N Platinum 7 CFM Vacuum Pump. It can take an hour or two to pull the vacuums on the systems that were built and on some occasions all night.
I do this for draining the system, although far more rudimentary. I use a EK fill syringe on a piece of tubing at the drain port, and build pressure with that. At some point, I'll crack the fill port once enough water has covered drain port and repeat as necessary. I have an O11 mini with one bottom and one side rad with a distro plate so it's very difficult to drain with gravity.
Use a T fitting right before the res, connected to your fill line and a hand pump with a shutoff at the fitting. Then you can prime the fill line and close off the hand pump section before filling.
Jay if you run a seperate reservoir with a dip tube for the drain into the bottom and hook the vac pump into the lid leaving the top open to air you could drain loops with that. Thats how I draw old brake fluid out of a system and do oil changes on jet skis. You can also run a air oil or air water seperator as a redundancy. it takes less of the vacuum to drain so it should be fairly simple.
I can't believe I missed this video. Most water loop components can handle up to 1 Bar of pressure (14.5 PSI). Inversely, the components can handle up to -1 Bar of vacuum (-14.5 PSI). Wouldn't it be better to not allow the vacuum to go past -14 PSI? Perhaps that was the reason you could hear the radiator pipes and fins collapsing, like the bulkheads in a submarine. Next time try to only reach a vacuum of -14 PSI and see how well that works for you. I am currently working on a similar project, and that is how I found this video. Great job as always, guys!
or plug in the pump on the top up hole in the reservoir and pump air while having the bottom tube in the coolant jug, won't put the system under negative pressure and risk to implode and will simply pump the coolant in the circuit.
I too have a vacuum pump. A vacuum fluid pump is just a vacuum pump hooked up to a rigid container with the fluid drain tube hooked up to the container in a different location.
You may want to look into the following: A three way valve on the fill side of your rig. It will allow you to switch from the vacuum pump to the fill bottle and have the fill hose as full as possible to limit the amount of air. If worried about pulling water into the vacuum side of the system, install a fluid separator to keep the liquid from the vacuum pump.
You could leak test AND then vacuum fill with the same set-up. So I am DIY building myself a setup for this. I realised that the cheap vacuum pump I was looking at had two port that a tube could be atrached, one air-in and the other is air-out. Vacuum gauge and pressure gauge are the same thing, just with a different start point for the needle. So now if I put a valve on either side of a t-junction that has a dual function (pressure and vacuum) gauge, then by swapping between air-in and air-out on the pump. The reason for valves on boths sides is so when I go to fill the system I don't need to worry about any liquid getting into the gauge (probably not an issue, but a simple step for peace of mind)
I used a similar technique working for Moog to fill sealed electrical cables for undersea use. If you add the coolant slowly thru a needle valve you will put less stress on the mechanical components.
It seems jayz never heard of Aquacomputers Leakshield, what exactly does the same but is even much more advanced as it helps you protect against leaks and could even remove the water again.
The two valve system you have is a great idea. I have a vacuum pump. I have 2-24mm vacuum gauges with thumb screw needle valves, that way I can control the amount of vacuum can be pulled. It works great and works kind of like a little fail safe. I also use a weird method that everyone scratches their head at when doing clutches and break systems; I will prime the system with fluid and then I use a sink drain plug with a small hole drilled in it with vacuum line going inside of it. I will slap it ontop of the master cylinder reservoir and pull vacuum, this pulls all of the air out of the top. If anyone who's a GM Tech will know this is how GM did most of their hydraulic systems for decades! Works great for removing air out of a system, going through the top of the reservoir..
I filled my first water cooled system this way with a hand pump break bleeding kit back in 2007. And with the break bleeding kit you could use it to finish getting all of the air out using the catch reservoir to catch water before it gets to the pump. A large enough one could catch all of the fluid in the system and be used to drain the system as well.
Use a 3 way ball valve on your fill hose to syphon water into the fill hose prior to opening the fill valve and its perfect. I have a brake bleeder kit and i will be doing this for my next build. Great video and thank you for the tip.
I use the same kind of pump for all sorts of stuff it wasn't designed for and have some tips. 1) You can use some hose or pipe over the exhaust, it acts both as a muffler and an oil catch for the vapor. 2) You want some kind of water catch and/or a dryer for the vacuum side, preferable both. You can diy either one with some pressure rated pvc, the dryer will need a desiccant though. 2a) If you don't opt for removing the water before it hits the pump you're gonna wanna change out the oil a lot. The little port window doesn't show the bottom of the oil reservoir and you can get a good amount of water sitting on the bottom before you can see it. The water in the bottom totally wrecks the pump, it rusts stuff up and will turns into this cheesy slime that makes changing out the oil a huge pain.
can also use it to leak test. something i use in work quite regular. vacuum the cooling system down and watch the gauge to see if it moves up over 10 mins. then pressure test the system and watch the gauge
Like a vaccum brake bleeder. My MightyVac hand bleeder has a bottle that will pull all the fluid through without sucking fluid into the pump. Nice seeing it done on a computer. Also I believe the vapor you see is water boiling out of the system at low pressure.
We used to fill closed water cooling loops this way like 25 years ago back before resevoirs were common, probably can still find old archived posts on HardOCP explaining the process if you look long enough.
If you make a T with 2 valves where you Connect to the reservoar you put one end in the fluid and make sure the tube is full and the valve is closed and the other is open and connected to the pump you just switch the pump valve of and the fluid on then you would not have air pulled in. This is how we do it on Teslas :)
Jay,you can use the pump to pressurise a canister with air,and then use that to purge the fluid out of the system. Given that the system has an entry and exit points.
I have a further addition you can try, it's something I used to do for draining hydraulics but it should work (maybe), first you need a container 1 and a half times larger then the volume of the system your trying to drain, the container needs to have 2 valves on it, one going to the system to be drained and one that goes to the vacuum pump, close the line to the system and open the line to the vacuum pump, once you have got the required vacuum, close the line to the pump and open the line to the system, it works to get the vast majority of the liquid out of the system, and if you have a filter on the vacuum line you can do it a few times without disconnecting anything.
also a brake bleeder would work on pc systems with soft tubing that easy to crush with your fingers. the catch can then would also catch the overflow prevent leak caused by over fill. that u could just plug into the upper fill port but u have to make a adapter for it.
I've been meaning to get a vacuum pump to create a vacuum pot chamber for removing air from epoxy projects. Then today, I found out you can pickle foods under vacuuming instantly, rather than waiting weeks/months/years. And now I see this. It's really time.
This is a great idea. FYI, this is how your vehicle's radiator, brake, and AC systems are filled at the factory. With the radiator, the fill head is clamped and sealed onto the radiator cap. The machine then pulls a vacuum on the system and checks if the system will hold the vacuum to check for leaks. If there are no leaks in the system, the radiator and the rest of the system are filled with fluid while the system is still under vacuum. The vacuum causes the system to fill faster than it would under normal circumstances, which reduces cycle time on the production line. The entire process takes about 40 seconds with about 35 seconds of that time being taken up by the vacuum check. It's stuff like this that allows factories to produce 60 to 70 vehicles an hour.
A small enough pump would could be driven from the PC itself so you don't need an external power supply. If you attach a pressure gauge to the PC tubing then if it maintains a good constant vacuum for minutes or hours then you don't have any loop leaks either 😀 No need for a pressuring pump to test your loop. It's a shame that the pump in the loop can't do both pumping air and fluid so that no additional equipment would be required.
Add a liquid trap to your vacuum pump, just a glass jar with 2 hose bibs in the lid. It will save your pump if you happen to have liquid still in the system. there are plenty of DIY an professional designs online. Your idea is awesome.
Heyo, I'm updating some parts later today and I'll also replace my coolant. Seeing you use the blower to get the rest of the fluid out already made me go "Hah! Great, thanks!" but then seeing how the loop just filled itself there made me laugh out loud this early in the morning. That was such an amazing thing to see because I feel like everyone struggles handling those huge heavy computer cases to get the air out. Thanks for showing us this, you guys. I wish I had seen this video sooner. lol
Bro, I've been filling and emptying my loops with vacuum since 2016. You don't need a sophisticated vacuum drain system, just attach your hose to an airtight container of your choice from the top, and pull another hose from next to it to the pump. Crack the highest point of the system open (fill port etc) and pump. Once you start pulling vacuum into the container (milk jug etc.) your fluids will drain there, and as long as the hose from pump inside the container is above the fluid level you will only draw air into the pump. Its best to have a couple of inches between the hose to prevent spillage to vacuum pump hose. This method in reverse is also a quick way to fill the system, just reverse the ports to pull vacuum from top highest point using the catch can method (above) and put a hose with valve to the bottom and the other end into water jug.
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HVAC technician here. What you created was the harshest water slug machine I've ever seen. When we pull a perfect vacuum (down to 500 microns maximum) we have to let in the liquid refrigerant VERY slowly or else it will destroy the compressor, especially newer ones that have been re-regulated by the EPA to be more efficient in the states.
Waterslugging has the potential to ruin joints, internal mechanisms, and likely your radiator fins. However, you can totally prevent this by pulling a vacuum (with the fittings, because with proper fittings, you should get near a perfect vacuum if your joints don't leak), closing the valve on the tube, removing the other end off of the vacuum, filling that tube with water, plugging the end with your thumb while you push that end of the tube into a bucket of water so that it is completely filled with water, and then CRACK the valve open SLIGHTLY to slowly bleed the water in, letting it flow without much speed so that it gently flushes across your joints and fins.
Edit: actually, it may not be *that* bad considering your loading it into the accumulator instead of directly into delicate points of your water loop, but it's still a good idea to slowly bleed the water into your system.
Why Not Just Put A valve At The End Of The hose? Also These radiators Are Made For Positive Pressure And Are SUPER CHEAP IN CONSTRUCTION! i Would Fear That The Sound He Was Hearing Was The Smaller Tubes In The radiator Collapsing Shut! Effectively Ruining The Cooling Capacity Of The radiator!
@@kevinlsims7330 A valve at the end of the hose will still have a few grams of air as you connect the hose to the service valve. ofc my background is an HVAC technician, and so my idea of a perfect job is ensuring there are no contaminants whatsoever.
You ned a 3 way Y splitter with 2 valves one for vacuum and one for fill. The one for the fill will go back to a small gallon bucket with a hole and another fitting with a valve. just before the valve at the Y fitting there will be another fitting with a bleeding port on it so you can pre fill the length of feed hose. Close all valves on the feed side. Open all the valves on the vacuum side and pull a vacuum. Close the vacuum side. Open top valve at the bucket and them open the valve at the Y. Yes some air will get in there, but dam it will work near perfectly. I just got all my fittings in to finish my loop I just may try it. I just concerned I may damage something pulling to m uch of a vacuum. Sory was just thinking out loud when I read your reply. I was a dealership tech for over 20yrs. Everytime I filled a cooling system I pondered this idea and was always surprised none of the big companies had a kit to do this.
Why not do like a wet-vac and pull liquid continuously? - just need two jugs. waterjug-system-vacumjug-pump
@@theluggage7131 That was my first idea to suggest, however there may be air pockets in the system doing it that way and the water will flow right past those air pockets.
Yeah, like several people have been saying, a secondary feature of the Aqua Computer Leakshield is to fill the computer by pulling a vacuum. I picked it up for the leak protection but found this secondary feature to be very useful as well.
yuuuuup i got 2 of them for my mora3 setup ^^
Jay as a physicist I have to warn you about what Ive been seeing. You seem to be going down the "mad scientist" route. Have fun. Let the party begin.
youtubers of the "crackhead engineering" type. Getr styropyro for a collab jayz!
This is the beginning of RUclips fame! ♥
It's the best way for Jay, well, for anyone.
@@0Blueaura screw it fly I did a thing over too lol
@@PinkTuskedMammothnah idat would make a gpu gun, tad too expensive
If possible, add a catch pot between the computer and the pump. You want a place for liquid to stop before it runs through the pump. An old reservoir would be good enough.
You can also pull the vacuum from the fill port while filling from the drain port. You won't need to pull "max vacuum" to get a good fill ratio.
I built a liquid reservoir for doing carbon fiber vacuuming. It's literally just a length of pvc, two caps, and a few holes/fittings. Then you could pull liquid while you pull the vacuum.
I wonder if you could get a fitting like what they use to siphon wine where it doesn't open until you touch the bottom of the liquid container. Then you could pull a vacuum in your fill tube and hold the vacuum until it's in the liquid.
I dont think hes pulling water thru the pump just creating a vacuum in the pc tank then letting the watter get sucked back in by the created vacuum
I dont think hes pulling water thru the pump just creating a vacuum in the pc tank then letting the watter get sucked back in by the created vacuum
@@richiebricker that's not what they're saying is happening, aside from any residual water that didn't get blown out during the draining step. A large enough reservoir between the drain valve and the vacuum pump would allow him to drain the system into the reservoir by using the vacuum to pull the liquid (by pulling a vacuum on the reservoir, essentially), and then he could refill the system by reversing the order, placing the cooling system between the pump and the reservoir of new coolant, in one step instead of two
Aquacomputer actually has a vacuumpump for a PC waterloop, its called Leakshield. It also prevents small leaks over time by keeping a small vaccum in your PC.
Yup. Filling loops with it is basically all I use it for, too. Such a useful feature.
Watch it Jay is going to be triggered!
I think i remember Linus making a video on that or something like it.
Simpsons did it
A lot of industrial oil lubrication systems use this method to prevent leaks..
Hey Jay,
I've been filling my PC with a fluid vacuum hand pump for ages. I used one that is meant to be used to bleed automotive brakes.
I don't pull vacuum on the whole system though, I use the vacuum to pull fluid through the loop at the highest point to ensure a complete fill. This way also tends to pull all the air pockets out as well.
So there was this product that Linus tested something like 3 or 4 years ago now that was called "leak shield" and basically what it did was it drew a negative pressure on the water loop which helped to fill it this way too. It uses a piezo pump which is crazy in my opinion but that's largely what I want next time I build a PC, whenever that is.
It's being sold since a while now, about 2 years IIRC.
'Aqua Computer Leakshield' (german company). It's main use is drawing negativ pressure while the loop runs which prevents fluid from spilling if there are small punctures for some reason. Hence the name leakshield. Filling the loop by pulling a vacuum is more of an additional use of the system.
Sadly, outside of Germany (and somewhat EU) Aqua Computer, Watercool and TechN are barely known as it seems. Those 3 are german brands with awesome custom loop stuff.
Im currently building a system with a leakshield, that video is what got me into watercooling, or at least gave me the confidence to try it out for the first time.
I have a Leakshield in my system.
My first watercooled system.
It's still absolutely insane how effing sensitive that thing is, you literally lose a drop and it detects it.
Got one. LOVE the damn thing. saved my 7900xtx computer shut down while gaming with all my leds flashing red.
Checked and one of the L connector above my videocard was leaking :P
Hay Jay, you can improve it: if the vacuum pump was hooked in a place of the topoff screw plug instead, with additional overfill bottle in that line (hose from the topoff hole goes to the bottom of the bottle, vacuum pump sucks the air from the entire system through the lid of overfill bottle), and the drain pipe was dipped in the new fluid, filled already, sucking in air from the drain pipe like at 5:47 would't happen. Before vacuuming the loop, a bit of fluid could be sucked in up the drain pipe through the drain valve, than after closing it off, we create the vacuum in the loop through the topoff hole. When vacuum is achived, the drain valve will be opened until the fuid will reach the overfill bottle. An overfill valve, placed instead of the topoff screw plug, would stop the overflow, than drain valve would close off the fully filled cooling loop. For the finish, you just unscrew the hoses from valves, and the overfilled fluid goes from the bottle back into the storage container.
the only thing that scares me about this way , is cheap rads or other parts that collapse under the vacuum
A pressure test is fairly easy. Pressurize it to the approximate amount you will use later. If you can, let it sit to see if it will leak over time. Once you know it can handle it, you are good to go.
That was my first thought.
Yes. You should never vacuum your system. Using a vacuum pump to suck in fluid is other thing.
I wouldn’t do this - negative pressure (ie vacuum) and positive pressure cause completely different stresses.
Not a problem at all. The cooling pump itself operates on vacuum, it sucks (and pushes) the depending on what side of the vanes. It will only be the negative pressure needed to draw up the fluid. It's not a pressure system like a car radiator they changed pressure when temperatures rise. It's more like a brake bleeder.
Jay got negative readings because he plugged the inlet, but if you are sucking liquid, it will be like sucking a straw. Benefits of this method vs pressure is it works better at filling the air voids by sucking the air out. Air can compress, so it tends to leave pockets in the high spots, just like when filling a car cooling system.
Interesting for sure, and one I may try if I ever get a user serviceable radiator.
I did try doing this a year ago because I was doing a build in an ncase m1 with a t-line instead of a res. But since I am not a car person I must of messed something up. (I ended up just filling it up normally)
You are the first to do it successfully though
the vacuum pump should be at the top of the system, and the fill tube be at the lowest. also, you need to run the vacuum pump through a jar, to protect the vacuum pump from sucking fluids. You could use that same jar, to pull clean fluid through the system to flush out the old gunk. < Automotive Radiator servicing>
there is some mist around the pump in the video , @8:45 maybe it is blowing/spraying water out the outlet nipple... not so great for air vac pump for sure, i have same pump and it does not put oil vapors out like stated, makes me think it is water mist...
@@TomislavReskovic This is oil/water vapour that you are seeing coming out of the vacuum pump. This is normal and part of the process of vacuuming as it the water or moisture being pulled out of the loop is being boiled off in the vacuuming process.
🤣 that type of vacuum pump definitely doesn't need "protection from fluids" it's designed to pump either flashed refrigerants or liquid refrigerant (depending on what refrigerant is being used)
Also that "mist" as Jay mentioned in the video correctly isn't the liquid. If anyone was paying attention to the entire process he vacuumed prior to adding the new liquid. ALL of those types of vacuum pumps expell a mist of heated oil out the vent port.
You can just hook that pump up to a bottle for draining, just make sure it sits at the top of your recovery container and that is big enough
To evac a system all you need is a container in between the vac source and the cooling system. The vacuum pulls the vac at the top of the container (so that fluid does not get pulled in) and a hose extends to the bottom of the container where the fluid is accumulated. It's just like a one-man vacuum side brake bleed, like a Mityvac which I use.
If your rigid tube system has a leak in a joint during initial testing, you could use the vacuum to pull in sealant. I've seen woodworkers pull glue into a fine crack with just a shop-vac on the opposite side. Brilliant video!
Very cool, would love to see you do it again on a hard line system or whatever you can with max visibility of the fluid filling the whole thing.
Alternatively, just connect the drain (with a ball valve) to a hose going to water, and connect the vacuum source to the fill port. Then turn on the pump and allow it to pull in the fluid until it's full.
This would allow you to not have to deal with putting the system under an intense vacuum
Was going to say this too. This also guarantees no air in the system
For what it's worth, Aquacomputer already developed a vacuum system for PCs. Their LeakShield system uses a tiny vacuum pump to both prevent leaks and can also suction fluid into the reservoir. Its just not as fast or as cool as using an automotive vacuum pump. Alphacool also has an external unit call the ES Orbiter that does similar but requires using QDCs; you fill it with fluid, and it pumps it into your system while pulling out the air, and then you quick-disconnect the Orbiter and connect the two QDCs within the PC to themselves and done; air-free loop.
I'd like to know more about what is causing the noise coming from the radiators while under vacuum. My concern is the fins detaching from the fluid channels and losing cooling efficiency because of less surface contact.
I was thinking the same as Jay mentioned this noise.
Thin metal flexing
My concern is they collapse under vacuum then don't reinflate (or lack of a better way to describe it) when reg pressure is reapplied, so they don't have the same surface area/volume to radiate heat in future
Fins are on the air side of radiators, not in the liquid side.
@@PrepareToDie0 also some of the pipes might be sintered so causing those to flex too much might break off small pieces of metal that will float around.
I have a tool for vehicle coolant systems that does the same thing using Venturi effect instead of vacuum pump it's a bit safer for the rads, just need to start the filling process slowly so you don't damage the delicate microfins of the water blocks by having them get suddenly get hit by a rushing wall of water
As long as the vacuum isn't too strong it works. Too much vacuum and it ends up sucking air through fittings defeating the purpose. I have that exact same Amazon vacuum but I use it to vacuum out auto AC systems to recharge them for far cheaper than a shop charges.
This is how I fill mine using leakshield, essentially. The leakshield prevents leaks by creating a vacuum, it has a fill mode that uses a vacuum to pull fluid into the system.
EDIT: JAY, AQUACOMPUTER BUILT IT INTO LEAKSHIELD. THEY DID IT FIRST.
🥰
$130 vs $60 tho.
@lyianx Active leak protection and warning tho.
@@lyianx You get what you pay for.
@@Plutonium239MXR i bought one lol
I was expecting this method to be fast, but DAMN that is SO fast!
But I think pulling a bit less intense vacuum might be better for the parts in the loop in the long run :D
Loved the memes in this vid gold editing Phil!
You could set up a station for both draining and filling with differnt pumps.
Use the same pump but with a set of valves to selectively open to a vacuum reservoir to empty, then to a liquid reservoir to re-fill!
I just bought this same case for a new build, I also just installed a huge mini split on my shop. I was literally thinking about doing this with this build. I open up youtube, and here you are in my subs, posted today! CRAZY!!!
Jay, test some radiators. The thinner walled heat exchange tubes might collapse under vacuum. If not, very cool solution.
Then the solution is to only pull a slight vacuum. Like -.25 atmospheres.
@@avroarchitect1793 Yeah, you don't need barely any vacuum if you connect the pump to the fill port (highest in the system) and the fill tube to the drain (lowest in the system). Then you only need enough to lift the water from the container to the top of the res, 1-2 inHg is enough (1inHg = 345 mm H2O).
Add a catch container between the system and the pump (you could use a spare res using two ports at the top or use a jar and some barbs) to protect the pump and you have a nice system.
@@MikrySoft I have used a large mason jar with a couple of npt-hose barb connections to make a water separator, using a coupling cut in half as nuts for the pipe thread to attach them to the thin jar lid. Works quite well, we use these kind of pumps all the time to pull vacuum on double wall, vacuum monitored fuel tanks. They always have water in them if the seal leaks, or fuel if the tank has failed internally. Neither of which need to go through the vac. pump.
I make silicone molds to make resin parts for random projects and I use a vacuum pump to degas (remove air and other gases) from the liquid silicone and resin. I also am planning a new computer build and I want to try water cooling...this just made that a bunch easier!! Thank Jay
This sort-of already exist but not as loop filling tool but as a leak detector and it's called Leakshield from Aquacomputer.
Leakshield does filling as well. The pump operates both ways
Jay!! Put vacuum pump at top of your system (fill port) and suck in fluid through the bottom (drain)! Love that you are finally doing this!
What you should do is put a fitting on the bottom of a bucket of some kind so you can full the bucket with coolant and plug the hose going to the bucket fitting. If the bucket is on a stand above the fitting in the system all the air in the hose will rise into the bucket. This would also be a good setup if you need to fill a bunch of systems really quickly. After the system is full you can just move the hose to the top of the system to top off.
Oh so essentially custom rigging a fill station reservoir, that's pretty dang smart.
And if he has a closeable valve on the bottom of the hose, then the hose will also stay full of liquid if any is left and not have air in it either that could be pushed into the system.
haha ! I just suggested the same thing !
topping off the res seems a lot easier.
a great way to check for leaks as well, we do the same thing in the automotive industry before filling cooling systems or refrigeration systems.
There already is that cute little manual pump for testing a loop, with a gauge too. It should be child's play to reverse it on the cheap... and yes, Aquacomputer's leakshield.
Hi Jay.
I work in the HVAC industry. i use vac pumps all the time. Ideally you'd need a manifold that you can vacuum down and charge (fill). Before you charge, you need to purge so you minimise air getting back into your system. In the automotive industry, you can fill your brakes this way too, much faster than the pump and bleed method. They use a bleed line into a fluid catch bottle (resevoir) which is then connected to the vacuum pump. That way to you empty your brake system of fluid and also fill it.
E.g. Brake fluid bottle feeding brake fluid resevoir, bleed line to catch resevoir connected to vac pump.
i siimilar inline system can work for PC watercooling.
Alternatively, HVAC style would be:
-Drain port connected to gauge manifold (so you can open and shut the line), vac/charge line from gauge manifold to catch resevoir then connected to vacuum pump.
-When system is empty and holding a vacuum, shut off gauge manifold valve, disconnect vacuum pump and catch resevoir.
-connect new fluid bottle. Seal it if possible (could be a bottle cap that you could modify with a hose that goes through it).
-raise and invert new fluid bottle so it is above the lowest point of the gauge manifold and purge the line of air by cracking open the fill line/hose on the manifold end. this should leak out some fluid pushing air out.
-place fluid bottle back on the table.
-you should be ready to open the gauge manifold vavle to the system and charge (fill) without air bubbles.
i hope that works.
That is pretty much a simple way that we use in the HVAC industry.
Recover, Vacuum, Purge, Recharge.
Though we vacuum down to around 500 microns and check to see if it holds that for at least 15 minutes. Air in a HVAC system is really bad. Less air in a water cooled system can't hurt either, just like car radiator systems, less air, less problems with air locking, steam bubbles, pump airration etc.
You can use a T with two valves at the end, so you can put one tube to the vacuum pump and the other one to the bottle so that you don't have to take the tube out to the air. Also, a thinner tube would minimize the dead volume of air, but it might fill slightly slower. Going lower on pressure won't help much.
Best would be to hook the pump to fill port and the hose to drain port
The beautiful thing about this is that by using a vacuum, you've already pre-tested the system for leaks before even filling it, without having to do a separate pressure test (although it probably wouldn't hurt to do that when building it anyway. A second test also doesn't hurt, sometimes things might ... move between build and first fill, esp. if you have multiple hands on it.) Very efficient
Hey Jay, nice idea, but a litten bit late. Check Aquacomputers Leakshield. It uses a slight vacuum (negativ 300-400mbar) You can use this to Check for leaks in a newly build System, to Fill the system throgh a Port and to degas the system. (As well as a leak protection)
This is a pretty cool peice of kit. Please review Jay
Leakshield is a very nice looking piece of kit, especially with the QoL features it offers!
Shame it doesn't fit on my Corsair XD5 or I'd grab one in a heartbeat for the peace of mind alone.
How does it achieve leak protection? The entire loop can't be of a lower pressure than atmospheric while running, can it?
@@bricaaron3978That is exactly what it does
@@bricaaron3978 Yes, the system runs at low pressure. Mine is currently -316.5mbar ;-)
I used to do automotive A/C repair. The vapor you saw coming out of your pump vent was mostly water vapor, from the water that was still in the system, boiling when the vacuum ( lack of pressure) drops enough. Water will boil at room temperature in a vacuum. Remember, your vacuum pump is filled with (usually) mineral oil. Water vapor will turn the oil milky over time. Make sure to change it when it does and keep it filled to the proper level. I've seen people ruin vacuum pumps this way.
To remove the fluid under vacuum, put an accumulator more than large enough to hold all the fluid in the system in line with the vacuum pump. Pull the accumulator under vacuum first and then open the valve while continuing to run the vacuum pump. I would suggest using a fairly long hose between the accumulator and the pump and keep the pump higher than the accumulator. It works pretty well.
Pulling inspiration from the auto field is brilliant! I recommend putting a vacuum trap between the drain and the vacuum pump to protect your pump from stray drops or schmoo in the system. To go EVEN FASTER, you could hook up a tube, valve, and jug to the fill port too. Apply vacuum, close one valve, open another, FWOOSH!
Fwoosh are all the entrained microbubbles of air just put into your system!
11:34 "Don't pull out the water using a vacuum pump"
So, in the world of composites (i.e. fibre glass & carbon fibre), if you're gonna do a lay-up that requires vacuum, you put a catch-can type thing before the vacuum pump for any resin that makes it's way to the vacuum pump to drip in to instead
It's basically a small sealed tub that has a lid with 2 fittings on the top, and you can pull a vacuum normally, but any liquids that get in to the tube can't enter the pump
10:51 "no one is selling a vacuum kit!"
Aquacomputer: Hiiiiii :D
I'm glad you said something cause dayum is that thing sexy...
Great vid!
Just have to note.. Used to work in HVAC, and we didn't use vacuum to fill refrigerant - but to ensure there was no moisture in the system. Certain compressor oils would become acidic and you could ruin the compressor pistons if there was moisture in there. The capacity of the moisture filter of the system is just meant to handle the last residues after vacuum boils any water away inside the system.
This is also what might break internal components if you have a leak on the return side, as moisture would be pulled in and react with the compressor oils and make acid.
I've been wondering why no one has done this yet, coming from a mechanic standpoint. This is how I've been doing car radiators for years so you can make sure there is no air behind the heater core. Great video Jay
This has been around for a long time in the automotive world. Check out Air Lift Vacuum Bleeders. It uses a shop air compressor to blow air through a venturi that pulls a vacuum on an empty cooling system, then you close one valve and open the other which goes into a coolant bottle and the system fills itself. No running a car gradually adding more while squeezing hoses and burping the system. It works fantastically well.
Jay saying "I'm not sure what I'm doing" means it is going to be science lmao
Yea, science™!
Any DIYer says the same thing when starting a project.
as a refrigeration engineer in the uk, you have sparked my geeky interest 😀use a set of 4 port refrigeration (HVAC) gauge set, you could have a small tire inflator on one port, vac on another, drain on another and system oulet on another 🥰
@JaysTwoCents you should take one of your radiators sitting around to see if the vacuum is actually doing any damage to the rad, otherwise this is actually a good idea
Also, they make automotive reservoirs that are made for vacuum evacuation that separate the air flow from the fluid.
This was part of my concern as well. PC components (for water cooling)* are not designed to operate under much pressure, much less a vacuum. At -29 psi, though it may not seem like much, is actually enough to implode containers you might not expect to do so. I'm sure there are plenty of videos to demonstrate this. A steel drum for instance will withstand multiple atmospheres under pressure, but will collapse under less than one.
I've always used a tiny aquarium pump. Line in from the lowest point (typically your drain), line out at the highest and that line is ran back into the bucket/fluid source so that the pump can cycle the fluid through the system however long you want it to before closing the loop up. Also works for rad flushing.
same but have been doing water changes on my reef tank.
Jay, to expand on the use of automotive tools and making this a bit more reachable, how about a "mighty Vac" hand pump like you would use for bleeding brakes? Especially if you adapt a larger reservoir to hold the old coolant, it could be a one step solution. Also you could add a tee fitting and 2 more ball valves one to your vacume, one to the new fluid this would then allow you to not have the air introduced from the new fluid line.
That's what I use. It works very very well. A big system is rarely more than 2 liters and a hand-vac is more than plenty to purge it in a minute.
Hey Jay, I am a VW tech and we use a tool that can remove the air from the fill hose to eliminate introducing air into the system when filling. It works GREAT!
Did you ever tried an Aquacomputer Leakshield? This could also be used to fill the system using a vacuum.
This is what makes RUclips stand out vs the crap that's on TikTok or Insta or whatever.
Informative content which is actually useful. And entertaining at the same time.
Thank you!
Aquacomputer’s LEAKSHIELD makes refilling easy.
Hi Jay. Being inspired by composite manufacturing, you should have two ports. One for vacuum on top of the reservoir with a liquid trap. That means you make vacuum on a container then you have a hose connected from that container to the top of the reservoir. You put a valve at the reservoir. Then you have another hose on the lower part of you reservoir, better yet on a low part of your loop. You put a valve there and connect the hose with the coolant. Then with both valves open you start sucking until the coolant passes the coolant valve. Then you close the coolant valve and continue sucking. Once you reach your maximum vacuum you slowly open the coolant valve and let it fill the loop until some coolant reaches the trap container. Then you close both valves and are done.
Look for VARTM (Vacuum Assisted Resin Transfer Moulding) and get inspired;)
Breaking the rule and commenting before fully watching, but if this works... I have a vacuum pump for recharging car AC systems that may find its way indoors on the next loop maintenance day.
If you have another port you could use as a “bleed line” you could fill your system using one of the methods we use with aircraft brakes. We hook up a pressure pot, essentially a garden sprayer with a connector on the end, and then pump fluid through the system which forces out all the air
Almost all of Jay's best videos stem from the phrase: "I wonder what would happen if....?"
Jay all you need to drain the system is an air tight bucket inline with the vacuum and two pipes similar to a thumper in a moonshine setup where the coolant can drain into without going into the pump.
Actually this is kinda what Aqua Computer's Leakshield does. You fill the loop under vacuum. But it's an expensive gimmick IMO
vac the fill port at the top while bottom drain port is under water and throttle a valve nicely and itll draw the air out and the water in one shot
The reason you can't pull the vacuum past 24" is because of the water left in the system. Water boils under a vacuum which will cause the pressure to rise. On a new build you might hit 29" but it might require running the pump for 24 hours depending on the humidity in the area.
I'm pretty sure the fact that he's just plopping the tube over the flare fitting is his main reason to only hit 25", as that's sure to be a vacuum leakage
This makes sense, you can see some vapors coming from the pump too
I mean, its not like he needs to get system more sealed. If anything its better to pull just enough vacuum to fill the system so that you don't break anything.
Correct. As soon as the gauge stops dropping, fill it up. I was just explaining as to why Jay couldn't get to 30" of vacuum.
30" would probably cause damage to some of the components, mainly o-rings not designed for a vacuum.@@BunzJackson
Tell me your HVAC without telling me your HVAC.
Could run the black hose into the fill bottle lid, then have a straw run thru the lid separate to the bottom of the bottle. When you hold the bottle upsidedown above the fill point will clear the air pocket. Straw will stop the bottle from going under vacuum. Like shot gunning a beer
I cant say with 100% certainty that Jay was the first to vacuum fill a system, but he was the first publicly documented one at least, and first ive seen or heard, so thats pretty cool
Great video!
Beat you to it Jay, I did this 3 weeks ago to fill, and drain my current system, and like you I love working/building my Subaru.
Mityvac MV8500 Silverline Elite Automotive Test Kit Provides both Vacuum and Pressure
I used this; It does not take as much effort as you think, and also you can reverse the flow vac or pressure, so I made a custom container to hold the liquid, and put it under vac to allow the air to bubble out, and then simply flip the valve to now allow all the coolant to fill the space with out the air issue you had with the fill tube
Maybe you want to pull the vacuum at the highest point, i.e. the Phil-port, so you could prime the original drain port with fluid while under low vacuum, then increase the vacuum and phil the system all the way. You might want to include a small reservoir in front of the vacuum pump, so that it cannot suck liquid. But that is just my two cents. 😎
Those are the kind of pumps used in fabs and semiconductor labs to pick up packaged parts with little suction cups to move them around from trays to systems, etc.
jay never heard about leakshield from aquacomputer
We used the following pump for our RF systems. JB Industries DV-200N Platinum 7 CFM Vacuum Pump. It can take an hour or two to pull the vacuums on the systems that were built and on some occasions all night.
Hey Corsair and EK, I think you just found a new feature for your water cooling solutions.
Only Aquacomputer has it first
linke?@@tomkeating65
I do this for draining the system, although far more rudimentary. I use a EK fill syringe on a piece of tubing at the drain port, and build pressure with that. At some point, I'll crack the fill port once enough water has covered drain port and repeat as necessary. I have an O11 mini with one bottom and one side rad with a distro plate so it's very difficult to drain with gravity.
10:50 - You might wanna retract that statement... Google Aqua Computer LEAKSHIELD
Use a T fitting right before the res, connected to your fill line and a hand pump with a shutoff at the fitting. Then you can prime the fill line and close off the hand pump section before filling.
Jay if you run a seperate reservoir with a dip tube for the drain into the bottom and hook the vac pump into the lid leaving the top open to air you could drain loops with that. Thats how I draw old brake fluid out of a system and do oil changes on jet skis. You can also run a air oil or air water seperator as a redundancy. it takes less of the vacuum to drain so it should be fairly simple.
Thank you! I have been waiting for Someone in the tech tuber space to tey this! Live it.
I can't believe I missed this video. Most water loop components can handle up to 1 Bar of pressure (14.5 PSI). Inversely, the components can handle up to -1 Bar of vacuum (-14.5 PSI). Wouldn't it be better to not allow the vacuum to go past -14 PSI? Perhaps that was the reason you could hear the radiator pipes and fins collapsing, like the bulkheads in a submarine. Next time try to only reach a vacuum of -14 PSI and see how well that works for you. I am currently working on a similar project, and that is how I found this video. Great job as always, guys!
or plug in the pump on the top up hole in the reservoir and pump air while having the bottom tube in the coolant jug, won't put the system under negative pressure and risk to implode and will simply pump the coolant in the circuit.
I too have a vacuum pump. A vacuum fluid pump is just a vacuum pump hooked up to a rigid container with the fluid drain tube hooked up to the container in a different location.
You may want to look into the following:
A three way valve on the fill side of your rig. It will allow you to switch from the vacuum pump to the fill bottle and have the fill hose as full as possible to limit the amount of air.
If worried about pulling water into the vacuum side of the system, install a fluid separator to keep the liquid from the vacuum pump.
You could leak test AND then vacuum fill with the same set-up.
So I am DIY building myself a setup for this.
I realised that the cheap vacuum pump I was looking at had two port that a tube could be atrached, one air-in and the other is air-out.
Vacuum gauge and pressure gauge are the same thing, just with a different start point for the needle.
So now if I put a valve on either side of a t-junction that has a dual function (pressure and vacuum) gauge, then by swapping between air-in and air-out on the pump.
The reason for valves on boths sides is so when I go to fill the system I don't need to worry about any liquid getting into the gauge (probably not an issue, but a simple step for peace of mind)
I used a similar technique working for Moog to fill sealed electrical cables for undersea use. If you add the coolant slowly thru a needle valve you will put less stress on the mechanical components.
I wanted to do this years ago. Never did it. Beat me to it Jay. You win this round.
It seems jayz never heard of Aquacomputers Leakshield, what exactly does the same but is even much more advanced as it helps you protect against leaks and could even remove the water again.
The two valve system you have is a great idea. I have a vacuum pump. I have 2-24mm vacuum gauges with thumb screw needle valves, that way I can control the amount of vacuum can be pulled. It works great and works kind of like a little fail safe.
I also use a weird method that everyone scratches their head at when doing clutches and break systems; I will prime the system with fluid and then I use a sink drain plug with a small hole drilled in it with vacuum line going inside of it. I will slap it ontop of the master cylinder reservoir and pull vacuum, this pulls all of the air out of the top. If anyone who's a GM Tech will know this is how GM did most of their hydraulic systems for decades! Works great for removing air out of a system, going through the top of the reservoir..
I filled my first water cooled system this way with a hand pump break bleeding kit back in 2007. And with the break bleeding kit you could use it to finish getting all of the air out using the catch reservoir to catch water before it gets to the pump. A large enough one could catch all of the fluid in the system and be used to drain the system as well.
Use a 3 way ball valve on your fill hose to syphon water into the fill hose prior to opening the fill valve and its perfect. I have a brake bleeder kit and i will be doing this for my next build. Great video and thank you for the tip.
I use the same kind of pump for all sorts of stuff it wasn't designed for and have some tips.
1) You can use some hose or pipe over the exhaust, it acts both as a muffler and an oil catch for the vapor.
2) You want some kind of water catch and/or a dryer for the vacuum side, preferable both. You can diy either one with some pressure rated pvc, the dryer will need a desiccant though.
2a) If you don't opt for removing the water before it hits the pump you're gonna wanna change out the oil a lot. The little port window doesn't show the bottom of the oil reservoir and you can get a good amount of water sitting on the bottom before you can see it. The water in the bottom totally wrecks the pump, it rusts stuff up and will turns into this cheesy slime that makes changing out the oil a huge pain.
can also use it to leak test. something i use in work quite regular. vacuum the cooling system down and watch the gauge to see if it moves up over 10 mins. then pressure test the system and watch the gauge
Dang, Jay... You just revolutionized PC enthusiast building. Well done JayzTwoCents team!
Like a vaccum brake bleeder. My MightyVac hand bleeder has a bottle that will pull all the fluid through without sucking fluid into the pump. Nice seeing it done on a computer. Also I believe the vapor you see is water boiling out of the system at low pressure.
We used to fill closed water cooling loops this way like 25 years ago back before resevoirs were common, probably can still find old archived posts on HardOCP explaining the process if you look long enough.
If you make a T with 2 valves where you Connect to the reservoar you put one end in the fluid and make sure the tube is full and the valve is closed and the other is open and connected to the pump you just switch the pump valve of and the fluid on then you would not have air pulled in.
This is how we do it on Teslas :)
Jay,you can use the pump to pressurise a canister with air,and then use that to purge the fluid out of the system.
Given that the system has an entry and exit points.
I have a further addition you can try, it's something I used to do for draining hydraulics but it should work (maybe), first you need a container 1 and a half times larger then the volume of the system your trying to drain, the container needs to have 2 valves on it, one going to the system to be drained and one that goes to the vacuum pump, close the line to the system and open the line to the vacuum pump, once you have got the required vacuum, close the line to the pump and open the line to the system, it works to get the vast majority of the liquid out of the system, and if you have a filter on the vacuum line you can do it a few times without disconnecting anything.
also a brake bleeder would work on pc systems with soft tubing that easy to crush with your fingers. the catch can then would also catch the overflow prevent leak caused by over fill. that u could just plug into the upper fill port but u have to make a adapter for it.
I've been meaning to get a vacuum pump to create a vacuum pot chamber for removing air from epoxy projects. Then today, I found out you can pickle foods under vacuuming instantly, rather than waiting weeks/months/years. And now I see this. It's really time.
This is a great idea. FYI, this is how your vehicle's radiator, brake, and AC systems are filled at the factory. With the radiator, the fill head is clamped and sealed onto the radiator cap. The machine then pulls a vacuum on the system and checks if the system will hold the vacuum to check for leaks. If there are no leaks in the system, the radiator and the rest of the system are filled with fluid while the system is still under vacuum. The vacuum causes the system to fill faster than it would under normal circumstances, which reduces cycle time on the production line. The entire process takes about 40 seconds with about 35 seconds of that time being taken up by the vacuum check. It's stuff like this that allows factories to produce 60 to 70 vehicles an hour.
A small enough pump would could be driven from the PC itself so you don't need an external power supply. If you attach a pressure gauge to the PC tubing then if it maintains a good constant vacuum for minutes or hours then you don't have any loop leaks either 😀 No need for a pressuring pump to test your loop. It's a shame that the pump in the loop can't do both pumping air and fluid so that no additional equipment would be required.
Add a liquid trap to your vacuum pump, just a glass jar with 2 hose bibs in the lid. It will save your pump if you happen to have liquid still in the system. there are plenty of DIY an professional designs online.
Your idea is awesome.
11:55 Please get a vacuum pull pump! I want to see a video on that!
Heyo, I'm updating some parts later today and I'll also replace my coolant. Seeing you use the blower to get the rest of the fluid out already made me go "Hah! Great, thanks!" but then seeing how the loop just filled itself there made me laugh out loud this early in the morning. That was such an amazing thing to see because I feel like everyone struggles handling those huge heavy computer cases to get the air out.
Thanks for showing us this, you guys. I wish I had seen this video sooner. lol
Nick: "Do it again" lol. This is awesome. I am about to try my hand at my first custom loop. I'm also doing a hardline instead of soft tubing.
Bro, I've been filling and emptying my loops with vacuum since 2016. You don't need a sophisticated vacuum drain system, just attach your hose to an airtight container of your choice from the top, and pull another hose from next to it to the pump. Crack the highest point of the system open (fill port etc) and pump. Once you start pulling vacuum into the container (milk jug etc.) your fluids will drain there, and as long as the hose from pump inside the container is above the fluid level you will only draw air into the pump. Its best to have a couple of inches between the hose to prevent spillage to vacuum pump hose. This method in reverse is also a quick way to fill the system, just reverse the ports to pull vacuum from top highest point using the catch can method (above) and put a hose with valve to the bottom and the other end into water jug.