When my son passed after 4 months of life, everything and everybody was offering all kinds of help and assistance to my girlfriend (now ex), but I was treated as though I didn't exist, as though I didn't matter. It still angers and hurts me that the system only was out to help her, but treated me like I was invisible. I was glad she was getting help, but what about me, I was/am hurt/destroyed also. If you're a man and you've gone through similar, understand that I got love for you brothers, I weep and mourn with you, and I got your back, but please be aware, if you're a man and you ever go through this or something similar (and I pray to God that it never happens to you), the system will not have anything for you. God bless you
yep men don't matter man in today's society and pretty much since I've been around since back in 67. But I feel empathy for your pain man I do. I lost two daughters in family court and haven't seen them for over 9 years and counting so I know it's not the same thing as you have gone through but it's grieving children that are alive. And again...nobody cares.
@@eyeswideopen67 Men really are just NPC's in women's lives today. We provide, we protect, we serve... but f*ck our feelings and needs and sorrows, they don't even matter. Man up. Be tough, and if you can't handle things, then just GFY. That's their attitude to us.
Sadly, I know you’re right. Sorry for your loss and realization that society does not care. These days I stop and offer help when I see men in need whether homeless or just hurting. Once or if they get over the shock of a sincere offer they greatly appreciate the offer. The help too, if it works out.
The story of the guy in the VA hospital for PTSD hit me in a soft spot a bit. When my ship was on deployment to 5th fleet in 2021, i had a breakdown and ended up confined to the berthing on suicide watch. During that time i was taken to medical to meet with the Senior Medical Office. He started things off demanding that i look him in the eye and berating me for not doing so and acusing me of being disrespectful. He then informed me that he doesnt fly people off the ship for suicideality and asked me what i wanted him do do about my situation. He never outright stated it, but it was abundantly clear that he thought i was malingering and trying to get out of being on deployment. His tone and demeanor toward me was openly hostile. This was done at a time when the ships psych deemed me to be so unstable as to require 24 hour surveillance. This wasnt some low level nurse or hospital corpsman just being an ass out of hand. It was the senior most medical officer in charge of the entire medical department on an air craft carrier. Going out of his way to treat me like i was full of shit. The real world equivalent would be a civilian man being brought to a hospital for suicidal behavior, being called into the hospital directors office, and being told to suck it up stop crying and go back to work. So yeah, what karen is saying about men succeeding more because we know no one gives a shit is probably true.
@@pedrovpa1 OOPS my mistake thats usually the presumption or at least all that seem to be reported but there are cases of women animal hoarders and crazy cat ladies where the animals are quite traumatized
"You would agree with me, I have no doubt, that one woman raped is one too many. Well, i think that one man turned away from domestic violence services because he is the wrong gender, that's one too many too. Being the majority of the victims does not justify a monopoly on the services." - that's the essence of it, basically, Karen summed it up perfectly with this example.
We need to get back to treating suffering, rather than treating victims. Suffering needs no judgement and it is easy to allocate resources to the ones suffering most. Victimhood carries with it a subjective moral judgement that is completely unnecessary.
SOOO true, my brother, a gay man, fell out with a long term boyfriend, had alcohol addiction and ended up homeless. There was NO help what so ever for him. None. Tons for women, shelters galore, services galore, NOTHING for a man in desperate need of help. He ended up in jail and THAT was his recovery. He got out and went to a sober house (cheap, but not free...still and issue when you have nothing). Anyway...there needs to be drug and alcohol services and a safety net for EVERYONE. If he could have afforded any treatment he might not have falling so far down.
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to listen to all of this. We are facing an oppresive culture and system, feminism and matriarchy, we are fighting an hard fight to equality, for men's right. The battle is not over, I know I have to fight long, but at least I know I'm not alone in this battle. Thank you, and sorry for my english, I'm from Italy
I wish we had someone like Karen in my own country. I resonate with a lot of what I hear, but it's so heart-breaking to realize there's no one like that to drive the discourse in other places in the world where it's much needed.
This is an older video but, as a likely older viewer than most, I would submit the following. I remember the 80s very clearly. Throughout the 80s a very directed effort to separate men from other men was enacted. Men’s groups were either forcibly co-opted or shamed into shutting down. Simultaneously, women’s only spaces were created under the guise of necessity for protection from men. Essentially, men were isolated and vilified at the same time. It’s not that men are incapable of expressing themselves. It’s that men are isolated from the people best equipped to receive that expression. Other men. Additionally, any two men who gather are immediately and without hesitation labeled as toxic, violent or dangerous.
I notice this. There is no place where men can meet people. There's a palpable feeling that we're unwanted literally everywhere. Women on the other hand can attract men in almost any setting, and have an abundance of places to meet new women and make friends. The only people I talk to are my coworkers, and I only talk to them at work, about work. It's pretty fucking isolating.
I have found that at meetings of ACA and CoDA at least it is a level playing field. Men can weep and share their deepest fears without cross talk or judgment. Moreover, they can connect with sponsors or fellow travellers when they hit a bottom or when they are in a HALTS (hungry, angry, lonely, tired, sick) phase in their lives. Vast numbers of men are afflicted with the adult children programming/indoctrination: don't talk, don't trust, don't feel.
1:00:28 I've heard the saying that "men don't face their friends, they face their enemies" when it comes to how they interact with other men. I think it's true, at least in my case.
Thanks CAFE and thanks Karen. This is a massively important topic to me, personally. I have been diagnosed with, Agoraphobia with Panic Disorder, PTSD, OCD, GAD, Depression, and more. I was the victim of child sexual abuse, domestic violence, and domestic abuse. The domestic violence situation was on all levels but sexual abuse and she was extremely violent leaving me with physical scars and a head wound that I almost died from. I am now permanently disabled, all but completely bound to my small apartment that I can't afford, and highly medicated even though the medication cocktails have never worked in the 11 years they have been "treating" me. I have been denied funding for therapy by AISH and the community options won't work as they can't accommodate my limitations due to my disability. I can speak first hand about all of the ways mental health in men is either not treated or treated insufficiently. I also can speak firsthand about how a local women's shelter in Edmonton not only refused to help me when I called but tried to get my personal information after telling me that I was the one abusing her. I also called a helpline and got virtually the same treatment. My family abandoned me when I got ill, called me lazy because I could no longer make it to my job (I was a CNC programmer and 3rd year Machinist with a very good reputation and impressive resume who was a computer tech. on the side) and cut me off while I was in the physically abusive relationship. I had only one friend but she didn't like him much so I rarely saw him, although he was the one who saved my life when she left me unconscious and in a pool of my own blood after she bludgeoned me over the head with a metal and plastic phone (the old land lines, not quite as bad as a rotary but not much smaller or lighter) while I was crawling on the floor away from her during an argument. I called my parents that day and left a message on their machine (they were out of the country, I didn't remember that at the time) but even after they got back they never called me back. After I ended the relationship with her (sadly, long after that injury) I was suicidal and called my mom and she told me to do it and then hung up on me. I had never threatened suicide before in my life (though the thought was ever present since I was a teen). Keep in mind, my mom is currently the only support system I have other than a very close friend. After the last abusive relationship and I was thrown out like garbage with nothing but a literal garbage bag with some clothes, a pillow, and some books and $300 in cash she gave me as I left. I was on a waiting list for housing and housing subsidy for over 5 years and despite being in poverty, with rent that took almost all of my income from AISH, I never was accepted and then I was bumped off the list with no notice. I have reapplied twice and am still on that list now, 11 years later. They assure me I am high on the list due to my disability. I am less than confident about my chances. The system is not great for women in my situation either, feminists are doing a lousy job of actually helping them but at least they are doing something, even if it is just to keep the money flowing (I may be a little mistrusting of feminists at this point in my life, despite having been one most of my life). The system is, however, almost non-existent when it comes to men like me. It means a lot to me that CAFE and Karen care enough to address this issue. Thanks so much.
Holy shit, i shouldn't complain about anything lol. What a shitshow, hopefully it'll be a baptism by fire and not eternal damnation for you. Dont give up man.
I to am a survivor of domestic abuse my ex wife tried to poison me to death she also beat the crap out of me. She constantly told me that if I ever tried to leave her she would call the police and tell them I had been marital raping her for years and that they would believe her because she was a woman and I would go to prison. Long story short I ca worked up the courage and left. You are right there is no services out there for men who are victims of DV
There's actually a reason most men don't share their emotions... It's because we *can't* . Before, when we tried, we were seen as cowards, and crybabies. Nowadays, we try to, but when we do, the issues are brushed off and ignored, solely because we're guys!
That's actually not quite true. Men CAN share their emotions. We just need to be weary of how we do it. For an example of how men do this, look at the C.A.B.I.N. project in Australia. Men could come in and work on any project. As they worked on their projects, they would talk; sometimes about philosophy, sometimes their jobs and, sometimes their life situations. The key difference is that men would talk while doing things that helped them move forward in their life.
@@phillippi2 so I need to go out of my way to share emotions in a very specific set of circumstances as opposed to women who get to share emotions 24/7? Real fair
@@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக் No, you don't. There are many ways of sharing your emotions. Some people express their emotions through artwork. Some do it through writing music. Others do it by taking on special projects. I had a friend that made a giant sculpture of a flower, to commemorate the death of his mother. I became a hard worker to honor my uncle passing away. There are many different ways of dealing with stressful situations. With men, it's generally helpful to keep being productive. As long as you're productive, you won't be seen as anything negative. When you stop being productive, that's when you risk damage to your public image.
@@phillippi2 Where is the reciprocity in that? Everyone demands Men to sob&talk like women to "Express" and "Reach Out" for help. When i give snap replies about my problems i get heat for it, no one is kind to me when i talk about my problems, everyone only wants to pretend caring about Men because their lack of concern for Men exposes their moral bankruptcy. This is why Anger&Stoicism is the default emotion for 99.9% of Men, Anger lets everyone know to back off and not bother us. Stoicism helps us regulate emotions while still being functional. *"With men, it's generally helpful to keep being productive"* What part does Society&Family play in this? This is men helping themselves and finding ways to cope on their own. *'As long as you're productive, you won't be seen as anything negative"* Why should i care? I'm a human being and i matter whether i'm "productive" in the eyes of some or Not. Once again, Anger is my friend. If the entire society deems a whole swathe of Men as "useless broken tools" then it is Society that is useless&broken. I am not a TOOL, i am a Person.
@@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக் I suppose you could say; part of the 'issue' is the conflict of expectation and the sub-conscience. As far as 'Reciprocity' goes, I don't think it really matters. I tend to think along libertarian lines: as long as you can make yourself into what you want to be, it doesn't matter what other people think. As far as being a 'tool', let me butcher a saying from 'The Lord of the Rings'. "Being a tool is upon you, whether you would risk it or not." Whether you're someone else's tool or not, you are still a tool of your own sub-conscious.
I know a similar story from a coworker, on whom his wife walked out on without warning and with his car, all his savings and both their kids, to another man, and got basically every right from court un custody and childsupport from him. She manipulated their children in vicious ways against their father, and all her peers aswell. This coworker was such a cynical and bitter asshole to everyone and I couldn't understand until I heard his story. It completely robbed him of any trust in other people and approachability. He put up a barbed wire wall around him to shield him from any possible harm. He loosened up tremendeousely once the obligation for childsupport ran out. He still is unbearable, but much better, and he managed to build a good relation to his kids, since they themselfs found out that their mother was a lying bitch. He might have been an irritating person before marriage, and that his wife just got fed up with him, but even so, this was just uncalled for, and injust in every way. That is just unacceptable.
Great talk and as usual very informative. Thank you to all in favor of these discussions! Thank you Karen for the connections you made, it was as if I was hearing my own personal story in your lecture.
Alright, so, before I say this I feel I should say that I am NOT seeking attention. Nor am I seeking empathy. That being said I am a guy who has thought about suicide almost all my life. I am a smaller guy and not very strong. So I often feel a bit... Disgusted with myself. There are so many expectations of men that I do not meet and for that reason I have always been an outcast. Labeled a "beta male" and told to toughen up. I've also lost several girlfriends to "alpha males". Now, I'm not naive. I know that this is basically nature doing what it does. I don't even bother with girls anymore because I see how things are. But if we live in an "enlightened" society why is that still a thing? Not to mention even when I'm just being friendly to a girl (No "getting with her" intended) I get written off and told I'm sexist. Which is another issue. How am I sexist for wanting to help? I never claimed to be better... Anyways, I just wanted to say that listening to stuff like this has helped me out in a tough time. And I am glad there are people out there who see the BS and hypocrisy. Keep doing what you're doing. And thank you.
1:02:15 That's a good one Karen. I felt that way when I was about 12~13. Granted, I was one of those weird, shy, non-social kids who stayed quiet all the time ... but I became depressed once I hit puberty, and have been struggling since then ... It's weird. I've tried a number of different medications, and even though they help a little, my problem still exists. I know, medications aren't a cure-all. But I've even gone to therapy and such, to no avail. Perhaps, it's just that the therapy is too feminized? IDK... (One therapy was equine therapy. It didn't do too much for me, other than to have fun. Horses are great (albeit dangerous) animals to be around.)
The financial expenditures CAN be made equal. If the government will spend $1000 per month for each female, they can also spend $1000 per month for each male.
1:05:25 I think the problem with the "you should have been tougher" is that it basically reinforces the person's unhealthy state of mind. It tells them that they failed, which although may be true, it will only reinforce their already negative feelings towards themselves.
Couldn't agree more with the bait and switch, led to believe your pain is valid, lied to when told you would be taken care of as if you were as important as anyone else. My family called me Ogre because I couldn't capitulate to their demands, was too mangled from a trauma my father gave me from when I called my mom a bitch, which I had gotten in trouble for even being confrontational about when someone called my mom a bitch daily at elementary school. That dynamic has been present through all the rest of my life, and I wouldn't trust anybody farther than I can throw them. I had one therapist for a while and it took me over a year to open up to her, but when I missed a semester I couldn't see her, and when I returned to shool she was leaving. Haven't talked to anyone else since then, don't really have plans to, really even dislike talking to my girlfriend about it because she can't respond with anything but pity which revolts me but I'm still given no room for error if I even get an aggressive tone because of her issues, I try not to think about it because it's so distressing lol
I don't like the complaint about being diagnosed with "just depression" at 1:03:53. Yes, a ton of people are diagnosed with depression these days, and that means a lot of milder cases are being diagnosed. That doesn't mean some cases of depression are not absolutely crippling and a life-long in impact, like any other chronic illness. The average diagnosis of depression may be less serious than the average diagnosis of PTSD, but that doesn't mean depression cannot be extremely serious, not to mention chronic and difficult to treat.
They need to reinforce doctor patient confidentiality as well. Most men, even if they get help, won't actually open up and be honest because in today's society the physchiatrist may very well label them as dangerous or some type of deviant and all that will happen is the police show up at your door, making your life infinitely worse.
Fuuuuuuuuck, this is in my home town, I could hop on a bus and go here, and I had no idea she was coming to London. Where do I find out locations for these kinds of events? I'll cry if I miss another. Also please tell me thre wasn't a protest, I'll lose it if that kind of garbage happens in my home town :-(
Re: 1:09:11 In the US they don't really give one-on-one talk therapy period. When you are hospitalized due to a crisis they only push medication whether the cause of the crisis is medical or situational. A lot of the advice they give in group sessions comes off as rather patronizing if you're an intelligent rational adult. I don't know if it caters to a feminine mindset so much as it caters to people who are more naturally impressionable in terms of their emotional response to certain types of language.
Men also have the good sense to realize that if you swallow a bottle of pills and survive by calling someone, you are going to wreck your liver and kidneys to the point that life will be even harder. You are going to be tired all the time for the rest of your life.
It is so unusual and heartbreaking to hear people actually talking about men's problems with compassion because it is so rare. This event was hosted in London but everyone who speaks has a North American accent? Is this like a focus group for visiting Americans and expats? Whats going on?
There is still a stigma about mental health issues. Untreated mental health issues can destroy families and effect siblings' lives well into the future.
You could boil it down to: Woman (in general) seek support and Men (in general) is more solution orientated (most Men who have given a Woman a solution when she was seeking support or asking a woman for a solution and be giving empathy know this) but I guess we then need to agree that Men and Woman are different !! and that can lead to the question of putting yourself in others shoes and realize that not everybody thinks like you and they might not need or have to ? Other problem, is like with most other problems in our "modern" world (Medicin, education, traffick Etc.) is that we focus on the symptom and try to fixe that, not using much time on the root to the problem, I guess them people never learned to play chess and maybe think just 3 steps ahead ! “Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its Cause; everything happens according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law.”-The Kybalion.
jffryh Well I can honestly say I am a survivor of a suicide attempt. When you are at the lowest point of your life my friend, you will try to take the easier way out of this world. Being someone with Bi-Polar doesn't help much either. Thank God for CAFE and for compassionate people like Karen who cared about another person's health being....😊
HoldenNY22 ; Celebrate Recovery is developing groups for men and women(separate for each sex) who are dealing with PTSD, depression, OCD and other mental health issues.
Isn''t "Celebrate Recovery" a Christian Group. A Nice Jewish Boy like Me who is also a Bit of Buddhist may not feel totally Comfortable or even Welcome there.
General question. Lawpro discriminates against the mentally ill. Their ableist policies are well documented, and many are embedded in legal education, nation wide. The policies encourage lawyers to misrepresent facts, including those brought by mentally ill clients. (Ie brain injury, aphasia, ptsd etc). Your executive director and intake team are made aware of these issues but treat the person reporting the issues with suspicion (rather than appreciation for bringing the issue forward). What an ccmf and the public do, in a circumstance like this?
How about just allowing us to speak about how the world around us makes us feel? This would help, I just stand around bottled up all the time.. As if my emotions make me some kind of vermin.. lol
Are you convinced it is that important? Talking about that issues won't really help most of the time. "Man up" is these days looked down upon. And it is said we should open up. What about teaching and learning how to cope with trouble and emotions. Psychology is weird shit, opening up can make you focus even more on your problems and to feel worse. Of course it is not fair, but it is unclear to me that we need to process our emotions the same way women do.
Just sent them the following email: *** Karen Straughan and Helping Men Too Destry Griffith 12:26 PM (4 minutes ago) to admin Hi there, To whom it may concern, you are not helping men, and that's fine, but a little birdy told me that you guys might be interested in at least occasionally being willing to provide some services or redirection for men in crisis. It would be especially empathetic and consistent if you were at least willing to offer some guidance toward shelter or other resources for men beaten up by their female partners. Maybe you are already willing to do this, maybe not, I don't know and don't need to. What I do know is that your website is very specific in it's wording, as if your services are available for women, and probably women only. That's the clear implication by the language, and probably the entire layout and design, probably intentionally. And again, that's fine, if so. If that's the deal and you want men to get that message, ok. If not, please consider making some change. ruclips.net/video/RzC6sSJKoXE/видео.html Destry Levi Griffith thatrandomtallguy@gmail.com (503) 207-3114 Attachments area Preview RUclips video Men's Mental Health: A Silent Crisis, with Karen Straughan (London - Feb 27, 2018) *** I know I didn't word that as well as I possibly could have. Tips, criticism, or contact welcome.
Basically men have got to stop being passive women hate nice guys. I did a bad thing last week , didn't want to didn't feel good after , but you know what it worked , and their ain't gonna be any apologies to the women involved ,if I did apologize they would just call me wanker behind my back anyway .
I don't fuking care what women hate I am not here to be what the world wants me to be. That's kind of the whole fukin problem don't you think? Men have to something to someone, we can't just be ourselves
I personally feel that men don't need to work that hard to find that life mate anymore.. Let the do what they want we can find happiness without them if we need to. Way too fucking difficult to navigate this bullshit with them. If a man wants too, I wish them luck perhaps they can find the one for them. But I would suggest to most men.. don't waste your time.
Tonelok when we as men actually make the attempt it is usually a final decision made consciously and deliberately irreversable. When I feel like killing myself I go down by train tracks or high bridges over train tracks. I am a man. Why the fuck would I want an ambulance if I've decided to kill myself? To a masculine mind that seems like a supremely stupid question.
It'd be great for Jordan Peterson to be involved in the development of specialized mental health care courses for boys and men. I'd just hope he'd be able to keep his ridiculous religious philosophy out of it.
Eh, he is still saying the same message of "men need to do more" that feminists use. It reminds me of how George carlin logic on men and women still blames men. "men are stupid. Women are crazy, because men are stupid."
Tell me you don’t listen without telling me. Peterson did some theological studies, definitely. He does not, however, base his entire message around being closer and communing with Sky Daddy. It’s not even the majority. It’s more like 5 - 10% of his message, and that’s only to draw some simile to better describe his point.
When my son passed after 4 months of life, everything and everybody was offering all kinds of help and assistance to my girlfriend (now ex), but I was treated as though I didn't exist, as though I didn't matter. It still angers and hurts me that the system only was out to help her, but treated me like I was invisible. I was glad she was getting help, but what about me, I was/am hurt/destroyed also. If you're a man and you've gone through similar, understand that I got love for you brothers, I weep and mourn with you, and I got your back, but please be aware, if you're a man and you ever go through this or something similar (and I pray to God that it never happens to you), the system will not have anything for you. God bless you
Shit man
I'm really sorry for your son
I dearly hope you can cope with it and go through!
yep men don't matter man in today's society and pretty much since I've been around since back in 67. But I feel empathy for your pain man I do. I lost two daughters in family court and haven't seen them for over 9 years and counting so I know it's not the same thing as you have gone through but it's grieving children that are alive. And again...nobody cares.
@@eyeswideopen67 Men really are just NPC's in women's lives today. We provide, we protect, we serve... but f*ck our feelings and needs and sorrows, they don't even matter. Man up. Be tough, and if you can't handle things, then just GFY. That's their attitude to us.
Sadly, I know you’re right. Sorry for your loss and realization that society does not care.
These days I stop and offer help when I see men in need whether homeless or just hurting. Once or if they get over the shock of a sincere offer they greatly appreciate the offer. The help too, if it works out.
Stay strong man. We are with you.
It is refreshing to see women who remember that men are human too.
I agree. Nowadays, it feels as if we guys don't matter all too much, and to see people treat us as human again is... A breath of fresh air.
It's very nice to hear a woman speaking as compassionately and empathetically about men as you often hear men speaking about women.
I am female and I so appreciate Karen's compassion for men.
And we appreciate yours
Thank you for your compassion!
The story of the guy in the VA hospital for PTSD hit me in a soft spot a bit. When my ship was on deployment to 5th fleet in 2021, i had a breakdown and ended up confined to the berthing on suicide watch. During that time i was taken to medical to meet with the Senior Medical Office. He started things off demanding that i look him in the eye and berating me for not doing so and acusing me of being disrespectful. He then informed me that he doesnt fly people off the ship for suicideality and asked me what i wanted him do do about my situation. He never outright stated it, but it was abundantly clear that he thought i was malingering and trying to get out of being on deployment. His tone and demeanor toward me was openly hostile. This was done at a time when the ships psych deemed me to be so unstable as to require 24 hour surveillance. This wasnt some low level nurse or hospital corpsman just being an ass out of hand. It was the senior most medical officer in charge of the entire medical department on an air craft carrier. Going out of his way to treat me like i was full of shit. The real world equivalent would be a civilian man being brought to a hospital for suicidal behavior, being called into the hospital directors office, and being told to suck it up stop crying and go back to work. So yeah, what karen is saying about men succeeding more because we know no one gives a shit is probably true.
if a dog were treated like men these days..the perpetrator would be in jail right away
If the perpetrator were a Man himself
@@pedrovpa1 OOPS my mistake thats usually the presumption or at least all that seem to be reported but there are cases of women animal hoarders and crazy cat ladies where the animals are quite traumatized
@@pedrovpa1 right lol
"You would agree with me, I have no doubt, that one woman raped is one too many. Well, i think that one man turned away from domestic violence services because he is the wrong gender, that's one too many too. Being the majority of the victims does not justify a monopoly on the services." - that's the essence of it, basically, Karen summed it up perfectly with this example.
The whole thing was quite interesting, thank you all.
"the majority of the victims" - we don't really know the true statistics, so even that may not be true.
Arthur - Brilliant.
We need to get back to treating suffering, rather than treating victims. Suffering needs no judgement and it is easy to allocate resources to the ones suffering most. Victimhood carries with it a subjective moral judgement that is completely unnecessary.
Arthur White Same thing with suicide hot lines.
SOOO true, my brother, a gay man, fell out with a long term boyfriend, had alcohol addiction and ended up homeless. There was NO help what so ever for him. None. Tons for women, shelters galore, services galore, NOTHING for a man in desperate need of help. He ended up in jail and THAT was his recovery. He got out and went to a sober house (cheap, but not free...still and issue when you have nothing). Anyway...there needs to be drug and alcohol services and a safety net for EVERYONE. If he could have afforded any treatment he might not have falling so far down.
Thank you for giving us the opportunity to listen to all of this. We are facing an oppresive culture and system, feminism and matriarchy, we are fighting an hard fight to equality, for men's right. The battle is not over, I know I have to fight long, but at least I know I'm not alone in this battle. Thank you, and sorry for my english, I'm from Italy
max libero bravo sir !
You’re needed now in 2024 more than ever karen
Yes, 💯%‼️ Society has just gotten worse.
@@paulroccaauthor6980 Yea for sure. Much worse.
Karen,is amazing.
I just learned about her today and yes she is amazing
:-) :-) :-)
We all just need to support one another regardless of gender. We all share the same emotions though our struggles may differ.
Karen was excellent as always. Thanks for hosting her both in person and on this channel! :)
I wish we had someone like Karen in my own country. I resonate with a lot of what I hear, but it's so heart-breaking to realize there's no one like that to drive the discourse in other places in the world where it's much needed.
The world needs a clone army of this Karen!! 😆
This is an older video but, as a likely older viewer than most, I would submit the following.
I remember the 80s very clearly. Throughout the 80s a very directed effort to separate men from other men was enacted. Men’s groups were either forcibly co-opted or shamed into shutting down. Simultaneously, women’s only spaces were created under the guise of necessity for protection from men. Essentially, men were isolated and vilified at the same time. It’s not that men are incapable of expressing themselves. It’s that men are isolated from the people best equipped to receive that expression. Other men. Additionally, any two men who gather are immediately and without hesitation labeled as toxic, violent or dangerous.
I notice this. There is no place where men can meet people. There's a palpable feeling that we're unwanted literally everywhere. Women on the other hand can attract men in almost any setting, and have an abundance of places to meet new women and make friends. The only people I talk to are my coworkers, and I only talk to them at work, about work. It's pretty fucking isolating.
I have found that at meetings of ACA and CoDA at least it is a level playing field. Men can weep and share their deepest fears without cross talk or judgment. Moreover, they can connect with sponsors or fellow travellers when they hit a bottom or when they are in a HALTS (hungry, angry, lonely, tired, sick) phase in their lives. Vast numbers of men are afflicted with the adult children programming/indoctrination: don't talk, don't trust, don't feel.
1:00:28
I've heard the saying that "men don't face their friends, they face their enemies" when it comes to how they interact with other men. I think it's true, at least in my case.
Thanks CAFE and thanks Karen. This is a massively important topic to me, personally. I have been diagnosed with, Agoraphobia with Panic Disorder, PTSD, OCD, GAD, Depression, and more. I was the victim of child sexual abuse, domestic violence, and domestic abuse. The domestic violence situation was on all levels but sexual abuse and she was extremely violent leaving me with physical scars and a head wound that I almost died from.
I am now permanently disabled, all but completely bound to my small apartment that I can't afford, and highly medicated even though the medication cocktails have never worked in the 11 years they have been "treating" me. I have been denied funding for therapy by AISH and the community options won't work as they can't accommodate my limitations due to my disability. I can speak first hand about all of the ways mental health in men is either not treated or treated insufficiently.
I also can speak firsthand about how a local women's shelter in Edmonton not only refused to help me when I called but tried to get my personal information after telling me that I was the one abusing her. I also called a helpline and got virtually the same treatment.
My family abandoned me when I got ill, called me lazy because I could no longer make it to my job (I was a CNC programmer and 3rd year Machinist with a very good reputation and impressive resume who was a computer tech. on the side) and cut me off while I was in the physically abusive relationship. I had only one friend but she didn't like him much so I rarely saw him, although he was the one who saved my life when she left me unconscious and in a pool of my own blood after she bludgeoned me over the head with a metal and plastic phone (the old land lines, not quite as bad as a rotary but not much smaller or lighter) while I was crawling on the floor away from her during an argument. I called my parents that day and left a message on their machine (they were out of the country, I didn't remember that at the time) but even after they got back they never called me back. After I ended the relationship with her (sadly, long after that injury) I was suicidal and called my mom and she told me to do it and then hung up on me. I had never threatened suicide before in my life (though the thought was ever present since I was a teen). Keep in mind, my mom is currently the only support system I have other than a very close friend. After the last abusive relationship and I was thrown out like garbage with nothing but a literal garbage bag with some clothes, a pillow, and some books and $300 in cash she gave me as I left.
I was on a waiting list for housing and housing subsidy for over 5 years and despite being in poverty, with rent that took almost all of my income from AISH, I never was accepted and then I was bumped off the list with no notice. I have reapplied twice and am still on that list now, 11 years later. They assure me I am high on the list due to my disability. I am less than confident about my chances.
The system is not great for women in my situation either, feminists are doing a lousy job of actually helping them but at least they are doing something, even if it is just to keep the money flowing (I may be a little mistrusting of feminists at this point in my life, despite having been one most of my life). The system is, however, almost non-existent when it comes to men like me.
It means a lot to me that CAFE and Karen care enough to address this issue. Thanks so much.
Aruthur White, Thanks man. Working on it. :)
Tonelok, you're right about one thing, I DO have a dork brain. Thanks. :)
Holy shit, i shouldn't complain about anything lol. What a shitshow, hopefully it'll be a baptism by fire and not eternal damnation for you.
Dont give up man.
Nine fingers, I do my best. That's all any of us can do. Nobody really has an easy life. We are all a lot stronger than we give ourselves credit for.
I to am a survivor of domestic abuse my ex wife tried to poison me to death she also beat the crap out of me. She constantly told me that if I ever tried to leave her she would call the police and tell them I had been marital raping her for years and that they would believe her because she was a woman and I would go to prison. Long story short I ca worked up the courage and left. You are right there is no services out there for men who are victims of DV
There's actually a reason most men don't share their emotions... It's because we *can't* . Before, when we tried, we were seen as cowards, and crybabies. Nowadays, we try to, but when we do, the issues are brushed off and ignored, solely because we're guys!
That's actually not quite true. Men CAN share their emotions. We just need to be weary of how we do it. For an example of how men do this, look at the C.A.B.I.N. project in Australia. Men could come in and work on any project. As they worked on their projects, they would talk; sometimes about philosophy, sometimes their jobs and, sometimes their life situations. The key difference is that men would talk while doing things that helped them move forward in their life.
@@phillippi2 so I need to go out of my way to share emotions in a very specific set of circumstances as opposed to women who get to share emotions 24/7? Real fair
@@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக் No, you don't. There are many ways of sharing your emotions. Some people express their emotions through artwork. Some do it through writing music. Others do it by taking on special projects. I had a friend that made a giant sculpture of a flower, to commemorate the death of his mother. I became a hard worker to honor my uncle passing away. There are many different ways of dealing with stressful situations. With men, it's generally helpful to keep being productive. As long as you're productive, you won't be seen as anything negative. When you stop being productive, that's when you risk damage to your public image.
@@phillippi2 Where is the reciprocity in that? Everyone demands Men to sob&talk like women to "Express" and "Reach Out" for help. When i give snap replies about my problems i get heat for it, no one is kind to me when i talk about my problems, everyone only wants to pretend caring about Men because their lack of concern for Men exposes their moral bankruptcy.
This is why Anger&Stoicism is the default emotion for 99.9% of Men, Anger lets everyone know to back off and not bother us. Stoicism helps us regulate emotions while still being functional.
*"With men, it's generally helpful to keep being productive"*
What part does Society&Family play in this? This is men helping themselves and finding ways to cope on their own.
*'As long as you're productive, you won't be seen as anything negative"*
Why should i care? I'm a human being and i matter whether i'm "productive" in the eyes of some or Not. Once again, Anger is my friend. If the entire society deems a whole swathe of Men as "useless broken tools" then it is Society that is useless&broken.
I am not a TOOL, i am a Person.
@@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக் I suppose you could say; part of the 'issue' is the conflict of expectation and the sub-conscience.
As far as 'Reciprocity' goes, I don't think it really matters. I tend to think along libertarian lines: as long as you can make yourself into what you want to be, it doesn't matter what other people think.
As far as being a 'tool', let me butcher a saying from 'The Lord of the Rings'. "Being a tool is upon you, whether you would risk it or not." Whether you're someone else's tool or not, you are still a tool of your own sub-conscious.
I know a similar story from a coworker, on whom his wife walked out on without warning and with his car, all his savings and both their kids, to another man, and got basically every right from court un custody and childsupport from him. She manipulated their children in vicious ways against their father, and all her peers aswell.
This coworker was such a cynical and bitter asshole to everyone and I couldn't understand until I heard his story. It completely robbed him of any trust in other people and approachability. He put up a barbed wire wall around him to shield him from any possible harm.
He loosened up tremendeousely once the obligation for childsupport ran out. He still is unbearable, but much better, and he managed to build a good relation to his kids, since they themselfs found out that their mother was a lying bitch. He might have been an irritating person before marriage, and that his wife just got fed up with him, but even so, this was just uncalled for, and injust in every way.
That is just unacceptable.
Great talk and as usual very informative. Thank you to all in favor of these discussions! Thank you Karen for the connections you made, it was as if I was hearing my own personal story in your lecture.
Alright, so, before I say this I feel I should say that I am NOT seeking attention. Nor am I seeking empathy. That being said I am a guy who has thought about suicide almost all my life. I am a smaller guy and not very strong. So I often feel a bit... Disgusted with myself. There are so many expectations of men that I do not meet and for that reason I have always been an outcast. Labeled a "beta male" and told to toughen up. I've also lost several girlfriends to "alpha males". Now, I'm not naive. I know that this is basically nature doing what it does. I don't even bother with girls anymore because I see how things are. But if we live in an "enlightened" society why is that still a thing? Not to mention even when I'm just being friendly to a girl (No "getting with her" intended) I get written off and told I'm sexist. Which is another issue. How am I sexist for wanting to help? I never claimed to be better... Anyways, I just wanted to say that listening to stuff like this has helped me out in a tough time. And I am glad there are people out there who see the BS and hypocrisy. Keep doing what you're doing. And thank you.
Karen sent me. Subscribed. :-) Much love.
Why wasn't this advertised more? I would have loved to come to it!!!
Stuff like this is actively suppressed.
the lack of support and concern about my suicidal tendencies led to me almost succeeding. i feel deeply betrayed by society.
Thank you !
1:02:15
That's a good one Karen. I felt that way when I was about 12~13. Granted, I was one of those weird, shy, non-social kids who stayed quiet all the time ... but I became depressed once I hit puberty, and have been struggling since then ... It's weird. I've tried a number of different medications, and even though they help a little, my problem still exists. I know, medications aren't a cure-all. But I've even gone to therapy and such, to no avail. Perhaps, it's just that the therapy is too feminized? IDK...
(One therapy was equine therapy. It didn't do too much for me, other than to have fun. Horses are great (albeit dangerous) animals to be around.)
The financial expenditures CAN be made equal. If the government will spend $1000 per month for each female, they can also spend $1000 per month for each male.
1:05:25
I think the problem with the "you should have been tougher" is that it basically reinforces the person's unhealthy state of mind. It tells them that they failed, which although may be true, it will only reinforce their already negative feelings towards themselves.
Couldn't agree more with the bait and switch, led to believe your pain is valid, lied to when told you would be taken care of as if you were as important as anyone else. My family called me Ogre because I couldn't capitulate to their demands, was too mangled from a trauma my father gave me from when I called my mom a bitch, which I had gotten in trouble for even being confrontational about when someone called my mom a bitch daily at elementary school. That dynamic has been present through all the rest of my life, and I wouldn't trust anybody farther than I can throw them. I had one therapist for a while and it took me over a year to open up to her, but when I missed a semester I couldn't see her, and when I returned to shool she was leaving.
Haven't talked to anyone else since then, don't really have plans to, really even dislike talking to my girlfriend about it because she can't respond with anything but pity which revolts me but I'm still given no room for error if I even get an aggressive tone because of her issues, I try not to think about it because it's so distressing lol
I don't like the complaint about being diagnosed with "just depression" at 1:03:53. Yes, a ton of people are diagnosed with depression these days, and that means a lot of milder cases are being diagnosed. That doesn't mean some cases of depression are not absolutely crippling and a life-long in impact, like any other chronic illness. The average diagnosis of depression may be less serious than the average diagnosis of PTSD, but that doesn't mean depression cannot be extremely serious, not to mention chronic and difficult to treat.
Men DO have a plethora of police and the legal system to catch and prosecute any man who acts different from the accepted normality.
Dogs have more rights than Canadian fathers and boys
Society tells men to do what’s right
And they tell women to do what’s right for her (;
They need to reinforce doctor patient confidentiality as well. Most men, even if they get help, won't actually open up and be honest because in today's society the physchiatrist may very well label them as dangerous or some type of deviant and all that will happen is the police show up at your door, making your life infinitely worse.
47:10 Bravo, really nicely put.
10:00 Karen approaches the podium.
You do real MVP 👏
Finally some Manliness, the "man" speaking disgusted me, no strong leadership voice...
It would be nice, if for once, they could muster a microphone for the public asking the questions.
Well, it is CAFE after all, we all should be happy that we could understand the speakers. Small steps. Lol
Canadians are cool people.
Karen is such an immensely kind soul. I really hope she builds on that thought about developing something with Jordan Peterson.
Fuuuuuuuuck, this is in my home town, I could hop on a bus and go here, and I had no idea she was coming to London. Where do I find out locations for these kinds of events? I'll cry if I miss another.
Also please tell me thre wasn't a protest, I'll lose it if that kind of garbage happens in my home town :-(
Re: 1:09:11 In the US they don't really give one-on-one talk therapy period. When you are hospitalized due to a crisis they only push medication whether the cause of the crisis is medical or situational. A lot of the advice they give in group sessions comes off as rather patronizing if you're an intelligent rational adult. I don't know if it caters to a feminine mindset so much as it caters to people who are more naturally impressionable in terms of their emotional response to certain types of language.
Men also have the good sense to realize that if you swallow a bottle of pills and survive by calling someone, you are going to wreck your liver and kidneys to the point that life will be even harder. You are going to be tired all the time for the rest of your life.
this is angering and heartbreaking
It is so unusual and heartbreaking to hear people actually talking about men's problems with compassion because it is so rare.
This event was hosted in London but everyone who speaks has a North American accent? Is this like a focus group for visiting Americans and expats? Whats going on?
There is still a stigma about mental health issues. Untreated mental health issues can destroy families and effect siblings' lives well into the future.
You could boil it down to: Woman (in general) seek support and Men (in general) is more solution orientated
(most Men who have given a Woman a solution when she was seeking support or asking a woman for a solution and be giving empathy know this) but I guess we then need to agree that Men and Woman are different !! and that can lead to the question of putting yourself in others shoes and realize that not everybody thinks like you and they might not need or have to ?
Other problem, is like with most other problems in our "modern" world (Medicin, education, traffick Etc.) is that we focus on the symptom and try to fixe that, not using much time on the root to the problem, I guess them people never learned to play chess and maybe think just 3 steps ahead !
“Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its Cause; everything happens according to Law; Chance is but a name for Law not recognized; there are many planes of causation, but nothing escapes the Law.”-The Kybalion.
Rubim Ellmelech
Perhaps for both sexes, so many women are beguiled by their competition.
How can I help?
I wish I could have got help
whats the opening song?
I can honestly say that I am not a survivor of a suicide attempt, unless you consider not taking better care of my health as a suicide attempt.
jffryh Well I can honestly say I am a survivor of a suicide attempt. When you are at the lowest point of your life my friend, you will try to take the easier way out of this world. Being someone with Bi-Polar doesn't help much either. Thank God for CAFE and for compassionate people like Karen who cared about another person's health being....😊
Wayne McLaughlin I hope for you to be well. I was just trying to be pedantic about a thing the guy said toward the beginning.
citric2acid was I? I didn't really mean to offend anyone
Karen starts at 10:16
She starts speaking @ 10:09
10:08 Karen arrives at podium
Is there a C.A.F..E Style Organziation in the United States.?
I doubt it.. males in ‘murica are public enemy #1
HoldenNY22 ; Celebrate Recovery is developing groups for men and women(separate for each sex) who are dealing with PTSD, depression, OCD and other mental health issues.
Isn''t "Celebrate Recovery" a Christian Group. A Nice Jewish Boy like Me who is also a Bit of Buddhist may not feel totally Comfortable or even Welcome there.
I’d still love to see this come from a feminine woman and not one that I can barely define the gender of
Think it's better to hang out with mentally healthy people if your not mentally healthy, ironically. Social media doesv the opposite it seems.
General question. Lawpro discriminates against the mentally ill. Their ableist policies are well documented, and many are embedded in legal education, nation wide. The policies encourage lawyers to misrepresent facts, including those brought by mentally ill clients. (Ie brain injury, aphasia, ptsd etc). Your executive director and intake team are made aware of these issues but treat the person reporting the issues with suspicion (rather than appreciation for bringing the issue forward). What an ccmf and the public do, in a circumstance like this?
How about just allowing us to speak about how the world around us makes us feel? This would help, I just stand around bottled up all the time.. As if my emotions make me some kind of vermin.. lol
Are you convinced it is that important? Talking about that issues won't really help most of the time. "Man up" is these days looked down upon. And it is said we should open up. What about teaching and learning how to cope with trouble and emotions. Psychology is weird shit, opening up can make you focus even more on your problems and to feel worse. Of course it is not fair, but it is unclear to me that we need to process our emotions the same way women do.
make your children capeable to carry a burden and not to get kicked out of their life by any small problem ..
Jail for Justin
Male Psychology Selfhelp Therapy_ Dr Paul Dobranski (Depresculinity/ MindOS/...)
Just sent them the following email:
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Karen Straughan and Helping Men Too
Destry Griffith
12:26 PM (4 minutes ago)
to admin
Hi there,
To whom it may concern, you are not helping men, and that's fine, but a little birdy told me that you guys might be interested in at least occasionally being willing to provide some services or redirection for men in crisis. It would be especially empathetic and consistent if you were at least willing to offer some guidance toward shelter or other resources for men beaten up by their female partners.
Maybe you are already willing to do this, maybe not, I don't know and don't need to. What I do know is that your website is very specific in it's wording, as if your services are available for women, and probably women only. That's the clear implication by the language, and probably the entire layout and design, probably intentionally.
And again, that's fine, if so. If that's the deal and you want men to get that message, ok.
If not, please consider making some change.
ruclips.net/video/RzC6sSJKoXE/видео.html
Destry Levi Griffith
thatrandomtallguy@gmail.com
(503) 207-3114
Attachments area
Preview RUclips video Men's Mental Health: A Silent Crisis, with Karen Straughan (London - Feb 27, 2018)
***
I know I didn't word that as well as I possibly could have.
Tips, criticism, or contact welcome.
Um, uh, we like to call it peopletal health.
1:03 Karen is an accidental(?) Continuum mother! www.continuum-concept.org/
I agree with her on many levels but why dressing and behaving like a man? The admiration for them goes too far
Not even his daughter and he has to pay child support
Basically men have got to stop being passive women hate nice guys. I did a bad thing last week , didn't want to didn't feel good after , but you know what it worked , and their ain't gonna be any apologies to the women involved ,if I did apologize they would just call me wanker behind my back anyway .
I don't fuking care what women hate I am not here to be what the world wants me to be. That's kind of the whole fukin problem don't you think? Men have to something to someone, we can't just be ourselves
surprised you were able to talk about this in London....it's a very feminist city.
I personally feel that men don't need to work that hard to find that life mate anymore.. Let the do what they want we can find happiness without them if we need to. Way too fucking difficult to navigate this bullshit with them. If a man wants too, I wish them luck perhaps they can find the one for them. But I would suggest to most men.. don't waste your time.
damn guys we rly fukd up somewhere when designing this patriarchy of ours... i feel so privileged.
Repeal the 19th.
Keep your religion out of politics.
When men attempt to take their own lives ambulances are generally useless.
Tonelok when we as men actually make the attempt it is usually a final decision made consciously and deliberately irreversable. When I feel like killing myself I go down by train tracks or high bridges over train tracks. I am a man. Why the fuck would I want an ambulance if I've decided to kill myself? To a masculine mind that seems like a supremely stupid question.
Sadly it's more about the failed mental health care
It'd be great for Jordan Peterson to be involved in the development of specialized mental health care courses for boys and men. I'd just hope he'd be able to keep his ridiculous religious philosophy out of it.
Eh, he is still saying the same message of "men need to do more" that feminists use. It reminds me of how George carlin logic on men and women still blames men. "men are stupid. Women are crazy, because men are stupid."
Tell me you don’t listen without telling me.
Peterson did some theological studies, definitely. He does not, however, base his entire message around being closer and communing with Sky Daddy. It’s not even the majority. It’s more like 5 - 10% of his message, and that’s only to draw some simile to better describe his point.
Boy, she is hard on the eyes, huh?
Needs a hairstyle and appropriate attire.
Dont judge someone by how they look, when what they have to say is so valuable