If I could have called this anything, it probably would have been "subtle things *anyone* can tell, after 20 years of playing and 6 years of music school, about the quality of someone's drumming". But I had to make it shorter. But, to be clear, I'm not claiming to be on a higher echelon, or sitting in judgment. On the contrary, I'm still not great at a lot of these skills. My only point is - people with a lot of performance experience under high-stakes can hear more subtle things than the average untrained youtube watcher who's like "THIIIS IIIIS AAAAAWESOME" under every drum solo. But, as I said, many of them would also take issue with aspects of *my* playing. So it's not me judging you. It's them judging all of us ;)
Hey man, don't worry about some of these trolls. you are the most down to earth "here's what it really takes" drum/music adviser I've seen on here. And yea, that's what you are. You fill a very specific niche of instruction, and I don't even think you realized how good you were at it until you started doing it, and developing content. Don't take this wrong, but I think you tend to discourage some people, because the skills you illustrate are not achievable by everyone. Certainly not me. But that's why pro's are pro's. And that's why your channel is the real shit. If people have a dream, and by listening to you they realize it ain't gonna happen, they should be thankful. It's ok, right? It's not the end of the damn world. Anyway, you keep doing what you're doing.
Nate man... You have a way of putting things that I respect more than I can explain, and I love your honesty and humility to be able to admit that when you are talking about "Pro" or "Legit" musicians, you are not necessarily saying that this is you. Thank you for the work that you do, these concept videos are always bang on, and although I think some of these (like the figures stuff) may be to the higher echelons of jazz drumming and maybe not show that there are some rock drummers out there who play solid time and are still legit as hell, I understand, and love everything that you are opening people up to.... Keep on man... love this stuff :D
@@ray32245mv I would disagree that you the skills are not achievable by you or everyone, as long as you are willing to put in the time you can get there man, just find the thing that drives you to learn it and go like a freight train ;) you've got this. But also I agree Nate has some lovely stuff in there :D
Nothing wrong with learning how to improve upon techniques! I don't pick up and learn songs quickly though. I don't see how it's possible. I'm sure I'm overthinking, but I also don't know if having autism affects the "natural" feel of picking it up though.
tiny b great comment ...you win and the prize is every drumming video on RUclips to praise or criticise at your leisure....thanks for the best laugh I’ve had all week
depends on the value of the guitar you play and look like you got the doe.sorry its not how good you are there now if you go to a jam and they want you to 2 songs in stead of 4 your not doing well if you are asked to do another set with a full house you rock.
We need to remind (or inform) ourselves that this guy is talking about pro level session drumming as a career - who makes the cut and who doesn't, and why. He's not talking about the casual musicianship in most underground bands out there. I've played in a few bands. Indie/Alternative/Hardcore crap. We played live. Recorded in studio. We weren't very good, but we had fun and got some compliments. Just one of a million amateur bands out there having fun. Just know he is talking about pro talent, not the rest of us, and as for the rest of us, don't worry about being awesome. Be as good as you have the inclination to be, have fun, admire your betters and help those beneath you.
In the early '90s, I played in a band with a drummer who was too good to be with us (But, we were in Alaska, so gigs were few and far between). He embodied all of these. I really remember when he sat in with us for the first time. We gave him a beat and rolled into an original. Almost immediately, he had found the perfect rhythm and caught the changes beautifully. The best moment was the finale where we had a one beat pause, then a replay of the intro line just before the end of the song. He stopped at the pause, thinking it was the end. When he heard it wasn't he waited for the guitarist to play a few bars until the PERFECT moment to come back in with the main rhythm mixed with some simple fills, H ended at the true ending as though he'd known it all along. It was so perfect, it became a part of the song. Haven't seen him in years, I hope he's still playing out...
People with that superb amount of skill are adept at taking the moment with their level of adroit abilities and leave one feeling as though it was a serendipitous moment.
I did the exact same thing when I sat behind the drums with some dudes from another band and I'm a guitarist. It's intuition. Song patterns are repetitive. There's only so many options. So the drummer listened and knew when to get back in bc he's seen/heard it before from other musicians.
Guitarist here: when my band finally found a drummer that not only could find 1, but stayed in the pocket, he complimented me on my ability to play on time (an apparent rarity for him among guitarists). I had to tell him that I was merely competent, he was the one who locked in so well. I ain't too proud to admit it: the drummer has the sole power to make or break a band.
I went to an audition once (being a drummer) and the bass and guitar were never in the same time. They would play and I would have to adjust to one of them with the other way out. I have noticed a guitarist tends to chase the Bass no matter how many times he goes of time so I agree with your drummer.
at the same time, i've played with drummers with uneven meters. We all sped up and slowed down to make everything fit. It was weird but drummers are hard to find in small towns.
One thing that is, IMO, super helpful for a drummer is to have an understanding of chords and melody/harmony. Being able to hear transitions coming, or being able to know where you are by hearing the chords, is indispensable. Just because you aren't playing pitches notes doesn't mean you don't benefit a lot from understanding pitches and chords and chord progressions.
Ego and self consciousness will kill you in public. I always played best when I didn't care about anything or anyone; I was just having fun. But I never did well in the studio, because the pressure of "this has got to be right" was so distracting.
People who haven't spent thousands of hours practicing alone in a room barely big enough to fit your kit in have no idea what you're talking about lololol.
@@vodalavoid no one is saying to be a human metronome. But if a drummer concentrates on the groove the cool fills and colorings happen at the right place and at the right time. Otherwise, people play just to play when all musicians should serve the music and not themselves.
Tim Koupe yeah but it’s about the music, not about archaic this and that and your opinion on this and that. Every song and genre is different and unless it’s a drum heavy genre (and even those have fills within context) you’re complaints are invalid about holding a groove or not. YOU might want to hear fills everywhere but nobody else does. Especially if it’s on top of everyone one else’s stuff.
@@MarioSilva-jg5nh yeah this dude doesn't get music. I play multiple instruments and listen to almost every genre. And that comment is not hitting the point at all. Like no shit over playing is called overplaying for a reason and yes a groove is needed? Hello.. but what about the main point, playing an instrument in this case the drums, with some damn musical competence and human feeling!
in 30+ years of playing professionally, i've yet to be hired because i can play a 7/8 groove, can play a kickass drum solo, or can play a 32nd note fill. i'm hired because i listen, i watch, i know where 1 is, i play with a strong backbeat, i can play multiple styles, and i know how to bring a band in or take it out...
@Stephen j ya, i don't think so. drummers among musicians specially fall into the trap of thinking that if you can't play a one-handed roll or play a 32nd note filled solo one is not "good." i happen to disagree.
@@aiden_macleod Well done Aiden. You grabbed the wrong end of the stick and ran off with it. He did NOT say he has NOT been hired merely that when he WAS hired it was NOT because he can 'play a 7/8 groove, can play a kickass drum solo, or can play a 32nd note fill. I'm hired because I listen' Next time look before you leap!
@@sandc411 I agree with you, What keeps me working in my golden years is understanding that I'm not there to say 'dig me'. I'm there because my job is to make everyone else sound good.
@@brentjohnson7044 I live in Denver, worked on the East Coast, West and Midwest. I heard the expression "lock in" almost everywhere, but never "lock up".
Yep, I’m from Staten Island and he was filming on 26th st in Brooklyn in this video. Growing up playing in NYC, we’ve always said “locking in”. Same with my dads generation of players. But this guy may not be a native NY’er.
I know! sometimes when I play with a different kick pedal than my one I struggle to get double strokes out of the kick when the tension is too tight or too loose. If the tension is really loose though I sometimes struggle to get a decent amount of power out of the kick. That's why I always carry a drum key on me in the worst-case scenario for any part of the drum kit. For the most part though I can adapt to 95 percent of kick pedals I play.
@@nameloss I've played enough kits with crappy thrones, so as long as I have my pedal i can hit doubles fine - triples sometimes might be wonky at first.
Spring tension is huge, but so is the snare (for me). The way it sounds and is tuned has a huge impact on the way I play. I used to look down on drummers who had to use their own snare when they played somewhere else - but now I totally get it.
I have a complimentary one to number one. A pro drummer will always always always find a way to signal to the band about section changes, recently I had to do a recording session to a really “obtuse” and un even song in the way that choruses and verses came in and out, I found the first pass hard to navigate (the producer was useless) until I remembered the drummer was a good friend of mine who’s an incredible session drummer. The moment I started “Listening” like a hawk for his signaling was the moment I started enjoying the weirdness of the session.
Yes! Non-verbals during tunes. Also, #7, knowing instinctively how far "out" or off the beat they can play without losing the band. (That one's more jazz)
@@8020drummer there's an amazing open mic of musicians jamming together in NH... with a full backline (even brushes or guitar picks!!)...and so I started jumping on the drums (b/c I always wanted to play drums but couldn't afford them or a place to practice)....and since it's ALL improvised, and I'm often playing with musicians I've never met nor spoken to (!!)... I LOVE TO PUSH them... as only the Drummer can! Soooo much fun! EX: if someone goes into a famous cover song... I will consistently fuck with them by repeatedly changing up the beat (since everyone already knows the song) and ENTIRE feel of the song, and they have to keep up. SO MUCH FUN! [It's a really casual environment so no attitudes or concern for doing everything "right"!] And as the 30 minute slots near their end, i often will SPEED up more and more and say "let's GET SOME EXERCISE IN!!!" I love HOW the drummer can completely control all the other musicians, and I play with that a lot! (I love making artists Problem Solve!)
This is something I was always good at. Sadly, life got in the way and I didn't make time to continue playing like I would like to, now, at 40, I'm just getting back into drumming again and am NO WHERE NEAR gig ready, but I'm having fun in my basement!
I can totally attest to the difference between playing on your own and playing live.. I was a bad drummer on my own, but I was f**king terrible playing a gig lol
I have to agree with you, but I think there is more. I actually saw two bands in two different rooms at a bar where the one was trying to play a lot of notes and the band even touted his ability and the other was quiet and unassuming. I told a friend of mine the quiet guy was light years ahead of the other guy. He doubted me. But that quiet guy was well in the pocket as he should be, very tasteful fills, you could immediately see that his skill level was above the other bandmates and he was actually playing pretty far down compared to his skills and a little bored of it. His lack of notes did not take away from the solid technique, feel, and sense of time he had. You know, as far as guys telling you that you don't have the hands someone else does, Steve Gadd can play circles around 99% of us. Most of the time he doesn't. It's certainly not because he can't. The song doesn't call for it, and playing lots of fast notes isn't even the point. Feel, sound, and originality trump chops any day.
@@neocollective Not always. It depends on the music. Are you going to ask a drummer in a prog metal band to play only 4/4? Of course not. Unless the challenge is to play 4/4 while the band is playing 7/8 on top of it...
SpikeFlea ; It even goes beyond genres. I happen to like drummers who leave no space at all, but instead play with a huge range of dynamics and ghost notes. It's a matter of choice and taste. Having said that, a drummer is only good when he's good. I mean, you can play whatever you want, but if you don't nail it, you fucked up, no matter how many or how little notes you play.
@@mariodriessen9740 Very well said. What it comes down to is A) being skilled enough to *correctly* execute whatever is played and B) playing for the song. Within B though, there can be lots of room for interpretation. I agree with you on the drumming. I also naturally gravitate towards drummers who are more melodic in their expression. But they also tend to play in musical projects that allow for that expression. In other words, a melodic drummer would not make sense in AC/DC, and it would no longer be AC/DC as a result. But that doesn't mean the new incarnation would necessarily be bad if the drummer's parts fit and are properly executed.
#4 totally trough, my band hired a session drummer to record our demo, he went into the practice run, played one time, took notes, played the second time with some of his suggestions, we approved; went to recording room and BAM nailed it on one take
When I think of how well I can play at home, compared to the stage, I am often disappointed after a gig. It is a damn hard thing to play really fluently in front of live audiences. This is one of main things that separate the pros from the rest - pros stay cool under pressure - not just in music but in sports and other endeavors.
Great video, i would get the "how do you know" question from friends when seeing bands. It's hard to explain than even the way the kit can be set up gives you a clue, tuning and just how they start the tune, but as a drummer who was terrible at playing live as i suffered from extreme public anxiety i know that you can be better in private than in public. I came to accept that i wasn't able to play well in public but realise that the less you do, it can't really get better. I have zero opportunity to play in bands at the moment but i do manage to play while i'm waiting for my son to get out of the shower bucket and he often comes and sings along when he gets out. Great work and you always inspire me to rethink about all things drumming. Thanks Nate.
5 лет назад
Hey DoubleBass (me too) nice response. Playing stages with direct lighting helped me get over stage fright since I couldn't see anyone out there anyway. I enjoy watching folks enjoy, and really love it when they want more drums! Yaaay! Pretty soon you can't wait to kick the crowd into party gear! It's the drummer's job to get the feet loose and hopping & bopping. Think about it, you are the proud beat-maker. Own it.
I worked with a dude in a music store who was an Eddie Van Halen savant. He would plug in a $100 Korean strat into a $59 fender 15w amp and just rip EVH and sound just like him. He sold cheap strats and cheap amps but they always came back because the customers couldn’t get that crap set up to sound like Eddie. That just proved once again that tone is in the fingers.
Rodzilla5332; That's one thing (and very true indeed), but do you recognize this?: I've been a guitar teacher for many years and I've heard and seen so many people who truely believed they could play that Steve Vai solo, or one of Eddie's, or Satriani, you name them. And then you ask 'em to play it and you hear what you expected all along. Yes, they practiced on the parts and they could play the notes, but the timing sucked, the phrasing was terrible, it lacked all the dynamics, the feel, the story, you'd hear noises, because they didn't understand that muting strings is just as important as hitting them.... AND THEY JUST DON'T HEAR ALL THAT!!! I'm not the best guitar player on earth (believe me), but atleast I KNOW I'm not. Atleast I can tell when I'm off. Atleast I know what I'm good at and what I suck at. And that's so important, 'cause when you know that stuff you can actually do very well by focusing and improving on your strong points, while ditching the weak.
Gil Green ; I’m talking about new students mostly. I will always be honest and tell them that there’s more to playing music than repeating a bunch of notes. Some students will pick it up and will work on it, others will never get it. If it was easy, everybody would be a master guitarist. If not succeeding in turning every student into an amazingly good guitar player makes me a bad guitar teacher, then I am a bad guitar teacher. Happy?
I remember in the 70's when I was an aspiring jazz player on guitar and trumpet studying with Don Cherry, he would point out the difference between playing time and playing rhythm. That to me forms the basis of "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Swing". Check out Ed Blackwell on Complete Communion (Blue Note) or dozens of other recordings. My brother Dave who is a drummer would point out to me how he followed the polyrhythms his teacher (Elvin Jones) was playing and I never was able to hear the counting in my head while brother Dave could call out Elvin's 1 shifting and reuniting with Chip Jackson's bass playing in a different time signature on the same song. One time we were with a tabla player who was explaining a 4 against 7 cycle and Dave easily demonstrated it snapping 4 with one had against 7 with the other. Bottom line for me is I like this video because I learned something about hearing a deeper level of musicality. Well done. Much appreciated.
Steve Herzfeld so cool that you and you're brother were able to study with Don and Elvin. Mind elaborating on the differences playing time and playing rhythm?
@@iqiu753 I'm not a drummer and a point that 80/20 makes very well is that there is a lot going on in playing that listeners may not hear. Don Cherry was not someone who elaborated much verbally so when he pointed something out you had to unpack it for your own use. Some of what he said I'm still getting a lot of new utility out of. Basically my understanding regarding time and rhythm is that strictly only playing time is something a machine can do well and perhaps even more accurately than a human. The expression "beating the drum" sums up the subtle value of not caring for the life breath of the music. Playing rhythm involves finding a pulse that the body and soul of a listener can move with. That feeling that comes out of a bass and drum "rhythm section" that makes the music swing. Time can be described as "an eighth note gets one beat and there are 6 beats in a measure" while rhythm is what makes Coltrane's "Afro Blue" and "My Favorite Things" grab your soul.
The bucket drummer(s) in the intro are superb. I'm glad they were mentioned because I've seen them several times on the platforms and with each time I am blown away by not just their energy, but their groove. There are plenty of bucket drummers out there who have blinding speed but have absolutely no groove. I've always wanted the opportunity to pay my respects to the bucket drummer(s), and I'm glad this video game me that chance.
After 43 years of playing, music scholarship, being a recording professional and pro live player, I’d say you’re pretty much on the money. Good vid man.
>Be me, stumble across this video, read the comments >See people banging on the video creator for using Aric Improta as an example of someone not "locking up" with a band. >Decide to search YT to see if they are right. He rocks hard. >Have to go about 15 videos down to find him playing with a band instead of solo. >He plays triple forte the entire song, completely drowning out the guys playing with him. This includes dropping into a fill during his bandmate's solo (oof). My 2 cent Conclusion: Dude is a badass drummer *and* there is also evidence for what is being claimed here. Everyone is right (and wrong). This is typical of how life on social media goes, right?
OK, so the first two times I saw "copyright countdown: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1," I literally thought that was the name of some complicated play-along track with rapidly descending time signature changes 5/4, 4/4, 3/4 etc... and some metric modulation that was causing me not to hear the changes. I was like, "GAH, I can't hear it! I suck at drumming!" I finally realized it was literally about avoiding copyright infringement. LOL. Sometimes I overthink...
Haha! You've hit on a good point there! When learning/practicing an instrument (I assume you're a drummer, as I am), it's hard to mentally escape from it. So you end up missing the wood for the trees, as the saying goes.
As you said, being able to learn a song quickly is really important if you want to get lots of work. When I did commercial studio work, standard procedure was one read-through of the chart with the band, take notes from the producer (if any), then roll tape, and 95% of the time we only did one take. Same with subbing with bands - if I was lucky I'd get one rehearsal where we went through each song for the gig once, I'd take notes if needed, and that was it. There were plenty of drummers with better chops and flashier skills, but I got the gigs because of the points you made. Good video!
After 40 years of playing... and now getting ready for jazzy Christmas tunes... this statement helped me more than anything I've ever been taught behind the kit: 10:54 When non-trained people see a drummer playing, they are not doing something musical pros can't help but do, counting in their heads. After 25 years of playing and six years of music school, pros literally can't help but counting along. It's a survival instinct hone from thousands of hours "hanging on for dear life"...
Hahaha, so true, best drummer I ever played with was a really unorthodox metal dude, we had a short lived band. He was so driving and tight that my playing began to really tighten up even when I jammed with other people, they were saying: "man, you're playing's getting real sharp lately, what's happened?". The problem was the guy was batshit insane...nice guy but he was basically the local Keith Moon...one night coming back from a party I was driving him home and he jumped on my while I was driving and began violently molesting my nipples for no real reason, I nearly crashed into a power pole...he thought it was hilarious!
This is very interesting. As a bass player I strive for solid time, clear sound, appropriate loudness/softness, respecting/enhancing the song, and a certain amount of creativity. I would be happy when the drummer possesses these skills as well. It's up to the two of us to lock in and make for a good experience for everyone from fellow musicians to the audience. Whether playing in the street, church, or jazz club, you want to be asked to come back again. The key in my mind is to strive for the things that make good musicians want to play with you. You have to possess a certain quality for that to happen. It's especially helpful to discuss the components of that quality. Well, back to practicing, and thanks for this video.
You said your friend couldn't hear it, but I think that, subconsciously, people with untrained ears still 'feel' it... it's what ultimately makes these skills your discussing 'objective'. If finding the one didn't matter, even to the layman, any drummer would do, but people naturally gravitate to musicians who have the core skills, because they can feel that.
I had "Beginnings" by Chicago thrown at me. It was 1st time im public, lol. I learned quick: follow bass player, don't play what we all know you can't do. And play simpler. NOT harder.
I don’t play drums,, but I totally get what you are saying.the term being locked in, I always called it either chemistry,,,or the magic! Thanks for sharing another perspective. And being able to keep time is crucial. Thank you!
Agree. But I've ALWAYS known and picked out the best guys in about 1 measure. I'm no Buddy Rich, either. But I got feel. I was once at a place leaving and the drummer comes in with THIRTEEN horns (no joke) and just tapping for tone, he was so good, I sat back down. It was friggin Gerald Dowd i think his name is. Day of the Dowd. Have a Google. Damn good player.
Totally agree dude. I played bass in a band because the band was made up of 3 drummers haha. I basically got the bass straw. The weird thing is it really worked .. but I played bass like a drummer. All about the grove but on the bass. When I went back to drums I found myself following bass differently ..
This is priceless information delivered by a pro, listen and watch! This is all the stuff I learned the hard way from 1966, in third grade, to today! I'll never forget someone sitting in with my band in college and the band was immediately better sounding. It got my attention fast and I've been learning, taking lessons, practicing, jamming, and gigging for over 40 years. Listen to Adam, he knows what he is talking about!
really great drummers can wail at low volume. so many who think they're good will still drown out an acoustic guitar, flute or piano. that's a sign they need to learn more.
True. Big lesson for me when I started to play jazz after being in rock bands for years. For about the first 10 years all anyone ever said about my playing was that I was "too loud"...
Playing fast and deliberate...softly and quietly. It's one of the things that my high school band director focused on. Couldn't be happier that it was that important to him, it made me so much better.
Just wanted to say that the guy in the video around 8 Minutes is Aric Improta, he plays with an experimental rock band called Night Verses and a "stadium rock" band called Fever 333. He CAN lock up with the band very good besides having great chops.
Eric Hand Night Verses arent big because they’re a niche band, Fever 333 don’t exist for very long and already perform on huge stages. Just give them a little time! :) Also music should not be a competition about who sells most records
You have a very reasonable and humble way of expressing your many years of expertise and it is great to learn from your insights. Playing together is important - no one wants 7 minutes of fills or monster guitar licks or keyboard runs. It’s hard to play with a drummer who needs to tom crash and ride all the time. Hat, snare, kick and lock to the beat the best drummers can make 3 pieces sound like an orchestra of percussion. Loved the example with the guy knocking on trash. His feel and the sticks just sing.
I will be watching this video every week. Even if what he says hits a nerve, he’s telling us what we need to hear, not what we want to hear. I will admit it was disheartening to hear at first but I’m glad to know where I need work. Watching this has forced me to spend about 20 minutes a day working on playing cleanly around the metronome. From this process, I now am able to tell whether or not my hits are spaced properly while I am playing even before I listen to the recording. Also, I have read the comments thoroughly and I think everyone here has given me great insight into how I can improve not as a pure drummer, but as a musician.
after rifling through some of the comments about bass players wanting to have something to work with yadda yadda, i came to one conclusion what 80/20's overall point with this video was. He is pointing out things that in my opinion are really important to know as a drummer. This video gave me a lot to think about when playing. Good video and thanks to you sir. oh and another thing. You mentioned that after years of practise one starts hearing things that wasn't there before. This is so true. Since i started playing drums i can't listen to a song just to enjoy it in whole. I listen to a new song like 10 times before i can decide if its good or not. studio or live. Basically what i mean by this is that I consider it a curse and a benefit to hear notes between notes and having to have to listen to every instrument one by one. Keep on hitting them drumz ppl. peace. subscribed.
They can tune the instrument. Come to rehearsals on time. They control dynamics. You don't need too use much ear protection. Can play metal (not just try, they PLAY IT) , pop, jazz, industrial, classical, punk, arabic, electronic, dance, etc. Anything. No beers, no smoke. This is for musicians in general also.
@@robertdore9592 NOPE. Almost every musician should SMOKE (pot) BEFORE they record or perform, as pot TURNS THE BRAIN OFF, and TURNS THE HEART UP. (I'm a brainiac, but even I know music MUST be from the HEART, not the brain.) ALSO, it's Human Nature to GET NERVOUS when a recording light goes on or they step in front of an audience. BOTH pot and booze are GREAT solutions -- as long as you use them MODERATELY like anything else. Even the BEST musicians still struggle when the Recording Light goes on b/c it's Human Nature: "Oh crap I better not mess up!" = YOU MESS UP MORE. Take that Chattering Mind out of the equation, with a little grass or booze. (Not beer. That makes you fat and more trips to piss.)
Good video. You identified legitimate areas of differentiation between drummers, not even necessarily skill related, but style related, self confidence related, etc. “Is the candidate a good fit for this organization?” I dig it. And you’re obviously a highly skilled drummer!
This is SO TRUE. Jeff Martin from Badlands, recently played with us in our AC/DC Tribute band. We had 1 rehearsal...He learned 25 songs, just listening to them and 1 rehearsal. When I asked him how he did it...he said he just listened, and learned Phil Rudd's habits and applied those habits in various situations. About 10 years ago, Jeff, Paul Gilbert and I went to the Baked Potato to watch Marco Minnemann play with some jass/fusion dudes. After, I asked Marco how long did they rehearse? His answer? We didn't.
Don't worry dude, you're not alone. I'm on the verge of quitting drums because it's just too much sometimes and I've been playing for 16 years... but each new day is a new chance, so I keep going.
I think I had one of the strangest experiences, playing on someone else's kit. My first year in college, in our Jazz ensemble, the lead drummer was a lefty. I had always set up my kit with a typical right hand configuration. At first, I tried to quickly move parts of his kit when it was my turn. It always took too long. So, I went back to my own kit, and turned it all backwards into a lefty setup and forced myself to adapt. And I did, rather quickly. Most "pro" drummers can lead with either hand, as both are equally developed. If you watch those still learning, you can see that they favor one hand or the other, playing somewhat lop-sided, favoring their dominant hand. Having balanced limb control lends itself to quite a few points you made. Also, learning to play other instruments, such as bass, guitar, keyboards, even vocals, gives perspective to what the relationship is like between these instruments and the drummer. Learning these instruments as well, definitely helped me to appreciate my role as a drummer within a group better. I've also worked as a recording tech, and that lends itself to another perspective. You gain the ability to critique your playing after the fact. How you sound while playing, doesn't usually translate 100% to what others hear. Being able to listen objectively, as an audience member (in a way), you get a better picture of the mix, and can fine tune what works and what doesn't fit. The ability to remove yourself from that 1st person view, will really spotlight your weaknesses, and lead to self-improvement. All that, plus 30+ years playing (wow, yeah I'm old...) tends to help! -J
After taking lessons for awhile, at a local music store, I was around 13 or 14 when I turned my set to left hand mode to learn to play it that way, thinking that would strengthen my left and improve me overall. I told my instructor I had done this and he was like "why did you do that, you don't need to do that..." and so I switched it back. He was a good teacher but I wish I'd listened to my instincts instead of him that time.
Learning how to play hits was the biggest system shock to me in music school. I resisted for a while, struggled through school, and now spend a lot of my time practicing setups for hits. You are right on man, so very right on.
8:10 - Thats Aric Improta who now tours the world with Fever 333 and Night Verses and in fact does play those wild beats and the bands are amazing haha
I’m an operatically trained heavy metal singer and guitarist but my favourite instrument is bass, despite drums being the one instrument that blows my mind more than anything when being played by a truly professional drummer who knows how to finesse a kit and really drive the bus.
I was 17, in 1977 when my Classic Rock gig fell apart. I answered a newspaper ad for a Funk Disco band that had gigs. At that time you couldn’t find a club gig without playing at least some disco. Thinking that it was “beneath me” to To play live Disco, but I took the gig anyway. The next six months to a year was the most musically intimidating time I have ever experienced. Ego deflation central. My Rock/Blues chops were decent to say the least, and up until then I was sure I was playing at a Pro level. The Bandleader made me (strongly suggested-God bless him) that I take lessons from the guitar player who was well-versed in funk, jazz, rock, blues, pop and Fusion. Everyone in the band was older than I was, and way more flexible in every style. I learned a lot about how Incompetent I was as a bass player/musician , and began to practice a lot and even study some theory. I’m actually pretty happy with the rest of my musical story, but had to fall on my butt to find out that I wasn’t as good as I thought I was. Take in every piece of musical advise you can get. Be a lifetime learner of your instrument, and if someone tries to “School you”, don’t get offended..Get Better!!!
please check out more of Aric Improta. He has insanely improved his drumming since his drum off performance and quickly became my favorite performer and musician 🙌🏻
I have little doubt. I always hesitate to show "early" clips of people, because a lot of mine aren't flattering. Heck, maybe I should show more "early" clips of myself. Know who else sounds decent these days (and, by all rights, is a nice dude)? Dylan Elise. Guess I justify it to myself as "punching up" because these two are literally the 1 & 2 search results for "world's greatest drummer" ahead of Tony Williams, Vinnie, Dennis, Steve, Buddy, and all the modern guys like Tony Royster, Eric Moore, Spanky, Dana Hawkins, Ron Bruner, etc. But, yea - I struggle with that.
@@Pure_KodiakWILD_PowerWell he was beatin the shit out of the drums and goin crazy, i guess i wasnt supposed to have a controled and comfortable sound. Just the ultimate show.
I think your persona or attitude is really refreshing. You’re humble and truly seem to want to get the best out of yourself and everyone else. It’s really cool. Anyone that comes at you with negativity or combativeness probably ought to take some time to re-evaluate themselves first.
Thank you so much for this post a lot of it brought back memories some good and some bad but it's definitely a dues-paying tradition to play on a different drum set every night and it does separate the men from the boys. And I'm still smiling from hearing you say the difference between a guy that could sit there by himself and show off and a guy that can lock in with the band and worry about the song
@@thomasdaniels6824 He isn't cliff. I'm not saying he's bad but... He isn't cliff. Also, I like Rob Trujillo more just because I like Suicidal Tendencies.
As a passable guitarist and pretty good songwriter with years of recording and touring experience behind me (and therefore someone wise enough to know to surround himself with musicians more talented than himself!), the things I listen for the most are: 1). Ability to find the "1", hit the pocket and lock in with the bass player; 2) Ability to speed-up/slow-down with me and the band (more than just to lock toa click for recording'), and 3) the ability to play for the SONG and not just their parts or the most interesting stuff. I want them to think in musical phrases, not just 'groove' or 'exact time'.
Your #4 hits on something the General Public doesn't usually know: so much of the music they hear especially film soundtracks is being performed by studio musicians sightreading the scores with just a couple run-throughs. The initial "cold" run-through is often good enough to record. (Sometimes my first take was what ended up on the project.) In other words the musicians don't "learn" the music, they sightread.
9:00 Dude. MAD respect. Restraint. I'm 31, played semi-professionally, did short tour stints with a band, etc. I know exactly what I am and what I'm not as a player. You or anyone else could say whatever you wanted about me, and I wouldn't give a fuck. Couldn't hurt my feelings if you tried. But if I were criticized by a professional as a youngster? Ooof...it would have crushed me. Good job.
Just started drumming 3 months ago. Been training jj for 14 years. I feel like I’m barely a 1st degree white belt in drumming. Great video to put things into perspective. Keep up the great content.
true and this will definitely help you get the average gig, but at the same time a drummer could meet all of these criteria and still not impress me because he or she simply does everything by the book sounding just like another dave weckl (or any other superdrummer) clone lacking creativity and a distinctive own style. perfection ain't everything, i'd rather enjoy listening to ronald shannon jackson play on that mandance album and let myself get inspired for days after to be honest.
I've known and recorded with one truly PRO drummer in my life, and he recorded 15 songs for me, fucked up briefly on two, he matched all the riffs and changes I threw at him, AND he created an entire song on the drums, and didn't care if I screwed up, he marched on to finish each song to the parts that had been charted. He never fucked up a start or an ending. He WAS and still is a PRO. I know two other drum artists who are very talented, and one of them will lead an entire song just on his own. Problem is, he won't work as hard on your songs as his jams, and he can't really repeat himself. He is NOT a PRO.
Jesus, I remember that bucket drummer on the left from when I lived there in the 90s and he was a teenager. I guess that answers the question some of you may have about whether busking will really help your career in any way.
If I could have called this anything, it probably would have been "subtle things *anyone* can tell, after 20 years of playing and 6 years of music school, about the quality of someone's drumming". But I had to make it shorter. But, to be clear, I'm not claiming to be on a higher echelon, or sitting in judgment. On the contrary, I'm still not great at a lot of these skills.
My only point is - people with a lot of performance experience under high-stakes can hear more subtle things than the average untrained youtube watcher who's like "THIIIS IIIIS AAAAAWESOME" under every drum solo. But, as I said, many of them would also take issue with aspects of *my* playing.
So it's not me judging you. It's them judging all of us ;)
100%
Hey man, don't worry about some of these trolls. you are the most down to earth "here's what it really takes" drum/music adviser I've seen on here. And yea, that's what you are. You fill a very specific niche of instruction, and I don't even think you realized how good you were at it until you started doing it, and developing content. Don't take this wrong, but I think you tend to discourage some people, because the skills you illustrate are not achievable by everyone. Certainly not me. But that's why pro's are pro's. And that's why your channel is the real shit. If people have a dream, and by listening to you they realize it ain't gonna happen, they should be thankful. It's ok, right? It's not the end of the damn world. Anyway, you keep doing what you're doing.
Thanks for this video been playing for 4 years and I’m starting music college next month
Nate man... You have a way of putting things that I respect more than I can explain, and I love your honesty and humility to be able to admit that when you are talking about "Pro" or "Legit" musicians, you are not necessarily saying that this is you.
Thank you for the work that you do, these concept videos are always bang on, and although I think some of these (like the figures stuff) may be to the higher echelons of jazz drumming and maybe not show that there are some rock drummers out there who play solid time and are still legit as hell, I understand, and love everything that you are opening people up to....
Keep on man... love this stuff :D
@@ray32245mv I would disagree that you the skills are not achievable by you or everyone, as long as you are willing to put in the time you can get there man, just find the thing that drives you to learn it and go like a freight train ;) you've got this.
But also I agree Nate has some lovely stuff in there :D
99% of drummers watching this are just checking to see if they are a legit drummer or not
Irony as usual...
I'm naturally good ... but so unlegit haha
Lol.... your right.
That's why I clicked on this video 💯
Nothing wrong with learning how to improve upon techniques! I don't pick up and learn songs quickly though. I don't see how it's possible. I'm sure I'm overthinking, but I also don't know if having autism affects the "natural" feel of picking it up though.
I'm a bass player. It takes 2 bars to figure out if a drummer is alright.
I agree...I'm a bassist too and still waiting to play with a drummer I like, meaning one that doesn't overplay
A good number of drummers that I've had the joy of playing with, seemed to have stopped at at least 2 bars on the way to rehearsal.
Why are bassists such xxxes?
You're a bassist. No one cares what you think.
tiny b great comment ...you win and the prize is every drumming video on RUclips to praise or criticise at your leisure....thanks for the best laugh I’ve had all week
1. When you're able to play at a Guitar Center without being told to "keep it down."
depends on the value of the guitar you play and look like you got the doe.sorry its not how good you are there now if you go to a jam and they want you to 2 songs in stead of 4 your not doing well if you are asked to do another set with a full house you rock.
Unless the guy's hard up to earn his commission and make a sale
Hahahaha guess I check out then. I used to play the electric kits til they started asking me to go on the real kits lol
I have NEVER been told to keep it down at Guitar Center- that happened at Sam Ash!
Lmfao. Too damn funny man. I literally want to drop kick fools off the stools smh
We need to remind (or inform) ourselves that this guy is talking about pro level session drumming as a career - who makes the cut and who doesn't, and why. He's not talking about the casual musicianship in most underground bands out there. I've played in a few bands. Indie/Alternative/Hardcore crap. We played live. Recorded in studio. We weren't very good, but we had fun and got some compliments. Just one of a million amateur bands out there having fun. Just know he is talking about pro talent, not the rest of us, and as for the rest of us, don't worry about being awesome. Be as good as you have the inclination to be, have fun, admire your betters and help those beneath you.
Music is a ladder. Some of us are on the top, most are somewhere else on it. But I hope we are all enjoying it, and sharing our talents.
Exactly. Think of the White Stripes. Can you imagine anyone else fitting into that style but Meg?
Great comment, sums it up for me. After all IF it’s not fun you’re NOT gonna hang..
Fantastic comment!
Word
In the early '90s, I played in a band with a drummer who was too good to be with us (But, we were in Alaska, so gigs were few and far between). He embodied all of these. I really remember when he sat in with us for the first time. We gave him a beat and rolled into an original. Almost immediately, he had found the perfect rhythm and caught the changes beautifully. The best moment was the finale where we had a one beat pause, then a replay of the intro line just before the end of the song. He stopped at the pause, thinking it was the end. When he heard it wasn't he waited for the guitarist to play a few bars until the PERFECT moment to come back in with the main rhythm mixed with some simple fills, H ended at the true ending as though he'd known it all along. It was so perfect, it became a part of the song. Haven't seen him in years, I hope he's still playing out...
One of those fortunate mistakes, lol. You realize a lot of music is written this way. Kind of "happy accidents".
People with that superb amount of skill are adept at taking the moment with their level of adroit abilities and leave one feeling as though it was a serendipitous moment.
@Copter Cop Can't tell if sarcasm or seriously trying to lie about being this wild drummer 🤔
I did the exact same thing when I sat behind the drums with some dudes from another band and I'm a guitarist. It's intuition. Song patterns are repetitive. There's only so many options. So the drummer listened and knew when to get back in bc he's seen/heard it before from other musicians.
Guitarist here: when my band finally found a drummer that not only could find 1, but stayed in the pocket, he complimented me on my ability to play on time (an apparent rarity for him among guitarists). I had to tell him that I was merely competent, he was the one who locked in so well. I ain't too proud to admit it: the drummer has the sole power to make or break a band.
It's true. The drummer is one of the most important parts of a band when they are playing.
I went to an audition once (being a drummer) and the bass and guitar were never in the same time.
They would play and I would have to adjust to one of them with the other way out.
I have noticed a guitarist tends to chase the Bass no matter how many times he goes of time so I agree with your drummer.
at the same time, i've played with drummers with uneven meters. We all sped up and slowed down to make everything fit. It was weird but drummers are hard to find in small towns.
@@littlegoobie This is too true.
@Nick Pease Agreed. A solid drummer with a solid or even average bassist can make an okay song sound amazing.
One thing that is, IMO, super helpful for a drummer is to have an understanding of chords and melody/harmony. Being able to hear transitions coming, or being able to know where you are by hearing the chords, is indispensable. Just because you aren't playing pitches notes doesn't mean you don't benefit a lot from understanding pitches and chords and chord progressions.
Here's the non-obvious part: if you're not used to performing with people, in front of other people, you won't be very good at it.
Ego and self consciousness will kill you in public. I always played best when I didn't care about anything or anyone; I was just having fun. But I never did well in the studio, because the pressure of "this has got to be right" was so distracting.
Yup. Quit playing with yourself, LOL
It always took me about 1 minute and then the crowd disappears
People who haven't spent thousands of hours practicing alone in a room barely big enough to fit your kit in have no idea what you're talking about lololol.
Do not get discouraged. You have to suck at something before you can get good at it. We all gotta start somewhere.
Over playing is a turn off as far as drummers go. The groove is the thing.
Steve Burt bingo
Dynamics, too. I HATE the aim for the floor every second thing
@@vodalavoid no one is saying to be a human metronome. But if a drummer concentrates on the groove the cool fills and colorings happen at the right place and at the right time. Otherwise, people play just to play when all musicians should serve the music and not themselves.
Tim Koupe yeah but it’s about the music, not about archaic this and that and your opinion on this and that. Every song and genre is different and unless it’s a drum heavy genre (and even those have fills within context) you’re complaints are invalid about holding a groove or not. YOU might want to hear fills everywhere but nobody else does. Especially if it’s on top of everyone one else’s stuff.
@@MarioSilva-jg5nh yeah this dude doesn't get music. I play multiple instruments and listen to almost every genre. And that comment is not hitting the point at all. Like no shit over playing is called overplaying for a reason and yes a groove is needed? Hello.. but what about the main point, playing an instrument in this case the drums, with some damn musical competence and human feeling!
As a bass player: 1. Give me something to work with. 2. Don't make me come looking for you.
Exactly.
Drums follows bass, not bass follows drums.
@@t.muntaneer Drum and Bass both rely on each other
@@t.muntaneer wrong...bass & drums follow each other ...bass & drums are the foundation...
@@timsears4730 yawn. You will be very embarrassed once you get more experience.
in 30+ years of playing professionally, i've yet to be hired because i can play a 7/8 groove, can play a kickass drum solo, or can play a 32nd note fill. i'm hired because i listen, i watch, i know where 1 is, i play with a strong backbeat, i can play multiple styles, and i know how to bring a band in or take it out...
@Stephen j ya, i don't think so. drummers among musicians specially fall into the trap of thinking that if you can't play a one-handed roll or play a 32nd note filled solo one is not "good."
i happen to disagree.
If you're that accomplished, then why haven't you been hired again?
Oh right, you never told us.
@@aiden_macleod Well done Aiden. You grabbed the wrong end of the stick and ran off with it. He did NOT say he has NOT been hired merely that when he WAS hired it was NOT because he can 'play a 7/8 groove, can play a kickass drum solo, or can play a 32nd note fill. I'm hired because I listen' Next time look before you leap!
@@vladdrakul7851 lol, yea... englash!
@@sandc411 I agree with you, What keeps me working in my golden years is understanding that I'm not there to say 'dig me'. I'm there because my job is to make everyone else sound good.
Liked for not experience-shaming the kids.
Though if he'd had permission to share a few people's early, inexperienced performances that would have edu value.
Or maybe his early stuff
I agree. Classy move.
JA Todd same
Not shaming others in order to back up your own points... I gotta give you credit for that...
I've never heard anyone call it "lock up" - only ever "lock in" with the band!
I was thinking the same thing. I wonder if it's a regional expression?
@@brentjohnson7044 I live in Denver, worked on the East Coast, West and Midwest. I heard the expression "lock in" almost everywhere, but never "lock up".
I've also heard "locked in" as well.
Yep, I’m from Staten Island and he was filming on 26th st in Brooklyn in this video. Growing up playing in NYC, we’ve always said “locking in”. Same with my dads generation of players. But this guy may not be a native NY’er.
"Lock up" is an expression typically used for something that seizes/stops working. It's weird to see it used this way.
The no.1 thing I appreciate in a drummer is a keen sense of dynamics.
Spring tension gets me. I always carry my pedal with me. lol
I know! sometimes when I play with a different kick pedal than my one I struggle to get double strokes out of the kick when the tension is too tight or too loose. If the tension is really loose though I sometimes struggle to get a decent amount of power out of the kick. That's why I always carry a drum key on me in the worst-case scenario for any part of the drum kit. For the most part though I can adapt to 95 percent of kick pedals I play.
Noah Bird see also: throne height
just me? 😢
@@nameloss I've played enough kits with crappy thrones, so as long as I have my pedal i can hit doubles fine - triples sometimes might be wonky at first.
Spring tension is huge, but so is the snare (for me). The way it sounds and is tuned has a huge impact on the way I play. I used to look down on drummers who had to use their own snare when they played somewhere else - but now I totally get it.
@@nigelproctor That's too fast for my ears to listen to, they only go up to 200.
All 5 points in one: just play the song, not the instrument...
you're welcome
Sums it up for me!
You've just locked everything up for the session guy
Love that one, because it also implies: do not overplay
bam
I had guessed play the song or rather *always play everything as A song...* because otherwise people can tell your intentions.
I have a complimentary one to number one.
A pro drummer will always always always find a way to signal to the band about section changes, recently I had to do a recording session to a really “obtuse” and un even song in the way that choruses and verses came in and out, I found the first pass hard to navigate (the producer was useless) until I remembered the drummer was a good friend of mine who’s an incredible session drummer. The moment I started “Listening” like a hawk for his signaling was the moment I started enjoying the weirdness of the session.
Yes! Non-verbals during tunes. Also, #7, knowing instinctively how far "out" or off the beat they can play without losing the band. (That one's more jazz)
In a big band jazz setting, awesome drummers set up figures so well that I can’t help but play right where they tell me to.
@@8020drummer there's an amazing open mic of musicians jamming together in NH... with a full backline (even brushes or guitar picks!!)...and so I started jumping on the drums (b/c I always wanted to play drums but couldn't afford them or a place to practice)....and since it's ALL improvised, and I'm often playing with musicians I've never met nor
spoken to (!!)... I LOVE TO PUSH them... as only the Drummer can! Soooo much fun! EX: if someone goes into a famous cover song... I will consistently fuck with them by repeatedly changing up the beat (since everyone already knows the song) and ENTIRE feel of the song, and they have to keep up. SO MUCH FUN! [It's a really casual environment so no
attitudes or concern for doing everything "right"!] And as the 30 minute slots near their end, i often will SPEED up more and more and say "let's GET SOME EXERCISE IN!!!"
I love HOW the drummer can completely control all the other musicians, and I play with that a lot! (I love making artists Problem Solve!)
This is something I was always good at. Sadly, life got in the way and I didn't make time to continue playing like I would like to, now, at 40, I'm just getting back into drumming again and am NO WHERE NEAR gig ready, but I'm having fun in my basement!
Everybody's talking about the drumming and I'm just worried about what this dude thinks a back yard is.
Yea he's got some balls. He's not so great. He talks better then he plays
Lance Hollum Yeah, no.
@@lancehollum5566 love not h8 my guy
@@lancehollum5566 by all means bring us some knowledge.
@@lancehollum5566 You need to watch more 80/20 videos. Your opinion will become educated and therefore change.
I can totally attest to the difference between playing on your own and playing live.. I was a bad drummer on my own, but I was f**king terrible playing a gig lol
Try jam nites 1st. Lots of those
@@windsofmarchjourneyperrytr2823 what's that? Jam nights 1st? Is that like when bands come and play for first time
I was legitimately scared that I was going to show up in one of the "not so great" sections....
Haha! You are too cute!
@@Iheartumamiyou won the medall of the bizzarrest comment ever
@@Drumaier Haha ! I'm super cool.
She is cute and can cook. Give her your digits dude.
I did
I have to agree with you, but I think there is more. I actually saw two bands in two different rooms at a bar where the one was trying to play a lot of notes and the band even touted his ability and the other was quiet and unassuming. I told a friend of mine the quiet guy was light years ahead of the other guy. He doubted me. But that quiet guy was well in the pocket as he should be, very tasteful fills, you could immediately see that his skill level was above the other bandmates and he was actually playing pretty far down compared to his skills and a little bored of it. His lack of notes did not take away from the solid technique, feel, and sense of time he had.
You know, as far as guys telling you that you don't have the hands someone else does, Steve Gadd can play circles around 99% of us. Most of the time he doesn't. It's certainly not because he can't. The song doesn't call for it, and playing lots of fast notes isn't even the point. Feel, sound, and originality trump chops any day.
Well said, with drums the Less is More becomes very evident
@@neocollective Not always. It depends on the music. Are you going to ask a drummer in a prog metal band to play only 4/4? Of course not. Unless the challenge is to play 4/4 while the band is playing 7/8 on top of it...
SpikeFlea ; It even goes beyond genres. I happen to like drummers who leave no space at all, but instead play with a huge range of dynamics and ghost notes. It's a matter of choice and taste.
Having said that, a drummer is only good when he's good. I mean, you can play whatever you want, but if you don't nail it, you fucked up, no matter how many or how little notes you play.
@@mariodriessen9740 Very well said. What it comes down to is A) being skilled enough to *correctly* execute whatever is played and B) playing for the song. Within B though, there can be lots of room for interpretation.
I agree with you on the drumming. I also naturally gravitate towards drummers who are more melodic in their expression. But they also tend to play in musical projects that allow for that expression. In other words, a melodic drummer would not make sense in AC/DC, and it would no longer be AC/DC as a result. But that doesn't mean the new incarnation would necessarily be bad if the drummer's parts fit and are properly executed.
I have no idea what he's saying but I appreciate the effort.
😊😊😊
I’m a hack 45 years on drums and still have many problems. I truly enjoy you insight and perspectives.
I love the focus on "1." I saw Victor Wooten do an entire class session about that concept, it's incredible.
#4 totally trough, my band hired a session drummer to record our demo, he went into the practice run, played one time, took notes, played the second time with some of his suggestions, we approved; went to recording room and BAM nailed it on one take
*true. also it's not entirely true
When I think of how well I can play at home, compared to the stage, I am often disappointed after a gig. It is a damn hard thing to play really fluently in front of live audiences. This is one of main things that separate the pros from the rest - pros stay cool under pressure - not just in music but in sports and other endeavors.
Get a 50.00 tripod and record. Jmo. You'll be surprised in lots of ways.
Great video, i would get the "how do you know" question from friends when seeing bands. It's hard to explain than even the way the kit can be set up gives you a clue, tuning and just how they start the tune, but as a drummer who was terrible at playing live as i suffered from extreme public anxiety i know that you can be better in private than in public. I came to accept that i wasn't able to play well in public but realise that the less you do, it can't really get better. I have zero opportunity to play in bands at the moment but i do manage to play while i'm waiting for my son to get out of the shower bucket and he often comes and sings along when he gets out.
Great work and you always inspire me to rethink about all things drumming. Thanks Nate.
Hey DoubleBass (me too) nice response. Playing stages with direct lighting helped me get over stage fright since I couldn't see anyone out there anyway. I enjoy watching folks enjoy, and really love it when they want more drums! Yaaay!
Pretty soon you can't wait to kick the crowd into party gear! It's the drummer's job to get the feet loose and hopping & bopping.
Think about it, you are the proud beat-maker. Own it.
One of the most intelligent and thought-provoking videos on drumming I have ever watched on RUclips.
I worked with a dude in a music store who was an Eddie Van Halen savant. He would plug in a $100 Korean strat into a $59 fender 15w amp and just rip EVH and sound just like him. He sold cheap strats and cheap amps but they always came back because the customers couldn’t get that crap set up to sound like Eddie. That just proved once again that tone is in the fingers.
Rodzilla5332; That's one thing (and very true indeed), but do you recognize this?: I've been a guitar teacher for many years and I've heard and seen so many people who truely believed they could play that Steve Vai solo, or one of Eddie's, or Satriani, you name them. And then you ask 'em to play it and you hear what you expected all along. Yes, they practiced on the parts and they could play the notes, but the timing sucked, the phrasing was terrible, it lacked all the dynamics, the feel, the story, you'd hear noises, because they didn't understand that muting strings is just as important as hitting them.... AND THEY JUST DON'T HEAR ALL THAT!!!
I'm not the best guitar player on earth (believe me), but atleast I KNOW I'm not. Atleast I can tell when I'm off. Atleast I know what I'm good at and what I suck at. And that's so important, 'cause when you know that stuff you can actually do very well by focusing and improving on your strong points, while ditching the weak.
@@mariodriessen9740 if that's what you think about your students then I'm sure you are not a good teacher
Gil Green ; I’m talking about new students mostly. I will always be honest and tell them that there’s more to playing music than repeating a bunch of notes. Some students will pick it up and will work on it, others will never get it. If it was easy, everybody would be a master guitarist. If not succeeding in turning every student into an amazingly good guitar player makes me a bad guitar teacher, then I am a bad guitar teacher. Happy?
"Don't be like I was. Be better than I was." Introspection and modesty, right there...
I remember in the 70's when I was an aspiring jazz player on guitar and trumpet studying with Don Cherry, he would point out the difference between playing time and playing rhythm. That to me forms the basis of "It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that Swing". Check out Ed Blackwell on Complete Communion (Blue Note) or dozens of other recordings.
My brother Dave who is a drummer would point out to me how he followed the polyrhythms his teacher (Elvin Jones) was playing and I never was able to hear the counting in my head while brother Dave could call out Elvin's 1 shifting and reuniting with Chip Jackson's bass playing in a different time signature on the same song.
One time we were with a tabla player who was explaining a 4 against 7 cycle and Dave easily demonstrated it snapping 4 with one had against 7 with the other.
Bottom line for me is I like this video because I learned something about hearing a deeper level of musicality. Well done. Much appreciated.
Steve Herzfeld so cool that you and you're brother were able to study with Don and Elvin. Mind elaborating on the differences playing time and playing rhythm?
@@iqiu753 I'm not a drummer and a point that 80/20 makes very well is that there is a lot going on in playing that listeners may not hear. Don Cherry was not someone who elaborated much verbally so when he pointed something out you had to unpack it for your own use. Some of what he said I'm still getting a lot of new utility out of. Basically my understanding regarding time and rhythm is that strictly only playing time is something a machine can do well and perhaps even more accurately than a human. The expression "beating the drum" sums up the subtle value of not caring for the life breath of the music. Playing rhythm involves finding a pulse that the body and soul of a listener can move with. That feeling that comes out of a bass and drum "rhythm section" that makes the music swing. Time can be described as "an eighth note gets one beat and there are 6 beats in a measure" while rhythm is what makes Coltrane's "Afro Blue" and "My Favorite Things" grab your soul.
The bucket drummer(s) in the intro are superb. I'm glad they were mentioned because I've seen them several times on the platforms and with each time I am blown away by not just their energy, but their groove. There are plenty of bucket drummers out there who have blinding speed but have absolutely no groove. I've always wanted the opportunity to pay my respects to the bucket drummer(s), and I'm glad this video game me that chance.
Finding the “1” is absolutely true. It’s a difficult skill to learn when you don’t have a natural musical ear to listen to the measure changes.
Or forgetting to count. It's like having counting apnea.
After 43 years of playing, music scholarship, being a recording professional and pro live player, I’d say you’re pretty much on the money. Good vid man.
>Be me, stumble across this video, read the comments
>See people banging on the video creator for using Aric Improta as an example of someone not "locking up" with a band.
>Decide to search YT to see if they are right. He rocks hard.
>Have to go about 15 videos down to find him playing with a band instead of solo.
>He plays triple forte the entire song, completely drowning out the guys playing with him. This includes dropping into a fill during his bandmate's solo (oof).
My 2 cent Conclusion: Dude is a badass drummer *and* there is also evidence for what is being claimed here. Everyone is right (and wrong). This is typical of how life on social media goes, right?
Man just check out his band night verses :)
He kills it in both Night Verses and Fever 333. Kind of a dick in person though, that was a turnoff lol
ConArdist oh really ? Showman drumming and virtuoso skills can lead to being a dick in various ways because you spend little time being a Human ahah
There are 2 types of musicians.
Those who play great with a band...,
and those who never will.
@@ConArdist Beethoven, as much of an unparalleled musician as he was, had one fatal flaw...
He was an asshole.
OK, so the first two times I saw "copyright countdown: 5, 4, 3, 2, 1," I literally thought that was the name of some complicated play-along track with rapidly descending time signature changes 5/4, 4/4, 3/4 etc... and some metric modulation that was causing me not to hear the changes. I was like, "GAH, I can't hear it! I suck at drumming!" I finally realized it was literally about avoiding copyright infringement. LOL. Sometimes I overthink...
Haha! You've hit on a good point there! When learning/practicing an instrument (I assume you're a drummer, as I am), it's hard to mentally escape from it. So you end up missing the wood for the trees, as the saying goes.
Same!
Lol same
The piece is "Entertain me" by Tigran Hamasyan.
Dude I thought the same thing.
As you said, being able to learn a song quickly is really important if you want to get lots of work. When I did commercial studio work, standard procedure was one read-through of the chart with the band, take notes from the producer (if any), then roll tape, and 95% of the time we only did one take. Same with subbing with bands - if I was lucky I'd get one rehearsal where we went through each song for the gig once, I'd take notes if needed, and that was it. There were plenty of drummers with better chops and flashier skills, but I got the gigs because of the points you made. Good video!
I wholeheartedly agree with everything you discussed. No “buts”. Very refreshing to hear it laid out that way. Thank you sir.
After 40 years of playing... and now getting ready for jazzy Christmas tunes... this statement helped me more than anything I've ever been taught behind the kit: 10:54 When non-trained people see a drummer playing, they are not doing something musical pros can't help but do, counting in their heads. After 25 years of playing and six years of music school, pros literally can't help but counting along. It's a survival instinct hone from thousands of hours "hanging on for dear life"...
That was a pretty sketchy "back yard" Eric Harland was playing in.
Chernobyl
Snidal ---- I dunno; it looks pretty American to me. Also, it's not glowing.
Daberney looks like the bronx in the 70s.
Fantastic lesson! A lot of wise words.
Im sure i have all 5 of these qualities.. I just dont have a drum set to test my theory.
How to tell a good drummer. Is he bat shit crazy? If yes then he's a great drummer.
Hahaha, so true, best drummer I ever played with was a really unorthodox metal dude, we had a short lived band. He was so driving and tight that my playing began to really tighten up even when I jammed with other people, they were saying: "man, you're playing's getting real sharp lately, what's happened?". The problem was the guy was batshit insane...nice guy but he was basically the local Keith Moon...one night coming back from a party I was driving him home and he jumped on my while I was driving and began violently molesting my nipples for no real reason, I nearly crashed into a power pole...he thought it was hilarious!
Crazy drummer you say? ruclips.net/video/RvatDKpc0SU/видео.html
This is very interesting. As a bass player I strive for solid time, clear sound, appropriate loudness/softness, respecting/enhancing the song, and a certain amount of creativity. I would be happy when the drummer possesses these skills as well. It's up to the two of us to lock in and make for a good experience for everyone from fellow musicians to the audience. Whether playing in the street, church, or jazz club, you want to be asked to come back again. The key in my mind is to strive for the things that make good musicians want to play with you. You have to possess a certain quality for that to happen. It's especially helpful to discuss the components of that quality. Well, back to practicing, and thanks for this video.
You said your friend couldn't hear it, but I think that, subconsciously, people with untrained ears still 'feel' it... it's what ultimately makes these skills your discussing 'objective'. If finding the one didn't matter, even to the layman, any drummer would do, but people naturally gravitate to musicians who have the core skills, because they can feel that.
I tink, that heavily depends, on the variety and quantity of musik you have heard. But I agree with the basic idea.
You're like a drumming Dr. Cox from Scrubs.
I was going for Hugh Laurie from House but I'll take it
You always remind me, that you don’t need a shiny environment to put out excellent incredible content! Great lesson man!!!! Love it.
The 'hanging on for dear life through a difficult tune' is the perfect way to say it lol so true
I had "Beginnings" by Chicago thrown at me. It was 1st time im public, lol. I learned quick: follow bass player, don't play what we all know you can't do. And play simpler. NOT harder.
I don’t play drums,, but I totally get what you are saying.the term being locked in,
I always called it either chemistry,,,or the magic! Thanks for sharing another perspective.
And being able to keep time is crucial. Thank you!
Best thing for me as a drummer was learning how to play bass.. you realize if a drummer is good or not very quickly haha
I'm a bassist and I can confirm this
Agree. But I've ALWAYS known and picked out the best guys in about 1 measure. I'm no Buddy Rich, either. But I got feel.
I was once at a place leaving and the drummer comes in with THIRTEEN horns (no joke) and just tapping for tone, he was so good, I sat back down. It was friggin Gerald Dowd i think his name is. Day of the Dowd. Have a Google. Damn good player.
Totally agree dude. I played bass in a band because the band was made up of 3 drummers haha. I basically got the bass straw. The weird thing is it really worked .. but I played bass like a drummer. All about the grove but on the bass. When I went back to drums I found myself following bass differently ..
This is priceless information delivered by a pro, listen and watch! This is all the stuff I learned the hard way from 1966, in third grade, to today! I'll never forget someone sitting in with my band in college and the band was immediately better sounding. It got my attention fast and I've been learning, taking lessons, practicing, jamming, and gigging for over 40 years. Listen to Adam, he knows what he is talking about!
I'm an amateur of 21 years and this video made perfect sense. Best video I've seen for a while. Sick playing examples too! 😎
"I'm going to switch hands. Ohhh that's better."
I think we all know how good this feels.
What all this adds up to for me, as an audience member, is that feeling of being in safe hands.
really great drummers can wail at low volume. so many who think they're good will still drown out an acoustic guitar, flute or piano. that's a sign they need to learn more.
True. Big lesson for me when I started to play jazz after being in rock bands for years. For about the first 10 years all anyone ever said about my playing was that I was "too loud"...
What? No blast beats over a acoustic!
@@Kyp031 umm. Maybe, if you blast softly enough...like a ripple...like a blast that's miles away...😏 Tremor blast...
Playing fast and deliberate...softly and quietly. It's one of the things that my high school band director focused on. Couldn't be happier that it was that important to him, it made me so much better.
Just wanted to say that the guy in the video around 8 Minutes is Aric Improta, he plays with an experimental rock band called Night Verses and a "stadium rock" band called Fever 333. He CAN lock up with the band very good besides having great chops.
thank you. this guy is a monster actually.
Fever 333 is actually amazing
Aloesdius and as good as he is those bands don’t sell records
Eric Hand Night Verses arent big because they’re a niche band, Fever 333 don’t exist for very long and already perform on huge stages. Just give them a little time! :)
Also music should not be a competition about who sells most records
@@erichand7548 fame =/= talent
Lots of great points in this video. A lot of this is what many drummers think but struggle to verbalize.
You have a very reasonable and humble way of expressing your many years of expertise and it is great to learn from your insights. Playing together is important - no one wants 7 minutes of fills or monster guitar licks or keyboard runs. It’s hard to play with a drummer who needs to tom crash and ride all the time. Hat, snare, kick and lock to the beat the best drummers can make 3 pieces sound like an orchestra of percussion.
Loved the example with the guy knocking on trash. His feel and the sticks just sing.
I will be watching this video every week. Even if what he says hits a nerve, he’s telling us what we need to hear, not what we want to hear. I will admit it was disheartening to hear at first but I’m glad to know where I need work. Watching this has forced me to spend about 20 minutes a day working on playing cleanly around the metronome. From this process, I now am able to tell whether or not my hits are spaced properly while I am playing even before I listen to the recording.
Also, I have read the comments thoroughly and I think everyone here has given me great insight into how I can improve not as a pure drummer, but as a musician.
after rifling through some of the comments about bass players wanting to have something to work with yadda yadda, i came to one conclusion what 80/20's overall point with this video was. He is pointing out things that in my opinion are really important to know as a drummer. This video gave me a lot to think about when playing. Good video and thanks to you sir.
oh and another thing. You mentioned that after years of practise one starts hearing things that wasn't there before. This is so true. Since i started playing drums i can't listen to a song just to enjoy it in whole. I listen to a new song like 10 times before i can decide if its good or not. studio or live. Basically what i mean by this is that I consider it a curse and a benefit to hear notes between notes and having to have to listen to every instrument one by one.
Keep on hitting them drumz ppl. peace.
subscribed.
"play cleanly with yourself" ahh yeah..
lmao. Cleanly, of course.
I love your seeming never ending pursuit of "why?"when it comes to the drums : )
Me too. It’s one of the things that separates him from standard RUclips drum channels.
They can tune the instrument.
Come to rehearsals on time.
They control dynamics. You don't need too use much ear protection.
Can play metal (not just try, they PLAY IT) , pop, jazz, industrial, classical, punk, arabic, electronic, dance, etc. Anything.
No beers, no smoke.
This is for musicians in general also.
Really good points....
@@robertdore9592 NOPE. Almost every musician should SMOKE (pot) BEFORE they record or perform, as pot TURNS THE BRAIN OFF, and TURNS THE HEART UP. (I'm a brainiac, but even I know music MUST be from the HEART, not the brain.)
ALSO, it's Human Nature to GET NERVOUS when a recording light goes on or they step in front of an audience. BOTH pot and booze are GREAT solutions -- as long as you use them MODERATELY like anything else.
Even the BEST musicians still struggle when the Recording Light goes on b/c it's Human Nature: "Oh crap I better not mess up!" = YOU MESS UP MORE. Take that Chattering Mind out of the equation, with a little grass or booze. (Not beer. That makes you fat and more trips to piss.)
If I could control my kids better it would likely also impact my drumming positively as well 😃
Well maybe you should lock your kids up for once then!😅😉
I'm a musician & I've experienced "too many eyebals" many times
I've had a shake, but no hairy eyeballs
Good video. You identified legitimate areas of differentiation between drummers, not even necessarily skill related, but style related, self confidence related, etc. “Is the candidate a good fit for this organization?” I dig it.
And you’re obviously a highly skilled drummer!
This is SO TRUE. Jeff Martin from Badlands, recently played with us in our AC/DC Tribute band. We had 1 rehearsal...He learned 25 songs, just listening to them and 1 rehearsal. When I asked him how he did it...he said he just listened, and learned Phil Rudd's habits and applied those habits in various situations. About 10 years ago, Jeff, Paul Gilbert and I went to the Baked Potato to watch Marco Minnemann play with some jass/fusion dudes. After, I asked Marco how long did they rehearse? His answer? We didn't.
Thanks for consistently showing me all the different ways in which I suck.
Don't worry dude, you're not alone. I'm on the verge of quitting drums because it's just too much sometimes and I've been playing for 16 years... but each new day is a new chance, so I keep going.
I should probably stop watching videos like this so often. They're not good for my self-esteem. :)
I’m not a musician but found this really enlightening , thanks.
I think I had one of the strangest experiences, playing on someone else's kit. My first year in college, in our Jazz ensemble, the lead drummer was a lefty. I had always set up my kit with a typical right hand configuration. At first, I tried to quickly move parts of his kit when it was my turn. It always took too long. So, I went back to my own kit, and turned it all backwards into a lefty setup and forced myself to adapt. And I did, rather quickly. Most "pro" drummers can lead with either hand, as both are equally developed. If you watch those still learning, you can see that they favor one hand or the other, playing somewhat lop-sided, favoring their dominant hand. Having balanced limb control lends itself to quite a few points you made.
Also, learning to play other instruments, such as bass, guitar, keyboards, even vocals, gives perspective to what the relationship is like between these instruments and the drummer. Learning these instruments as well, definitely helped me to appreciate my role as a drummer within a group better.
I've also worked as a recording tech, and that lends itself to another perspective. You gain the ability to critique your playing after the fact. How you sound while playing, doesn't usually translate 100% to what others hear. Being able to listen objectively, as an audience member (in a way), you get a better picture of the mix, and can fine tune what works and what doesn't fit. The ability to remove yourself from that 1st person view, will really spotlight your weaknesses, and lead to self-improvement.
All that, plus 30+ years playing (wow, yeah I'm old...) tends to help! -J
After taking lessons for awhile, at a local music store, I was around 13 or 14 when I turned my set to left hand mode to learn to play it that way, thinking that would strengthen my left and improve me overall. I told my instructor I had done this and he was like "why did you do that, you don't need to do that..." and so I switched it back. He was a good teacher but I wish I'd listened to my instincts instead of him that time.
Im not that great but Ive been switching up hands too. It definitely helps with independence.
Learning how to play hits was the biggest system shock to me in music school. I resisted for a while, struggled through school, and now spend a lot of my time practicing setups for hits. You are right on man, so very right on.
Ears-down versus limbs-up is a profound observation. Very insightful.
8:10 - Thats Aric Improta who now tours the world with Fever 333 and Night Verses and in fact does play those wild beats and the bands are amazing haha
How I tell, you can keep time and you show up on time... majority of drummers fail that simple test.
Don't talk about Lars like that! LOL
How do you know if the drummer knocking on your door is an amateur or a pro? The pro knows when to come in.
@@paperdain - Bad-dum!
Extremely necessary information. Keep the good work! :-)
Ultimately, there's no better feeling than the sweet melding of time & rythm with a group of professional muscians in the type of music you love.
I’m an operatically trained heavy metal singer and guitarist but my favourite instrument is bass, despite drums being the one instrument that blows my mind more than anything when being played by a truly professional drummer who knows how to finesse a kit and really drive the bus.
I was 17, in 1977 when my Classic Rock gig fell apart. I answered a newspaper ad for a Funk Disco band that had gigs. At that time you couldn’t find a club gig without playing at least some disco. Thinking that it was “beneath me” to To play live Disco, but I took the gig anyway. The next six months to a year was the most musically intimidating time I have ever experienced. Ego deflation central. My Rock/Blues chops were decent to say the least, and up until then I was sure I was playing at a Pro level.
The Bandleader made me (strongly suggested-God bless him) that I take lessons from the guitar player who was well-versed in funk, jazz, rock, blues, pop and Fusion. Everyone in the band was older than I was, and way more flexible in every style. I learned a lot about how Incompetent I was as a bass player/musician , and began to practice a lot and even study some theory.
I’m actually pretty happy with the rest of my musical story, but had to fall on my butt to find out that I wasn’t as good as I thought I was.
Take in every piece of musical advise you can get. Be a lifetime learner of your instrument, and if someone tries to “School you”, don’t get offended..Get Better!!!
Nothing wrong with getting offended - often it's impossible not to. The main thing is indeed to get better!
please check out more of Aric Improta. He has insanely improved his drumming since his drum off performance and quickly became my favorite performer and musician 🙌🏻
I have little doubt. I always hesitate to show "early" clips of people, because a lot of mine aren't flattering. Heck, maybe I should show more "early" clips of myself. Know who else sounds decent these days (and, by all rights, is a nice dude)? Dylan Elise. Guess I justify it to myself as "punching up" because these two are literally the 1 & 2 search results for "world's greatest drummer" ahead of Tony Williams, Vinnie, Dennis, Steve, Buddy, and all the modern guys like Tony Royster, Eric Moore, Spanky, Dana Hawkins, Ron Bruner, etc. But, yea - I struggle with that.
😄 he was probably a solid player before and during drum off; people get nervous up there.
@@Pure_KodiakWILD_PowerWell he was beatin the shit out of the drums and goin crazy, i guess i wasnt supposed to have a controled and comfortable sound. Just the ultimate show.
I think your persona or attitude is really refreshing. You’re humble and truly seem to want to get the best out of yourself and everyone else. It’s really cool.
Anyone that comes at you with negativity or combativeness probably ought to take some time to re-evaluate themselves first.
Thank you so much for this post a lot of it brought back memories some good and some bad but it's definitely a dues-paying tradition to play on a different drum set every night and it does separate the men from the boys. And I'm still smiling from hearing you say the difference between a guy that could sit there by himself and show off and a guy that can lock in with the band and worry about the song
What i learned from this, Lars is definitely a bad drummer.
Yes, but his sound is essential to Metallica's. So he is irreplaceable.
@@JerridGames I refuse to listen to anything after cliff.
@Beemer Bently Bill ward is pretty good in my opinion. My personal favorite is Bonham though.
@@joshuaschwartfigure9342 What do you have against Jason Newstead?
@@thomasdaniels6824 He isn't cliff. I'm not saying he's bad but... He isn't cliff. Also, I like Rob Trujillo more just because I like Suicidal Tendencies.
9:05 shows real class and I applaud you.
The guitarist wrote the music that Matt was playing with.
As a passable guitarist and pretty good songwriter with years of recording and touring experience behind me (and therefore someone wise enough to know to surround himself with musicians more talented than himself!), the things I listen for the most are:
1). Ability to find the "1", hit the pocket and lock in with the bass player;
2) Ability to speed-up/slow-down with me and the band (more than just to lock toa click for recording'), and
3) the ability to play for the SONG and not just their parts or the most interesting stuff. I want them to think in musical phrases, not just 'groove' or 'exact time'.
Your #4 hits on something the General Public doesn't usually know: so much of the music they hear especially film soundtracks is being performed by studio musicians sightreading the scores with just a couple run-throughs. The initial "cold" run-through is often good enough to record. (Sometimes my first take was what ended up on the project.) In other words the musicians don't "learn" the music, they sightread.
Plus, don't overplay when you play in a band
9:00
Dude. MAD respect. Restraint.
I'm 31, played semi-professionally, did short tour stints with a band, etc.
I know exactly what I am and what I'm not as a player.
You or anyone else could say whatever you wanted about me, and I wouldn't give a fuck. Couldn't hurt my feelings if you tried.
But if I were criticized by a professional as a youngster? Ooof...it would have crushed me. Good job.
Bernard Purdie only had one rule : always remember one.
... and where to pick up the checks at Local 802.
Just started drumming 3 months ago. Been training jj for 14 years. I feel like I’m barely a 1st degree white belt in drumming. Great video to put things into perspective. Keep up the great content.
9:08 This is so much more decent and reflected than most people in general, let alone on the hunt for clicks. Very cool man!
He’s 100% right but listening to him talk is like watching him play ... boring
totally.
Sounds like Steven Hawking’s translator. Little to no emotion in everything he says and does.
being good at something does not equal being famous and/or successful at it.
Yeah the dude looked so stiff and robotic
true and this will definitely help you get the average gig, but at the same time a drummer could meet all of these criteria and still not impress me because he or she simply does everything by the book sounding just like another dave weckl (or any other superdrummer) clone lacking creativity and a distinctive own style.
perfection ain't everything, i'd rather enjoy listening to ronald shannon jackson play on that mandance album and let myself get inspired for days after to be honest.
andrew bintang Well said, drummers like this 15 min neurotic douche are theorized to the point of boring puppetry
Timing and dynamics makes a good drummer.
Great video. I'm a guitarist for 50 years and found this very educational and entertaining. A lot I could relate to. Thanks.
I've known and recorded with one truly PRO drummer in my life, and he recorded 15 songs for me, fucked up briefly on two, he matched all the riffs and changes I threw at him, AND he created an entire song on the drums, and didn't care if I screwed up, he marched on to finish each song to the parts that had been charted. He never fucked up a start or an ending. He WAS and still is a PRO.
I know two other drum artists who are very talented, and one of them will lead an entire song just on his own. Problem is, he won't work as hard on your songs as his jams, and he can't really repeat himself. He is NOT a PRO.
I'm like a thief cause I'm always in that pocket.
According to whom?
hangover71 it’s a joke shut up
Aiden Moroney joe momma is a joke
Yo momma would like that
Lean like a Cholo huh
Jesus, I remember that bucket drummer on the left from when I lived there in the 90s and he was a teenager. I guess that answers the question some of you may have about whether busking will really help your career in any way.
Tinderbox he’s not dead yet so he seems to be doing fine in my book.