I have a Tavor X95 with a lpvo in a 1.93 ADM mount it's a Strike Eagle 1-8x24 FFP and its nice but fun is over 9 lbs I believe. So prism is what I'm after. Just trying to debate and torn about magnification. My range is 0 to 200 but I'd like the ability to be easily out to 300. So 2 to 3x kinda makes sense. Any help on what you guys like? What works well on Tavor? It's more of a heads up shooting rifle.
I run the vortex Spitfire x3 gen 1 prism on my Tavor x95. It's definitely not ideal for CQB, but I love it for 25 - 200 yards. The eye box is great. The etched reticle is great and I can easily make it out without turning on the illumination. The brightness settings and the green / red option is nice. I've never had the opportunity to push it past 200 yards, unfortunately. I have Holosun red dot / magnifier combo on a different setup. If I'm looking for speed at CQB distances, I'll take the non-magnified red dot. If I'm looking to push past 100 yards, I like the Spitfire more. Between 25 to 100 yards, I personally don't notice much difference in my performance with either setup.
@@Doball9080 Ya prism X3 is a sweet spot for do it all. I'm in Canada and my X95 is my go to shtf rifle. So I want a optic to do 99% most yardage pretty much out to 300 ish
My Primary Arms 2.5x with ACSS reticle is my favorite piece of kit on any of my rifles. Never too much magnification but no problem shooting out to 300yds
I have the 3x primary arms microprism for one of my ARs and two of my AKs. To me that it really all I need to be able to reach out and touch something. Anything further I wouldn't even waste the bullets. Maybe eventually I'll get a true scope for my other AR.
@bert kilborne Yeah it has good eye relief in my opinion. It doesn't suddenly black out like some scopes do, but the circumference just gets smaller and smaller with a black ring around it.
I’m relative new to prism sights, I’m more of a red dot guy, but with my astigmatism only getting worse even with updated prescription lenses, they are my only hope for an usable reticle. The amount of info you managed to cram in 15 min is impressive. I really liked the adjusted FOV concept and the spread sheet is very helpful. Looking forward for your opinions on the new primary armas 5x micro prism. Subscribed.
This is an amazing video! Very informative straight to the point and delivered well! I just subscribed I see many more subscribers in your future keep this up!
Thank you for this very comprehensive review! Excellent job of presentation, I have astigmatism and this is exactly what I was looking for. Nothing like a comparison with a good spreadsheet and someone clear, these are the most useful videos. Otherwise the only sacrifice I don't want to make is the eye relief, I can't stand it.
Perfect timing for seeing this video. I've been looking at the 5x range from Burris and this gives me a good metric to compare what's available. Shooting 22lr Ar15 at 100 to 300 yards. But also a good reference for my other calibers.
I just snagged a monstrum raven 1.5x20 prism optic on clearance sale for $49.aside from wishing the eye relief was a bit longer,im quite happy with it.very clear optical with a bright green/red illuminated dot.good review man.
I ran a Monstrum 3x on my rifle for about 3 years. Wasn't terrible. This last Sunday I got and threw on a 5x from primary arms, and it has a 3 slot picitanny rail on top so i took the green Chevron rmr off my edc pistol and threw that on
Great video, great to see chart's. Monstrum company New Cyclops prism 3x w 6" eye relief is the one l'm considering. So far I've been practicing with P.A. 1x6x24 ACSS reticle which I like however the eye relief is not forgiving you have to be exactly right on. Before that Holosun 2moa 403r w/ h.s.3x very crisp clean out to 100 , also the H.S 510grn 2 moa big open reflex w/3x still good to 100 but I have to turn the brightness very low to see the 1/2 dot target I'm shooting at . I put the HS403r w/3x on my Tippmann Arms M4-22LR at 25yrds nickel size groups happy with that ! The 510grn was for the MK-111 which now is M4-16" , the P.A. is on another M4-16" the best I can get is 2moa but that's Me , when I'm at my best I can get on 1/2" dot at 50yrds. 3 out of 5 rds. I'm happy with that. I'm thinking of trying something new , prism 3 or 5x either P.A. or. Monstrum company New Cyclops 3x , less weight crisp 2moa . I realy like the ACSS but under 100 it's not needed.
I practically gave my gen1 away because it would not take a magnifier. The image would demag. It was like looking through binoculars backwards. But this is dope and PA told me they would trade mine as it was defective just about the time I took 4 boxes of 556 for it
I've been playing around with a Burris RT-3 recently, and it's quickly become my favorite optic. It's about the same size as the PA micro-prism, but with an integral mount that I think makes it a more stable platform. 3x is enough to pop golf balls at 100 yards easily.
Please make more videos like this. Your analysis is refreshing and sadly no one else seems to be making these kinds of comparisons. What about the Swamp fox Saber? What about other newer releases? I know the charts are already pretty busy but for those of us who think this way it's a must 😂
fantastic coverage. Subscribed! can't believe you only have 77 subs rn. Really great qualities. Considering actually having a microprism on an offset mount for a night fighting setup that can flex into a gpr context. That or a flip magnifier I suppose.
Thank you very much! You can try to use the high mount on the 1X and Unity Magnifier mount to help clear the NV goggle and keep the setup compact. Offset dots didn’t work terribly well for me under NV.
@@FlatlanderGear np my dude. That is true. The way I envision this is a high red dot as the primary optic in day/low light and a backup for passive aiming with nv. If I run a magnified optic as an offset, I can use that during the day for seeing further and touching it. I cannot see much need for magnification with night shooting I guess. Not sure what I would do with the opportunity, but I could possibly find utility in having the magnified and red dot zeroed differently. That wouldn't be possible with a magnifier behind the dot I guess
Primary Arms 2x will in fact do 4” or 4.5” eye relief all day without breaking a sweat; the official stats for that prism understate that figure pretty significantly. It’s the 2x’s big strength (and it sacrifices FoV to get it)
@@FlatlanderGear Sure, but still it seems Primary Arms is more cautious about not claiming more eye relief than they actually give compared to other manufacturers.....it is, after all a somewhat subjective measurement because there is a range where the view kinda sucks but is technically still usable.
In my humble opinion, when you have something at 3x fixed or greater, you might consider 1-6x LPVO or even 1-8x or 1-10x. As you will get 1x functionality, albeit not as good as red dot, but you will have ability to shift between. Fixed prism scopes are a niche use at higher magnifications, but LPVOs are VERY versatile, especially 1x to anything x at the cost of weight.
@Flatlander Gear sounds good. Lpvos are very deep convo From eye boxes to parallax, to finding good glass, to having good reticle and enough magnification. I tried over 10 lpvos now and settled on Primary Arms 1-10x SLX Griffin M10S reticle (SFP) But I tried way more expensive optics and they failed in many regards, such as 1x and fishbowl distortions. Vortex Razor HD 1-6 was worse optic at 1x than Vortex PST and Razor is 1500 bucks I look forward to it, but I can't be buying Trijicon lpvos, too expensive. That subject is deep! Chromatic aberrations, simply hazy glass, and plethora of other issues, even on expensive glass. Arrowhead by Swampfox had great glass, but disgusting fishbowl and horrendous eye box. Reticle choices for many manufacturers are kind of garbage. I really like my optic's reticle. But it is SFP, which I wish it was FFP THEN the subject of many of them having 1/2 moa adjustment per click. And not 1/4 moa as they should. Mine is 1/2 moa, I feel sad about it, but 1x is phenomenal at 34 mm tube and big objective lenses for lpvos. That video can be lengthy and educational for sure. Even I can have a full video to discuss now. I like your video approach. You remind me of thoroughness of C_does RUclips's channel
@@FlatlanderGear After trying everything from Vortex PST 1-6, to slew of Primary Arms LPVOs, Strike Eagles, and even Razor HD by Vortex, I realized that 1-10x LPVO from Primary ARMs was the best in eye box and length of engagement, even at 1x range. That reticle is amazing too. I bought M10s Griffin reticle. Razor HD was super clear, but fishbowl was pretty gnarly, and you think 1000+ USD scope would win it all. Nope.
Eye relief has never been an issue for me.... But eye box is a WHOLE other story. So many people fail to even mention this and is also what causes parallax issues to greatly widen. Also, if you want to push past 100 yards then you can't go wrong with an LPVO.
I think I mentioned this in my first video. A tighter eye box, though less flexible in positional shooting, will reduce (though not by design) error due to parallax. I’d also say even with the advent of LPVOs gaining popularity, Prisms still represent the fundamentals of glass optics design and use.
@@FlatlanderGear Yea, I will certainly give prism scopes the praise that they deserve. Personally I like a single device as far as optics are concerned and having a fixed optic that needs a piggyback RDS is a bit much for me. I was rocking RDS + magnifier for a very long time until I decided LPVO would better serve my needs.
Would love for you to take a look at Primary Arms 6x GLX magnifier, and Trijicon 3x MRO HD magnifier. Your guide is very comprehensive and great. Reminds me of how C_Does breaks down optic stats. Thanks again! I ended up with Primary Arms 1-10x SLX LPVO with Griffin M10s reticle. Loving it, with Criterion barrel.
Where are you sourcing your number for the Sig Tango 4 weight? The website says 22.2 ounces, and the red dot includes on top of it is 0.5 ounces. The weight of a AA battery is 0.7-1 ounces. I’m just not seeing the connection, unless you’re basing it off of the old discontinued sig bravo optic which no longer displays specifications on their website. Not to be combative, I was just confused.
I have decided on a 2x or 3x optic, my average distance without obstruction is from 130, to 1500 yards. I think 2x or 3x is good enough for me to protect my home and neighbors
Awesome video bro.... most don’t know the difference.... I’ve got the PA SLx3 with acts in it.... best one for my pocket... thanks for sharing. Just sub’d
Latest video touches on the PA 4X briefly. 2.5X is a nice choice out to 500 yards with the CQB-M1 reticle. Tried it on CZ Bren and enjoyed it quite a bit.
Even the solid Aimpoint looks like a smear now. Wtf.. must be a geezer. A holographic, scope, or prism are the only choices when this is the situation.
I personally believe a LVPO should be used on AR10 style rifles and Red Dots / 3x magnifier for AR15 rifles. That being said knowing your reticle on a red dot…..will allow you to make longer shots.
I’m with you there too I think. A Red dot on a full size .308 doesn’t quite feel right unless it’s a sub 13.0. A 1-8 or 2-10 just feels right on a SR25/AR-10
@@followeroftheway6930 I run the Primary Arms SLx 3X Micro Magnifier, which I did have to buy the SLx flip to side mount separately. The eye relief is not great, but expected with a magnifier and serves its purpose. Works great and looks great with the PA optic as well!
It's nice to get an explanation of the design compromises inherent to prism optics. Is eye relief also a decent proxy for eye box, or do the two someones not correlate?
Great overview! The Swampfox seems to offer great FOV without compromising eye relief too much- but you don’t really mention it. What are your thoughts? I need a new optic for my PRI Mark 12 Mod H and was intrigued by the UK’s SAS and SBS choice for their DMR rifles. They’re running the ACOG 6x48 with a red dot on top. Granted, the mod H is 16” barreled 5.56 gun and the Brit’s LMT is an 18” .308 but I was thinking a 5x prism with a piggyback red dot would be great. (Can’t really afford an ACOG at the moment anyway). Again, Swampfix’s 5x prism looked appealing, as did Sig’s. Even the Primary Arms option is a good one. Any advice? My Mod H is already a pig- so weight isn’t a huge concern. FOV and versatility is.
Thank you and I'll try not to spoil too much. I will likely review the Trihawk in depth fairly soon. The reason I don't gush about it right away is because it's heavier than I would like for a 3X. It has great glass, the largest FOV in the field, and about the right eye relief to take advantage of the FOV though, which is why I'm looking forward to getting one to review. The UK's choice running the 6x48 is a tough one for me and it needs a piggyback RMR at a minimum. I think it's heavy, lacks the FOV, and has a high price tag (military depts don't really care). A Razor 1-6 is lighter, has better FOV, better eye relief, and is about 95% as durable imo. Since you can piggyback an RMR on this as well, I don't see sweeping advantages with a TA648 on a 16" SPR or even a .308. I think the 5X Spitfire is great on a mid to light 5.56 and a light .308 if you use a stronger PA swept back mount. If you don't care about weight, the Swampfox Saber claims about 31ft which is also up there with the Trihawk in NormFOV. Again depends on mission. If you plan to use NV, the Bravo5, Spitfire, and PA will work well because of piggyback. If you are purely daylight and don't care about weight, I'd rank Saber > Bravo5 > Spitfire > PA. I would just make sure to look through the Sig and Swampfox to find the better glass and to check how forgiving the eyebox is.
You could also get a steiner t536, I have the 4x prism and it is schott glass like an acog and a solid reticle and illumination. I’m sure the 5x is great too
@@youngmonkey2504 I may try and do a review of the T536. Initial impressions though is that the German Glass is nice. The optic is about on par in every other way with the 5X like weight and FOV. I agree with your assessment on the reticle. As for the 4X, I'm not 100 sure if the specs were 100% the same as on 5X. It looks like the FOV spec should be bigger no?
Do you have any experience with 300 blackout? I am building an 8inch ar15 to be used for hunting and as sort of liberty rifle. Im getting mixed messages about the affective range of 300 blackout. I think ill primarily use it around 200yds but it would be fun to be able to go out 500 occasionally at the range. What fixed magnification would you choose?
I’ve played with it a bunch. Effective range really depends. You don’t have a terrible amount of energy at 500 yards with supers from 110-150gr but it’s still enough for plinking steel, maybe even out to 600. You can use a 2.5-5X quite easily to that distance if your mil scale or BDC will accommodate it which most will for a 125gr doing 2400ft/s or so. The PA 2X Glx is a popular choice as well.
I bought the PA 5x thinking it would be a great optic for 200 and in but the reality is, the eye box is really tight, and it's frustrating to use under 100 yards. So I wish now that I had just bought a used Vortex PST 1-6. The 5x is still a chunky optic, so the weight penalty is not that noticeable, and the usability of a 1-6 so far surpasses the 5x as far as eye box and--the most disappointing-- field of view. The reason this glass sucks inside 100 yards is the FOV feels like looking through a magnified Pringle can. At least the glass is good and the reticle is nice (basically a TA31 chevron with better rangefinding.) I think I would rather go with a PA 3x since I'm not taking shots past 100 often enough.
Yeah, the PA 5X was decent when it came out years ago and wasn't too heavy. Once the Spitfire came out, it blew it out of the water being 10.3oz. The new 5Xs from Sig and Swampfox will have very large FOVs but are still 10oz heavier than the PA and twice as heavy as the Spitfire. As for the Viper 1-6, i really liked the glass on mine but I sold it because the 1X just wasn't good enough for me. Having a large FOV with an imperfect 1X was disorienting to me. As for the 3X Spitfire, try to look through it; I thought the reticle was way too small for me. The PA 3X MP and Spitfire 5X are about the perfect size for ranging and BDC.
@@FlatlanderGear I think the best option for me will be to try and save up, sell a couple things and go with an acog or better LPVO. Thank you for the advice!
Magnifiers are prisms, just without a reticle since they have a different application. The Juliet line is a magnifier line. The Bravo line is the etched prism scope line.
Left out the Eotech 5x magnifiers after they stopped making the 4x. My issue is distance to the magnifiers or fixed power optics caus the rail s further out. I dont want to have any shadow during recoil. Im thinking about a R&J combo with a 4XT pro and a 4x Juliet.
They may or may not have started releasing these as or just after I released this one. I definitely have some content on that coming soon but the short answer is that length of pull or whether or not you run BUIS is going to affect magnifier choice significantly. I’m a big fan of the Juliet4 as well and it will play a part in some videos soon
@@FlatlanderGear Buis make little sense since I use an AUG with a short rail atm. There is less sight radius than on an mp5k. Maybe you can add some trouble shooting options like offset mounts flipped. Sadly a lot of mounts cost as much as mid rds. A split magnifier with 3x and 5x(6x) is so far not in sight. At the same time cases of 'I had no time to flip the sights up.
I've been debating on if i want a fixed power prism or an LPVO. I have an astigmatism as well as being near sighted so I is a little difficult with my eyesight to shoot past about 300 accurately without magnification, but i still want to be able to use the gun up close in cqb distance so I'm kind of more leaning towards an LPVO. I've heard about the benden aiming concept but ive not been trained in using it so for me an LPVO will be a bit easier having the ability to turn down the magnification to 1x but still be able to go up to 6x when taking a longer shot. And with me being near sighted i will have a better ability to ID my target at distance a lot better. Ive tried to find a video of someobe going into detail in how to do this benden aiming concept but i can't find a video for it.
Lots of Burris’ prisms have fairly competitive features. As for the 1X Spitfire, it may not work well with some magnifiers but as a stand-alone optic, it works fine.
You got the weight of the TA31 wrong. The weight of one with a mount is right around 14oz-15oz depending on the mount. The acog itself is right out 9.8oz or something like that. Also, the TA31 eye relief and eyebox is much more usable than you make it sound. You At 4" away from the eyepiece on a TA31, you still have the same FOV as a TA33. The point is that it allows you to have a massive FOV when you want it, and smaller FOV (but a still bright visible glowing reticle you can use with occluded sighting or BAC) for closer range or quick aquisition. And then when you want the really long range stuff, then you have the time and luxury to kept up real close to that eyepiece
@@rondobrondo 15.8oz is directly off of the Trijicon website so I don’t think that it being measured lighter on someone else scale with different mounts should be a negative. At the end of the day, a bare TA31 may see a carry handle which is usually heavier than stock and name brand mounts. And I agree with your method of leveraging field of view and BAC at different distances. I agree so much, that it pops up multiples times in this video and others :)
@@FlatlanderGear They're my go to for prism scopes. Same as the burris RT6 1-6 lpvo( my favorite lpvo) it you get a chance, check either out. I've tried PA, vortex, etc and both are my go too. Nive video 👍🏼
I’m honestly stuck between the 1x and the 3X primary arms prism, I feel like with a 3X obviously, it would be better at distance, but I wouldn’t perform up close? I’m on a tight budget so I can only get one. If anybody here owns both of these could you please give me your feedback, it’s going on my primary shtf/ home defense do all m&p sport 2
The question becomes how close and how far? If you do the 1X and your eyes are good, you can work out to 0-200 yards well but your target ID is more difficult at distance. If you get the 3X, you can use both eyes open shooting up close with less accuracy, and out to 600 yards at distance. The 1X works better under NV as well if you’re thinking of using it.
@@FlatlanderGear dude, lots of great value, I'm sure! I was simply listening (while driving) and it was a challenge. For most folks, maybe not a problem?
556 is a turd after 200 yards and against modern armors. plus wind is a factor after 10 feet--no really. There is a reason why the military is dumping it and should have post Vietnam, but doubled down. the whole prism world revolves around 556. 308 and the coming calibers have long since been ignored. what say you?
Depends on the armor, the load and the distance. Some M855 and M855A1 still pierce ‘Level IV’ helmets at 600 yards. Most 5.56 reticles scale nicely towards .308 so I don’t think it’s much of an issue; just a matter or making sure the construction of prisms is strong enough for the recoil of light .308/6.5 rigs.
Low quality prisms lie about their magnification. There's no way the Primary Arms 3x I have is actually 3x. The acog I have that is 3x is definitely 3x however.
@@FlatlanderGear Because I own both and have compared them side by side by while aiming at objects. The Primary Arms just doesn't have the same magnification as my ACOG despite both being 3x. As a matter of fact I had to double check when I first looked through the primary arms because I thought maybe they had sent the wrong one by mistake. But nope, it actually was the "3x" model. It felt like a 2x at best. And I'm very familiar with what 3x should look and feel like simply because almost all of my hunting rifle scopes start at 3x. Which is a shame because I really like their reticles and other aspects about their scope. But the glass clarity and magnification leave a lot to be desired. You get what you pay for.
I just bought another 3x pa prism. Honestly on a 16” it’s perfect. I can go to 300yrds on a man sized steal plate and do both eyes open for close. The pa 3x seems to be better than the ta-11 in every way except the track record but mine has been in my car for a year getting hot and cold all the time and it’s held up just fine.
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I have a Tavor X95 with a lpvo in a 1.93 ADM mount it's a Strike Eagle 1-8x24 FFP and its nice but fun is over 9 lbs I believe. So prism is what I'm after. Just trying to debate and torn about magnification. My range is 0 to 200 but I'd like the ability to be easily out to 300. So 2 to 3x kinda makes sense. Any help on what you guys like? What works well on Tavor? It's more of a heads up shooting rifle.
Pinned
Gun not fun *
I run the vortex Spitfire x3 gen 1 prism on my Tavor x95. It's definitely not ideal for CQB, but I love it for 25 - 200 yards. The eye box is great. The etched reticle is great and I can easily make it out without turning on the illumination. The brightness settings and the green / red option is nice. I've never had the opportunity to push it past 200 yards, unfortunately. I have Holosun red dot / magnifier combo on a different setup. If I'm looking for speed at CQB distances, I'll take the non-magnified red dot. If I'm looking to push past 100 yards, I like the Spitfire more. Between 25 to 100 yards, I personally don't notice much difference in my performance with either setup.
@@Doball9080 Ya prism X3 is a sweet spot for do it all. I'm in Canada and my X95 is my go to shtf rifle. So I want a optic to do 99% most yardage pretty much out to 300 ish
I really like my Primary Arms SLX 3x. They recently released a 5x I'd love to get my hands on. I recommend checking these 2 out.
Extremely substantive video. Should have 650k views rather than 6.5k.
Thanks.
Dzięki Kamil! More to come soon!
This is one of the most informative and excellent videos on optics I've ever seen. Very well done and I learned a lot!!
Thank you very much!
PSA’s 3x ACSS is the answer. Enough magnification to be better than a red dot. But low enough to still be quick and useable closer up.
It definitely comes very close. I’ll cover more in my next review video
I see a lot of potential in your channel, you're production quality is awesome for the size of your channel, keep up the good work.
Thank you very much!
Phenomenal info and presentation. I am here to geek out on all the numbers. Keep it coming!
More coming up soon!
The Steiner MPS comes with a Doctor plate that will fit right on the Spitefire 5x for those who want to know
Best explanation ever on fov, optics and options. Well done!
My Primary Arms 2.5x with ACSS reticle is my favorite piece of kit on any of my rifles. Never too much magnification but no problem shooting out to 300yds
I tried one before and liked the overall package. Surprisingly fast.
@@FlatlanderGear yes it is,great piece of kit for $200 and fits on any ACOG mount too
Watching your video is like taking a Master Degree class for free.
🙏🙏🙏
One of the most knowledgeable and on point videos I’ve seen on the subject. Awesome job brother. You have a new subscriber
Thank you very much ❤️
Excellent video, the information is very useful and presented in a manner that is easy to understand and utilized. Thank you!
Thank you!
No nonsense info-packed video, thanks!
Thank you
I have the 3x primary arms microprism for one of my ARs and two of my AKs. To me that it really all I need to be able to reach out and touch something. Anything further I wouldn't even waste the bullets. Maybe eventually I'll get a true scope for my other AR.
I certainly feel that way about mine so far. That will be the next review as well as some high Mag scopes coming up.
I'm looking forward to getting my PA 3X Micro Prism
I'm hoping that the eye box is easy to get used to after my 1X
I love mine! It’s on my go to rifle!
@bert kilborne Yeah it has good eye relief in my opinion. It doesn't suddenly black out like some scopes do, but the circumference just gets smaller and smaller with a black ring around it.
@@michaelmcatee221 Nice!
Thank you for doing this video! Excellent presentation!!
I’m relative new to prism sights, I’m more of a red dot guy, but with my astigmatism only getting worse even with updated prescription lenses, they are my only hope for an usable reticle.
The amount of info you managed to cram in 15 min is impressive. I really liked the adjusted FOV concept and the spread sheet is very helpful.
Looking forward for your opinions on the new primary armas 5x micro prism. Subscribed.
Great explanation and a must-view for anyone considering a prism optic
Thank you
This is an excellent breakdown. Superb job 👌.
Thank you!
Another masterclass video again, keep it up !
This is an amazing video! Very informative straight to the point and delivered well! I just subscribed I see many more subscribers in your future keep this up!
Thank you very much man!
Thank you for this very comprehensive review! Excellent job of presentation, I have astigmatism and this is exactly what I was looking for. Nothing like a comparison with a good spreadsheet and someone clear, these are the most useful videos.
Otherwise the only sacrifice I don't want to make is the eye relief, I can't stand it.
Thank you very much!
Wow! Amazingly researched and put together. Instant sub from me! Keep this up and you’ll be popular in no time my friend
Great job breaking it down
Perfect timing for seeing this video.
I've been looking at the 5x range from Burris and this gives me a good metric to compare what's available. Shooting 22lr Ar15 at 100 to 300 yards. But also a good reference for my other calibers.
I just snagged a monstrum raven 1.5x20 prism optic on clearance sale for $49.aside from wishing the eye relief was a bit longer,im quite happy with it.very clear optical with a bright green/red illuminated dot.good review man.
Monstrum review coming soon
I ran a Monstrum 3x on my rifle for about 3 years. Wasn't terrible. This last Sunday I got and threw on a 5x from primary arms, and it has a 3 slot picitanny rail on top so i took the green Chevron rmr off my edc pistol and threw that on
Great video, great to see chart's. Monstrum company New Cyclops prism 3x w 6" eye relief is the one l'm considering. So far I've been practicing with P.A. 1x6x24 ACSS reticle which I like however the eye relief is not forgiving you have to be exactly right on. Before that Holosun 2moa 403r w/ h.s.3x very crisp clean out to 100 , also the H.S 510grn 2 moa big open reflex w/3x still good to 100 but I have to turn the brightness very low to see the 1/2 dot target I'm shooting at . I put the HS403r w/3x on my Tippmann Arms M4-22LR at 25yrds nickel size groups happy with that ! The 510grn was for the MK-111 which now is M4-16" , the P.A. is on another M4-16" the best I can get is 2moa but that's Me , when I'm at my best I can get on 1/2" dot at 50yrds. 3 out of 5 rds. I'm happy with that. I'm thinking of trying something new , prism 3 or 5x either P.A. or. Monstrum company New Cyclops 3x , less weight crisp 2moa . I realy like the ACSS but under 100 it's not needed.
I practically gave my gen1 away because it would not take a magnifier. The image would demag. It was like looking through binoculars backwards. But this is dope and PA told me they would trade mine as it was defective just about the time I took 4 boxes of 556 for it
This the 1X?
I've been playing around with a Burris RT-3 recently, and it's quickly become my favorite optic. It's about the same size as the PA micro-prism, but with an integral mount that I think makes it a more stable platform. 3x is enough to pop golf balls at 100 yards easily.
It’s priced decently and a good size. About middle of the pack I think.
Thank you for this little Video, very usefull
Glad it was helpful!
Please make more videos like this. Your analysis is refreshing and sadly no one else seems to be making these kinds of comparisons. What about the Swamp fox Saber? What about other newer releases? I know the charts are already pretty busy but for those of us who think this way it's a must 😂
More weaponized autism coming up
Very informative. Thanks for the video!
fantastic coverage. Subscribed! can't believe you only have 77 subs rn. Really great qualities.
Considering actually having a microprism on an offset mount for a night fighting setup that can flex into a gpr context. That or a flip magnifier I suppose.
Thank you very much! You can try to use the high mount on the 1X and Unity Magnifier mount to help clear the NV goggle and keep the setup compact. Offset dots didn’t work terribly well for me under NV.
@@FlatlanderGear np my dude. That is true. The way I envision this is a high red dot as the primary optic in day/low light and a backup for passive aiming with nv. If I run a magnified optic as an offset, I can use that during the day for seeing further and touching it. I cannot see much need for magnification with night shooting I guess. Not sure what I would do with the opportunity, but I could possibly find utility in having the magnified and red dot zeroed differently. That wouldn't be possible with a magnifier behind the dot I guess
Subscribed, can't wait to see more.
Primary Arms 2x will in fact do 4” or 4.5” eye relief all day without breaking a sweat; the official stats for that prism understate that figure pretty significantly. It’s the 2x’s big strength (and it sacrifices FoV to get it)
This is true. I’ve noticed this in the 2.5X as well
I feel like Primary Arms bucks the trend and underreports their eye relief instead of over reporting.
@@DkGaston it’s more like ‘minimum’ eye relief. They have a wide range of eye relief before you have eyebox problems
@@FlatlanderGear Sure, but still it seems Primary Arms is more cautious about not claiming more eye relief than they actually give compared to other manufacturers.....it is, after all a somewhat subjective measurement because there is a range where the view kinda sucks but is technically still usable.
In my humble opinion, when you have something at 3x fixed or greater, you might consider 1-6x LPVO or even 1-8x or 1-10x.
As you will get 1x functionality, albeit not as good as red dot, but you will have ability to shift between.
Fixed prism scopes are a niche use at higher magnifications, but LPVOs are VERY versatile, especially 1x to anything x at the cost of weight.
I’m working on an LPVO series so this stuff will come up from a few different perspectives.
@Flatlander Gear sounds good.
Lpvos are very deep convo
From eye boxes to parallax, to finding good glass, to having good reticle and enough magnification.
I tried over 10 lpvos now and settled on Primary Arms 1-10x SLX Griffin M10S reticle (SFP)
But I tried way more expensive optics and they failed in many regards, such as 1x and fishbowl distortions. Vortex Razor HD 1-6 was worse optic at 1x than Vortex PST and Razor is 1500 bucks
I look forward to it, but I can't be buying Trijicon lpvos, too expensive.
That subject is deep! Chromatic aberrations, simply hazy glass, and plethora of other issues, even on expensive glass.
Arrowhead by Swampfox had great glass, but disgusting fishbowl and horrendous eye box.
Reticle choices for many manufacturers are kind of garbage.
I really like my optic's reticle. But it is SFP, which I wish it was FFP
THEN the subject of many of them having 1/2 moa adjustment per click. And not 1/4 moa as they should. Mine is 1/2 moa, I feel sad about it, but 1x is phenomenal at 34 mm tube and big objective lenses for lpvos.
That video can be lengthy and educational for sure. Even I can have a full video to discuss now.
I like your video approach. You remind me of thoroughness of C_does RUclips's channel
@@FlatlanderGear After trying everything from Vortex PST 1-6, to slew of Primary Arms LPVOs, Strike Eagles, and even Razor HD by Vortex, I realized that 1-10x LPVO from Primary ARMs was the best in eye box and length of engagement, even at 1x range. That reticle is amazing too. I bought M10s Griffin reticle.
Razor HD was super clear, but fishbowl was pretty gnarly, and you think 1000+ USD scope would win it all. Nope.
The PA Cyclops in 1X and 3X are both great. I love both.
Absolutely agreed. I have more PA Prism reviews coming up.
@@FlatlanderGear I look forward to them. You have me considering the swampfox and 5x vortex.
Great overview Sir, this is very well done.
Thank you very much!
You missed the TA11. I.5 power best for close and out to 300 yards. Like the video
Should be covered in the video. The TA11 is a 3.5X. Did you meant the TA44?
Damn! You such a nice job. Thank you.
So all the 2023 hype now is the ACOG alternative... I wonder what 2024's hype will be.
It’ll just be eotechs sand magnifiers again
I chose my Steiner 5x (T536 with 7.62 BDC reticle for anyone curious) to put on my PTR-91 for the combat/Hunting applications. 0 regrets.
Out of curiosity, do you use this setup in the prone or offhand mostly. Curious about the overall weight.
@@FlatlanderGear Both, really. I practice both ways to get profiecient using the G3 platform.
Eye relief has never been an issue for me.... But eye box is a WHOLE other story. So many people fail to even mention this and is also what causes parallax issues to greatly widen. Also, if you want to push past 100 yards then you can't go wrong with an LPVO.
I think I mentioned this in my first video. A tighter eye box, though less flexible in positional shooting, will reduce (though not by design) error due to parallax.
I’d also say even with the advent of LPVOs gaining popularity, Prisms still represent the fundamentals of glass optics design and use.
@@FlatlanderGear Yea, I will certainly give prism scopes the praise that they deserve. Personally I like a single device as far as optics are concerned and having a fixed optic that needs a piggyback RDS is a bit much for me. I was rocking RDS + magnifier for a very long time until I decided LPVO would better serve my needs.
Very nice, much apprec
Would love for you to take a look at Primary Arms 6x GLX magnifier, and Trijicon 3x MRO HD magnifier.
Your guide is very comprehensive and great. Reminds me of how C_Does breaks down optic stats.
Thanks again!
I ended up with Primary Arms 1-10x SLX LPVO with Griffin M10s reticle. Loving it, with Criterion barrel.
I'm happy with PA 5X ACSS prism.
That one is still quite good.
Where are you sourcing your number for the Sig Tango 4 weight? The website says 22.2 ounces, and the red dot includes on top of it is 0.5 ounces. The weight of a AA battery is 0.7-1 ounces. I’m just not seeing the connection, unless you’re basing it off of the old discontinued sig bravo optic which no longer displays specifications on their website. Not to be combative, I was just confused.
Original Bravo4 weight is 14.8 or so. The new Bravo4 is closer to 22.2oz. I displayed the old weight due to its popularity.
I have decided on a 2x or 3x optic, my average distance without obstruction is from 130, to 1500 yards. I think 2x or 3x is good enough for me to protect my home and neighbors
I have a 2.5x review in the works. You might find it interesting.
Awesome video bro.... most don’t know the difference.... I’ve got the PA SLx3 with acts in it.... best one for my pocket... thanks for sharing. Just sub’d
No problem and thank you. Coming out with the 3X review as soon as time allows.
@@FlatlanderGear nice! Looking forward to it
This is a good video. Make more like this.
Great video. Subscribed. Any opinions on the PA 2.5X or the discontinued PA 4X. The 2.5 has been heavily discounted as of late.
Latest video touches on the PA 4X briefly. 2.5X is a nice choice out to 500 yards with the CQB-M1 reticle. Tried it on CZ Bren and enjoyed it quite a bit.
Good stuff right here! Subbed.
Thank you! I'll be sure to keep it coming!
Even the solid Aimpoint looks like a smear now.
Wtf.. must be a geezer.
A holographic, scope, or prism are the only choices when this is the situation.
Astigmatism is a witch
I personally believe a LVPO should be used on AR10 style rifles and Red Dots / 3x magnifier for AR15 rifles. That being said knowing your reticle on a red dot…..will allow you to make longer shots.
I’m with you there too I think. A Red dot on a full size .308 doesn’t quite feel right unless it’s a sub 13.0. A 1-8 or 2-10 just feels right on a SR25/AR-10
Who makes the Dr to rmr footprint adapter you're using to run the holosun on the vortex 5x?
4shooters.com/product/egw-trijicon-rmr--sro-holosun-407c--507c-adapter-mount-for-vortex-spitfire-hd-gen-ii-5x.html
@@FlatlanderGear thank you!!
Can the vortex 3x be used further up the upper like a primary arms 1x?
Yes but not as well in my opinion. Eye relief is significantly more sensitive
I run a 1x primary arms prism with a 3x magnifier when I need it. Despite the extra weigh, I never cease to feel badass when I flip it up 😂
I think the setup works extremely well! Glad you like yours!
What magnifier. And did it come with the flip mount or did you get it separate. If separate, which one
@@followeroftheway6930 Not sure who you were asking but I run the Vortex Micro3X
@@followeroftheway6930 I run the Primary Arms SLx 3X Micro Magnifier, which I did have to buy the SLx flip to side mount separately. The eye relief is not great, but expected with a magnifier and serves its purpose. Works great and looks great with the PA optic as well!
I am running PA SLx1 with the Holosun HM3x it works pretty good.. 👍
It's nice to get an explanation of the design compromises inherent to prism optics. Is eye relief also a decent proxy for eye box, or do the two someones not correlate?
I have a video on this exact subject coming up
Great overview! The Swampfox seems to offer great FOV without compromising eye relief too much- but you don’t really mention it. What are your thoughts?
I need a new optic for my PRI Mark 12 Mod H and was intrigued by the UK’s SAS and SBS choice for their DMR rifles. They’re running the ACOG 6x48 with a red dot on top. Granted, the mod H is 16” barreled 5.56 gun and the Brit’s LMT is an 18” .308 but I was thinking a 5x prism with a piggyback red dot would be great. (Can’t really afford an ACOG at the moment anyway). Again, Swampfix’s 5x prism looked appealing, as did Sig’s. Even the Primary Arms option is a good one. Any advice? My Mod H is already a pig- so weight isn’t a huge concern. FOV and versatility is.
Thank you and I'll try not to spoil too much.
I will likely review the Trihawk in depth fairly soon. The reason I don't gush about it right away is because it's heavier than I would like for a 3X. It has great glass, the largest FOV in the field, and about the right eye relief to take advantage of the FOV though, which is why I'm looking forward to getting one to review.
The UK's choice running the 6x48 is a tough one for me and it needs a piggyback RMR at a minimum. I think it's heavy, lacks the FOV, and has a high price tag (military depts don't really care). A Razor 1-6 is lighter, has better FOV, better eye relief, and is about 95% as durable imo. Since you can piggyback an RMR on this as well, I don't see sweeping advantages with a TA648 on a 16" SPR or even a .308.
I think the 5X Spitfire is great on a mid to light 5.56 and a light .308 if you use a stronger PA swept back mount. If you don't care about weight, the Swampfox Saber claims about 31ft which is also up there with the Trihawk in NormFOV. Again depends on mission. If you plan to use NV, the Bravo5, Spitfire, and PA will work well because of piggyback. If you are purely daylight and don't care about weight, I'd rank Saber > Bravo5 > Spitfire > PA. I would just make sure to look through the Sig and Swampfox to find the better glass and to check how forgiving the eyebox is.
You could also get a steiner t536, I have the 4x prism and it is schott glass like an acog and a solid reticle and illumination. I’m sure the 5x is great too
@@youngmonkey2504 I may try and do a review of the T536. Initial impressions though is that the German Glass is nice. The optic is about on par in every other way with the 5X like weight and FOV. I agree with your assessment on the reticle. As for the 4X, I'm not 100 sure if the specs were 100% the same as on 5X. It looks like the FOV spec should be bigger no?
This really helped
Heeeyyy! where did you find that offset at 15:16! I've been looking everywhere for a red dot offset for my PA 3x microprosm and that looks awesome
www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-mini-reflex-offset-mount-for-pao-microprisms-black
The swampfox 3x is their trihawk?
Yes
That channel name tho 🤣😂🤣😂
It rolls off the tongue for now but I may change the name soon.
Do you have any experience with 300 blackout? I am building an 8inch ar15 to be used for hunting and as sort of liberty rifle. Im getting mixed messages about the affective range of 300 blackout. I think ill primarily use it around 200yds but it would be fun to be able to go out 500 occasionally at the range. What fixed magnification would you choose?
I’ve played with it a bunch. Effective range really depends. You don’t have a terrible amount of energy at 500 yards with supers from 110-150gr but it’s still enough for plinking steel, maybe even out to 600. You can use a 2.5-5X quite easily to that distance if your mil scale or BDC will accommodate it which most will for a 125gr doing 2400ft/s or so. The PA 2X Glx is a popular choice as well.
@@FlatlanderGear thanks again for the response. Very helpful!
Nice.
Thank you ❤️
I bought the PA 5x thinking it would be a great optic for 200 and in but the reality is, the eye box is really tight, and it's frustrating to use under 100 yards. So I wish now that I had just bought a used Vortex PST 1-6. The 5x is still a chunky optic, so the weight penalty is not that noticeable, and the usability of a 1-6 so far surpasses the 5x as far as eye box and--the most disappointing-- field of view. The reason this glass sucks inside 100 yards is the FOV feels like looking through a magnified Pringle can. At least the glass is good and the reticle is nice (basically a TA31 chevron with better rangefinding.) I think I would rather go with a PA 3x since I'm not taking shots past 100 often enough.
Yeah, the PA 5X was decent when it came out years ago and wasn't too heavy. Once the Spitfire came out, it blew it out of the water being 10.3oz. The new 5Xs from Sig and Swampfox will have very large FOVs but are still 10oz heavier than the PA and twice as heavy as the Spitfire.
As for the Viper 1-6, i really liked the glass on mine but I sold it because the 1X just wasn't good enough for me. Having a large FOV with an imperfect 1X was disorienting to me.
As for the 3X Spitfire, try to look through it; I thought the reticle was way too small for me. The PA 3X MP and Spitfire 5X are about the perfect size for ranging and BDC.
@@FlatlanderGear I think the best option for me will be to try and save up, sell a couple things and go with an acog or better LPVO. Thank you for the advice!
Good info
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank YOU!
After quick look through the internet it seems that SG Juliet 5x is a magnifier, not a standalone prism scope. Am I missing something?
Magnifiers are prisms, just without a reticle since they have a different application. The Juliet line is a magnifier line. The Bravo line is the etched prism scope line.
Would you mind sharing this spreadsheet with prism specs?
Working on it. It’ll be a google doc.
@@FlatlanderGear that would be awesome! Great video btw
Left out the Eotech 5x magnifiers after they stopped making the 4x.
My issue is distance to the magnifiers or fixed power optics caus the rail s further out. I dont want to have any shadow during recoil.
Im thinking about a R&J combo with a 4XT pro and a 4x Juliet.
They may or may not have started releasing these as or just after I released this one.
I definitely have some content on that coming soon but the short answer is that length of pull or whether or not you run BUIS is going to affect magnifier choice significantly.
I’m a big fan of the Juliet4 as well and it will play a part in some videos soon
@@FlatlanderGear
Buis make little sense since I use an AUG with a short rail atm. There is less sight radius than on an mp5k.
Maybe you can add some trouble shooting options like offset mounts flipped. Sadly a lot of mounts cost as much as mid rds.
A split magnifier with 3x and 5x(6x) is so far not in sight. At the same time cases of 'I had no time to flip the sights up.
I've been debating on if i want a fixed power prism or an LPVO. I have an astigmatism as well as being near sighted so I is a little difficult with my eyesight to shoot past about 300 accurately without magnification, but i still want to be able to use the gun up close in cqb distance so I'm kind of more leaning towards an LPVO. I've heard about the benden aiming concept but ive not been trained in using it so for me an LPVO will be a bit easier having the ability to turn down the magnification to 1x but still be able to go up to 6x when taking a longer shot. And with me being near sighted i will have a better ability to ID my target at distance a lot better. Ive tried to find a video of someobe going into detail in how to do this benden aiming concept but i can't find a video for it.
I have a BAC video in the works.
@@FlatlanderGear I will keep an eye out for the video for sure!!
Swampfox 3x Trihawk for my .458 socom. I have astigmatism.
That’s a good choice actually. With a field of view like that, you will get back on target quickly with the .458.
thoughts on Burris 3x pris and Vortex 1x spitfire ?
Lots of Burris’ prisms have fairly competitive features. As for the 1X Spitfire, it may not work well with some magnifiers but as a stand-alone optic, it works fine.
'×' = 'power'.
Love the Jeep!
You got the weight of the TA31 wrong. The weight of one with a mount is right around 14oz-15oz depending on the mount. The acog itself is right out 9.8oz or something like that. Also, the TA31 eye relief and eyebox is much more usable than you make it sound. You At 4" away from the eyepiece on a TA31, you still have the same FOV as a TA33. The point is that it allows you to have a massive FOV when you want it, and smaller FOV (but a still bright visible glowing reticle you can use with occluded sighting or BAC) for closer range or quick aquisition. And then when you want the really long range stuff, then you have the time and luxury to kept up real close to that eyepiece
@@rondobrondo 15.8oz is directly off of the Trijicon website so I don’t think that it being measured lighter on someone else scale with different mounts should be a negative. At the end of the day, a bare TA31 may see a carry handle which is usually heavier than stock and name brand mounts.
And I agree with your method of leveraging field of view and BAC at different distances. I agree so much, that it pops up multiples times in this video and others :)
Can you combine a magnifying prism scope with a magnifier like vortex spitfire 5x + 5x magnifier to get 10x magnification
Pretty sure that doesnt work.
"Magnifiers" are for non-magnified optics like dots and holos.
@@ManDuderGuy ok
I will upload a short of this tonight
@@FlatlanderGear thx
@@FlatlanderGear nice
I have the vortex spitfire Gen 2 3× prism and like my Burris AR332 much better.
I hear good things about the AR-332 but haven’t been able to get my hands on one to try.
@@FlatlanderGear They're my go to for prism scopes. Same as the burris RT6 1-6 lpvo( my favorite lpvo) it you get a chance, check either out. I've tried PA, vortex, etc and both are my go too. Nive video 👍🏼
I went with a 69x and ended up getting farted on directly in the nose.
Some people like that
I’m honestly stuck between the 1x and the 3X primary arms prism, I feel like with a 3X obviously, it would be better at distance, but I wouldn’t perform up close? I’m on a tight budget so I can only get one. If anybody here owns both of these could you please give me your feedback, it’s going on my primary shtf/ home defense do all m&p sport 2
The question becomes how close and how far? If you do the 1X and your eyes are good, you can work out to 0-200 yards well but your target ID is more difficult at distance.
If you get the 3X, you can use both eyes open shooting up close with less accuracy, and out to 600 yards at distance.
The 1X works better under NV as well if you’re thinking of using it.
I’ll also add that if you get the 1X you can use the 3X magnifier later as well
Awesome video you still rocking the Spitfire 5x?
Yes, but I move it around a lot of different setups.
@@FlatlanderGear What’s your favorite arrangement?
your boy fresh.. lmao
You already know what it is
Is tha a shower curtain ?
How did you know?
15:22 what is that red dot mount?
www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-mini-reflex-offset-mount-for-pao-microprisms-black
Get an Elcan Specter DR 1-4.
Haha, I’ll get into the variable stuff in a very videos. The Elcan falls in a funny space between prisms and variables.
I'm sure lots of good info here but oh, the sound quality and uneven recording levels made for difficult listening.
I appreciate the feedback, my setup is rudimentary at the moment but I’m working on trying make it better soon.
@@FlatlanderGear dude, lots of great value, I'm sure! I was simply listening (while driving) and it was a challenge. For most folks, maybe not a problem?
@@tedmckey6914 New mic coming up for the long form videos. I think the audio quality looks more promising.
556 is a turd after 200 yards and against modern armors. plus wind is a factor after 10 feet--no really. There is a reason why the military is dumping it and should have post Vietnam, but doubled down. the whole prism world revolves around 556. 308 and the coming calibers have long since been ignored. what say you?
Depends on the armor, the load and the distance. Some M855 and M855A1 still pierce ‘Level IV’ helmets at 600 yards. Most 5.56 reticles scale nicely towards .308 so I don’t think it’s much of an issue; just a matter or making sure the construction of prisms is strong enough for the recoil of light .308/6.5 rigs.
Low quality prisms lie about their magnification. There's no way the Primary Arms 3x I have is actually 3x. The acog I have that is 3x is definitely 3x however.
Where have you seen this? I’d love to make a video about it if true and I have a few 3Xs to compare.
@@FlatlanderGear Because I own both and have compared them side by side by while aiming at objects. The Primary Arms just doesn't have the same magnification as my ACOG despite both being 3x. As a matter of fact I had to double check when I first looked through the primary arms because I thought maybe they had sent the wrong one by mistake. But nope, it actually was the "3x" model. It felt like a 2x at best.
And I'm very familiar with what 3x should look and feel like simply because almost all of my hunting rifle scopes start at 3x. Which is a shame because I really like their reticles and other aspects about their scope. But the glass clarity and magnification leave a lot to be desired. You get what you pay for.
@@FlatlanderGearhave you compared them?
I just bought another 3x pa prism. Honestly on a 16” it’s perfect. I can go to 300yrds on a man sized steal plate and do both eyes open for close. The pa 3x seems to be better than the ta-11 in every way except the track record but mine has been in my car for a year getting hot and cold all the time and it’s held up just fine.
Easily one of my top 3 magnified optics for a 16”
ruclips.net/video/ZuPyhPWNxxs/видео.html