Rebalancing FE4 - The "Cannon" Pairings
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- The Patch: www.mediafire.com/file/8sfrut...
Project Naga: forums.serenesforest.net/inde...
Lunar IPS for patching: www.romhacking.net/utilities/...
0:00 - Intro
1:23 - Noish
2:46 - Alec
3:28 - Arden
3:59 - Lex
4:46 - Azel
5:51 - Midir
6:52 - Dew
8:05 - Jamka
8:38 - Holyn
9:32 - Lewyn
9:39 - Beowulf
10:19 - Claud
11:33 - Outro
12:56 - The Real Best Dad 
Игры
noish with pursuit is one of the most blursed images i have ever seen
hi
@@776Mine hello
When randomizers put Life on a lot of your characters you'll understand the pain of sitting through unskippable "WOOP WOOP WOOP" at the start of every player phase.
"Noish wants to pair with Erinys and Lachesis"
...I always pair Noish with Ayra... He gives Scathach and Larcei some really great skills and allows Scathach to inherit some decent swords
I do Jamke. Which is why I cannot tolerate him losing Adept here.
Fe4 Top rankers: “Lex Tailtu is optimal”
Honestly I like the idea but the only thing is im against giving characters holy blood. I always interpreted holy blood as something really special that was only in few people, giving it to even more people would make those who have it feel more samey.
Specially because the birth of Holy blood was 100 years before the start of the gameso except bastards or childs of those should be extremely rare. Silvia and Azel fulfill those roles, because remember Silvia isn't the sister of Claude and she is probably descendant of other Braggi child.
Huh, so that's why my Lester was garbage on my first playthrough.
I just wanted Azel to be happy :(
I wish you had more subs. I know that’s a generic RUclips comment but I love this sorta discussion and genuinely think people who talk and consider this part of game design deserve recognition for making people think a bit more on how a game should be.
I think swapping Tiltyu's inheritance is a better buff for Claude than giving him skills. It doesn't really help with Aideen but it lets Tinny use Valkyrie on promo, which feels more interesting compared to Azel and Levin, tho he's not technically part of the conversation.
That's a great idea, I totally agree. Unfortunately my romhacking skills are pretty limited and I have no idea how I'd actually implement that. probably possible, but for now an ideal theoretical.
well changing inheritance is not that hard with nightmare specifically the children editor where you can change the major influence parent hope that helps
@@RCwyatt917 you still get Holsety, just not on a mount like with Arthur. Which is busted anyway so it’s kind of fair.
@@Psychout50 In hindsight, with the L/R ambiguity of Japanese translations, I now see how the pun horse-seti isn't a very good one when trying to convey information. Having thought about your idea a bit I've come to 3 conclusions:
1. It would overall make the balance better for the goal of the video
2. I already drastically changed many other characters in the game; I can let go of mounted Holsety
3. It wouldn't quite fit in the video since I was only changing dads, and that would fall under mothers in my opinion
If I, or anyone else, was to redo this concept with the option of changing the mothers in mind, your idea would be an excellent one.
(Sorry if this pings you, I accidently deleted the comment) the issue is, unless I'm mistaken, that would make tinny always takes from the father, which actually isn't that bad an idea, but I would miss horsety. Ideally it'd be swapped in only the claude pairing, which isn't as easily done as far as I know.
Its always fun to come up with ideas for how to rebalance FE4, either way everyone can Agree that Arden needs help.
Is Holyn Lewyn's uncle now?
I guess that if they ever remake FE4 they would change the inheritance mechanics. Good changes though.
Some of those make little to no sense considering their personalities. From the gameplay perspective it's great to be able to pair them in any combination, but narratively it's silly. So i decided to pair them based on their characters.
Aideen and Jamke, even if he's not the best option gameplay wise.
Erin and Lewyn were basically set in stone even before confirming it in Thracia.
Raquesis and Beowulf.
Bridget and Holyn, otherwise her becoming a swordmaster in Thracia seems rather random.
Taillte and Azel.
Sylvia and Claud. Though Alec wouldn't be a bad option either.
The only one i had trouble with was Ayra. Both Noish and Lex are great options for her. I ultimately went with Noish.
As for adding Holy Blood to a character it would make sense if it was split into major, moderate and minor.
Major - direct descendants and their close family (Ethlyn, Azel, Taillte, Lex, Ayra, Johan, Johalvier etc.).
Moderate - a very distant family (Holyn, Oifey, Sylvia etc.)
Minor - those who's family went through generations without Holy Blood (could be Finn, Noish, Alec or even Arden).
That way most characters could have Holy Blood as an indication of their origin. If Noish had minor Nova blood it would indicate that his family hails from Northern Thracia, but they moved to Granvalle and for generations they were commoners and thus lost most of the Holy Blood.
This is an interesting theorycraft, though I feel it overlooks a crucial detail- the second generation was not designed with any of these pairing tools in mind. Kaga built the game under the assumption that you'd have the substitutes, and anything beyond that is merely a bonus.
By balancing the dads for their child's potential, and not *their own* potential, you risk making a large chunk of gen 1's cast play in ways completely counter to what people like about them.
Taking Bargain away from Dew for example hampers his most crucial asset- money management. His ability to buy items for the arena, then trade them in when he's done for no extra cost is completely gone.
Meanwhile, the same skill is totally superfluous on Jamke, a character who requires virtually no monetary investment, due to his immediate Killer Bow access, and good performance in the arena. Archers in this game tend to be the least financially risky characters because their maintenance cost is so negligible you'd have to purposefully burn money in order to not have a full wallet.
These two character undoubtedly suffer, and for what? Not the potential performance of all their children, no, the potential performance of *certain* children. The upsides to giving characters more advantageous pairings may never be seen by a player.
On the other side of balance changes, there's Wrath Arden. I adore this change, the skill is just a natural fit for the character. It gives him better pairing potential, and also benefits him in the main gameplay, and the arena. It's an all-around improvement over Vantage, and that's what I look for in rebalances.
Though I don't think your goal was to fix the game as a whole through this mechanic...
Either way, I appreciate the effort.
(also I know how to do some cool FE4 hacking stuff, hmu if you wanna know how to swap inheritance and other cool stuff)
My pairings:
Midir + Aideen
Holyn + Ayra
Lewyn + Fury (naturally)
Raquess + Beowulf
Jamke + Brigid
Azel + Tiltyu
Claude + Sylvia
You know Fin actually does have canon pairings, he just doesn't talk to the mother. In gen 2 after you conquer Darna he has a conversation with his daughter and gives her +5 to her stat depending on who she is. Lana gets magic, Nanna gets speed, and Ayra's daughter whose name I cannot spell gets skill. Levin has daughter conversations too but I think leaving him alone makes the most sense since I don't want to see him nerfed to make other pairings more viable XD
I really love your content! I like to give my pursiut ring to noish then give it to jamke so lester can get pursuit
Noish and Lester are some of the best choices for the pursuit band in each generation. Lester in particular stands out since among the kids that want pursuit, he's the only one whose sibling doesn't need it, making him an ideal choice.
@@RCwyatt917 hard agree with this. Noish is a no brainer he becomes significantly better. In my two runs he has outperformed alec everytime because of this (alec also had terrible rolls) lester also becomes a monster however i have only used him once as my edain died in my 1st run. Your channel has inspired me to potentially make fire emblem videos in my channel. I wish you the best and i look forward to watching your vida
The best dad in all of Fire Emblem is Finn. Just ask Leif and Nanna.
That aside, great video. I love playing FE4, I love these videos.
So, I agree with almost all of these, except Dew. Dew for me has always been my most consistent unit, and I always relied on him because for some reason, he ends up being one of the units with highest DEF in my runs, making him pair up with Ayra being my default choice most of the time. Him not having bargain also makes me jittery inside my Larcei without bargain would make me cry once I repair her silver blade, even if by that point I have more money than I'd like to admit.
Also, him having braggi blood would mean that if paired up with Sylvia, their children would have major holy blood, which is pretty funny to think about.
And on that topic, character skills for me are like an unit's personality put into the gameplay. Someone like Dew having critical makes it feel like it would go against his spunky thieve attitude who steals but isn't exactly keen on killing people unless it is required. It ups his utility as a combat unit during the first generation just a tad, which I like, but again, the braggi blood as whole lot fuckery that could be done with, taking him from being Ayra's more stable choice as parent, to like, pretty much being behind of only base Holyn.
I like Holyn having forsetti blood though, even if it wouldn't normally fit the combat style of the Hero Class, it makes sense to compliment Ayra's skill with New Holyn's speed; making their children pretty damn busted at both the early, mid AND endgame.
That intro is relatable
I really liked pairing Raquesis and Chulainn together but I really wish the children could inherit luna
I really don’t like a lot of the complete retooling of skills. Giving Noish pursuit and removing it from Alec is just strange. I think it could have been more interesting with less drastic reworking and more small additions like an extra life here, some minor holy blood there.
Something that would be interesting to see in a patch, is that the three elemental magics would have these characteristics. Fire, heavy but more powerful. Thunder, the intermediate in terms of power, but with a better hit. Wind, the weakest, but the lightest.
What did you do to change up the skills, growth rates, and Holy Blood? I want to make my own changes to the base game.
My way of thinking for determining what is the "go-to" pairing is seeing what the kids have as class and equippable.
Ayra: Ulster has swords only, so Holyn makes most sense
Aideen: Lester is bow knight, so midir is the obvious one, though you can make an argument for Jamke
Raquesis: Dermott is a sword knight, pretty obvious it is Beowulf.
Ein: Her son is a sage most proficient in Wind, so Lewyn
Sylvia: Her son is a Priest, just like Claude
Tailtu: Many thinking of Lewyn as the go-to pairing, but since Arthur would be a mage knight, Azel makes more sense. I also have a thing for fire+thunder combo
Bridget: Kinda obvious it is Dew since her daughter Patty is a thief
What software did you use to create this patch? I'd like to try making one for myself
While Midir's rebalance would probably help in keeping his Lester from standing head and shoulders above Edain's other pairings, I think it would end up hurting him in the first half of the game.
Midir already stands on shakier ground compared to the rest of the mounted units. His enemy phase is poor due to being Bow locked, and his growths are generally quite weak, even for a gen 1 unit. If you pair him with Edain, you also have to leave Midir behind to get support with Edain, giving him even less experience (which admitedly isnt much of a problem because bow users have pretty lopsided arena matchups but its another factor hindering him).
He carves out a niche for himself because of accost, it gives him a way to punch holes through bulky armor knights. Most other units cant replicate this without wasting brave weapons, which are highly contested, valuable, and the earliest you get one is chapter 1. Of course there ARE other accost users, but Midir is a ranged unit, meaning he fears counter attacks much less than Beowolf, Noish, and Ethlyn, and joins earlier than Jamke and Beowolf, allowing him to contribute in chapter 1 and 2 more.
Without Accost, Midir's already middling combat gets hindered even harder due to simply hitting less. he doesnt become a good combat unit unless he steals the killer bow from Jamke or until chapter 4 where he can get the brave bow from Edain should they be married. Adept might be a little more consistent but Midir really WANTS the 4th attack it gives him a lot of the time.
However i do understand why you would make this change. You cant really nerf anything about Midir without making him even more shit than losing accost would for him.
Where can ibget rom for this?
all that rebalancing of dads just for Lex to come in and steal yo girl anyway!
but ye I like vanilla pairing setup. I like the limits it puts on the player. If you buff characters to fit a pairing, that also kinda breaks/influences other pairings. This is just going over some funny stuff given the numbers. You never said this made the game better, just a fun thought experiment of stuff this would change that you didn't note in the video.
Give Lex 20% magic growth? Suddenly Lex Erinys gives Ced 25% magic growth and Fee can have a 20% magic growth, 40% strength growth, AND a repulsing 70% defense growth on a FLIER! 25% magic is not insane, but it's comparable to Lewyn's 35%, and people give him Noish in vanilla where he has 10% magic growth (albeit with better combat skills outside of Paragon, which Ced doesn't really need). Or Raquesis, where Nanna gets a huge buff to her usually pitiful magic on a staff user and just needs to get a pursuit ring on Lex for Diarmuid, both getting super tanky and high strength. This even puts him in contention with Aideen, as a bit of magic growth for Lana and a pursuit ring/killer bow for Lester would make them both pretty good, just getting the killer bow on Lex in gen 1 and Lester gen 2 will be tricky either way. This is how it should be; Lex is the best father for every kid and I support this new world order.
Azel with strength? Cool, give him to Raquesis for both kids to get pursuit, Nanna now has a 40% magic growth and 60% strength growth, and Diarmuid gets 60% speed growth (lower skill growth, but he wouldn't have any combat skills anyway and swords don't tend to struggle with hit, plus his promotion gives him 9 skill).
Charm on Alec just means 2 more kids get charm. I simply worry the implications of 4 kids with charm, since it stacks for each unit. Very hard to argue not giving him to at least somebody, probably Sylvia's kids since they're trash combat wise and are relegated to support anyway.
Jamke with bargain just puts him as the defacto "I'm not taking Ayra's kids out of the castle" dad instead of Dew.
Critical, Life, and minor Bragi blood are incredible for Fee; she wants higher magic/res, she wants extra combat strength and power from Dew's growths and critical, she already gets Adept and pursuit, and she even gets health regen to help her stay isolated from the party, the thing she's meant to do. Health regen doesn't save you from bows though.
Chullain with Accost would be awesome for Febail. That pairing gets him to 175% hp growth, easily reaching the 80 hp cap and a 40% base chance to Accost at full hp, boosted by his speed. I'd prefer him with Od blood though since Patty gets better swords and Luna and both kids get skill, both of them struggling with that more than speed (70 hit on a holy weapon that costs 1k gold to fire geez). Machine gun Larcei too with all the 'hit again' skills.
Claud is already a great father for Fee and Ced, critical and miracle push them even further and basically make him as good as or better than Lewyn for them if Forseti didn't exist.
Midir better for Fee. Baldr blood nice for her sword rank and her growths. Can give to Ayra to give both kids adept and shut up Larcei fans. Honestly most significant thing I see is now with Adept the killer bow on Aideen's son might be better in some parts of the game than the brave bow, given he can triple and crit on a single lighter, more accurate weapon that takes less uses rather than just quad on a less accurate weapon.
How to patch in android by using naga?
To rebalance Claud/Azelle!Lester they should had a magic bow
Can we get a remaster for the really old fire emblem games
Noisy with pursuit ring? Nobody else really needs it and he can pass it down, I’ve only beat the game once so what do you think
I like it a lot more on Ethlyn since Leif is a lot more important than most other kids thanks to Master Knight being broken.
@@epicgamer6678 But leif can still do it, and at a good pace. Give him enough rings to sell to earn enough money for the paragon band, and let him fight a lot of enemies. I managed to do it on a max rank run, though I save stated on a few arenas. I also managed to get Leif promoted halfway through chapter 8.
@@spongbobsquarepants3922 Yeah my perspective kinda changed in 2 months. I prefer it on Lewyn!Arthur now.
@@epicgamer6678 Sure, but you can give it to lewyn in chapter 5, and have noish use it until then.
Hey, does this patch still work? Im really interested in playing it.
It should, you just need to make sure your use it on a rom that's already patched with project naga
Yea I tried both the old and new Naga patches but it always seems to break and never spawn Noish, weird.
@@veko7099 Weird, I'll play around with it later to see if I can figure out the problem, thanks for letting me know
@@veko7099 Sorry, later turned into a couple days later. After some testing, it seems to work for me, I was getting issues with the headered version of project naga, so make sure to use the unheadered. Other than that, the likely issue would be the rom, so perhaps try to find an alternative one.
@@RCwyatt917 Thanks, finally got it to work after changing the rom and using unheadered.
The problem with NoishXFury is that ced will be god awful but fee will be godlike in the early game so it’s worth it.
In my experience LexXFury is better
@@avinadadmendez4019 paragon and vantage is good but what about passable weapons?
knock knock, it's bias
you really should consider Balmung Ulster
Doing that is such a weird exploit that I don't really think it should be something considered. Even if it is though, what advantage does Balmung Ulster have over Balmung Shanan? (Despite that I do think its really cool that it is something you can do in the game, It's just more fun than it is good)
@@RCwyatt917 with incredible Skl base and growth we can assume 30 skl with just a lv20 Ulster combine that with Balmunga you have a very high chance of proccing either Luna or Astra. not like you need such overkill combat anyway but some bosses like ch10 Julius are fun to kill this way.
@@RCwyatt917 ulster solo run
the real best dad is always Lex because Elite.
Makes training the kid a breeze.
Shit Tiltyu + Lex is fantastic, Lex + Sylvia too imagine having an easy time training sylvia AND corpul. Imagine having no problems training the sword twins who takes forever to walk around and reach the enemy.
(This comment will be Edited a lot, then Reposted as a Final Draft).
Cal me a Masochist, or a Diehard FE4 fan, but I think not all of the "Bad Cannon Pairings" are Bad. It's just a different play style for each of them. I prefer the Base game, but your ideas are not bad to listen to. Anyways, here is a rant on how "Bad Cannon Pairings" are IMO
Noish/Lachesis Is a terrible one For sure. I can Hardly Defend it in any way. I mean I always use Both of Lachesis kids for Charm support, so That does not really change. All this Pairing Does is make Dermott Slightly Better than Tristan (His sub) by Having Accost and a much higher Strength and HP growth, but Nanna Heals, so who cares.
Sylvia/Alec is Bad. Don't Pair up Sylvia. why waste Nihil and Pursuit, 2 Good Skills, on non-combat units? This was definitely some sort of twisted Jokes by the devs. As for Alec/Brigid, I think It's very Wasteful, Considering Patty learns Pursuit Upon promotion and Faval has it at Base class. You only get Sword inheritance with Nihil standing out, which is somewhat Wasted on 2 not so good units. So I agree it Being Yellow/Mediocre.
The Arden Pairings are also Mediocre, but I just see Arden as a Weaker Lex pairing with no Pursuit and no Neir Blood, which means the Daughter has a 20% Defense Growth Difference than the Son. He gives swords unlike Lex, but I rather have Paragon and Neir blood than weapon inheritance.
Lex/Tailtyu is Actually not as bad as people tend to mark it. Wrath/Vantage really Shines, but only after Arthur Promotes and Obtains Thoron, which gives him 40 Base attack when Wrath/Vantage is activating (Seeing as Thoron has 20 base Might and Crit Doubles total attack in this game). This increases to 50 with a Magic Band. I did an experiment and sadly, Arthur is just short on a few magic points in Chapter 6 to Kill off Hand axe Cavaliers with Ease (Although Oifey could soften them and then Arthur can finish them with Vantage). Overall, Lex/Tailtyu is a fun Gimmick, but I would mark it Yellow.
Azelle/Aideen is not Bad. Yes, you get a screwed Lester, but he has Pursuit and can Kill fliers, which is honestly his best role. It suck to have a weak bow knight that only amounts to chip to Non-fliers but you get a good Lana once she promotes at least.
Midir/Brigid is ultra mediocre and you explained why easily. Beowulf is literally better for midir all except with Aideen.
God, stop acting like the canon pairings should be the best. What a mook take.
Noish usually dies alone in my playthroughs because Lachesis gets matched with Finn