+matt4045 Well, it was cut becasue it actaully amde no sense, grey wardens can do what they want, they can forcelly conscript anyone, and are allowed touse all types of magic, becasue of the blight.
If remember correctly they Grey Wardens are allowed to use Blood Magic which is probably why the cut it from the game. They still should have added something like this in the game because as much as the fucking chantry nags about how "evil" Blood Magic is no one gives a fuck if you use it in Dragon Age Origins, Awakening or even 2.
I don't think it was cut. Ive had Wynn question me in game for having the blood mage speciailization even without using the spells and i had to kill everyone in the room.
It’s not as odd as it seems. Back when Origins released, it was hinted that Cullen would be a romance option for female mages. The story arc was to be Cullen conflicted because of his experience with mages during Uldred’s attack and his love for the Warden. It was ultimately diminished because of how specific it was (only human and elf female mages in an otherwise huge part of the game) and people never forgot it was teased as an option. You might recognize Cullen’s moral wrangling from Inquisition, where he has essentially the same issue with lyrium as the focus rather than the Warden.
@@TheSpicyLeg Except originally Cullen was never in love with the warden- he had a creepy stalker-like obsession with her and that was the extent to which it was planned for DA:O (the fact that he talks about her as temptation and states plainly that he would kill her if Harrowing went south should tip most people of honestly). That is, for the better probably, no longer canon though. The fans interpreted him as cute for whatever reason and wanted him to be a romance option which is why he returned for DA:II and DA:I, the latter having him undergo a massive character overhaul so that his romance would be plausible.
***** Perhaps, but it flies in the face of everything else, and the Warden-Commander recruiting Anders in DAO:A by overruling the Templars. It'd make more sense if Irving and Gregroir... disavowed the Warden in this case, but still honored the treaty.
SakuyaKira24 I know this is an old comment but your statement is false. Its mentioned several time in DLC and DA2 that on the topic of maleficarium and blood mages the chantry has the highest authority no matter who is present. No king or other ruler can stop them.
In most circumstances, yes. However, Sakuya is right. The Grey Wardens' Right of Conscription does trump the Chantry and Templars, assuming that the authorities in that country recognize it. DA:O and DA:OA were explicit about that.
SakuyaKira24 the conscription-right of the grey wardens seems to stand over any chantry. since thats the only reason why alistair could become a warden and you can save anders in awakening.
@@lloydevans3851 The novel "Last Flight" mentioned the rule again, but justified this by saying the Wardens were accepting mages and templars who didn't want to participate in the war, resulting in more mages than usual.
@@magicdog9523 But even then, this rule has never been true, ever. At no point in the games or the lore doe the Wardens ever had only one mage in their ranks at any given time. They always harbored at least several dozens. In the intro, we see several Grey Warden spellcasters. At the Soldier's Peak flashbacks, we see an entire cadre of Grey Warden mages. In supplementary material, it is stated that there are several Warden mages in Vigil's Keep. Then we see several mage Wardens throughout DAII and it's DLC... I really could go on. This is a massive retcon that, for some reason, still gets mentioned even when it never held true at no point in the story.
Svetlana Malavina Honestly the Templars get a bad rap they are mostly honourable, tolerant and respectful towards circle mages who understand the necessity of circles and follow its rules it’s just that Kirkwall was a very extreme case that had a Knight Commander who was nothing short of crazy
Inquisition Cullen is best Cullen honestly. I try to play multiple classes but am mostly a mage main, so I found him a bit of a jerk. I understood why though.
Well that and his speech makes little sense. One moment he is willing to overlook the magic you use to fulfill your mission because you are a Grey Warden and he has to believe you're not going to be a threat. And then suddenly he looses it when Wynne hints it could also involve blood magic. "Magic shall be used to serve man, not rule over him." While you can use mind control techniques as blood mage you could argue that it is in the name of the greater good. The Warden is the ultimate servant of man after all. Who cares if you need to bend the wills of a few lackeys standing on your way to the Archdemon? Same with Irving. Strong enough? We're talking "armageddon" level threats. There is no "strong enough" standing.
@@tywinlannister8015 It just seems to me that the very nature of practicing blood magic makes magicians perceive blood in no way as a part of someone’s life, but rather as “the more, the stronger I am.”
Yet another reason to add to why I hate templar's. Greagior: you helped us but you used blood magic and we have no authority over Grey Warden's but we'll just conveniently forget that and kill one of the only people able to kill the Archdemon. And before any of you say Alistair would be able to stop it play Darkspawn Chronicles DLC and you'll see just how successful he is.
TheEreder Think about it, IF Andraste was real and she saw the religion she created had sunk so low as to imprisoning mage's and slaughtering the Dalish elves due to the fact they have their own god's she would probably be to say less than pleased would be an understatement (she apparently freed the elves only for her follower's to imprison and butcher them thus undoing her work). I honestly get the feeling that if Andraste were real then she wouldn't care if other's had their own religion and she'd just let them be. She'd probably disband the Chantry herself if she saw her religion as it is now which has become nothing more than a murderous, slaving cult.
+Matt Allen The problem with the whole "only people able to kill the Archdemon" thing is that while it's always said that the Grey Wardens are needed to end the Blight, virtually no one outside the Grey Wardens themselves know WHY. Hell, even the player doesn't find out until the last minute. Hell, Loghain is under the impression that it's nothing but hyperbole and that there's merely very powerful against them, and who knows how common that opinion might be. It's sort of a shit deal, there are people who will assume they're not actually necessary unless they get told WHY they're necessary, but the Grey Wardens CAN'T tell anyone why because it would ruin the Grey Wardens.
+Matt Allen Andraste was mythal , she was a mage. When she said , 'Magic is to serve man" she meant it as , people shouldn't get obsessed with magic and its power. One shouldn't get obsessed with it and let it take over ones self.
Imagine an outcome where you rally all the trapped Blood Mages in the tower, kill the stronger demons like Uldred and Sloth, bind the rest, and then head back downstairs to wipe out the Templars. Your reward is that you get to add a badass legion of Blood Mages and Demons to your army in the final battle. Combine that with the Golems and Werewolves, and you have an army more terrifying than the Darkspawn themselves. Of course, there would have to be dire consequences in the epilogue slide. Where after the battle ends, the Blood Mages lose control of the demons, or try to start a rebellion to free the other Circles, and armies of Templars have to come from Orlais to put them down. But since I am on the subject of evil terrifying armies of Darkness, maybe an option to side with the Demon possessing Connor, but instead of just teaching you Blood Magic she also pledges her armies of undead to help you, replacing the Knights of Redcliffe. Edit: Now I'm really getting carried away here, and my ideas are about to become borderline crazy, but I will keep going. After destroying Redcliffe, you lose all hope of getting Eamon's support, so you simply don't bother curing him. Instead of calling a Landsmeet, you march directly on Denerim. You and the blood mages go in disguised as refugees. Once they make it inside, they summon demons to kill the guards. Then, you open the gates for the Golems and Werewolves (the actual Dwarves stay at home because they agreed to fight Darkspawn, not Humans.) With the veil weakened, the Desire Demon of Redcliffe has her demon friends possess the corpses of the guards you murdered. You then take your forces and march to the palace, facing scattered opposition because the attack was unexpected and most of Loghain's forces are fighting political rivals or guarding the border to Orlais. You reach the palace, with Loghain making a desperate but futile last stand. You kill him, and have your forces secure the city. Then, you send out a call for the armies of Orzammar to join you, and you dig in to wait for the Darkspawn horde to reach Denerim, because you can't hold the rest of the country. Once it does, the final battle proceeds as normal, although most of your companions have abandoned you for obvious reasons. You do the Dark Ritual with Morrigan, and kill the Archdemon. With most of Fereldan in ruins and you occupying the capital, you declare yourself King regardless of Origin, although it's a bit of an empty title considering there is virtually nothing left to rule. The epilogue has Alistair warn Orlais of what the fuck just happened, so the Chantry declares an Exalted March against you, and you are ultimately defeated. Alistair is made king but is ultimately unable to clean up your mess. Would screw with the DLCs and sequels, but it would have been amazing. I should make this a fanfiction.
Peter how about instead of loosing you sacrifice 200 slaves in a grand incantation wipping the templars out of existence. Then forge a new blood mage empire
I wish that there was some discussion in the games about how using blood magic doesn't have to be inherently evil. Grey Wardens use Darkspawn blood, Reavers use blood in their fighting, and mages use blood for phylacteries. I understand a taboo can be really hard to deal with, but the lack of faith from even Wynne is disturbing.
Wynne never passed judgment on anything she said here. She was questioning. There is one thing that you always have with Wynne and that is that she will not take the Warden giving her half truths. If you try, she calls you on it. It was the same thing here. I would really have liked to see what happened right after this cut, whether Wynne would stand at your side or not.
cocktailsquid Wynne would have probably been marked for death if she sided with the Warden and if she didn't fight on either side, then most likely she would have been held accountable for not stepping in and help the templars fight the Warden. They even may peg the deaths of the templars on her if the Warden had won.
Of course. That's one of those things that could end in getting one of your companions killed, just like if you tell Cullen that you'll kill all of the mages.
Keep in mind that Reavers are psychopaths who willingly put themselves on death's door for the chance to cause as much destruction as possible. They also devour the life energy of their foes to heal their wounds.
There is also the thing at Soldier's Peak that you can drink that gives you the equivalent a small group of blood magic powers, though (as with all DLC) your companions don't seem to really care if you drink it.
At this point you remind them that: "I will be fighting an *OLD GOD* at the end of this adventure, and if that means I have to seek every advantage known on Thedas' no matter how reviled, I do it willingly. I will not be found wanting when I stare down the Archdemon." Lengthen the speech to address their various points as you will, like the nonsense about being brought before the Grand Cleric. "Oh, yes. I'll just watch the country-side burn down around me and the Darkspawn conquer the land while we take a little side trip to have me exorcised or some shite."
Still would be cool if the part of this conversation would be triggered. Without "elimination" and "surrender" parts. More like a lecture and good advice.
@@Inquisitor-Beals Right, but originally they were thinking about there only being one at a time. Clearly they scrapped that idea before Origins released, since it isn't mentioned at all in the normal game.
The Warden: You're sure you guys wanna fight with me? Templars: YES. Now you Die. The Warden: Hope you remember i killed every abomination, demons and their boss alone right? Templars: We will do our duty. The Warden: Alright fine I kill every single one of you now. ....A few moments later.... The Warden: I knew this is a waste of time coming to the circle of losers.
You realize that Wynne, Greagor and most importantly Irving; vastly more powerful mage than our character, will all attack you. Probably also Lelianna and Alistair. Also every Templar around. So we will get smoked. We only defeated Uldred and other demons because we had a strong party with us.
Ironically, you don't need mages or templars for the final mission. I managed to beat the Archdemon. The dwarves and elves are really all you need. Eamon's men are just backup.
Nyrufa Grey Wardens aren't so restricted as most on the whole Blood Magic thing. And anyway, they didn't want to force you to fight these characters, especially Cullen, who has to show up later.
@@helioskitty9328 It also would make the entire trip to the Circle Tower utterly pointless because you are forced to kill both the Templars and Mages in the cut content. Wynne, Gregoire, Cullen, and Irving all turn against you and try to kill you. If you succeed in surviving, you have neither the Mages nor the Templars in your battle against the Blight.
@@anthonymurano9040 yeah? That's why it would be great, you do all the work only to be betrayed by short sited religious opinions, it matches DA very well
@@spacejesus6581 I'm going to play with mods on my 2nd playthrough (still on 1st playthrough and working on awakening xD), this cut content mods is Intriguing...
@@anthonymurano9040 I noticed a Persuasion attempt at the start. Maybe the requirement to succeed as a blood mage requires succeeding one or both of those persuasion checks.
Not surprised this was cut, fairly sure there's a line from the warden in the Wardens Keep dlc that blood magic isn't forbidden for wardens, anything to win against the blight, and everyone accepts it. Plus the joining requires blood magic and though its kept a secret Alistair says its secret because few would join if they knew they would likely die at the joining.
The only issue with it is that you need a persuasion check of 40 in order to pass this without harm; which would be fairly punishing for Blood Mage players who havent invested points into Cunning or Coercion as they would lose out on a useful companion and an entire additional army for the Attack on Denerim.
Why was this cut? I was so annoyed at the fact that no one responded to my characters using blood magic. even in Dragon Age 2 no one cares, I even stuck with the Templar's to see if maybe anyone would notice but ......no -_-
JackSpad3s More or less because there own lore states that the chantry has no hold over what a warden does. I mean for most of Awakening if you kept Anders they couldn't do anything because he was a warden.
JackSpad3s Urm, no? I am feeling you people rather overcomplicate the reasons for this cut. It's actually much simpler - Templars are out to kill you and Irving and the mages don't want anything to do with you, effectively shutting you out from gaining support from either group againts the Blight (one of the main quests). Bioware probably dropped this entire subplot because of time constraints or because they couldn't think of another way of gaining replacement support or its repercussions. Also back then, they were still working on the lore and it was until later when Bioware decided that Grey Wardens have a free pass at using blood magic.
I am split on this scene. On the one hand, it makes some sense for the Templars to take a dim view of Blood Magic and those who use it, especially in the aftermath of Uldred's attempt to take over the Circle. But on the other hand, as Greagoir himself points out, the Grey Wardens are seen by many as ruthless but with good cause. The Grey Wardens are basically an embodiment of the idea that the ends justify the means. One of the major elements of the Grey Wardens is that, because of their vital role in the war against the Darkspawn, the various conventions of Fereldan society are not applied as strictly to them. The Wardens have welcomed criminals, exiles, and traitors into their ranks over the course of their history because they'll take anyone who can raise sword, bow, or spell against the Darkspawn. So, in light of that consideration, it's not beyond imagining to consider that the Grey Wardens have PROBABLY recruited apostates and Blood Mages over the course of their history, some of whom probably had a choice of either the Wardens or execution. We can argue that Greagoir, as a Templar, would be blind to this, but we should recall that Greagoir is characterised as a more moderate, even-handed Templar compared to those with more extreme views. While he wouldn't like it, Greagoir's own words in this scene suggest that he would ultimately tolerate a Grey Warden using blood magic because of the greater threat of the Darkspawn.
What? No. DAO is when Magic was boring and extremely slow, then it got all flashy and fun in DA2, DAI found a good balance, the Knight Enchanter specialization is amazing.
Didn't Spirit specializations have healing? I don't remember, either way with how little healing is needed in DAI it would have been a waste of specialization imho@@beverlyarcher3744
I always thought there should have been more consequences for being a blood mage in Dragon Age Origins, so I guess it turns out they did have them but decided to cut them from the main game. My main "canon" Warden is a blood mage, I would have loved to have this scene in the actual game.
You would have loved to have the templars and the mages go against you instead of recruit them for your cause, after 3 hours of gameplay trying to help them? Wow.
Can't he technically invoke the right of conscription and conscript Gregoir, Irving and Cullen and pull the Grey Warden card? I guess that's why it was cut because it sounds stupid that they'd attack him even though he's the only hope against the Darkspawn.
Robin MX Wardens can't throw Conscription around wildly nilly. Their right to conscript is given to them by the leaders of the country they reside in. If they recruit unwilling people without a clear need, that right will be taken away. People will ask: Why did you recruit the aging leaders who are needed to lead the Templars/Mages when there are plenty of able-bodied recruits in their prime? Also, at this point Loghain is still in power, and he has outlawed the Grey Wardens. All those treaties are technically worthless on Fereldan soil. The only reason anyone helps you at all is out of gratitude for solving their problems. The real issue here is that Gregoir has no right to imprison the player. The Wardens are allowed to use Blood Magic, so long as they keep it behind closed doors and save it for emergencies.
Technically they could, but "Grey Warden" is a title that means nothing at that point in the game, as Loghain has pretty much banished them. So nothing would be stopping them from just declining.
This is hilarious to me. Just conscript everyone who disagrees with you. Don't like that I'm a blood mage? Rite of Conscription, the Templars are all Wardens now. Just stroll into the Landsmeet like "rite of conscription, everyone in here is now a warden!" Shopkeeper's prices are too high? Rite of Conscription, you work for me now.
@@saltedbuttercups Yes, but they don't want to do that because forcing Conscription usually pisses people off, and they don't want to rub people the wrong way after being allowed back thanks to King Maric.... Duncan even says this at one point or alludes to it.
if I was a mage for real I would join the grey wardens and then go up to a temlper and do blood magic right in his face and he would just have to stand there and take it because I'm a Warden
I really love these kinds of things--that is, bridging gameplay and story, and callbacks to your class, origin, etc. I think both games could've benefited from having more of it, especially the mage class in DAII. And wow is Greagoir's temperament completely different from any Kirkwall templar. He assumes innocence first!
I like how there are only two Grey Wardens in all of ferelden and it is common knowledge that it takes a Grey Warden to kill the archdemon albeit not why and they try to kill one of the only two knowing full well there's a blight
It says in DAII that the Kirkwall Templars are especially overzealous and suspicious. Also unlike them Greagoir and Irving have a good relationship, so he trusts the First Enchanter's word on such things. Kirkwall was where the rebellions began because that was where the biggest injustice was happening.
Blood magic should be more powerfull, with a spelltree for sumoning diferent demons and such, but to outbalance you random checks from guards and other NPCs, including making enemies with companions as it is forbidden, then it would be awesome!!! I would not mind killing Wynne if I could get op demons by my side, like you could summon lesser rage hunger and sloth demons, and have as companions, or grater summons Pride and Desire demons.
pieniaurinko Nope, you just turn abomination if you agree to demon possession, like Connor did to save his dad, and countless others, but yes that should be an option, but not for a game over but to share the body with the demon, and in higher levels take control of the demon with warlock magic. And yes when the demon control your body he could do shit stuff, but only if you agree to the possession, and in turn get cool powers!
MrFantocan Right, that's a splendid idea! Go have fun with that, I'll just be over here, with those other nice people, who are definitly *not* templars if that's what you think! (Wow, never thought I'd say something like that, even with sarcasm mode on..)
I've thought about something like this but I don't think it would be good story or lore wise since you wouldn't be playing your character anymore, since at that point demons would be in control, if that makes sense. I would have loved to see it though in the form of a companion kind of like Morinth in Mass Effect 2.
Sir Gildo Making a pact with a demon is like making a pact with a lawyer, both will try to take all you have, but you can take avantage of the situation, like you give him a chance to enter the real world and he gives you power! Not all demon pacts end in tragedy or all Blood mages would be Abominations, the Chantry and other fools will say they are the same, lies!
This is why I hate the Templars they have their heads way too far up their asses. How can you honestly try to arrest someone who willing put there life at risk in order to stop unnecessary bloodshed. So the Warden is a Bloodmage from what i've seen from playing the DA series there are mages just as evil and powerful who don't use blood magic. Blood Magic is no different than holding a sword in the right hands it can be used for good or evil depending on who holds it. Most mages are opposed to using blood magic anyway because of how it can easily attract demons. That's why all hell has broken loose in DA3 because the Templars finally went too far and the Mages have decided they've had enough abuse and want to be free from the Chantry's hypocrisy. Also Wynne is such a snake she's possessed by a fade spirit which makes her an abomination meaning she must be destroyed amazing how she forgot that little important detail. Anders and Morrigan are right what the Chantry knows about justice can fit into shot glass and the Circle Mages have allow themselves to be treated like second class citizens.
if you are born as a mage and you do believe wat the chantry tells you, you probably also believe how mages corrupted the golden City. and if you are born with this, you may actually believe that it is a curse to be a mage. that is what the circle must be thinking. templars would then also just follow their beliefs. and you gotta admit blood magic is a pretty destructive School. forcing people to do stuff and hurting your allies for your own good seems like its pretty reasonable to be forbidden. because you just cannot hope that every blood mage will stay a good person. also blood magic WAS originally thaught by demons. the ancient gods who corrupted the mages of tevinter
Shania Uchiha The only thing that I feel is "evil" about blood magic is that it is invasive and at times violating. But beyond that I agree with Ian that its only as evil as the user. The darkest version of blood magic's "origin" was from the "Old God" Dumat, So either the Old God/s created this form of magic or it was created by the Maker himself who created the Old Gods.
Shania Uchiha in response to the quote: "you gotta admit blood magic is a pretty destructive School. forcing people to do stuff and hurting your allies for your own good seems like its pretty reasonable to be forbidden." If you use the Entrophy school, then you use Death Magic, which feeds on the deaths of others to heal you and give you magic. You can also basically be a necromancer and raise undead servants to fight for you. I played a mage that had all of those abilities. They are normal abilities you get with the normal 'circle mage' selections of abilities w/o any added specialties like blood mage, shapeshifter, or any of the others you can get in DAO or DA Awakenings. No different, IMHO to use someone or something else's death to heal you or restore your mana than it is to use blood magic to drain life from your ally to heal yourself, really. And summoning undead.... do I even have to go there? But it is not a 'forbidden' school of magic. Truly the only reason blood magic is 'forbidden' by the Chantry is because it is the one school of magic the Templars cannot control. I agree, to a degree with most of the rest of your comment, it is something many would probably feel/believe, given the circumstances put forth in the game and what the Chantry, the primary religion in this world teaches. But many people tend to be 'sheep' to their religious beliefs and will not look at opposing arguments reasonably, because they are too blind to do so. This happens even in our own modern society, which is supposedly advanced, whereas the game takes place in a medieval type of time period where superstations would run rampant. I also agree with Ian G statement about how the Chantry is full of hypocrisy and the Templars are just as bad. Especially the Chantry though. You have, I assume, seen what Alistar says about the Chantry giving the Templars lyrium, supposedly to be able to use their abilities, but in reality it is a form of control, as lyirum is highly addictive and the Chantry controls all of the legal trade with Orzamar for it. And during the Denerim quests, once you get there to call the Landsmeet, you see what happens to a person who is going through lyrium withdrawals. Pretty scary.
+Raigh Darkhawk It is only as destructive as you want it to be.....you don´t need to drain life of anyone, and it does not force you to anything, you decide.
I love that you managed to dig this up from the cut content. It's very interesting. I especially wonder about the Wardens only having one Mage at a time. This is not so. Or is it?
It isn't, Wynne was refering to there only being one Grey Warden Mage present at Ostagar, namely the character. The Wardens Employ Many Mages at a time, but they're usually balanced in their assigned groups, more or less because even the Wardens know better than there to be more Mages around than they can handle themselves if push comes to shove.
Cid Alderlaine Ok, I can believe that. though I wonder how Wynne would know about the Grey Warden Mages only being one at a time? Where did you get the info on how the mages are distributed around different Grey Warden groupings?
Scroll It's shown in various instances that Mages are distributed as fewer than the rest of their assigned groups, most likely as a safety measure in case the Mage becomes a Demon and the other members have to take it down without risking the chance of another Mage in their group turning demon too along with it, though that is assumptious mostly. One instance is in The DA2's "Legacy"-DLC where one of the Outposts maintainers is a mage, the only mage of the place no less. On other occassions we see there being almost no mages following any groups like the one in the Deep Roads who takes away Bethany/Carver. (Said Sibling is seen later on in their respective groups again, in Bethany's case; She's the only mage of her group) But again, Wynne spectulates that there were only one Grey Warden Mage AT OSTAGAR, namely the Protagonist in this case, though there is a Grey Warden Encampment housing an ambigeous number of people, maybe there are more mages there? Her befuddlement is most likely because you were only there in one night and surely no one masters spells like Blood Magic over the cause of a single day, especially considering all the stuff the Protagonist has to go through on said day prior to engaging the Darkspawn Horde. In other words, who taught the Protagonist? All the other Warden's died at Ostagar, there's mentioning of "Books containing information only for Grey Wardens" but that still didn't stop the Templar or Wynne from wanting to turn the Grey Warden in :/ Friggin' Circle Loonies...
Cid Alderlaine This makes sense even if it's mostly speculation. :) I like how they talk about the Wardens being able to use strange measures in a time of need. But I also like how they think they can force jurisdiction over a Warden Mage. If a more senior Warden was there, would he have been able to pull rank? I do believe that the Wardens themselves might have different rules and that they see themselves as being - not above everyone else - but an untouchable, neutral force of their own. Would be great if we got to get some lore info about the Grey Wardens codex of honor or rules when it comes to this kind of stuff. They do recruit thiefs and murderers (Duncan was a thief), they do have a history of bloodmages (Soldiers Peak DLC)
I think it relates to the Wardens of Old. at Soldiers Peak their was only one main Warden Mage who conducted all the magical research. since the Wardens were banished from Ferelden after that, most citizens probably dont know that much
Well ... Blood Magic is forbidden by the Chantry, but Grey Wardens kinda take a piss on the Chantry's laws. Besides the issue is bullshit. Blood Magic is linked to dark stuff sure. But look at the entropy school of magic. That's legal. There's actually a lot creepier shit in there than Mind control. It's a powerful school of magic. Like with anything powerful you don't want kids toying around with that. You need to be responsible. As in not getting baited by the first demon to offer a deal for instance. A remembering such power comes at a price. Grey Wardens can wield it because they usually are responsible enough to do so. A common mage though ? Not so much.
its because Blood magic was originally taught by demons to mortals and is also believed to be the cause of the blight in the first place as the magisters who caused it were blood mages
This kind of content should not have been cut from the game. It is most interesting. :P Not to mention even more story-related incentive to play as a Blood Mage.
+White Raven It makes sense it was cut, since grey wardens are allowed to conscript anyone they want, and to sue every type of magic they need to stop the blight....it would have been stupid if wynne said that.
Dexter Dexter It still would've been interesting if this dialogue was in the game. It's not like I'm saying you should be _forced_ to fight against Greagoir & Irving upon the discovery of your ability to use Blood Magic. ^ If they didn't cut the dialogue, the conversation would've ended with several dialogue options, including reminding them that you're a Grey Warden. Of course Blood Magic would be condoned by the Wardens, as a useful tool.
Even so, if the Chantry says it shouldn't be done, it just makes me want to do it all the more. DOWN WITH THE CHANTRY!! DOWN WITH ANDRASTE!! DOWN WITH OPPRESSION!!
It kinda makes sense since it's the forbidden art. Wardens can use it because that is basically a way to show that they can do whatever is necessary. It should have been cut from DA 2 too, but DA2 is wierd so who cares.
It's so funny Greagor acts like he has jurisdiction over a Grey Warden. A Warden could summon a pride demon to fight darkspawn and he couldn't do a damn thing about that Warden. Templars always like to overreach like the cops they are.
lol tevinter uses it all the time I really doubt fighting the darkspawn without knowing a lot about evil magic is a possibility. I think its funny only shamanic magic is considered ok in DAO.
Tevinter is a different country. It does not mean anything that they use it. They also allow slavery. In the real world different countries might forbid something that can be allowed in other ones as well. Most of the countries consider bm to be evil and practicing it carries the death penalty. And no magic is "ok" in origins unless it's regulated by the circle and the chantry.
They don't even have the right to say anything against a grey warden, because they have special rights. They can use any form of power if it's used to fight against the blight and the dark spawn.
Errantus There's a difference between putting spiritual value on a tool and putting magical value in a spirit... Blood mages by necessity consort with demons. Allowing more people to try will result in more abominations, and Blood Mages themselves are also more susceptible to becoming abominations. Plus, the sort of person who would put a demon in a situation where it would feel it wise to offer Blood Magic training is probably not a person you want on your side, in most cases, doubly so considering they can control minds. That's not flashy, and it's useless against darkspawn, but it's very effective against, say, the Circle itself. Overall, it's just too risky. That's the whole reason for the Templars and their constriction of the mages, really; because the templars are much better-equipped to defeat Blood Mages and abominations than the magi would be on their own. Oh, but don't worry, you're not alone. Most people in Tevinter would agree with your stance.
@@helioskitty9328 There is no true difference between spirits and demons. They're both influenced by mortal thoughts and perceptions. In the way you appear to be putting it, that would make spirit healers who call upon spirits of compassion no better than blood mages.
Gregor is kind of stupid, why would you kill the only warden who can save this and The wardens can use blood magic if there is no another choice! And Gregor has no right to judge if he uses bloood magic just for the fact that he is a grey warden
Not to mention, is it really a smart thing to pick a fight with the dude who just cleared the entire tower? The same tower that you wanted reinforcements to even enter?
It would’ve been interesting to actually get the option to turn yourself in, similar to how you can surrender to Ser Cauthrien. And then convince the grand cleric to pardon you or having to break out.
If this had happened I would be simultaneously thrilled by the twist and pissed off about having to start from a safe save and going through the damn fade again lol
Wow didn't know this existed, it's pretty cool. I decided to play as a blood mage in fact, in my last playthrough. Experiencing this would have been something else. Thank you for sharing
This there can be only one mage warden is soooo b*lshit. You can make Bethany join in DA2 while mage hero of ferelden lives. Also you can make Anders and Valenna gray wardens as a mage warden during awakening.
Akula Doktor There's a reason the content was cut. They were still working out the lore at the time. Grey Wardens actually also have pass to use Blood Magic in canon, too; they just hadn't figured these bits all out yet.
it would be cool, if there was more option then one, like liying to them and if your manipoulation is great enough you can convice them that its not blood mage or something like that. hope some day there will be a directors cut edition instead of a remaster haha
Interesting, but hardly jives with the whole "Wardens do as they must" mantra the rest of the game preaches, and that the Chantry has no jurisdiction over the Wardens has a whole. Not to mention this would make me off Wynne. Snitches get stitches and all that.
And she would've totally deserved it, too. So much for gratitude. You save the Circle and are the only hope for Ferelden to survive, and yet she totally sells you out and dooms you to life imprisonment or death for doing the morally right thing.
I love this, but... Gregoir doesn't have any authority whatsoever over a Grey Warden, Mage or not. The Grey Wardens are outside of Templar jurisdiction. Duncan can literally use his Grey Warden authority to conscript ANYONE, including if they don't want to go, or if the Circle doesn't want to free them. He can conscript people who are in line for execution, too. A Grey Warden is way above a Circle's Templar commander.
Anyone think BioWare cut this because they were afraid people would get frustrated and review bomb the game if they could recruit neither the mages nor the templar after spending 5 hours fighting through the fade?
you'd think she of all people would know better. she's proof that it's not so black and white. she's got a spirit inside her yet she's not evil and the spirit doesn't force her to do anything bad. the warden uses blood magic to help people and only harms criminals, it's like where that brain at.
It's funny because I used to loved Wynne in my first playthrough, when I was a Cousland who was nice and played by the rules. Then when i played as a more rebellious blood mage, and questioned more Wynne's views, I saw just how much a hypocrite she is and how hostile she can be when you don't agree with her. Kinda lost all her "kind" grandmotherly appeal after that. Love how multidimensional the characters were back in DA:O.
I understand why it was cut, but this is very cool. I wonder if there would have been an “appeal to the Grand Cleric” section that you could have done to resolve this peacefully.
It actually does not. How is it makes more sense? You save the mages and the templars, but since your methods were questionable, now you have to kill them all? It's just dumb. Not to mention one of your would be companion turns on you for a specialization? Stupid. This would mean that if you play as a bm(the 2nd best spec) you have to kill the templars, the mages and wynne. This way nobody would want to play as a bm. So much for "whatever it takes to defeat the darkspawn"... Not to mention it's not a clear choice the first time, but a complete surprise. So you basically have to reload your game back where you were not a bm, to avoid this nonsense.
1:18 Only one mage warden at any one time? Reminds me of Vivienne telling the Dalish Inquisitor about Dalish clans exiling mages if there are too many (more than 3). Bioware likes having the traditionalists (Wynne, Vivienne) give world-building trivia.
Wow, I had no idea this was in the game. Fascinating, thanks for sharing! I can understand why they would cut it though, it would cause a good deal of trouble in the Circle questline... Also, there's only one mage Warden at any time? When was this decided? I could've sworn I've seen other mage Wardens throughout the games... Seems rather silly of a rule to not allow more than one mage Warden at a time when the Wardens are completely fine with demanding help from the mages via old treaties in times of Blight.
I believe that was retconned. The guy preparing Duncan's room during the mage origin story mentions it, but that's about it. That doesn't come up ever again during the game and you can even recruit 2 aditional mages in Awakening. No clue if it gets brought up again in DA 2 or Inquistion. I haven't played those two.
I really wish blood magic was in Inquisition, though I hear where a Warden gets a pass because everyone agrees the ends justify the means during a blight for Wardens. Though I can only imagine how much harder a time Josephene would have if you were one. Mortalitasi methods are more accepted and yet she'd have to bury a LOT of that.
The gall! The Grey Wardens are excempt from the Chantry's laws, for a good reason no less, so frankly those Templars are doing what all of them do (yes: I am pro-mage and think they should be allowed to govern themselves, they can after all do harrowings themselves should they see the need): Persecute mages because they can -.-
Would've been awesome if you could summon low tier demons such as 2 Shades or 1 greater rage demon. Blood magic was kinda disappointing imo, all the stigma & fear of it didn't live up to the hype in the skill tree. It's hilarious at how you save the circle and then Wynn decides to snitch on you being a blood mage to Gregoire & Irving meanwhile she's an abomination except she has control.
"There is only ever one Grey Warden mage at a time" - lol, bollocks. Guess they went back on that Also, I know this is cut content but does this mean you will get neither Mages nor Templars to help you? I mean, if you kill Gregoir and Irving, there's not really anyone alive to help :P
colt grisham No, it would not, you just need to think about it a bit. In Dragon Age: Awakening, the expansion to Origins, the Warden Commander (i.e. you) can recruit both Anders and Velanna, both are mages. Also, if the player is a mage themselves, the wardens will have not two but three mages at the same time. This rule is something they created for Origins and then scrapped, which might be part of the reason this content was cut.
It was probably Ferelden thing. They were banned for a long time and only recently started rebuilding the order. New ruler might have recalled that restriction, being Grey Warden puppet and all.
Celestia Imagine an outcome where you rally your fellow blood mages, clear the tower of both Demons and Templars, and then they join your army. Hell, maybe the Blood Mages could even combine their powers to bind some of the demons, so you can go into the final battle with a badass demon army. Something like that would be awesome. Of course, there would have to be dire consequences in the epilogue slides, like there were with the Golems and Werewolves.
Odd conversation though, is there only one option as answer throughout this conversation? Imagine an intimidate check here... ''[Intimidate] You dare challenge a blood mage?!'' That would be fun, wish being a blood mage would have people ask questions a bit more. I get why they cut this because of warden immunity but I think the conversation shouldve been in there, really adds to the blood magic dilemma. *** minor spoiler *** But with this being cut it was always awkward to me that Wynne INSTANTLY leaves your group if you defile the ashes, BUT casting blood magic next to her face throughout the game is no problem?
I am answering your question...the reason why it is okay to use Blood Magic is because the Warden immunity, but to dfile the ash have nothing to do with it, that's why Wynne and Leliana left or attack you
So you're saying that the highly emotional and ethically based Wynne accepts blood magic usage because of Warden immunity? I find that unlikely. This is just where DA:O lacks a little bit, because this reaction by Wynne is a bit out of nowhere, yet not even a comment is made on your blood magic. There is a big difference between ACCEPTING blood magic, because of warden immunity, and rightout ignoring it, the latter which we see in-game.
Warden immunity never being properly addressed in the game, they should make it a clear cut what the Wardens are allowed and not allowed to do during The Blight. We just assume what we can do throughout the game, our mentor is dead anyway, and Alistair only recruited for 6 month. They established that the Warden can do drastic measure during The Blight, but that is only when Duncan did it. Grand Cleric don't want to release Sten even when we invoke the Right of Conscription for example.
Ironically, usage of blood magic actually has a side effect of slightly numbing the connection to the fade according to the lore. The primary that blood mages tend to be somewhat more susceptible to possession is because the primary source of learning IS demons unless you're from Tevinter.
I'm sorry, but the conversation should have ended at "I'm a Grey Warden." The Templar have no, and I mean NO, jurisdiction over the Grey Warden Mages, especially during a Blight, beyond what the Grey Wardens allow. Shock of shocks, the fantasy cops are overreaching and abusing their authority. Truly art imitates life.
Glad they cut this out. Sad they didn't include a finished version of this. Not as bad as how everyone ignores you being a mage, let al one a blood mage in DA 2 but still. x'D
I always found this subject interesting in DA, mages are dangerous and blood magic is basically selling your soul but their world is filled with so much evil shit any ways, why not have mages hunt monsters, its a win win, mages will probably end up dead and monster population drops, especially during the blight.
mrsanatra1 blood magic isn't selling your soul. a mage can tap into the power of blood without a demon's aid. The chantry says it's evil because it can lead to a mage dealing with demons, but in all honesty that's no different from a mages normal life. constantly fighting the temptation to succumb to "true power".
Ngl I hate that this was cut Also seeing that they're saying that grey wardens have their own spells I wonder if DAD will introduce a warden spell spec I wouldnt mind that all especially if we have a companion whose a GW NOT like boring blackwall
The hate on mages in Dragon Age franchise is the reason why i made my Warden Commander, Champion, and Inquisitor mages... i simply love how the very thing they hated is the one that saves their asses... best part is to make them blood mages :D
its a mod, i believe. without mods, there is only one incident where you can interact with blood magic specialization in dialogue, which is in dragon age: awakening if you make anders a blood mage, you can bring up the fact he's a blood mage after he explains that the templars would have executed him for being a maleficar because he was an apostate.
@melchCody Then it's bugged. At the very least, you need a mod to get this installed. I heard this was removed because if you admit to being a blood mage and win the fight, you'll be killing the leader of the Mages and Templars, and you'd be short one army at endgame.
I can understand why this was cut. If someone decided to use blood magic all of a sudden the circle and the templars fight you and you are left with only 3 armies instead of 4.
I'm laughing tho, Wynne says that there was only one mage in the wardens at the time, like do they not know that wardens have a fuck ton of every class of person because the blight needs to be handled by every capable person on deck, and whether or not they're a mage doesn't factor in. Dying at Wynne trying to add rules of the grey wardens
Damnit he is such a pain but I still love him damnit Cullen plus why does Cullen and Alistair have to sound so close to each other when their arguing WHY? Wait what one mage warden at a time? Shit does that mean we broke a law? WYNNE YOU ARE NOW MY LEAST FAVORITE PARTY MEMBER AND THATS SAYING SOMETHING AS I HATE VIVIENNE AND VARRIC
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Wish they didn't cut this, I was hoping for more of this sort of thing, with Blood Magic being so taboo it was odd to have nobody question it.
+matt4045 Well, it was cut becasue it actaully amde no sense, grey wardens can do what they want, they can forcelly conscript anyone, and are allowed touse all types of magic, becasue of the blight.
If remember correctly they Grey Wardens are allowed to use Blood Magic which is probably why the cut it from the game.
They still should have added something like this in the game because as much as the fucking chantry nags about how "evil" Blood Magic is no one gives a fuck if you use it in Dragon Age Origins, Awakening or even 2.
Still funny how I usually give Wynne the Blood Mage spec and she acts like this.
I hope in the next dragon age they bring back the blood mage specilization I really missed not having it in inquisition
I don't think it was cut. Ive had Wynn question me in game for having the blood mage speciailization even without using the spells and i had to kill everyone in the room.
You know I'm actually amazed that Cullen of all random nobody characters appeared in all 3 games, with the same voice actor, and got more important
Cullen the Cinnamon Roll xD
It’s not as odd as it seems. Back when Origins released, it was hinted that Cullen would be a romance option for female mages. The story arc was to be Cullen conflicted because of his experience with mages during Uldred’s attack and his love for the Warden. It was ultimately diminished because of how specific it was (only human and elf female mages in an otherwise huge part of the game) and people never forgot it was teased as an option. You might recognize Cullen’s moral wrangling from Inquisition, where he has essentially the same issue with lyrium as the focus rather than the Warden.
@@TheSpicyLeg Except originally Cullen was never in love with the warden- he had a creepy stalker-like obsession with her and that was the extent to which it was planned for DA:O (the fact that he talks about her as temptation and states plainly that he would kill her if Harrowing went south should tip most people of honestly). That is, for the better probably, no longer canon though.
The fans interpreted him as cute for whatever reason and wanted him to be a romance option which is why he returned for DA:II and DA:I, the latter having him undergo a massive character overhaul so that his romance would be plausible.
@@ZundelArt For real. Cullen has always been creeping and an annoying character and Cullen-stans highly concern me.
The chantry has no jurisdiction over warden mages, and iis most likely why this was cut
not really... the Chantry CANT do anything agents a Warden Mage not even a blood mage the best they could have done was have wynne leave.
***** Perhaps, but it flies in the face of everything else, and the Warden-Commander recruiting Anders in DAO:A by overruling the Templars. It'd make more sense if Irving and Gregroir... disavowed the Warden in this case, but still honored the treaty.
SakuyaKira24 I know this is an old comment but your statement is false. Its mentioned several time in DLC and DA2 that on the topic of maleficarium and blood mages the chantry has the highest authority no matter who is present. No king or other ruler can stop them.
In most circumstances, yes. However, Sakuya is right. The Grey Wardens' Right of Conscription does trump the Chantry and Templars, assuming that the authorities in that country recognize it. DA:O and DA:OA were explicit about that.
SakuyaKira24 the conscription-right of the grey wardens seems to stand over any chantry. since thats the only reason why alistair could become a warden and you can save anders in awakening.
"Only one mage Warden at any given time"
Love that big ol' retcon
Its not really a retcon, its just who enforces those rules?
Only wardens themselves.
-Looks intensely at the wardens of orlais- seems to be only one mage there they’re good
@@lloydevans3851 The novel "Last Flight" mentioned the rule again, but justified this by saying the Wardens were accepting mages and templars who didn't want to participate in the war, resulting in more mages than usual.
@@magicdog9523 But even then, this rule has never been true, ever. At no point in the games or the lore doe the Wardens ever had only one mage in their ranks at any given time. They always harbored at least several dozens. In the intro, we see several Grey Warden spellcasters. At the Soldier's Peak flashbacks, we see an entire cadre of Grey Warden mages. In supplementary material, it is stated that there are several Warden mages in Vigil's Keep. Then we see several mage Wardens throughout DAII and it's DLC... I really could go on. This is a massive retcon that, for some reason, still gets mentioned even when it never held true at no point in the story.
@@DraculaCronqvist i always took it as every 1 region having 1 mage warden except for Wheisshaupt fortress. That makes alot more sense
After the templars in Kirkwall you realize that Greagoir is actually really cool.
Actually yes.
He is very reasonable and tolerant
When do you go to Kirkwall?
Nicole Song Dragon Age II. They were simply comparing Greagoir to other Templars. There’s actually not that many in Origins now that I think of it.
Nicole Song in dragon age 2
Svetlana Malavina Honestly the Templars get a bad rap they are mostly honourable, tolerant and respectful towards circle mages who understand the necessity of circles and follow its rules it’s just that Kirkwall was a very extreme case that had a Knight Commander who was nothing short of crazy
It is so strange seeing Cullen from Origins again after playing Inquisition for so long. The noodle hair!
Hahaha love the f! Mage warden flirting sending him running that's still a joke today
Inquisition Cullen is best Cullen honestly. I try to play multiple classes but am mostly a mage main, so I found him a bit of a jerk. I understood why though.
2000's Justin Timerlake
-We must eliminate you...
-Oh fck of Gregoir, I cleaned up a tower full with demons a minute ago, you was afraid off, and now you want to stop me?
Well that and his speech makes little sense.
One moment he is willing to overlook the magic you use to fulfill your mission because you are a Grey Warden and he has to believe you're not going to be a threat.
And then suddenly he looses it when Wynne hints it could also involve blood magic.
"Magic shall be used to serve man, not rule over him." While you can use mind control techniques as blood mage you could argue that it is in the name of the greater good. The Warden is the ultimate servant of man after all. Who cares if you need to bend the wills of a few lackeys standing on your way to the Archdemon?
Same with Irving. Strong enough?
We're talking "armageddon" level threats. There is no "strong enough" standing.
@@tywinlannister8015 It just seems to me that the very nature of practicing blood magic makes magicians perceive blood in no way as a part of someone’s life, but rather as “the more, the stronger I am.”
Yet another reason to add to why I hate templar's.
Greagior: you helped us but you used blood magic and we have no authority over Grey Warden's but we'll just conveniently forget that and kill one of the only people able to kill the Archdemon.
And before any of you say Alistair would be able to stop it play Darkspawn Chronicles DLC and you'll see just how successful he is.
It's cut content for a reason...
TheEreder The only good Chantry is a disbanded Chantry.
TheEreder Think about it, IF Andraste was real and she saw the religion she created had sunk so low as to imprisoning mage's and slaughtering the Dalish elves due to the fact they have their own god's she would probably be to say less than pleased would be an understatement (she apparently freed the elves only for her follower's to imprison and butcher them thus undoing her work). I honestly get the feeling that if Andraste were real then she wouldn't care if other's had their own religion and she'd just let them be. She'd probably disband the Chantry herself if she saw her religion as it is now which has become nothing more than a murderous, slaving cult.
+Matt Allen The problem with the whole "only people able to kill the Archdemon" thing is that while it's always said that the Grey Wardens are needed to end the Blight, virtually no one outside the Grey Wardens themselves know WHY. Hell, even the player doesn't find out until the last minute. Hell, Loghain is under the impression that it's nothing but hyperbole and that there's merely very powerful against them, and who knows how common that opinion might be. It's sort of a shit deal, there are people who will assume they're not actually necessary unless they get told WHY they're necessary, but the Grey Wardens CAN'T tell anyone why because it would ruin the Grey Wardens.
+Matt Allen Andraste was mythal , she was a mage.
When she said , 'Magic is to serve man" she meant it as , people shouldn't get obsessed with magic and its power. One shouldn't get obsessed with it and let it take over ones self.
Imagine an outcome where you rally all the trapped Blood Mages in the tower, kill the stronger demons like Uldred and Sloth, bind the rest, and then head back downstairs to wipe out the Templars.
Your reward is that you get to add a badass legion of Blood Mages and Demons to your army in the final battle. Combine that with the Golems and Werewolves, and you have an army more terrifying than the Darkspawn themselves.
Of course, there would have to be dire consequences in the epilogue slide. Where after the battle ends, the Blood Mages lose control of the demons, or try to start a rebellion to free the other Circles, and armies of Templars have to come from Orlais to put them down.
But since I am on the subject of evil terrifying armies of Darkness, maybe an option to side with the Demon possessing Connor, but instead of just teaching you Blood Magic she also pledges her armies of undead to help you, replacing the Knights of Redcliffe.
Edit: Now I'm really getting carried away here, and my ideas are about to become borderline crazy, but I will keep going.
After destroying Redcliffe, you lose all hope of getting Eamon's support, so you simply don't bother curing him.
Instead of calling a Landsmeet, you march directly on Denerim. You and the blood mages go in disguised as refugees. Once they make it inside, they summon demons to kill the guards. Then, you open the gates for the Golems and Werewolves (the actual Dwarves stay at home because they agreed to fight Darkspawn, not Humans.) With the veil weakened, the Desire Demon of Redcliffe has her demon friends possess the corpses of the guards you murdered.
You then take your forces and march to the palace, facing scattered opposition because the attack was unexpected and most of Loghain's forces are fighting political rivals or guarding the border to Orlais.
You reach the palace, with Loghain making a desperate but futile last stand. You kill him, and have your forces secure the city. Then, you send out a call for the armies of Orzammar to join you, and you dig in to wait for the Darkspawn horde to reach Denerim, because you can't hold the rest of the country.
Once it does, the final battle proceeds as normal, although most of your companions have abandoned you for obvious reasons. You do the Dark Ritual with Morrigan, and kill the Archdemon. With most of Fereldan in ruins and you occupying the capital, you declare yourself King regardless of Origin, although it's a bit of an empty title considering there is virtually nothing left to rule. The epilogue has Alistair warn Orlais of what the fuck just happened, so the Chantry declares an Exalted March against you, and you are ultimately defeated. Alistair is made king but is ultimately unable to clean up your mess.
Would screw with the DLCs and sequels, but it would have been amazing. I should make this a fanfiction.
Angus the Skeleton that is actually interesting, would be a nice dlc
Tevinter might consider allying with such a force, if the "Ceased" their blood magic use.
Peter PLEASE do!
Peter how about instead of loosing you sacrifice 200 slaves in a grand incantation wipping the templars out of existence. Then forge a new blood mage empire
DirtyDan that's a bit much. that's is why people hate blood magic. I enjoy blood magic but using others blood to cast instead of your own is evil
I wish that there was some discussion in the games about how using blood magic doesn't have to be inherently evil. Grey Wardens use Darkspawn blood, Reavers use blood in their fighting, and mages use blood for phylacteries. I understand a taboo can be really hard to deal with, but the lack of faith from even Wynne is disturbing.
Wynne never passed judgment on anything she said here. She was questioning. There is one thing that you always have with Wynne and that is that she will not take the Warden giving her half truths. If you try, she calls you on it. It was the same thing here. I would really have liked to see what happened right after this cut, whether Wynne would stand at your side or not.
cocktailsquid Wynne would have probably been marked for death if she sided with the Warden and if she didn't fight on either side, then most likely she would have been held accountable for not stepping in and help the templars fight the Warden. They even may peg the deaths of the templars on her if the Warden had won.
Of course. That's one of those things that could end in getting one of your companions killed, just like if you tell Cullen that you'll kill all of the mages.
Keep in mind that Reavers are psychopaths who willingly put themselves on death's door for the chance to cause as much destruction as possible. They also devour the life energy of their foes to heal their wounds.
There is also the thing at Soldier's Peak that you can drink that gives you the equivalent a small group of blood magic powers, though (as with all DLC) your companions don't seem to really care if you drink it.
At this point you remind them that:
"I will be fighting an *OLD GOD* at the end of this adventure, and if that means I have to seek every advantage known on Thedas' no matter how reviled, I do it willingly. I will not be found wanting when I stare down the Archdemon."
Lengthen the speech to address their various points as you will, like the nonsense about being brought before the Grand Cleric.
"Oh, yes. I'll just watch the country-side burn down around me and the Darkspawn conquer the land while we take a little side trip to have me exorcised or some shite."
I do believe that is why it was cut
Yeah, I don't see Greagor being stupid enough to drag a Warden away from a Blight.
This makes no sense, it is confirmed that Grey Wardens are given a pass to use blood magic.
Yeah it's from an early build when they were still sorting the lore out - only one Grey Warden mage at a time? Still cool to see though.
Still would be cool if the part of this conversation would be triggered. Without "elimination" and "surrender" parts. More like a lecture and good advice.
Or the chance to break their arguments into pieces by repeatedly yelling "FOR THE GREATER GOOD!!" at the top of your lungs.
@@zanite8650 in awakening there are three warden mages. You if you are a mage, anders, and the elven woman you recruit in the wending woods
@@Inquisitor-Beals Right, but originally they were thinking about there only being one at a time. Clearly they scrapped that idea before Origins released, since it isn't mentioned at all in the normal game.
The Warden: You're sure you guys wanna fight with me?
Templars: YES. Now you Die.
The Warden: Hope you remember i killed every abomination, demons and their boss alone right?
Templars: We will do our duty.
The Warden: Alright fine I kill every single one of you now.
....A few moments later....
The Warden: I knew this is a waste of time coming to the circle of losers.
You realize that Wynne, Greagor and most importantly Irving; vastly more powerful mage than our character, will all attack you. Probably also Lelianna and Alistair. Also every Templar around.
So we will get smoked. We only defeated Uldred and other demons because we had a strong party with us.
Ironically, you don't need mages or templars for the final mission. I managed to beat the Archdemon. The dwarves and elves are really all you need. Eamon's men are just backup.
+Date Masamune The Archdemon, in my opinion, is perhaps the easiest boss in Dragon Age Origins.
+Linkforlife199 True That... :)
you dont need any of them for the final mission lol i only used the troops as cannon fodder and had them deal with the small fry in the final battle
You don't need any of them. You can beat the archdemon without summoning anybody.
@@astrius4125 what’s more difficult? The Archdemon or Revenants?
Wait a minute, they CUT THIS OUT!? The one cutscene in the game where they acknowledge you're a blood mage, and they removed it!?
Nyrufa Grey Wardens aren't so restricted as most on the whole Blood Magic thing. And anyway, they didn't want to force you to fight these characters, especially Cullen, who has to show up later.
@@helioskitty9328 It also would make the entire trip to the Circle Tower utterly pointless because you are forced to kill both the Templars and Mages in the cut content. Wynne, Gregoire, Cullen, and Irving all turn against you and try to kill you. If you succeed in surviving, you have neither the Mages nor the Templars in your battle against the Blight.
@@anthonymurano9040 yeah? That's why it would be great, you do all the work only to be betrayed by short sited religious opinions, it matches DA very well
@@spacejesus6581 I'm going to play with mods on my 2nd playthrough (still on 1st playthrough and working on awakening xD), this cut content mods is Intriguing...
@@anthonymurano9040 I noticed a Persuasion attempt at the start. Maybe the requirement to succeed as a blood mage requires succeeding one or both of those persuasion checks.
Not surprised this was cut, fairly sure there's a line from the warden in the Wardens Keep dlc that blood magic isn't forbidden for wardens, anything to win against the blight, and everyone accepts it. Plus the joining requires blood magic and though its kept a secret Alistair says its secret because few would join if they knew they would likely die at the joining.
Wynne: *Opens her mouth*
Me: How did I know you would immediately fuck up everything within seconds
I really wish they kept this is, would of been really interesting to see how things would of turned out.
It's pretty ironic sometimes, DA2 is all about hunting blood mages but no shits are given when you drain blood from your own companions.
The only issue with it is that you need a persuasion check of 40 in order to pass this without harm; which would be fairly punishing for Blood Mage players who havent invested points into Cunning or Coercion as they would lose out on a useful companion and an entire additional army for the Attack on Denerim.
it seems as if they couldn't have kept it based on the fact hat you need either the mages ro the templars to help fight the darkspawn at the end.
"its not about power its about sanctity of life" yea so blood magic isnt cool but setting someone on fire or making him explode is ok
It was cut maybe because it was incoherent, as a Grey Warden as far as I know, even if you are blood mage, you can't be apprehended by the chantry.
Why was this cut? I was so annoyed at the fact that no one responded to my characters using blood magic. even in Dragon Age 2 no one cares, I even stuck with the Templar's to see if maybe anyone would notice but ......no -_-
probably so that Cullen doesn't die since he because a more major character in the sequels
JackSpad3s More or less because there own lore states that the chantry has no hold over what a warden does. I mean for most of Awakening if you kept Anders they couldn't do anything because he was a warden.
***** to be fair, Meredith will continuously mention Hawke's magic use during the second one and why she chooses to ultimately ignore it.
JackSpad3s Urm, no? I am feeling you people rather overcomplicate the reasons for this cut. It's actually much simpler - Templars are out to kill you and Irving and the mages don't want anything to do with you, effectively shutting you out from gaining support from either group againts the Blight (one of the main quests). Bioware probably dropped this entire subplot because of time constraints or because they couldn't think of another way of gaining replacement support or its repercussions. Also back then, they were still working on the lore and it was until later when Bioware decided that Grey Wardens have a free pass at using blood magic.
Dexter Dexter
True, but I still want to see a bit of hesitation.
I am split on this scene. On the one hand, it makes some sense for the Templars to take a dim view of Blood Magic and those who use it, especially in the aftermath of Uldred's attempt to take over the Circle.
But on the other hand, as Greagoir himself points out, the Grey Wardens are seen by many as ruthless but with good cause. The Grey Wardens are basically an embodiment of the idea that the ends justify the means. One of the major elements of the Grey Wardens is that, because of their vital role in the war against the Darkspawn, the various conventions of Fereldan society are not applied as strictly to them. The Wardens have welcomed criminals, exiles, and traitors into their ranks over the course of their history because they'll take anyone who can raise sword, bow, or spell against the Darkspawn.
So, in light of that consideration, it's not beyond imagining to consider that the Grey Wardens have PROBABLY recruited apostates and Blood Mages over the course of their history, some of whom probably had a choice of either the Wardens or execution. We can argue that Greagoir, as a Templar, would be blind to this, but we should recall that Greagoir is characterised as a more moderate, even-handed Templar compared to those with more extreme views. While he wouldn't like it, Greagoir's own words in this scene suggest that he would ultimately tolerate a Grey Warden using blood magic because of the greater threat of the Darkspawn.
Ahhh, DA:O - back when magic was actually interesting.
Grimbanks it was good in 2 but 3 did lack in base trees and real specs
What? No. DAO is when Magic was boring and extremely slow, then it got all flashy and fun in DA2, DAI found a good balance, the Knight Enchanter specialization is amazing.
@@MrItsaplane still could have given us a healing spell 😒
Didn't Spirit specializations have healing? I don't remember, either way with how little healing is needed in DAI it would have been a waste of specialization imho@@beverlyarcher3744
that fucking chain lightning spell *glares* and the fucking Curse of Mortality...
I always thought there should have been more consequences for being a blood mage in Dragon Age Origins, so I guess it turns out they did have them but decided to cut them from the main game.
My main "canon" Warden is a blood mage, I would have loved to have this scene in the actual game.
You would have loved to have the templars and the mages go against you instead of recruit them for your cause, after 3 hours of gameplay trying to help them? Wow.
Can't he technically invoke the right of conscription and conscript Gregoir, Irving and Cullen and pull the Grey Warden card? I guess that's why it was cut because it sounds stupid that they'd attack him even though he's the only hope against the Darkspawn.
Robin MX
Wardens can't throw Conscription around wildly nilly. Their right to conscript is given to them by the leaders of the country they reside in. If they recruit unwilling people without a clear need, that right will be taken away. People will ask: Why did you recruit the aging leaders who are needed to lead the Templars/Mages when there are plenty of able-bodied recruits in their prime?
Also, at this point Loghain is still in power, and he has outlawed the Grey Wardens. All those treaties are technically worthless on Fereldan soil. The only reason anyone helps you at all is out of gratitude for solving their problems.
The real issue here is that Gregoir has no right to imprison the player. The Wardens are allowed to use Blood Magic, so long as they keep it behind closed doors and save it for emergencies.
Technically they could, but "Grey Warden" is a title that means nothing at that point in the game, as Loghain has pretty much banished them. So nothing would be stopping them from just declining.
@@Former_Halo_Fan and that explains the whole just once why can't they say sure we will go without extras added to it
This is hilarious to me. Just conscript everyone who disagrees with you. Don't like that I'm a blood mage? Rite of Conscription, the Templars are all Wardens now. Just stroll into the Landsmeet like "rite of conscription, everyone in here is now a warden!" Shopkeeper's prices are too high? Rite of Conscription, you work for me now.
@@saltedbuttercups Yes, but they don't want to do that because forcing Conscription usually pisses people off, and they don't want to rub people the wrong way after being allowed back thanks to King Maric.... Duncan even says this at one point or alludes to it.
if I was a mage for real I would join the grey wardens and then go up to a temlper and do blood magic right in his face and he would just have to stand there and take it because I'm a Warden
There is no such thing as "strong enough" when the entire world is at stake.
I am reminded of Anakin Skywalker, who sought to just be "strong enough" to protect the ones he loved. We know how that turned out.
I really love these kinds of things--that is, bridging gameplay and story, and callbacks to your class, origin, etc. I think both games could've benefited from having more of it, especially the mage class in DAII. And wow is Greagoir's temperament completely different from any Kirkwall templar. He assumes innocence first!
I really miss playing this kind of games where you can choose to walk the darker path.
I like how there are only two Grey Wardens in all of ferelden and it is common knowledge that it takes a Grey Warden to kill the archdemon albeit not why and they try to kill one of the only two knowing full well there's a blight
You can see why it was cut
It says in DAII that the Kirkwall Templars are especially overzealous and suspicious. Also unlike them Greagoir and Irving have a good relationship, so he trusts the First Enchanter's word on such things. Kirkwall was where the rebellions began because that was where the biggest injustice was happening.
Blood magic should be more powerfull, with a spelltree for sumoning diferent demons and such, but to outbalance you random checks from guards and other NPCs, including making enemies with companions as it is forbidden, then it would be awesome!!!
I would not mind killing Wynne if I could get op demons by my side, like you could summon lesser rage hunger and sloth demons, and have as companions, or grater summons Pride and Desire demons.
Sure, and then randomly do a check, and if you fail you're turned into an abomination and the game is over...
pieniaurinko Nope, you just turn abomination if you agree to demon possession, like Connor did to save his dad, and countless others, but yes that should be an option, but not for a game over but to share the body with the demon, and in higher levels take control of the demon with warlock magic.
And yes when the demon control your body he could do shit stuff, but only if you agree to the possession, and in turn get cool powers!
MrFantocan
Right, that's a splendid idea! Go have fun with that, I'll just be over here, with those other nice people, who are definitly *not* templars if that's what you think!
(Wow, never thought I'd say something like that, even with sarcasm mode on..)
I've thought about something like this but I don't think it would be good story or lore wise since you wouldn't be playing your character anymore, since at that point demons would be in control, if that makes sense. I would have loved to see it though in the form of a companion kind of like Morinth in Mass Effect 2.
Sir Gildo Making a pact with a demon is like making a pact with a lawyer, both will try to take all you have, but you can take avantage of the situation, like you give him a chance to enter the real world and he gives you power!
Not all demon pacts end in tragedy or all Blood mages would be Abominations, the Chantry and other fools will say they are the same, lies!
Would be great if we actually could massacre the templars.
Lol you are sick.
Ikr. You've done all their work and now they b*tch instead and that freaking abomination ratted you out. What a nerve!
This is why I hate the Templars they have their heads way too far up their asses. How can you honestly try to arrest someone who willing put there life at risk in order to stop unnecessary bloodshed. So the Warden is a Bloodmage from what i've seen from playing the DA series there are mages just as evil and powerful who don't use blood magic. Blood Magic is no different than holding a sword in the right hands it can be used for good or evil depending on who holds it. Most mages are opposed to using blood magic anyway because of how it can easily attract demons. That's why all hell has broken loose in DA3 because the Templars finally went too far and the Mages have decided they've had enough abuse and want to be free from the Chantry's hypocrisy. Also Wynne is such a snake she's possessed by a fade spirit which makes her an abomination meaning she must be destroyed amazing how she forgot that little important detail. Anders and Morrigan are right what the Chantry knows about justice can fit into shot glass and the Circle Mages have allow themselves to be treated like second class citizens.
if you are born as a mage and you do believe wat the chantry tells you, you probably also believe how mages corrupted the golden City. and if you are born with this, you may actually believe that it is a curse to be a mage. that is what the circle must be thinking. templars would then also just follow their beliefs. and you gotta admit blood magic is a pretty destructive School. forcing people to do stuff and hurting your allies for your own good seems like its pretty reasonable to be forbidden. because you just cannot hope that every blood mage will stay a good person. also blood magic WAS originally thaught by demons. the ancient gods who corrupted the mages of tevinter
Shania Uchiha The only thing that I feel is "evil" about blood magic is that it is invasive and at times violating. But beyond that I agree with Ian that its only as evil as the user.
The darkest version of blood magic's "origin" was from the "Old God" Dumat, So either the Old God/s created this form of magic or it was created by the Maker himself who created the Old Gods.
Shania Uchiha in response to the quote:
"you gotta admit blood magic is a pretty destructive School. forcing people to do stuff and hurting your allies for your own good seems like its pretty reasonable to be forbidden."
If you use the Entrophy school, then you use Death Magic, which feeds on the deaths of others to heal you and give you magic. You can also basically be a necromancer and raise undead servants to fight for you. I played a mage that had all of those abilities. They are normal abilities you get with the normal 'circle mage' selections of abilities w/o any added specialties like blood mage, shapeshifter, or any of the others you can get in DAO or DA Awakenings. No different, IMHO to use someone or something else's death to heal you or restore your mana than it is to use blood magic to drain life from your ally to heal yourself, really. And summoning undead.... do I even have to go there? But it is not a 'forbidden' school of magic. Truly the only reason blood magic is 'forbidden' by the Chantry is because it is the one school of magic the Templars cannot control.
I agree, to a degree with most of the rest of your comment, it is something many would probably feel/believe, given the circumstances put forth in the game and what the Chantry, the primary religion in this world teaches. But many people tend to be 'sheep' to their religious beliefs and will not look at opposing arguments reasonably, because they are too blind to do so. This happens even in our own modern society, which is supposedly advanced, whereas the game takes place in a medieval type of time period where superstations would run rampant.
I also agree with Ian G statement about how the Chantry is full of hypocrisy and the Templars are just as bad. Especially the Chantry though. You have, I assume, seen what Alistar says about the Chantry giving the Templars lyrium, supposedly to be able to use their abilities, but in reality it is a form of control, as lyirum is highly addictive and the Chantry controls all of the legal trade with Orzamar for it. And during the Denerim quests, once you get there to call the Landsmeet, you see what happens to a person who is going through lyrium withdrawals. Pretty scary.
+Houston Davis The Old Gods created it, to stop being dependant of fade magic, or lyrium magic. But....it turned out bad, and cause the blight....
+Raigh Darkhawk It is only as destructive as you want it to be.....you don´t need to drain life of anyone, and it does not force you to anything, you decide.
I love that you managed to dig this up from the cut content. It's very interesting. I especially wonder about the Wardens only having one Mage at a time. This is not so. Or is it?
It isn't, Wynne was refering to there only being one Grey Warden Mage present at Ostagar, namely the character.
The Wardens Employ Many Mages at a time, but they're usually balanced in their assigned groups, more or less because even the Wardens know better than there to be more Mages around than they can handle themselves if push comes to shove.
Cid Alderlaine Ok, I can believe that. though I wonder how Wynne would know about the Grey Warden Mages only being one at a time? Where did you get the info on how the mages are distributed around different Grey Warden groupings?
Scroll
It's shown in various instances that Mages are distributed as fewer than the rest of their assigned groups, most likely as a safety measure in case the Mage becomes a Demon and the other members have to take it down without risking the chance of another Mage in their group turning demon too along with it, though that is assumptious mostly.
One instance is in The DA2's "Legacy"-DLC where one of the Outposts maintainers is a mage, the only mage of the place no less.
On other occassions we see there being almost no mages following any groups like the one in the Deep Roads who takes away Bethany/Carver. (Said Sibling is seen later on in their respective groups again, in Bethany's case; She's the only mage of her group)
But again, Wynne spectulates that there were only one Grey Warden Mage AT OSTAGAR, namely the Protagonist in this case, though there is a Grey Warden Encampment housing an ambigeous number of people, maybe there are more mages there?
Her befuddlement is most likely because you were only there in one night and surely no one masters spells like Blood Magic over the cause of a single day, especially considering all the stuff the Protagonist has to go through on said day prior to engaging the Darkspawn Horde.
In other words, who taught the Protagonist? All the other Warden's died at Ostagar, there's mentioning of "Books containing information only for Grey Wardens" but that still didn't stop the Templar or Wynne from wanting to turn the Grey Warden in :/
Friggin' Circle Loonies...
Cid Alderlaine This makes sense even if it's mostly speculation. :) I like how they talk about the Wardens being able to use strange measures in a time of need. But I also like how they think they can force jurisdiction over a Warden Mage. If a more senior Warden was there, would he have been able to pull rank? I do believe that the Wardens themselves might have different rules and that they see themselves as being - not above everyone else - but an untouchable, neutral force of their own. Would be great if we got to get some lore info about the Grey Wardens codex of honor or rules when it comes to this kind of stuff. They do recruit thiefs and murderers (Duncan was a thief), they do have a history of bloodmages (Soldiers Peak DLC)
I think it relates to the Wardens of Old. at Soldiers Peak their was only one main Warden Mage who conducted all the magical research. since the Wardens were banished from Ferelden after that, most citizens probably dont know that much
Well ... Blood Magic is forbidden by the Chantry, but Grey Wardens kinda take a piss on the Chantry's laws.
Besides the issue is bullshit. Blood Magic is linked to dark stuff sure. But look at the entropy school of magic. That's legal.
There's actually a lot creepier shit in there than Mind control. It's a powerful school of magic. Like with anything powerful you don't want kids toying around with that. You need to be responsible. As in not getting baited by the first demon to offer a deal for instance. A remembering such power comes at a price.
Grey Wardens can wield it because they usually are responsible enough to do so. A common mage though ? Not so much.
its because Blood magic was originally taught by demons to mortals and is also believed to be the cause of the blight in the first place as the magisters who caused it were blood mages
This kind of content should not have been cut from the game. It is most interesting. :P
Not to mention even more story-related incentive to play as a Blood Mage.
+White Raven It makes sense it was cut, since grey wardens are allowed to conscript anyone they want, and to sue every type of magic they need to stop the blight....it would have been stupid if wynne said that.
Dexter Dexter It still would've been interesting if this dialogue was in the game. It's not like I'm saying you should be _forced_ to fight against Greagoir & Irving upon the discovery of your ability to use Blood Magic.
^
If they didn't cut the dialogue, the conversation would've ended with several dialogue options, including reminding them that you're a Grey Warden. Of course Blood Magic would be condoned by the Wardens, as a useful tool.
White Raven
Hm, yes.
IT WAS NOT CUT, THERE ARE MANY VIDEOS OF IT HAPPENING ON RUclips AND IT HAS HAPPENED TO ME, HAVING TO FIGHT THEM AND WYNN.
R3GARnator You sure they weren't using a mod tho? That's the only way it could have happened
I would of loved this if it was in the game but altered. More responses and that you can say that the chantry has no authority over Grey Wardens.
Even so, if the Chantry says it shouldn't be done, it just makes me want to do it all the more. DOWN WITH THE CHANTRY!! DOWN WITH ANDRASTE!! DOWN WITH OPPRESSION!!
I made wynne blood mage lol
Haha, me too in one of my playthrough. I guess you can teach the old dog some new tricks.
Blood Magic is sorely missing in Inquisition. Hope its back for the next.
It kinda makes sense since it's the forbidden art. Wardens can use it because that is basically a way to show that they can do whatever is necessary. It should have been cut from DA 2 too, but DA2 is wierd so who cares.
You can still kinda be a blood mage, build wise. Not in lore or name though
It's so funny Greagor acts like he has jurisdiction over a Grey Warden. A Warden could summon a pride demon to fight darkspawn and he couldn't do a damn thing about that Warden. Templars always like to overreach like the cops they are.
Damn Wynne I just saved all your asses and you're selling me out like this? Shit did not see the Templar Commander right in front of us.
Gregoir seemed more lenient than wynne. What a bitch lol.
lol tevinter uses it all the time I really doubt fighting the darkspawn without knowing a lot about evil magic is a possibility. I think its funny only shamanic magic is considered ok in DAO.
Tevinter is a different country. It does not mean anything that they use it. They also allow slavery. In the real world different countries might forbid something that can be allowed in other ones as well. Most of the countries consider bm to be evil and practicing it carries the death penalty. And no magic is "ok" in origins unless it's regulated by the circle and the chantry.
They don't even have the right to say anything against a grey warden, because they have special rights. They can use any form of power if it's used to fight against the blight and the dark spawn.
+Repaim doesn't care about last names. that's why it was cut
Magic is just a tool just like any sword or shield. Only the religious and fools put spiritual values on tools and their uses.
Errantus There's a difference between putting spiritual value on a tool and putting magical value in a spirit... Blood mages by necessity consort with demons. Allowing more people to try will result in more abominations, and Blood Mages themselves are also more susceptible to becoming abominations. Plus, the sort of person who would put a demon in a situation where it would feel it wise to offer Blood Magic training is probably not a person you want on your side, in most cases, doubly so considering they can control minds. That's not flashy, and it's useless against darkspawn, but it's very effective against, say, the Circle itself. Overall, it's just too risky. That's the whole reason for the Templars and their constriction of the mages, really; because the templars are much better-equipped to defeat Blood Mages and abominations than the magi would be on their own.
Oh, but don't worry, you're not alone. Most people in Tevinter would agree with your stance.
@@helioskitty9328 There is no true difference between spirits and demons. They're both influenced by mortal thoughts and perceptions. In the way you appear to be putting it, that would make spirit healers who call upon spirits of compassion no better than blood mages.
Though, I will agree. On the using an innocent to learn blood magic bit. That is unpleasant to say the least.
Gregor is kind of stupid, why would you kill the only warden who can save this and The wardens can use blood magic if there is no another choice! And Gregor has no right to judge if he uses bloood magic just for the fact that he is a grey warden
Not to mention, is it really a smart thing to pick a fight with the dude who just cleared the entire tower? The same tower that you wanted reinforcements to even enter?
This is probably why it was cut
It would’ve been interesting to actually get the option to turn yourself in, similar to how you can surrender to Ser Cauthrien. And then convince the grand cleric to pardon you or having to break out.
Wynne is such a traitor here you wish you could use her blood magic ritual.
If this had happened I would be simultaneously thrilled by the twist and pissed off about having to start from a safe save and going through the damn fade again lol
Wow didn't know this existed, it's pretty cool. I decided to play as a blood mage in fact, in my last playthrough. Experiencing this would have been something else. Thank you for sharing
This there can be only one mage warden is soooo b*lshit. You can make Bethany join in DA2 while mage hero of ferelden lives. Also you can make Anders and Valenna gray wardens as a mage warden during awakening.
Akula Doktor There's a reason the content was cut. They were still working out the lore at the time. Grey Wardens actually also have pass to use Blood Magic in canon, too; they just hadn't figured these bits all out yet.
it would be cool, if there was more option then one, like liying to them and if your manipoulation is great enough you can convice them that its not blood mage or something like that. hope some day there will be a directors cut edition instead of a remaster haha
Interesting, but hardly jives with the whole "Wardens do as they must" mantra the rest of the game preaches, and that the Chantry has no jurisdiction over the Wardens has a whole.
Not to mention this would make me off Wynne. Snitches get stitches and all that.
And she would've totally deserved it, too. So much for gratitude. You save the Circle and are the only hope for Ferelden to survive, and yet she totally sells you out and dooms you to life imprisonment or death for doing the morally right thing.
I love this, but... Gregoir doesn't have any authority whatsoever over a Grey Warden, Mage or not. The Grey Wardens are outside of Templar jurisdiction.
Duncan can literally use his Grey Warden authority to conscript ANYONE, including if they don't want to go, or if the Circle doesn't want to free them. He can conscript people who are in line for execution, too. A Grey Warden is way above a Circle's Templar commander.
Anyone think BioWare cut this because they were afraid people would get frustrated and review bomb the game if they could recruit neither the mages nor the templar after spending 5 hours fighting through the fade?
I mean that's there own fault for doing something they know is highly illegal
This coming from an abomination xD
you'd think she of all people would know better. she's proof that it's not so black and white. she's got a spirit inside her yet she's not evil and the spirit doesn't force her to do anything bad. the warden uses blood magic to help people and only harms criminals, it's like where that brain at.
It's funny because I used to loved Wynne in my first playthrough, when I was a Cousland who was nice and played by the rules. Then when i played as a more rebellious blood mage, and questioned more Wynne's views, I saw just how much a hypocrite she is and how hostile she can be when you don't agree with her. Kinda lost all her "kind" grandmotherly appeal after that. Love how multidimensional the characters were back in DA:O.
I understand why it was cut, but this is very cool. I wonder if there would have been an “appeal to the Grand Cleric” section that you could have done to resolve this peacefully.
Wow, that makes MUCH more sense than the story left in the game
It actually does not. How is it makes more sense? You save the mages and the templars, but since your methods were questionable, now you have to kill them all? It's just dumb. Not to mention one of your would be companion turns on you for a specialization? Stupid. This would mean that if you play as a bm(the 2nd best spec) you have to kill the templars, the mages and wynne. This way nobody would want to play as a bm. So much for "whatever it takes to defeat the darkspawn"... Not to mention it's not a clear choice the first time, but a complete surprise. So you basically have to reload your game back where you were not a bm, to avoid this nonsense.
That outfit looks familiar... it looks like a professional monster slayer
I see. When i played the game on Save the Circle, there was a glitch on that conversation. Damn now i know.
The main character is implied to have had a clean harrowing and the will to be a grey warden, handle blood magic etc.
1:18 Only one mage warden at any one time? Reminds me of Vivienne telling the Dalish Inquisitor about Dalish clans exiling mages if there are too many (more than 3). Bioware likes having the traditionalists (Wynne, Vivienne) give world-building trivia.
This is from an earlier stage of lore, by the time Orgins was released they decided there was one mage from each circle in the wardens.
Wow, I had no idea this was in the game. Fascinating, thanks for sharing! I can understand why they would cut it though, it would cause a good deal of trouble in the Circle questline... Also, there's only one mage Warden at any time? When was this decided? I could've sworn I've seen other mage Wardens throughout the games... Seems rather silly of a rule to not allow more than one mage Warden at a time when the Wardens are completely fine with demanding help from the mages via old treaties in times of Blight.
I believe that was retconned. The guy preparing Duncan's room during the mage origin story mentions it, but that's about it. That doesn't come up ever again during the game and you can even recruit 2 aditional mages in Awakening. No clue if it gets brought up again in DA 2 or Inquistion. I haven't played those two.
@@shipu302 Ah I see, thanks for the infor!
Blood magic can be used for good or evil.
The point is it's never worth the price...
I kinda missed not having the origin prologues in the sequels
I really wish blood magic was in Inquisition, though I hear where a Warden gets a pass because everyone agrees the ends justify the means during a blight for Wardens. Though I can only imagine how much harder a time Josephene would have if you were one. Mortalitasi methods are more accepted and yet she'd have to bury a LOT of that.
What happens next? Do you kill them? Who helps in your fight against the archdemon?
My Wynne is a blood mage too хD
Don’t grey wardens exist outside of the chantries laws? Wouldn’t the Templars have no right to even attack them?
The gall! The Grey Wardens are excempt from the Chantry's laws, for a good reason no less, so frankly those Templars are doing what all of them do (yes: I am pro-mage and think they should be allowed to govern themselves, they can after all do harrowings themselves should they see the need): Persecute mages because they can -.-
Would've been awesome if you could summon low tier demons such as 2 Shades or 1 greater rage demon. Blood magic was kinda disappointing imo, all the stigma & fear of it didn't live up to the hype in the skill tree. It's hilarious at how you save the circle and then Wynn decides to snitch on you being a blood mage to Gregoire & Irving meanwhile she's an abomination except she has control.
Wynn has some dialogue reacting to your blood magic, but it's in party camp only as far as i know
"There is only ever one Grey Warden mage at a time" - lol, bollocks. Guess they went back on that
Also, I know this is cut content but does this mean you will get neither Mages nor Templars to help you? I mean, if you kill Gregoir and Irving, there's not really anyone alive to help :P
actually you think about it other tha bethany that would be true for the warden
colt grisham
No, it would not, you just need to think about it a bit. In Dragon Age: Awakening, the expansion to Origins, the Warden Commander (i.e. you) can recruit both Anders and Velanna, both are mages. Also, if the player is a mage themselves, the wardens will have not two but three mages at the same time. This rule is something they created for Origins and then scrapped, which might be part of the reason this content was cut.
besides, at the siege of Adamant there were legions of blood mages under the control of the Venatori
It was probably Ferelden thing. They were banned for a long time and only recently started rebuilding the order. New ruler might have recalled that restriction, being Grey Warden puppet and all.
Celestia
Imagine an outcome where you rally your fellow blood mages, clear the tower of both Demons and Templars, and then they join your army. Hell, maybe the Blood Mages could even combine their powers to bind some of the demons, so you can go into the final battle with a badass demon army.
Something like that would be awesome. Of course, there would have to be dire consequences in the epilogue slides, like there were with the Golems and Werewolves.
It is possible this was cit simply because they didn't think the templars allying with you at the end would make sense after you killed these people
Odd conversation though, is there only one option as answer throughout this conversation? Imagine an intimidate check here... ''[Intimidate] You dare challenge a blood mage?!'' That would be fun, wish being a blood mage would have people ask questions a bit more. I get why they cut this because of warden immunity but I think the conversation shouldve been in there, really adds to the blood magic dilemma. *** minor spoiler *** But with this being cut it was always awkward to me that Wynne INSTANTLY leaves your group if you defile the ashes, BUT casting blood magic next to her face throughout the game is no problem?
Defile the ash have nothing to do with Warden immunity
Indeed it doesnt, what makes you say that though?
I am answering your question...the reason why it is okay to use Blood Magic is because the Warden immunity, but to dfile the ash have nothing to do with it, that's why Wynne and Leliana left or attack you
So you're saying that the highly emotional and ethically based Wynne accepts blood magic usage because of Warden immunity? I find that unlikely. This is just where DA:O lacks a little bit, because this reaction by Wynne is a bit out of nowhere, yet not even a comment is made on your blood magic. There is a big difference between ACCEPTING blood magic, because of warden immunity, and rightout ignoring it, the latter which we see in-game.
Warden immunity never being properly addressed in the game, they should make it a clear cut what the Wardens are allowed and not allowed to do during The Blight. We just assume what we can do throughout the game, our mentor is dead anyway, and Alistair only recruited for 6 month. They established that the Warden can do drastic measure during The Blight, but that is only when Duncan did it. Grand Cleric don't want to release Sten even when we invoke the Right of Conscription for example.
Ironically, usage of blood magic actually has a side effect of slightly numbing the connection to the fade according to the lore. The primary that blood mages tend to be somewhat more susceptible to possession is because the primary source of learning IS demons unless you're from Tevinter.
I'm sorry, but the conversation should have ended at "I'm a Grey Warden." The Templar have no, and I mean NO, jurisdiction over the Grey Warden Mages, especially during a Blight, beyond what the Grey Wardens allow.
Shock of shocks, the fantasy cops are overreaching and abusing their authority. Truly art imitates life.
Ohh Warden is wearing Geralt armor from Witcher 1 ;)
What? I'm a god damn Warden
well now I need to know what happened at the end of the fight
Glad they cut this out. Sad they didn't include a finished version of this.
Not as bad as how everyone ignores you being a mage, let al one a blood mage in DA 2 but still. x'D
I had always wondered why no one would ever comment on the party’s use of blood magic if it was such a reviled practice.
Literally every Warden ever has practiced Blood Magic. The Joining is a sacrilegious Blood Magic ritual that effectively turns people into darkspawn.
In my playthrough Wynne was a blood mage
I always found this subject interesting in DA, mages are dangerous and blood magic is basically selling your soul but their world is filled with so much evil shit any ways, why not have mages hunt monsters, its a win win, mages will probably end up dead and monster population drops, especially during the blight.
mrsanatra1 blood magic isn't selling your soul. a mage can tap into the power of blood without a demon's aid. The chantry says it's evil because it can lead to a mage dealing with demons, but in all honesty that's no different from a mages normal life. constantly fighting the temptation to succumb to "true power".
mrsanatra1 but you are correct on the matter with the beasts that would make far more sense. especially since mages are more likely to come out alive.
I always denied being a blood mage, Wynne is too useful for her healing magic to kill her, besides blood magic is fun and a tad OP
Well I know what my next play through is going to be like.
Ngl I hate that this was cut
Also seeing that they're saying that grey wardens have their own spells I wonder if DAD will introduce a warden spell spec I wouldnt mind that all especially if we have a companion whose a GW NOT like boring blackwall
hehe blood magic = life
The hate on mages in Dragon Age franchise is the reason why i made my Warden Commander, Champion, and Inquisitor mages... i simply love how the very thing they hated is the one that saves their asses... best part is to make them blood mages :D
its a mod, i believe. without mods, there is only one incident where you can interact with blood magic specialization in dialogue, which is in dragon age: awakening if you make anders a blood mage, you can bring up the fact he's a blood mage after he explains that the templars would have executed him for being a maleficar because he was an apostate.
@melchCody Then it's bugged. At the very least, you need a mod to get this installed. I heard this was removed because if you admit to being a blood mage and win the fight, you'll be killing the leader of the Mages and Templars, and you'd be short one army at endgame.
I can understand why this was cut. If someone decided to use blood magic all of a sudden the circle and the templars fight you and you are left with only 3 armies instead of 4.
I'm laughing tho, Wynne says that there was only one mage in the wardens at the time, like do they not know that wardens have a fuck ton of every class of person because the blight needs to be handled by every capable person on deck, and whether or not they're a mage doesn't factor in. Dying at Wynne trying to add rules of the grey wardens
technically you never do see another grey warden mage
@@wolves600 Avernus from Warden's Keep DLC is a grey warden and a blood mage.
wtf i played this game 30 to 40 time never got this reaction that what make you love this rpg this is a great genre
It's cut content.
And he kills them all....
Jowan rekt them... I dont know what they wanted to achieve against his stronger friend
The witcher 1 armor..... Nice
Damnit he is such a pain but I still love him damnit Cullen plus why does Cullen and Alistair have to sound so close to each other when their arguing WHY? Wait what one mage warden at a time? Shit does that mean we broke a law? WYNNE YOU ARE NOW MY LEAST FAVORITE PARTY MEMBER AND THATS SAYING SOMETHING AS I HATE VIVIENNE AND VARRIC
If this were in the game, then you wouldn't be able to recruit an army of mages or Templars, so the entire level would have been completely pointless.