2012 Honda Pilot VTM 4
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- Опубликовано: 26 май 2020
- We're going old school today with the 2012 Honda Pilot. We tested the VTM-4 system of the 2012 to compare it to the 2020 version on the Ridgeline.
Engine Adventures strives to explore and test the AWD and 4WD systems of all crossovers, SUVs, and pickup trucks. To do this we test vehicles in real world environments in a way that allows viewers to cross shop and explore any vehicle they may be interested in learning about. 
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Very nice review. I just bought a 2013 EX-L and I was looking for a video on what this can and cannot do. This is perfect. I'm not using it for 4x4 stuff, just getting to the snow. Great job!
It's a great vehicle in the snow, more controlled than my 4wd truck.
Damn Man U r bringing every car I want to see off road. Subscribed to you brother. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for watching and for the sub! I've got enough vehicles lined up for at least few months worth of videos, might have to start doing more mid-week posts to keep up.
I feel like some off road tires and a little air down would’ve made a huge difference climbing that incline.
While for general offroading better tires and airing down make a big difference, they wouldn't have helped in this test. The engine and gearing don't get enough torque to the wheels to climb steep grades while lifting a wheel, or even just climb really steep grades.
@@EngineAdventures you think some porting to the im and runners as well as a j37 tb upgrade would help torque?
I'm sure it would help, I don't know by how much. It really needs lower gearing or a 2-speed transfercase.
Pull abs fuse offroad... comes alive.. roasts all 4
I'll have to try that sometime, I honestly feel like this pilot either wasn't treated right (I bought it used) or has an issue from the factory. It seems underpowered.
2nd gen looks so badass. they stylized 3rd gen to fit the entire new Honda aesthetics, all of which I dislike especially the pilot.
Thanks, we actually chose the second gen because of its higher ground clearance. For us it doesn't need to be a super capable offroader, just something that can drive in all weather and somewhat maintained dirt roads. So far we've really enjoyed it!
I’ve been looking for a video of this vehicle off-road. Great review. The system is very capable. That hill must have been very steep
It's nearly a 70% grade at it's steepest point. Thanks for watching!
Awesome review. Awesome work. The video was well put. 🤝🏼💥💯
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Best looking pilot !
I agree looks like a little tank💪
I love my Pilot and this makes me feel better about my investment. We are moving to New England in a few years, so the need for an AWD was a must beforehand.
Ours has been through a few blizzards and we've never worried about traction, granted most of our snow is powder at higher elevations and gets plowed and salted where the population centers are.
This video taught me everything i needed to know about the 4wd on my new to me Pilot. Might help in a pinch, but i wont be going offroad on purpose.
Thanks for watching! I hope your pilot treats you well!
I find it hard to believe that you were throttling all the way.I will still like 👍 and sub, because of the 🐕!!
Thanks for the sub! This hill is steeper than it looks on video.
Great review
Thanks for the support!
Thank you for making this video. My parents used to have this car when we live in Qatar. My mom used it for taking my siblings and I to school. Bought it since 2011 and sold it in 2020. Didn't get a chance to say good-bye because I was studying abroad 🥲. Dad drove it once on sand dunes, the key was to lower the tyre pressure and keep the momentum going. I don't think VTM 4 was used at all 😅
Thanks for watching and commenting, one of my goals is to get more vehicles to the sand dunes. If this were my full time job I would go way more!
I bought a 2012 Pilot EX-L in February. Just got it back from the shop after nailing a deer the end of July.
Great purchase, sorry to hear about the deer. I hope the shop did a good job on the repair!
I use a 12 volt fuel pump for model airplane. There avaliable on amazon for $20. Then you can get clear tubing a a home center. I use this setup for the rear diff and the transmision fluid.
Great idea, thanks for sharing!
Is weird because this pilot looks a lot rugged than the new generation 2016+ and looks like it would do a lot better off road but the new one actually does a lot better, and also is funny how the new one looks a lot sporty but has a hidden exhaust tip and this generation of pilot 2009-2015 has a nice dual exhaust 😅😅
This one really lacks torque. I did test a newer one (don't think I did a video on it but it was a 2019) and the CVT was overwhelmed pretty quick. I tested that one before I started doing the same set of test hills this one is on, so I don't have a direct comparison.
This makes me want to sell my pilot, and we just bought it yesterday.
My wife loves our pilot, it's just not a rough offroader. It performs very well in the snow, and is easy for her to drive and park anywhere.
My old avalon could go up this, just need to send it and stop letting off
If you know how to drive it the pilot is great
I appreciate the input, but you're wrong. No vehicle I've tested had made this in 2wd. There is nowhere to get a run at this hill and I did go full throttle from the bottom and still couldn't make it. The Pilot is a great vehicle, but the crawl ratio is awful at 11.6:1. That's possibly the worst of any vehicle I've tested.
Can you do more older vehicle reviews?
Anything in particular you're interested in? If I can find someone who will let me put the vehicle through this test then I'll gladly shoot the video.
I noticed that 2nd gear won't spin the tires if I hold it to the floor. 1st gear however is a very different story. I wonder if you played with that at all on your test
It really struggled in 1st gear, and would have had a harder time in 2nd. I think I did try second a couple of times, but it couldn't go up the hill at all in 2nd.
So what’s the difference between 1st and 2nd gear when it comes to off roading and snow?
That depends on the situation. Sometimes it's a good idea to start out in 2nd gear on snow to reduce the chance of the wheels slipping when starting out. On this particular vehicle, it only has a 5 speed transmission that is geared very high so starting in first isn't really a problem.
Súper awesome outstanding video. Thank you so much for sharing
Thanks for the support!
Why can't it make it? Is it the power or the electronics are doing something weird that doesn't send the power to the wheels? I've driven a 2011 Subaru Legacy for Uber that could climb muddy snow filled hills with 4 passengers easily and I'm currently looking to get a Pilot for Uber XL. Anyway I appreciate the video and it does a very good job demonstrating a lot of the things I had questions about.
This pilot has over 100k miles on it and just doesn't have low enough gearing to make the climb. The newer pilots have 9 speed transmissions and similar AWD systems that should make this climb. Check out my video on the Ridgeline as that's he closest thing I have to the newer pilot
Pilot 4wd does it engage automatically? When you press the VTM-4 bottom does it display on dash screen. I got a 2011 pilot when I engage the VTM the light shows on the bottom only is that okay without displaying on dash screen light 4runner does
Yes it engages automatically when wheel slip is detected. Also, if you are in 1,2 or R on the shift lever you can manually engage VTM-4 by pushing the button. I will have to check but if I remember right, only the light on the button is illuminated, nothing on the dash.
Please what is the purpose of the oil change underneath?
For the 1st and 2nd gen pilots and ridgelines have a single clutch that will engage or disengage power to the rear diff. For normal use that fluid should be changed about every 15,000 miles. When used often or in particularly hard situations the fluid may need changed sooner. After the offroad testing the rear differential was making a little bit of noise, so I changed the fluid. The old fluid looked clean, but the noise went away after the change.
@@EngineAdventures Thanks
So only way to turn that 4wd button on is to put it on 1 first?
It has to be 1, 2, or reverse. Outside of that the system activates automatically as needed.
Did u do 1st gear awd
1sr gear with VTM-4 lock on
If I haven't engaged the VTM-4 in my 2013 Pilot, ever, and the car has 140K; would you recommend I still replace the VTM-4 fluid? Thank you!
It's probably a good idea to change it. However, mine only had a few thousand miles on it when I changed, but it was making a little noise. It had been used in snowy weather and the offroad testing + a little extra offroading, which was pretty hard on the system. The noise went away after I changed it.
@@EngineAdventures I changed the differential fluid yesterday. The drained fluid appeared ok; I'm thinking I should've left it alone, since I never engaged the VTM-4 on the truck, but it's done now. The drain bolt magnet had a minute amount of black on it..
Then the serendipity kicked in: I decided to fill the air in the spare tire that I had removed to get to the fill and drain bolts. The mfg-recommended pressure is 60 psi. The tire only held 3. Very glad I checked it, which I wouldn't have done otherwise.
They say that the oil goes bad over time too. So ven if it doesn't get used much, or at all, it's good to switch it out every once in a while Good to hear you got the spare tire taken care of. You can actually fit a full size spare down there too if you want. I have an extra tire for mine, but haven't gotten the correct wheel for it yet.
Interesting, I have a 2011 and use it also when hunting. I dont know if there is a difference between the 2011 and 2012 but can make it easily on similar grade slop using the VTM4. In some instance I may have to disengage the torque transfer due to the engine having not enough power to turn the wheels. On the 2011, with VTM4 engage, the 2 rear wheels will spin if torque transfer is disengage. In one instance, park in the snow for 3,4 days, we ad mild weather then refreezing, all 4 wheels stuck in ice. Try to move the Pilot but wheels would not turn even with VTM4 engage. Got out with VTM4 engage + torque transfer disengage. Although not a true 4 wheeler it is the next best thing.
The video makes things appear less steep than they are. At the steepest point this hill is around a 40% grade. I tried with with traction control on and off and wasn't able to make it either way.
So.. for 4x4 offroad... is it better a Subaru XV/Crosstrek... ???
I haven't tested the Crosstrek yet, but similar in capability to the outback with a completely different AWD system.
Should have done the climb in 2nd with lock
2nd gear gives less torque, and I was in 1st with the VTM-4 lock engaged.
you should've try it with off road tires
While having the right tire for the conditions is very important, these tests are more about the ability of the vehicle to get power to the wheels with traction than it is about the tires. If all 4 wheels are slipping at roughly the same speed then I'd say it was the tires.
I have climbed steeper than this in mine. Cooper AT3 4S tires. BFG would be even better. Street tires will keep you at home.
Maybe, but not by much. Honda said that the Pilot could start from a stop up grades of about 45% (I don't remember the exact number now but it was close to that). This hill is around 41% slope.
Yes tires can make a huge difference, they wouldn't have done anything here. There isn't enough torque to move the wheels, none of the wheels were spinning.
So how would it be as a snow vehicle?
It does great in the snow. The skinny tires bite into the ice and the AWD system works well. It just struggles on really steep climbs.
Winnipegger here. My 2012 is almost unstoppable on our unplowed glazed snowy streets with studded Nokia’s Haks
My 2006 had made it up worse and I run Michelin LTX MS2 tires! How can this be?
The camera doesn't do the steepness of this hill justice. The hill is close to a 20° slope, some vehicles I have say it's more than that. When new and with no cargo, the 2nd gen pilot is rated to move from a stop up a 28-degree slope. This one has over 100,000 miles on it and had a small amount of cargo in the back. I expected it to be able to make the climb on the easy line, but I guess it just wasn't making enough power that day to do it. Also keep in mind that this is just below 5,000 feet in elevation, so there is quite a bit of power loss there when compared to sea level.
How much is the top speed on 4x4
I believe it is 18 mph with it fully locked. Above that it will engage as slip is detected.
Maybe is more capable with better all terrain tires I have 2015 AWD Pilot in Mexico
Good tires always help, but there just wasn't enough torque for it to climb this hill. None of the wheels were spinning but it still couldn't climb the hill!
Just put the car in 2nd gear and the Vtm-4 will stay on till you turn it off
Yup, I talk about that in the video. The clutches still slip with VTM-4 lock on, but they are probably a bit worn since the vehicle has over 100,000 miles on it.
Ya that's wierd my pilot has no issues with that hill??
You've driven this same hill in a 2nd gen pilot?
How fast can you go on 4wd on?
VTM-4 lock will disengage above 18 mph, but the AWD system will engage as needed above that (when the front wheels slip it will send power to the rear wheels).
@@EngineAdventures so, can I turn on the 4wd when the car is running? Or do I have to stop, and If i do not need it anymore, do I have to stop to turn it off? I really apreciate your answer, thanks
@@joseg7296 for the VTM-4 lock you have to have the transmission set to 1,2 or R and be traveling under 18 mph. It can be done from a stop or while the vehicle is on motion.
@@EngineAdventures perfect, thanks for your time
@@EngineAdventures so for the best off-roading capabilities on this vehicle “ I have to have vtm4 active and traction control on ? Also where do apply traction control button at I have the 07 model awd
I'm kinda in the camp the this gentleman is not very familiar with driving off road. Some the lines he's taking are trash. Maybe he's just trying to show limitations, but I've been in rougher stuff in my 09 touring and it handled it fine.
It's steeper than it looks on camera, and it couldn't climb even with all 4 wheels on the ground. The hard line lifts two wheels at a time. The only other option was momentum, but the entrance to the hill had a very steep approach angle which prevents that. Not sure what you could have done differently.
Maybe some off-road tires would be better
Even when the wheels weren't slipping it couldn't make the climb. Offroad tires are certainly better for offroading, but the shortcomings of the system are there no matter what tires you have.
Sorry bud, but when the VTM-4 actually locks, it locks the rear axle solid straight across from left to right. There is a warning on the sun visor not to perform a turn on dry pavement when in real VTM-4 lock. It’s a different set up. The rear end locks individually left and right have their own locking electronic clutch pack for each side locking individually when needed when under normal driving. The rear end is built by Borg and Warner.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
It's a clutch based system that doesn't fully lock. If you look at 4:19 you can see one rear wheel spinning while the other one is stationary. This is with VTM-4 lock engaged. The clutches don't apply enough force to fully lock the wheels together. Ideally when the VTM-4 Lock is engaged it will lock those clutches tight, just doesn't work that way in reality.
I should have clarified that the brake based traction system is being used on the front wheels to transfer power side to side, not on the rear.
@@EngineAdventures Wow, that is crazy, I thought they were actually locked together 💯. When I had mine, it seemed to have a good positive lock. But mine was a 2006 model. I wonder if they allowed some slippage in the 2012 model. Interesting.
@@PeterBranco I'm not sure about the older one, this hill is steeper than it looks though, the 2018 outback couldn't make the hard line either. I've also tested a newer Ridgeline on this course and it did much better.
It's not a rear dif locker unfortunately. All the VTM4 does is, allows the rear end to get 50% of the available engine torque. That may all go to one tire (the one with less traction unfortunately...locking rear end would certainly make this honda wayyy more capable.
The clutch based rear end does act like a limited slip of sorts. While it doesn't lock, it can transfer quite a bit of power to the wheel with traction.
Thanks..this Is a 4WD not a 4*4
It could be considered AWD as well.
This guy doesn’t know how to 4 wheel…. There is enough torque in that Honda….. you got to know how to drive it. I drive mine off-road all the time with no problems and I go on very serious trails where Toyota’s and Jeep’s get stuck and I have to pull them out all the time
How do I get more torque than by having the throttle wide open? This hill is steeper than it appears at around 20-23 degrees or 36-42 %grade. Honda claims the 2nd gen pilot can do up do 48% grade on pavement when new, if I remember correctly.
So in all tests you left the traction control on?
I don't remember if I put this in the final edit or not, but when turning off traction control it also disabled the brake based limited slip. This made the front wheel without traction spin at high RPM creating a very high risk of damage, and a detriment to climbing the hill.
I feel like this guy its not even trying 😕
The Pilot makes it seem that way. I even backed down the hill and gave it full throttle...couldn't make it.
Ходы подвески маленькие.
Kudos to the video but look at the view of the mountains sheesh . It look like a computer screen saver in the background
Thanks! Utah is a beautiful place, and you get great views just about everywhere.
Pilots are not good for hill climbing. I trying doing once,I had to reverse all the way down and came back with speed,before it climbed.
I feel like mine might be underpowered for some reason, but it does make me feel better that I'm not the only one.
@@EngineAdventures It's just a lazy and not suitable climber. I'm using that in Africa. Been using Toyotas,they are all good. But this Honda is not a climber. On smooth paved roods,yes, but unpaved roads , it's a no!
You just don't know how to drive and need better tires the one on there look like touring tires. I've done trails that are more demanding then what you showed.
I once read about the pilot being able to move from a start on grades up to 46% when brand new. This hill is close to that at its steepest, the camera doesn't show it very well. Tires wouldn't have helped much as it just doesn't have enough torque to even move up something this steep.
Is the dog still alive 🤔☠ 🐕☠
Yup, he's 8 years old, and I think he's been one or two videos since I filmed this one.
Have you ever heard flor it , i got a front wheel drive that eats that easy hill, you to scientific ; drive it like a man!
The entrance to the hill stops you from carrying speed unless you want body damage. From there it's steep enough that I've never had a vehicle in 2wd be able to move more than a few inches up the hill before full on spinning its tires. I've tested over a hundred vehicles on this hill and can say with confidence your FWD won't make it. Check out my other videos on other vehicles for a better idea.
Amigo que tonto eres al pensar que pensabas subir esa pequeña montaña de tierra, hay un error primordial que no te hace subir, traes las llantas super infladas cuando en realidad deben traer 32 libras, el vehículo sube fácil trayendo las libras adecuadas del vehículo ni más y no menos, si hubieras traído 32 libras esa pequeño cerro los subes sin la 4vt
no fue una cuestión de presión de las llantas. Tenia bastante traccion, no tenia suficient torque para subir, expecialmente cuando dos llantas estaban sin traccion porque estaban en el aire. Creo que los neumaticos tenian cerca 35 libras, lo cual es recomendado por Honda.
Volví a ver el vídeo insisto abría que bajarlo a unos 25 libras no a 32, y cuando entres a la arena suelta hasta 20 libras
@@chikistrosodann6857
eso es cierto cuando en el lodo, arena o nieve. He bajado a 8 libras en el pasado dependiente en los condiciones. En esta colina todavía no habría hecho la subida. Este vehículo no tiene suficiente torque.
i disagree about lasting for ever.
Full throttle my ass dude
I've had other vehicles in the hundred+ that I've tested really struggle and some fail to make this climb. It's steeper than it looks on camera, but the longer I have had the pilot the more I feel it has a power issue. About 5 months ago I had to go almost full throttle to back over a dirt mound roughly 6" tall on a 10ish% grade. Something I would expect it to do much more easily.
@@EngineAdventures I have the same exact model you don't know how to throttle on a hill climb. I could get up that no problem. You are on the grade completely stopped big difference
In these tests I go hardest to easiest. Stopping completely and going slow is harder than carrying momentum. The base of the hill also has a large dip that prevents a running start at the hill. Near the end I went full throttle on the easier line and still wasn't able to make it. I'm not trying to offend anyone, the pilot is a great vehicle, just not built for off pavement travel. It's much like a Subaru, great all weather traction, not great off road.
The Outback I tested also failed to make the hard line on this climb, and barely made the easy line (CVT nearly overheated).
I've put nearly 100 vehicles over this test hill, but I do make mistakes sometimes. I'd love to take another pilot on this hill to see if mine has power issues.
I have a 2007 Pilot. First gear is way too tall. The gear ratios could be better, even for road driving.
Be careful when driving in snow and disabling VSA with the VTM locked. Power will be sent to both rear wheels concurrently and if you're on a slippery surface the rear can easily kick out quickly. Almost put me in the ditch once.
Yeah, I actually like that with the Pilot, I can drift it around in the snow a little bit, haha.
@@EngineAdventures Find a big snow covered area, like an empty parking lot. Lock VTM and disable VSA. Crank the wheels and floor it. Do the same in reverse - lots of fun.
Restailing looks awful. I can't understand why you bought it??
Styling is near the bottom of my list when looking at buying a vehicle. Mostly got this one because it's what my wife wanted, haha!