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Nier Replicant/Gestalt Analysis (Ep.1) | State Of The Arc Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2024
- In this first episode of our deep-dive analysis of Nier Replicant/Gestalt, we look at the key members of the development staff and the reasoning behind their creative decisions in turning Nier into its own IP rather than a direct Drakengard sequel. We also examine the thought process and style of director Yoko Taro, and how his observations of human nature shaped the themes of Nier. After that, we dive into Nier’s prologue, show why it is such a strong hook for the story, and continue up through the Junk Heap and Seafront areas.
Time Codes:
1. Introduction (0:00)
2. Development History (05:06)
3. Drakengard E Ending Spoiler Warning (27:25)
4. What is Nier's Core Theme? (39:30)
5. Summary and Analysis of Nier's Prologue (1:02:32)
6. Summary and Analysis of the Village (1:20:13)
7. Summary and Analysis of Lost Shrine (1:29:31)
8. Summary and Analysis of Song of the Ancients (1:37:33)
9. Summary and Analysis of the Aerie (1:44:02)
10. Summary and Analysis of the Junk Heap (2:03:18)
11. Summary and Analysis of Seafront (2:10:56)
12. Wrapping Up (2:15:14)
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The flash frame Mike references at 1:05:00 was added by the particular RUclips channel that uploaded that video for fun, and is not part of the game.
As I mentioned in the response below also. In the Japanese Gestalt, even though it only has an English dub and is otherwise identical to the western releases from what I can tell, it still has Tokyo Tower, so that is interesting in either case.
@@bishopcruz Oh, that's interesting!
@@CasenSperry It's only in Nier Replicant ver 1.22 but if your locale is UK then it has Big Ben where Tokyo Tower should off been
I killed those poor shades just because Nier told me they were a threat and we're not, I was fooled into killed innocents... Yoko you did it.
1:07:13 didn't they hate final fantasy 8 words in the intro but this gets a pass why, because it's cursing I guess Final Fantasy 8 only need to do is have fuck in it.
The concept of a JRPG book club is just awesome. I don't know if anyone else does this, but I'd love to see it get more traction. It's really engaging, and I'll be playing Nier along with you guys. I can't wait for the next episode!
Check out Minnmax, they have done a number of different games, but if you like FF Vii Remake, they had a great game club discussion for it.
@@redomagnus4762 cool
One thing you briefly mentioned but didn't go into is the fact that the drakeniers multiverse is largely collection of infinite worlds that are primarily like our own but have the potential to branch off when faced with "bad luck" of things going south in other timelines. Drakengard world was originally as normal as niers but much further in the past, but like nier with the arrival of queen beast caim and angelus, Drakengards world was hit but the sudden arrival of the cathedral city which just happens to be another destroyed modern tokyo ovverrun with monsters from some unknown cataclysm in another timeline.
This is what lead to Drakengard 3, 1 and the arrival of magic and other wordly species into drakengards world.
The empire caim fights against in drakengard 1s base of operations is this cathedral city, as the people inside the empire are being controlled by the watchers, the old gods.
Its almost identical to white legion in niers timeline as a result of the white chlorination sydrome. And it further ties to automata and the chaotic logic virus that started to take over the androids as well. All of these instances signified by the host being controlled by glowing red eyes
Its really insane how this "God" is still ruining the world, even the androids, its interesting how 2B mentions wanting to kill him
Even though I never played this game, the FF8 Analysis was so damn enjoying, this one will be a hell of an adventure too
I subscribed to your Patreon mainly to vote NieR. I’m so stoked for this. Hopefully my copy arrives soon so I can keep up with future episodes!
Thank u good sir lol cant wait for the next part
As much as I would love to see this become a weekly series, I feel like that would really put pressure on not only the both of you to pump out content, but as well for people playing along and trying to keep pace. Perhaps Bi-Weekly would be a nice medium. Whatever you decide I wish you guys the best, and can't wait for the next episode.
The weekly podcast he's referring to isn't related to these in depth discussions, it would've a separate one (usually) where they answer the Patreons questions. At least that's what it is now, except it's monthly.
Haven’t played this game but I plan to now that you all are analyzing it; dropping a like to help the algorithm out!
Or you could drop a like because you like the video which you seem to.
@@jus4000kicks Reading comprehension.
@@radicalstanza3614 Uh. I understood what he or she said. I just am getting rather tired of people saying that they will like something to feed an algorithm. Just say that you like the video and drop a like. Don't have to say it in such a weird roundabout way. Its getting old pretty fast.
Mandem jacked af, rpg jacked jesus i love it
It is amazing to see after all those years how did you developed yourself, your channel and also stood substantive. I'm subscriber since the Xenogears review. Best regards.
I'm her to like and comment for algorithm. Fucking STOKED you guys chose to do Nier, will watch in full in the morning, it's super late, thanks guys! Can't wait.
was watching some Ufc Fight hype stuff, saw Resonant Arc upload, switched immediately
Alright boys, time to hit that patreon goal so we can get this weekly. Would love for them to cover the remaster too in here for all the stuff in it.
So as well as the Tokyo Tower/Empire State thing mentioned at ~1:03:15 the other localised versions also have different towers in the prologue.
In the UK it's Elizabeth Tower (which houses Big Ben), France has the Eiffel Tower and so on.
I‘m a fan of this franchise since Drakengard 1 and of course played Nier at the time it came out. I knew most of the stuff you we‘re talking about in this podcast. BUT listening to you nerding so hard about it, made me appreciate this franchise even more!
I've beaten the original 3 times, (I platinum'd it) and I SO amped that you're doing this!!
Same here, beaten the original 3 time (I achieved all on the xbox)
First discovered you guys' channel through this video and I must say I'm loving it. The analysis is deep, meaningful and you both added very eyes-opening perspective to the story. I'm looking forward to the next episode, cheers!
About the sun never setting, Devola was specifically talking about drinking. Nier mentions it's too early to start drinking and she replies with something close to "there's not too early when the sun never sets". I took this to be more metaphorical, like she was implying that you would normally drink after a day of work (after the sun sets), but if you never stop working, it's as if the sun never sets, and therefore, it doesn't matter what time of the day you're doing your drinking.
I've only gotten as far as the beach on the game so I don't really know if this is actually the case, but this is how I read the subtext of that dialogue.
Great episode btw!! A lot to think about.
Haven’t finished listening yet but wanted to say I’m loving this analysis so far! I never comment on videos but for this one I just felt like I had to. Great job!
This was exactly what I was looking for. A cohesive analysis and discussion about the game. Thank you.
Very good start, can't wait for the next episodes!!! ❤️
I'll be playing along with Replicant.
Keep up the good work 💪
YES!! Can't wait to listen to this. I actually played the original Nier pretty recently so it's still all fresh in my memory, but I will replay the remaster soon enough after viewing your analysis series. I think I'll enjoy it more that way.
Yoko Taro has stated that for a Neir replicant and Neir Automata film adaptation, he wants every character to be played by Christopher Lambert. I 100% agree with that choice
Congrats for reaching 125K subs 👏
If you've finished the game (like with all the endings), try and watch Clemps's videos on the series along with the Drakengard 1 ones (don't play that). It should help with some of the research.
Also, here's what Yoko Taro looks like: /watch?v=OO_d3fwTNPo
He did a talk on GDC.
And yeah... they do bleep out the profanity from Kaine in Japanese. Here's a good example playthrough: ruclips.net/video/7trNsm0uzG0/видео.html
I love your podcast so I'll be sure to listen to you guys this weekend!
awesome pack of podcast, congratulations for your work
1:23:01 the same thing happens in FF XIII: Lightning Returns, when you get closer to a guitar player singing in Luxerion. It's a nice touch for sure.
I could literally listen to ya all day, including when it comes to Final Fantasy and now Nier!
You just got yourself a subscriber, keep up the great videos 👍🏼
Perfect! I just replayed both Gestalt and Replicant back to back! I'm excited to hear what you guys have to say!
Wow just started playing through Nier Replicant, cannot wait to keep playing after work! Looking forward to watching this, love the channel!
Excited for this podcast series, just as I was for FFVIII. Keep it rolling, guys!
Excellent - Again! Great context for those who are about to dive into Nier. Thanks!
so hyped for this series! NieR is such a special game, and story-wise it's top-notch
literally the best podcast that anyone could listen to ! ❤
Great to see this being covered guys. Just so you know, the new remake has an added quest and ending, so it may be important to analyse and look into that.
Lore wise I think Drakengards history is similiar to our worlds history until Magic entered the world with the appearance of a city. At that point, their history diverges.
yeh, i read a google preadsheet of the whole story and events and damn lol
excellent quality guys and studio etc. love the content - hope you guys take off like you deserve to !!!!
This is a wonderful thing y'all are doing and I think we all wholeheartedly support it.
Just started playing great to have your podcast to keep up with on the way
Oh my god I never thought you guys would touch on this game! I'm so excited to watch this series! Thank you for the hard work guys!
Glad I found this channel, I can tell you guys did some thorough research
NieR Gestalt is one of my all time favorite games, been waiting for this moment! Next month can't come soon enough.
Incredible work as always
I’m happy you understand the difference between a remaster and remake. A lot of people are calling this a remake and it’s just not. Square didn’t take the time to build this from the ground up to rerelease it they just touched up the og game.
These two always entertain and educate me, they make a great team honestly.
Fantastic video guys a great watch thanks
Never played Nier and I don’t think I will, but I really love the positive energy in these series of analysis podcasts (ffviii included). One of my favorite videos of this channel was when Mike changed his opinion on ffv. I also still have an hour to go on this but really wanted to say something now before i forget! Love the discussion especially on language!
Great summary and very interesting developer/themes section. Well done as always. Hopefully in the future you can can tackle automata as well.
Awesome! I was hopeing for something like this. Love the game.
I love the character interactions in this game a lot. Automata was an awesome sequel but I was a lot more attached to Nier’s personal journey and his friends’ traumas than the existential escapades of YoRHa. Weiss, Emil and Kaine were just such good companions with depth akin to a classic Final Fantasy game. Can’t wait for more vids.
How is it that I am just now finding this outstanding podcast?
I just discovered it from the Xenogears episode 1 being recommended to me. I clicked and watched because Xenogears is easily in my top 10 (maybe top 5) games of all time. From that first episode I quickly learned I watched it not only because I love Xenogears, but because the podcast was so well produced with excellent research into the topic, and the hosts having very interesting and thought provoking input on the subject matter.
Now I see that not long ago they have already covered ANOTHER of my top 10 games of all time in Nier....WHERE HAVE I BEEN!?
Hey, guys! I'm loving the setup. I discovered your channel a couple of years ago now and have listened to the majority of your podcasts and I read along with 'The Last Wish' (you may remember a comment I left on one of those vids).
This is exciting. I had heard so much about automata that I decided to install it on Xbox Game Pass and instantly fell for it, though I haven't gotten that far yet as this video convinced me to get the Replicant remaster/remake and I'm lovong that too. I'll be playing along and I look forward to hearing more on your thoughts next time!
Just got all the endings in Replicant. Very excited to see how the discussion breaks down in the coming months. It's gone down as a personal favorite game of mine.
Fantastic discussion as always! I've never played Nier, and probably won't get to the remake for a while yet, but listening to support the channel. Hearing you guys talk about it definitely makes me more interested in checking the game out, though! =D
Great stuff as always guys, I'm pretty sure most people say this but following you on this one is a bit grey for me. I'm so invested in this game despite not having played it so I think I may have to catch up later and push myself to finally play the damn thing haha. I shall consider this first episode an inspiration and salute you on my way to play it!
Great vid guys!
I love this new podcast format, and can't wait to watch these. But I don't want to watch this series until I play the game fully and form my own opinions. I love what you're doing though, I preach about this channel to my friends
1:07:13 didn't they hate final fantasy 8 words in the intro but this gets a pass why?
awesome discussion, dudes!
One thing I liked about the dialogue in between/during battles and side quests is that I never had to worry about leaving an area and missing out on the dialogue. That’s a practice I hope more games adopt.
Speaking of German direction... At the start, the two bosses’ that are guarding Yohna are named ‘Hansel’ and ‘Gretel’ respectively.
God, I love these podcasts. You guys don't hold back.
Thank you so much for this deep analysis! I'm not satisfied with surface level reviews I just love picking a story and characters apart and seeing how they work! 💖
Oh this is going to be a good one.
I played Gestalt on my PS3 2 years ago.
I absolutely LOVE this game.
I'm playing through the replicant remaster and greatly appreciate this podcast as additional material
On this Podcast late, I just finished Nier and the book Nier uses in the prologue was actually not Weiss, it was Noir
"Lunar" sounds like "Solar" as in "lunar base" and "Gestalt" is pronounced "Geh."
I had to rewind you during your conversation about Devola singing the “Song of the Ancients” because I was just paying attention to the music….
Loved the podcast. I have this game near and dear to my heart, watched the gestalt version on a letsplay on youtube and ever since i've been in love with the writing of games yoko taro is involved with. 100% the remake a few weeks ago. The new ending is great and I'd love to hear what you guys are gonna talk about the endings, can't wait for the next video!
I love it, I don't remember games much lately, eventhough I have played them even few months ago. But listening to you guys I just visualize the whole thing and everything comes back to me, so I don't have to play the whole thing again :). But it is quite possible, that I will try the new version after I will go throught the whole thing with you. Thank you, Resonant Arc rocks.
Isn't the whole tendecy towards the german words in translation driven by the german undertitle (Gestalt)? It makes perfect sense to me in this way.
And I have to say, that I missed Grimoire Weiss character in Automata. I was laughing a lot during Nier. All the dialogues with Weiss are so funny but there wasn't anybody like him to give me a clever remarks while running all around the world. I think it worked so well - funny dialogues in contrast with this super dark world where everything ends up in the worst way. (Like that quest with missing mother.)
I just finished Nier Replicant and this is exactly the video series I needed
They extended some of the music in some extent in the remaster. Either with instruments or small extra 'words'.
Never played either of these games, but I'm excited to see you guys break this down! A friend of mine gave me his copy of Nier Automata, so maybe I'll be more interested in checking that out after this!
go play them they are good i dare to say more than FF
@@xMysticxbutterfly nier is better then the ffs past 10.
if anything both nier games were a bright spot in what has been a decline in jrpgs since the hd era started.
@@megamike15 exactly
Here is something VERY interesting. So in the US version of Gestalt, or the version we got here it is the empire state building, however, the Japanese version of Gestalt still has it as the Tokyo Tower. There is also no Japanese dub of Gestalt, the Japanese version on 360 uses the English dub. Everything is the same except for the Tokyo tower as far as I can tell. Same timeline as the US release, and everything.
Honestly, I know that Taro has said that they are all part of a cycle, but it only makes sense for the different versions to be different timelines. In some timelines, Nier is a dad, in others, he is her brother. In some, the opening is in New York, in others it is Tokyo.
I like to think Bro-Nier and Papa-Nier are father and son, and depending on who you play the other person died before the game begins.
Based on what we saw in Drakengard 3 I think they're both alternate timelines and happen sequentially. There's a repeated cycle of an infection of some kind from another world destroying the Earth. In Drakengard it was Cathedral City, which was a white Tokyo, then the Queen Bee infects the Tokyo from Nier, but where did the original Cathedral City come from? Probably from yet another Earth that was infected by something, in that case it seems it was the White Flower. The events repeat in multiple Earths, one after the other.
There's probably multiple previous Earths where the infection happened in London, New York, Paris or Germany, based on the different building shown in the opening, and in those cases Nier was a different person.
Great job guys, I loved Casin's points on language and localisation, I always find that fascinating.
Also, I love that you take the games seriously, but in a good way. Like if you're going to take the time to analyze it, then you're going to analyze it properly and not just dismiss things with comments like "It's just a game" or "It's just fantasy".
I also love the length, I always listen when I take my baby out for a walk or if I'm driving. By far my favourite content to listen to
Re: Devola's diegetic music -
As I'm going back to catch up on earlier episodes I just wanted to mention, not only do the vocals fade in and out with your proximity to Devola as you move around the area, but the thing that really caught me (and I'm surprised you didn't mention) is that the vocals cut out immediately whenever you start a conversation with her, and return when the conversation ends. It really reinforces the music as a diegetic element. Devola is meant to be the one singing "in-universe," evidenced by her being unable to sing when she's busy talking to you.
So close to your goal on patron. Im going join. Soon we have our weekly show lol
Enjoyed listening to this as I played through the Nier Relicant Remaster! It was interesting hearing about the development process of the DrakeNieR games.
I really love the concept of a JRPG bookclub and how y'all go through an extensive history of the background of the game and themes being talked about. Excited to hear more in the future!
1:30:10 so small note, even at this stage it does mention it is not the same book. as nier (at least in replicant) during the prologue says explicitly "so this is the power of the black book" as you start gaining powers. So there is already a hinted dichotomy of black and white books.
Oof dying to watch these but gotta play the game first. Excited to come back to it though. Good luck with this series! Hopefully it continues the upwards success of the last one!
The importance of language in Nier is amazingly subtle but still the engine behind all the character dilemas, glad you touched it and i would like to add something more about it.
Language is not only something that divides cultures and feeds war and conflict, Nier is screaming to us the power of words over EVERYTHING.
But mostly and mainly the ABSENCE of words. Nier often shows us how humans fail to word out their emotions or even how the wrong use of words can damage someone's humanity and ultimately their soul.
I'm sure some of you have heard before that: "If you want something to become REAL, you have to name it first." or "The act of naming authenticates an entity's existence."
Well it's not a coincidence that in Nier Automata language is no longer that relevant since humans are now extinct and there is no more room for human feelings, doubt and interpretation, just the mimicking of real human feelings. Note how Androids are numbered.
Amazing series.
Thank you for this
Excellent. Algorithm up!
Casen touched on the idea of profanity in Japanese being based on something different than vocabulary. My assumption is that he was alluding to how there are entire schemes of inflecting verbs, ways of ending sentences, and sets of pronouns in Japanese that are markedly, especially rude. (Watch anything with Yakuza or any other really rough type of character and you'll hear such speech.) Such ways to express rudeness are built into the inflections/affixes rather than simple word choice (though word choice is a factor as well--especially the aforementioned pronouns). To me it seems that such speech isn't "bleepable" because, while rude to the target of the speaker, there's no single word of it that necessarily offends the audience's sensibilities in the way that a "curse word" does in English. Thus the idea that Japanese "does not have curse words." But to me, it's not that simple.
From my experiences with Japanese media, bleeping words (or whole phrases) for those specific words being offensive and thus deserving of censorship does happen. Sometimes words are bleeped for comedic effect (censoring a copyrighted character's name for example), but sometimes the words being censored are legitimately uncouth (or at least perceived as such by a general audience). Usually they are words for certain parts of anatomy or words pertaining to sex acts.
I would need to look up the specific NIER scenes in the Japanese voice-acting to be certain (I've only ever played NIER in English), but I would imagine that in any scene in Japanese where Kainé is bleeped she's alluding to destroying or mutilating certain pieces of anatomy or alluding to committing violent sexual assaults against whomever she's addressing.
Thank you for all your videos over the years, by the way, I love the in-depth analyses you've provided for various videogames and facets of storytelling.
Thanks for the insight! I speak Japanese but don't have much experience with hearing bleeped words (except for comedic effect, as you mentioned). We'll be addressing this again next episode for sure.
Going to have to play this now!
Love your podcast
That chill dad grin and slight head shake from Casen when Mike mentions waifus lol
Hey guys you should try to do an analysis for Valkyrie Profile - that would be amazing, with all the research that and the excellent job you do , it would be an interesting podcast
Man, I'm really gonna have to pick this up on steam now. Automata was fantastic
Alright y’all sold me on nier. I’m currently playing automata and am kinda on the fence whether I want to stick it out past the first ending. You guys make it sound like there’s is some really good stuff to uncover if you see the story through.
I'm 2 weeks late, but I hope you chose to continue your journey, I can understand someone being apprehensive during route A (shit, possibly route b aswell) but it is just so very, very worth it when it's all said and done. I hope you stuck with it, or perhaps give it another chance in the future.
In terms of story and getting a player to FEEL strong emotion, both games belong in a museum. Narratively speaking.
I recommend playing with the sound settings a little, I personally make the music a tad higher then voice and sound effects
Ive never played but im downloading it now to play along :)
I am literally shocked I did not realize the bit with the shades in the field. Yoko Taro giving me another reason to cry T.T
So I don’t know if this was adjusted for nier replicant remake but you mentioned Kaine animosity towards Nier when they meet, In that fight with Kaine she does not attack you until you attack her, she literally comes home sees someone rummaging through her shit, and when she tries to confront them she gets attacked
This is the first time I've played this game since my multiple playthroughs when Gestalt launched. I don't know if you discuss later game spoilers here, but I will watch this video after I play this one a bit. Btw, excellent work with the FFVIII series. So, I will be back lol ( I haven't gotten to Seafront or Junkheap yet)
Heck yeah boys
This is my favorite book club ever. :D
Happy to see you talking about something a little more obscure :)
As a 30 year old American from the Midwest that was brought up old shool your thoughts echo mine a lot in this podcast Mike. I am gonna look into getting this game next payroll. Keep up the great work!
i like how u two discussed the potential themes the game might have.
however, i will throw my own interpretation of the game's theme into the mix
"how far are you willing to go for a loved one?"
this is especially true during the second half of the game and the second playthrough i would say, but ties in nicely with what u two were saying.
loved the video,cant wait for part 2! :)
Thank you for putting this out. I've never really seen what the big deal is about Nier and this is probably be the best attempt to convince me to give it a chance.