@TheDOOMCAST hahahaha sadly miles away. There's a bit of me wishing other creatives followed Moores lead, I want to see industry people reviewing these ragebait moantube channels, "This guys lighting and delivery is terrible, and ive seen this costume and set so many times, even the plot is sadly predictable and regurgitated. I preferred his early work." (Oddly enough, I made a mask for an indie British Alan Moore movie a few years ago)
@ uh…was it the Moon Mask from that one thing I can’t immediately recall the name of?! Edit: nm it was just his hair. The Show is what I was thinking of lol.
@TheDOOMCAST it was The Show, yeah! I realised when I was writing the comment that I've not actually watched it (I was working away when it came out, just as we were clearing lockdowns), so I'll have to sort that out. It was a superhero style mask, blue if I remember correctly.
I'm not sure that the term "fandom" applies to stand-up comedy, but the world of the 'comedy nerd' ' has been touched by a similar hateful plague of dudes who consider the consumption of a entertainment product their turf. For all their anguish about wokeness and cancel culture they did far more (and far more lasting) damage to stand-up than the college-aged (mostly young women) they railed against. They did considerable damage by making comedy and comedians self-aware of their place in society, a good number of them vastly overestimating their value as 'truth telllers' and 'modern day philosophers'.
@@horseytown oh wow YES. I am a (i guess semi professional in that I earn money but it is not my main job) stand up comic as well as doing this and the toxicity of dudes in stand up, not even just comedy nerds but a lot of old guard comics in local scenes as well as a lot of new male comics are horrible in this way. However there’s substantial supportive local movements and I’ve notice that (surprise surprise) when you book funny women on your shows regularly your audience doubles because there IS a paying and hungry audience of women for femme forward comedy. And there are PLENTY of great women doing comedy. Some of by favorite working comics now: Steph Tolev, Chloe Radcliffe, Reena Calm, Kristin Lytie, Amber Autry, Marcella Arguello, Gabby Gutierrez Reed, Sophie Buddle, Taylor Tomlinson (huge name now but I got to work with her in 2017 twice!) Beth Stelling (also huge) Janelle James (also huge but ALSO got to work w her years ago) If you live in a fairly reasonably sized city please support any femme forward live local stand up you can! It helps!
@@TheDOOMCAST I did not know your were a comic yourself and that’s cool you got to work with those people. As a recommendation for content for your channel How about you post a special and some clips of you doing comedy on the channel or even talk about you time on the road as a comic too. As well another female comic I would highly recommend you should check out is Adrienne Iapalucci. She is so damm funny and was on letterman a couple years ago. She’s is a name in the industry that has a cult following but one you listen to one of her specials you will be hooked just like me.
Nostalgia is a disease. These folks cannot return to their childhood because they never leave it. One of the biggest social problems we face today (after material things like hunger, etc obviously).
@@jonathanboud7825 yeah in a way it is. Reminiscing or rewatching old films or reading old books isn’t a bad thing. Certainly can’t be. But we’ve built a whole creative culture on corporations regurgitating nostalgia and it’s definitely stunted the creative progress of our culture and in many ways nostalgia and conservatism are sister thoughtforms in that they both strive to return to a past that is at once unachievable and not nearly as good as it is remembered.
I can see your point but nostalgia isn't a disease, Ebola is a disease. Nostalgia is fine within reason, but *over* indulgence in nostalgia is simply annoying and to suggest that it's anything more than that is just as hysterical a reaction as the toxic fandom we've been talking about.
@@nicholasdickens2801 I agree, it's like grown men warring over status or land or money or ethnicity or culture or how many damned bananas they've got in the bank or any other thing that's unimportant in the long term that they've always warred about. You'd think we would've tried to grow up by now, wouldn't you?
@@TheDOOMCAST First of all, you try to make fans sound entitled in this video by saying they want to control the art. Yeah, I understand an artists owns their art and it's their choice to make and change them, but they are putting this art out into the world, and are trying to make money off of them. If someone spent money on a comic/game, people are gonna be extra unhappy if it didn't work for them, especially if previous stories related to this thing were good. What is this point your making with Spider-Man? Who is saying that Wells is the first and only person to come up with idea of Peter and MJ staying apart, and that this hasn't been happening for a while? What are you even talking about in the video and this comment? What do you mean, they're "sister thoughtforms" and "not as a good as it is remembered?" What is this weird-or thing you're trying to make? If I don't like a story going off in some wild direction, I must not want it to change it at all, and just have it be nostalgia filled? It also means I want to go back to 1950s or something?
Fans can do some good. I'm a Browncoat. It was a fan based letter campaign that convinced the studio to fund Serenity. We wanted more. The important point is that fans receive and the artists provide. When Bob Dylan went electric, many "fans" dropped him, how happy were those who listened to the artist's new form of expression?
@@kakhipudhi absolutely. What’s the difference here? Tone and audience. With the Browncoat campaign, a GREAT example of positive fandom they POLITELY but enthusiastically asked studio EXECS to back a passion project, albeit by an already well known director. But my point, and I think Moores is, yes you can absolutely do good by making a civil appeal to the right people. But harassing actors? Getting into arguments on reddit or x or (gasp) youtube comments? Even making angry youtube videos decrying everything wrong with your fandom from casting to ‘wokeness’ or whatever…all that’s doing at best is appealing to an echo chamber, at worst making the entire fanosphere toxic and frustrating for everyone
I remember red letter media discussing rise of skywalker. It was more a retrospective on Star Wars and the guys were right when they pointed out grown adults dressing up to a con hosted by a company for franchise made for young kids/adults. They get overly excited about the new movie knowing it’s not going to be good, they then hate the trailer, go see the movie anyway, and repeat the cycle. If I were in Disney, why bother being creative when nothing I ever do seems to please fans and is going to make money regardless because of these fanboys? How about they grow up and move on?
Grow up too WHAT??? a Culture that despises them and treats them worse than robots, WHEN they can actually achieve employment. There's nothing here of worth too the modern man accept Circuses and prostitutes.
You seem to share Alan Moore's idea of gatekeeping certain concepts are for certain types of people. People get all grouchy on Alan Moore because he sees super heroes as stuff that's fine for kids and should be moved away from into adulthood. Which is what he thought Watchmen would teach people, that see how awful these concepts would be in the hands of real people with real human prejudices? Personally i always found the concept offensive ever since i was told as a kid certain things were "for adults only". I always thought that was one of the first things needed to be toppled for equality. That any concept can be for anyone that likes it. I'll never understand how people chose to go in the opposite direction again.
@@TheOldMPClub well because Star Wars is kinda made for kids. I mean do you really expect action figures to be bought by adults? No, that is not the demographic. What the criticism is being made that adults are acting like children who fawn and fantasize about fictional stories to the point of nostalgia baiting, and almost like a religious adherence too. It’s not that something like Star Wars is childish, it’s that obsessing over it isn’t good. Much like any fictional story that is meant to entertain. That’s what Moore particularly meant. I think it’s easy to mistake his disdain for comics as nothing more than a Grumpy man but that’s not what exactly Moore says. Firstly, Moore has written mature comic book stories before so it’s odd that he would automatically discount comics. Secondly, What Moore and others alike him are concerned about is the extremist, cult-like adherence to characters and stories that were meant for entertainment. Think of sexism female gamers faced, think of the hardcore fascists/racists who claim comics/movies are “woke” and “feminizing men,” or people just saying extremist stuff like “this ruined my childhood.” It’s this attitude that has gotten people to advocate and vote for popular right wing authoritarians; A wish to go back to “simpler times.” (Even when Simpler times were not at all simple). Plus there is a dark underside to the vigilante heroes of the comic books; the first major motion picture vigilantes were featured in BIRTH OF A NATION. Today, many film critics point out the rather empty politics of the marvel mcu movies that espouse essentially copoganda/American exceptionalism ideals. The new Star Wars movies essentially became apologist stories for fascist killers.
I live near Alan Moore and I met him once. I'm a big fan of his work with the exception of Neonomicon (a terrible read) He was a rude, obnoxious prick. Never meet your heros kids.
I think I can see where he's coming from, and there may be some truth in there, but I don't think fans of comic books or pop culture in general were responsible for the rise of fascism or fascistic attitudes, otherwise it's the Wertham thing all over again. The truth is that there has *always* been a toxic element in any kind of fandom but as in all cases, the Internet has given them a wide platform and amplified them. As for Alan Moore, I've been a big fan of his work since his days writing for 2000ad, but for the record I think that in his attitude to comic books he can sometimes come across as being like the older brother who's outgrown the toys he used to love playing with but instead of passing them on to his younger sibling, he takes great pleasure in making the kid watch him destroy them. It may or may not be telling that apart from Steve Moore and Kevin O'Neil, Alan Moore seems to have fallen out with almost every single person he's ever worked with in comics. If anybodys thinking of Trolling me for this simple personal observation don't bother, I won't engage so don't waste your time or mine.
I stopped reading him about 10 or 15 years ago, so I'm sorry to hear he's like that now, if that's true. I certainly wasn't impressed with the last couple of collected League Of Extraordinary Gentlemens. They were just meh imo. And yeah, his work in 2000AD was stellar.
We've always had those people but before the internet they were confined to certain spaces where they could control the narrative, such as in schools or review culture to which most of the world turned a blind eye to. The internet allowed people to network and pretty much proved every fear everyone always said about indoctrination became even quicker to happen. A lie by one youtuber can now reach millions in seconds in contrast to one teacher to a couple dozen students for example. I'd also cite the war on terror as a major reason, as it justified for many people that sheltering is a good thing. Where the point of life became more about finding safety and affirmation, rather than just learning to accept that you don't always get your way in life. Now for many it's completely normal to do whatever you can to make sure your safe space is the whole world. The opposition to this still exists, we're just disillusioned to ever getting the genie back in the bottle. It's much more practical to reach people as individuals rather than affect a mass movement.
I dont think so. When you look at how fascism starts, it does NOT start with poverty. It starts with middle-ish, well saturated citizens, who express their volent urges OUTWARDS from their group to OTHER groups. The poor man or woman are not fascists. They are too poor for that. We should not look for poverty to identify fascism, but to well maintained streets, clean surroundings, impeccable neighborhoods, good infrastructure, well fed people, who are not very aggressive to each other. THEY are mostly the breeding ground for fascists. Look at fascists. They ALL come from good families. Hitler. Himmler. Göring. Gobbels. Or the bolshewiki, who were also fascists, but from the left side: Lenin. Stalin. Trotzki. Fidel Castro. Pol Pot. Mao Tzedong. They were NEVER poor.
@@jc-16. Are they? I am telling you, even the ones who vote for them are seldom poor. They are also from the middle echelon of society. So it was in Germany. The starving people did not vote Hitler into power.
I feel responsible for my public outcry when JJ Binks was introduced into Star Wars. I am a nobody, so it's not like I had any influence, but I felt bad after realizing that there was a plan for that character arc, and that I along with other fans may have ruined that arc b/c we thought our opinions mattered more than the creators. One of my big regrets in relation to my favorite fantasy stories. I am sorry George Lucas.
@@fedgesmedjji7494 incredibly sad for what Ahmed Best went through. I also was one of those people so I share your feelings of guilt. But fortunately we can grow and mature and do good. I am glad Ahmed got to play a Jedi in Mando and it’d be pretty cool if he showed up in some other stuff as well.
I think you and Moore make a lot of excellent points in the video that I 1001% agree with. But I must add a small caveat to this. I fell like comic book creators to put it bluntly are being assholes to fans for no reason at all that is making the situation worse. For example I’m 27 so I’m very young compared to the people you are talking about. And I have experience some of the most cruel and sadistic things I have ever had someone said to me from both creators and fans because I slightly disagree with them slightly on something. Saying if I don’t love this business I’m a,b,c and so on. I think the problem is that comic book creators has become so cruel to people that it’s hurting the industry same with fans as well. I been noticing this trend when I was an aspiring comic book writer in 2016 and knew some big names in the industry even one point mentored by one of them. I tried to warn them about this and all I got was rage and acusing me of being comicsgate. Which for the record I hate comicsgate with a passion. But the warning signs were there yet they insulted my disability and then got rid of me and threw me under the bus. And the whole thing of cancel culture and creators being blacklisted did not help ether it made it worse. The tipping point was ed piskor suicide this past year. Now the industry is hurting, the direct market is on the brink of collapse and all of the things I been saying to pros and fans for years has finally come true. While it is a shame that the world might be leaning into fascism I would argue that there was a chance to corse correct. Find common ground with people and build upon that,be civil and friendly to them take some criticism and compromise to find a happy medium and so on. But unfortunately that ship has sailed. I wish I was wrong but sadly i think I’m not. But great video regardless.
Stay strong young one. The losers see you and envy the traits you have. It calls attention to their deficits. I'm not joking or "gassing you up" as the kids say. I can explain it in terms you'll absolutely understand. Why I want to, I don't know. I'm laid up sick with a laptop to keep me company. Whenever someone is upset, it is because the thing that they are upset at is relevant to them. People are never upset if you walk up to them and tell them that "You look like Batman" name anything nonsensical. However, if you notice someone with a slightly larger nose than normal, and you approach to say "You remind me of that Batman film with Devito as Penguin" - BANG! Problem. Try to the same line on someone with a small nose and you're back to speaking nonsense. The same thing works with virtues. The negative are envious of virtue because they are called/required to understand how degenerate and self-indulgent their behavior is. I just became aware of the Nicki Minaj and Megan Stallion beef, and when one listens to the attacks, they are accusing the other of degenerate acts ... let that sink in. These two absolutely degenerate women, are trying to mark themselves as more virtuous as the other. Take a look for yourself, it was amazing. And because Nicki is married to a child touch er, Nicki felt shamed. Yea. Ya should. They still haven't normalized that one yet. They're working on it. Not there yet. So stand tall against the dirtbags. You will be the last fan left. This guy on the video doesn't realize the fire he is playing with and wants to "play it safe" societally. He doesn't know that the tides have shifted. He definitely couldn't understand what you do intuitively .
@@Superpooch97 yes. Absolutely agree. Not everyone is a nice person. There are people who are rude and have good ideas. There are people who are nice and have bad ideas. I’ll point out however the direct market for comics is not on ‘the brink of collapse’ because of Ed Piskors death (which was absolutely a tragedy, I don’t think anyone should ever be in a place of total despair over a situation like that, it’s pretty upsetting to me), or any other factors, it’s just not anywhere near collapse. Sales aren’t even down relative to recent years by any measure, I have a recent video that addresses this with citations. But just the same, your core point here is absolutely correct. Kindness pretty much always wins. Nobody changes their mind because someone was a d*ck to them, right? Nobody would buy a game or comic from a creator they met at a con who was a jerk to them! Heck, I’ve done exactly that! I’ve stopped buying comics from people who were absolutely rude at cons. Honestly that’s entirely fair. Be kind whenever possible, it’s always possible to be kind.
@@MarcoMasseria thank you for the comment and words of encouragement. I have seen from people in the industry and especially from the big two some cruelty and pure smugness, ego and narcissism on display to me and a bunch of different fans. I think as well that’s why people voted for trump. They are sick and tired of being called a bad guy for no reason especially if they agree on them on Almost all social issues and if they slightly disagree with one issue. Boom there canceled and blackmailed and so on. It’s not just a problem in the industry it’s a problem at large. It has become a purity test and I think we can all agree that extremism on both sides can be a horrible things and sadly fandom and the comic book industry has Been plagued with that now. It’s truly make me upset how people and especially fans and creators are acting like children because they disagree with them on something and so on. My breaking point was wen ed piskor died and his the industry has responded especially the editors in chiefs not doing anything and how a lot of creators and fans has responded and even celebrated his death and even encouraged him to kill himself was true discussing and made me walk away as a comic book fan. I wish so badly the creators the enabled this celebrated his death and the publishers that did not do anything about it would be hold accountable for this but as I learned over the years the comic book industry is the only industry with zero accountability. That’s comes from the pros and comic journalist as well. They are all hiding this. There also hiding that certain creators that are in the “right side of history” Done some horrible shit as well that they are covering up as well and I can go on and on. I was going to confront it at a panel at nycc but they will hide under security and say it was harassment. The thing is pros don’t like to get criticize like we saw at the nycc spider man panel. They will get nasty and smug and then double down just to own you. But the Point is I have to love this medium and it’s breaks my heart that this is happening and they have no one to blame but themselves.As Deadpool one said It dose not cost anything to be kind. And I wish the creators would be more kind to people even if they disagree with them ideologically and storyline wise. Lissen to some criticism and make compromises. Same with these fans as well they need to compromise as well and stop being dicks to creators as well just because they don’t like a story. Just say it’s not for me and move on and not make a million video why it’s bad and so on. Point is extremism on both sides have taken over fandom and I sick of it and we need to fix it before it goes off a cliff.Until then Thanks for coming to my ted talk and I’m going to step off my soap box now.
@@TheDOOMCAST hey man! Thanks for the comment and I love your work! To clarify what I said about the direct market collapsing all because of ed. for the record that’s not what I meant. There that was a lot of other things that happened in the industry that has happened to get to this point some of witch is to long to list here and will take me all day to do but I think that was for a lot of people this was straw the broke the camels back. I think when people saw the disgusting behavior form the pros and fans and how they bullied ed into killing himself that they are done with the industry and that they are fed up with the behavior form fans and creators and they are now Starting to walk away. From what I heard online idk if this is true or not so take this with a grain of salt but I won’t be surprised if this is true some creators behind-the-scenes are finishing up there contacts and are waking away to do something else as well because let’s be honest the fact of getting paid peanuts with almost zero royalties as well as no healthcare and the fact that there is this type of drama and politics Going around the industry and people sabotage there careers because they are petty and don’t like what they Believe them is too much for them. It’s ironic to think that superhero’s tought us to be nice and compassionate to other people and treat people with kindness and dignity even if we disagree with them and they are bad. But the people that now write and draw for theses hero’s they we live are hypocrites and are now doing the exact opposite. Idk man. Again I know I sound crazy and I wish I was wrong and I would gladly be wrong but it’s true. I explain in a lot more detail in someone else’s comment that they made to me but yah it’s starting to get bleek. As Deadpool once said it dose not cost anything to be kind.
It's become tiring as someone who is pretty ideologically opposed to Alan Moore how much i have to defend him to discuss any of his work because so much said about him isn't even accurate. This is baffling as where i'm sitting Alan Moore is about as subtle as a hammer.
Given the results today, this will only be weaponised even more now sadly. I can guarantee, every time a clip from an show or film pre-2000 pops up on my Insta feed, it will always have the usual "couldn't make this now due to all the wokeness" comments repeated ad nauseum. You simply cannot enjoy nostalgic content without it being politicised.
You could just grow a spine and tell them to f off. People like that depend on their ability to control the narrative. Deny them it and you'll drive them crazy.
Boys who fell in love with comics 35 years ago didn't have fathers who loved comics or played video games. The adult pop culture fan is a modern invention. The hard truth is that to still be a fan of something you loved as a child is to betray not just your own childhood, but childhood in general, for where are the young fans now? What are they doing while we are playing with their toys? To chase nostalgia is not the attempt to regain one's own childhood, but rather the act of stealing some one else's.
@@BengaliMartyMcfly I'm sure you are not, but exceptions don't invalidate the rule, right? The point is that comics, video games, movies, etc - Pop culture in general - all that used to be made and consumed for and by kids explicitly, at least far more so than it is now. Now much of that is made to be consumed by those same people, but who are now adults. Which is why it is hardly surprising that it has turned toxic, because there is a sense in which it is poison.
@@TheOldMPClub Ok, you can call it a "pattern" if you want, but the point is the same. I'm sorry if this applies to you and you would rather ignore it, but the modern phenomena of the puerile adult, particularly among males, is both a symptom and a cause of the cultural rot that we are all lamenting. Grown men who concern themselves with the affectations of youth are a poison to themselves and to us all.
@@TheOldMPClub Fine, call it a "pattern" but the point remains the same. The modern increase in the number of puerile adults, especially among men, is both a symptom and a cause of the cultural rot we are all lamenting.
All hail The Cryptkeeper! Yeah, I'm letting my freak flag fly by praising an animatronic anti-hero. I'm aware of his E.C. Comics origins. As an 80's child, my introduction to him was the great HBO anthology series. I make no apologies in praising a well written piece of fiction. Even its Cable Television counterpart. Took the time to purchase the complete DVD series. I occasionally pop one into the DVD Player and watch the uncut entertainment. Not really making a point one way or the other. Just wanted to say here in 2024 that some IPs are better left alone. Now, let's make sure fellow TALES FROM THE CRYPT contributor Robert Zemeckis stays alive so a certain trilogy doesn't get bastardized!😂❤
Ultimately the audience is the judge. If the product resonates with a large audience and brings in the expected $$$ (through tickets, mass merchandise etc.) then it is easy to ignore any 'toxic' element (which will always be there and is amplified by social media). Any negativity will be overshadowed by the enthusiasm anyway, so who cares? Of course, if the product isn't resonating as expected, then it simply makes sense to listen to any criticism (as painful as it may be).
No, nerds just love to make it all about the audience and the money. In that metric their money is always equal to everyone elses. Money is money, who cares where it comes from. When someone prioritizes fame or passion over money then the hatedom will always be irrelevant.
Or if you say you don't like something and say so somehow you are the problem,back in the day that was seen by creatives as feedback and was used as a tool to create a better product. When i buy a product i own it,it is mine and if that product is subpar i have a right to complain.
The good old days did not exist. That's precisely the problem with conservatism -- defending a status quo without recognition of its own negatives. Some people quit consuming superhero fiction when they get older and start seeing it as unbelievable. Some people just criticize the new releases as though the older works they idealize were more believable objectively and not just because they were younger at the time. Yet the fact is that some older people were critical back then of the same older fiction when it was new for the same reason that it did not live up to even older stuff. If you actually do try to create superhero fiction yourself, one of the things you find out is how difficult it actually is to produce anything that cannot be criticized.
A few years ago a started a channel teying to turn people onto great movies. I was so fed up with the disingenuous nay sayers grifting on hate and bile. Then the pandemic hit and i went vack to uni. But the channel is still there and some people tune in from time to time. Its hard to xompete with rage though - the algorithm hates positivity.
My generation and older write or draw fanfiction. For God's sakes, if creators are not making what you like. Get into stuff that came out the same time as the comic books or manga did. You will thank me when we're all up there.
It's as tho some people think Stephen King's Misery (the film, I haven't read the novel) is a manual for how to deal with culture that disappoints them.
Well, art and entertainment rile up the passions. Without riling up the passions, why would we care? Actually, i marvel at the people, who are surprised that people who consume art and entertainment are passionate about it. Why is that a surprise? Isn´t that the goal? Or are we supposed to analytically, coldly, read books and comics and watch movies and whatnot? Wouldn´t that be strange? Inhuman, even? I often think some people want both, the contradiction: On one side they want passionate readers or watchers...and then they want it not. Relative to what is most convenient to them at a given time. But Fans or Humans in general are not that flexible. If they are passionate, they stay passionate. Even if that is inconvenient to some creators at a given time.
Passion is good. But i would prefer the passionate response to not liking the way a story went to being stuff like making your own fanfiction, sending pitches to the owner or creating a rival to compete with it. I'm not a fan of bullying the owner of something into changing it to please me.
@@TheOldMPClub I am also not for bullying endlessly, do not get me wrong. But saying: THIS WAS SHIT? You can do BETTER? You DID better! I think that is more than o.k. What people like Alan Moore and Disney demands is a kinda criticism-free reaction from fans. But that is not how it works. And neither should a fan be forced to become creative himself to get his criticism across. Passion does not equal creativity. Only because you are passionate about some Franchise, does not mean you can do better or even do good. It is like finding out that your favorite electrician messed up the light in your house. Are you forced to learn how to set up light in your house to be able to criticize him? Or can you just call him and tell him he did a fucked up Job and you are angry about it?
Commercial creators need the “fan boy money” - it’s nice for the publishers to pretend they don’t care- but they bow too quickly for the cash. Moore created a lot of crap- he wasn’t doing it for the fans- he is a creative. But when he scores a hit with the fans, he still cashes the checks.
I've been reflecting on this very much so in the past couple of days when I hear about young men voting in numbers for Trump and I feel some of it is due to the rabble we hear in the fandoms. XX sucks now because of "woke" when we used to not give a shit about this tuff. Remember when people protested Too Wong Foo or the Rocky Horror Picture Show? Mindless pandering does exist in entertainment, but, holy crap, what have we become?
Scared little babies who would prefer to live in a safe bubble where all the stuff they don't like is gatekept to never get in. But they'll never be happy unless that is applied to the whole world.
Is Pitch Meeting toxic fandom? Is it Critical Drinkers fault that Disney SW and Prime have terrible writers? I love Alan Moores stories, but people promoting the hammer and seal logo don't have much moral capital in my world
....i dont care what anyone says about this. Ive been playing game's most of my childhood and young adult life and i dont think i have ever and i mean ever played an RPG where you choose your d*** size.....soooo that is a little too far. Just sayin.
Actually it's stuff like this that feeds and fuel's this confusion and hate we have in the world. People don't buy in to this. This man is part of what is driving people apart in the world. All this stuff in the media from movies to comic books to everything they are trying to divide us. Notice how everytime someone like him talks about this stuff there's always someone to hate. In this case he's talking about you and they get you mad and distracted. This may sound crazy but don't listen to this. Don't get sucked in this stupid culture war they made.
He proudly proclaims he's a hermit with no computer who never engages with modern media at every opportunity anyway, so how does he even know what's going on?
This is not so much a consumer vs artists, as it is a consumer vs corporations who happen to hold the IPs. I see your point about the toxification of the fandom, but there are more toxic sides to all this, including, yes, the woke or whatever the current trend word is.
One more thing. The childishness of adults who, instead of living in the real world, escape into fantasy, computer games, comic books, fantasy books and others, so much so that they no longer live in the real world, but in their fantasy. And anything that doesn't fit in with the old lore but is a development or building of something new they treat as a personal attack on them and this is the reason for their radicalisation and escape to the good old days of their safe childhood. Because instead of going for help with their problems they prefer the drug of nostalgia to ease their pain of existence.
Well, but if the real world is for them less appealing, who are YOU to tell them they cannot flee into the fantasy of computergames, comic books, fantasy books and others? Sometimes nobody can help you with your problems. Nobody can erase your pain of existence BUT nostalgia. Sometimes new things are shit. Sometimes it is good and proper to call out bad work. Why should new things automatically be good, and old things be automatically bad? That does not make sense. Experience tells us that it does not make sense. You say the childishness of adults is such a bad thing. But isn´t the child in us the creative engine of all our art, culture, entertainment? Kill the childishness and you kill what is not necessary and at the end you will live with grim faced miners and farmers, who only know back breaking work and little else.
How much of that so-called "real world" is real to begin with? Or it just a make believe indoctrinating story to control people. Alan Moore's belief system holds that all it takes to change the world is to change how people think about it. In his mind people should focus on more challenging fiction to change the world for everyone instead of stories of super people which can lead to people wanting such figures in real life. PS: Just please ignore his blatant hypocrisy where we don't have to admit morality and intellectualism are also supremacist fantasies.
In the end, being an anti-hater has no moral superiority. The verbiage by opposition is not more intellectual. No criticism of an industry that has been filled with mediocre people who eat steak every day. Writing silly stories without any depth, and often seeking controversy because it hides their artistic nullity.
"It's owned by it's creators and artist" and anyone is welcome to patronize. You've got it half right. The art/culture is owned by creator and consumer in balance. Anything done contrary to that will eventually fail. All relationships are balance and when their is an imbalance the situation will not last as it will likely grow and the relationship collapse. In the same fans can only be upset with Star Wars for so long. Youngest audience are not going to pick up the mantel of social change because the entertainment product produced is garbage. You'd be wise as a content creator to think on this balance, two side of the same coin. "Toxic people have made it a war" So if I have a problem with what you're doing that's a problem to me, then I am just objectively the bad guy? See? The balance is gone. Watts. You.
@@MarcoMasseria no then you entirely misunderstand. You don’t own someone elses work at all. You’re free to buy or not buy. In this case not buying doesn’t make you a bad guy at all! I clearly stated that. Go make your own comic or game or book or write a script for a show. Put your own art into the world. How can that make you a ‘bad guy’ I didn’t and won’t simplify it into good guys and bad guys either. But there’s no benefit to complaining for example that a game or movie or comic should be different because you don’t like it. Suck it up. Don’t get offended and triggered because it contained something you think is dumb. Make something you like then. Create something new. Would a bad guy create something new? No. How could making your own art ever make you a bad guy. And nobody owns what you create but you. That’s what I’m saying.
@@MarcoMasseria “youngest people are not going to pick up the mantel (sic) of societal change because the entertainment product produced is garbage” Remember when Windsor McCay’s Nemo got boring so nobody protested in congress for a 40 hour work week and weekends? Dude this is nonsense. If people require specific Star Wars films to push them to ‘societal change’ then we’re already screwed, but nevermind the fact that the original trilogy STILL EXISTS as do the prequels and the novels comprising the EU? Idk man, the more I dig into your comment the more I question the sense of it but thanks for watching and for your thoughts.
@@TheDOOMCAST Thank you for a fantastic and awesome reply. Really. I better understand your point. It's still not entirely genuine. You're saying "Go make your own Star Wars, if you can do better" That right? ... If so, then this is really something, because Leftist have gone full circle. 30 years ago, people with your cultural leaning would instantly go into the market complications and how the powers that be are so entrenched. Now, somehow, it's all about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps! You're an interesting mix of cultural Left and market Libertarian. I like it! I'm not saying they "own" it in a simple sense (legal title), rather, how one attaches their concept of self to something and it becomes part of them/their life and thereby they own it. That was the subject of your video. If we approached in a spirit of collaboration and togetherness (sorry if that is too hippy dippy, I don't try to). Fans and artists would work with the other in mind. Fans being more forgiving. Artists respecting fans and what fans respect. That's not what we have. We have forced representation that in no way reflects reality and the data. We have moralistic preaching from actual degenerates. Thank you again for the engagement and being one of the most thoughtful creators in the space. Love your work and I'll be continuing to tune it.
@ art doesn’t have to represent data. It just represents the artists vision. It’s fantasy, no part of it has to be realistic, from lightsabers to skin color. It’s great that people like Star Wars. I love it. Moores point and mine is that it is a mistaken concept to believe because your self concept becomes somehow attached to something that you own it or have any degree of say in any franchise, and that this is unhealthy. In fact you are proving his point and mine in this very discussion, although I appreciate the civility. Like I say, if people don’t like, for example, current Star Wars, yes create your own sci fi fantasy! Zack Snyder did! Look what happened with Rebel Moon. I mean…he made something and nobody can take that from him. Did people support it? Idk if they like it more than star wars then whatever, more power to them.
@@TheDOOMCAST Yeah but that does only work with CREATIVE people who can make their own thing. Most people are not very creative. So, they get their beloved IP destroyed by incompetent activists. They cannot just make their own IP, because they are frankly speaking, not artists. Why should they? The burden of criticism is not that youre forced to make your own creative work. The burden of criticism is only to be honest and transparent and as precise as one can be. Just because i do not like the current Star Wars, which is BAD, like objectively, that does not mean i am forced to shut my mouth and make my own 100 Million Dollar Show.
We don't. We just need to quietly do what we can day to day and give a crap about each other without sticking our noses in their business when there's no need to.
I see your point and I agree to an extent, but the part where I don't is when you call it 'art'... I think that's exactly the problem. As long as it's art I have no problem with the changes; but when it feels like a product; when it has an obvious message that has an agenda that goes beyond what the actual piece is or communicates for itself... it's difficult to explain... I don't care if Gokou is turned into a kid just like in GT and basically now they just re-do GT in the same way in which they incorporated Brolly into the cannon, by changing stuff here and there and basically copy/pasting ideas from a show that I disliked. I'll continue to watch it and enjoy it, I don't care. It's fun. But the second they try to sell me a new brand of chocolate within the show by having one whole episode of Gokou getting pummeled by a guy whose weak point is a chocolate-powered kame hame ha, then I'll turn off the TV immediately. That's a very dumb example, but it's what at least I feel makes me walk away from a franchise; when they stop feeling honest, like what happened to the MCU, for example. Endgame has many great things, but I HATE that ridiculous 'all the girls' scene... it's just way too stupid to be taken seriously and it pulls me out of the movie way too hard... not only is it out of place in a movie like that, it also undermines its very message in a very stupid way. I think those are the problem with most fans too... but maybe I'm wrong.
I'm going to be honest here because I see the same mistake when dealing with this issue I've seen since gamergate. (Yikes, has it been that long?) I know you were not trying to "both sides" it, but you were kind of "both siding" it. Here's what I mean. You account for the toxic behavior by saying because toxic fans have one reaction, the people reacting to that toxic reaction end up in the same position. This is acting as if both sides are responsible. They are not. This is all because of the racists, the misogynists, the homophobic, the xenophobic - the worse people humanity has to offer making everything. . .well, worse. People reacting to these monsters are not responsible for the behavior of monsters. They are the ones who start this nonsense every single time, and what they do end up getting people hurt and sometimes almost killed. Gamergate begat MAGA, and maga is responsible for the shooting of Gabby Giffords. Many women have been stalked, attacked, SA'ed and in cases unalived by these same toxic people. The people reacting to them do not do any of this stuff. Leftist did not riot at the capital in response to the maga riot. Leftist are not out there sending Amandla Stenberg death and SA threats because she starred in a Star Wars show. You are absolutely right about how fandom becomes toxic, but let's be crystal clear where that comes from. Reacting to monsters, fighting back against monsters is in on way the same as being the monsters.
@@wokeaf1242 i absolutely wasn’t both sidesing it, and even went so far as to clarify that. 6:13 There’s also a prior video linked in there which, may make my position more unmistakably clear if this wasn’t.
To tweak a phrase; "Those who can do, those who cant create a grifting right wing youtube channel moaning about those who did"
@@Jez-Hunt where were you when I was writing this?! You coulda saved me 7 minutes!!!!!
@TheDOOMCAST hahahaha sadly miles away. There's a bit of me wishing other creatives followed Moores lead, I want to see industry people reviewing these ragebait moantube channels, "This guys lighting and delivery is terrible, and ive seen this costume and set so many times, even the plot is sadly predictable and regurgitated. I preferred his early work."
(Oddly enough, I made a mask for an indie British Alan Moore movie a few years ago)
@ uh…was it the Moon Mask from that one thing I can’t immediately recall the name of?!
Edit: nm it was just his hair. The Show is what I was thinking of lol.
@TheDOOMCAST it was The Show, yeah! I realised when I was writing the comment that I've not actually watched it (I was working away when it came out, just as we were clearing lockdowns), so I'll have to sort that out. It was a superhero style mask, blue if I remember correctly.
Lol 😂😂😂❤❤❤❤❤
I'm not sure that the term "fandom" applies to stand-up comedy, but the world of the 'comedy nerd' ' has been touched by a similar hateful plague of dudes who consider the consumption of a entertainment product their turf. For all their anguish about wokeness and cancel culture they did far more (and far more lasting) damage to stand-up than the college-aged (mostly young women) they railed against. They did considerable damage by making comedy and comedians self-aware of their place in society, a good number of them vastly overestimating their value as 'truth telllers' and 'modern day philosophers'.
@@horseytown oh wow YES. I am a (i guess semi professional in that I earn money but it is not my main job) stand up comic as well as doing this and the toxicity of dudes in stand up, not even just comedy nerds but a lot of old guard comics in local scenes as well as a lot of new male comics are horrible in this way. However there’s substantial supportive local movements and I’ve notice that (surprise surprise) when you book funny women on your shows regularly your audience doubles because there IS a paying and hungry audience of women for femme forward comedy. And there are PLENTY of great women doing comedy. Some of by favorite working comics now: Steph Tolev, Chloe Radcliffe, Reena Calm, Kristin Lytie, Amber Autry, Marcella Arguello, Gabby Gutierrez Reed, Sophie Buddle, Taylor Tomlinson (huge name now but I got to work with her in 2017 twice!) Beth Stelling (also huge) Janelle James (also huge but ALSO got to work w her years ago)
If you live in a fairly reasonably sized city please support any femme forward live local stand up you can! It helps!
@@TheDOOMCAST I did not know your were a comic yourself and that’s cool you got to work with those people. As a recommendation for content for your channel How about you post a special and some clips of you doing comedy on the channel or even talk about you time on the road as a comic too. As well another female comic I would highly recommend you should check out is Adrienne Iapalucci. She is so damm funny and was on letterman a couple years ago. She’s is a name in the industry that has a cult following but one you listen to one of her specials you will be hooked just like me.
Nostalgia is a disease. These folks cannot return to their childhood because they never leave it. One of the biggest social problems we face today (after material things like hunger, etc obviously).
@@jonathanboud7825 yeah in a way it is. Reminiscing or rewatching old films or reading old books isn’t a bad thing. Certainly can’t be. But we’ve built a whole creative culture on corporations regurgitating nostalgia and it’s definitely stunted the creative progress of our culture and in many ways nostalgia and conservatism are sister thoughtforms in that they both strive to return to a past that is at once unachievable and not nearly as good as it is remembered.
I can see your point but nostalgia isn't a disease, Ebola is a disease. Nostalgia is fine within reason, but *over* indulgence in nostalgia is simply annoying and to suggest that it's anything more than that is just as hysterical a reaction as the toxic fandom we've been talking about.
Yes these channels that collect toys and talk about them so aggressively and obsessively. Grown men warring over toys. Good grief.
@@nicholasdickens2801 I agree, it's like grown men warring over status or land or money or ethnicity or culture or how many damned bananas they've got in the bank or any other thing that's unimportant in the long term that they've always warred about. You'd think we would've tried to grow up by now, wouldn't you?
@@TheDOOMCAST First of all, you try to make fans sound entitled in this video by saying they want to control the art. Yeah, I understand an artists owns their art and it's their choice to make and change them, but they are putting this art out into the world, and are trying to make money off of them. If someone spent money on a comic/game, people are gonna be extra unhappy if it didn't work for them, especially if previous stories related to this thing were good. What is this point your making with Spider-Man? Who is saying that Wells is the first and only person to come up with idea of Peter and MJ staying apart, and that this hasn't been happening for a while?
What are you even talking about in the video and this comment? What do you mean, they're "sister thoughtforms" and "not as a good as it is remembered?" What is this weird-or thing you're trying to make? If I don't like a story going off in some wild direction, I must not want it to change it at all, and just have it be nostalgia filled? It also means I want to go back to 1950s or something?
Fans can do some good. I'm a Browncoat. It was a fan based letter campaign that convinced the studio to fund Serenity. We wanted more. The important point is that fans receive and the artists provide. When Bob Dylan went electric, many "fans" dropped him, how happy were those who listened to the artist's new form of expression?
@@kakhipudhi absolutely. What’s the difference here? Tone and audience. With the Browncoat campaign, a GREAT example of positive fandom they POLITELY but enthusiastically asked studio EXECS to back a passion project, albeit by an already well known director. But my point, and I think Moores is, yes you can absolutely do good by making a civil appeal to the right people. But harassing actors? Getting into arguments on reddit or x or (gasp) youtube comments? Even making angry youtube videos decrying everything wrong with your fandom from casting to ‘wokeness’ or whatever…all that’s doing at best is appealing to an echo chamber, at worst making the entire fanosphere toxic and frustrating for everyone
I remember red letter media discussing rise of skywalker. It was more a retrospective on Star Wars and the guys were right when they pointed out grown adults dressing up to a con hosted by a company for franchise made for young kids/adults. They get overly excited about the new movie knowing it’s not going to be good, they then hate the trailer, go see the movie anyway, and repeat the cycle. If I were in Disney, why bother being creative when nothing I ever do seems to please fans and is going to make money regardless because of these fanboys?
How about they grow up and move on?
Grow up too WHAT??? a Culture that despises them and treats them worse than robots, WHEN they can actually achieve employment. There's nothing here of worth too the modern man accept Circuses and prostitutes.
You seem to share Alan Moore's idea of gatekeeping certain concepts are for certain types of people. People get all grouchy on Alan Moore because he sees super heroes as stuff that's fine for kids and should be moved away from into adulthood. Which is what he thought Watchmen would teach people, that see how awful these concepts would be in the hands of real people with real human prejudices?
Personally i always found the concept offensive ever since i was told as a kid certain things were "for adults only". I always thought that was one of the first things needed to be toppled for equality. That any concept can be for anyone that likes it. I'll never understand how people chose to go in the opposite direction again.
@@TheOldMPClub well because Star Wars is kinda made for kids. I mean do you really expect action figures to be bought by adults? No, that is not the demographic. What the criticism is being made that adults are acting like children who fawn and fantasize about fictional stories to the point of nostalgia baiting, and almost like a religious adherence too. It’s not that something like Star Wars is childish, it’s that obsessing over it isn’t good. Much like any fictional story that is meant to entertain. That’s what Moore particularly meant. I think it’s easy to mistake his disdain for comics as nothing more than a Grumpy man but that’s not what exactly Moore says. Firstly, Moore has written mature comic book stories before so it’s odd that he would automatically discount comics. Secondly, What Moore and others alike him are concerned about is the extremist, cult-like adherence to characters and stories that were meant for entertainment. Think of sexism female gamers faced, think of the hardcore fascists/racists who claim comics/movies are “woke” and “feminizing men,” or people just saying extremist stuff like “this ruined my childhood.” It’s this attitude that has gotten people to advocate and vote for popular right wing authoritarians; A wish to go back to “simpler times.” (Even when Simpler times were not at all simple). Plus there is a dark underside to the vigilante heroes of the comic books; the first major motion picture vigilantes were featured in BIRTH OF A NATION. Today, many film critics point out the rather empty politics of the marvel mcu movies that espouse essentially copoganda/American exceptionalism ideals. The new Star Wars movies essentially became apologist stories for fascist killers.
I live near Alan Moore and I met him once. I'm a big fan of his work with the exception of Neonomicon (a terrible read)
He was a rude, obnoxious prick. Never meet your heros kids.
man isnt perfect shocker
@chilledtorsion He swore at me in front of my two year old in a public place just because I said I'm a big fan of his.
The guys a prick.
@chilledtorsion he swore at me in front of my two year old because I said was a fan of his.
@@jackburton1455 Alan Moore from what I gather, will only really talk to you if you talk about anarchism.
Yup, he's right like usual.
Sounds pretty valid to me. It's almost like Alan Moore knows the score.
"Can you dig it?"
@@robertlocock5636 Riffs? Yeah!
❤🖤⚡️🔥
Bruce Wayne auf wiedersehen
Can you dig it?
I think I can see where he's coming from, and there may be some truth in there, but I don't think fans of comic books or pop culture in general were responsible for the rise of fascism or fascistic attitudes, otherwise it's the Wertham thing all over again. The truth is that there has *always* been a toxic element in any kind of fandom but as in all cases, the Internet has given them a wide platform and amplified them. As for Alan Moore, I've been a big fan of his work since his days writing for 2000ad, but for the record I think that in his attitude to comic books he can sometimes come across as being like the older brother who's outgrown the toys he used to love playing with but instead of passing them on to his younger sibling, he takes great pleasure in making the kid watch him destroy them. It may or may not be telling that apart from Steve Moore and Kevin O'Neil, Alan Moore seems to have fallen out with almost every single person he's ever worked with in comics. If anybodys thinking of Trolling me for this simple personal observation don't bother, I won't engage so don't waste your time or mine.
I stopped reading him about 10 or 15 years ago, so I'm sorry to hear he's like that now, if that's true. I certainly wasn't impressed with the last couple of collected League Of Extraordinary Gentlemens. They were just meh imo. And yeah, his work in 2000AD was stellar.
We've always had those people but before the internet they were confined to certain spaces where they could control the narrative, such as in schools or review culture to which most of the world turned a blind eye to. The internet allowed people to network and pretty much proved every fear everyone always said about indoctrination became even quicker to happen. A lie by one youtuber can now reach millions in seconds in contrast to one teacher to a couple dozen students for example.
I'd also cite the war on terror as a major reason, as it justified for many people that sheltering is a good thing. Where the point of life became more about finding safety and affirmation, rather than just learning to accept that you don't always get your way in life. Now for many it's completely normal to do whatever you can to make sure your safe space is the whole world.
The opposition to this still exists, we're just disillusioned to ever getting the genie back in the bottle. It's much more practical to reach people as individuals rather than affect a mass movement.
ah..yes..entitlement
Nothing creates facisim like povery multiplied by corruption times injustice.
I dont think so. When you look at how fascism starts, it does NOT start with poverty. It starts with middle-ish, well saturated citizens, who express their volent urges OUTWARDS from their group to OTHER groups. The poor man or woman are not fascists. They are too poor for that. We should not look for poverty to identify fascism, but to well maintained streets, clean surroundings, impeccable neighborhoods, good infrastructure, well fed people, who are not very aggressive to each other. THEY are mostly the breeding ground for fascists. Look at fascists. They ALL come from good families. Hitler. Himmler. Göring. Gobbels. Or the bolshewiki, who were also fascists, but from the left side: Lenin. Stalin. Trotzki. Fidel Castro. Pol Pot. Mao Tzedong.
They were NEVER poor.
@PandaPanda-ud4ne but they are swept into power by the poor that vote.
@@jc-16. Are they? I am telling you, even the ones who vote for them are seldom poor. They are also from the middle echelon of society. So it was in Germany. The starving people did not vote Hitler into power.
@@jc-16. Capitalism is fascism.
Alan moore is not a black magician...he,s one of the good guys.
I feel responsible for my public outcry when JJ Binks was introduced into Star Wars. I am a nobody, so it's not like I had any influence, but I felt bad after realizing that there was a plan for that character arc, and that I along with other fans may have ruined that arc b/c we thought our opinions mattered more than the creators. One of my big regrets in relation to my favorite fantasy stories. I am sorry George Lucas.
I agree. I heard of the arc, and I find it really cool, and could have been a fun thing to see in the prequels...
@@fedgesmedjji7494 incredibly sad for what Ahmed Best went through. I also was one of those people so I share your feelings of guilt. But fortunately we can grow and mature and do good. I am glad Ahmed got to play a Jedi in Mando and it’d be pretty cool if he showed up in some other stuff as well.
Dunno if you’d regret your overreaction, but that film and that character are genuinely bad no matter what the plan was
I mean the Darth Jar Jar stuff was just a fan theory but yeah people shouldn't have abused the actor like that it was just a movie.
Oh, brother!
I think you and Moore make a lot of excellent points in the video that I 1001% agree with. But I must add a small caveat to this. I fell like comic book creators to put it bluntly are being assholes to fans for no reason at all that is making the situation worse. For example I’m 27 so I’m very young compared to the people you are talking about. And I have experience some of the most cruel and sadistic things I have ever had someone said to me from both creators and fans because I slightly disagree with them slightly on something. Saying if I don’t love this business I’m a,b,c and so on. I think the problem is that comic book creators has become so cruel to people that it’s hurting the industry same with fans as well. I been noticing this trend when I was an aspiring comic book writer in 2016 and knew some big names in the industry even one point mentored by one of them. I tried to warn them about this and all I got was rage and acusing me of being comicsgate. Which for the record I hate comicsgate with a passion. But the warning signs were there yet they insulted my disability and then got rid of me and threw me under the bus. And the whole thing of cancel culture and creators being blacklisted did not help ether it made it worse. The tipping point was ed piskor suicide this past year. Now the industry is hurting, the direct market is on the brink of collapse and all of the things I been saying to pros and fans for years has finally come true. While it is a shame that the world might be leaning into fascism I would argue that there was a chance to corse correct. Find common ground with people and build upon that,be civil and friendly to them take some criticism and compromise to find a happy medium and so on. But unfortunately that ship has sailed. I wish I was wrong but sadly i think I’m not. But great video regardless.
Ya. I was a big Grant Morrison fan. Then I met him in real life. He was a huge douche.
Stay strong young one. The losers see you and envy the traits you have. It calls attention to their deficits.
I'm not joking or "gassing you up" as the kids say. I can explain it in terms you'll absolutely understand. Why I want to, I don't know. I'm laid up sick with a laptop to keep me company.
Whenever someone is upset, it is because the thing that they are upset at is relevant to them. People are never upset if you walk up to them and tell them that "You look like Batman" name anything nonsensical. However, if you notice someone with a slightly larger nose than normal, and you approach to say "You remind me of that Batman film with Devito as Penguin" - BANG! Problem.
Try to the same line on someone with a small nose and you're back to speaking nonsense.
The same thing works with virtues. The negative are envious of virtue because they are called/required to understand how degenerate and self-indulgent their behavior is. I just became aware of the Nicki Minaj and Megan Stallion beef, and when one listens to the attacks, they are accusing the other of degenerate acts ... let that sink in. These two absolutely degenerate women, are trying to mark themselves as more virtuous as the other. Take a look for yourself, it was amazing.
And because Nicki is married to a child touch er, Nicki felt shamed. Yea. Ya should. They still haven't normalized that one yet. They're working on it. Not there yet.
So stand tall against the dirtbags. You will be the last fan left. This guy on the video doesn't realize the fire he is playing with and wants to "play it safe" societally. He doesn't know that the tides have shifted. He definitely couldn't understand what you do intuitively .
@@Superpooch97 yes. Absolutely agree. Not everyone is a nice person. There are people who are rude and have good ideas. There are people who are nice and have bad ideas. I’ll point out however the direct market for comics is not on ‘the brink of collapse’ because of Ed Piskors death (which was absolutely a tragedy, I don’t think anyone should ever be in a place of total despair over a situation like that, it’s pretty upsetting to me), or any other factors, it’s just not anywhere near collapse. Sales aren’t even down relative to recent years by any measure, I have a recent video that addresses this with citations.
But just the same, your core point here is absolutely correct. Kindness pretty much always wins. Nobody changes their mind because someone was a d*ck to them, right?
Nobody would buy a game or comic from a creator they met at a con who was a jerk to them! Heck, I’ve done exactly that! I’ve stopped buying comics from people who were absolutely rude at cons. Honestly that’s entirely fair. Be kind whenever possible, it’s always possible to be kind.
@@MarcoMasseria thank you for the comment and words of encouragement. I have seen from people in the industry and especially from the big two some cruelty and pure smugness, ego and narcissism on display to me and a bunch of different fans. I think as well that’s why people voted for trump. They are sick and tired of being called a bad guy for no reason especially if they agree on them on Almost all social issues and if they slightly disagree with one issue. Boom there canceled and blackmailed and so on. It’s not just a problem in the industry it’s a problem at large. It has become a purity test and I think we can all agree that extremism on both sides can be a horrible things and sadly fandom and the comic book industry has Been plagued with that now. It’s truly make me upset how people and especially fans and creators are acting like children because they disagree with them on something and so on. My breaking point was wen ed piskor died and his the industry has responded especially the editors in chiefs not doing anything and how a lot of creators and fans has responded and even celebrated his death and even encouraged him to kill himself was true discussing and made me walk away as a comic book fan. I wish so badly the creators the enabled this celebrated his death and the publishers that did not do anything about it would be hold accountable for this but as I learned over the years the comic book industry is the only industry with zero accountability. That’s comes from the pros and comic journalist as well. They are all hiding this. There also hiding that certain creators that are in the “right side of history” Done some horrible shit as well that they are covering up as well and I can go on and on. I was going to confront it at a panel at nycc but they will hide under security and say it was harassment. The thing is pros don’t like to get criticize like we saw at the nycc spider man panel. They will get nasty and smug and then double down just to own you. But the Point is I have to love this medium and it’s breaks my heart that this is happening and they have no one to blame but themselves.As Deadpool one said It dose not cost anything to be kind. And I wish the creators would be more kind to people even if they disagree with them ideologically and storyline wise. Lissen to some criticism and make compromises. Same with these fans as well they need to compromise as well and stop being dicks to creators as well just because they don’t like a story. Just say it’s not for me and move on and not make a million video why it’s bad and so on. Point is extremism on both sides have taken over fandom and I sick of it and we need to fix it before it goes off a cliff.Until then Thanks for coming to my ted talk and I’m going to step off my soap box now.
@@TheDOOMCAST hey man! Thanks for the comment and I love your work! To clarify what I said about the direct market collapsing all because of ed. for the record that’s not what I meant. There that was a lot of other things that happened in the industry that has happened to get to this point some of witch is to long to list here and will take me all day to do but I think that was for a lot of people this was straw the broke the camels back. I think when people saw the disgusting behavior form the pros and fans and how they bullied ed into killing himself that they are done with the industry and that they are fed up with the behavior form fans and creators and they are now Starting to walk away. From what I heard online idk if this is true or not so take this with a grain of salt but I won’t be surprised if this is true some creators behind-the-scenes are finishing up there contacts and are waking away to do something else as well because let’s be honest the fact of getting paid peanuts with almost zero royalties as well as no healthcare and the fact that there is this type of drama and politics Going around the industry and people sabotage there careers because they are petty and don’t like what they Believe them is too much for them. It’s ironic to think that superhero’s tought us to be nice and compassionate to other people and treat people with kindness and dignity even if we disagree with them and they are bad. But the people that now write and draw for theses hero’s they we live are hypocrites and are now doing the exact opposite. Idk man. Again I know I sound crazy and I wish I was wrong and I would gladly be wrong but it’s true. I explain in a lot more detail in someone else’s comment that they made to me but yah it’s starting to get bleek. As Deadpool once said it dose not cost anything to be kind.
It's become tiring as someone who is pretty ideologically opposed to Alan Moore how much i have to defend him to discuss any of his work because so much said about him isn't even accurate. This is baffling as where i'm sitting Alan Moore is about as subtle as a hammer.
Given the results today, this will only be weaponised even more now sadly.
I can guarantee, every time a clip from an show or film pre-2000 pops up on my Insta feed, it will always have the usual "couldn't make this now due to all the wokeness" comments repeated ad nauseum.
You simply cannot enjoy nostalgic content without it being politicised.
You could just grow a spine and tell them to f off. People like that depend on their ability to control the narrative. Deny them it and you'll drive them crazy.
Boys who fell in love with comics 35 years ago didn't have fathers who loved comics or played video games. The adult pop culture fan is a modern invention. The hard truth is that to still be a fan of something you loved as a child is to betray not just your own childhood, but childhood in general, for where are the young fans now? What are they doing while we are playing with their toys? To chase nostalgia is not the attempt to regain one's own childhood, but rather the act of stealing some one else's.
This isn’t true. My Dad introduced me to US Comics and Atari nearly 40 years ago. I can’t be the only one.
@@BengaliMartyMcfly I'm sure you are not, but exceptions don't invalidate the rule, right? The point is that comics, video games, movies, etc - Pop culture in general - all that used to be made and consumed for and by kids explicitly, at least far more so than it is now. Now much of that is made to be consumed by those same people, but who are now adults. Which is why it is hardly surprising that it has turned toxic, because there is a sense in which it is poison.
if there are exceptions, then there is no rule and it is merely a pattern. Think about who you harm when you want to falsely call such thing a "rule".
@@TheOldMPClub Ok, you can call it a "pattern" if you want, but the point is the same. I'm sorry if this applies to you and you would rather ignore it, but the modern phenomena of the puerile adult, particularly among males, is both a symptom and a cause of the cultural rot that we are all lamenting. Grown men who concern themselves with the affectations of youth are a poison to themselves and to us all.
@@TheOldMPClub Fine, call it a "pattern" but the point remains the same. The modern increase in the number of puerile adults, especially among men, is both a symptom and a cause of the cultural rot we are all lamenting.
All hail The Cryptkeeper!
Yeah, I'm letting my freak flag fly by praising an animatronic anti-hero.
I'm aware of his E.C. Comics origins. As an 80's child, my introduction to him was the great HBO anthology series.
I make no apologies in praising a well written piece of fiction. Even its Cable Television counterpart. Took the time to purchase the complete DVD series. I occasionally pop one into the DVD Player and watch the uncut entertainment. Not really making a point one way or the other. Just wanted to say here in 2024 that some IPs are better left alone.
Now, let's make sure fellow TALES FROM THE CRYPT contributor Robert Zemeckis stays alive so a certain trilogy doesn't get bastardized!😂❤
Just look at the reaction to the rings of power. He's 100% right
Ultimately the audience is the judge. If the product resonates with a large audience and brings in the expected $$$ (through tickets, mass merchandise etc.) then it is easy to ignore any 'toxic' element (which will always be there and is amplified by social media). Any negativity will be overshadowed by the enthusiasm anyway, so who cares? Of course, if the product isn't resonating as expected, then it simply makes sense to listen to any criticism (as painful as it may be).
No, nerds just love to make it all about the audience and the money. In that metric their money is always equal to everyone elses. Money is money, who cares where it comes from. When someone prioritizes fame or passion over money then the hatedom will always be irrelevant.
Or if you say you don't like something and say so somehow you are the problem,back in the day that was seen by creatives as feedback and was used as a tool to create a better product.
When i buy a product i own it,it is mine and if that product is subpar i have a right to complain.
The good old days did not exist. That's precisely the problem with conservatism -- defending a status quo without recognition of its own negatives. Some people quit consuming superhero fiction when they get older and start seeing it as unbelievable. Some people just criticize the new releases as though the older works they idealize were more believable objectively and not just because they were younger at the time. Yet the fact is that some older people were critical back then of the same older fiction when it was new for the same reason that it did not live up to even older stuff. If you actually do try to create superhero fiction yourself, one of the things you find out is how difficult it actually is to produce anything that cannot be criticized.
A few years ago a started a channel teying to turn people onto great movies. I was so fed up with the disingenuous nay sayers grifting on hate and bile. Then the pandemic hit and i went vack to uni. But the channel is still there and some people tune in from time to time. Its hard to xompete with rage though - the algorithm hates positivity.
I bet after the election he's wishing he wasn't so right.
My generation and older write or draw fanfiction. For God's sakes, if creators are not making what you like. Get into stuff that came out the same time as the comic books or manga did. You will thank me when we're all up there.
It's as tho some people think Stephen King's Misery (the film, I haven't read the novel) is a manual for how to deal with culture that disappoints them.
@@stephenphillips4609 bingo. Someone get me Zeb Wells feet lol
Well, art and entertainment rile up the passions. Without riling up the passions, why would we care? Actually, i marvel at the people, who are surprised that people who consume art and entertainment are passionate about it. Why is that a surprise? Isn´t that the goal? Or are we supposed to analytically, coldly, read books and comics and watch movies and whatnot? Wouldn´t that be strange? Inhuman, even? I often think some people want both, the contradiction: On one side they want passionate readers or watchers...and then they want it not. Relative to what is most convenient to them at a given time. But Fans or Humans in general are not that flexible. If they are passionate, they stay passionate. Even if that is inconvenient to some creators at a given time.
@@PandaPanda-ud4ne Stalker!
Passion is good. But i would prefer the passionate response to not liking the way a story went to being stuff like making your own fanfiction, sending pitches to the owner or creating a rival to compete with it.
I'm not a fan of bullying the owner of something into changing it to please me.
@@TheOldMPClub I am also not for bullying endlessly, do not get me wrong. But saying: THIS WAS SHIT? You can do BETTER? You DID better!
I think that is more than o.k. What people like Alan Moore and Disney demands is a kinda criticism-free reaction from fans. But that is not how it works. And neither should a fan be forced to become creative himself to get his criticism across. Passion does not equal creativity. Only because you are passionate about some Franchise, does not mean you can do better or even do good. It is like finding out that your favorite electrician messed up the light in your house. Are you forced to learn how to set up light in your house to be able to criticize him? Or can you just call him and tell him he did a fucked up Job and you are angry about it?
Commercial creators need the “fan boy money” - it’s nice for the publishers to pretend they don’t care- but they bow too quickly for the cash. Moore created a lot of crap- he wasn’t doing it for the fans- he is a creative. But when he scores a hit with the fans, he still cashes the checks.
I've been reflecting on this very much so in the past couple of days when I hear about young men voting in numbers for Trump and I feel some of it is due to the rabble we hear in the fandoms. XX sucks now because of "woke" when we used to not give a shit about this tuff. Remember when people protested Too Wong Foo or the Rocky Horror Picture Show? Mindless pandering does exist in entertainment, but, holy crap, what have we become?
Scared little babies who would prefer to live in a safe bubble where all the stuff they don't like is gatekept to never get in. But they'll never be happy unless that is applied to the whole world.
where is the link?
Is Pitch Meeting toxic fandom? Is it Critical Drinkers fault that Disney SW and Prime have terrible writers?
I love Alan Moores stories, but people promoting the hammer and seal logo don't have much moral capital in my world
critical grifter you mean?
Hammer and sickle are hallmarks in all of his stories.
....i dont care what anyone says about this. Ive been playing game's most of my childhood and young adult life and i dont think i have ever and i mean ever played an RPG where you choose your d*** size.....soooo that is a little too far. Just sayin.
link?
Alan Moore another one that believes his own hype.
Actually it's stuff like this that feeds and fuel's this confusion and hate we have in the world. People don't buy in to this. This man is part of what is driving people apart in the world. All this stuff in the media from movies to comic books to everything they are trying to divide us. Notice how everytime someone like him talks about this stuff there's always someone to hate. In this case he's talking about you and they get you mad and distracted. This may sound crazy but don't listen to this. Don't get sucked in this stupid culture war they made.
He proudly proclaims he's a hermit with no computer who never engages with modern media at every opportunity anyway, so how does he even know what's going on?
This is not so much a consumer vs artists, as it is a consumer vs corporations who happen to hold the IPs. I see your point about the toxification of the fandom, but there are more toxic sides to all this, including, yes, the woke or whatever the current trend word is.
One more thing. The childishness of adults who, instead of living in the real world, escape into fantasy, computer games, comic books, fantasy books and others, so much so that they no longer live in the real world, but in their fantasy. And anything that doesn't fit in with the old lore but is a development or building of something new they treat as a personal attack on them and this is the reason for their radicalisation and escape to the good old days of their safe childhood. Because instead of going for help with their problems they prefer the drug of nostalgia to ease their pain of existence.
Well, but if the real world is for them less appealing, who are YOU to tell them they cannot flee into the fantasy of computergames, comic books, fantasy books and others? Sometimes nobody can help you with your problems. Nobody can erase your pain of existence BUT nostalgia. Sometimes new things are shit. Sometimes it is good and proper to call out bad work. Why should new things automatically be good, and old things be automatically bad? That does not make sense. Experience tells us that it does not make sense. You say the childishness of adults is such a bad thing. But isn´t the child in us the creative engine of all our art, culture, entertainment? Kill the childishness and you kill what is not necessary and at the end you will live with grim faced miners and farmers, who only know back breaking work and little else.
How much of that so-called "real world" is real to begin with? Or it just a make believe indoctrinating story to control people. Alan Moore's belief system holds that all it takes to change the world is to change how people think about it. In his mind people should focus on more challenging fiction to change the world for everyone instead of stories of super people which can lead to people wanting such figures in real life.
PS: Just please ignore his blatant hypocrisy where we don't have to admit morality and intellectualism are also supremacist fantasies.
In the end, being an anti-hater has no moral superiority. The verbiage by opposition is not more intellectual. No criticism of an industry that has been filled with mediocre people who eat steak every day. Writing silly stories without any depth, and often seeking controversy because it hides their artistic nullity.
Because morality and intellectualism are the parts of the problem that always get a free-pass these days.
"It's owned by it's creators and artist" and anyone is welcome to patronize.
You've got it half right. The art/culture is owned by creator and consumer in balance.
Anything done contrary to that will eventually fail. All relationships are balance and when their is an imbalance the situation will not last as it will likely grow and the relationship collapse. In the same fans can only be upset with Star Wars for so long. Youngest audience are not going to pick up the mantel of social change because the entertainment product produced is garbage.
You'd be wise as a content creator to think on this balance, two side of the same coin.
"Toxic people have made it a war" So if I have a problem with what you're doing that's a problem to me, then I am just objectively the bad guy?
See?
The balance is gone. Watts. You.
@@MarcoMasseria no then you entirely misunderstand. You don’t own someone elses work at all. You’re free to buy or not buy. In this case not buying doesn’t make you a bad guy at all! I clearly stated that.
Go make your own comic or game or book or write a script for a show. Put your own art into the world. How can that make you a ‘bad guy’
I didn’t and won’t simplify it into good guys and bad guys either.
But there’s no benefit to complaining for example that a game or movie or comic should be different because you don’t like it. Suck it up. Don’t get offended and triggered because it contained something you think is dumb. Make something you like then. Create something new. Would a bad guy create something new? No. How could making your own art ever make you a bad guy. And nobody owns what you create but you. That’s what I’m saying.
@@MarcoMasseria “youngest people are not going to pick up the mantel (sic) of societal change because the entertainment product produced is garbage”
Remember when Windsor McCay’s Nemo got boring so nobody protested in congress for a 40 hour work week and weekends?
Dude this is nonsense. If people require specific Star Wars films to push them to ‘societal change’ then we’re already screwed, but nevermind the fact that the original trilogy STILL EXISTS as do the prequels and the novels comprising the EU? Idk man, the more I dig into your comment the more I question the sense of it but thanks for watching and for your thoughts.
@@TheDOOMCAST Thank you for a fantastic and awesome reply. Really.
I better understand your point. It's still not entirely genuine.
You're saying "Go make your own Star Wars, if you can do better" That right?
...
If so, then this is really something, because Leftist have gone full circle. 30 years ago, people with your cultural leaning would instantly go into the market complications and how the powers that be are so entrenched.
Now, somehow, it's all about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps!
You're an interesting mix of cultural Left and market Libertarian. I like it!
I'm not saying they "own" it in a simple sense (legal title), rather, how one attaches their concept of self to something and it becomes part of them/their life and thereby they own it.
That was the subject of your video.
If we approached in a spirit of collaboration and togetherness (sorry if that is too hippy dippy, I don't try to). Fans and artists would work with the other in mind. Fans being more forgiving. Artists respecting fans and what fans respect.
That's not what we have.
We have forced representation that in no way reflects reality and the data.
We have moralistic preaching from actual degenerates.
Thank you again for the engagement and being one of the most thoughtful creators in the space. Love your work and I'll be continuing to tune it.
@ art doesn’t have to represent data. It just represents the artists vision. It’s fantasy, no part of it has to be realistic, from lightsabers to skin color. It’s great that people like Star Wars. I love it. Moores point and mine is that it is a mistaken concept to believe because your self concept becomes somehow attached to something that you own it or have any degree of say in any franchise, and that this is unhealthy. In fact you are proving his point and mine in this very discussion, although I appreciate the civility. Like I say, if people don’t like, for example, current Star Wars, yes create your own sci fi fantasy!
Zack Snyder did! Look what happened with Rebel Moon. I mean…he made something and nobody can take that from him. Did people support it? Idk if they like it more than star wars then whatever, more power to them.
@@TheDOOMCAST Yeah but that does only work with CREATIVE people who can make their own thing. Most people are not very creative. So, they get their beloved IP destroyed by incompetent activists. They cannot just make their own IP, because they are frankly speaking, not artists. Why should they? The burden of criticism is not that youre forced to make your own creative work. The burden of criticism is only to be honest and transparent and as precise as one can be. Just because i do not like the current Star Wars, which is BAD, like objectively, that does not mean i am forced to shut my mouth and make my own 100 Million Dollar Show.
his not right we need superheroes and we need them in real life
We don't. We just need to quietly do what we can day to day and give a crap about each other without sticking our noses in their business when there's no need to.
I see your point and I agree to an extent, but the part where I don't is when you call it 'art'...
I think that's exactly the problem. As long as it's art I have no problem with the changes; but when it feels like a product; when it has an obvious message that has an agenda that goes beyond what the actual piece is or communicates for itself... it's difficult to explain...
I don't care if Gokou is turned into a kid just like in GT and basically now they just re-do GT in the same way in which they incorporated Brolly into the cannon, by changing stuff here and there and basically copy/pasting ideas from a show that I disliked. I'll continue to watch it and enjoy it, I don't care. It's fun.
But the second they try to sell me a new brand of chocolate within the show by having one whole episode of Gokou getting pummeled by a guy whose weak point is a chocolate-powered kame hame ha, then I'll turn off the TV immediately.
That's a very dumb example, but it's what at least I feel makes me walk away from a franchise; when they stop feeling honest, like what happened to the MCU, for example.
Endgame has many great things, but I HATE that ridiculous 'all the girls' scene... it's just way too stupid to be taken seriously and it pulls me out of the movie way too hard... not only is it out of place in a movie like that, it also undermines its very message in a very stupid way.
I think those are the problem with most fans too... but maybe I'm wrong.
I'm going to be honest here because I see the same mistake when dealing with this issue I've seen since gamergate. (Yikes, has it been that long?) I know you were not trying to "both sides" it, but you were kind of "both siding" it. Here's what I mean. You account for the toxic behavior by saying because toxic fans have one reaction, the people reacting to that toxic reaction end up in the same position. This is acting as if both sides are responsible. They are not. This is all because of the racists, the misogynists, the homophobic, the xenophobic - the worse people humanity has to offer making everything. . .well, worse. People reacting to these monsters are not responsible for the behavior of monsters. They are the ones who start this nonsense every single time, and what they do end up getting people hurt and sometimes almost killed. Gamergate begat MAGA, and maga is responsible for the shooting of Gabby Giffords. Many women have been stalked, attacked, SA'ed and in cases unalived by these same toxic people. The people reacting to them do not do any of this stuff. Leftist did not riot at the capital in response to the maga riot. Leftist are not out there sending Amandla Stenberg death and SA threats because she starred in a Star Wars show. You are absolutely right about how fandom becomes toxic, but let's be crystal clear where that comes from. Reacting to monsters, fighting back against monsters is in on way the same as being the monsters.
@@wokeaf1242 i absolutely wasn’t both sidesing it, and even went so far as to clarify that. 6:13 There’s also a prior video linked in there which, may make my position more unmistakably clear if this wasn’t.