FURTHER TIPS AND NOTES! Don't just dump oil, take it to a recycling drop off point (e.g. automotive stores)! A bike mechanic's opinion after thousands of rebuilds... "Most engine failures are from air filter mistakes, NOT oil! Most modern 4 strokes are capable of going more hours than most riders will keep them. Most failures are not oil related unless they have been run low on oil or its never been changed. Basically clean oil is good oil." Thanks Adam! Your choice of oil becomes more important for air cooled engines being regularly pushed hard! Check the temperature graphic, you can see a synthetic oil will last longer before breaking down. A big thanks to Sharon, our moped stunt rider who endured three explosions for this vid. Go girl! Alternatives to Rotella? This synthetic diesel oil is JASO rated for wet clutches, incredibly popular and great value in the USA but isn't available elsewhere. Feel like experimenting? Just get the right weight in a synthetic diesel oil and make sure it's JASO rated. RESEARCH SOURCES & FURTHER READING motorcyclistlifestyle.com/best-motorcycle-oils/ motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oil.html ruclips.net/video/6VLMfUz34R0/видео.html www.mototribology.com/ www.bobistheoilguy.com/ 540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/ www.dualies.com/uploads/7/1/4/7/71477929/oil_test_results_-_g2156.pdf
Not that long ago Recluse recommended Shell Rotella T4 or any lube with the JASO MA specs for their autoclutches .Then they came up with there own "special" oil for 18$ Us a quart , I'll stick with any 15-40 w diesel JAMO MA lube, and change it every 8-10 hours in my 08 xcw.
My oil choice for the chain usually makes people think I'm joking... I run olive oil in an automatic luber. Olive oil is compatible with all flavours of o-ring. It has very high oiliness which means it spreads out to form a thin film without beading. It's not sticky, so as the oiler adds fresh oil it flings off taking the dirt with it. It cleans off relatively easily. (still makes a mess though). 37000 km on the stock chain on my V-Strom. Adjusted once so far at 30000 km and no visible wear on either sprocket. And the oiler: fish tank air hose, two fish tank valves (one for on/off, one for metering) a dozen cable ties and a plastic bottle, total cost under 10 dollars.
One recommendation is try and use the same oil as your riding group. Comes in handy with 2 strokes. Maybe you forgot gas and have to borrow from your buddies or need some oil at a gas stop. It has always been one less worry for my group.
My father was a fitter and turner for 40-odd years. He's always said that matching the manufacturers spec and viscosity and regular oil changes is more important than anything. I like Penrite oils - Australia Australia Australia - they sell stuff to suit my bike. And it's about $40-$50 per 4 litres cheaper than the recommended brand for my bike.
As a mechanic ill always spend the extra $$ on penrite oils and decent filters, especially on my bike that im relying on to get me home, change oil sooner rather then later, its a very cheap and easy insurance IMO
Rotella mineral for about 12 years now in every thing from liter sport bikes to 450 mx and TPI’s. I’ve been riding Rekluse for the last 4 years and still no issues what so ever. I change the oil about every 30-40 hours.
I had issues with a brand new bike a couple of years back which led to alot of oil analysis. Modern 4 strokes do thin the oil viscosity very quickly, some will oxidize very quickly and ep additives play a big part in how well your bike changes gears. I found the answer the most reasonable motorcycle oil changed on a regular basis. Total 4t 10w50 high perf which is a "full syn" but actually made from a mineral base stock. I change it after every ride.
Quite a few guys say they settle on this because they get better clutch action compared to the recommended oils... I didn't really look into this but it sounded interesting. I've used ATF in the past and didn't really notice any difference.
As a michanic who has rebuild thousands of motorcycle motors. Hears the deal most modern 4 strokes are capable of going more hours than most riders will keep them. Most motor failures are not oil related unless they have been run low on oil or its never been changed. Basically clean oil is good oil.
Thanks Adam, always good to hear from experienced mechanics and I'd already asked a few for this vid. I've put your comments in the pinned first comment too. 👍
@@adambatchelder4121 forgot about that one, another big reason why motor blow up, although very easy to prevent people get lazy and over due their filters
I just make sure it meets the specs and don't mix n match unless it's a matter of running out. I'll probably do the recommended change intervals unless I go on an extended adv ride (450L) and even then it won't be far off. It's cheap to change.
@@crosstrainingenduroRotella T6 5.67 litres $87.23 (including shipping to Adelaide) listed on eBay if you were keen (vendor listed as being in Regents Park NSW so probably some side hustle going on there)
A few guys have already said that at least with cheap no-name car oils it usually isn't any different to the mid-priced stuff... any comments? I always love hearing the inside story.
@@crosstrainingenduro We do the motorcycle, car ,truck if it takes any type of fluid we make it. Bottle for over 100 different private brands. The quality control is very tight if its not perfect its not packaged. Depending on the fluid it is filtered down to 25/10 or 1 micron. The modern fluid is nothing like the oil of old days Im not afraid to run any of it.
KTM recommends motorex synthetic oil for my exc-f 350 but it is so expensive I wanted to try something else. I bought some Castrol oil of the same weight and specs for half the cost and not even 2 hours into my first ride on the fresh oil the bike seized. I don't do any hard riding at all, its all slow easygoing stuff, bike never hits the rev limiter. I looked in the oil level window on the case and the oil was black and well above the level where it should have been even though I slightly under-filled it because the oil container was slightly too small. The bike still cranked over after letting it cool to somewhere between 120-160 degrees so I limped it home and got the oil out and inspected it. I found small specs of what I can only assume were the oil additives coming out of solution. No metal flecks or anything solid in the oil at all. I put the motorex back in the bike and it has run fine since. I even checked the manufacture date on the Castrol oil thinking I had bought old oil but everything was as it should have been. I will never use Castrol again regardless of the application now because I'm too scared of what might happen to my engine or being stranded.
Something very weird going on there. I'm no mechanic but I suspect it's more likely that it was something other than the oil. Did it overheat? Usually when a bike seizes it doesn't come good again. It may have just overheated massively and once the piston cooled enough you were good to go again. The barrel will be scored in that case and you'll probably hit problems soon. Overheating will be bad for the bike no matter what oil you use. Google around and read about other cases... often the bike fully seizes within a few rides in any case. Occasionally they can run for years without problems.
@@crosstrainingenduroThanks for the reply. I did a bit of digging but I couldn't seem to come up with much other than a few other guys who bought this same oil on Amazon saying the oil was causing their Harleys to seize. As far as I could tell the bike wasn't overheating. The temp only got up to about 195 F (91 C) when the bike seized with Castrol in it. With the Motorex oil in it, the temp stabilizes around 200-212 F because the radiator fan kicks on and keeps it below 220 F. Here's the full story for my experience with my oil, it's long so get comfy! This bike is brand new so when it seized on the Castrol stuff I kind of freaked out so I took it home that day and took it apart to check on the cylinder and the piston. Everything seemed to be as it should be, no scoring, nothing out of the ordinary that I could see. At this point I didn't suspect the oil was the problem, I had suspected it was the fact that I just laid the bike over in a puddle but it wasn't deep enough to submerge the bike or even get down in the intake or exhaust since the seat wasn't even wet when I picked it back up. I still didn't take any chances when I got home because I changed the oil with more Castrol right away to see if I could find any water droplets in the oil, I didn't find any. The next weekend I went on a ride with my dad and we were riding along a dirt road at a fair pace to get to the trails. My temp was reading 180 F or so when we stopped to re-check the map to make sure we hadn't missed the trail and while we were sitting there as I was about to turn the bike off it seized again. I could hear a nice loud squeek as it did. I wasn't sure what happened so I tried to turn it over with the electric start and it wouldn't budge. We turned around and I started to coast down the hill we were on in neutral. Got to the bottom and there was another hill I had to go back up so I got off and pushed it for a bit then got winded so I tried starting it again. Started right up. I rode it about another 1/4 mile then it stopped again. I nearly went down because it seized on a corner and locked up the back tire. By this point I had figured out that if it cools a little it will run for a bit so I limp it back to the truck only starting it to get me up hills and coasting the rest of the way with the bike off. I took the bike apart again when I got home to triple check the cylinder and the piston and the rings and again everything seemed fine. No new marks or anything. Temps weren't hitting 200 F when it stopped running. I dumped out the Castrol oil then put in the Motorex stuff and started the bike and let it idol until it went above 200 F and the radiator fan kicked on. Then I let it run for another 20 minutes to make sure it wasn't going to seize again and it didn't. My best guess as to what was happening, if it wasn't the oil, is that the KTM overlords know when I don't run their recommended oil so they apply a hidden brake to my crank to punish my impudence.
Motorex is also the most expensive oil out there unfortunately and I'm not convinced they recommend it for any technical reason, they just have a nice deal with Motorex. I think KTM relies on people being too scared to really try anything else
I use Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 or 15w-40 depending on the season. The T6 is the full synth version of Rotella and it's like +$6 per gallon over the regular T4 Mineral stuff. One of my bikes is DR650 so it's air cooled and I feel that in stop and go traffic it's safer to run the Full Synth stuff in case the engine gets overly hot. I stick with the 15w-40 and in the cooler months I might splash a little 5w-40 in to get closer to a 10w-40. My other bike is a 03 Honda VFR and it gets the same treatment of 15w-40 in the spring and summer and 5w-40 in the winter. She runs hot, but could probably be served well enough with a mineral. Out of convenience I just use the same stuff. If I ever take her to the track I'll probably put motorbike specific full synth oil in just to be safe. Something you didn't mention is the transmission feel. I can understand why since it's really subjective, but it seems like synth oil smooths out crunchy shifting for longer than minerals usually do. For bikes with an aggressive oil change schedule this probably won't matter between types, but on road bikes with extended intervals its definitely noticeable towards the end of the interval with the immediate improvement after a oil change. Strike while the iron's hot, do an oil filter video!
@@crosstrainingenduro Heaven forbid you use anything but the manufacturer provided oil filter. Some people start foaming at the mouth if you use Napa Gold filters on a bike.
My 1980 Hiro 2-stroke gets ATF in the gearbox & Putoline MX5 in the pre-mix. 1200GS gets Valvoline VR1 Racing, 'cos it withstands higher temps than most so perfect for an air/oil cooled boxer that gets used off-road. The road bikes get 'stuff'. The strimmer gets Castrol R, because you can't go through life without that smell.
I've decided to switch to rotella, it's available anywhere, brought me 100s of thousands of miles on boats; I have trouble finding my moto oil brand, so time to switch ($15 a gal - more changes maybe).. mineral oil has never disappointed me, great topic👍
i run semi synthetic lucas oil in my 160cc china pitbike. never had any problems with clutch slippage or burnt oil, i usually change my oil once it starts to get brown from clutch particles from slipping the clutch on purpose and then just throw in a liter of oil and it usually last me 40-50 hours of trail riding in 40f-80f temps with an oversized oil cooler on.
Side note for Two-Stroke-Mix Oil: if you have Oil Injection (Beta, KTM TPI) use a low viscosity Mixoil (Liqui Moly Offroad Race, Motorex Crosspower, Bel Ray something). If you use an Oil thats to thick (Motul 710) the injector wont pump enough to lubricate the engine even if it fits the Jaso MD standard for injection oils.
I use the rotella t6 synth here in the states i have tons of it since my trucks use it. It gets put in every bike I own, gearbox and engine and feels pretty good imo. Doesnt get changed until it's looking noticeably dirty I dont pay any attention to hours. They reccomend their brand of oil and tell you to change it way too often so they can make more money.
I have done a few oil analyses on my XRs and ny cars. Here is what I have found: Air cooled bikes are VERY susceptible to interval length. An oil with 1500 very, very hard miles on the COBDR (where engine temps were sometimes 300F°) will have more additive, viscosity, and a higher flashpoint than oil run with 2000 moderate 50/50 road and dirt use. I can't speak to liquid cooled bikes, but my 2000 Ford Escort ZX2 can easily go 7500 miles on a change, which is 50% further than the recommended interval. Keep in mind, though that oil level is more important than grade or contamination level. Motorcycles tend to burn oil, and you should never let the level get too low. Also, your air filter being loose will net you far more wear on the engine than choosing any oil type. All that being said, I do run Amsoil exclusively. My father ran it in his Norton, and sold me on it for my bikes.
That's a very good point and while I didn't mention hard working air cooled bikes I'm hoping viewers will note in the relevant graphic that oil choice becomes more important in these cases! What sort of bike did you have the oil test done on?
@@crosstrainingenduro the results on interval were done on my 2004 XR650L. My 1994 XR250L with a wet sump has taken a great deal of extra wear from sand coming in through the air filter, which is how I drew such a conclusion.
ok probably don't do what I do but this is just my experience. I use car engine oil in my street bike for a long time, I bought the bike with around 10,000 miles, and it's now at around 60,000 so this bike has been on car oil for about as long as most bikes would have been scraped. when I first started I noticed the slippy clutch and put in slightly heavier church springs to overcome it and it's never been a problem since. also, the bike just had its first way overdue valve clearance check in my care at 58,000 and they were all still in spec. i never kept track of milage interrvals, just changed it whenever getting into neutral became difficult. IDK bout you guys but friction modifiers sound like something I want in an engine. or maybe all of this has nothing to do with the oil and is just a testament to the Suzuki bandit1200 air-cooled engines.
Interesting to hear, Nick. I came across plenty of comments from guys using car oils without issues. In some cases they had clutch slippage but it didn't seem to happen often. Like so many oil issues, I think guys get so worked up about thinking their bike will explode if the put the wrong type of oil in! Personally I'll just go motorbike-specific oils but I don't get worked up about car oils being 'wrong'....
A lot of food for thought! The Colombian branded Zhongzheng bikes recommend regular ol' Castrol. I went with that during the break-in period to keep warranty. Afterwards, I ditched warranty and started using Motul. I'm in the camp of it doesn't really matter as long as you change on time and aren't riding like a maniac. I just spend the little extra because the guys at the shop say it's better and it give me peace of mind. I used synthetic once before a big trip that pushed me right up to the service interval.
There used to be a lot of info around about using mineral oils for old style engines but the experts seem to say synthetic is fine... I think those Zongsheng bikes are usually based on very old Honda engine designs?
Before Penrite started making specific motorbike oil I used to use one of their synthetic car oils in my 530 KTM. It did have a JASO MA oil rating on it so it was approved for motorbikes but not having the picture of a motorbike on the main label saved about $10 a litre
I use shell t6 rotella oil typicley used in diesel engines here in the usa it meets all the same requirements for motorcycle oil without the friction modifiers that car oil uses at a fraction of the price of motorcycle oil
My understanding is that a lot of automotive oil development and recommendation is around power and fuel economy, hence the switch to recommending synthetics. I typically choose oils by feel, and find that a good gear oil makes for much better shifting and clutch feel. I’ve tried a lot of different stuff in different bikes and I always go back to motorex or belray.
I was curious about all the 0w-20 but they also offer better start-up protection. Which in NA at least is 80% of the wear. Hotter temps probably help and colder probably makes this worse...
My wife and i did a 4-5 thousand KM trip on our 98" DR650 from Hamburg to Sicily and back. It was summer... Hot... Up to 37C in parts of Italy. I usually had it wide open on the freeways for hours on end. All i ever did was top up the oil once about half way through the trip. Including rider weights and luggage we would of been up around 200KG. I remember on one of the particularly gruelling days thinking "I've flogged the arse out of this thing and it hasn't missed a beat". Anyway, I miss all the coffees, pizzas and pistachio croissants...
The owners manual for my dual sport Suzuki DR 650 here in the USA recommends mineral oil. For my air cooled engines I look for an oil designed for them. Cylinder head temps can get quite high. In water cooled bikes, I have used automotive synthetic without clutch issues, but as a dirt road rider I never slip the clutch. I don't know that manufacturers want their engines to last forever. They may want to sell you a new bike in 5 years. They may also like to sell a new bike to the person that would have bought your old one if it was running.
Ditto, I've always run mineral oil in my DR650s even though they are air cooled. But if I was crazy enough to do lots of slow hard dirt riding on it I might consider synthetic just because I'd probably be reaching temperatures that would break down the mineral oil faster...
I've never ventured away from the recommended types of oil (for any motor) or the refresh frequency. I'm a firm believer in keeping the air and oil clean. My particular year of CRF450R engine case separates the combustion from and transmission/clutch. I've heard of lots of riders that put very expensive, high end automotive oils with 11 herbs and spices on the combustion side. Also results in different oil change intervals for the two. I have no idea if that engine design was used by other manufactures. I personally thought it was a neat idea.
I'm adventure riding an old enduro bike. I don't ride hard but I do want longer service intervals. The manufacturer reccomends "10hrs or every race". I use premium synthetic oil and change every 1,000 miles/35 hrs. No issues in the 5,000 miles I've done on it. I'm the 13th owner so I have no idea how many miles it has done in total!
Given an oil analysis is only $30 or so, it might be worth checking Bernie. It might say you could go even longer without causing any issues... or being an old bike if they can see excessive wear particles they might recommend more frequent changes possibly.
A few guys did it with Husaberg FE570s because they were adventure riding them very long distances in remote areas. From memory I think the oil analysis showed it was safe to quadruple the recommended interval if the bike wasn't ridden aggressively... but I'm sure this would vary dramatically for different bike models, types of oil and types of riding.
Fully synthetic engine case oil (Maxima brand) and gas-oil mix (Motul 710) in my 2-stroke trials bike. I only do this because it isn't that expensive given the volumes we use and everyone at my trials club runs it.
@@crosstrainingenduro Hah, no. We all order it independently off Amazon or go to the local shop to buy it. When I talk about "volumes" I should have said "small volumes" because trials bikes don't use that many consumables!
Mineral oil has natural molecular structure so is random in its durability and viscosity at temperature. Synthetic is engineered to have consistent molecular structure with modifiers to maintain viscosity at temperature. The problems begin when engine oils lose their qualities over numerous heat cycles and age. Whatever your choice simply change your engine oil as often as manufacturers recommendations or sooner. New oil is better than old oil. 🙂👍 Husqvarna FE 501 4T currently using Putoline 10w60 Fully Synthetic.
To your point about preference. My KTM is part John Deere tractor. I use John deere transmission hydraulic fluid. Works good on my worn out 2004 250 exc clutch basket. Change every 6-9 hrs. T6 was great but would not let the bike start in gear. Too sticky on the plates.
@@crosstrainingenduro I was using ATF after rotella T6 but I found that when it got hot it thinned out too much and I lost clutch feel. My dad is a master mechanic for John Deere and their transmissions and clutches are exactly like a 2 stroke only bigger. He turned me on to the hydraulic fluid. I buy 2.5 gallons for about $18.00 U.S. It seems to be a great balance between the T6 and ATF.
My fe350 is full with one qt. My 790 uses 3 qts. My mechanic says the 350 oil is working three times harder due to the smaller volume. The manufacturer recommends 15 hours on the 350 and 9000 miles on the 790, makes sence to me.
There is a lot of comment about Rottela but for those that live where it is not sold, most Diesel engine oil are excellent dirt bike oil because of their high antiwear additive content. They cost haft the price of motorcycle oil
Been using Castro mc oil for a long time. It's cheap and auto store usually have it. Ran that in several bike (cruiser, sport toured and adv bike) no issues. On new bike I usually do the first oil change after about 30 to 50 miles as that's when most metal is coming off. Then another one at about 500 miles and then about every 3k miles. The oil still look good but my Drs 400s take only 2 quarts so it doesn't break the bank. IMO, it doesn't matter dyno or Sun, as long as you change it when recommended and a bit sooner if you push your engine a lot.
Thanks for your enjoyable videos. There's a synthetic JASO MA2 oil for $80/5 gallons, delivered, on US eBay. I've been using that and change oil very frequently, whenever the oil gets dark brown, usually after about 8-10 hrs of intermediate riding. I think if you monitor the screens and magnetic plug, you should get a decent idea of what is happening. I see very little in the reusable screens and the magnetic plug. The paper filter gets changed every other oil change. I clean the paper filter sometimes, catching the solvent, and find very little.
If I was a real geek it would be interesting to get into all of this further and get some oil analysis done. I have heard guys say the analysis sometimes shows a good oil is still doing well even when almost black... which kind of goes against commonsense. I certainly like to change it before that point!
I've had really good luck with Lucas Oil products. Their prices are lower than a lot of Bling brand motorcycles oils. The 10-50wt synthetic works great in my KTM and GasGas two-stoke transmissions and I use the Lucas 2-stroke oil and have not fouled a plug in 7 years.
Just my 2 cents on using car oil, back in the 80's had a 1100 cc drag bike and was using Castrol 20-50 wt car oil and happened to look at the sight glass after a 1/4 mi pass and it was completely filled with foamed oil which means whipped up air in it which can't be good. Switched to Kendall car motor oil at track to try and no more foam. So probably best to use oil made for bikes and not cars.🤔
I've tried various oils in a DR 350 I had and it seemed to like the suzuki 10W40 synthetic. I bought a DRZ 400 and it didn't seem to like the suzuki oil as much. I switched to Motul E-Tech100 synthetic and it's happy, but DRZ's are noisy engines so i"m going to try a thicker oil this spring.
I can tell a lot. My 350 EXC has 660h on it and I change every 20-25h. For over 100h now I use Avia Caroil. Works like normal Motorbikeoil. I also used Motul oil before for many 100h's. I noticed no difference. But be always sure to use the 10W60 in my case
Yes, the regular change is probably what willl make your bike last, more than the actual type of oil! A mechanic who has done thousands of rebuilds left this comment.... "Most modern 4 strokes are capable of going more hours than most riders will keep them. Most motor failures are not oil related unless they have been run low on oil or its never been changed. Basically clean oil is good oil."
Oil is the most important thing. Ive done also rebuilds. Everyone should open an engine and have a look inside how many tasks oil does, u would change the oil more often
The oil Yamaha recommended for my bike 30 years ago is not event in production any more. But I run full synthetic pre mix in the fuel and what ever oils on special at the motorbike shop for the gear box but most of the time I run full synthetic in the gear box too . All modern motorbike oils are good compared to the oils for 30 years ago
After seeing how a mineral oil flows in cold, compared to a synthetic, I stuck with the synthetic one. The price difference between them isn't big. It would be nice if you could go for a different temperature/viscosity one, than what the manufacturer recommends, since all my bikes take 10w40, except the one that wants 20w50, but that could probably lead to quite adverse effects.
Well... I put motorcycle Castrol in my Honda VTX and worked as intended. Then I switched to Honda motorcycle oil because that was what available as a quickie. The Honda oil was per spec. However the bike shifted rough and hit a false neutral. Switched back to Castrol and shifting was 10x better and no false neutral. Don’t always believe manufacturers
Very interesting Chris! I know a lot of guys refuse to budget from what the factory says which is fine, but after all this research I wouldn't be the least bit stressed putting car oil in my bike (if nothing else was around and I was busting to ride) as long as the clutch didn't slip... which it wouldn't with our style of riding.
I buy the cheapest 10w40 Oil I can find. It doesn’t have the friction modifier’s in it like a 5W30 So the clutch works fine. Been doing that for years. I had a RM 250 for 16 years and sold it with the original clutch. It was still in spec.
Been using one same brand and weight for all 7 engines that I have (Diesel audi, two petrol suzuki cars, cbr600f, Beta 300RR two stroke, DR350, lawn mower). All running like champs. Temperature where I live varies in range from -20C to +30C (Lithuania). Not even sure if this oil has JASO MA, maybe. I think this is equivalent to Rotella used in USA. So my oil choice for everything is Shell HELIX HX7 10W-40. 12eur for 4 liters bottle, buying in 16 liter boxes every half year or so. Made this choice after saving like 20 different unfinished bottles of different oil after upgrading car or bike. Saves a lot of time as well. Cheap, stress free, time saving, what else could I want from oil?
Doesn't seem to be JASO MA but if the clutch isn't slipping then it should be fine. Heaps of guys use synthetic diesel oil, and it often does have the JASO rating too. 😊
@@crosstrainingenduro JASO MA was introduced in 1998. No idea how bikes been running before that (haha). Some japanese manuals tells to avoid "energy conserving" oil used in hybrids, because it has super slippery additives, that harms wet clutch work, but there is no additive that would increase friction (oil is not selective, it does not exclude clutch from all other parts). Or this kind of oil would be very, very bad oil ;)
regular oil changes are the key to a happy bike. new oil regardless of the brand and type is gonna be better then even the best oil thats been in there too long. personally I use Amsoil because I have seen independents tests (not just the sales pics) that show is does a better job at lubricating and resists breakdown longer. I have even doubled the recommended change intervals at times and Amsoil still came out looking clean and with no metal flakes.
@@crosstrainingenduro yea im always doubtful of sponsored independent tests. This was from a channel on youtube called "project farm" he does thorough in depth tests of all kinds of products.
I’ve recently switched to 300v & 800v from Motorex CP 2T & 4T... purely on the basis that we can group bulk buy it for 40% less than the local KTM agent wants for the Motorex stuff (robbing barstewards IMHO). Been using 300v on my CBR600 track bike and its very good, comes out looking as lurid green like alien blood as it did going in. Plus at the discount price its a no brainer. Back home I used Fuchs Silkolene Comp 2 and usually the leftover Comp 4 from my CBR600 in the gearbox of my KTM smoker. All in though, any decent JASO motorbike spec oil of the right viscosity for the manufacturers recommended range changed frequently is fine. Bad oil is like bad blood... it’ll kill you/your bike.
@@crosstrainingenduro yeah, I think just about any good diesel oil is fine. They have good anti wear properties, and no friction modifiers. Plus it's dirt cheap so you can always keep clean oil in your motor, and that's what really matters more than anything else. Maybe on a high revving crf250r mx bike, if you're racing then a high end synthetic oil is a good idea. Still wouldn't feel bad running a synthetic diesel oil though
Simple, use what your owners manual says, if you don’t have one then you can google your manual. And unless your a big racer that hits limiter every second then you don’t need to use magical oil and plus if you are that big of a rider you have an oil sponsor.
Sometimes it's unavoidable though in smaller countries e.g. a few years ago Beta recommended some magical brand of Motorex oil which wasn't available in Australia so everyone gets worked up about it until the distributor finally says Motul will be okay lol. Availability of the recommended brand can be a problem in smaller countries.
@@crosstrainingenduro true true, in my opinion in that case that is betas fault for not thoroughly going through and thinking about other countries and their capabilities. In the case that it happens my choice would be to get any well recommended oil via the store your shopping at, or any local motorcycle shop. But in reality any oil is made in mind to keep your bike running the best is can and unless it is some huge company that’s hungry for money, you should be fine 👍
one thing is ktm recommend only using motorex while husky says belray, both the engines are the same , so go figure , just my 2c ive had great luck with penrite 4st oil in my 300s for the last 5 years, it meets standards and is only $40 for 5 litres
Hi Guys synthetic oil is for sure better for your engine Although conventional oil (i.e., mineral oil) can provide adequate lubrication however it can't compete with the overall performance and protection provided by synthetic oils I’ve worked in the heavy commercial vehicle industry all my life and attended many seminars provided by some of the worlds top lubricant scientists it’s a subject all on its own I have trucks running and using the same engine oil types with changes between 30,000 and 100,000 much depends on operating conditions so many factors involved oil analysis is the way to go if you really want to understand the what’s going on inside your engine it’s a great preventative measure. If your mineral oil just ensure you change it at regular intervals ensuing you change your oil filter don’t forget your air filter Enjoy your ride...!!!
It all makes for an interesting debate, Colm! At least in the dirt bike world most bikes seem to eventually die from other factors before the engine even has a chance to wear out due to cheaper lubricants...
Very helpful, i never even questioned engine oil until now, but looks like ill be sticking to synthetic oil for racing! Good to know for the future tho
The vid was getting too long so I only showed it briefly in a graphic, but you also get different types of synthetic of course. Blends, PAO, ester or a PAO/ester blend. Big topic!
Honda manual on mine says: "use Honda oil" and then one paragraph later basically explains what motor oil is and that's it. Oh, and it also says I got to change it every 1000km even though it's a big dual sport... Sometimes manufacturer's manuals are just a mess. Anyway it's proven that synth oil is better for wear protection and nowadays is just slightly more expensive than semi-synth, so I just use that.
Is that the CRF450L? Lots of guys complaining about the 1000km interval. I saw a few guys had oil analyses showing they could safely double it if not riding aggressively. Even some Honda dealers are unofficially saying this. Seems crazy they didn't just make room for 500ml more oil.
@@crosstrainingenduro Nope, I have an xr 650r! Maybe the oil quantity is the reason for the shorter intervals. The brp has a 2 lt dry oil capacity (1.6 per oil filter change). I do change it according to how I ride though as you said in the video.
Interesting... the DR650 is 2.3L and Suzuki recommends changes at 6000km from memory, most of us do it twice that often. If not ridden hard I can't see why the 650R couldn't be stretched to maybe 3000km with a good oil and ridden gently?
@@crosstrainingenduro Yes that's pretty much what I do when I don't stress the engine or go off road in the summer climbing mountains. It's a very robust and reliable engine even though it has some serious power and torque! Just change the oil check valve clearances and it goes forever. Oh and thank you for your videos, I'm really learning a lot, you guys are awesome!
You have to use a non-synthetic oil while breaking in a motor because the rings need to seat. That is literally the only thing you’re doing when breaking in a motor.
I used motul 7100 on my ktm exc-f 250 but it has a issue that is when I start up or throttle all the way it burns and the factory says its better swap to normal oils but I think that I always ride on high RPM its better to switch to semi-synthetic one also ktm just says use synthetic doesnt mention full or semi
I have run motul in ktm, and beta 300's with no gearbox failures or clutch trouble. You didn't mention anything about the 2T oils, I went into top end at 104 hrs on a 300 race edition and found that the crosshatch from factory honing on the cylinder was still visible and piston/rings still mic in spec using legend's zx2 2T oil from new. Needless to say in my non professional opinion it's damn good oil
The vid was getting too long, I figured 2T oils is another topic. I suspect the choice of oil doesn't matter that much probably... I use a cheap Valvoline oil and still had the cross hatching at 200 hours. Most guys report the same.
I've never drowned my bike but others that have ended up flushing engine upto four times on recommendation from mechanic I use putoline nano tech as it coats engine and will give extra water/heat protection and requires little flushing, be interesting if this was included,, as oil is oil additives is what makes it different
When riding in Cambodia guys were regularly drowning bikes and the tour operators just put the cheapest oil once to flush them out... then went back to the good stuff. But those were TTR250s, I'm sure they'd flush at least twice for higher performance bikes.
That might be a good topic for another vid. The huge problem is that 'research' usually comes from the manufacturers then gets handed down to us the public and slowly becomes gospel...
4t Bad engine oil? There is no such thing. Imagine a large refinery of 20 hectares and there are boys sitting there making bad oil.(XD) The worst that can be is not changing the oil on time. And pouring in the wrong oil viscosity. Oil has such a parameter as pumpability. The engine is designed for 5w30 and we pour 10w60, we can obliterate the engine. "fat will not fit in the door"
There can be a variation in quality (and remember it can be the quality of the additives not the oil!) but I agree that using the correct weight and changing it regularly are probably more important. One of the studies I linked to does compare the oils for all sorts of tests and you can see variations which might make a substantial long term difference for racers and aggressive riders. But for us muppets? Meh. I've just been using Castrol 4T the last 15 years because it's cheap and does the job. If I was in the US I'd probably buy a huge drum of Rotella and share it with mates.
Bikes are built to operate everywhere. I live in the Desert Southwest USA. 120f is much more likely than 20f. especially with air cooled engines, the high temp ability is more important to me. In a 5 w 30 oil, the 5 says the oil will behave as a straight 5 weight oil would at low temps. My butt is not getting on a bike at low temps. I look for an oil that has a 50w rating like a 20w50. A 20 weight oil is plenty thin for the cold I get.
@@DannyB-cs9vx most bikes recommend a range of oils for different temperatures. My bike comes with 10w-40. I can use that from -20 C up to whatever. The manufacturer also says I can use 20w-50, but not in temperatures below -10 C. Interestingly, it doesn't recommend riding at all below -20 C.
@@gasdive only bikes fitted with a heated clutch lever should be ridden at -20. It’s also recommended to remove any plastics you prefer to keep in one piece.
Throw a cat among the pigeons, I was using semi synthetic in both my bikes at one stage as I was too lazy to carry different lubes - wonder if that's an issue (one was supposed to run on the fully synthetic Swiss stuff). I reckon the baby seal oil is probably cheaper than the Swiss gear one of my bikes drinks, it's currently a 4 stroke in training as a two stroke and costing me a bit to keep topped up. I am supposed to do a change at every 5K and it's probably burning it at the same rate (mechanic pointed out not to be too stressed as it's only burning 1ml per km and it's a.heavy pig being pushed hard in sand lately). Another one is having a weird spec oil that is not all that common, my ADV bike manufacturer recommends using a 10w 60 Synthetic the synic in me questions wether the specs were specified to reduce the range of oil producers in the market that met the spec's? Anyhow I figure breaking it all down even top price products still don't make much difference to your pocket when you calculate what oil will cost per km of hassle free riding I would rather be confident that my bike will be reliable when off the beaten track. Should maybe do one on air filters, filter oil and wether or not to grease the mating surface of them, my mechanic suggested even though it's considered old school I may not have dusted my motor if it had a rim of grease around the filter.
Very good point about air filters Jason, in the pinned first comment I've quoted a mechanic saying he's had way more rebuilds due to poor air filter maintenance than oil issues... I don't know about the 10w 60 thing. What sort of bike? Have you seen what others say about it on specific forums for that bike?
@@crosstrainingenduro Its a KTM 640ADV (LC4 Engine same base motor as 660 rally and a number of other models), originally the owners manual had 10w 50 or 15W 50 Motorex (depending on climate) but since then a technical release came out from KTM stating that the 10W 60 is now the recommended wallet emptier of choice. It takes about 1.5 liters in the engine and another 600ml in the head frame so at $130 for 4 liters (plus the cost of two OEM oil filters ) you do get that warm and fuzzy violated feeling each time you change your oil. Some forums say your getting fleeced others swear by OEM Recommended Oil, Filters and only wiping your bum with Orange crap paper. Mine is up for a top end rebuild - It's an expensive exercise and some parts are now hard to get (bike is 15 years old) I have never done a top end rebuild but tin arsed my way into stumbling across a KTM LC4 Guru of epic proportions the signed Andy Caldecott posters adressed to him up on his walls was a bit of a hint when I first met him (runs his own non brand affiliated workshop 15 minutes from home) so he is looking after my full top end rebuild plus "improving" fuel deliver system while we have it apart. The other point I hear people talk about is the engine temp and the oils capacity to perform at certain temperatures, I am always skeptical that we understand what temperatures oils are subject to as on a 4 banger the amount of heat exchange going on and being transferred to all those surfaces that oil come into contact with (including cylinder wall and the lower collar of the piston - usually under the oil scraper ring) a lot of those components will have to be way hotter than the temp sensors tell me for the temp of the cooling system. I initially pondered these deep dark musings after reading a warning in a users manual about allowing the bike to warm up before revving as the piston heats at a greater rate than the surrounding cooled water jacket of the cylinder. To me it makes sense as its just a contained controlled mini detonation (explosion) inside a lump of allow (in my 4 stroke) on average 2,750 times every minute.
I wonder if it might be worth looking at some of the synthetic diesel oils that are often 10w 60, at least here in Australia. JASO compliant and often reasonably priced too... I know that feeling of being violated by oil prices lol.
In the first few years of ktm's ownership of husqvarna, husqvarna recommended Bel Ray...........same engine, different oil! But ktm would have you believe their engine needs moterex.
I'd love to speak with a KTM insider about this confidentially... I'm sure there must be money or kickbacks involved when it comes to which oil they choose to 'recommend'.
Speaking of oil, some gear oil is leaking out of the bottom end of my 1998 cr125, since this is an older bike, I am guessing it is just a gasket issue. If anyone knows what this could be please let me know.
Put a hole in the radiator on your $10,000 thumper 10 miles from your truck in high ambient temps and you'll wish you were running synthetic oil.....This from an old school desert rider. I've been running synthetic oils for years and won't go back to dinosaur oil.
@@jamesdenton3692 Yes, but too much and the precious oil leaks out, and too little and a second clubbing is necessary which of course spoils the oil....
When my friends ask me this question, I respond by asking what the manufacturer recommends. That's probably the best place to start Lmfao! 👍👍😎🤟 Great video Berry!
Well this is an ongoing topic in various online forums. I have tried to search for information about big thumper aircooled engine oil with high temperature. I have found some answers at Motul. #firstcomment
I must admit I'm a huge skeptic when it comes to manufacturers... do they base their answers on their own 'research' or actually quote independent scientific research? I'm sure some companies actually want to provide honest answers but I'm always doubtful thinking they'll frame everything to sell more and cash in.
This story covers oil and bad riding buddies (that's riding buddies who are bad, not someone who rides badly but is still your buddy. Everyone needs that guy. He's good for your self-esteem. It's a service we provide). My first adventure on my '85 XT350 was a couple of years ago. The engine had been rebuilt but it was using a lot of oil. I had so many questions. Maybe it would settle down after a bit. Maybe the scraper ring was upside down. Maybe I just needed oil so thick it wouldn't sneak through all those gaps into the abysmal nether that all oil eventually finds itself. Anyway, the trip came round and my practical solution was... bring loads of oil with me. (Besides, a total loss system means no more oil changes). It was me, my brother and a guy we'll call R. R was a dick. From racist comments to relying on everyone else to carry his gear, he was a burden. When he lead, he didn't look over his shoulder in case someone was dropping back or fell. He never opened gates for the rest of us. He had no navigation equipment. He complained. He'd borrowed a tail pack on the day we left. It didn't fit properly because he hadn't planned it. At one point it knocked his number plate off. So every time we stopped I'd have a secret race: top up the oil in my bike while he tightened the straps on his pack. I always won because he liked to use this time to tell us about how he could do all this technical riding on his GS and when he was with the Pavey's in Morocco and he's not scared to wear his real rolex wherever he goes. So there are two morals here: don't be like R. And any oil is better than no oil (and check your piston ring sizes).
Rotella totally sucks if spun bearings, burnt rings, viscosity shears down to WD40, TBN after used = IQ of a carrot are the things you'd hear about ... but you don't so I buy it buy the pail. It's also kept my diesel alive for 19 years.
![Which Motorcycle Manufacturer is Best? [Laboratory Test]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9GAUo8eUXeU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Which Motorcycle Manufacturer is Best? [Laboratory Test]](/img/tr.png)
FURTHER TIPS AND NOTES! Don't just dump oil, take it to a recycling drop off point (e.g. automotive stores)!
A bike mechanic's opinion after thousands of rebuilds... "Most engine failures are from air filter mistakes, NOT oil! Most modern 4 strokes are capable of going more hours than most riders will keep them. Most failures are not oil related unless they have been run low on oil or its never been changed. Basically clean oil is good oil." Thanks Adam!
Your choice of oil becomes more important for air cooled engines being regularly pushed hard! Check the temperature graphic, you can see a synthetic oil will last longer before breaking down.
A big thanks to Sharon, our moped stunt rider who endured three explosions for this vid. Go girl!
Alternatives to Rotella? This synthetic diesel oil is JASO rated for wet clutches, incredibly popular and great value in the USA but isn't available elsewhere. Feel like experimenting? Just get the right weight in a synthetic diesel oil and make sure it's JASO rated.
RESEARCH SOURCES & FURTHER READING
motorcyclistlifestyle.com/best-motorcycle-oils/
motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oil.html
ruclips.net/video/6VLMfUz34R0/видео.html
www.mototribology.com/
www.bobistheoilguy.com/
540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
www.dualies.com/uploads/7/1/4/7/71477929/oil_test_results_-_g2156.pdf
Shell Rotella T4 diesel engine oil. It's JASO MA and is available in most auto-parts stores. Plus, I like that I can change my car's oil with it too.
Not that long ago Recluse recommended Shell Rotella T4 or any lube with the JASO MA specs for their autoclutches .Then they came up with there own "special" oil for 18$ Us a quart , I'll stick with any 15-40 w diesel JAMO MA lube, and change it every 8-10 hours in my 08 xcw.
I know it's wildly popular in the USA, a real bummer we don't get it here in Australia. 😢
Agree, I have used this in all my bikes, 2 or 4 stroke. It protects great, is cost effective and most importantly Available where I live
@@crosstrainingenduro maybe we can set up a distribution center through Barry
My oil choice for the chain usually makes people think I'm joking...
I run olive oil in an automatic luber. Olive oil is compatible with all flavours of o-ring. It has very high oiliness which means it spreads out to form a thin film without beading. It's not sticky, so as the oiler adds fresh oil it flings off taking the dirt with it. It cleans off relatively easily. (still makes a mess though).
37000 km on the stock chain on my V-Strom. Adjusted once so far at 30000 km and no visible wear on either sprocket.
And the oiler: fish tank air hose, two fish tank valves (one for on/off, one for metering) a dozen cable ties and a plastic bottle, total cost under 10 dollars.
One recommendation is try and use the same oil as your riding group. Comes in handy with 2 strokes. Maybe you forgot gas and have to borrow from your buddies or need some oil at a gas stop. It has always been one less worry for my group.
My father was a fitter and turner for 40-odd years. He's always said that matching the manufacturers spec and viscosity and regular oil changes is more important than anything. I like Penrite oils - Australia Australia Australia - they sell stuff to suit my bike. And it's about $40-$50 per 4 litres cheaper than the recommended brand for my bike.
As a mechanic ill always spend the extra $$ on penrite oils and decent filters, especially on my bike that im relying on to get me home, change oil sooner rather then later, its a very cheap and easy insurance IMO
Rotella mineral for about 12 years now in every thing from liter sport bikes to 450 mx and TPI’s. I’ve been riding Rekluse for the last 4 years and still no issues what so ever. I change the oil about every 30-40 hours.
I had issues with a brand new bike a couple of years back which led to alot of oil analysis. Modern 4 strokes do thin the oil viscosity very quickly, some will oxidize very quickly and ep additives play a big part in how well your bike changes gears. I found the answer the most reasonable motorcycle oil changed on a regular basis. Total 4t 10w50 high perf which is a "full syn" but actually made from a mineral base stock. I change it after every ride.
ATF in my smokers from a local farm supply, 5 gallons for under $40 USD. I use it on my suspension too. I change it often.
Quite a few guys say they settle on this because they get better clutch action compared to the recommended oils... I didn't really look into this but it sounded interesting. I've used ATF in the past and didn't really notice any difference.
As a michanic who has rebuild thousands of motorcycle motors. Hears the deal most modern 4 strokes are capable of going more hours than most riders will keep them. Most motor failures are not oil related unless they have been run low on oil or its never been changed. Basically clean oil is good oil.
Thanks Adam, always good to hear from experienced mechanics and I'd already asked a few for this vid. I've put your comments in the pinned first comment too. 👍
True, most failures are poor cooling, or bad maintenance, such as over revving the bike constantly and never changing the piston
Honestly air filter maintenance is probably number one failure point that I see hear in the shop.
Good to know, Adam!
@@adambatchelder4121 forgot about that one, another big reason why motor blow up, although very easy to prevent people get lazy and over due their filters
I just keep it simple and use synthetic Rotella t6 in the hot desert in all my bikes. 22.00 for a gallon.
I wish we had it here in Australia. 😢
I just make sure it meets the specs and don't mix n match unless it's a matter of running out.
I'll probably do the recommended change intervals unless I go on an extended adv ride (450L) and even then it won't be far off.
It's cheap to change.
Rotella T6
@@crosstrainingenduroRotella T6 5.67 litres $87.23 (including shipping to Adelaide) listed on eBay if you were keen (vendor listed as being in Regents Park NSW so probably some side hustle going on there)
My bike calls for 10w50 but I don’t see that weight available in the T6 oil.
I bottle motor oil for a living and love listing to people say this oil is crap , this is the best. Knowing full well what fluid is in that bottle.
A few guys have already said that at least with cheap no-name car oils it usually isn't any different to the mid-priced stuff... any comments? I always love hearing the inside story.
@@crosstrainingenduro We do the motorcycle, car ,truck if it takes any type of fluid we make it. Bottle for over 100 different private brands. The quality control is very tight if its not perfect its not packaged.
Depending on the fluid it is filtered down to 25/10 or 1 micron. The modern fluid is nothing like the oil of old days Im not afraid to run any of it.
KTM recommends motorex synthetic oil for my exc-f 350 but it is so expensive I wanted to try something else. I bought some Castrol oil of the same weight and specs for half the cost and not even 2 hours into my first ride on the fresh oil the bike seized. I don't do any hard riding at all, its all slow easygoing stuff, bike never hits the rev limiter. I looked in the oil level window on the case and the oil was black and well above the level where it should have been even though I slightly under-filled it because the oil container was slightly too small. The bike still cranked over after letting it cool to somewhere between 120-160 degrees so I limped it home and got the oil out and inspected it. I found small specs of what I can only assume were the oil additives coming out of solution. No metal flecks or anything solid in the oil at all. I put the motorex back in the bike and it has run fine since. I even checked the manufacture date on the Castrol oil thinking I had bought old oil but everything was as it should have been. I will never use Castrol again regardless of the application now because I'm too scared of what might happen to my engine or being stranded.
Something very weird going on there. I'm no mechanic but I suspect it's more likely that it was something other than the oil. Did it overheat? Usually when a bike seizes it doesn't come good again. It may have just overheated massively and once the piston cooled enough you were good to go again. The barrel will be scored in that case and you'll probably hit problems soon. Overheating will be bad for the bike no matter what oil you use. Google around and read about other cases... often the bike fully seizes within a few rides in any case. Occasionally they can run for years without problems.
@@crosstrainingenduroThanks for the reply. I did a bit of digging but I couldn't seem to come up with much other than a few other guys who bought this same oil on Amazon saying the oil was causing their Harleys to seize.
As far as I could tell the bike wasn't overheating. The temp only got up to about 195 F (91 C) when the bike seized with Castrol in it. With the Motorex oil in it, the temp stabilizes around 200-212 F because the radiator fan kicks on and keeps it below 220 F.
Here's the full story for my experience with my oil, it's long so get comfy!
This bike is brand new so when it seized on the Castrol stuff I kind of freaked out so I took it home that day and took it apart to check on the cylinder and the piston. Everything seemed to be as it should be, no scoring, nothing out of the ordinary that I could see. At this point I didn't suspect the oil was the problem, I had suspected it was the fact that I just laid the bike over in a puddle but it wasn't deep enough to submerge the bike or even get down in the intake or exhaust since the seat wasn't even wet when I picked it back up. I still didn't take any chances when I got home because I changed the oil with more Castrol right away to see if I could find any water droplets in the oil, I didn't find any.
The next weekend I went on a ride with my dad and we were riding along a dirt road at a fair pace to get to the trails. My temp was reading 180 F or so when we stopped to re-check the map to make sure we hadn't missed the trail and while we were sitting there as I was about to turn the bike off it seized again. I could hear a nice loud squeek as it did. I wasn't sure what happened so I tried to turn it over with the electric start and it wouldn't budge. We turned around and I started to coast down the hill we were on in neutral. Got to the bottom and there was another hill I had to go back up so I got off and pushed it for a bit then got winded so I tried starting it again. Started right up. I rode it about another 1/4 mile then it stopped again. I nearly went down because it seized on a corner and locked up the back tire. By this point I had figured out that if it cools a little it will run for a bit so I limp it back to the truck only starting it to get me up hills and coasting the rest of the way with the bike off. I took the bike apart again when I got home to triple check the cylinder and the piston and the rings and again everything seemed fine. No new marks or anything. Temps weren't hitting 200 F when it stopped running.
I dumped out the Castrol oil then put in the Motorex stuff and started the bike and let it idol until it went above 200 F and the radiator fan kicked on. Then I let it run for another 20 minutes to make sure it wasn't going to seize again and it didn't.
My best guess as to what was happening, if it wasn't the oil, is that the KTM overlords know when I don't run their recommended oil so they apply a hidden brake to my crank to punish my impudence.
Motorex is also the most expensive oil out there unfortunately and I'm not convinced they recommend it for any technical reason, they just have a nice deal with Motorex. I think KTM relies on people being too scared to really try anything else
I use Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 or 15w-40 depending on the season. The T6 is the full synth version of Rotella and it's like +$6 per gallon over the regular T4 Mineral stuff.
One of my bikes is DR650 so it's air cooled and I feel that in stop and go traffic it's safer to run the Full Synth stuff in case the engine gets overly hot. I stick with the 15w-40 and in the cooler months I might splash a little 5w-40 in to get closer to a 10w-40.
My other bike is a 03 Honda VFR and it gets the same treatment of 15w-40 in the spring and summer and 5w-40 in the winter. She runs hot, but could probably be served well enough with a mineral. Out of convenience I just use the same stuff. If I ever take her to the track I'll probably put motorbike specific full synth oil in just to be safe.
Something you didn't mention is the transmission feel. I can understand why since it's really subjective, but it seems like synth oil smooths out crunchy shifting for longer than minerals usually do. For bikes with an aggressive oil change schedule this probably won't matter between types, but on road bikes with extended intervals its definitely noticeable towards the end of the interval with the immediate improvement after a oil change.
Strike while the iron's hot, do an oil filter video!
An oil filter vid? 🤣 I thought the next topic might be the best knobby? 👀
@@crosstrainingenduro Heaven forbid you use anything but the manufacturer provided oil filter. Some people start foaming at the mouth if you use Napa Gold filters on a bike.
My 1980 Hiro 2-stroke gets ATF in the gearbox & Putoline MX5 in the pre-mix. 1200GS gets Valvoline VR1 Racing, 'cos it withstands higher temps than most so perfect for an air/oil cooled boxer that gets used off-road. The road bikes get 'stuff'. The strimmer gets Castrol R, because you can't go through life without that smell.
The smell is critical... 😊
I use spit, it works well in most high friction situations.
🤣
I've decided to switch to rotella, it's available anywhere, brought me 100s of thousands of miles on boats; I have trouble finding my moto oil brand, so time to switch ($15 a gal - more changes maybe).. mineral oil has never disappointed me, great topic👍
As long as you're using enough KTM Tears as additive you'll be set
And they are very cheap due to so much availability 😂
When I was younger I use to run the cheap chain saw 2t in my yz125.
Never had an issue 😁
Completely agree, Dave. Just keeping the oil is fresh is going to be way more important for us everyday riders than the actual type of oil.
i run semi synthetic lucas oil in my 160cc china pitbike. never had any problems with clutch slippage or burnt oil, i usually change my oil once it starts to get brown from clutch particles from slipping the clutch on purpose and then just throw in a liter of oil and it usually last me 40-50 hours of trail riding in 40f-80f temps with an oversized oil cooler on.
Side note for Two-Stroke-Mix Oil: if you have Oil Injection (Beta, KTM TPI) use a low viscosity Mixoil (Liqui Moly Offroad Race, Motorex Crosspower, Bel Ray something). If you use an Oil thats to thick (Motul 710) the injector wont pump enough to lubricate the engine even if it fits the Jaso MD standard for injection oils.
I use the rotella t6 synth here in the states i have tons of it since my trucks use it. It gets put in every bike I own, gearbox and engine and feels pretty good imo. Doesnt get changed until it's looking noticeably dirty I dont pay any attention to hours. They reccomend their brand of oil and tell you to change it way too often so they can make more money.
Shell rotella. Been using the t6 on
my crf450r and cbr600rr. No problems so far. Saved a lot of money to.
I have done a few oil analyses on my XRs and ny cars. Here is what I have found:
Air cooled bikes are VERY susceptible to interval length. An oil with 1500 very, very hard miles on the COBDR (where engine temps were sometimes 300F°) will have more additive, viscosity, and a higher flashpoint than oil run with 2000 moderate 50/50 road and dirt use. I can't speak to liquid cooled bikes, but my 2000 Ford Escort ZX2 can easily go 7500 miles on a change, which is 50% further than the recommended interval. Keep in mind, though that oil level is more important than grade or contamination level. Motorcycles tend to burn oil, and you should never let the level get too low. Also, your air filter being loose will net you far more wear on the engine than choosing any oil type. All that being said, I do run Amsoil exclusively. My father ran it in his Norton, and sold me on it for my bikes.
That's a very good point and while I didn't mention hard working air cooled bikes I'm hoping viewers will note in the relevant graphic that oil choice becomes more important in these cases! What sort of bike did you have the oil test done on?
@@crosstrainingenduro the results on interval were done on my 2004 XR650L. My 1994 XR250L with a wet sump has taken a great deal of extra wear from sand coming in through the air filter, which is how I drew such a conclusion.
ok probably don't do what I do but this is just my experience. I use car engine oil in my street bike for a long time, I bought the bike with around 10,000 miles, and it's now at around 60,000 so this bike has been on car oil for about as long as most bikes would have been scraped. when I first started I noticed the slippy clutch and put in slightly heavier church springs to overcome it and it's never been a problem since. also, the bike just had its first way overdue valve clearance check in my care at 58,000 and they were all still in spec. i never kept track of milage interrvals, just changed it whenever getting into neutral became difficult. IDK bout you guys but friction modifiers sound like something I want in an engine.
or maybe all of this has nothing to do with the oil and is just a testament to the Suzuki bandit1200 air-cooled engines.
Interesting to hear, Nick. I came across plenty of comments from guys using car oils without issues. In some cases they had clutch slippage but it didn't seem to happen often. Like so many oil issues, I think guys get so worked up about thinking their bike will explode if the put the wrong type of oil in! Personally I'll just go motorbike-specific oils but I don't get worked up about car oils being 'wrong'....
A lot of food for thought! The Colombian branded Zhongzheng bikes recommend regular ol' Castrol. I went with that during the break-in period to keep warranty. Afterwards, I ditched warranty and started using Motul. I'm in the camp of it doesn't really matter as long as you change on time and aren't riding like a maniac. I just spend the little extra because the guys at the shop say it's better and it give me peace of mind. I used synthetic once before a big trip that pushed me right up to the service interval.
There used to be a lot of info around about using mineral oils for old style engines but the experts seem to say synthetic is fine... I think those Zongsheng bikes are usually based on very old Honda engine designs?
Before Penrite started making specific motorbike oil I used to use one of their synthetic car oils in my 530 KTM. It did have a JASO MA oil rating on it so it was approved for motorbikes but not having the picture of a motorbike on the main label saved about $10 a litre
Ha, yeah that motorbike graphic is expensive Trevor. 🤣
Dunno if you can get some oil with the tractor pictures on it. It's cheaper
I use shell t6 rotella oil typicley used in diesel engines here in the usa it meets all the same requirements for motorcycle oil without the friction modifiers that car oil uses at a fraction of the price of motorcycle oil
Wish we had it here down under 😢
@@crosstrainingenduro Mobil Delvac is equivalent or shell goes by Shell Rimula. Worth looking into
You've started on now Barry. + 1 for Shell Rotella T6. Been using it for years.
My understanding is that a lot of automotive oil development and recommendation is around power and fuel economy, hence the switch to recommending synthetics.
I typically choose oils by feel, and find that a good gear oil makes for much better shifting and clutch feel. I’ve tried a lot of different stuff in different bikes and I always go back to motorex or belray.
I was curious about all the 0w-20 but they also offer better start-up protection. Which in NA at least is 80% of the wear.
Hotter temps probably help and colder probably makes this worse...
Yeah fully synthetic two stroke mix and semi synthetic Castrol gear oil. No issues yet. Prob could go for something cheaper but it just works.
My wife and i did a 4-5 thousand KM trip on our 98" DR650 from Hamburg to Sicily and back. It was summer... Hot... Up to 37C in parts of Italy. I usually had it wide open on the freeways for hours on end. All i ever did was top up the oil once about half way through the trip. Including rider weights and luggage we would of been up around 200KG. I remember on one of the particularly gruelling days thinking "I've flogged the arse out of this thing and it hasn't missed a beat". Anyway, I miss all the coffees, pizzas and pistachio croissants...
Mamma mia, the busha pigga gets a flogging! You have to love that kind of reliability.
The owners manual for my dual sport Suzuki DR 650 here in the USA recommends mineral oil. For my air cooled engines I look for an oil designed for them. Cylinder head temps can get quite high. In water cooled bikes, I have used automotive synthetic without clutch issues, but as a dirt road rider I never slip the clutch.
I don't know that manufacturers want their engines to last forever. They may want to sell you a new bike in 5 years. They may also like to sell a new bike to the person that would have bought your old one if it was running.
Ditto, I've always run mineral oil in my DR650s even though they are air cooled. But if I was crazy enough to do lots of slow hard dirt riding on it I might consider synthetic just because I'd probably be reaching temperatures that would break down the mineral oil faster...
@@crosstrainingenduro From the comment section I am wondering about oil made for diesel engines.
I've never ventured away from the recommended types of oil (for any motor) or the refresh frequency. I'm a firm believer in keeping the air and oil clean.
My particular year of CRF450R engine case separates the combustion from and transmission/clutch. I've heard of lots of riders that put very expensive, high end automotive oils with 11 herbs and spices on the combustion side. Also results in different oil change intervals for the two. I have no idea if that engine design was used by other manufactures. I personally thought it was a neat idea.
The split engine oil sections has happened in a few brands and always gets a lot of debate happening!
I'm adventure riding an old enduro bike. I don't ride hard but I do want longer service intervals. The manufacturer reccomends "10hrs or every race". I use premium synthetic oil and change every 1,000 miles/35 hrs. No issues in the 5,000 miles I've done on it. I'm the 13th owner so I have no idea how many miles it has done in total!
Given an oil analysis is only $30 or so, it might be worth checking Bernie. It might say you could go even longer without causing any issues... or being an old bike if they can see excessive wear particles they might recommend more frequent changes possibly.
@@crosstrainingenduro thanks, I'll consider it.
A few guys did it with Husaberg FE570s because they were adventure riding them very long distances in remote areas. From memory I think the oil analysis showed it was safe to quadruple the recommended interval if the bike wasn't ridden aggressively... but I'm sure this would vary dramatically for different bike models, types of oil and types of riding.
Fully synthetic engine case oil (Maxima brand) and gas-oil mix (Motul 710) in my 2-stroke trials bike. I only do this because it isn't that expensive given the volumes we use and everyone at my trials club runs it.
Do you buy big drums of it and share? How much does it work out to per litre or gallon?
@@crosstrainingenduro Hah, no. We all order it independently off Amazon or go to the local shop to buy it. When I talk about "volumes" I should have said "small volumes" because trials bikes don't use that many consumables!
Mineral oil has natural molecular structure so is random in its durability and viscosity at temperature. Synthetic is engineered to have consistent molecular structure with modifiers to maintain viscosity at temperature. The problems begin when engine oils lose their qualities over numerous heat cycles and age. Whatever your choice simply change your engine oil as often as manufacturers recommendations or sooner. New oil is better than old oil. 🙂👍
Husqvarna FE 501 4T currently using Putoline 10w60 Fully Synthetic.
To your point about preference. My KTM is part John Deere tractor. I use John deere transmission hydraulic fluid. Works good on my worn out 2004 250 exc clutch basket. Change every 6-9 hrs. T6 was great but would not let the bike start in gear. Too sticky on the plates.
Heaps of guys use ATF very happily and did not come across any problems reported online, Chad. Probably nice and cheap too?
@@crosstrainingenduro I was using ATF after rotella T6 but I found that when it got hot it thinned out too much and I lost clutch feel. My dad is a master mechanic for John Deere and their transmissions and clutches are exactly like a 2 stroke only bigger. He turned me on to the hydraulic fluid. I buy 2.5 gallons for about $18.00 U.S. It seems to be a great balance between the T6 and ATF.
Good value!
I use atf which was also recommended by rekluse.
I prefer synthetics in general as I like to reduce my intervals, and they are more tolerant of going over said intervals than a cheapo standard oil.
My fe350 is full with one qt. My 790 uses 3 qts. My mechanic says the 350 oil is working three times harder due to the smaller volume. The manufacturer recommends 15 hours on the 350 and 9000 miles on the 790, makes sence to me.
There is a lot of comment about Rottela but for those that live where it is not sold, most Diesel engine oil are excellent dirt bike oil because of their high antiwear additive content. They cost haft the price of motorcycle oil
Agree. I use Rotella, Caterpillar or Vavalene. Good for a $M engine, good for my bike.
Preach brother!
@@danmanthe9335 😂
Yep, I've messed around with synthetic diesel oil, it usually seems to be JASO rated too which is good for wet clutches.
Been using Castro mc oil for a long time. It's cheap and auto store usually have it. Ran that in several bike (cruiser, sport toured and adv bike) no issues. On new bike I usually do the first oil change after about 30 to 50 miles as that's when most metal is coming off. Then another one at about 500 miles and then about every 3k miles. The oil still look good but my Drs 400s take only 2 quarts so it doesn't break the bank.
IMO, it doesn't matter dyno or Sun, as long as you change it when recommended and a bit sooner if you push your engine a lot.
You mean Castrol 4T Activ? I've been using that for years now in every bike I've owned. Zero problems.
@@crosstrainingenduro not tge activ, the "regular" castrol 4T motorcycle oil. But good stuff and goid price !
Thanks for your enjoyable videos. There's a synthetic JASO MA2 oil for $80/5 gallons, delivered, on US eBay. I've been using that and change oil very frequently, whenever the oil gets dark brown, usually after about 8-10 hrs of intermediate riding. I think if you monitor the screens and magnetic plug, you should get a decent idea of what is happening. I see very little in the reusable screens and the magnetic plug. The paper filter gets changed every other oil change. I clean the paper filter sometimes, catching the solvent, and find very little.
If I was a real geek it would be interesting to get into all of this further and get some oil analysis done. I have heard guys say the analysis sometimes shows a good oil is still doing well even when almost black... which kind of goes against commonsense. I certainly like to change it before that point!
I've had really good luck with Lucas Oil products. Their prices are lower than a lot of Bling brand motorcycles oils. The 10-50wt synthetic works great in my KTM and GasGas two-stoke transmissions and I use the Lucas 2-stroke oil and have not fouled a plug in 7 years.
Expensive, Mike? I don't think I've even heard of Lucas....
@@crosstrainingenduro Maybe there's an opportunity to import some down under.
Just my 2 cents on using car oil, back in the 80's had a 1100 cc drag bike and was using Castrol 20-50 wt car oil and happened to look at the sight glass after a 1/4 mi pass and it was completely filled with foamed oil which means whipped up air in it which can't be good. Switched to Kendall car motor oil at track to try and no more foam. So probably best to use oil made for bikes and not cars.🤔
I've tried various oils in a DR 350 I had and it seemed to like the suzuki 10W40 synthetic. I bought a DRZ 400 and it didn't seem to like the suzuki oil as much. I switched to Motul E-Tech100 synthetic and it's happy, but DRZ's are noisy engines so i"m going to try a thicker oil this spring.
Does Suzuki charge much for their brand of synthetic?
I can tell a lot. My 350 EXC has 660h on it and I change every 20-25h. For over 100h now I use Avia Caroil. Works like normal Motorbikeoil. I also used Motul oil before for many 100h's. I noticed no difference.
But be always sure to use the 10W60 in my case
Yes, the regular change is probably what willl make your bike last, more than the actual type of oil! A mechanic who has done thousands of rebuilds left this comment.... "Most modern 4 strokes are capable of going more hours than most riders will keep them. Most motor failures are not oil related unless they have been run low on oil or its never been changed. Basically clean oil is good oil."
Oil is the most important thing. Ive done also rebuilds. Everyone should open an engine and have a look inside how many tasks oil does, u would change the oil more often
The oil Yamaha recommended for my bike 30 years ago is not event in production any more. But I run full synthetic pre mix in the fuel and what ever oils on special at the motorbike shop for the gear box but most of the time I run full synthetic in the gear box too . All modern motorbike oils are good compared to the oils for 30 years ago
Hard to go wrong with almost anything as the additives have got better over the years....
After seeing how a mineral oil flows in cold, compared to a synthetic, I stuck with the synthetic one. The price difference between them isn't big. It would be nice if you could go for a different temperature/viscosity one, than what the manufacturer recommends, since all my bikes take 10w40, except the one that wants 20w50, but that could probably lead to quite adverse effects.
Just change it regularly and use what the manufacturer recommends or better. I use rotella because its designed to be tougher
Wish we had it here... 😢
Well... I put motorcycle Castrol in my Honda VTX and worked as intended. Then I switched to Honda motorcycle oil because that was what available as a quickie. The Honda oil was per spec. However the bike shifted rough and hit a false neutral. Switched back to Castrol and shifting was 10x better and no false neutral. Don’t always believe manufacturers
Very interesting Chris! I know a lot of guys refuse to budget from what the factory says which is fine, but after all this research I wouldn't be the least bit stressed putting car oil in my bike (if nothing else was around and I was busting to ride) as long as the clutch didn't slip... which it wouldn't with our style of riding.
My local Caltex sells one brand of 10w 40 semi synthetic motorcycle oil. It works just like oil.
I buy the cheapest 10w40 Oil I can find. It doesn’t have the friction modifier’s in it like a 5W30 So the clutch works fine. Been doing that for years. I had a RM 250 for 16 years and sold it with the original clutch. It was still in spec.
Been using one same brand and weight for all 7 engines that I have (Diesel audi, two petrol suzuki cars, cbr600f, Beta 300RR two stroke, DR350, lawn mower). All running like champs. Temperature where I live varies in range from -20C to +30C (Lithuania). Not even sure if this oil has JASO MA, maybe. I think this is equivalent to Rotella used in USA. So my oil choice for everything is Shell HELIX HX7 10W-40. 12eur for 4 liters bottle, buying in 16 liter boxes every half year or so. Made this choice after saving like 20 different unfinished bottles of different oil after upgrading car or bike. Saves a lot of time as well. Cheap, stress free, time saving, what else could I want from oil?
Doesn't seem to be JASO MA but if the clutch isn't slipping then it should be fine. Heaps of guys use synthetic diesel oil, and it often does have the JASO rating too. 😊
@@crosstrainingenduro JASO MA was introduced in 1998. No idea how bikes been running before that (haha). Some japanese manuals tells to avoid "energy conserving" oil used in hybrids, because it has super slippery additives, that harms wet clutch work, but there is no additive that would increase friction (oil is not selective, it does not exclude clutch from all other parts). Or this kind of oil would be very, very bad oil ;)
regular oil changes are the key to a happy bike. new oil regardless of the brand and type is gonna be better then even the best oil thats been in there too long.
personally I use Amsoil because I have seen independents tests (not just the sales pics) that show is does a better job at lubricating and resists breakdown longer.
I have even doubled the recommended change intervals at times and Amsoil still came out looking clean and with no metal flakes.
Were they independent tests of Amsoil? I saw their own study which immediately casts doubts on its objectivity....
@@crosstrainingenduro yea im always doubtful of sponsored independent tests. This was from a channel on youtube called "project farm" he does thorough in depth tests of all kinds of products.
@@crosstrainingenduro if you search the project farm channel on RUclips, he did an engine oil comparison and amsoil won out. He’s independent.
Thanks for the info!
I’ve recently switched to 300v & 800v from Motorex CP 2T & 4T... purely on the basis that we can group bulk buy it for 40% less than the local KTM agent wants for the Motorex stuff (robbing barstewards IMHO). Been using 300v on my CBR600 track bike and its very good, comes out looking as lurid green like alien blood as it did going in. Plus at the discount price its a no brainer. Back home I used Fuchs Silkolene Comp 2 and usually the leftover Comp 4 from my CBR600 in the gearbox of my KTM smoker. All in though, any decent JASO motorbike spec oil of the right viscosity for the manufacturers recommended range changed frequently is fine. Bad oil is like bad blood... it’ll kill you/your bike.
I would love to buy in bulk but it just doesn't seem to happen in Australia...
The more I learn about oil, the less of a brand loyalist I am. Rotella goes in everything cuz it's cheap and good
Yeah from everything I read I'd be using that if it was available in Australia.
@@crosstrainingenduro yeah, I think just about any good diesel oil is fine. They have good anti wear properties, and no friction modifiers. Plus it's dirt cheap so you can always keep clean oil in your motor, and that's what really matters more than anything else. Maybe on a high revving crf250r mx bike, if you're racing then a high end synthetic oil is a good idea. Still wouldn't feel bad running a synthetic diesel oil though
I only run the most refined snake oil in my bikes, and change it once a year whether it needs it or not.
Always best when bought from a guy carting it around in a horse drawn wagon. 👍
I’ve found that olive oil works best, smells good as the motor smokes.
Good on salads with balsamic vinegar too
Simple, use what your owners manual says, if you don’t have one then you can google your manual. And unless your a big racer that hits limiter every second then you don’t need to use magical oil and plus if you are that big of a rider you have an oil sponsor.
Sometimes it's unavoidable though in smaller countries e.g. a few years ago Beta recommended some magical brand of Motorex oil which wasn't available in Australia so everyone gets worked up about it until the distributor finally says Motul will be okay lol. Availability of the recommended brand can be a problem in smaller countries.
@@crosstrainingenduro true true, in my opinion in that case that is betas fault for not thoroughly going through and thinking about other countries and their capabilities. In the case that it happens my choice would be to get any well recommended oil via the store your shopping at, or any local motorcycle shop. But in reality any oil is made in mind to keep your bike running the best is can and unless it is some huge company that’s hungry for money, you should be fine 👍
Can spot Megs Brap, always the rider with sleeves pushed up.
Hard at work... 😂
I wish I could ride like a girl!😉
one thing is ktm recommend only using motorex while husky says belray, both the engines are the same , so go figure , just my 2c ive had great luck with penrite 4st oil in my 300s for the last 5 years, it meets standards and is only $40 for 5 litres
Hi Guys synthetic oil is for sure better for your engine Although conventional oil (i.e., mineral oil) can provide adequate lubrication however it can't compete with the overall performance and protection provided by synthetic oils I’ve worked in the heavy commercial vehicle industry all my life and attended many seminars provided by some of the worlds top lubricant scientists it’s a subject all on its own
I have trucks running and using the same engine oil types with changes between 30,000 and 100,000 much depends on operating conditions so many factors involved oil analysis is the way to go if you really want to understand the what’s going on inside your engine it’s a great preventative measure.
If your mineral oil just ensure you change it at regular intervals ensuing you change your oil filter don’t forget your air filter
Enjoy your ride...!!!
It all makes for an interesting debate, Colm! At least in the dirt bike world most bikes seem to eventually die from other factors before the engine even has a chance to wear out due to cheaper lubricants...
100% so many factors buddy...!!! good maintenance is essential there’s more too it that lubricants....!!!
Very helpful, i never even questioned engine oil until now, but looks like ill be sticking to synthetic oil for racing! Good to know for the future tho
The vid was getting too long so I only showed it briefly in a graphic, but you also get different types of synthetic of course. Blends, PAO, ester or a PAO/ester blend. Big topic!
What technique do I use for oils? Myth and rumour of coarse! Works so far
And ain't it all about that? lol I had a good laugh at all the unfounded opinions when researching this!
Bobistheoilguy has been used by many a forum in an attempt to separate logical reasoning from wild mythology.
The question is, can you top up with mineral if using synthetic and visa versa?
That was already covered in the vid.
I've used Rotela synthetic blend 15-40w desiel for over 100,000 miles. No probs 👍
Seems to be THE oil in north America, which we had it here.
@@crosstrainingenduro it's only
$18 a gallon. Just picked some up today at Wally World..
I am not feeling very relaxed about this topic.
Barry does make people very agitated just by posting new vids...😂😂😂
No wonder... I've told you before you don't drink oil, it's meant to go in the bike. Just try to go to the toilet as soon as possible.
Depends on what tyres you get told to use off the internet.
🤣
Honda manual on mine says: "use Honda oil" and then one paragraph later basically explains what motor oil is and that's it. Oh, and it also says I got to change it every 1000km even though it's a big dual sport... Sometimes manufacturer's manuals are just a mess.
Anyway it's proven that synth oil is better for wear protection and nowadays is just slightly more expensive than semi-synth, so I just use that.
Is that the CRF450L? Lots of guys complaining about the 1000km interval. I saw a few guys had oil analyses showing they could safely double it if not riding aggressively. Even some Honda dealers are unofficially saying this. Seems crazy they didn't just make room for 500ml more oil.
@@crosstrainingenduro Nope, I have an xr 650r! Maybe the oil quantity is the reason for the shorter intervals. The brp has a 2 lt dry oil capacity (1.6 per oil filter change). I do change it according to how I ride though as you said in the video.
Interesting... the DR650 is 2.3L and Suzuki recommends changes at 6000km from memory, most of us do it twice that often. If not ridden hard I can't see why the 650R couldn't be stretched to maybe 3000km with a good oil and ridden gently?
@@crosstrainingenduro Yes that's pretty much what I do when I don't stress the engine or go off road in the summer climbing mountains. It's a very robust and reliable engine even though it has some serious power and torque! Just change the oil check valve clearances and it goes forever.
Oh and thank you for your videos, I'm really learning a lot, you guys are awesome!
You have to use a non-synthetic oil while breaking in a motor because the rings need to seat. That is literally the only thing you’re doing when breaking in a motor.
That's a myth, proper heat cycling is what seats the rings.
I like the oil with the crunch berries!
Mmmmm.... berries. 😍
There's not enough credit on my credit card to replace my engine, so I'll just stick to the what the manual says.
Nice a 10 minute video 👍🏻
I was trying to keep it five minutes but just too much info to cover lol. All the supporter vids are 10 to 15 minutes long though.
I used motul 7100 on my ktm exc-f 250 but it has a issue that is when I start up or throttle all the way it burns and the factory says its better swap to normal oils but I think that I always ride on high RPM its better to switch to semi-synthetic one also ktm just says use synthetic doesnt mention full or semi
Using gearsaver since the 80s. My question is why they make a 75 and 80w?
Never heard of it or that weight....
@@crosstrainingenduro Sorry. Bel-Ray gearsaver 80w
I have run motul in ktm, and beta 300's with no gearbox failures or clutch trouble. You didn't mention anything about the 2T oils, I went into top end at 104 hrs on a 300 race edition and found that the crosshatch from factory honing on the cylinder was still visible and piston/rings still mic in spec using legend's zx2 2T oil from new. Needless to say in my non professional opinion it's damn good oil
The vid was getting too long, I figured 2T oils is another topic. I suspect the choice of oil doesn't matter that much probably... I use a cheap Valvoline oil and still had the cross hatching at 200 hours. Most guys report the same.
I've never drowned my bike but others that have ended up flushing engine upto four times on recommendation from mechanic I use putoline nano tech as it coats engine and will give extra water/heat protection and requires little flushing, be interesting if this was included,, as oil is oil additives is what makes it different
When riding in Cambodia guys were regularly drowning bikes and the tour operators just put the cheapest oil once to flush them out... then went back to the good stuff. But those were TTR250s, I'm sure they'd flush at least twice for higher performance bikes.
I have read that a good 2 stroke oil will not gum up the power valve.
That might be a good topic for another vid. The huge problem is that 'research' usually comes from the manufacturers then gets handed down to us the public and slowly becomes gospel...
4t
Bad engine oil? There is no such thing. Imagine a large refinery of 20 hectares and there are boys sitting there making bad oil.(XD) The worst that can be is not changing the oil on time. And pouring in the wrong oil viscosity. Oil has such a parameter as pumpability. The engine is designed for 5w30 and we pour 10w60, we can obliterate the engine. "fat will not fit in the door"
There can be a variation in quality (and remember it can be the quality of the additives not the oil!) but I agree that using the correct weight and changing it regularly are probably more important. One of the studies I linked to does compare the oils for all sorts of tests and you can see variations which might make a substantial long term difference for racers and aggressive riders. But for us muppets? Meh. I've just been using Castrol 4T the last 15 years because it's cheap and does the job. If I was in the US I'd probably buy a huge drum of Rotella and share it with mates.
Bikes are built to operate everywhere. I live in the Desert Southwest USA. 120f is much more likely than 20f. especially with air cooled engines, the high temp ability is more important to me. In a 5 w 30 oil, the 5 says the oil will behave as a straight 5 weight oil would at low temps. My butt is not getting on a bike at low temps.
I look for an oil that has a 50w rating like a 20w50. A 20 weight oil is plenty thin for the cold I get.
@@DannyB-cs9vx most bikes recommend a range of oils for different temperatures.
My bike comes with 10w-40. I can use that from -20 C up to whatever. The manufacturer also says I can use 20w-50, but not in temperatures below -10 C.
Interestingly, it doesn't recommend riding at all below -20 C.
@@gasdive I don't recommend riding at -20c either. Wind chill would put you about -40c.
@@gasdive only bikes fitted with a heated clutch lever should be ridden at -20. It’s also recommended to remove any plastics you prefer to keep in one piece.
Throw a cat among the pigeons, I was using semi synthetic in both my bikes at one stage as I was too lazy to carry different lubes - wonder if that's an issue (one was supposed to run on the fully synthetic Swiss stuff).
I reckon the baby seal oil is probably cheaper than the Swiss gear one of my bikes drinks, it's currently a 4 stroke in training as a two stroke and costing me a bit to keep topped up. I am supposed to do a change at every 5K and it's probably burning it at the same rate (mechanic pointed out not to be too stressed as it's only burning 1ml per km and it's a.heavy pig being pushed hard in sand lately).
Another one is having a weird spec oil that is not all that common, my ADV bike manufacturer recommends using a 10w 60 Synthetic the synic in me questions wether the specs were specified to reduce the range of oil producers in the market that met the spec's?
Anyhow I figure breaking it all down even top price products still don't make much difference to your pocket when you calculate what oil will cost per km of hassle free riding I would rather be confident that my bike will be reliable when off the beaten track.
Should maybe do one on air filters, filter oil and wether or not to grease the mating surface of them, my mechanic suggested even though it's considered old school I may not have dusted my motor if it had a rim of grease around the filter.
Very good point about air filters Jason, in the pinned first comment I've quoted a mechanic saying he's had way more rebuilds due to poor air filter maintenance than oil issues... I don't know about the 10w 60 thing. What sort of bike? Have you seen what others say about it on specific forums for that bike?
@@crosstrainingenduro Its a KTM 640ADV (LC4 Engine same base motor as 660 rally and a number of other models), originally the owners manual had 10w 50 or 15W 50 Motorex (depending on climate) but since then a technical release came out from KTM stating that the 10W 60 is now the recommended wallet emptier of choice. It takes about 1.5 liters in the engine and another 600ml in the head frame so at $130 for 4 liters (plus the cost of two OEM oil filters ) you do get that warm and fuzzy violated feeling each time you change your oil. Some forums say your getting fleeced others swear by OEM Recommended Oil, Filters and only wiping your bum with Orange crap paper.
Mine is up for a top end rebuild - It's an expensive exercise and some parts are now hard to get (bike is 15 years old) I have never done a top end rebuild but tin arsed my way into stumbling across a KTM LC4 Guru of epic proportions the signed Andy Caldecott posters adressed to him up on his walls was a bit of a hint when I first met him (runs his own non brand affiliated workshop 15 minutes from home) so he is looking after my full top end rebuild plus "improving" fuel deliver system while we have it apart.
The other point I hear people talk about is the engine temp and the oils capacity to perform at certain temperatures, I am always skeptical that we understand what temperatures oils are subject to as on a 4 banger the amount of heat exchange going on and being transferred to all those surfaces that oil come into contact with (including cylinder wall and the lower collar of the piston - usually under the oil scraper ring) a lot of those components will have to be way hotter than the temp sensors tell me for the temp of the cooling system. I initially pondered these deep dark musings after reading a warning in a users manual about allowing the bike to warm up before revving as the piston heats at a greater rate than the surrounding cooled water jacket of the cylinder.
To me it makes sense as its just a contained controlled mini detonation (explosion) inside a lump of allow (in my 4 stroke) on average 2,750 times every minute.
I wonder if it might be worth looking at some of the synthetic diesel oils that are often 10w 60, at least here in Australia. JASO compliant and often reasonably priced too... I know that feeling of being violated by oil prices lol.
In the first few years of ktm's ownership of husqvarna, husqvarna recommended Bel Ray...........same engine, different oil! But ktm would have you believe their engine needs moterex.
I'd love to speak with a KTM insider about this confidentially... I'm sure there must be money or kickbacks involved when it comes to which oil they choose to 'recommend'.
Speaking of oil, some gear oil is leaking out of the bottom end of my 1998 cr125, since this is an older bike, I am guessing it is just a gasket issue. If anyone knows what this could be please let me know.
Could be a gasket or a seal or it could be a crack or a hole in the case. Gotta clean it up really good and inspect where the oil is coming from
Under 5 years engine : syntethic oil for minimalize wear on component density
5 years / up engine : mineral oil for treatment
Am i right?
I've heard others argue the other way around, but apparently it's irrelevant in modern engines.
Put a hole in the radiator on your $10,000 thumper 10 miles from your truck in high ambient temps and you'll wish you were running synthetic oil.....This from an old school desert rider. I've been running synthetic oils for years and won't go back to dinosaur oil.
Only baby seals under 4 weeks old that are clubbed a certain way produce the best oils.
🤣
Like golf, the follow thru on your swing is all important .
Nooooo..... 😂
@@jamesdenton3692 Yes, but too much and the precious oil leaks out, and too little and a second clubbing is necessary which of course spoils the oil....
@@LCARSADV Agreed! ,Best left to the professionals ,amateurs only draw attention on the mass media .
Rotella gang
I wish we had it here. 😢
Excelente como siempre ausie friend 👍🏻
Pienso lo mismo
Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷
De nada, Martin!
Car oil can for sure be MA and MA2 approved aswell :)
Yes as stated in the vid your potential issue is clutch slippage but plenty of guys have reported using a good car oil without issues.
@@crosstrainingenduro Why would there be potential slippage when its jaso MA or MA2 approved, which is a wet clutch / motorcycle specific rating?
Just googled it, we don't seem to have that MA and MA2 over here... it usually just says JASO and nothing else. Interesting!
When my friends ask me this question, I respond by asking what the manufacturer recommends. That's probably the best place to start Lmfao! 👍👍😎🤟 Great video Berry!
It is always better to be able to blame someone else for bad advice. Lol Well they said.....
Except for these Italian Beta enduro bikes. Olive oil just doesn't sound right...
@@crosstrainingenduro olive oil is for chains!
Well this is an ongoing topic in various online forums. I have tried to search for information about big thumper aircooled engine oil with high temperature. I have found some answers at Motul.
#firstcomment
I must admit I'm a huge skeptic when it comes to manufacturers... do they base their answers on their own 'research' or actually quote independent scientific research? I'm sure some companies actually want to provide honest answers but I'm always doubtful thinking they'll frame everything to sell more and cash in.
This story covers oil and bad riding buddies (that's riding buddies who are bad, not someone who rides badly but is still your buddy. Everyone needs that guy. He's good for your self-esteem. It's a service we provide).
My first adventure on my '85 XT350 was a couple of years ago. The engine had been rebuilt but it was using a lot of oil. I had so many questions. Maybe it would settle down after a bit. Maybe the scraper ring was upside down. Maybe I just needed oil so thick it wouldn't sneak through all those gaps into the abysmal nether that all oil eventually finds itself. Anyway, the trip came round and my practical solution was... bring loads of oil with me. (Besides, a total loss system means no more oil changes).
It was me, my brother and a guy we'll call R. R was a dick. From racist comments to relying on everyone else to carry his gear, he was a burden. When he lead, he didn't look over his shoulder in case someone was dropping back or fell. He never opened gates for the rest of us. He had no navigation equipment. He complained.
He'd borrowed a tail pack on the day we left. It didn't fit properly because he hadn't planned it. At one point it knocked his number plate off. So every time we stopped I'd have a secret race: top up the oil in my bike while he tightened the straps on his pack. I always won because he liked to use this time to tell us about how he could do all this technical riding on his GS and when he was with the Pavey's in Morocco and he's not scared to wear his real rolex wherever he goes.
So there are two morals here: don't be like R. And any oil is better than no oil (and check your piston ring sizes).
Did R ever end up in a shallow grave? 🤣
Another great and helpful video. TY!
Glad it was helpful!
A bit off topic, I'd be curious to know if anyone running TPI bikes is running something other than moterx for their oil injection?
Blendzall Ultra is TPI rated, I have a gallon on the way so we'll see shortly.
Great video! I follow manufacturer recommendations to choose the oil. Off topic question: how do you mount the 360 camera? On he helmet? Thanks!
Dango chinbar mount, Miguel. We've got a review vid about it.
@@crosstrainingenduro thanks! I'm checking the video now
Rotella totally sucks if spun bearings, burnt rings, viscosity shears down to WD40, TBN after used = IQ of a carrot are the things you'd hear about ... but you don't so I buy it buy the pail. It's also kept my diesel alive for 19 years.
Not sure what this means... are you against Rotella or for it? Carrots?
I use KTM's blood for my dirt bike, and Ducati's blood for my track bike.
T6! I put that shit on everything!
Yayyy clap clap clap clap
540 Rat really needs to simplify his blog!
You aren't wrong! I mean good on him for doing all that testing, but it's a hard slog working through it all lol.
Wear can I get Jarvis ball oil
Well, you have to catch Graham first. Then pin him down....