10:32 This misunderstanding could have been avoided by quoting Ephesians 4:26-27 26 “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold. i.e., These verses do not forbid anger but warn against allowing your anger to lead you into sin.
Exactly, when listening to the full thing the other day I sat through that whole focus of discussion losing my mind that nobody brought up this Ephesians verse 😂 It’s really not that complicated of a subject matter and St. Paul lays it out very direct and simply.
5:27 Dennis: “We’re making unreasonable demands on people!” Jesus: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matt. 5:48)
I’m not defending Prager here, but Jesus severely reprimanded those who cast unreasonable burdens on people while not carrying those very burdens themselves
He has no formal education in interpreting scripture. It's not amazing, it's dangerous. "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body." James 3:1-2
@@thomasstuart6861 It starts when you get into a relationship. It starts when you start talking to each other, it starts when you first notice each other and take interest. It starts from childhood, how you were raised and your relationship, healthy or unhealthy, with the parent of the same and opposite sex. People may not challenge each other directly, although many still do which is a good thing in my estimation, but in the very act of selecting or rejecting each other we challenge ourselves to be more desirable. It's also why people generally do not have the same selection criteria for a fling they _know_ is a fling and for a long-term relationship. By definition, selection criteria constitute a standard and any standard constitutes a challenge. I hope this answers your questions.
@@thomasstuart6861 Challenges appear to be a fact of life. The challenges started long before we were even conscious or aware or existed in my opinion. However, if you’re talking about challenges in relationships, life brings them to humanity all the time. Establishing roles and responsibilities are of high importance - which the west is losing. Many cultures generally accept the roles and responsibilities of male and female as a physiological fact of life. This makes marriage somewhat easier for those who recognize and understand this fact, at least initially.
‘The final battle between the Lord and the kingdom of Satan will be about Marriage and the Family.’ 'Don't be afraid, because whoever works for the sanctity of Marriage and the Family will always be fought against and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue.'
Jesus said "Your holiness must surpass that of the Pharisee". He also said "If you're angry at your brother, it's like there is murder in your heart" He also said "be holy, as your Father is holy". If you read the context of Jesus' words, he TOTALLY condemned lust.
Yes there are really many scriptures they are forgetting here. As often is, sometimes the mass collaboration of the congregation is wiser than those experts who lord it over.
I listened to the Exodus podcast that Jordan did and recall Dennis Prager defending watching porn - he was saying it’s okay because it’s in your mind and God just cares about your actions…. Something to that effect. And now I listen to this and hear him chirp right up and try to reason his way around lust being a bad thing. I’ve lost respect for that dude. I think What God is really after is our heart. He is holy and he calls us to pursue righteousness and holiness.
You should watch his interview with Matt Fradd on Pints with Aquinas. I couldn’t believe the things that were coming out of Pragers mouth regarding this same topic, and what’s more is Matt couldn’t hide the disgust from his face either.
as a jew, my personal rule when I listen to those Bible discussions, is to not pay too much attention to what Prager says. He's a self appointed authority. He has actually none on any of the subjects he discusses (not even judaism)
@tonybanks1035 I was thinking Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks would have been the best figure to represent the Jewish position, if he were still with us. I still enjoy Prager's questions.
Lord JESUS I trust you. I need your strength. I’m struggling providing for my children. I’m so discouraged as a single mom Lord Jesus I’m overwhelmed. I have two beautiful boys both are special needs. I’m overwhelmed because they require so much from me. Every month is a struggle to not end up on the streets. Lord grant me strength to provide for my sons. With you by my side Lord I know all is possible.❤️
God bless you for raising these children. Only with his strength can he provide you the oath to better help yourself and your children. I pray that you God guides you to finding the strength and knowledge needed to better help you and your boys. Finding support in your local church community or other places hopefully can help relieve some of your burden. Keep the faith and never give up on yourself or your children.
The law was to show us that we could not rise to God's standard. What Jesus was doing was showing that even those who thought they were keeping the law, they could not even begin to keep God's law. We are not able to keep the law. We NEED a savior!!
Bingo! And that's what the Pharisees were all about--a public display of keeping not only the law as delivered to Moses but also all of the "fence" laws and traditions they erected around it.
I think once one begins to have tiny glimpses, just the tiniest glimpses, of the goodness of Our Father in Heaven, one sees that there's a whole other beyond imagining depth happening, where our greatest and "most good" humans are akin to an infant who beams with pride that he's able to start notifying his parent that they've soiled themselves. It's not that we're per so "so bad" (which, would imply that we had the right to condemn ourselves or another), but that the light upon light is...Unfathomable. We are...Unknowing...
This is a modern day round table of the most intelligent minds we have today. I feel lucky to be able to watch this; thank you Jordan Peterson for putting this together!
Prager is missing the focus of Jesus's statement. It's towards the heart, which goes deeper than just the action. The sin does not start at the leaf or bud, but at the root. It's not just that we act on unrighteous behavior, but this is a direct consequence of kindling and inciting unrighteousness in our imagination and in our spirit.
What an excellent discussion!! Genesis 4:7 if you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door, it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.
The issue with Prager’s view is twofold: 1. The concept of lusting after a woman in your heart is not unique to Christ. Jesus is simply reiterating what is already stated in Proverbs 6.” As well as a verse in Job. 2. Even within the Hebrew 10 commandments, the word for covet is actually two different Hebrew words (why many traditions split the commandments into 9 for coveting possessions and 10 for coveting a neighbor’s wife). Covet wife (Hebrew word “chamad” to delight in), and covet belongings (“avah” desire).
Good points, although it's unlikely Dennis is ignorant of the Hebrew syntax and distinctions your mentioning. He could be playing dumb of course but that's another issue. Dennis point is contextually sound however as Christ is certainly extrapolating and expounding on the law. I'm not disagreeing with you by the way.
So, is your point that,as Jesus did when he said hating ones brother is liable of murder,so also he is adding,or revealing a way previously not realized, a way in which one could violate the commandment on adultery? Maybe a restriction God in is omniscience waited to reveal until Christ? And that Jews prior to Christ wouldn't have seen the commandments and had a problem with lust, or realized it's illicitness?
Jesus' priority was always about heaven and eternal life. That was always His focus. Later when He gets questioned about divorce by two Pharisees, he stresses that what God brings together let no man separate and that if you cannot accept this, you should become like a eunuch for the sake of heaven. Lust was taken very seriously. Jesus' saw no loopholes with it. Sinful thought is sin.
Moreover, who can say that he will retain lust and not go and commit adultety physically ? I mean entertain the lust in your heart and mind about a woman and be sure that you he will not go on and commit it ?
10:05 Jonathan spitting bangers. You will indeed be a slave to your sinful desires if you entertain them beyond merely their uncontrolled emergence. And the more you align your mind with righteousness, the less these kinds of desires emerge. Thus says the Lord, clean the inside of the cup first, and then the outside will also be clean.
Thinking about His wider statements about love, and that He never said that natural desire was in any way sinful, it seems clear that he meant that forming a sexual desire for a woman without love for her is a violation of the law of love which He did state is the way to discover and know the truth of ourselves.
Or entertaining the sexual desire once there and pursuing it rather than just acknowledging it as the biological reaction but not putting it into any kind of high place
Prager is wrong for a lot of reasons. Jesus is not merely addressing in Matthew 5:28 “covetousness”, but is literally addressing lust (longing) itself. The same word (epithymēsai) is used in Matthew 13:17, and in Galatians 5:17 (desire). He is also completely disregarding the apocalyptic nature of the speech itself, where lust in general would prove counterproductive and transgressive except in the confines of marriage (Paul- better to marry, than to BURN).
It is the same verb that is used for the Septuagint in the Old Testament. "I and the Father are one." Jesus was just backing up his dad 😌 I hope Mr Prager realises Jesus is the same God he loves and worships 😭🙏
These days with the technology we have, to avoid the temptation to sin in this way has never been so difficult, particularly the way young women now present themselves on social media platforms.
Social media is harmful for your mental health in more ways than you can count. Covetousness is but one of them. Free yourself of the temptations. Excise social media from your life.
Denis Prager seems to confuse "Emotions" with "Sins". Anger, Lust, are mere emotions so they're neither good nor bad, they just are. But the deliberate intent to constanly feed those emotions is what make them sinful. When we catholics talk about "lust" as a "sin", we understand it is about the WILL and not just the mere emotion.
Tis episode points out one of the major failings of the church in the last 100 years. Christians must get angry at evil and be prepared to call it out and stand by the truth. It is in fact an act of love.
It's sad that Dennis seems to be saying all male sexual desire or erotic experience is fundamentally and automatically lust. Lust is basically objectification - sexual desire that disregards the value and dignity of the person, makes them an object of use. Lust is a sin because it's a misuse of the human faculty for sexual desire (which is made for self-giving love). It's a mistaken act of the mind. The Theology of the Body work by John Paul II is the truest thing I've ever come across in terms of "solving" sexuality. It's too bad there wasn't a Catholic who was well-read in TOB there to bring it into the discussion. Look up Christopher West if you're interested in this topic.
The amount of sexualized content being fed into our brains today versus woman being fully clothed , veiled and modestly dressed back then is something to consider
To know someone is married is only to see if a person has children. Children ARE the true marriage between a man and a woman that is blessed directly by God!
I think to look at someone lustfully, looking with the purpose of desire, is a lie of sorts. Your focus becomes what you want or need out of a person, which can cloud your judgement. It also strips a person down to a single factor, in this case appearance, which is an insult to the totality of someone's being. If you truly *wanted* somebody, you'd want to get to know them, you'd want to somehow win them over and sacrifice all other possible partners to be with them, to accept them in their fullness of being. Only wanting one aspect of them closes you off from the reality of their Being and equates to a lie
I wish Jordan Peterson could make a series of studies on the book of Job and the indescribable beauty of pain. I couldn’t help but think of Job when they said God shows anger towards evil; but when the devil asked God permission to take everything away from Job, he gave him limited, nonetheless, he gave him “access” to hurt Job in a profound way….. I am not here questioning God whatsoever, I am simply deeply interested in getting to know Him, his ways of thinking and develop a personal relationship with Him. I believe there is such depth into the book of Job, and nobody has ever gone beyond the surface….. I think Jordan Peterson and this wonderful group of men sitting at this table could “unveil” some of the “hidden gems” inside it.
I appreciate Mr. Prager’s insistence on not being naïve or cowardly in the face of evil; however I find Dr. Peterson’s articulation of the necessity to constrain, integrate, and channel anger towards the summum bonum more meaningful. Sexuality and aggression are not impulses that can be erased from human nature, but they should never take the driver’s seat so to say: they should never become the false idol which replaces God. One can engage in righteous love or righteous indignation, but the instinctive drives should always be directed towards service of the divine order. Righteous indignation can become tyrannical if the indignation becomes more vociferous than its moral justification. The imperative to me is to always have God front of mind, and let any underlying motivations be channeled into that cortical, mature order.
Christ's teachings on lust are twofold: first, it answers inquiries on what standard to achieve, on this particular topic, to call oneself pure and worthy of acceptance in heaven; second, and logically ensuing understanding of one's position in comparison to Christ's standard mentioned in the first point, it explains why one needs God. To me, this is so powerful.
STRONGS ACCORDANCE: Greek: ἐπιθυμέω Transliteration: epithumeō Pronunciation: ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o Definition: From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon that is long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet desire would fain lust (after). KJV Usage: desire (8x), covet (3x), lust (3x), lust after (1x), fain (1x). In Mathew 5:28 is the word epithumeō. It means “to desire, long for, have a strong desire for, a strong lust/covet.”
If God says eating pork is a sin. Planning to eat the pork in your head is the same as doing it in your heart. But feeling hungry at the sight and smell but dismissing the physical urge to eat is no sin
Anger as feeling is only a sign or symptom of a state of being. How one chooses how to use the energy in anger is the issue. If the energy is used in a decision to love, perhaps saving another's life may fit. Only God knows that motivation.
@ 14:18 - The use of "avatar" in relation to Christ could be seen as problematic from a traditional Christian perspective, as it might imply a temporary or partial manifestation of divinity, which conflicts with the Christian doctrine of the Incarnation. Christ embodies or represents the perfect ability to discern truth, make moral judgments, or distinguish between right and wrong. This interpretation aligns with Christian theology, which often portrays Jesus as the embodiment of divine wisdom and perfect moral judgment.
Well he is Jewish so it’s probably good to have some opposing viewpoints and other scholars to question the text and be able to break it down it different ways.
Jordan and team, please do note the key to the questions around the discussion is (as stated Love wisely). If a man lust or desires another man's wife there is an "absence of Love". If a man has anger with the "absence of love", there is sin. Jesus's anger with flipping the table was dripping in His love for the father directly and the world (us) indirectly. To miss the mark (sin) or to be outside the will of God, is to have a thought outside the presence of Love. Hatred is not the opposite of Love. This may sound too simplistic, but the opposite of God's will is the "absence of Love". As stated, it is circular- "Love wisely" in all of our righteous emotions, thoughts and behavior (grace, mercy, forgiveness, judgement, sacrifice and wrath)
You can reinforce your thoughts and minimize risk of bad thoughts through repetition and allowing yourself to experience resonance for good things. Essentially, to me, religion is the way to get that inner thought ‘gooder’. You can call that thought your soul. Which if you’re interested in controlling your actions through reason, you may learn enough to control your thoughts through purposeful behavior. You may then say: why not do that with stoic virtues without God? Maybe you can do that, but for me, knowing God is there turns my stoic virtues to life under the virtue of love and patience and understanding. Stoic virtue is like Mind (for me through curiosity and intellectual passions). Religions help the soul (for me through grace and consistent warship). Exercise is Body (for me martial arts and consistent stretching and light body work). It’s a commitment, but that’s how you are chosen. And if you want to help others more, the more you have to work on those three things: Like cultivating a garden and God is with you helping you. Each good thought a seed for later fruit which is all reinforced with loving hope. Even for me, I am aware of the subjectivity yet allow it into my soul, to which it augments and makes me better aware and capable and willful.
If your eye causes you to sin gouging it out is tied with cutting off the hand…I don’t think the relationship to coveting is in anyway tied to cutting off the hand (spiritually speaking) but LUST is…and it corrupts one’s mind and prayer life too.
@@justing738 for example thou shalt not kill humans kill everyday whether it be ants we walk on or microscopic life, it doesn’t say thou shalt not kill any sentient being or thou shalt not kill humans or kinds of man, then it says to walk the path of Christ well human beings have both positive and negative and we need both to survive on the earth without the negative we would be killed by all kinds of predators we need negative just as much as positive it’s impossible to be purely all good because we were created with a balance.
Well, I'm going to defend Dennis here, and say that his words on the word "epithumeó" was both instructive, and helpful, and gave me some things to contemplate, that I may grow in The Way.
Will a spouse who lets their ex use terms of endearment and say they just miss their friendship and does not want to cut communication considered adultery? Does an emotional affair fall in to that category? If so, will it be wise to part ways with your spouse?
The KEY for this is in the prior verses about Anger vs Murder ... Adultery "in your heart" is as murder in your heart via anger -- thinking is NOT the same as doing but Jesus adds to not let these things enter into your heart... So there's a line to resist crossing btwn frustration/anger and attraction/lust
The look thing is absolutely ridiculous. You can't force your own body to shut off its hormones or turn your thoughts off everytime you're around someone attractive. It's literally a biblical rule that's impossible to do 😂. Like seriously it's ridiculous beyond belief. This is an example of why so many people are losing their faith. The church needs to start being more realistic. Doing something and thinking something are obviously different. You can't stop your thoughts but you can prevent yourself from doing things.
Yes, people here are quick to pile on Dennis but he makes a perfectly sensible distinction in the line between INTENT, and a completely involuntary reaction. It’s like anger. Anger is natural, human and understandable- what you DO with that anger is for instance what several of the 10 commandments prohibit. Like shmurder. In the opening, Peterson reads, “if your eye CAUSES you to sin”… my thoughts are not sin. I have not acted them out, broken any law. The bible if rife with advice on what to DO with your thoughts that burden you, pray, give them to God etc, nowhere in the Bible does it say don’t THINK these things. Therefore, thinking, lustful thoughts is like thinking violent thoughts, or reckless thoughts. How you act, is what’s important.
@@fawkesandhound It's not only how you act, it's how you intend to act and how resilient you are in the face of temptation. To circle back to Jordan's initial point, if you would act to take your neighbour's wife away from him but the opportunity never presents itself then it is as though you've done the deed. It's only if you wouldn't give in to the temptation that you've claim to virtue.
The whole point of Jesus pointing out lust being so difficult is that it is absolutely impossible. He is the only Savior. That's literally the point. Lol.
Jesus is setting things on a higher spiritual plane. How the Father looks at morality in it's maximal form. Even if you think about another woman, you've committed adultery. Thank God that Jesus lived that perfect life for me because I would be screwed.
Look into circumcision. I believe he is referring to cutting off excess sin flesh along with spiritual circumcsion. Letting old cursed things go to be made new. Just like new wine into new wine skins. If you want scriptures let me know and I will give them. Remember 66 books are all included. also remember Jesus spoke in parables. Comparisons. Context is all 66 books. 3:59
I have a question: what’s the story behind the way they’re sitting? it seems like jp is physically stationing himself in the position of jesus (last supper) and that rubs me the wrong way. I haven’t been watching this series and might be missing context.
@RCGWho I am well aware of that. I am a Christian. I was referring to the exact word he was comparing. Between lust in NT as Jesus taught -which would have been written in koine Greek and the Hebrew of the OT manuscripts, in particular exodus. He said it was the same word. How is that possible if it's two different languages. He did not use another OT scripture written in NT (in Greek) for the same word. He was simply comparing Exodus (10th commandment) to Gospels.
Through philosophy, the Greeks reached the highest possible limits of development of the human spirit and through language they presented the most perfect possible form of expression of human speech. (Elder Sophronius of Essex)..
There is something missing that Paul touches on in chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians. It does not matter what you do if it lacks charity (divine love). If one is angry for any other reason than love (charity) for others - they have failed (it does not benefit). Without benefit it becomes a force for evil.
Of the many things Jesus was doing during his teaching on the Sermon on the Mount, there are 2 specific and easy takeaways from the particular passage being spoken about here. This passage is more easily understood when you also look at what Jesus was teaching about anger just before teaching about lust and adultery. The context is what we need to understand the didactic. 1- Both anger and lust are feelings that we must be both cognizant and purposeful with because they can lead to destructive sin. 2 - You will never live a sinless life. Just because you haven't murdered in the physical sense doesn't mean you haven't in your desires. Just because you haven't slept with someone who isn't your spouse doesn't mean you haven't thought about and desired it. The Lord weighs the heart because from it springs our daily active life. We will never measure up to perfection. I don't know why this panel of learned men don't seem to grasp this historically understood passage of Christ's teachings.
Lógos and agapè, love wisely. It is precisely the true meaning of philosophy. Philosophia, which is love of wisdom but also wisdom of love, is wisdom and love (although philia is not agapè).
erotic effect vs lust is different. there is active choice in lusting after. Its to do with " you cant help birds flying over your head but can prebent them making nest on your head"
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
While I may not control the thoughts that arise unbidden, I am responsible for how I respond to them and what I choose to do with them.
Exactly. Unbidden thoughts aren't sinful, but it's entertaining them that is sinful.
I got to tell you, when I was young I had unbidden wet dreams.....just tell me where do dreams come from?
Bars
Nice
😊
10:32 This misunderstanding could have been avoided by quoting Ephesians 4:26-27
26 “In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
i.e., These verses do not forbid anger but warn against allowing your anger to lead you into sin.
Boom!
Amen to that!
No emotion can be sinful, only the way we act or don't act upon the emotion.
Exactly, when listening to the full thing the other day I sat through that whole focus of discussion losing my mind that nobody brought up this Ephesians verse 😂
It’s really not that complicated of a subject matter and St. Paul lays it out very direct and simply.
My exact thoughts. Glad you commented this
Bishop barron is the most with knowledge here even though I'm not a catholic
He is very knowledgeable within his own domain. All of these guys are geniuses in their respective lanes
It's not a competition dude.
@@visionlandmusic it's about who has the truth
@@Banban_tv still not a competition, that being said, I agree he and then Johnathan Pageau are the most knowledgeable in my opinion at this table
I really enjoy this. It's good to hear all ideas from these men. Thank you. 😊😊
Praying for a complete and quick recovery for you Mr. Prager you are much needed here.
I didn't realize just how bad Dennis' accident was. He truly needs prayers!
5:27
Dennis: “We’re making unreasonable demands on people!”
Jesus: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” (Matt. 5:48)
We Need Father God to Save us!
Pager is in some serious error.
I’m not defending Prager here, but Jesus severely reprimanded those who cast unreasonable burdens on people while not carrying those very burdens themselves
prager is a pedophilia advocate, what is he even doing here?
@@hexahexametermeterit's really sad
It is soo incredible to hear Dr Peterson reading the scripture! Going from a mainstream psychology to reading and interpreting scriptures, is amazing!
Not really
He has no formal education in interpreting scripture. It's not amazing, it's dangerous. "Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness. For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body." James 3:1-2
All he is doing is seeing scripture as a psychological Jungian metaphor. That's what Campbellites do.
No it's not he has to over intellectualize everything
“If passion drives you, let reason hold the reins.”
Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard’s Almanack
Passion=flesh/lust
Reason taking the Reigns=submitting to God and resisting the devil
This Commandment protects the sanctity of the family unit, which is definitely under attack.
when does it start...I mean, when does a loving couple start to challenge each other on everything? When does that start? Is it you who starts it?
@@thomasstuart6861 It starts when you get into a relationship. It starts when you start talking to each other, it starts when you first notice each other and take interest. It starts from childhood, how you were raised and your relationship, healthy or unhealthy, with the parent of the same and opposite sex.
People may not challenge each other directly, although many still do which is a good thing in my estimation, but in the very act of selecting or rejecting each other we challenge ourselves to be more desirable.
It's also why people generally do not have the same selection criteria for a fling they _know_ is a fling and for a long-term relationship.
By definition, selection criteria constitute a standard and any standard constitutes a challenge.
I hope this answers your questions.
@@thomasstuart6861 Not sure I fully understand the question.
@@thomasstuart6861 Challenges appear to be a fact of life. The challenges started long before we were even conscious or aware or existed in my opinion.
However, if you’re talking about challenges in relationships, life brings them to humanity all the time.
Establishing roles and responsibilities are of high importance - which the west is losing.
Many cultures generally accept the roles and responsibilities of male and female as a physiological fact of life. This makes marriage somewhat easier for those who recognize and understand this fact, at least initially.
‘The final battle between the Lord and the kingdom of Satan will be about Marriage and the Family.’
'Don't be afraid, because whoever works for the sanctity of Marriage and the Family will always be fought against and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue.'
...for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.
1 Samuel 16:7 KJV
Jesus said "Your holiness must surpass that of the Pharisee".
He also said "If you're angry at your brother, it's like there is murder in your heart"
He also said "be holy, as your Father is holy".
If you read the context of Jesus' words, he TOTALLY condemned lust.
The world, the flesh, and the devil present the temptation. The ball's in our court to bat it away or not.
Jews, and Muslims always seem to make pardons for themselves on certain issues. I'm not perfect but I've lusted before, but I know it's wrong
Yes there are really many scriptures they are forgetting here. As often is, sometimes the mass collaboration of the congregation is wiser than those experts who lord it over.
At times things go off the rails and I’d just like to hear Bishop Barron’s wisdom straighten things out. Big [Protestant] fan of Barron here
Oh man I could chew on this conversation in person for HOURS.
I listened to the Exodus podcast that Jordan did and recall Dennis Prager defending watching porn - he was saying it’s okay because it’s in your mind and God just cares about your actions…. Something to that effect. And now I listen to this and hear him chirp right up and try to reason his way around lust being a bad thing. I’ve lost respect for that dude. I think What God is really after is our heart. He is holy and he calls us to pursue righteousness and holiness.
Seriously. Tell me you have a porn addiction and lust for people besides your wife without telling me.
You should watch his interview with Matt Fradd on Pints with Aquinas. I couldn’t believe the things that were coming out of Pragers mouth regarding this same topic, and what’s more is Matt couldn’t hide the disgust from his face either.
It doesn't really surprise me at all he's a chosenite
as a jew, my personal rule when I listen to those Bible discussions, is to not pay too much attention to what Prager says. He's a self appointed authority. He has actually none on any of the subjects he discusses (not even judaism)
@tonybanks1035
I was thinking Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks would have been the best figure to represent the Jewish position, if he were still with us. I still enjoy Prager's questions.
Lord JESUS I trust you. I need your strength. I’m struggling providing for my children. I’m so discouraged as a single mom Lord Jesus I’m overwhelmed. I have two beautiful boys both are special needs. I’m overwhelmed because they require so much from me. Every month is a struggle to not end up on the streets. Lord grant me strength to provide for my sons. With you by my side Lord I know all is possible.❤️
God bless you for raising these children. Only with his strength can he provide you the oath to better help yourself and your children. I pray that you God guides you to finding the strength and knowledge needed to better help you and your boys. Finding support in your local church community or other places hopefully can help relieve some of your burden. Keep the faith and never give up on yourself or your children.
I am a seminarian from England, will keep you and your children in my prayers!
Anything I can do to help?
Thankful for these Gospels clips to watch on RUclips.
The law was to show us that we could not rise to God's standard. What Jesus was doing was showing that even those who thought they were keeping the law, they could not even begin to keep God's law. We are not able to keep the law. We NEED a savior!!
Bingo! And that's what the Pharisees were all about--a public display of keeping not only the law as delivered to Moses but also all of the "fence" laws and traditions they erected around it.
You made such a great point. It’s exactly the truth. If the law worked then Jesus would not have had to come.
You still aren’t allowed to sin
I think once one begins to have tiny glimpses, just the tiniest glimpses, of the goodness of Our Father in Heaven, one sees that there's a whole other beyond imagining depth happening, where our greatest and "most good" humans are akin to an infant who beams with pride that he's able to start notifying his parent that they've soiled themselves. It's not that we're per so "so bad" (which, would imply that we had the right to condemn ourselves or another), but that the light upon light is...Unfathomable. We are...Unknowing...
This is a modern day round table of the most intelligent minds we have today. I feel lucky to be able to watch this; thank you Jordan Peterson for putting this together!
Prager is missing the focus of Jesus's statement. It's towards the heart, which goes deeper than just the action. The sin does not start at the leaf or bud, but at the root.
It's not just that we act on unrighteous behavior, but this is a direct consequence of kindling and inciting unrighteousness in our imagination and in our spirit.
He's a man of the law.
Considering he doesn’t follow the commandments, are you surprised?
What an excellent discussion!!
Genesis 4:7 if you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door, it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.
The issue with Prager’s view is twofold:
1. The concept of lusting after a woman in your heart is not unique to Christ. Jesus is simply reiterating what is already stated in Proverbs 6.” As well as a verse in Job.
2. Even within the Hebrew 10 commandments, the word for covet is actually two different Hebrew words (why many traditions split the commandments into 9 for coveting possessions and 10 for coveting a neighbor’s wife). Covet wife (Hebrew word “chamad” to delight in), and covet belongings (“avah” desire).
Good points, although it's unlikely Dennis is ignorant of the Hebrew syntax and distinctions your mentioning. He could be playing dumb of course but that's another issue. Dennis point is contextually sound however as Christ is certainly extrapolating and expounding on the law.
I'm not disagreeing with you by the way.
Thank you for sharing.
So, is your point that,as Jesus did when he said hating ones brother is liable of murder,so also he is adding,or revealing a way previously not realized, a way in which one could violate the commandment on adultery? Maybe a restriction God in is omniscience waited to reveal until Christ? And that Jews prior to Christ wouldn't have seen the commandments and had a problem with lust, or realized it's illicitness?
In the USA Trump is the worst one to exemplify lust as a matter of a principle
Dennis also loves fapping and demands circumcision, so nothing he says should be taken seriously.
Thanks!
No Dennis. Why would God give two laws the same? Lust is lust. Covert is covert.
Indeed. Reign in your passions and do not indulge even if situationally not adultery
Is it not“covet” without the r ?
@@commscompany1502 You are correct. Covert is a word that is similar to subtle or stealthy. Covet without the r is a reference to desire.
Jesus' priority was always about heaven and eternal life. That was always His focus. Later when He gets questioned about divorce by two Pharisees, he stresses that what God brings together let no man separate and that if you cannot accept this, you should become like a eunuch for the sake of heaven.
Lust was taken very seriously. Jesus' saw no loopholes with it. Sinful thought is sin.
Moreover, who can say that he will retain lust and not go and commit adultety physically ? I mean entertain the lust in your heart and mind about a woman and be sure that you he will not go on and commit it ?
10:05 Jonathan spitting bangers. You will indeed be a slave to your sinful desires if you entertain them beyond merely their uncontrolled emergence. And the more you align your mind with righteousness, the less these kinds of desires emerge. Thus says the Lord, clean the inside of the cup first, and then the outside will also be clean.
Thinking about His wider statements about love, and that He never said that natural desire was in any way sinful, it seems clear that he meant that forming a sexual desire for a woman without love for her is a violation of the law of love which He did state is the way to discover and know the truth of ourselves.
Or entertaining the sexual desire once there and pursuing it rather than just acknowledging it as the biological reaction but not putting it into any kind of high place
Prager is wrong for a lot of reasons. Jesus is not merely addressing in Matthew 5:28 “covetousness”, but is literally addressing lust (longing) itself. The same word (epithymēsai) is used in Matthew 13:17, and in Galatians 5:17 (desire). He is also completely disregarding the apocalyptic nature of the speech itself, where lust in general would prove counterproductive and transgressive except in the confines of marriage (Paul- better to marry, than to BURN).
It is the same verb that is used for the Septuagint in the Old Testament. "I and the Father are one." Jesus was just backing up his dad 😌 I hope Mr Prager realises Jesus is the same God he loves and worships 😭🙏
This is amazing. You are all amazing. I love you. God Bless you all.
Lust -> Anger. Very important discussion. Thanks
❤ this. Thank you all 9 gentlemen for your input. I am grateful and better for this knowledge. 🤗
These days with the technology we have, to avoid the temptation to sin in this way has never been so difficult, particularly the way young women now present themselves on social media platforms.
Get off social media my friend.
Social media is harmful for your mental health in more ways than you can count.
Covetousness is but one of them.
Free yourself of the temptations. Excise social media from your life.
Get off social media yes, but how do we help these women?
@@dreistheman7797 I think, like every other human invention and with time, we will learn and adapt to the technology.
No we do not want burkas.
I think that most of the commandments are about installing and maintaining social trust between people.
Perfect Law unfortunately fallen humanity can’t keep any of it 🪦🪦 We Need A Saviour! ✝️🩸🕊️👑
The first 4 commandments are your relationship to God the last 6 are to man
@@bryangormann214 👍
Denis Prager seems to confuse "Emotions" with "Sins".
Anger, Lust, are mere emotions so they're neither good nor bad, they just are. But the deliberate intent to constanly feed those emotions is what make them sinful. When we catholics talk about "lust" as a "sin", we understand it is about the WILL and not just the mere emotion.
Tis episode points out one of the major failings of the church in the last 100 years. Christians must get angry at evil and be prepared to call it out and stand by the truth. It is in fact an act of love.
???? I should say; 😊
Yeah ends up in crusades. Such an act of love.
@@hexahexametermeter yes, you are very "well informed" about crusade campaigns.
When the camera pans out , it looks like some modern depiction of the last supper with Peterson in Jesus seat lol
That's what they were going for. You just simply noticed what they were trying to do. Its obvious
Well well thank you for clarifying that.
From the Word to the Eucharist
In other videos he wears a divided red and blue jacket. He thinks he's Christ. Plus he has himself surrounded by an arch. Like a halo.
😂 thank God he's not God; no one would get in heaven due to a dirty room alone
It's sad that Dennis seems to be saying all male sexual desire or erotic experience is fundamentally and automatically lust. Lust is basically objectification - sexual desire that disregards the value and dignity of the person, makes them an object of use. Lust is a sin because it's a misuse of the human faculty for sexual desire (which is made for self-giving love). It's a mistaken act of the mind.
The Theology of the Body work by John Paul II is the truest thing I've ever come across in terms of "solving" sexuality. It's too bad there wasn't a Catholic who was well-read in TOB there to bring it into the discussion. Look up Christopher West if you're interested in this topic.
ruclips.net/video/vz5wxYYSOpQ/видео.htmlsi=fp_BKgjNd0YnTowY
The amount of sexualized content being fed into our brains today versus woman being fully clothed , veiled and modestly dressed back then is something to consider
Yes it’s never been more important than to fight the passions God Bless You
5:00 I believe the spirit of the phrase is to encourage rooting out any potential seed of sin.
You guys are all doing rather exceptionally well in my opinion, as near best as I can tell.
To know someone is married is only to see if a person has children. Children ARE the true marriage between a man and a woman that is blessed directly by God!
I think to look at someone lustfully, looking with the purpose of desire, is a lie of sorts. Your focus becomes what you want or need out of a person, which can cloud your judgement. It also strips a person down to a single factor, in this case appearance, which is an insult to the totality of someone's being. If you truly *wanted* somebody, you'd want to get to know them, you'd want to somehow win them over and sacrifice all other possible partners to be with them, to accept them in their fullness of being. Only wanting one aspect of them closes you off from the reality of their Being and equates to a lie
John Vervaeke seems to me more like a student of Christian theology. His openness is admirable.
He's a trojan horse.
All this talk about needing to be angry at evil. Yet we forget His command to be a peacemaker and that He is the Prince of Peace.
Yes there are many scriptures they are forgetting or neglecting. Not the best scholars. They pick the scriptures they like.
Righteous fury is sometimes necessary to bring about peace.
I wish Jordan Peterson could make a series of studies on the book of Job and the indescribable beauty of pain. I couldn’t help but think of Job when they said God shows anger towards evil; but when the devil asked God permission to take everything away from Job, he gave him limited, nonetheless, he gave him “access” to hurt Job in a profound way….. I am not here questioning God whatsoever, I am simply deeply interested in getting to know Him, his ways of thinking and develop a personal relationship with Him. I believe there is such depth into the book of Job, and nobody has ever gone beyond the surface….. I think Jordan Peterson and this wonderful group of men sitting at this table could “unveil” some of the “hidden gems” inside it.
Khan? Convert?
I appreciate Mr. Prager’s insistence on not being naïve or cowardly in the face of evil; however I find Dr. Peterson’s articulation of the necessity to constrain, integrate, and channel anger towards the summum bonum more meaningful. Sexuality and aggression are not impulses that can be erased from human nature, but they should never take the driver’s seat so to say: they should never become the false idol which replaces God. One can engage in righteous love or righteous indignation, but the instinctive drives should always be directed towards service of the divine order. Righteous indignation can become tyrannical if the indignation becomes more vociferous than its moral justification. The imperative to me is to always have God front of mind, and let any underlying motivations be channeled into that cortical, mature order.
Yeah Prager seems ok with letting lust and anger take the driver's seat.
Beautiful analysis of the Greek, Dr. Orr👌🏼
Christ's teachings on lust are twofold: first, it answers inquiries on what standard to achieve, on this particular topic, to call oneself pure and worthy of acceptance in heaven; second, and logically ensuing understanding of one's position in comparison to Christ's standard mentioned in the first point, it explains why one needs God. To me, this is so powerful.
The difference is do you have anger or does the anger have you?
STRONGS ACCORDANCE:
Greek: ἐπιθυμέω
Transliteration: epithumeō
Pronunciation: ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o
Definition: From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon that is long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet desire would fain lust (after). KJV Usage: desire (8x), covet (3x), lust (3x), lust after (1x), fain (1x).
In Mathew 5:28 is the word epithumeō. It means “to desire, long for, have a strong desire for, a strong lust/covet.”
If God says eating pork is a sin. Planning to eat the pork in your head is the same as doing it in your heart.
But feeling hungry at the sight and smell but dismissing the physical urge to eat is no sin
Anger as feeling is only a sign or symptom of a state of being. How one chooses how to use the energy in anger is the issue. If the energy is used in a decision to love, perhaps saving another's life may fit. Only God knows that motivation.
Read the four Gospels one after the other.
It's the same story told four different ways. It quickly becomes a mobius strip of fractal memories.
Reading it chronologically is also a great thing to do.
I think the main issue is "where are you guiding your attention and your consciousness towards." Because that is the initial sewing.
Hating something is not the same as being angry with something.. Your child can anger you but that doesn't mean you hate this child
I pray God will lead you all to the truth, 🙏🏻
@ 14:18 - The use of "avatar" in relation to Christ could be seen as problematic from a traditional Christian perspective, as it might imply a temporary or partial manifestation of divinity, which conflicts with the Christian doctrine of the Incarnation. Christ embodies or represents the perfect ability to discern truth, make moral judgments, or distinguish between right and wrong. This interpretation aligns with Christian theology, which often portrays Jesus as the embodiment of divine wisdom and perfect moral judgment.
BAP getting a shout out. What an interesting time we are in.
What about reading this in conjunction of “ the one did not committed sin in his heart “ one ?
Isaiah 56:11. Revelation 18:4-5. Hebreo 4:12.
This is awesome
SUPER DUPER AWESOME
I'm not really sure Dennis is adding to this discussion frankly. Every time he speaks he seems to be against.
Agreed, the fact that there isn’t a competent and knowledgeable Rabbi for the Torah series and this gospel series isn’t good.
He's really playing to the Jewish stereotype
Well he is Jewish so it’s probably good to have some opposing viewpoints and other scholars to question the text and be able to break it down it different ways.
Thorough examination involves pushback.
He‘s just annoying and childish
Jordan and team, please do note the key to the questions around the discussion is (as stated Love wisely). If a man lust or desires another man's wife there is an "absence of Love". If a man has anger with the "absence of love", there is sin. Jesus's anger with flipping the table was dripping in His love for the father directly and the world (us) indirectly. To miss the mark (sin) or to be outside the will of God, is to have a thought outside the presence of Love. Hatred is not the opposite of Love. This may sound too simplistic, but the opposite of God's will is the "absence of Love". As stated, it is circular- "Love wisely" in all of our righteous emotions, thoughts and behavior (grace, mercy, forgiveness, judgement, sacrifice and wrath)
Love wisely...I love it!
Aftwr Dennis's conversation with Matt Fradd I've always looked at him sideways
He has a definite secular view of lust.
This is a Rabbi's response to Dennis Prager's comments on that topic ruclips.net/video/vz5wxYYSOpQ/видео.htmlsi=fp_BKgjNd0YnTowY
It’s when you let the thought marinate
You can reinforce your thoughts and minimize risk of bad thoughts through repetition and allowing yourself to experience resonance for good things. Essentially, to me, religion is the way to get that inner thought ‘gooder’. You can call that thought your soul. Which if you’re interested in controlling your actions through reason, you may learn enough to control your thoughts through purposeful behavior. You may then say: why not do that with stoic virtues without God? Maybe you can do that, but for me, knowing God is there turns my stoic virtues to life under the virtue of love and patience and understanding. Stoic virtue is like Mind (for me through curiosity and intellectual passions). Religions help the soul (for me through grace and consistent warship). Exercise is Body (for me martial arts and consistent stretching and light body work). It’s a commitment, but that’s how you are chosen. And if you want to help others more, the more you have to work on those three things: Like cultivating a garden and God is with you helping you. Each good thought a seed for later fruit which is all reinforced with loving hope. Even for me, I am aware of the subjectivity yet allow it into my soul, to which it augments and makes me better aware and capable and willful.
Jesus is Lord
13:00 completely misrepresented the Nietzschean critique of Christian morality and i am not a Nietzschean
Hate is like a moving force of death. Anger is just you being mad. Crazy.
Truly wonderfull!!!
If your eye causes you to sin gouging it out is tied with cutting off the hand…I don’t think the relationship to coveting is in anyway tied to cutting off the hand (spiritually speaking) but LUST is…and it corrupts one’s mind and prayer life too.
Lust is a poor, weak, whimpering, whispering thing compared with that richness and energy of desire which will arise when lust has been killed.
Changing your heart and yourself and the way you are in the world. Is different to following a set of rules given to you.
the reason you change your heart is because those rules are written on it
You also change your heart because there is good and bad in it.
Especially if the rules are contradictory and very unclear
@@animegoblin4716 for example?
@@justing738 for example thou shalt not kill humans kill everyday whether it be ants we walk on or microscopic life, it doesn’t say thou shalt not kill any sentient being or thou shalt not kill humans or kinds of man, then it says to walk the path of Christ well human beings have both positive and negative and we need both to survive on the earth without the negative we would be killed by all kinds of predators we need negative just as much as positive it’s impossible to be purely all good because we were created with a balance.
Well, I'm going to defend Dennis here, and say that his words on the word "epithumeó" was both instructive, and helpful, and gave me some things to contemplate, that I may grow in The Way.
Will a spouse who lets their ex use terms of endearment and say they just miss their friendship and does not want to cut communication considered adultery? Does an emotional affair fall in to that category? If so, will it be wise to part ways with your spouse?
Revelation 01:7a-8
Hate is not anger.
which bible translation was used for this?
The KEY for this is in
the prior verses about
Anger vs Murder
... Adultery "in your
heart" is as murder
in your heart via anger
-- thinking is NOT
the same as doing
but Jesus adds to
not let these things
enter into your
heart... So there's
a line to resist
crossing btwn
frustration/anger
and attraction/lust
Covet makes way more sense then to look.
The look thing is absolutely ridiculous. You can't force your own body to shut off its hormones or turn your thoughts off everytime you're around someone attractive. It's literally a biblical rule that's impossible to do 😂. Like seriously it's ridiculous beyond belief. This is an example of why so many people are losing their faith. The church needs to start being more realistic. Doing something and thinking something are obviously different. You can't stop your thoughts but you can prevent yourself from doing things.
And it's consistent with the context as Christ is extrapolating and expounding on the law so
Dennis' point holds up.
Covet is strongly desire.
Yes, people here are quick to pile on Dennis but he makes a perfectly sensible distinction in the line between INTENT, and a completely involuntary reaction. It’s like anger. Anger is natural, human and understandable- what you DO with that anger is for instance what several of the 10 commandments prohibit. Like shmurder. In the opening, Peterson reads, “if your eye CAUSES you to sin”… my thoughts are not sin. I have not acted them out, broken any law. The bible if rife with advice on what to DO with your thoughts that burden you, pray, give them to God etc, nowhere in the Bible does it say don’t THINK these things. Therefore, thinking, lustful thoughts is like thinking violent thoughts, or reckless thoughts. How you act, is what’s important.
@@fawkesandhound It's not only how you act, it's how you intend to act and how resilient you are in the face of temptation.
To circle back to Jordan's initial point, if you would act to take your neighbour's wife away from him but the opportunity never presents itself then it is as though you've done the deed.
It's only if you wouldn't give in to the temptation that you've claim to virtue.
Sounds like a bunch of guys that have never experienced victory in Christ and cant even comprehend the idea of not lusting after a woman.
The whole point of Jesus pointing out lust being so difficult is that it is absolutely impossible. He is the only Savior. That's literally the point. Lol.
Jesus is setting things on a higher spiritual plane. How the Father looks at morality in it's maximal form. Even if you think about another woman, you've committed adultery. Thank God that Jesus lived that perfect life for me because I would be screwed.
Look into circumcision. I believe he is referring to cutting off excess sin flesh along with spiritual circumcsion. Letting old cursed things go to be made new. Just like new wine into new wine skins. If you want scriptures let me know and I will give them. Remember 66 books are all included. also remember Jesus spoke in parables. Comparisons. Context is all 66 books. 3:59
I have a question: what’s the story behind the way they’re sitting? it seems like jp is physically stationing himself in the position of jesus (last supper) and that rubs me the wrong way. I haven’t been watching this series and might be missing context.
How did dennis compare the word in the NT to OT. One was in greek and the other in Hebrew....?
yeah.. translating exists..
also maybe the septuagint
There are hundreds od OT scriptures crossrefernced in the NT.
@RCGWho I am well aware of that. I am a Christian. I was referring to the exact word he was comparing. Between lust in NT as Jesus taught -which would have been written in koine Greek and the Hebrew of the OT manuscripts, in particular exodus. He said it was the same word. How is that possible if it's two different languages.
He did not use another OT scripture written in NT (in Greek) for the same word. He was simply comparing Exodus (10th commandment) to Gospels.
Through philosophy, the Greeks reached the highest possible limits of development of the human spirit and through language they presented the most perfect possible form of expression of human speech. (Elder Sophronius of Essex)..
The word is desire
There is something missing that Paul touches on in chapter 13 of 1 Corinthians. It does not matter what you do if it lacks charity (divine love). If one is angry for any other reason than love (charity) for others - they have failed (it does not benefit). Without benefit it becomes a force for evil.
Of the many things Jesus was doing during his teaching on the Sermon on the Mount, there are 2 specific and easy takeaways from the particular passage being spoken about here. This passage is more easily understood when you also look at what Jesus was teaching about anger just before teaching about lust and adultery. The context is what we need to understand the didactic.
1- Both anger and lust are feelings that we must be both cognizant and purposeful with because they can lead to destructive sin.
2 - You will never live a sinless life. Just because you haven't murdered in the physical sense doesn't mean you haven't in your desires. Just because you haven't slept with someone who isn't your spouse doesn't mean you haven't thought about and desired it. The Lord weighs the heart because from it springs our daily active life. We will never measure up to perfection.
I don't know why this panel of learned men don't seem to grasp this historically understood passage of Christ's teachings.
How brilliant people you are
..speak hard English ..I don’t understand anything ..can someone translate in Hindi
Praying for Dennis. He needs to reread to Genesis to understand original sin and embrace our savior Christ
Lógos and agapè, love wisely. It is precisely the true meaning of philosophy. Philosophia, which is love of wisdom but also wisdom of love, is wisdom and love (although philia is not agapè).
The example from Matthew 5-7 has to be a change coming from oral tradition.
maybe oneday i might be able have a table with 10 philosopher friends at a table to talk about the bible.
erotic effect vs lust is different. there is active choice in lusting after. Its to do with " you cant help birds flying over your head but can prebent them making nest on your head"
Tim Mackie needs to be on this panel
i want to listen more
Jordan sir, please invite Ray Comfort 😊
Revelation 19:11-16. Revelation 20:4-6. Psalms 1:1-6. Malakias 1:11.
Read the sermon on the mount to know what lust and sexual sin is. It’s not hard to understand, unless you don’t want to