Thank God for Bishop Barron underlying Jesus’s view of the urgency to prepare your future spiritually… that sense of urgency to think of your time after you are gone.
I think so, too. The manager acted out of quick desperation to save himself from starvation. His (dishonest) shrewd wit was raw survival. Jesus said wake up: if a criminal can think fast to secure his future, we should do the same to insure a relationship with God.
Pointed out the fact that corrupt people recognize what's going to happen and act accordingly. That Believers should wake up to what coming and act accordingly too.
I have a bit different PoV for this parable, and I'm interested in what you all think about this. From what i see, this parable isn't about forgiveness or being smart, but instead is the continuation of the previous passage on luke 15. In this case, Luke 15 talks about Jesus' respond torward the pharicees who protested at how Jesus welcome and eat with sinners, which was responded by three parables, the lost lamb, the lost coin, and the lost son, before then talks about luke 16. In this context, I feel like luke 16 talks more about the pharicees. The sinful accountant is the pharicees, the master is Heavenly Father, and other people are the sinners mentioned on luke 15. Which means, when the passage tells the story of the accountant helping the debt of others, it's talking about what the pharicees should do, which is helping and accepting the sinners instead. For me, this makes Luke 16's meaning closer to the story of "what you do for other, you do it for Me." Which is why the story ends with Luke 16:13 where Jesus explains how people cannot have two masters.
We keep forgetting that Jesus didn't speak in chapters and the authors of the scriptures didn't write in chapters so reading in chapters breaks apart single continuous thoughts and lessons. Thanks for pointing out that chapters 15 and 16 aren't necessarily separate lines of thought but probably are connected in a more fundamental way. 🙏🙏🙏
I like the idea that the unjust steward represents the Pharisees (or anyone in authority) who misuse their stewardship. He may have begun to realize that reducing the burdens of those he once oppressed benefits not only others but also himself. While his actions were still selfish, they marked the beginning of a shift in perspective-acknowledging that serving others aligns more closely with true stewardship. This reflects the broader lesson that one cannot serve two masters: the steward had been serving his own ego and sense of undeserved authority, but his transition, however imperfect, hints at the value of recognizing service to others as a higher and more meaningful path.
When I left a company I had worked for over 27 years and got shafted by them. One of the last things I did was put several employees down for training which would better their careers. In the short term it benefited the employees and my old bosses. Long term it helped the employees move to better employers and my old employer lost out. Sometimes you can do something that looks to benefit your oppressor but long term you win.
What is this? The good doctor is teaching the gospel of Christ?! Good Lord!!! May it bring peace to the people and give us all hope that Christ has not been forgotten. The forgiveness of sins was His purpose. Praying we all find a way to separate the wheat from the chaff - understanding it is all in his hands.
He's been a Christian his entire life but just didn't know what Christianity was until recently. All empathetic compassionate kind reasonable just honorable individuals are Christians.
Jordan Peterson is a very refreshing voice of reason speaking out there. We need to encourage and educate our young adults who have been led down the wrong path.
@@CJRock-xn5qfI struggle with forgiveness myself for various reasons I won't go into. I have no doubt Christ would prefer I forgive even at person risk an harm. I doubt my conviction in doing so. I'll pray on it more.
It’s rare Christ offers his own summation of a parable (except when the disciples ask later!), but no one brought it up. He says the wealth of this world is tainted and unrighteous, but it’s our duty to take it from abstraction and convert it into something good by making friends and doing good with it. This is the opposite of what the culture teaches i.e. store up as much as possible through the stock market so you can cease working and live a life of pleasure in retirement. We shouldn’t participate in the hoarder economy. Christ is saying to instead invest in your friends, make productive use of your money NOW by starting businesses and loaning to people without interest as an example. Links perfectly to the parable about the man who built more storehouses
I believe you have presented the meaning succinctly and accurately. What seems to stump the panel is the term "unrighteous wealth," which they overlook, but which is crucial to understanding; that if we cannot use our (non-spiritual) worldly wealth to do good to our brethren (being faithful in the small things of this world) we will be unfit to enter eternal life. It seems to me to be an argument against hypocrisy, and at the same time an object-lesson in the purpose of our existence on earth. We are in a crucible, a proving ground, and must be good stewards of our material and spiritual agency while we live, otherwise we will not receive our eternal inheritance.
i dont agree with you but you are a thinker on this stuff. the title of the video good title i feel really confused now meh dont worry its just a ton of info and all related to one another so it can get confusing. so many parables. the sower, the talents today in my mind and now this one well i cant help it
Merry Christmas Jordan Petterson, and everyone, Christ loves you all so much. Thank you for helping me so much Jordan over the years, you're a gem, I started watching as a teenager, and im 23 now. May God bless you and your family greatly. Blessings from Houston Texas
👋🏼 Hi 😊 my son just moved to Houston (I know, it's a huge place but. .. ). I'd love to connect him w some Christian friends his age and get a referral to a church body in Houston for young adults! have u found a church body that u'd b proud to share?! feel free to DM me also. I'll try to keep a look out. I'm not on here often but regularly so bear w me😅 peace to u and your's, and a very merry CHRISTmas season 🎉
The key is in how he chooses to deal with them. Even in his shrewdness he understood that you need to lead with kindness and forgiveness to win people over. Remember, part of our calling is to lead with love. And Merry Christmas everyone 🎄
It's not about leading with kindness and love as a tactic to winning people over, though. It's because that's the way Christ wants us to do things, and then the results follow. If you put the results as your motivation, instead of following Him as your motivation, then you lose sight of what the whole point is. Which is to love Christ and follow Him with all of our hearts. I hope I've conveyed my message well. God bless you and merry Christmas
@roberjohnsmith The managers shrewdness shows that even he sees what God has made plain for all to see. That we should lead with love and forgiveness. It's not about manipulation as a tactic, it's about the way in which God has programmed us to function. ( The verse & me, are both trying to convey the logos here) God bless you as well, & I hope that clarified any confusion. And your point is still valid (parables)
Someone brought up that managers in those days often made their salary by increasing the amount owed, much like tax collectors. So the manager may have been forgiving the extra he'd up charged the debtors. He's forgiving them and building those relationships and at the same time the rich man praises him for sacrificing now in order to benefit later. Seemed like an interesting take
This guy gets it. Well Done @AnthonyFransella, smarter then all these dudes in the video. The business man isn't forgiving that of his master, but he is forgiving his own profit. Like as the tax collectors, they made an income by charging more from the citizens then what the government told them to charge. This business man was charging more, like an interest that is how he was going to make his income, and it is this personal income that he was forgiving.
There are many resources that talk of biblical culture. With archeological evidence to support it. There are many scriptures that require historical study as well. Like why Paul instructed woman in greece to be silent. Study into it. I had some very good Bible professors and teachers from Bible school. That would encourage people to research such things. The church lacks knowledge nowadays because of lazy study habits. If you want to learn information is out there. Like did you know in Holland in the 1600s. An smaller replica of the ark was made. It revolutionized the way ships were made. Dawkins would do good to discover how scientific and intelligent God is. I am 54 and have been an avid researcher of Bible and biblical culture since I was 10. I would encourage others to research. It's a wonderful pursuit.
The meaning of this parable is that, when a world is ending, like the modern world is giving way right now to whatever comes after, to use the pieces of the world that is ending to receive you into the new world that is emerging. ❤
The reason we are each like the dishonest steward is because we have each inherited this incredibly rich modern world. Through no ‘right’ of our own. All is a gift from God. And yet we still sin continuously, despite the gift. I am a member of This Little Corner of the Internet, and we are using the technology we have inherited to build real and lasting friendships.
I think this is connected with "When two or more come together in my name, I am right there among them". When we get spiritually deprived, when God withdraws His Grace from us, because we are misusing it, or taking it for granted, when we feel just about to fall from Grace, we reach out to someone, most likely, because of pride, we reach out to someone more vulnerable than us, someone who is in debt, someone who struggles in some way, with the pretense that we bring them some comfort. We do it for selfish reason ofcourse, and out of desperation, but it still helps the other person, it lifts them up, with such a debt, they will take anything. And in doing so we feel comforted as well. He is too proud to beg, that is why he reaches to the one who struggles with debt, to a vulnerable one, while he still acts like his master's fortune was his. It is our ego s survival mode, That is why many of us when we are in some kind of life challange, or in a meaning crisis, we go do volunteer work in prisons, or with homeless, or in poor countries etc. we think is a charitable act, and it is, but half of it is actually for ourselves, for what we receive in return, love from the vulnerable. Why it says that he forgave just half of the debt, I think it is because only God can really fulfill someone, only God can remove all the debt, therefore it will require at least two of us to reach a sense of oneness, a sense of fulfilment, which is the closest it gets in human experience to the Grace of God, yet it is not the Grace of God, it is the closest it gets to, yet it is a great environment, a great condition of our heart, a readiness for the Grace of God to pour in as well. God ofcourse sees that the Stuart s move is selfish, and immoral, but he appreciates that the Stuart has the vigilance and the eagerness to not lose that sense of onennes, he appreciates the Stuarts need for belonging, so although he is cheating, the Lord allows him the opportunity to see that joining together with someone, unknowingly we will find ourselves into a state of comfort. is better than to isolate in misery and get lost, it allows us to help each other to become available for Grace again. I think this parable could apply to marriage in a meaning crisis or joining a spiritual community as well.
To be more fair to the point, the dishonest manager wasn't necessarily dishonest... it was a report that got him fired. If the system is rigged and casting you out, THEN use the ill-gotten pieces of the rigged system as what they are, BECAUSE they aren't honest debts...
That is what every narcissist wants you to think of them too and for the exact same reasons. "Be grateful I have not made things worse than they are for you, yet. Because I can."
Wow! All of these men assembled here and yet, none of them get it! In short gist, Jesus was teaching this: Use your possessions and use your position in life to make friends who will one day welcome you into heaven!
Greatly appreciate that 1. Acknowledgement is being made by yourself.Dr P and those with you, that the text is sophisticated. That the original audience and listeners are not simpletons and understood commerce.and trade, employment, consequences of dishonesty the "value" of shrewdness at work, profit, nuance and metaphor enough to discover and receive some wisdom. In particular this wisdom was and which related to them because they identified themselves as people of God.( the decendents of Israelites, the Jews; a nation scattered) and their great nations identity and hope was for a restoration to the promised land by a long, awaited messiah. 2. That text from the bible is opened and being discussed with serious scholarly interest ,that there is some genuine wrestling with it going on.and that some truth may be discovered or learned. 3. That acknowledgement of multi faceted human interactions, giving a picture of the sociological make up at that time 2000yrs ago. Looks good from where Im sitting. Thanks!
Its definitely an interesting Parable. It usually reminds me of the "be wise as serpents but innocent as doves" scripture. I think Jesus is telling believers to use wisdom and craftiness even in Godly matters. Don't be unthinking and incompetent just cause you're holy, work out something!
I too was reminded of "be wise (shrewd - in some Bible versions) as serpents and gentle as doves". I was checking to see if anyone else was thinking the same. ““Listen carefully: I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; so be wise as serpents, and innocent as doves [have no self-serving agenda].” Matthew 10:16 AMP
The meaning is this. Like the manager didn't do a good job for his boss, we don't do a good job for God. Still everything we have is trough the grace of God, and basically His. Given our broken relationship with God, we are wise to share the things we received from God with others. So while we living our live, we do good.. may it be with the possessions and talents we received from God (and who is not happy how we do our 'job' in general).
Note that the man didn't shake down those in debt; he offered them a way out of debt, a bargain. Jesus did this for us, knowing that we could never fully pay for own sin, so He negotiated His own body to pay for our debts. We have to be willing to accept what He has offered for the deal to be complete! And the Father accepts His payment for all those who cannot pay.
I would say that the message Jesus is talking about here is the use of something that is bad, unrighteous to bring forth good, that is the practical shrewdness. What the manager did is wrong, yeah, but by doing wrong he brought mercy to those who were in debt.
I disagree with your interpretation. This is a huge stretch and not what the parable is talking about. The debtors were very likely able to afford their debt. Moreover, it was only partially forgiven. (Jesus paid our debt in full and we were never able to repay it ourselves, even in part) This parable is not about the debt itself but about the shrewdness of the manager. Jesus is calling us to be shrewd in handling our spiritual affairs also.
@mary_puffin That's not the point: religious people thought they could pay their debt to the master, but it was only partial. Moreover, see Matthew 7:9-11. He is saying that even a worldly father would not give his son something evil in response to a request, and how much more your Father in Heaven will give you good gifts. This is a similar type of parable, saying that even a corrupt man would arrange to forgive some percentage of debts, and how much more the Son would settle ALL of our debts! Those of you with eyes, open them.
I think the point of the parable boils down to this: You have a window of opportunity to make the most of what you have. What are you going to do with it?
All parts are one person. The manager is a survival trait of the person, and took on responsibility for the higher self. Once awareness arises that change is happening (karma), then their survival part manages the load that is good for him and good for others. Christ is showing the better way to deal with karma when in the time when accounts come up for payment. The intentions of the heart are with God. 🙏
The manager knew firsthand how his master became so wealthy. It was through what he was ordered to collect from the people. He gave a break to those in hopes of making himself look better, but in doing so, revealed himself as a dishonest man.
This helped me to grasp a bit of what this parable might mean. (Although I think they can mean different things at different times). It reminds me of Jacob and Esau- Jacob was shrewd and conniving, but at least he valued the firstborn’s inheritance and God’s blessing enough to persuade/wrestle them from another.
Happy celebration of the Son of God. Not an abstract psychological concept, both God the Father and His Son were and are real people. Spiritual beings of immense intelligence and power, all Glory to the Father and His Son my King who was given the Father's authority
That was apart of a promo that was filmed a while back I think. Last I heard as of a week or so ago Charlie Kirk says he is in the hospital still and can barely speak
I have always thought that what it meant is that we as believers are managers of his word. We should preach his word as we can manage, if we can manage to rescue half of what people owe to God, we do good for all.
Is Jordan one of the Midwives of Post-Modernity? With his psychological significance of the profound meaning in short Biblical verses and paragraphs? Like the advice to "replenish & subdue the earth?" Are these the words of a supernatural creator, or reality-wise words of the experientially wise writers of Genesis? Wise beyond a naively literal sense of words? Will Post-Modernity turn out to be about reality-wise perceptions of the World, beyond Words?
I worked for a company as a young christian where i had to be shrewd in doing things. I hate to turn up the radio so my boss would not hear me telling the truth. I used to make certain phone calls when my boss stepped out of the office as the truth was despised. This is being shrewd
Perhaps the manager paid the offset balance of what was owed. Is that not what Christ does for us? He covers our lack so we aren't held responsible for our full debt.
Jordan I wish you a very happy Christmas and a wonderful new year God bless you and family from phil in Thailand UK guy from Liverpool you talk more sence than anyone I know God bless
Dr. Peterson is right - it’s like a collections agent… if you get 80% of what’s owed it’s better than demanding 100% and getting 0%. I never thought of it that way but it’s right.
Wow, this excerpt more than any has me really interested to be hearing the entirety of conversations this panel is having about the New Testament scriptures.
📖 I've struggled with this parable probably the most in terms of it's real world application as most people aren't either rich or a manager. I understand the message as the dishonest manager took heed of the warning and acted in the benefit of others and himself long-term. The message of scripture is a real life warning and calls us all to act in accordance with the will of the Father
"Catena Aurea" has the interpretation right, and it sounds very much in line with the substance of Bishop Barron's understanding (the materialistic try to prepare for disaster through material means (and sometimes deceit); you, prepare yourself spiritually for the hereafter).
Should have stuck with kjv version. It changes it from a parable to a store. Leaves out verses and makes stuff more confusing. If someone can't understand a thee and thou we need go pray. It's on a 3rd grade reading level. Just being honest about my feelings on it. I like kjv better than the other translations but read em all. Read them all but believe 1. With the word of a king there's power only 1 was wrote by "gods silly vassel" king james.
Matthew 10:16 Jesus says "Be as wise (same Greek word as in Luke 16:8) as serpents, and as harmless as doves. Christians have a saying. Too heavenly to be any earthly good, and too worldly to be any heavenly good.
You have to read the rest of the chapter to understand it in context. Jesus was telling this parable in front of the jewish pharisees and wanted them to see that their love of money is evil and god cannot provide them with shepherding his flock if they care more about money than gods people. And that if they can’t handle something as simple as money, how can god trust them to handle shepherding his flock into righteousness and ultimately god’s kingdom.
The other option is take your neighbour to the law instead of God? Bible says no, I see it as why we need justice internally. Should the steward beat the debtor or ask for confession and repentance while getting them to acknowlwdge debt? Perhaps they will pay what they know they owe out of.... free will. Another interesting one. May God help us all. Merry Christmas.
I can solve it for you from a practical standpoint. There are situations when you are called off from the mission: in my case, divorce because my ex cheated on me and left me. We had to make a split of assets, he is making it difficult, not collaborating etc. We had a common flat with a tenant, a good friend of mine. My ex was not interested in anything, so when the tenant moved out, I reimbursed her money without reducing any for the damages she did. It was the only moral thing to do, as my ex deserved nothing for his behaviour. I wanted to save the friendship with my friend, even if that created me some financial problems with the flat. Moral choices are sometimes more subtle than we can think of.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?" - Jesus Christ People we choose to put on pedestal should represent the best of humanity, the very best amongst us. Leaders should be beacons of light and humanity, not corrupted greedy and selfish.
I have mulled over this parable forever.....Now it is a bit clearer. How can the dishonest person act in an immoral way and do good? It's a mystery. Thank you for letting us look at it with this group of learned and learning men. יוי
It is implied in the parable that the man was corrupt & wasted his master's money. If we assumes that, then what the man did is better than what he has been doing all this time. He is still skimming from his master, but instead of enriching himself, he enriches others. In this manner, the kingdom of heaven is not just a complete shift toward purity. But a baby step.
The manager also enriched his master while on the way out, i.e., he got caught serving himself at his master's expense, and also likely while taking from the others (advantages of them) at the same time, ...but on the way out he 1) lended his master ability to gain some favor with his indebted (maybe even saving some face, who knows), while the manager also then helped himself save some grace with those whom he had likely been heavy handed with (in charging and taking advantage from) ...and also thusly then perchance realizing that he had made a mistake ...in playing the cutthoat game of self-elevation required for advancement in the corporate world, he had lost sight of his conscience, i.e., taking it seriously he lost touch with his humanity, ...and this was his lesson. (kindof thing)
I have always wondered, perhaps heretically, whether this parable has been lost in translation/transmission. I've never quite understood it and sadly I'm no better informed for listening to this.
After hearing the parable. I believe the focused on what was a good rapport in the whole mess of failure and greed and laziness. You can only partially please everybody all the time and some people all the time and it’s not with a burnt bridge.
In the context, I believe this parable teaches to put RELATIONSHIPS above MONEY I believe the point of the story in its context is that the manager uses his position to make friends and that to God the way we treat people is more important than the money, that we should use material wealth to gain friendships, and give people favors
The Boss would find his dishonest clients by those who pay quickly. However, the acknowledgment of his managers' failures show his accomplishments as a leader.
I believe the best answer to such questions is; What do the church Fathers and Saints have to say about it? Ambrose of Milan Augustine of Hippo Basil the Great Bede Cornelius of Lapide Cyprian of Carthage Cyril of Alexandria George Leo Haydock Gregory the Dialogist John Chrysostom Theophilus of Antioch et al... Clarity has been gifted previously.
I had not heard of this parable before. So after listening to this video clip, I read it (all the way through verse 15). And in the context of how it ends (which was not on the table during this part of their conversation) it makes much more sense to me. Overall it seems to speak to a certain kind of integrity (are you of the world or of the light). And if you are living of the world, then do that well, and do it in such a way that you take care of yourself. This seems to have its own reward; however I am not clear what is meant in how it is translated here (I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.) But if you are of the light, then you do not want to play by the rules of the world. And in this sense, it was a major rebuke of the Pharisees, which are spoken of in verses 14 and 15. And here he speaks to them in a way that makes a direct comparison to the steward, and in this comparison casts the Pharisees in a bad light versus the man who "cheated his employer." To me, the context of the end of this passage is CRITICAL to understanding the parable.
Parables, metaphors, fables... what is to distinguish a story or metaphor from an actual event? Nobody thinks Psalm 137:9 or Numbers 22:21-39 refers to an actual event. So pls explain how the resurrection is referred to as an actual event, and not a metaphor.
I think the major point of this parable is that as the manager is getting fired he would rather be a slave in the managers house rather than to be completely put out of the company. So the manager exercises and authority granted to him by the master to forgive debts so that he is showing the mercy that he perhaps should have been showing and also preserving a space for himself even at the lowest level of the master's Kingdom/company.
It's like when you see someone who's cunning and smart. They may be immoral but you respect the intellect. There's something to be learned from that. It can be used in the right way.
Thank God for Bishop Barron underlying Jesus’s view of the urgency to prepare your future spiritually… that sense of urgency to think of your time after you are gone.
I think so, too. The manager acted out of quick desperation to save himself from starvation. His (dishonest) shrewd wit was raw survival. Jesus said wake up: if a criminal can think fast to secure his future, we should do the same to insure a relationship with God.
Pointed out the fact that corrupt people recognize what's going to happen and act accordingly. That Believers should wake up to what coming and act accordingly too.
Merry Christmas to you all
Merry Christmas Anna, GBY and keep you and your family safe and sound... In Jesus Christ name. Amen.
Happy New Years too. 💜 💛
I have a bit different PoV for this parable, and I'm interested in what you all think about this.
From what i see, this parable isn't about forgiveness or being smart, but instead is the continuation of the previous passage on luke 15. In this case, Luke 15 talks about Jesus' respond torward the pharicees who protested at how Jesus welcome and eat with sinners, which was responded by three parables, the lost lamb, the lost coin, and the lost son, before then talks about luke 16.
In this context, I feel like luke 16 talks more about the pharicees. The sinful accountant is the pharicees, the master is Heavenly Father, and other people are the sinners mentioned on luke 15. Which means, when the passage tells the story of the accountant helping the debt of others, it's talking about what the pharicees should do, which is helping and accepting the sinners instead. For me, this makes Luke 16's meaning closer to the story of "what you do for other, you do it for Me." Which is why the story ends with Luke 16:13 where Jesus explains how people cannot have two masters.
That's a pretty good one! Way to go man.
I like it.
That makes a lot of sense. God bless :)
We keep forgetting that Jesus didn't speak in chapters and the authors of the scriptures didn't write in chapters so reading in chapters breaks apart single continuous thoughts and lessons. Thanks for pointing out that chapters 15 and 16 aren't necessarily separate lines of thought but probably are connected in a more fundamental way. 🙏🙏🙏
I like the idea that the unjust steward represents the Pharisees (or anyone in authority) who misuse their stewardship. He may have begun to realize that reducing the burdens of those he once oppressed benefits not only others but also himself. While his actions were still selfish, they marked the beginning of a shift in perspective-acknowledging that serving others aligns more closely with true stewardship. This reflects the broader lesson that one cannot serve two masters: the steward had been serving his own ego and sense of undeserved authority, but his transition, however imperfect, hints at the value of recognizing service to others as a higher and more meaningful path.
When I left a company I had worked for over 27 years and got shafted by them. One of the last things I did was put several employees down for training which would better their careers. In the short term it benefited the employees and my old bosses. Long term it helped the employees move to better employers and my old employer lost out. Sometimes you can do something that looks to benefit your oppressor but long term you win.
what goes around comes around, good move.
Wisdom. Well done sir
Classy, good-natured, and shrewd. Well done
That's far better than tearing things apart on your way out. You were the better man.
Crypto convert lol
What is this? The good doctor is teaching the gospel of Christ?! Good Lord!!! May it bring peace to the people and give us all hope that Christ has not been forgotten. The forgiveness of sins was His purpose. Praying we all find a way to separate the wheat from the chaff - understanding it is all in his hands.
With the evil sent against himself by his own government he's had to reevaluate.
Peterson is an atheist
He's been a Christian his entire life but just didn't know what Christianity was until recently.
All empathetic compassionate kind reasonable just honorable individuals are Christians.
Jordan Peterson is a very refreshing voice of reason speaking out there. We need to encourage and educate our young adults who have been led down the wrong path.
@@CJRock-xn5qfI struggle with forgiveness myself for various reasons I won't go into. I have no doubt Christ would prefer I forgive even at person risk an harm. I doubt my conviction in doing so. I'll pray on it more.
It’s rare Christ offers his own summation of a parable (except when the disciples ask later!), but no one brought it up. He says the wealth of this world is tainted and unrighteous, but it’s our duty to take it from abstraction and convert it into something good by making friends and doing good with it. This is the opposite of what the culture teaches i.e. store up as much as possible through the stock market so you can cease working and live a life of pleasure in retirement. We shouldn’t participate in the hoarder economy. Christ is saying to instead invest in your friends, make productive use of your money NOW by starting businesses and loaning to people without interest as an example. Links perfectly to the parable about the man who built more storehouses
I believe you have presented the meaning succinctly and accurately. What seems to stump the panel is the term "unrighteous wealth," which they overlook, but which is crucial to understanding; that if we cannot use our (non-spiritual) worldly wealth to do good to our brethren (being faithful in the small things of this world) we will be unfit to enter eternal life. It seems to me to be an argument against hypocrisy, and at the same time an object-lesson in the purpose of our existence on earth. We are in a crucible, a proving ground, and must be good stewards of our material and spiritual agency while we live, otherwise we will not receive our eternal inheritance.
i dont agree with you but you are a thinker on this stuff. the title of the video good title i feel really confused now meh dont worry its just a ton of info and all related to one another so it can get confusing. so many parables. the sower, the talents today in my mind and now this one well i cant help it
Merry Christmas Jordan Petterson, and everyone, Christ loves you all so much. Thank you for helping me so much Jordan over the years, you're a gem, I started watching as a teenager, and im 23 now. May God bless you and your family greatly. Blessings from Houston Texas
👋🏼 Hi 😊 my son just moved to Houston (I know, it's a huge place but. .. ). I'd love to connect him w some Christian friends his age and get a referral to a church body in Houston for young adults! have u found a church body that u'd b proud to share?! feel free to DM me also.
I'll try to keep a look out. I'm not on here often but regularly so bear w me😅
peace to u and your's, and a very merry CHRISTmas season 🎉
The key is in how he chooses to deal with them. Even in his shrewdness he understood that you need to lead with kindness and forgiveness to win people over. Remember, part of our calling is to lead with love.
And Merry Christmas everyone 🎄
It's not about leading with kindness and love as a tactic to winning people over, though. It's because that's the way Christ wants us to do things, and then the results follow. If you put the results as your motivation, instead of following Him as your motivation, then you lose sight of what the whole point is. Which is to love Christ and follow Him with all of our hearts.
I hope I've conveyed my message well.
God bless you and merry Christmas
@roberjohnsmith The managers shrewdness shows that even he sees what God has made plain for all to see. That we should lead with love and forgiveness. It's not about manipulation as a tactic, it's about the way in which God has programmed us to function. ( The verse & me, are both trying to convey the logos here)
God bless you as well, & I hope that clarified any confusion. And your point is still valid (parables)
Someone brought up that managers in those days often made their salary by increasing the amount owed, much like tax collectors. So the manager may have been forgiving the extra he'd up charged the debtors. He's forgiving them and building those relationships and at the same time the rich man praises him for sacrificing now in order to benefit later. Seemed like an interesting take
Yes. He was essentially reducing his commission.
This guy gets it. Well Done @AnthonyFransella, smarter then all these dudes in the video. The business man isn't forgiving that of his master, but he is forgiving his own profit. Like as the tax collectors, they made an income by charging more from the citizens then what the government told them to charge. This business man was charging more, like an interest that is how he was going to make his income, and it is this personal income that he was forgiving.
That’s an assumption on your part for which there is nothing in the text tk suggest that.
@@WarofThoughtsyou do need to consider the issues of the time otherwise much of what is written makes little sense
There are many resources that talk of biblical culture. With archeological evidence to support it. There are many scriptures that require historical study as well. Like why Paul instructed woman in greece to be silent. Study into it. I had some very good Bible professors and teachers from Bible school. That would encourage people to research such things. The church lacks knowledge nowadays because of lazy study habits. If you want to learn information is out there. Like did you know in Holland in the 1600s. An smaller replica of the ark was made. It revolutionized the way ships were made. Dawkins would do good to discover how scientific and intelligent God is. I am 54 and have been an avid researcher of Bible and biblical culture since I was 10. I would encourage others to research. It's a wonderful pursuit.
Merry Christmas to Jordan and all his fellow scholars on the programme. You are doing great work and it's much appreciated.
The meaning of this parable is that, when a world is ending, like the modern world is giving way right now to whatever comes after, to use the pieces of the world that is ending to receive you into the new world that is emerging. ❤
I also think that’s the main point. But I think the second point is that Jesus is asking us to be shrewder.
The reason we are each like the dishonest steward is because we have each inherited this incredibly rich modern world. Through no ‘right’ of our own. All is a gift from God. And yet we still sin continuously, despite the gift. I am a member of This Little Corner of the Internet, and we are using the technology we have inherited to build real and lasting friendships.
I think this is connected with "When two or more come together in my name, I am right there among them".
When we get spiritually deprived, when God withdraws His Grace from us, because we are misusing it, or taking it for granted, when we feel just about to fall from Grace, we reach out to someone, most likely, because of pride, we reach out to someone more vulnerable than us, someone who is in debt, someone who struggles in some way,
with the pretense that we bring them some comfort. We do it for selfish reason ofcourse, and out of desperation, but it still helps the other person, it lifts them up, with such a debt, they will take anything. And in doing so we feel comforted as well. He is too proud to beg, that is why he reaches to the one who struggles with debt, to a vulnerable one, while he still acts like his master's fortune was his. It is our ego s survival mode, That is why many of us when we are in some kind of life challange, or in a meaning crisis, we go do volunteer work in prisons, or with homeless, or in poor countries etc. we think is a charitable act, and it is, but half of it is actually for ourselves, for what we receive in return, love from the vulnerable.
Why it says that he forgave just half of the debt, I think it is because only God can really fulfill someone, only God can remove all the debt, therefore it will require at least two of us to reach a sense of oneness, a sense of fulfilment, which is the closest it gets in human experience to the Grace of God, yet it is not the Grace of God, it is the closest it gets to, yet it is a great environment, a great condition of our heart, a readiness for the Grace of God to pour in as well.
God ofcourse sees that the Stuart s move is selfish, and immoral, but he appreciates that the Stuart has the vigilance and the eagerness to not lose that sense of onennes, he appreciates the Stuarts need for belonging, so although he is cheating, the Lord allows him the opportunity to see that joining together with someone, unknowingly we will find ourselves into a state of comfort. is better than to isolate in misery and get lost, it allows us to help each other to become available for Grace again.
I think this parable could apply to marriage in a meaning crisis or joining a spiritual community as well.
I think the SS saw it that way too
To be more fair to the point, the dishonest manager wasn't necessarily dishonest... it was a report that got him fired. If the system is rigged and casting you out, THEN use the ill-gotten pieces of the rigged system as what they are, BECAUSE they aren't honest debts...
Nothing belongs to us. All we have is Gods. All our gifts are from God. All I have to give we owe to God.
Simple as that.
Yes He is our Maker and Source!
Amen. Oh and Amy is the most feminine name of all time. Have Mercy.
That is what every narcissist wants you to think of them too and for the exact same reasons.
"Be grateful I have not made things worse than they are for you, yet. Because I can."
A very blessed Christmas to you and yours, dearest Dr. Peterson, God bless you, every one.
Wow! All of these men assembled here and yet, none of them get it! In short gist, Jesus was teaching this: Use your possessions and use your position in life to make friends who will one day welcome you into heaven!
Merry Christmas Dr. Peterson
Thank you, Jesus christ 🙏 🙌
For speaking through this group, the breakdown of it has helped me walk a better life
Greatly appreciate that
1. Acknowledgement is being made by yourself.Dr P and those with you, that the text is sophisticated. That the original audience and listeners are not simpletons and understood commerce.and trade, employment, consequences of dishonesty the "value" of shrewdness at work, profit, nuance and metaphor enough to discover and receive some wisdom. In particular this wisdom was and which related to them because they identified themselves as people of God.( the decendents of Israelites, the Jews; a nation scattered) and their great nations identity and hope was for a restoration to the promised land by a long, awaited messiah.
2. That text from the bible is opened and being discussed with serious scholarly interest ,that there is some genuine wrestling with it going on.and that some truth may be discovered or learned.
3. That acknowledgement of multi faceted human interactions, giving a picture of the sociological make up at that time 2000yrs ago.
Looks good from where Im sitting. Thanks!
Its definitely an interesting Parable. It usually reminds me of the "be wise as serpents but innocent as doves" scripture. I think Jesus is telling believers to use wisdom and craftiness even in Godly matters. Don't be unthinking and incompetent just cause you're holy, work out something!
I too was reminded of "be wise (shrewd - in some Bible versions) as serpents and gentle as doves". I was checking to see if anyone else was thinking the same.
““Listen carefully: I am sending you out like sheep among wolves; so be wise as serpents, and innocent as doves [have no self-serving agenda].”
Matthew 10:16 AMP
Merry Christmas 🎅🎅🎅
Merry Christmas Dr Peterson!
Merry Christmas Mr. Peterson, may you and your loved be happy and healthy
Dang I love Jordan Peterson!!!!🎄🎁
The meaning is this. Like the manager didn't do a good job for his boss, we don't do a good job for God. Still everything we have is trough the grace of God, and basically His. Given our broken relationship with God, we are wise to share the things we received from God with others. So while we living our live, we do good.. may it be with the possessions and talents we received from God (and who is not happy how we do our 'job' in general).
This is the best discussion ever, thanks everyone for the roundtable!!!!
This is good stuff, merry Christmas ✨🌲
Merry Christmas to you, your family and your associates. May God bless and keep you.
Note that the man didn't shake down those in debt; he offered them a way out of debt, a bargain.
Jesus did this for us, knowing that we could never fully pay for own sin, so He negotiated His own body to pay for our debts. We have to be willing to accept what He has offered for the deal to be complete!
And the Father accepts His payment for all those who cannot pay.
I like that analogy. Indeed, we can't fully pay off our debt to God. God has taken a lot of the burden in our place.
I would say that the message Jesus is talking about here is the use of something that is bad, unrighteous to bring forth good, that is the practical shrewdness. What the manager did is wrong, yeah, but by doing wrong he brought mercy to those who were in debt.
@robervalhaha He was saying: even the unrighteous can figure this out; how much more forgiveness when the ultimate forgiveness is given, on the cross!
I disagree with your interpretation. This is a huge stretch and not what the parable is talking about. The debtors were very likely able to afford their debt. Moreover, it was only partially forgiven. (Jesus paid our debt in full and we were never able to repay it ourselves, even in part) This parable is not about the debt itself but about the shrewdness of the manager. Jesus is calling us to be shrewd in handling our spiritual affairs also.
@mary_puffin That's not the point: religious people thought they could pay their debt to the master, but it was only partial.
Moreover, see Matthew 7:9-11. He is saying that even a worldly father would not give his son something evil in response to a request, and how much more your Father in Heaven will give you good gifts.
This is a similar type of parable, saying that even a corrupt man would arrange to forgive some percentage of debts, and how much more the Son would settle ALL of our debts!
Those of you with eyes, open them.
Merry Christmas Dr Peterson! Thank you for all you do! 😊
I think the point of the parable boils down to this: You have a window of opportunity to make the most of what you have. What are you going to do with it?
All parts are one person. The manager is a survival trait of the person, and took on responsibility for the higher self. Once awareness arises that change is happening (karma), then their survival part manages the load that is good for him and good for others.
Christ is showing the better way to deal with karma when in the time when accounts come up for payment.
The intentions of the heart are with God. 🙏
The manager knew firsthand how his master became so wealthy. It was through what he was ordered to collect from the people. He gave a break to those in hopes of making himself look better, but in doing so, revealed himself as a dishonest man.
Glad someone brought it back to spirituality and bringing the lost home. The sons of light need to be shrewd when dealing with those lost in the dark.
I love this😊
I am so grateful for this Bible study. Merry Christmas to all!❤
The late Pastor Stephen Armstrong nailed this parable in his teachings
What was his interpretation?
Yes I saw this yesterday. Isn't it fantastic?!?!?❤❤❤
Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah..shalom from Lebanon
Do you know what Hanukah celebrates?
This helped me to grasp a bit of what this parable might mean. (Although I think they can mean different things at different times). It reminds me of Jacob and Esau- Jacob was shrewd and conniving, but at least he valued the firstborn’s inheritance and God’s blessing enough to persuade/wrestle them from another.
Thank you.
Happy celebration of the Son of God. Not an abstract psychological concept, both God the Father and His Son were and are real people. Spiritual beings of immense intelligence and power, all Glory to the Father and His Son my King who was given the Father's authority
Bishop Barron nails it at the end of
Always has the fullness of truth, Bishop Barron ❤
Oh, love this parable...
Spreading the Gospels is the best vengeance that Mr. Peterson can do against his enemies. He is a shrewd psychologist !
Good to see Dennis Prager feeling better! Merry Christmas
That was apart of a promo that was filmed a while back I think. Last I heard as of a week or so ago Charlie Kirk says he is in the hospital still and can barely speak
Yeeeesssiiirrr...on point ✔️👍💯
Merry christmas doctor jordan peterson
Awesome to hear intelligent discussions on the Truth.
I have always thought that what it meant is that we as believers are managers of his word. We should preach his word as we can manage, if we can manage to rescue half of what people owe to God, we do good for all.
Whoever saved JP is blessed
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE.
Prudence & wisdom y’all. It’s all it is so chill. Trust God. He knows our hearts.
Is Jordan one of the Midwives of Post-Modernity? With his psychological significance of the profound meaning in short Biblical verses and paragraphs? Like the advice to "replenish & subdue the earth?" Are these the words of a supernatural creator, or reality-wise words of the experientially wise writers of Genesis? Wise beyond a naively literal sense of words? Will Post-Modernity turn out to be about reality-wise perceptions of the World, beyond Words?
1:38 Jonathan's laugh made me laugh. One of our favorite parables ha
Merry Christmas ⛄🎁 😊
Love this series!
I worked for a company as a young christian where i had to be shrewd in doing things. I hate to turn up the radio so my boss would not hear me telling the truth. I used to make certain phone calls when my boss stepped out of the office as the truth was despised. This is being shrewd
Amazing- 👏
Perhaps the manager paid the offset balance of what was owed. Is that not what Christ does for us? He covers our lack so we aren't held responsible for our full debt.
Jordan I wish you a very happy Christmas and a wonderful new year God bless you and family from phil in Thailand UK guy from Liverpool you talk more sence than anyone I know God bless
The right understanding of our situation to use whatever we have to gain favour in the next stage. The permanent one
Dr. Peterson is right - it’s like a collections agent… if you get 80% of what’s owed it’s better than demanding 100% and getting 0%. I never thought of it that way but it’s right.
Wow, this excerpt more than any has me really interested to be hearing the entirety of conversations this panel is having about the New Testament scriptures.
"Perfectly explained at ⏰ 2:00! 🎯 You’ve got a fan in me now! 🌟"
📖 I've struggled with this parable probably the most in terms of it's real world application as most people aren't either rich or a manager. I understand the message as the dishonest manager took heed of the warning and acted in the benefit of others and himself long-term.
The message of scripture is a real life warning and calls us all to act in accordance with the will of the Father
"Catena Aurea" has the interpretation right, and it sounds very much in line with the substance of Bishop Barron's understanding (the materialistic try to prepare for disaster through material means (and sometimes deceit); you, prepare yourself spiritually for the hereafter).
Should have stuck with kjv version. It changes it from a parable to a store. Leaves out verses and makes stuff more confusing. If someone can't understand a thee and thou we need go pray. It's on a 3rd grade reading level. Just being honest about my feelings on it. I like kjv better than the other translations but read em all. Read them all but believe 1. With the word of a king there's power only 1 was wrote by "gods silly vassel" king james.
Matthew 10:16 Jesus says "Be as wise (same Greek word as in Luke 16:8) as serpents, and as harmless as doves. Christians have a saying. Too heavenly to be any earthly good, and too worldly to be any heavenly good.
Dr. Peterson needs Jesus Christ and the Blood of Jesus.
You do a good job. Thanks.
We owe God 100% in his grace we will never be able to pay back in full. Do our best and grace will do the rest
Doesn’t make good nonsense 😂
You have to read the rest of the chapter to understand it in context. Jesus was telling this parable in front of the jewish pharisees and wanted them to see that their love of money is evil and god cannot provide them with shepherding his flock if they care more about money than gods people. And that if they can’t handle something as simple as money, how can god trust them to handle shepherding his flock into righteousness and ultimately god’s kingdom.
Merry Christmas!
It is taking the Lord’s mercy and yet we don’t have mercy on others. We can’t comprehend the Mercy and we think we can.
Great analysis
The other option is take your neighbour to the law instead of God? Bible says no, I see it as why we need justice internally. Should the steward beat the debtor or ask for confession and repentance while getting them to acknowlwdge debt?
Perhaps they will pay what they know they owe out of.... free will.
Another interesting one.
May God help us all.
Merry Christmas.
New Discussion dropped 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥💥💥💥💥
Can you share the link
@ I was referring to the video sir
Just a few words, and you've uplifted me
Hopefully, by a certain point, I'll have grown feet
I can solve it for you from a practical standpoint. There are situations when you are called off from the mission: in my case, divorce because my ex cheated on me and left me. We had to make a split of assets, he is making it difficult, not collaborating etc. We had a common flat with a tenant, a good friend of mine. My ex was not interested in anything, so when the tenant moved out, I reimbursed her money without reducing any for the damages she did. It was the only moral thing to do, as my ex deserved nothing for his behaviour. I wanted to save the friendship with my friend, even if that created me some financial problems with the flat. Moral choices are sometimes more subtle than we can think of.
"For what shall it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his soul?" - Jesus Christ
People we choose to put on pedestal should represent the best of humanity, the very best amongst us. Leaders should be beacons of light and humanity, not corrupted greedy and selfish.
I have mulled over this parable forever.....Now it is a bit clearer. How can the dishonest person act in an immoral way and do good? It's a mystery. Thank you for letting us look at it with this group of learned and learning men.
יוי
It is implied in the parable that the man was corrupt & wasted his master's money.
If we assumes that, then what the man did is better than what he has been doing all this time. He is still skimming from his master, but instead of enriching himself, he enriches others.
In this manner, the kingdom of heaven is not just a complete shift toward purity. But a baby step.
The manager also enriched his master while on the way out, i.e., he got caught serving himself at his master's expense, and also likely while taking from the others (advantages of them) at the same time, ...but on the way out he 1) lended his master ability to gain some favor with his indebted (maybe even saving some face, who knows), while the manager also then helped himself save some grace with those whom he had likely been heavy handed with (in charging and taking advantage from)
...and also thusly then perchance realizing that he had made a mistake ...in playing the cutthoat game of self-elevation required for advancement in the corporate world, he had lost sight of his conscience, i.e., taking it seriously he lost touch with his humanity, ...and this was his lesson. (kindof thing)
I have always wondered, perhaps heretically, whether this parable has been lost in translation/transmission. I've never quite understood it and sadly I'm no better informed for listening to this.
Merry Christmas gentlemen
You have seriously misunderstood the parable if you think Jesus is endorsing dishonesty!
After hearing the parable. I believe the focused on what was a good rapport in the whole mess of failure and greed and laziness. You can only partially please everybody all the time and some people all the time and it’s not with a burnt bridge.
If you injure someone are you not required to take care of them. If someone damages your property are they not required to make it good.
Thank you
So simple. Be cautious and careful and resourceful. Don’t be wasteful
In the context, I believe this parable teaches to put RELATIONSHIPS above MONEY
I believe the point of the story in its context is that the manager uses his position to make friends and that to God the way we treat people is more important than the money, that we should use material wealth to gain friendships, and give people favors
The Boss would find his dishonest clients by those who pay quickly. However, the acknowledgment of his managers' failures show his accomplishments as a leader.
Overthinking and under-praying.
May God bless you all and open your hearts
I believe the best answer to such questions is;
What do the church Fathers and Saints have to say about it?
Ambrose of Milan
Augustine of Hippo
Basil the Great
Bede
Cornelius of Lapide
Cyprian of Carthage
Cyril of Alexandria
George Leo Haydock
Gregory the Dialogist
John Chrysostom
Theophilus of Antioch et al...
Clarity has been gifted previously.
Got it? Thanks! Good navigating your map and terrains next year.
I had not heard of this parable before. So after listening to this video clip, I read it (all the way through verse 15). And in the context of how it ends (which was not on the table during this part of their conversation) it makes much more sense to me. Overall it seems to speak to a certain kind of integrity (are you of the world or of the light). And if you are living of the world, then do that well, and do it in such a way that you take care of yourself. This seems to have its own reward; however I am not clear what is meant in how it is translated here (I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.)
But if you are of the light, then you do not want to play by the rules of the world. And in this sense, it was a major rebuke of the Pharisees, which are spoken of in verses 14 and 15. And here he speaks to them in a way that makes a direct comparison to the steward, and in this comparison casts the Pharisees in a bad light versus the man who "cheated his employer." To me, the context of the end of this passage is CRITICAL to understanding the parable.
Parables, metaphors, fables... what is to distinguish a story or metaphor from an actual event?
Nobody thinks Psalm 137:9 or Numbers 22:21-39 refers to an actual event.
So pls explain how the resurrection is referred to as an actual event, and not a metaphor.
thank you ....
I think the major point of this parable is that as the manager is getting fired he would rather be a slave in the managers house rather than to be completely put out of the company. So the manager exercises and authority granted to him by the master to forgive debts so that he is showing the mercy that he perhaps should have been showing and also preserving a space for himself even at the lowest level of the master's Kingdom/company.
I find your point interesting! thank you
It's like when you see someone who's cunning and smart. They may be immoral but you respect the intellect. There's something to be learned from that. It can be used in the right way.
If God is Creator, everyone is accountable before Him as stewards in the end, because He made everything and gave us life.
Really miss Os Guinness in these videos. He was my favorite commentator in the Exodus series.