i'll respectfully disagree. i did hot/cold for years. no more of that for me. hot/cold has issues, one of them is moisture on the crank after its been frozen. 2nd is safety of hot things, 3rd is control. ... I had the issue plenty of times where I lost the heat differential and the crank / case got stuck halfway. then you have to press it anyway putting lateral forces somewhere. 4th issue is time... hot cold requires you to be adept and fast at putting the pieces together. if you are too slow, or don't have things set up just right, you lose your heat ... plus another time factor is the time it takes to put the crank in the freezer and cool it down. 5th issue is sealants. when you heat things up and cool things down sealants may or may not work ideally at those temperatures. I use 1184 on my crankcases, so if I use my crank tools at room temp I don't worry. I've had plenty of guys that have done hot/cold for YEARS try my crank tools, and get hooked. no more waiting, no safety issues, total control, completely safe for bearings and parts. thanks for the comment though!
Put my new ms 660 crankcase halves together, using the hot/cold method. Put the crank in the freezer at 11:20 and put the PTO case half in a previous heated 250 degree oven a few minutes later. At 11:30 I pushed the crank into the bearings and seals of the PTO side. I used a small piece of folded up thick business card to set the clearance - just as you did. I then cleaned the gasket surfaces with break clean and put a light coat of TB 1184 on gasket mating surfaces of both halves. I the put the crank and the PTO side in the freezer and the flywheel side in the preheated oven. After 10 minutes, I pushed the crank into the flywheel side. I had to hit the case a few times with my hand but everything went down, slicker than snot. I then coated the 6 engine bolts with 1184 and screwed them down to clamp the two sides together. I had the cases supported by 2 short pieces of 2 by 6 with a gap between to allow the protruding crank to clear my shop table. I was finished at exactly 12:03, so it took me 43 minutes to do it all and this time included cleaning the 1184 off my fingers. I have sine put the rear handle and the AV buffers on the saw. Yes, saw, because no one would now confuse it for something else.
done it that way plenty of times John. ... had things go wrong enough now that I will never do that again. the tools have much more control and are completely safe make sure you vac test the saw if you've pushed the crank through a bearing AND seal ... of the seal puckered at all, the spring pops out and you won't know it until you vac test it. otherwise, enjoy the 660 ... its fun :)
I just got finished with Hurricane Irma. Woke up this morning needing a chainsaw. Started out comparing prices at the box stores/smaller stores. After hours and hours I end up here watching this video. It's unreal how much you learn in a couple of hours. I just started the vid. (yes I have been watching the others) I hope by the end, I can feel confident enough to try this. Nope, it want solve my immediate need for a chainsaw, but looks to be a fun project.
JAWS1376 hey. ....great! At least you are learning!! In an emergency. ...no shame in buying a saw. But for the next one....you'll be better prepared. Take saws apart!! Just as much to learn there. Happy to have you along for the ride here!
I think the farmertec msb660 kit is a good one. There are issues, as you state, and you will need a lot of German DNA to figure out things and a pretty good set of tools. I have both, as well as a pretty good understanding of Stihl power equipment - they cannot fool me to much anymore. I did not have a good appreciation of 1184 before I started building my ms 660, but I do, now. Unlike you, I do not believe that I will have problems with the crank seals. My seals looked and felt good and I pushed my crank in both sides, but well lubed. My case gasket looked good and it sealed well, as evidenced by a close examination of the seamafter the cases were together.
Thanks again Matthew - I must admit I totally stole your crank pulling idea, but used a 3/4-16 fine threaded brass rod (amazon) so it would be easier to drill and tap - worked great! Then got the nuts and sleeves from Tractor Supply. Thank you for making these videos - they are a super help in putting this puzzle together!
Hey Matt got to use the tools yesterday they worked out awesome for the job that I needed to get done not done with that saw yet planning to using it as well on another project as well as in the future thanks a lot buddy
Matt, a long day, yesterday but I have an almost empty box and something that resembles a saw. Ran into one difficulty. When they made the cylinder they forgot to grind down a short fin near the exhaust port - about 3/8 of an inch long. There was no way I could get the right front bolt into its hole. I cut it off with my Drexel but I really needed to have the ability to grind if flush to the edge of the port, so I had to cut about 1/8 of an inch from the end of the bolt to get it in. It is in and the cylinder is bolted down. I still have to put the boot back on this morning. I had to take it off to get the cylinder to line up properly - it was hitting on the stand up part of the rear handle to much and keeping me from getting the cylinder to align with the holes in the case. Had a little problem with the rings because this DA flipped the bottom ring over when I installed it. Got it flipped over so the ends were under the anti rotation pins and the cylinder slid down but my eyes and mind were wore out at that point, so it was to call it a day. I did install the flywheel and starter, just so I could pull it over. It has compression but manageable.
Feel like I saw your avatar in an old Arboristsite forum post yesterday on kit-saws, at any rate as I close old windows I found this tab and wanted to just 'poke/bump' to see if you'd update us on your thoughts on this 660, today, 3yrs later! I'm just-past a year of getting serious as a climber (and, hand-in-hand, chainsaw mechanics) and am at the point where I've gotten all I need for climbing (a 25cc/12" and 32cc/16" top-handleds) but still need a good ground-saw. I was very, very eager to get-into kits until I learned: 1 - the kits seem notorious not just for sub-standard materials (as-expected), but for parts that are just straight-up improperly cast & do not fit! Along similar lines: 2 - some of the sub-standard parts - again this is fine&expected to be sub-standard but still - some of them are of such poor quality they're not considered OK for use *from the start* (IE there's lists, not of 1-2 but 5-10 items, for all these kits where you need to order a bunch of OEM parts just to start because the kit's aren't suitable for usage) I'm a fan of efficiency & saving money but these kits seem like a quagmire to me (sadly, I realllly wanted to "get into 200t's" and thought I'd found the way), when there's ready-to-use reliable chinese saws for such great prices I just couldn't imagine a chinese kit-saw route :/ (I mean, my $135 Scheppach CSP2540 is so great at 8.5 months that I'm going to purchase a 2nd so I can port my original one w/o worry; My $230, rebuilt Tanaka TCS33edtp is a bit of a pig weight-wise but he's a hungry pig (and, when he finally dies, a $350 - with solid warranty - Echo 355t will be the optimal replacement IMO, power/weight comparable to 200-series Stihl units at half the price and w/ Echo-reliability? Sign me up lol, have already emailed Echo so I know exactly which retailer to go with once my Tanaka dies since it'll be that-afternoon, straight to a 355t!) I've seen after-time updates of that big ~100cc Holzfforma unit and all were thumbs-up.... 80V lithium setups can out-perform 50cc 2-strokes now, it's only a short while til petrol is only the purview of big logger saws, if lithium weren't on the horizon I'd be seeking a used 660 & buying one of these kits (ie using a kit to rebuild a real Stihl unit) but w/ lithium coming I just can't justify the amount of learning on 2-stroke builds needed, am bona-fide 'amateur level mechanic' at this point I think but as I'm more&more often thinking "next step is major portage/timing/squish/etc work" I increasingly feel it's only for people who, at this point, already have a VERY solid understanding (ie they could be given a boxed kit and have a fighting chance of making it work *without* relying on the web for support), IMO even beginner-2-stroke-mechanic-enthusiasts are already too-late to the party for it to be practical going so deep into 2-strokes at this point (unless 80-100cc+ machines are route for you but even still it's hard to imagine it taking *that* long before they up-size battery packs and you're just popping a *pair* of 100V battery-packs to your 36" setup!)
I am not going to put the bar studs in my case until one of the last steps during assembly because we have enough stuff sticking out of the cases and I like flat surfaces to work on. I also put some 1184 on the oil filter before I put it in the hose. I do not want it falling off in the oil tank, as has happened to me several times.
An acquaintance of mine put about 2 dozen 660s together by just putting the cases in the sun and crank in the freezer and tapped it in and put the cases together with a leather mallet. Used all the factory pieces. Claims they all run fine. I've got 10 days to decide if I'm going for cherry picked oem pieces or full kit. I have an arbor press so I'll just use that lol! I ordered an MS660 and an MS250. For $65 dollars I couldn't pass that up! A 14" bar on that 250 will make one light, torquey comfortable all around saw!
lots of ways you can put these things together... I like my way, but there are all different kinds.. ... "afleetcommand" is another channel... and he shows using the head from a wood stove to put these together...its possible. i'm not a fan of the 250 personally, for the $$ I like my husky 350's ... but thats just me. still, huztl seems to have things priced too tempt a lotta people lol
After your experience putting the crank into the PTO side I looked at that side. Personally, you may have gotten the PTO side a little to hot. I think the spec isv230 to 250 degrees. What I would do is take two 4mm screws and put a small washer on it and allow the washer to catch the edge of the bearing, so it cannot come out when the screw is tightened down. I can't remember if you put 1184 on the bar bolts but you should have because their hols go into the oil tank. Normally I put 242 Locktite on these bolts but in this instance I am going to use 1184 on these bolts to seal any oil out from getting past the threads on the bar bolts. I am also going to use hot/cold to assemble the two halves and crank together. I also think my Chinese case gasket will work fine. The bearing on my PTO side was a little proud, about .015", on both sides of the PTO case half. The Bearing and seal on the flywheel side were flush with their respective sides.
husky spec is 200C for the cases... which is closer to 400F I think. so I doubt 250 or even 300 F is "too" hot. most of the time I'm pressing bearings and cranks in without using heat these days. you must use the oiler as a stop for the PTO side bearing in the 660's ... whether the bearing sits proud in the case or not is irrelevant. 1184 on bar bolts is fine, never had a leak there though. no more hot/cold crankcase assembly. way way way too frustrating. too many getting stuck halfway, hammers, etc. if you get frustrated let me know and I'll get ya a set of tools :)
Or when you get the crankshaft in the case uou can use a knock off on the crankshaft to knock it from side to side and meshure the clearance it will also fit on the clutch side
When you use a press what you do is use a deep socket the same diameter as the inner race of the bearing (or rather just a touch bigger) to press against, that way you are not putting any lateral force on the bearing at all.
Matt, I know they are rough as a cob but I can get it into warm start, now. Maybe they have to wear in, too. I would have put some bar oil on them but I did not want a mess in that part of the saw and I can use that tube on the wd40 i can put it where I want it. I use white lithium a lot but it makes a mess, to. I use it where it is confined, like in the chain break area which is covered. I sprayed all the chain break mecanism with it. I did not get any on the band or sproket.
Have you priced OEM Stihl seal, lately? I bought two for my recalcitrant 029 and they cost my $44 for them. After that, the Chinese versions look real good. I looked at the two in my ms660 kit and they look and feel pretty good. I will lube them with Red Line assembly lube before I put the crank through them. I will also lube the bearing surfaces well with Red Line assembly lube before I push it through the bearings and seals.
the sealant might not be affected once its set, but most materials don't want to set at low temps... I can't imagine heat is good for it either until its set. so I don't like heating cases up or cooling them down if I can avoid it.
Ha! I have tools now to do this much easier. Sold over 500 tool kits world wide to help these crankcases go together much more smoothly. And yes I have an open ended wrench for this but maybe I couldn't find it? Still...the new tools u can use a ratchet instead of an open ended wrench :)
I had no problem with hot and cold on both cases 43 minutes start to finish. I thought it was one of the fastest and easiest. Putting the piston was a lot longer and harder.
what do thay mean by repair parts I went on the sight how did it run and what was the total cost and did the kits come with bar and chain and how long did it take you and are the bearings ok or shud thay be changed and do thay give you aney info like install book what is the quality of parts
no install book, hence my video bolt for bolt ... working on it as we speak. check out AFLEETCOMMAND on youtube, Walt has many of these already running no bar and chain bearings are ok, seals and gaskets are best as oem... lots of tips etc coming up soon! join the discussion at opeforum.com
I put my MS660 clone case together with the hot/cold method and used the cheap Farmetec bearings. The crank is centered but turns a little slow and feels snug. Debating if I should tear it down and replace the bearings or could the crank loosen over time? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Matt, I will tell you one thing that will help with the farmertec master control parts and trigger is wd40. Njust spray down all the control parts and rear handle parts with wd40. They work a lot better, now, and I can get the saw into warm start most of the time, now. I also put a little grease on the arm that rotates the choke and spray the moving parts on the carb with wd40. I will replace all these parts with oem Stihl parts when they come it but until then this remedy seems to work most of the time.
I'm sure plenty of folks do that. That puts flats on the balls of the bearings and causes premature failure. Plus it flexes the crank lobes together also causing stresses on the crank.... vs pro tools and pro results :)
I did not read the description becuase your video came up next to mine and I clicked to watch. I am an enthusiast of the kits and will watch and enjoy every one. There are some published fixes already like the chain adjuster fix you could find helpful. No one that does one will find them boring. An opportunity to put your problem solving hat on. Have fun!
Bedford Teague most people don't read my descriptions.....just the way it is. I'm going to take what I have learned from as many people as possible and put that info into these builds....take care
Start using a combination wrench instead of a channel pliers. Is there a torque sequence to the six bolts? Place rags either side of the connecting rod, instead of banging it around
John, check out my "version 3" of the crank tools, no need for either combo wrench or channels.....just a socket /ratchet .... :) ruclips.net/video/r-iZWjOejNc/видео.html
I don't think there is a torque sequence, never heard of one, but it would make sense .... heads on cars have torque sequences. let me know if you find one. something to damp the rod from banging is a fine idea...tx
Are you working off of a service manuals. Depending on manufacturers some of them are excellent representing the service specs. Honda is a excellent one. I just wanted to no if they have one for the build
John Bladykas I agree..I love having torque specs but I do not have such specs for this model. I do not have the service manual...but have never found case bolts to be a problem torque wise....
I do not believe in predisposing failure. Seals, OEM or aftermarket fail with equal regularity. I think the seals that came with my ms 660 kit were as good as any stihl or oem seal. Mine checked the farmertec 49mm 029 jug after 15 tanks and they were still fine and a tight seal on the crank. What failed with it was the seal between the crankcase and the cylinder because I had used the wrong rtv on it. My fault. I think the reason some have crank failure with this kit is because they tune it to over 13,500 rpms. I never set my saws, even though they are 100% stihl to anywhere near this speed. I limit my saws to 12,600 to 12,800 with a good four cycle. I will probably limit my ms 660 to the same range.
Matthew , the cylinder i received from Hutzle has three hairline cracks in it! They also honed thru Nickosil coating at cylinder base! This Cylinder would not last three tanks of fuel! Still NO response from Hudzle? Save your money buy factory Sthil!
Valarkeptbyeforce I haven't seen that problem....I can't speak for huztl but all the aftermarket cylinders I've worked with need work ....cracks are unacceptable though no question
I don't know, haven't worked on an 046. its either m8x1.0 or m10x1.0 .... most flywheel nuts are that size. the rare exception I know of is the husky 242xp family which is m8x1.25 flwheel nut
Just curious on a couple of things, You take out the crank bearing seal because heat could damage it then just leave it out? It seems unlikely to me that 250°f would damage a seal on an engine crankshaft? Two you and others center the crank but do not install select fit washers...don't you think that over time the cranks will walk to one side or the other? I find it likely.An NPT tap is a pipe thread...they increase in size as the further you tap into the stock...so the threads are only making contact for a few turns...kinda scary.Last but not least, if copyrightstealtec (farmertec/huztl) is going to charge 100 for shipping the least they could do is double box and provide a packing and inventory sheet for their "complete parts kits". Ok that's it..sorry not trying to be hateful just seems like a lot of sketchy info.
Ok... what info is sketchy? I don't work for huztl. #1, I remove the pre installed crank seals for a number of reasons. I don't trust them to begin with, my crank installation tools work by pulling the crank through the inner race which is safest for the bearings, AND because I don't trust the seal to stay integral after I pull a crank through it, ie, if the rubber inverts then the round spring inside may pop out and you won't know it until you have a leak #2, even if the crank walks from one side to another, who cares? It probably won't matter a hoot and the big end bearing is designed to have plenty of play in this direction. ... that said I do believe its unlikely for it to walk. I personally could care less about the centering, but if you want to do it, I describe how to do it. #3, my crank tools don't use NPT pipe threads. they are manufactured today with the correct taps. the 1/8 NPT pipe tap was something I was using in the meantime until I got a m10x1.0 RH tap for the flywheel side. the npt didn't work well, though it did work well enough for some of what I was doing. .... so... what is sketchy again?
oh, and I don't think these were really ever intended as "kits" ... just complete sets of parts ... and ... whats the difference? I dunno, just seems to me like there'd be better inventory control if this was intended to be a kit. who knows. the packaging is fairly robust. the inventory control is sketchy but that its to their detriment because it costs them big $$ to ship missing pieces.
Hey Matt, Boring video maybe if your 10, but not for the real gear heads. l agree it wasn't Caddyshack but you did have a lot of good tech info and pointers to keep us nut heads entertained.
Not sure why everyone is making such a big deal out of the crank install.. just did mine with a couple taps from a hammer on a piece of wood to protect the threads, then squeezed the two halves together and used the screws to gradually work it together (applying even force across the whole surface).. if the parts had a very tight fit I could see the need for heating and cooling but they just slid together like nothing..
Apparently I never looked through all your series of videos but I asked tonight and you said you had built some of the kits so I want the SUPER BORING stuff so teach me ,,,, chain saw professor.
@DB Stevens ah, this brings up the other issue of using an arbor press, if you push on the crank (rather than pull), you are ...very slightly. likely pushing the crank lobes together because the big end bearing is offset from the crankshaft axis. you are correct that if the inner bearing race is supported from the opposite side and the crank is pushed in that the net force on the bearing itself is also zero, but there is still some (albeit limited) risk to the crank itself because the lobes are being contracted. just for giggles, can you find a video of someone supporting JUST the inner race of the bearing, and using an arbor press to press the crank in? anyway, yes my homemade tool is still a press (well, tensioning device) ... I just think its way more controlled than any other tool out there, and more safe for the components than anything else. again, thanks for the comment
Hey just noticed these videos nice job. This is twinstaged from the forums. If anyone is looking for the gasket set in medina, Ohio it was only 11 dollars from my dealer. Seals, case half, base, and exhaust.
So you buy a "kit" but the kit doesn't necessarly contain the right things and not necessarly all of the required pieces. So basically I can forgot about this and I'll have to resort to buying premade :'(
Catchme Ifyoucan these are called KITS but I think it'd a misnomer. They are a moving target for sure. This doesn't mean they can't be useful fun or productive.
why dont just make a video of putting the kit together with what come with it for the simple folks here. instead of 45 minutes of this is better, that is better.
The simple reason is that this is not necessarily a simple kit there is a considerable amount of nuance to getting this particular thing right and please also consider that in the history of the planet this is the first chainsaw that comes in a kit so again there is considerable nuance to get things right and to fit correctly and for it to be reliable
Heat gun and freezer for crank. Gentler on the parts
i'll respectfully disagree. i did hot/cold for years. no more of that for me. hot/cold has issues, one of them is moisture on the crank after its been frozen. 2nd is safety of hot things, 3rd is control. ... I had the issue plenty of times where I lost the heat differential and the crank / case got stuck halfway. then you have to press it anyway putting lateral forces somewhere. 4th issue is time... hot cold requires you to be adept and fast at putting the pieces together. if you are too slow, or don't have things set up just right, you lose your heat ... plus another time factor is the time it takes to put the crank in the freezer and cool it down. 5th issue is sealants. when you heat things up and cool things down sealants may or may not work ideally at those temperatures. I use 1184 on my crankcases, so if I use my crank tools at room temp I don't worry. I've had plenty of guys that have done hot/cold for YEARS try my crank tools, and get hooked. no more waiting, no safety issues, total control, completely safe for bearings and parts. thanks for the comment though!
Put my new ms 660 crankcase halves together, using the hot/cold method. Put the crank in the freezer at 11:20 and put the PTO case half in a previous heated 250 degree oven a few minutes later. At 11:30 I pushed the crank into the bearings and seals of the PTO side. I used a small piece of folded up thick business card to set the clearance - just as you did. I then cleaned the gasket surfaces with break clean and put a light coat of TB 1184 on gasket mating surfaces of both halves. I the put the crank and the PTO side in the freezer and the flywheel side in the preheated oven. After 10 minutes, I pushed the crank into the flywheel side. I had to hit the case a few times with my hand but everything went down, slicker than snot. I then coated the 6 engine bolts with 1184 and screwed them down to clamp the two sides together. I had the cases supported by 2 short pieces of 2 by 6 with a gap between to allow the protruding crank to clear my shop table. I was finished at exactly 12:03, so it took me 43 minutes to do it all and this time included cleaning the 1184 off my fingers. I have sine put the rear handle and the AV buffers on the saw. Yes, saw, because no one would now confuse it for something else.
done it that way plenty of times John. ... had things go wrong enough now that I will never do that again. the tools have much more control and are completely safe
make sure you vac test the saw if you've pushed the crank through a bearing AND seal ... of the seal puckered at all, the spring pops out and you won't know it until you vac test it.
otherwise, enjoy the 660 ... its fun :)
I just got finished with Hurricane Irma. Woke up this morning needing a chainsaw. Started out comparing prices at the box stores/smaller stores. After hours and hours I end up here watching this video. It's unreal how much you learn in a couple of hours. I just started the vid. (yes I have been watching the others) I hope by the end, I can feel confident enough to try this. Nope, it want solve my immediate need for a chainsaw, but looks to be a fun project.
JAWS1376 hey. ....great! At least you are learning!! In an emergency. ...no shame in buying a saw. But for the next one....you'll be better prepared. Take saws apart!! Just as much to learn there. Happy to have you along for the ride here!
I think the farmertec msb660 kit is a good one. There are issues, as you state, and you will need a lot of German DNA to figure out things and a pretty good set of tools. I have both, as well as a pretty good understanding of Stihl power equipment - they cannot fool me to much anymore. I did not have a good appreciation of 1184 before I started building my ms 660, but I do, now. Unlike you, I do not believe that I will have problems with the crank seals. My seals looked and felt good and I pushed my crank in both sides, but well lubed. My case gasket looked good and it sealed well, as evidenced by a close examination of the seamafter the cases were together.
Thank you for taking the time to document this AND taking the time to summarize your changes/addendum.
Alex welcome!
Thanks again Matthew - I must admit I totally stole your crank pulling idea, but used a 3/4-16 fine threaded brass rod (amazon) so it would be easier to drill and tap - worked great! Then got the nuts and sleeves from Tractor Supply. Thank you for making these videos - they are a super help in putting this puzzle together!
FloridaFrank2010 glad it worked for you!! Great!
FloridaFrank2010 glad it worked for you!! Great!
Watched you 372 build loved it. I'm late to this game. Watching Walt as well. Great stuff.
Hey Matt got to use the tools yesterday they worked out awesome for the job that I needed to get done not done with that saw yet planning to using it as well on another project as well as in the future thanks a lot buddy
Great!
Matt, a long day, yesterday but I have an almost empty box and something that resembles a saw. Ran into one difficulty. When they made the cylinder they forgot to grind down a short fin near the exhaust port - about 3/8 of an inch long. There was no way I could get the right front bolt into its hole. I cut it off with my Drexel but I really needed to have the ability to grind if flush to the edge of the port, so I had to cut about 1/8 of an inch from the end of the bolt to get it in. It is in and the cylinder is bolted down. I still have to put the boot back on this morning. I had to take it off to get the cylinder to line up properly - it was hitting on the stand up part of the rear handle to much and keeping me from getting the cylinder to align with the holes in the case. Had a little problem with the rings because this DA flipped the bottom ring over when I installed it. Got it flipped over so the ends were under the anti rotation pins and the cylinder slid down but my eyes and mind were wore out at that point, so it was to call it a day. I did install the flywheel and starter, just so I could pull it over. It has compression but manageable.
A fun build but there are odd challenges with it :)
Hey guys, here's a more updated video on these cases: ruclips.net/video/D4PyurFrc40/видео.html
Feel like I saw your avatar in an old Arboristsite forum post yesterday on kit-saws, at any rate as I close old windows I found this tab and wanted to just 'poke/bump' to see if you'd update us on your thoughts on this 660, today, 3yrs later!
I'm just-past a year of getting serious as a climber (and, hand-in-hand, chainsaw mechanics) and am at the point where I've gotten all I need for climbing (a 25cc/12" and 32cc/16" top-handleds) but still need a good ground-saw. I was very, very eager to get-into kits until I learned:
1 - the kits seem notorious not just for sub-standard materials (as-expected), but for parts that are just straight-up improperly cast & do not fit! Along similar lines:
2 - some of the sub-standard parts - again this is fine&expected to be sub-standard but still - some of them are of such poor quality they're not considered OK for use *from the start* (IE there's lists, not of 1-2 but 5-10 items, for all these kits where you need to order a bunch of OEM parts just to start because the kit's aren't suitable for usage)
I'm a fan of efficiency & saving money but these kits seem like a quagmire to me (sadly, I realllly wanted to "get into 200t's" and thought I'd found the way), when there's ready-to-use reliable chinese saws for such great prices I just couldn't imagine a chinese kit-saw route :/ (I mean, my $135 Scheppach CSP2540 is so great at 8.5 months that I'm going to purchase a 2nd so I can port my original one w/o worry; My $230, rebuilt Tanaka TCS33edtp is a bit of a pig weight-wise but he's a hungry pig (and, when he finally dies, a $350 - with solid warranty - Echo 355t will be the optimal replacement IMO, power/weight comparable to 200-series Stihl units at half the price and w/ Echo-reliability? Sign me up lol, have already emailed Echo so I know exactly which retailer to go with once my Tanaka dies since it'll be that-afternoon, straight to a 355t!) I've seen after-time updates of that big ~100cc Holzfforma unit and all were thumbs-up....
80V lithium setups can out-perform 50cc 2-strokes now, it's only a short while til petrol is only the purview of big logger saws, if lithium weren't on the horizon I'd be seeking a used 660 & buying one of these kits (ie using a kit to rebuild a real Stihl unit) but w/ lithium coming I just can't justify the amount of learning on 2-stroke builds needed, am bona-fide 'amateur level mechanic' at this point I think but as I'm more&more often thinking "next step is major portage/timing/squish/etc work" I increasingly feel it's only for people who, at this point, already have a VERY solid understanding (ie they could be given a boxed kit and have a fighting chance of making it work *without* relying on the web for support), IMO even beginner-2-stroke-mechanic-enthusiasts are already too-late to the party for it to be practical going so deep into 2-strokes at this point (unless 80-100cc+ machines are route for you but even still it's hard to imagine it taking *that* long before they up-size battery packs and you're just popping a *pair* of 100V battery-packs to your 36" setup!)
Gonna answer this in a live video right now...check out my newest vid...
I am not going to put the bar studs in my case until one of the last steps during assembly because we have enough stuff sticking out of the cases and I like flat surfaces to work on.
I also put some 1184 on the oil filter before I put it in the hose. I do not want it falling off in the oil tank, as has happened to me several times.
really? interesting. I guess you can do that. i've not seen an oil filter fall off the hose in the tank.
An acquaintance of mine put about 2 dozen 660s together by just putting the cases in the sun and crank in the freezer and tapped it in and put the cases together with a leather mallet. Used all the factory pieces. Claims they all run fine. I've got 10 days to decide if I'm going for cherry picked oem pieces or full kit. I have an arbor press so I'll just use that lol! I ordered an MS660 and an MS250. For $65 dollars I couldn't pass that up! A 14" bar on that 250 will make one light, torquey comfortable all around saw!
lots of ways you can put these things together... I like my way, but there are all different kinds.. ... "afleetcommand" is another channel... and he shows using the head from a wood stove to put these together...its possible. i'm not a fan of the 250 personally, for the $$ I like my husky 350's ... but thats just me. still, huztl seems to have things priced too tempt a lotta people lol
After your experience putting the crank into the PTO side I looked at that side. Personally, you may have gotten the PTO side a little to hot. I think the spec isv230 to 250 degrees. What I would do is take two 4mm screws and put a small washer on it and allow the washer to catch the edge of the bearing, so it cannot come out when the screw is tightened down. I can't remember if you put 1184 on the bar bolts but you should have because their hols go into the oil tank. Normally I put 242 Locktite on these bolts but in this instance I am going to use 1184 on these bolts to seal any oil out from getting past the threads on the bar bolts. I am also going to use hot/cold to assemble the two halves and crank together. I also think my Chinese case gasket will work fine. The bearing on my PTO side was a little proud, about .015", on both sides of the PTO case half. The Bearing and seal on the flywheel side were flush with their respective sides.
husky spec is 200C for the cases... which is closer to 400F I think. so I doubt 250 or even 300 F is "too" hot.
most of the time I'm pressing bearings and cranks in without using heat these days. you must use the oiler as a stop for the PTO side bearing in the 660's ... whether the bearing sits proud in the case or not is irrelevant.
1184 on bar bolts is fine, never had a leak there though.
no more hot/cold crankcase assembly. way way way too frustrating. too many getting stuck halfway, hammers, etc. if you get frustrated let me know and I'll get ya a set of tools :)
So far my 660 has a couple of bad paint spots chipping out and dirty bearings im replacing
just use the crankcase bolts in the center to pull the halves of the case together i do it all the time, just be careful and slow
Or when you get the crankshaft in the case uou can use a knock off on the crankshaft to knock it from side to side and meshure the clearance it will also fit on the clutch side
You can put flats on the balls of the bearings like that :)
When you use a press what you do is use a deep socket the same diameter as the inner race of the bearing (or rather just a touch bigger) to press against, that way you are not putting any lateral force on the bearing at all.
But by pressing a crank you stress the lobes and push them together. Better to pull a crank through a a bearing than push it
Matt, I know they are rough as a cob but I can get it into warm start, now. Maybe they have to wear in, too. I would have put some bar oil on them but I did not want a mess in that part of the saw and I can use that tube on the wd40 i can put it where I want it. I use white lithium a lot but it makes a mess, to. I use it where it is confined, like in the chain break area which is covered. I sprayed all the chain break mecanism with it. I did not get any on the band or sproket.
Have you priced OEM Stihl seal, lately? I bought two for my recalcitrant 029 and they cost my $44 for them. After that, the Chinese versions look real good. I looked at the two in my ms660 kit and they look and feel pretty good. I will lube them with Red Line assembly lube before I put the crank through them. I will also lube the bearing surfaces well with Red Line assembly lube before I push it through the bearings and seals.
no way will I pull a crank through a bearing and seal anymore. too much risk of puckering it.
Not sure I'll have the courage to buy a chainsaw in a box but the videos are sure going to help me understand what's going on in there. Thank you.
CTSCAPER welcome!!! ...and go for it!
It does not affect the sealant because it is good to about 40 below. Your freezer won't get that cold.
Good to know
the sealant might not be affected once its set, but most materials don't want to set at low temps... I can't imagine heat is good for it either until its set. so I don't like heating cases up or cooling them down if I can avoid it.
Looking forward to watching the whole build
Hey man.... happy to have ya along for the ride. ...let me know if you have questions.
@@matthewolson8875 I have one, do you have any other videos on ms150s except the one where you did the saw for your Dad?
At 38:14 just wondering if anyone ever introduced you to an open end wrench.
Ha! I have tools now to do this much easier. Sold over 500 tool kits world wide to help these crankcases go together much more smoothly. And yes I have an open ended wrench for this but maybe I couldn't find it? Still...the new tools u can use a ratchet instead of an open ended wrench :)
Go through the bearing and put the screw driver on a angle on the seal
I had no problem with hot and cold on both cases 43 minutes start to finish. I thought it was one of the fastest and easiest. Putting the piston was a lot longer and harder.
what do thay mean by repair parts I went on the sight how did it run and what was the total cost and did the kits come with bar and chain and how long did it take you and are the bearings ok or shud thay be changed and do thay give you aney info like install book what is the quality of parts
no install book, hence my video bolt for bolt ... working on it as we speak.
check out AFLEETCOMMAND on youtube, Walt has many of these already running
no bar and chain
bearings are ok, seals and gaskets are best as oem... lots of tips etc coming up soon!
join the discussion at opeforum.com
I put my MS660 clone case together with the hot/cold method and used the cheap Farmetec bearings. The crank is centered but turns a little slow and feels snug. Debating if I should tear it down and replace the bearings or could the crank loosen over time? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
as it heats and cools over time it should loosen up.
Matt, I will tell you one thing that will help with the farmertec master control parts and trigger is wd40. Njust spray down all the control parts and rear handle parts with wd40. They work a lot better, now, and I can get the saw into warm start most of the time, now. I also put a little grease on the arm that rotates the choke and spray the moving parts on the carb with wd40. I will replace all these parts with oem Stihl parts when they come it but until then this remedy seems to work most of the time.
i coated all of mine with grease... still not as nice a feel as the oem parts
I just use a socket and a mallet to press the case together.
I'm sure plenty of folks do that. That puts flats on the balls of the bearings and causes premature failure. Plus it flexes the crank lobes together also causing stresses on the crank.... vs pro tools and pro results :)
www.Huztl.net has been doing it for a year. They are the retail arm of Farmertec the manufacture of the saw kit.
Bedford Teague ya....thanks for the link...it is also in the description
I did not read the description becuase your video came up next to mine and I clicked to watch. I am an enthusiast of the kits and will watch and enjoy every one. There are some published fixes already like the chain adjuster fix you could find helpful. No one that does one will find them boring. An opportunity to put your problem solving hat on. Have fun!
Bedford Teague most people don't read my descriptions.....just the way it is. I'm going to take what I have learned from as many people as possible and put that info into these builds....take care
Start using a combination wrench instead of a channel pliers.
Is there a torque sequence to the six bolts?
Place rags either side of the connecting rod, instead of banging it around
John, check out my "version 3" of the crank tools, no need for either combo wrench or channels.....just a socket /ratchet .... :) ruclips.net/video/r-iZWjOejNc/видео.html
I don't think there is a torque sequence, never heard of one, but it would make sense .... heads on cars have torque sequences. let me know if you find one.
something to damp the rod from banging is a fine idea...tx
Are you working off of a service manuals.
Depending on manufacturers some of them are excellent representing the service specs.
Honda is a excellent one. I just wanted to no if they have one for the build
John Bladykas I agree..I love having torque specs but I do not have such specs for this model. I do not have the service manual...but have never found case bolts to be a problem torque wise....
it looks like your first time
It was...never did a 660 before. Check my most current live vid....gonna do a 660 /650
i might just get one of these, would be a fun prodject be cool to make one of the big as husky saws
its quite the project, thats for sure! best of luck!
Do you have any advice on the husky clone?
ryanjames170 I've got a vid of it. ..just haven't posted the finale
I do not believe in predisposing failure. Seals, OEM or aftermarket fail with equal regularity. I think the seals that came with my ms 660 kit were as good as any stihl or oem seal. Mine checked the farmertec 49mm 029 jug after 15 tanks and they were still fine and a tight seal on the crank. What failed with it was the seal between the crankcase and the cylinder because I had used the wrong rtv on it. My fault.
I think the reason some have crank failure with this kit is because they tune it to over 13,500 rpms. I never set my saws, even though they are 100% stihl to anywhere near this speed. I limit my saws to 12,600 to 12,800 with a good four cycle. I will probably limit my ms 660 to the same range.
Do you have an issue with the bearings that came with the kit
Not so far. I'd prefer to have non China bearings but so far I've had ok luck with the China pto bearing
Excellent series thanks!
welcome! I'm gonna do another one too...just for the heck of it!
awesome info.
Hi do you build these to sell with sthil oem parts an 56mm big bore cylinder kit.
I have sold a few....but check out John Reilly channel .....he may have one that interests you...
ruclips.net/video/2BUt1LkdEvg/видео.html
Matthew , the cylinder i received from Hutzle has three hairline cracks in it! They also honed thru Nickosil coating at cylinder base! This Cylinder would not last three tanks of fuel! Still NO response from Hudzle? Save your money buy factory Sthil!
Valarkeptbyeforce I haven't seen that problem....I can't speak for huztl but all the aftermarket cylinders I've worked with need work ....cracks are unacceptable though no question
How much is this saw kit?
www.hlsproparts.com/product-p/cs66020a.htm?Click=48376
Do I have to be a journeyman machinist to build it?
Nope.... I'm not :)
Can anyone help me where abouts do you buy these chainsaws from
Look in the description of the video. It has my link to hlsupply
could you do a clone Stihl MS460 How To Build Kit
I might do one if someone comissions a build. Other than that I have no need for one personally at this point.
What is the size of the magneto side of an 046
I don't know, haven't worked on an 046. its either m8x1.0 or m10x1.0 .... most flywheel nuts are that size. the rare exception I know of is the husky 242xp family which is m8x1.25 flwheel nut
could do a Huztl stihl ms 460 clone bold for bolt please @
See my other reply
Just curious on a couple of things,
You take out the crank bearing seal because heat could damage it then just leave it out? It seems unlikely to me that 250°f would damage a seal on an engine crankshaft?
Two you and others center the crank but do not install select fit washers...don't you think that over time the cranks will walk to one side or the other? I find it likely.An NPT tap is a pipe thread...they increase in size as the further you tap into the stock...so the threads are only making contact for a few turns...kinda scary.Last but not least, if copyrightstealtec (farmertec/huztl) is going to charge 100 for shipping the least they could do is double box and provide a packing and inventory sheet for their "complete parts kits".
Ok that's it..sorry not trying to be hateful just seems like a lot of sketchy info.
Ok... what info is sketchy? I don't work for huztl. #1, I remove the pre installed crank seals for a number of reasons. I don't trust them to begin with, my crank installation tools work by pulling the crank through the inner race which is safest for the bearings, AND because I don't trust the seal to stay integral after I pull a crank through it, ie, if the rubber inverts then the round spring inside may pop out and you won't know it until you have a leak #2, even if the crank walks from one side to another, who cares? It probably won't matter a hoot and the big end bearing is designed to have plenty of play in this direction. ... that said I do believe its unlikely for it to walk. I personally could care less about the centering, but if you want to do it, I describe how to do it. #3, my crank tools don't use NPT pipe threads. they are manufactured today with the correct taps. the 1/8 NPT pipe tap was something I was using in the meantime until I got a m10x1.0 RH tap for the flywheel side. the npt didn't work well, though it did work well enough for some of what I was doing. .... so... what is sketchy again?
oh, and I don't think these were really ever intended as "kits" ... just complete sets of parts ... and ... whats the difference? I dunno, just seems to me like there'd be better inventory control if this was intended to be a kit. who knows. the packaging is fairly robust. the inventory control is sketchy but that its to their detriment because it costs them big $$ to ship missing pieces.
Put 2 screws though the case so it doesn't turn
I did a gs661
Hey Matt, Boring video maybe if your 10, but not for the real gear heads. l agree it wasn't Caddyshack but you did have a lot of good tech info and pointers to keep us nut heads entertained.
glad you liked it... i've got part 2 downloading to my comp now... takes a LONG time to edit this stuff, so bear with me, but its coming
Looks like 145 plus me went for the super boring as well. LOL HAHA
STEVE ROB strap in...boring seas ahead...but but but....should be some really relevant stuff for reference
Not sure why everyone is making such a big deal out of the crank install.. just did mine with a couple taps from a hammer on a piece of wood to protect the threads, then squeezed the two halves together and used the screws to gradually work it together (applying even force across the whole surface).. if the parts had a very tight fit I could see the need for heating and cooling but they just slid together like nothing..
How is the saw doing? I’m going to try what you have said if your saw is still doing good
Apparently I never looked through all your series of videos but I asked tonight and you said you had built some of the kits so I want the SUPER BORING stuff so teach me ,,,, chain saw professor.
U got it!
how much was the kit I am a cirt stihl tech
john Kosheluk check hutzl.net. $186 plus shipping or something like that
lol the hot and cold part just made me laugh sorry!
Yes i checked out fleet command! The cylynders is new in kit and crackedn cannot put together with junk waste of time
Valarkeptbyeforce not sure I understand. ...sorry
For gods sakes buy a $60.00 press.
Eric Teipen no thanks....that puts unnecessary lateral forces on the bearings and the crank
@DB Stevens ah, this brings up the other issue of using an arbor press, if you push on the crank (rather than pull), you are ...very slightly. likely pushing the crank lobes together because the big end bearing is offset from the crankshaft axis. you are correct that if the inner bearing race is supported from the opposite side and the crank is pushed in that the net force on the bearing itself is also zero, but there is still some (albeit limited) risk to the crank itself because the lobes are being contracted. just for giggles, can you find a video of someone supporting JUST the inner race of the bearing, and using an arbor press to press the crank in?
anyway, yes my homemade tool is still a press (well, tensioning device) ... I just think its way more controlled than any other tool out there, and more safe for the components than anything else. again, thanks for the comment
who is walter where are his vids
Valarkeptbyeforce check out AFLEETCOMMAND channel
Hey just noticed these videos nice job. This is twinstaged from the forums. If anyone is looking for the gasket set in medina, Ohio it was only 11 dollars from my dealer. Seals, case half, base, and exhaust.
twinstaged hi twinstaged....nice price on that gasket set!
but i just built one of these sawswith no none nada jnstructions
Nice!
If you’re going to title it “bolt for bolt” the least you could do is show which bolts you use.
Wade Bair I'm sorry wade...did I miss something?
So you buy a "kit" but the kit doesn't necessarly contain the right things and not necessarly all of the required pieces. So basically I can forgot about this and I'll have to resort to buying premade :'(
Catchme Ifyoucan these are called KITS but I think it'd a misnomer. They are a moving target for sure. This doesn't mean they can't be useful fun or productive.
Oh but I don't doubt they can be fun to build, but I just lack the technical skill to figure this all out, unfortunately. Good luck.
Catchme Ifyoucan that's what i am here for :) to help you get some ambition to try your hand at this :)
why dont just make a video of putting the kit together with what come with it for the simple folks here. instead of 45 minutes of this is better, that is better.
or take the time to show what parts we are putting in. like the oiler for example. poor vid. thanks anyway.
The simple reason is that this is not necessarily a simple kit there is a considerable amount of nuance to getting this particular thing right and please also consider that in the history of the planet this is the first chainsaw that comes in a kit so again there is considerable nuance to get things right and to fit correctly and for it to be reliable
Starting my 660 now