So one tiny thing, blade ward is concentration meaning you can’t have it up when doing double sneak attack, since to ready the magic action to do an off turn true strike, you have to concentrate on true strike until your defined trigger comes up and you fire off your glowing light arrow 😊
I want to point out that if your dm allows an illusionist bracers by taking ready truestrike. Per the rules of the ready action, you cast the spell as normal holding the release of the spell. This means it triggers the bracers allowing you to bonus action cast the cantrip.
I totally thought that I was subscribed already until I just now checked. I'm even in the discord, apparently just never actually hit the button. Excited to now (actually) be subscribed!
The preview of the new DMG had a big focus on flushing out the magic item crafting system which is only going to make this build skyrocket in power and versatility!
@@cmccbuilds8229doesn't truestrike have the same material component wording as booming blade and green flame blade? Someone in the last vid's comments mentioned how, RAW, you can't make spell scrolls from spells that have a specific cost for their material components, in this case the weapon worth at least 1gp. It does say that you need to provide any material components used for the casting when scribing the scroll, so idk how you'd do that unless you just buy and keep a ton of the same kind of weapon you're using on hand.
I think the main argument going around is that scrolls don't explicitly say they use the magic action to activate, rather you can cast a spell from a scroll using the same casting time from the spell inscribed therein. This is different from using a magic action to activate an item. It's dumb. Edit: there is probably a belief that "scrolls" are just an item that allow you to cast a spell but don't require a magic action themselves. I believe that the intention for scrolls is to have an action requirement for the scroll itself that is identical to the casting time of the spell, which would make each scroll unique (sort of). Might be reading too much into this though.
Building a true strike thief right now for a Ghost of Saltmarsh game. I took a bit of a different path since my PC will be the "first mate" which will be charisma heavy. I went human and took Magic Initiate (Wizard). One of the cool things is that you pick your spell list and spells, then you pick your casting stat, but it's two separate choices. So I sniped True Strike (also Message so I can communicate silently while taking advantage of my climb speed) but I cast it with Charisma. Now there's a RAW/RAI discussion around whether this means I can scribe scrolls with the calligropher tool since these spells were sniped from the wizard list and aren't on the rogue's list. But Crawford had errata'd scrolls from 2014, stating that Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters are considered to have the wizard's spell list for purposes of scrolls. So we'll need to see if that also holds true for Magic Initiate. My guess is no, and that's how I'm playing it. But it's not a big deal because TS scrolls are only 30 GP. And even if there's an argument that the scroll wouldn't use my 16-18 charisma, that's fine because the cantrip scrolls also rule that it has a +5 to attack. 30 GP per scrolls is fine even in a lower money game, because I don't want to be doing it every round anyway. It's such a huge departure from every other class's damage curve that I don't want to be "that guy". I'm limiting it to once a battle, maybe twice a long rest. Same reason I told my DM she'd be a fool to hand out a wand of fireball, because no one else is going to be able to keep up if I'm fire balling twice in a round.
You can scribe spells if you have them prepared and you are proficient in arcana or calligrapher tools (so magic initiate works). But you need the dip in wizard to cast the scroll, since as Thief you don't have a spell list. Unless you start at lvl 13, then you can cast the scrolls with your lvl 13 subclass feature.
@luciajulio Fair enough, I'll point that out to my DM. We've got a grappling monk in our group, so I think I can still semi-reliably get off reaction true strikes with sentinel and war caster by level 8.
I had figured out the Thief True Strike build myself after watching Treamtmonk's video. He went with Assassin but Thief is way better in my opinion. I would probably go with Wood Elf for that ranger feel. Longstrider and Pass without Trace are much better than Detect Magic and Misty Step if you ask me. Your video really took this idea to the next level though!
For ranged weapons I think you need to use hand crossbow instead of shortbow, since that requires two hands to attack and if your casting True Strike from a scroll to make the attack then you need a hand free for the scroll.
@@cmccbuilds8229 It says you need to read the scroll, how are you reading the scroll without having the scroll out? See this is where theorycrafting meets actual playing, but have fun convincing a DM that you can read something that you can't see.
That's easy enough... My character wrote the scroll, knows exactly what words they wrote. In fact, they have written the same scroll, tens if not hundreds of times. So they read the scroll from their memory... and that then discharges the scroll in your backpack or pocket etc. I guess it just comes down to your interpretation of 'reading a scroll' is HOLDING and LOOKING at a scroll whereas that is nowhere in the rules. As a DM I would allow it, especially for scrolls that the player's character themselves had written and used over and over and over.
@@Sweet_Zombie_Cheezuz It says read the scroll, not recite the scroll. You are correct that it does not spell out that you must be using at least one hand to hold the scroll open so that you can read it, however I think that is a much more reasonable interpretation than you can just do it. Also logically using a feature called "Fast Hands" that lets you "Use and Object" would also make me think of something you would reasonably have to hold. If a DM lets you do otherwise, that is their interpretation, but saying that the other interpretation is strictly wrong I have a problem with.
You can do take a different background skill in the D&D Beyond Character Builder if you already have it from your class, but that just leftover bug from 2014 rules, in the 2024 rules you don't choose your skill proficiencies from your class until after you have chosen background. You can break the 2024 rules in other ways when you use the Character Builder, like putting the +2 and +1 Ability Scores adjustment from your background in the same Ability.
Where does it say in the phb that you must take origin before class? I know it’s recommended, but didn’t see that it was mandatory. Post page number please.
@@cmccbuilds8229 Chapter 2: Creating a Character describes how you make a Character and that description you choose your class at step 1 but have to wait with some of the details (like skill proficiencies), you pick your origin at step 2 and you don't pick your skill proficiencies from class until step 5. I only have the electronic version and they didn't give it page numbers, sorry.
@sortehuse I’m aware of that. This seems like a suggested route not a mandatory part of character creation. All level 1 stuff happens at the “same” time as far as I’m aware. Origin doesn’t happen before class. And if there is duplication in skills, you choose a new skill. If I’m wrong - do what i said in the video and take the custom background (it’s better anyway)
@@cmccbuilds8229 The rule about if there's duplication in skills, you choose a new skill was a rule from the 2014 PHB. There is no need for that rules in the 2024 rules because you choose your background before your skill proficiencies from your class. Many DM would probably allow anyway.
How can you sneak attack twice when the PHB says you can only sneak attack once per turn? I can see two attacks, one with each hand but there can be only one sneak attack
@cmccbuilds8229 you were pretty clear that it's two sneak attacks per turn. One with a bonus action, one with the action. That's incorrect based on the PHB. However, at level 17, you can use sneak attack twice in round one, because you get two turns.
This is very interesting I like it a unique play style and gives you almost a mini task to complete when adventuring about! but I did have a question I might have missed it but what was the persuasion proficiency for?
He took proficiency in persuasion so it would override the persuasion proficiency in the merchant background, allowing you to choose another skill as part of your background so you can select Arcana 😊
Im so exited about the 2024 artificer! Would a build around the armorer infiltrator and the rogue thief work if we try to utilize sentinel feat and the battlemaster riposte/brace maneuvers for double sneak damage? 4 attacks per round without extra extra attack and with a shield and also double trustrike maybe start dwarf with tough feat for tamkyness but iI think woodelf with lucky is a better option for Damage and partysneakyness at lvl 5 artificer infiltrator could get Plate armor, shield +1 and the shiledspell ready at lvl 3 !and also do the sneaking/scouting with heavy armor! rapier (vex) and shield (maybe lightnig launcher (+1d6 once per turn) with sharpshooter?) at lvl 4 sentinel at lvl 5 extra attack then rogue thief at lvl 8 for utilize magic item and use true strike two times per turn (artificer could craft scrolls with truestrike) with sneak attack as race elf would be nice to have longer crafting times and get elven accuracy at lvl 9 (rougue 4) Using Fearyfire etc. for concentration could get reliable advantage tu use triple advantage. building battlemaster for riposte/brace maneuvers in to maximise the tank (taunt) and damagepotential (2x sneakattack per round) maybe from there on rougue the rest for more sneak attack damage and evasion (for tank purpuses) also 4 attunements! or artificer the rest for more attunements than 4 and more spells or wizard evoker for potent catrip and never missing a trustrike I would really apreaciate your professional opinion or community opinion on this build. Are there any suggestions to optimize? would it be better to go with dexterity or intelligence as mainstat?
I love this build but have one question.... would it not be better for the mid tier play to get 3 levels of wizard and take the illusionist (or Diviner) subclass? it would make the level 20 split 17/3 but I don't think it would make your DPR drop too much. Just curious about your thoughts on this.
Just for consideration, taking wizard to 3 means you get evoker cantrips, so you deal half damage regardless. Means you effectively don't miss. I'm sure you also considered warcaster on this build too.
I did something like this for a level 20 One shot. I went with thief 16/Diviner 4. I had decent access to magic items, so I grabbed 2 Decks of the Oracles and a scroll of Simulacrum. Effectively 6 Portent dice, all of which rolled under a 10, so I saved them all for making enemies fail saves. I also went with Tiefling and took the Boon of Dimensional Travel for Nightcrawler shenanigans… still pretty similar.
@@cmccbuilds8229 I know! But DM let me double up on Epic Boons. The Auto Hit Combat Prowess is nutz and Dimensional travel when you take all of your actions and bonus actions as Attacks or Magic Actions…. I never got stuck in melee!
I disagree! 22 Int, never miss, never get stuck in melee, while still getting 2x Sneak attack reliably. Why wouldn’t I want that? The double turn is great, no joke, but it means less when the combat goes on for longer. Without the two Boons I would have done half as much damage from rolling terribly and taken way more damage from the enemies due the nature of the cage match we found ourselves in for the final battle. The attacks could never target me and only targeted our Monk, who was the Prince of All Saiyans
Paladin: Let us ride forth and save the village from certain doom: Rogue: Sounds good. I’ll be ready in month when I finish my trustrike scrolls. Seriously though, cool build.
So on the D&D app, it seems like elven accuracy is only available for the 2014 elf not the 2024 elf so you wont get stuff like detect magic and misty step (which Im okay with) I dont know if thats on purpose.
This build comes online L4 so perfect for a L1-L4/5 starter adventure. Complete it then ask your DM how much downtime there will be between campaigns (craft scrolls) ready for the next one.
Sounds amazing, BUT: How long does it take to craft a cantrip spell scroll? Even ignoring the cost, typically, we assume 4 fights with 4 rounds each and 1 short rest per long rest. So thats 16 required scrolls per day pre lv 17(18) and 5 hours downtime per day without making other players wait in ingame time. I actually don't know how long it takes to scribe 16 scrolls but I would assume this cannot be sustainable without help of others, days of downtime or an agreement to chill a while each morning.
Would this be any better than a war cleric rogue? High elf same build take true strike and use WIS over int? Then you don’t even need to scribe scrolls, and just reverse the attack order. BA attack with war cleric, hold action to true strike. No scroll necessary. Does need 3 in cleric tho. You’d probably still want one wizard too for the spell list. But still, seems more table efficient without the need of scrolls. Maybe arcane trickster could help with scrolls.
3 in cleric is rough here and it’s limited and it’s an attack vs true strike casting and you need to progress dex and casting stat pretty closely (more closely than I did)
What about interaction economy and hands economy? Do you need to hold weapon (ranged I suppose) AND scroll in you hands? You can use one-handed cross bow to prevent this problem. But you need to draw two scrolls in one turn. If you start turn with scroll #1 you can interract and draw scroll #2. But at 17th lvl when yoy do two turns in first round you wouldn't have enough interaction actions. Maybe I miss something. I'm still don't have my copy of the book, nor fluent knowledge in English 😅
You don’t need to draw two scrolls in one turn. Your character knows the True Strike cantrip and can cast it as normal using their held action. The bonus action casting is the only one that the the character needs a scroll for.
@@MrSlutzkin yeah, you are right. I've had some kind tunnel vision. But what about hands economy? Is it still the case? Or maybe I miss somthing else.. Is it must have do use one handed crossbow?
@@cherry_buzzsaw Copied from my answer on this elsewhere in the comments. That's easy enough... My character wrote the scroll, knows exactly what words they wrote. In fact, they have written the same scroll, tens if not hundreds of times. So they read the scroll from their memory... and that then discharges the scroll in your backpack or pocket etc. The act of reading a scroll doesn't have to mean holding and looking at it. It's not written in the rules that you have to hold the scroll to cast it. As a DM I would allow it, especially for scrolls that the player's character themselves had written and used over and over and over.
@@Sweet_Zombie_Cheezuz that's interesting one. It could be a nice from flavour perspective. If this allowed, you could make energy cells instead of crafting scrolls. Or maybe magic beads, like chronourgist wizard do. Something like spellslots but in physical item. Good good
For true strike I don’t think you have to worry about the attack and damage mods the scroll provides, as true strike isn’t a spell attack but a modification to the attack your making with the weapon that’s the material component of the spell. Regardless, you’d still definitely wanna scribe the scrolls for the cantrip scaling to the damage dice.
This is incorrect. Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice). Cantrip Upgrade. Whether you deal Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type, the attack deals extra Radiant damage when you reach levels 5 (1d6), 11 (2d6), and 17 (3d6). So it directly states it uses your spell attack, so you really do care about the modifier as it uses your spellcasting ability (or in this case the scrolls) for attack and damage
@@cerberus003 So, it says it uses YOUR "spellcasting ability", so specifically NOT the spell attack modifier offered by the scroll. Since you are 1 Wizard, that would be your INT + your Proficiency to attack and damage rolls for the attack. That's my take, anyways :)
I probably missed something, but is the one level dip of wizard necessary or more for utility? What’s preventing you from scribing the True Strike achieved from your elf species?
If you want to stick with dex int backgrounds in the new phb go scribe. Skilled gets you more magic crafting (make your own wands and magic items to use as bonus actions instead of relying on the dm) depending on what skills you take. Woodcarver gets staffs and wands and there’s a ton of good options that take advantage of only 1 level in wizard. Since it costs 15 gold every turn you try to do this combo maybe make an enspelled bow for 400gp to get 3-6 of those true strikes per turn for the earlier levels. If you get 30 uses out of it before you reach the middle levels, can’t imagine you won’t, it will pay for itself. Hell make two and some scrolls for backup if you’re worried about the charges running out.
Could also pick Shadar-kai and be able to select whichever tool proficiency you want after each long rest. Shadar-kai + Arcana lets you craft anything that doesn't cast a spell.
Pg 168 of the phb (I’m not sure why you’re saying “elf wizard”. It’s not unique to elves. Unless you’re asking about the high elf’s racial traits? Did you read the book?
11:51 I don’t see any wording that Thief’s Reflexes would reset your reaction. You’re taking a second turn in the same round at a lower initiative. Your reaction wouldn’t refresh until the top of the next round.
@@cmccbuilds8229 I’m saying that it doesn’t. Your second turn is in the same round. And you only get one reaction in a round, therefore only one chance to trigger a Readied action.
@sardonicpoet this is incorrect. I’ll save you the trouble. “When you take a Reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your next turn” How many turns do you get in round 1?
I mean, it costs you 15 gold and one day crafting for each bonus action attack, thats not the best deal unless your DM just showers you with gold and downtime... I mean, if we go with 4 encounters per day, each encounter taking about 4 turns on average, you would need 16 spell slots per adventure day. Thats for one 240 gold per day spend, plus you need 16 days to prepare for the one adventure day, since crafting a scroll takes 8 hours.
@@cmccbuilds8229 The PHB clearly states that a workday gives you 8 hours. They didnt measure in hours for crafting but workdays. But even if we ignore that and say your Elf can craft 24/7 when not sleeping, youll still need over a week to just prepare for one day.
@@Raoul97534 encounters in a day sounds crazy to me but you also realize that true striking every turn is not always the most efficient thing to do right?… And you also don’t actually need to use true strike scrolls for this, you can also use an off hand weapon so that you aren’t always burning a true strike scroll.
Direct question for you all: Do you think it would be RAW for a Wood Elf to scribe scrolls of Longstrider or Pass Without Trace if you don't dip in Wizard? My own version of this build does not dip and takes Fey Touched: Bless for that juicy team buff that never goes out of style! Imagine BA casting Bless in the first round!
There is only one thing you need to talk to your DM about, which should ALWAYS be mentioned in such videos. True STrike requires a material component that is a weapon. Scrolls provide components when created. Does the DM approve that the weapon is provided as a component for the scroll, even though the weapon is clearly the one you are attacking with ( you are attacking with the material component, essentially). I would personally allow it, go ahead and hit them with the scroll ln the head, or maybe a spectral blade manifests for that attack only, idk, but there can easily be many DMs that will tell you "nope" so don't ASSUME that your DM will be ok. NEVER assume what others will conclude, especially when it is tricky like this!
@@cmccbuilds8229 That’s fair, but certain DMs might make this cost/time prohibitive. I also think you could do this with a Warlock if you preferred to use Charisma.
@kylesutliff8258 certain DMs will do lots of crazy stuff. Work your build out with your dm and make sure they’re not going to dick you over. That should go without saying
The thing is, you really don't need to use it very often in order to get ahead of 'typical' Rogues and shorten combats. Also, there are tons of magic items that are really good with Fast Hands (including ones that are quite reusable, like Pipes of Haunting and such), not just scrolls. Also, scrolls just aren't very expensive in 2024. To put it into perspective, if you can purchase scrolls (they're in the default equipment list now), simply the money saved from not buying plate armor is enough for 50-100 scrolls, which is enough to carry you for a long time -- during which time you'll be building up more resources to use.
interact with object would allow a character with a free hand to draw a scroll but without a possibility to stow the use scroll, with result that the character would leave a paper trail.
@@cmccbuilds8229 It seems really odd. The Merchant background can suddenly become a mystic route to arcane mystery, just because a character's rogue training schooled them in persuasion. That's just stupid. They've got the cart before the horse. I wonder what parts or developer's history he or she would like to rewrite. 🤣 Surely someone would normally have a background, and add to that. As it is a player is saying I'll choose more of the same, so the game saysn no you must have even more variety. That's bonkers.
The only problem with this build is a campaign setting with low-magic and/or low wealth. Scribing scrolls requires special inks, and even if there are people making the ink, if the party is not finding tons of gold, your pocket book will be filled with nothing but moths. All that being said, if coin and ink are plentiful enough, thief would be the strongest rogue subclass for sure. No conditionals to get that good damage other than the cost of the scrolls themselves.
Yeah I say that in the vid. Why are you picking this build if you can’t spare 15 gp per scroll or you’re not getting magic items from the DM? Your fellow adventurers should give you money to scribe too since you’re so damn powerful :)
Ive commented this before, as have some others in this video and the last one related to this build, but I still believe there is one huge issue with casting truestrike through a spell scroll. Per the rules of casting and scribing spell scrolls, you need to use any material cost associated with the spell when you are scribing the spell, and you do not use any other material components when using the scroll itself. Truestrike has a specific material cost, a weapon worth 1 gp. It would become DM dependant on whether or not you could just use the same weapon you had on you when scriving the scroll, but its not a guarantee that you CAN do this at all RAW. Youd think this would be touched on, but it seems like I can't even find the older comments. Some clarification on this would be great considering it is the main interaction of the build.
Yup and he changed his “combats per day and rests” to the exact same as mine from 2021. Parallel tracks. I probably won’t do my own baseline at this point.
Why wouldn't you take Night Spirit epic boon with this build to further help with maintaining advantage and for incredible survivability? Truesight isn't super necessary in most cases, and can be achieved through a scroll or a magic item anyway.
@@cmccbuilds8229 my point is that it's still a less useful epic boon to take than Night Spirit in 90% of cases, even before you consider that true sight can be acquired in several other ways. It's even more important because you can't be running Blade Ward with this tech due to it requiring concentration. Epic Boon of Speed also a strong contender for when your rogue doesn't need damage boosts.
I guess my confusion comes from the 13 Thief ability. I dont understand why they meed to include a paragraph for spell scrolls specifically if they already have the ability to use the magic action at third lv. "Scrolls. You can use any Spell Scroll, using Intelligence as your spellcasting ability for the spell. " Ya i just dont get why they have that lv 13 bit.
because without a spell list, they weren't able to use scrolls at level 3 hence the Wizard dip. level 13 features allows the Thief a subclass without a spell list to use scrolls, if they pass arcana check.
Doesn't it take 8 hours to craft a cantrip scroll though? You only get 4 hours of elf sleep advantage a day. I find that would limit this builds effectiveness.
@@cmccbuilds8229 For each day of inscription you must work for 8 hours. I do agree that over time you could build up a supply, but if you're burning through a few every combat, it's limiting. I sincerely like this build, it's a creative use I hadn't considered. Thank you for sharing this.
My point is that you can find those 8 hrs throughout the day or even another day if needed. A long rest alone eliminates half the time. You’re not necessarily adventuring for 16 hrs each day. Find the other 4 hours or worst case wait a day.
@@apjapki You've got something here! Bastions can craft now, I believe, so just set up a shop of 100 old ass monks copying scrolls all day. problem solved!
I want to like this video, but it needs to be corrected. 1. You can't use sneak attack more than once per turn (until level 17). 2. What is triple advantage? 3. How are you calculating your % chance to hit? What AC are you targeting? 4. Your damage per attack seems high, if that's your calculated average. How did you arrive at that number? 5. You made it seem like you can craft a scroll during your long rest. But crafting a cantrip scroll takes 8 hours, you need to be in a trance for 4 of them.
@cmccbuilds8229 Well, later when I'm home I can go through the video and pick the timestamps for the inaccuracies and where my other questions are coming from. One quick one though is towards the end where you stated having triple advantage. Can you please cite the page in the Phb referencing triple advantage?
Triple advantage comes from elven accuracy which allows you to roll three rather than two dice when you have advantage. It’s colloquially called “triple advantage” on the dnd community. Again, this was explained in the video with the selection of elven accuracy. Watch more carefully please
@cmccbuilds8229 I will and I'm interested in finding the reference to elven accuracy in a book. Can you please share the book reference to help me out?
What about a thief/sorcerer instead. Then you can use innate sorcery at L1 to get advantage for 1 minute, two times per long rest for a minute. If you got one more level of sorcerer you get quicken metamagic. At 2 levels sorcerer you'll have 2 metamagic points + 3 level 1 slots which is 8 sorcery points or 4 bonus action true strikes per day. If you go one more level of sorcerer then you 3+8(4xL1 slots)+6(2xL2slots) for 8 bonus action true strikes without spending resources or having to scribe scrolls. You can get 1-2 more bonus action true strikes with the bloodwell vial (maybe a bit more if you GM will let you keep surplus points you recover). If we use treantmonk's 4 combats/day of 4 rounds each we've cut down on scrolls by half (with 3 levels), and at least 2 of those rounds will be no hassle set-up rounds with innate sorcery. The best part is burning slots for metamagic points doesn't take any action so you're in a 'superposition' of having the slots without needing to burn them until you do need it. You also don't need to be generating booming blade/greenflame blade/true strike separate scrolls and can just cast what you want when you need it. Maybe even a eldritch adept for pack of the blade so you have a melee weapon off CHA for the blade cantrips. The downside obviously is your 1d6 sneak attack behind your build. But, its far more self sufficient up until your L18 nova level basically. So games that only go to L15 at the max I think this would be a better option IMO. Maybe not vs. a one shot type build for the gauntlet.
@@cmccbuilds8229 Sorry. The pseudo being redefined baseline assumption that Chris uses on his channel to assess 2024 DND class DPR over the last 1-2 months of which I have no clue what the origin is but think is a reasonable amount of combats/duration per day?
This build seems like it takes a lot of party buy-in and gold from the DM. 15 GP and 8 hours per round of combat seems like an extremely steep cost to measure consistent damage off of unless you're in a really unique campaign. I don't think most campaigns give the players weeks of downtime and hundreds of GP at low levels of play. Even if they do, other players get the benefits of that as well, making a comparison to a baseline that gets no magic item consideration kinda pointless.
But your like….. also a rogue?…. Every time i play a rogue im robbing NPCs blind, so i feel like you can definitely afford this as a rogue… You can even rob people mid combat with the other fast hands ability….
It doesn’t work that way. You can’t take sneak attack on both your action and your bonus action because, reading from Sneak Attack, “***Once per turn***, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon.” You can get two sneak attacks per round, but one of them has to be on someone else’s turn - I.e. during your reaction.
sure the build work, I'm not arguing that, my question is how effective is it? Following the new rule in the PHB 2024: and P 233. If the scribed spell is a cantrip, the version on the scroll works as if the caster were [the scriber] level. So If your rogue level 11 scribes his own scroll, sure those scrolls will be level 11 scroll dealing an extra 2d6 radiant damage. But you need 8 hours of work to scribe a cantrip scroll, and even has an elf, you only have 4 hours per long rest, meaning it will take 2 long rest to craft 1 cantrip scroll. Sure during your downtime you could craft a few more, but eventually you if you intend to cast those scroll every round of combat, assuming 6 to 8 encounters per day (as per the DMG) with let's say on average 4 rounds of combat per encounters, that means you would need a total of 24-32 scroll per day, so eventually you will need to buy them from the general store and those one by default are crafted by caster with the lower possible level, so 1, So yes 2 or 3 times per day you could use your level 11 true strike scroll, but the other 22-30 times you will use a basic level 1 true strike scroll dealing no extra damage. The build remains pretty good, it's just 1d6/2d6/3d6 less damage to get a full extra sneak attack damage. The other rule that might affect your DPR calculation and this one is significant: P228. "if the spell requires [...]an attack roll. the spell [...] attack bonus is +5." So let's imagine a rogue 11/wizard1/fighter1 Character level 13 so proficiency bonus of +5 Intellect stat at 20 so stat bonus of +5 Using a shortbow +2 and with the archery fighting style (+2) Our rogue here normally has a +14 to hit with his bow But when using a scroll he p228 says he got +5, which is a much lower chance to hit the target Maybe the bow enchantment (+2) and the fighting style can add to it? bring it up to +9? but till much lower than +14?
@@cmccbuilds8229 Nope not messing with you. Yes I watch your video. But if you read that page 233 completely, you will notice that in order to craft a scroll for a cantrip you need 1 day of work. The rule say if you need MULTIPLE day those day do not need to be consecutive. So you need the DM approbation to cut that 8 hours of work into smaller chunk. But even if we assume that your DM allows you to work on your scribing with non consecutive hours... YOu got 24 hours in a day. AS an elf you mediate 4 hours. giving you 4 free hours. The DMG assume an adventuring day of 8 hours, leaving you with 8 hours of free time. so let's say you can scribe 1.5 scroll per day. 1,5 scroll per day you won't be able to use this tactic every round of every fight. Even if every fight last a single round when you are using this tactic, the DMG assume 6-8 encounter per adventuring day, so you should need 4-6 scroll per day to use it on most fight. (some encounter could be non combat encounter) So unless you got a lot of friend supplying you with scroll, assuming you do not want to craft any other magic item, if you want to use those 4-6 scroll per day you will need to buy some and those bought one have +5 to hit
Why would you possibly use true strike every round of every fight? And how long do you think fights are going when you DO use the double true strike combo?
@@cmccbuilds8229 did you even READ my comment? I did say assuming the fight last 1 round with your double true strike combo. And no there is no need to use this combo every rounds, but more then 1.5 time per day (and 1.5 is being very generous with the ability to scribe scroll) would be nice. Then if you limit this strategy to once per day (depending on how your DM rules about crafting scroll see below) I would probably reserve this ability for the BBEG. Against the BBEG, IF that BBEG was chosen to be appropriatly challenging to your party (not following the DMG guideline, I often have to crank my encounter to 5-6 times deadly encounter to challenge my tier 3+ players to challenge them, and at that level, your double true strike will not end the encounter in a single round. your teammate won't be able to finish the fight during that single round. Sicne the fight was design to last 3 to 5 rounds, including nova burst damage. Don't get me wrong, the build is good and powerful, but I feel like having to rely on 1- scribing your own scroll (If your DM allows for it), 2- the interpretation of your DM of the rules on page 233 "if a scroll requires multiple days, those days needn't be consecutive" to also apply to scroll that require only 1 day of work and meaning that "the hours needn't be consecutive", 3- the speed varying between 0 (if your DM rules that the 8 hours need to be consecutive) and 1.5 (if your DM is very generous and give you all the time you want) scroll per day make this combo very limited. Sure you can stack those scroll if you do not use them and have 3 of them ready when facing the BBEG 2 days laters. Make it utility too variable from table to table, since you require to be able to work using non consecutive hours when the rule allows for days to be non consecutive but do not talk about hours I also feel you could have spoken about the other cool uses for fast hand other then that once per day double true strike trick, Rope/Chain and manacle receive some great upgrade in 2024 that by using a utilise action (so great with fast hand) you can restrained a creature that that is grappled, incapacitated or restrained. So if you have a wizard who cast web you can with your bonus action tied up the target, allowing your wizard to concentrate on a different spell. OR if the barbarian grappled a target, you can restrain that target with your bonus action. Or you could take 1 monk level dip to grapple with your dex, and voila you can grapple your target with your attack and restrain him with your bonus action. Those utility being directly taking from teh book, not requiring special ruling make them a lot more reliable for every table using 2024 rules. Then finally true strike got some other ambiguous rules associated with it that especially if your build dip 1 level in wizard, could be interesting to investigate. the true strike cantrip include a weapon attack as part of the spell and that weapon attack can be converted to radiant as per the spell. Any rider that apply to the regular weapon attack also apply to the true strike attack. (so if our archery rogue using a +2 longbows, an orc bane arrow (+2d6 damage VS orc) has Hex cast on the target (an orc) and cast true strike as a rogue 11/wizard evoker 3/fighter 1 he would deal 1d8 (longbow) +5(Int)+2(bow enchantment)+2d6(orc bane)+ 6d6 (sneak attack)+ 1d6(hex)+2d6(true strike) Which part of those damage can be converted to radiant damage as per true strike? If the attack miss, evoker potent cantrip allow to still deal half the cantrip damage on a miss. What is considered as the "cantrip damage" when the cantrip include a weapon attack and all the riders? (this is true of true strike, but also true with booming blade and Green flame blade) Does it make a difference if we convert the damage to radiant?
This build is good, but you still didn't fix the fact that each scroll takes a day to scribe. Yes, you can argue a work day is 8 hours, but that doesn't automatically mean you can dedicate work 24hrs straight and make 3 scrolls, or spending extra time each day reducing the number of days to scribe higher level scrolls. But if your DM allows you to claim your character is fine living their life as a printer every moment of their life not in combat, at most you make 2.5 scrolls a day. So for every 2 ROUNDS of combat, you need a day of downtime?
5 scrolls every two days of downtime. 3 scrolls every two days of adventuring (assuming you’re actually adventuring for 8 full hours). With the new DMG it’s even easier and quicker to get scrolls. I see no issues unless you get almost no downtime for some reason. In that case, this isn’t the build for you.
@@cmccbuilds8229 I disagree with assuming a DM would allow me to make 5 scroll in 2 days (I wouldn't as a DM for sure). But even using your numbers it requires a lot of downtime. Let's say the average adventuring day you have 15 rounds of combat. For 2 days would be 30 scrolls which you say you'd produce 3 on. You'd then need 11 days downtime chained to a desk to to make the other 27. So effectively you can adventure once every 7 days or so AT BEST
@timjensen4320 1. DMs can disallow any rule they want. It brings nothing to the table to mention that a rule or mechanics can be ignored by DMs 2. As stated, you’re not casting true strike every single turn. You can, but you should be using magic items and other scrolls to good effect. 3. That timeline isn’t that bad and will only get better with the new dmg
@@cmccbuilds8229 I'll take your word on new DMG as it's not out, but I'd be surprised if it override the new PHB by much. I don't see it as ignoring a rule as much as we differ in our interpretation of what's written. The chart for crafting lists a number of DAYS it takes to craft a scroll. It also defines that you must spent 8 hours of that day crafting for it to count as a days work. The book does NOT say you can spend 16 hours in one day to get credit for two days of work. It does not say it's possible for a character to be so efficient with their time that they can spend 20 hours every single day being productive (guess someone else is feeding them, going shopping for supplies, changing their pee bucket, etc). I'm not trying to be difficult here. I'm just pointing out that while your damage numbers look great on paper, outside the white room that damage doesn't seem sustainable in almost any campaign I've ever played in.
One thing to consider is that readying true strike takes your reaction. This would make Shield and Absorb Elements less useful. Not useless just less useful. By the way, using Dissonant Whispers via scroll in a party with multiple melee might generate more damage, just not from the Rogue (who used their reaction for the casting and would not get the Opp Attack).
Readying an action doesn’t take a reaction. It takes the action. The reaction is used when you cast the spell. But yeah, your general point is a good one. Again, you’re not always using true strike off turn. Lots of flexibility with other scrolls and magic items.
@@cmccbuilds8229absolutely. You are much more precise than I was. The precision in rules like this are totally required! Thanks! And thank you for capturing my intent. *Using* the readied action would be the reaction. If you use the reaction on the start of the very next turn all the time, then you would consistently be using your reaction for True Strike. WHICH IS AWESOME! Predictable reaction attacks are the dream for rogues. My intent was to point out that using the ready action costs not only your action, but your reaction.
No question that this works per RAW. But… it just shouldn’t. The idea that you gotta do this weird action economy hack for mega damage just screams “exploit” to me. I mind it less with Haste (because it’s a resource, there’s a risk factor, etc) than here. I’m coming around to the view that sneak attack dice should have been doubled and sneak attack limited to 1/round.
I agree RAW this certainly works but was this intended? I would say no personally and I wouldn't allow this at my table nor would I subject another DM to these kind of shenanigans. Don't get me wrong it's fun to theory craft about and explore the possibilities but I think builds with these kinds of exploits contribute to the bad rep that min/maxers get. But as always with D&D to each their own.
Reposting this comment from last vid for visibility since it wasn’t addressed in the video: I don’t know if any DM would call you on this, but RAW you can’t use a spell scroll to cast True Strike. The issue is that the scroll casts the spell without material components (not optional) and the text of the spell checks for the material component you used. There’s an argument that you can use the same weapon while scribing a scroll to pair the scroll with the weapon, but RAW the scroll is very explicit that that you don’t use material components.
@@grendl74Hello, while I appreciate the directness of your reply, I would appreciate any evidence you may have to my being wrong. I would love to be proven wrong since this is a very cool combo, but everything I see points to scrolls of True Strike being unusable. Please tell me if you have any info that contradicts this. Thanks so much!
@queenofweirdness101 you have been given not one but two videos explaining why you're wrong. It's not my job to teach you to understand reading comprehension and I'm not going to assigned work by you.
@@grendl74 I mean he seems to raise an interesting question, how exactly is he wrong? The video doesn't mention material components, only the rules regarding bonus action use of scrolls (which I don't see a problem with). True Strike specifies "you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell's casting", if a spell scroll removes the material component (weapon) from the casting, how can you even cast this spell in scroll form?
How disappointing, you ignore the part of Magic Action that calls out magic items vs spells... oh well, I can run with that ruling. You don't need a Wizard dip to cast true strike as a bonus action, because according to the logic shown at the six minute mark, you can use a magic item (Ruby of the War Mage) to take the Magic Action (cast a spell) to cast true strike as a bonus action using fast hands. With my optimization you can now spend your gold on your Bastion instead of on spell scrolls. It also highly amuses me that Fast Hands never requires you to use your hands at all, so long as you take the magic action and a magic item is involved. I also have something to look forward to, as Fast Hands can also use Class features as bonus actions. Using the magic item Amulet of the Devout you can take the magic action to use Channel Divinity as a bonus action. No idea on where that line of thought goes, but it sounds like it could be fun exploring that path for all classes.
@grendl74 so you think you cannot use a magic item (Spell Scroll) to take the magic action (Cast a spell) to cast true strike as a bonus action? Odd take, but ok.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
So one tiny thing, blade ward is concentration meaning you can’t have it up when doing double sneak attack, since to ready the magic action to do an off turn true strike, you have to concentrate on true strike until your defined trigger comes up and you fire off your glowing light arrow 😊
Good point!
Yup. Use blade ward in those “I’m gonna die soon” situations and just main action attack/true strike for sneak attack.
Yep.
@@cmccbuilds8229 Orrrr...two sneak attacks and die a hero :D
I kid, I kid.
Lol
I am living for this build right now and sorry if I added too many scovilles to the last vid’s comments 😂
Lol
This is actually one of my favorite builds.
True Strike Thief has a semi-auto laser rifle that does radiant damage
I am looking forward to this so much.
A compelling build. Compels me to comment. Great stuff!
Lol
I've been tacking theives onto Clerics, Soradins, Sorcereers and wizards, It's such great dip!.
I want to point out that if your dm allows an illusionist bracers by taking ready truestrike. Per the rules of the ready action, you cast the spell as normal holding the release of the spell. This means it triggers the bracers allowing you to bonus action cast the cantrip.
So you would hold your Action to expend your Bonus action and Reaction to cast True strike with a magic item?
@LoreFoundry you would get double sneak attack. So it would be 2(3d6+1d8+8d6+5) roughly
I totally thought that I was subscribed already until I just now checked. I'm even in the discord, apparently just never actually hit the button. Excited to now (actually) be subscribed!
Thank you!
The preview of the new DMG had a big focus on flushing out the magic item crafting system which is only going to make this build skyrocket in power and versatility!
Yeah I wish I knew that BEFORE I made the video lol
I'm still laughing about the dude who was CONVINCED you couldn't use a scroll as a Bonus action with a Thief.
Apparently this is a thing going around right now. I’m doing my part to eliminate that idea though.
Probably they are confusing it with 2014 thief that did not have the magic action option
@awesomecow7264 I had the actual text on screen though.
@@cmccbuilds8229doesn't truestrike have the same material component wording as booming blade and green flame blade? Someone in the last vid's comments mentioned how, RAW, you can't make spell scrolls from spells that have a specific cost for their material components, in this case the weapon worth at least 1gp.
It does say that you need to provide any material components used for the casting when scribing the scroll, so idk how you'd do that unless you just buy and keep a ton of the same kind of weapon you're using on hand.
I think the main argument going around is that scrolls don't explicitly say they use the magic action to activate, rather you can cast a spell from a scroll using the same casting time from the spell inscribed therein. This is different from using a magic action to activate an item. It's dumb.
Edit: there is probably a belief that "scrolls" are just an item that allow you to cast a spell but don't require a magic action themselves. I believe that the intention for scrolls is to have an action requirement for the scroll itself that is identical to the casting time of the spell, which would make each scroll unique (sort of). Might be reading too much into this though.
The new Thief is so good it blows every other Rogue out of the water.
The value of the Thief is very dependent upon your DM and your campaign. It can be amazing.
Building a true strike thief right now for a Ghost of Saltmarsh game. I took a bit of a different path since my PC will be the "first mate" which will be charisma heavy. I went human and took Magic Initiate (Wizard). One of the cool things is that you pick your spell list and spells, then you pick your casting stat, but it's two separate choices. So I sniped True Strike (also Message so I can communicate silently while taking advantage of my climb speed) but I cast it with Charisma.
Now there's a RAW/RAI discussion around whether this means I can scribe scrolls with the calligropher tool since these spells were sniped from the wizard list and aren't on the rogue's list. But Crawford had errata'd scrolls from 2014, stating that Eldritch Knights and Arcane Tricksters are considered to have the wizard's spell list for purposes of scrolls. So we'll need to see if that also holds true for Magic Initiate. My guess is no, and that's how I'm playing it.
But it's not a big deal because TS scrolls are only 30 GP. And even if there's an argument that the scroll wouldn't use my 16-18 charisma, that's fine because the cantrip scrolls also rule that it has a +5 to attack. 30 GP per scrolls is fine even in a lower money game, because I don't want to be doing it every round anyway. It's such a huge departure from every other class's damage curve that I don't want to be "that guy". I'm limiting it to once a battle, maybe twice a long rest. Same reason I told my DM she'd be a fool to hand out a wand of fireball, because no one else is going to be able to keep up if I'm fire balling twice in a round.
You can scribe spells if you have them prepared and you are proficient in arcana or calligrapher tools (so magic initiate works). But you need the dip in wizard to cast the scroll, since as Thief you don't have a spell list. Unless you start at lvl 13, then you can cast the scrolls with your lvl 13 subclass feature.
@luciajulio Fair enough, I'll point that out to my DM. We've got a grappling monk in our group, so I think I can still semi-reliably get off reaction true strikes with sentinel and war caster by level 8.
Wow I am making one of these
Your artwork is awesome
I had figured out the Thief True Strike build myself after watching Treamtmonk's video. He went with Assassin but Thief is way better in my opinion. I would probably go with Wood Elf for that ranger feel. Longstrider and Pass without Trace are much better than Detect Magic and Misty Step if you ask me.
Your video really took this idea to the next level though!
Good taste in background music at the start 😉
@oldmanmcloyf thank you? Why the wink?
@@cmccbuilds8229 I use it in all my videos, fan of that music lol
It’s generally my intro music over the last couple of years.
@@cmccbuilds8229 Great choice, the artist has so many good tracks that sound like classic RPGs, perfect for D&D vids.
Thanks Mike.
For ranged weapons I think you need to use hand crossbow instead of shortbow, since that requires two hands to attack and if your casting True Strike from a scroll to make the attack then you need a hand free for the scroll.
Where does it say you need a hand free to cast a scroll?
@@cmccbuilds8229 It says you need to read the scroll, how are you reading the scroll without having the scroll out? See this is where theorycrafting meets actual playing, but have fun convincing a DM that you can read something that you can't see.
That's easy enough...
My character wrote the scroll, knows exactly what words they wrote. In fact, they have written the same scroll, tens if not hundreds of times. So they read the scroll from their memory... and that then discharges the scroll in your backpack or pocket etc.
I guess it just comes down to your interpretation of 'reading a scroll' is HOLDING and LOOKING at a scroll whereas that is nowhere in the rules.
As a DM I would allow it, especially for scrolls that the player's character themselves had written and used over and over and over.
@@ancientgammoner6961 not RAW, so no. You are interpreting.
@@Sweet_Zombie_Cheezuz It says read the scroll, not recite the scroll. You are correct that it does not spell out that you must be using at least one hand to hold the scroll open so that you can read it, however I think that is a much more reasonable interpretation than you can just do it. Also logically using a feature called "Fast Hands" that lets you "Use and Object" would also make me think of something you would reasonably have to hold. If a DM lets you do otherwise, that is their interpretation, but saying that the other interpretation is strictly wrong I have a problem with.
You can do take a different background skill in the D&D Beyond Character Builder if you already have it from your class, but that just leftover bug from 2014 rules, in the 2024 rules you don't choose your skill proficiencies from your class until after you have chosen background. You can break the 2024 rules in other ways when you use the Character Builder, like putting the +2 and +1 Ability Scores adjustment from your background in the same Ability.
Where does it say in the phb that you must take origin before class? I know it’s recommended, but didn’t see that it was mandatory. Post page number please.
@@cmccbuilds8229 Chapter 2: Creating a Character describes how you make a Character and that description you choose your class at step 1 but have to wait with some of the details (like skill proficiencies), you pick your origin at step 2 and you don't pick your skill proficiencies from class until step 5.
I only have the electronic version and they didn't give it page numbers, sorry.
@sortehuse I’m aware of that. This seems like a suggested route not a mandatory part of character creation. All level 1 stuff happens at the “same” time as far as I’m aware. Origin doesn’t happen before class. And if there is duplication in skills, you choose a new skill.
If I’m wrong - do what i said in the video and take the custom background (it’s better anyway)
@@cmccbuilds8229 The rule about if there's duplication in skills, you choose a new skill was a rule from the 2014 PHB. There is no need for that rules in the 2024 rules because you choose your background before your skill proficiencies from your class. Many DM would probably allow anyway.
How can you sneak attack twice when the PHB says you can only sneak attack once per turn? I can see two attacks, one with each hand but there can be only one sneak attack
We’re only sneak attacking once per turn here. You may be confusing the term “turn” with “round”.
@cmccbuilds8229 you were pretty clear that it's two sneak attacks per turn. One with a bonus action, one with the action. That's incorrect based on the PHB. However, at level 17, you can use sneak attack twice in round one, because you get two turns.
Do you know what readying an action for an off turn attack means?
This is very interesting I like it a unique play style and gives you almost a mini task to complete when adventuring about! but I did have a question I might have missed it but what was the persuasion proficiency for?
He took proficiency in persuasion so it would override the persuasion proficiency in the merchant background, allowing you to choose another skill as part of your background so you can select Arcana 😊
@@barberboy7 oh nice! I see now thank you!
Im so exited about the 2024 artificer!
Would a build around the armorer infiltrator and the rogue thief work if we try to utilize sentinel feat and the battlemaster riposte/brace maneuvers for double sneak damage?
4 attacks per round without extra extra attack and with a shield and also double trustrike
maybe start dwarf with tough feat for tamkyness but iI think woodelf with lucky is a better option for Damage and partysneakyness at lvl 5
artificer infiltrator could get Plate armor, shield +1 and the shiledspell ready at lvl 3 !and also do the sneaking/scouting with heavy armor!
rapier (vex) and shield (maybe lightnig launcher (+1d6 once per turn) with sharpshooter?)
at lvl 4 sentinel
at lvl 5 extra attack
then rogue thief at lvl 8 for utilize magic item and use true strike two times per turn (artificer could craft scrolls with truestrike) with sneak attack
as race elf would be nice to have longer crafting times and get elven accuracy at lvl 9 (rougue 4) Using Fearyfire etc. for concentration could get reliable advantage tu use triple advantage.
building battlemaster for riposte/brace maneuvers in to maximise the tank (taunt) and damagepotential (2x sneakattack per round)
maybe from there on rougue the rest for more sneak attack damage and evasion (for tank purpuses) also 4 attunements!
or
artificer the rest for more attunements than 4 and more spells
or
wizard evoker for potent catrip and never missing a trustrike
I would really apreaciate your professional opinion or community opinion on this build. Are there any suggestions to optimize?
would it be better to go with dexterity or intelligence as mainstat?
I love this build but have one question.... would it not be better for the mid tier play to get 3 levels of wizard and take the illusionist (or Diviner) subclass? it would make the level 20 split 17/3 but I don't think it would make your DPR drop too much. Just curious about your thoughts on this.
nevermind. I just thought about it and that would delay your level 17 2 turns on round 1 ability. I guess just a 1 level dip is best
Yeah you don’t want to delay your rogue levels too much
Just for consideration, taking wizard to 3 means you get evoker cantrips, so you deal half damage regardless. Means you effectively don't miss. I'm sure you also considered warcaster on this build too.
I did something like this for a level 20 One shot. I went with thief 16/Diviner 4.
I had decent access to magic items, so I grabbed 2 Decks of the Oracles and a scroll of Simulacrum. Effectively 6 Portent dice, all of which rolled under a 10, so I saved them all for making enemies fail saves.
I also went with Tiefling and took the Boon of Dimensional Travel for Nightcrawler shenanigans… still pretty similar.
Thief 16??? Oof that hurts.
@@cmccbuilds8229 I know! But DM let me double up on Epic Boons. The Auto Hit Combat Prowess is nutz and Dimensional travel when you take all of your actions and bonus actions as Attacks or Magic Actions…. I never got stuck in melee!
Ahhh you skipped lv 17 Rogue! That extra feat ain't worth it!!!
I disagree! 22 Int, never miss, never get stuck in melee, while still getting 2x Sneak attack reliably. Why wouldn’t I want that? The double turn is great, no joke, but it means less when the combat goes on for longer. Without the two Boons I would have done half as much damage from rolling terribly and taken way more damage from the enemies due the nature of the cage match we found ourselves in for the final battle. The attacks could never target me and only targeted our Monk, who was the Prince of All Saiyans
Missing level 17 rogue is a huge mistake unless you’re taking the 4 levels super early and never plan to hit tier 4
Paladin: Let us ride forth and save the village from certain doom:
Rogue: Sounds good. I’ll be ready in month when I finish my trustrike scrolls.
Seriously though, cool build.
So on the D&D app, it seems like elven accuracy is only available for the 2014 elf not the 2024 elf so you wont get stuff like detect magic and misty step (which Im okay with) I dont know if thats on purpose.
It was available in the legacy fear section for me. Maybe they changed it
This build comes online L4 so perfect for a L1-L4/5 starter adventure. Complete it then ask your DM how much downtime there will be between campaigns (craft scrolls) ready for the next one.
honestly from my experience the only reason a group doesn't get downtime is because they rarely ask for it.
@@johngeralt I feel like 5.5 is going to be a new golden age of bastion led downtime.
I dread the day they come out with an elven accuracy revision.
Because you like this version so much?
This build is super cool and now I want to play it, but does it work with the 2014 rules?
Read 2014 true strike
Sounds amazing, BUT: How long does it take to craft a cantrip spell scroll? Even ignoring the cost, typically, we assume 4 fights with 4 rounds each and 1 short rest per long rest. So thats 16 required scrolls per day pre lv 17(18) and 5 hours downtime per day without making other players wait in ingame time. I actually don't know how long it takes to scribe 16 scrolls but I would assume this cannot be sustainable without help of others, days of downtime or an agreement to chill a while each morning.
How does item interaction work in 2024? Sounds like a lot of interactions. But I’m only familiar with 2014
How much GP does it cost to make a level 0 Spellscroll? How much gold do y'all's DMs usually give out?
Would this be any better than a war cleric rogue? High elf same build take true strike and use WIS over int? Then you don’t even need to scribe scrolls, and just reverse the attack order.
BA attack with war cleric, hold action to true strike. No scroll necessary. Does need 3 in cleric tho. You’d probably still want one wizard too for the spell list. But still, seems more table efficient without the need of scrolls. Maybe arcane trickster could help with scrolls.
3 in cleric is rough here and it’s limited and it’s an attack vs true strike casting and you need to progress dex and casting stat pretty closely (more closely than I did)
@@cmccbuilds8229Ahhhh you’re so right. It’s not true strike 2x a round. True true ty
What about interaction economy and hands economy? Do you need to hold weapon (ranged I suppose) AND scroll in you hands? You can use one-handed cross bow to prevent this problem. But you need to draw two scrolls in one turn. If you start turn with scroll #1 you can interract and draw scroll #2. But at 17th lvl when yoy do two turns in first round you wouldn't have enough interaction actions. Maybe I miss something. I'm still don't have my copy of the book, nor fluent knowledge in English 😅
You don’t need to draw two scrolls in one turn. Your character knows the True Strike cantrip and can cast it as normal using their held action.
The bonus action casting is the only one that the the character needs a scroll for.
@@MrSlutzkin yeah, you are right. I've had some kind tunnel vision. But what about hands economy? Is it still the case? Or maybe I miss somthing else.. Is it must have do use one handed crossbow?
@@cherry_buzzsaw Copied from my answer on this elsewhere in the comments.
That's easy enough...
My character wrote the scroll, knows exactly what words they wrote. In fact, they have written the same scroll, tens if not hundreds of times. So they read the scroll from their memory... and that then discharges the scroll in your backpack or pocket etc.
The act of reading a scroll doesn't have to mean holding and looking at it. It's not written in the rules that you have to hold the scroll to cast it.
As a DM I would allow it, especially for scrolls that the player's character themselves had written and used over and over and over.
@@Sweet_Zombie_Cheezuz that's interesting one. It could be a nice from flavour perspective. If this allowed, you could make energy cells instead of crafting scrolls. Or maybe magic beads, like chronourgist wizard do. Something like spellslots but in physical item. Good good
@@cherry_buzzsaw Exactly! How about flavouring the scroll as a glowing inscription on your weapon and as you strike it discharges. 😁👍
For true strike I don’t think you have to worry about the attack and damage mods the scroll provides, as true strike isn’t a spell attack but a modification to the attack your making with the weapon that’s the material component of the spell. Regardless, you’d still definitely wanna scribe the scrolls for the cantrip scaling to the damage dice.
This is incorrect.
Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).
Cantrip Upgrade. Whether you deal Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type, the attack deals extra Radiant damage when you reach levels 5 (1d6), 11 (2d6), and 17 (3d6).
So it directly states it uses your spell attack, so you really do care about the modifier as it uses your spellcasting ability (or in this case the scrolls) for attack and damage
@@cerberus003 So, it says it uses YOUR "spellcasting ability", so specifically NOT the spell attack modifier offered by the scroll. Since you are 1 Wizard, that would be your INT + your Proficiency to attack and damage rolls for the attack. That's my take, anyways :)
Yes that’s our point. Some people thought it used a default scroll value. It doesn’t (if you scribe it)
I probably missed something, but is the one level dip of wizard necessary or more for utility? What’s preventing you from scribing the True Strike achieved from your elf species?
You can scribe all you want. You cannot cast unless the spell is on your spell list. An elf doesn’t have a spell list.
@@cmccbuilds8229 You could do it once you get the level 13 feature so if its a high level one shot you could do that instead of the dip
Yup. Totally
If you want to stick with dex int backgrounds in the new phb go scribe. Skilled gets you more magic crafting (make your own wands and magic items to use as bonus actions instead of relying on the dm) depending on what skills you take. Woodcarver gets staffs and wands and there’s a ton of good options that take advantage of only 1 level in wizard.
Since it costs 15 gold every turn you try to do this combo maybe make an enspelled bow for 400gp to get 3-6 of those true strikes per turn for the earlier levels. If you get 30 uses out of it before you reach the middle levels, can’t imagine you won’t, it will pay for itself.
Hell make two and some scrolls for backup if you’re worried about the charges running out.
Could also pick Shadar-kai and be able to select whichever tool proficiency you want after each long rest. Shadar-kai + Arcana lets you craft anything that doesn't cast a spell.
@ I think mixing the older and newer content isn’t super fair but if you do the shader Kai is kinda the best crafter in that case.
Can you please cite the rule that you say allows an elf wizard to swap cantrips every long rest?
Pg 168 of the phb (I’m not sure why you’re saying “elf wizard”. It’s not unique to elves. Unless you’re asking about the high elf’s racial traits?
Did you read the book?
@@cmccbuilds8229 Sorry, I didn't realise that this was a recent video.
I;ve also now seen the same in dndbeyond, my bad. 😅
11:51 I don’t see any wording that Thief’s Reflexes would reset your reaction. You’re taking a second turn in the same round at a lower initiative. Your reaction wouldn’t refresh until the top of the next round.
Go ahead and reread the reaction and let me know where it says “next round”
@@cmccbuilds8229 I’m saying that it doesn’t. Your second turn is in the same round. And you only get one reaction in a round, therefore only one chance to trigger a Readied action.
@sardonicpoet this is incorrect. I’ll save you the trouble.
“When you take a Reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your next turn”
How many turns do you get in round 1?
I mean, it costs you 15 gold and one day crafting for each bonus action attack, thats not the best deal unless your DM just showers you with gold and downtime... I mean, if we go with 4 encounters per day, each encounter taking about 4 turns on average, you would need 16 spell slots per adventure day. Thats for one 240 gold per day spend, plus you need 16 days to prepare for the one adventure day, since crafting a scroll takes 8 hours.
How many hours are in a day? How many hours do elves need for a long rest? Try that math again.
@@cmccbuilds8229 The PHB clearly states that a workday gives you 8 hours. They didnt measure in hours for crafting but workdays. But even if we ignore that and say your Elf can craft 24/7 when not sleeping, youll still need over a week to just prepare for one day.
@@Raoul97534 encounters in a day sounds crazy to me but you also realize that true striking every turn is not always the most efficient thing to do right?…
And you also don’t actually need to use true strike scrolls for this, you can also use an off hand weapon so that you aren’t always burning a true strike scroll.
First thing I would do is head down to my local Wizardry community college and get me a true strike intern.
@BrianLasater lol
Direct question for you all: Do you think it would be RAW for a Wood Elf to scribe scrolls of Longstrider or Pass Without Trace if you don't dip in Wizard?
My own version of this build does not dip and takes Fey Touched: Bless for that juicy team buff that never goes out of style! Imagine BA casting Bless in the first round!
You can scribe but not cast
There is only one thing you need to talk to your DM about, which should ALWAYS be mentioned in such videos. True STrike requires a material component that is a weapon. Scrolls provide components when created. Does the DM approve that the weapon is provided as a component for the scroll, even though the weapon is clearly the one you are attacking with ( you are attacking with the material component, essentially). I would personally allow it, go ahead and hit them with the scroll ln the head, or maybe a spectral blade manifests for that attack only, idk, but there can easily be many DMs that will tell you "nope" so don't ASSUME that your DM will be ok. NEVER assume what others will conclude, especially when it is tricky like this!
Heck yeah
So you are going to spend 15gp every round of combat?
You got a better way to spend your gold?
@@cmccbuilds8229 That’s fair, but certain DMs might make this cost/time prohibitive. I also think you could do this with a Warlock if you preferred to use Charisma.
@kylesutliff8258 certain DMs will do lots of crazy stuff. Work your build out with your dm and make sure they’re not going to dick you over. That should go without saying
And 8 hours of crafting time per round lmao
The thing is, you really don't need to use it very often in order to get ahead of 'typical' Rogues and shorten combats. Also, there are tons of magic items that are really good with Fast Hands (including ones that are quite reusable, like Pipes of Haunting and such), not just scrolls.
Also, scrolls just aren't very expensive in 2024. To put it into perspective, if you can purchase scrolls (they're in the default equipment list now), simply the money saved from not buying plate armor is enough for 50-100 scrolls, which is enough to carry you for a long time -- during which time you'll be building up more resources to use.
interact with object would allow a character with a free hand to draw a scroll but without a possibility to stow the use scroll, with result that the character would leave a paper trail.
I don't see an explaination on how more than one scroll can be drawn out every round.
Scrolls crumble in to dust on use not much left to stow.
Awesome. Now figure out Arcane Trickster.
Yes please.
Did you use dndbeyond for the character build? They don't have merchant as a choice in the drop down menu.
Did you buy the phb?
@cmccbuilds8229 Ah, you'll have to buy it to open up the features :/ guess the subscription doesn't do that much
Sorry, I’m not tracking. How does he get 2 “turns” per round?
It’s on the screen and I talk about it. The thief’s level 17 ability
Gotcha. Missed that ability!! Thx
It seems to me aginst RAI to take a skill not allowed by class, race of background,
What interpretation of RAW do you use to attempt to justify this?
I think that Arcana skill would require a background like haunted one
The 2014 rules on duplication of skills (and the functionality in Dndbeyond)
@@cmccbuilds8229 It seems really odd. The Merchant background can suddenly become a mystic route to arcane mystery, just because a character's rogue training schooled them in persuasion. That's just stupid.
They've got the cart before the horse. I wonder what parts or developer's history he or she would like to rewrite. 🤣
Surely someone would normally have a background, and add to that.
As it is a player is saying I'll choose more of the same, so the game saysn no you must have even more variety. That's bonkers.
@gregkaye5583 just use a custom background
Nice Treatmonk reference
what reference?
Around 12:45
@mussante oh the baseline. Yeah
The only problem with this build is a campaign setting with low-magic and/or low wealth. Scribing scrolls requires special inks, and even if there are people making the ink, if the party is not finding tons of gold, your pocket book will be filled with nothing but moths.
All that being said, if coin and ink are plentiful enough, thief would be the strongest rogue subclass for sure. No conditionals to get that good damage other than the cost of the scrolls themselves.
Yeah I say that in the vid. Why are you picking this build if you can’t spare 15 gp per scroll or you’re not getting magic items from the DM?
Your fellow adventurers should give you money to scribe too since you’re so damn powerful :)
Ive commented this before, as have some others in this video and the last one related to this build, but I still believe there is one huge issue with casting truestrike through a spell scroll.
Per the rules of casting and scribing spell scrolls, you need to use any material cost associated with the spell when you are scribing the spell, and you do not use any other material components when using the scroll itself.
Truestrike has a specific material cost, a weapon worth 1 gp. It would become DM dependant on whether or not you could just use the same weapon you had on you when scriving the scroll, but its not a guarantee that you CAN do this at all RAW.
Youd think this would be touched on, but it seems like I can't even find the older comments. Some clarification on this would be great considering it is the main interaction of the build.
It does not say material cost, rather components. Arguably components can be reused.
Treantmonk's 2024 baseline is now pact of the blade warlock. Eldritch blast warlock was too low.
Yup and he changed his “combats per day and rests” to the exact same as mine from 2021.
Parallel tracks.
I probably won’t do my own baseline at this point.
Why wouldn't you take Night Spirit epic boon with this build to further help with maintaining advantage and for incredible survivability? Truesight isn't super necessary in most cases, and can be achieved through a scroll or a magic item anyway.
Obviously if you have true sight through a magic item, you’d take a different boon
@@cmccbuilds8229 my point is that it's still a less useful epic boon to take than Night Spirit in 90% of cases, even before you consider that true sight can be acquired in several other ways. It's even more important because you can't be running Blade Ward with this tech due to it requiring concentration.
Epic Boon of Speed also a strong contender for when your rogue doesn't need damage boosts.
@danrosenthal9231 a strong defensive choice no doubt
I guess my confusion comes from the 13 Thief ability. I dont understand why they meed to include a paragraph for spell scrolls specifically if they already have the ability to use the magic action at third lv.
"Scrolls. You can use any Spell Scroll, using Intelligence as your spellcasting ability for the spell. "
Ya i just dont get why they have that lv 13 bit.
because without a spell list, they weren't able to use scrolls at level 3 hence the Wizard dip. level 13 features allows the Thief a subclass without a spell list to use scrolls, if they pass arcana check.
A comment for support
You only get to make 1 sneak attack per turn, so the double sneak attack doesn't work.
Where do I claim you get more than 1 sneak attack per turn?
Doesn't it take 8 hours to craft a cantrip scroll though? You only get 4 hours of elf sleep advantage a day. I find that would limit this builds effectiveness.
Campaigns are generally not just 1 day long
@@cmccbuilds8229 For each day of inscription you must work for 8 hours. I do agree that over time you could build up a supply, but if you're burning through a few every combat, it's limiting. I sincerely like this build, it's a creative use I hadn't considered. Thank you for sharing this.
My point is that you can find those 8 hrs throughout the day or even another day if needed. A long rest alone eliminates half the time. You’re not necessarily adventuring for 16 hrs each day.
Find the other 4 hours or worst case wait a day.
@StudioJLT My man. In a world where Bastion turns exist, we have the time.
@@apjapki You've got something here! Bastions can craft now, I believe, so just set up a shop of 100 old ass monks copying scrolls all day. problem solved!
I want to like this video, but it needs to be corrected. 1. You can't use sneak attack more than once per turn (until level 17). 2. What is triple advantage? 3. How are you calculating your % chance to hit? What AC are you targeting? 4. Your damage per attack seems high, if that's your calculated average. How did you arrive at that number? 5. You made it seem like you can craft a scroll during your long rest. But crafting a cantrip scroll takes 8 hours, you need to be in a trance for 4 of them.
All of this is addressed in the video
@cmccbuilds8229 Well, later when I'm home I can go through the video and pick the timestamps for the inaccuracies and where my other questions are coming from. One quick one though is towards the end where you stated having triple advantage. Can you please cite the page in the Phb referencing triple advantage?
Triple advantage comes from elven accuracy which allows you to roll three rather than two dice when you have advantage. It’s colloquially called “triple advantage” on the dnd community.
Again, this was explained in the video with the selection of elven accuracy. Watch more carefully please
@cmccbuilds8229 I will and I'm interested in finding the reference to elven accuracy in a book. Can you please share the book reference to help me out?
It’s a feat from Xanathar’s
What about a thief/sorcerer instead. Then you can use innate sorcery at L1 to get advantage for 1 minute, two times per long rest for a minute. If you got one more level of sorcerer you get quicken metamagic. At 2 levels sorcerer you'll have 2 metamagic points + 3 level 1 slots which is 8 sorcery points or 4 bonus action true strikes per day. If you go one more level of sorcerer then you 3+8(4xL1 slots)+6(2xL2slots) for 8 bonus action true strikes without spending resources or having to scribe scrolls. You can get 1-2 more bonus action true strikes with the bloodwell vial (maybe a bit more if you GM will let you keep surplus points you recover).
If we use treantmonk's 4 combats/day of 4 rounds each we've cut down on scrolls by half (with 3 levels), and at least 2 of those rounds will be no hassle set-up rounds with innate sorcery. The best part is burning slots for metamagic points doesn't take any action so you're in a 'superposition' of having the slots without needing to burn them until you do need it. You also don't need to be generating booming blade/greenflame blade/true strike separate scrolls and can just cast what you want when you need it. Maybe even a eldritch adept for pack of the blade so you have a melee weapon off CHA for the blade cantrips.
The downside obviously is your 1d6 sneak attack behind your build. But, its far more self sufficient up until your L18 nova level basically. So games that only go to L15 at the max I think this would be a better option IMO. Maybe not vs. a one shot type build for the gauntlet.
“Treantmonk’s 4 combats/day of 4 rounds each”
ಠ_ಠ
@@cmccbuilds8229 Sorry. The pseudo being redefined baseline assumption that Chris uses on his channel to assess 2024 DND class DPR over the last 1-2 months of which I have no clue what the origin is but think is a reasonable amount of combats/duration per day?
Sorry, but i think it's only 1 sneak attack per turn.... even when you have multiple attacks... except at level 17 with 2 turns...
Correct. The build doesn’t do more than 1 sneak attack per turn
This build seems like it takes a lot of party buy-in and gold from the DM. 15 GP and 8 hours per round of combat seems like an extremely steep cost to measure consistent damage off of unless you're in a really unique campaign. I don't think most campaigns give the players weeks of downtime and hundreds of GP at low levels of play. Even if they do, other players get the benefits of that as well, making a comparison to a baseline that gets no magic item consideration kinda pointless.
But your like….. also a rogue?….
Every time i play a rogue im robbing NPCs blind, so i feel like you can definitely afford this as a rogue…
You can even rob people mid combat with the other fast hands ability….
It doesn’t work that way.
You can’t take sneak attack on both your action and your bonus action because, reading from Sneak Attack, “***Once per turn***, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack roll if you have Advantage on the roll and the attack uses a Finesse or a Ranged weapon.”
You can get two sneak attacks per round, but one of them has to be on someone else’s turn - I.e. during your reaction.
Oh yeah? You don’t say!
DnD beyond doesn’t actually let you pick Elven Accuracy with the new Elf, it doesn’t for me at least
I had the same issue. I can’t remember exactly how I resolved. I think I force applied the feat
@@cmccbuilds8229 I figured it out, thanks!
sure the build work, I'm not arguing that, my question is how effective is it?
Following the new rule in the PHB 2024:
and P 233. If the scribed spell is a cantrip, the version on the scroll works as if the caster were [the scriber] level.
So If your rogue level 11 scribes his own scroll, sure those scrolls will be level 11 scroll dealing an extra 2d6 radiant damage.
But you need 8 hours of work to scribe a cantrip scroll, and even has an elf, you only have 4 hours per long rest, meaning it will take 2 long rest to craft 1 cantrip scroll. Sure during your downtime you could craft a few more, but eventually you if you intend to cast those scroll every round of combat, assuming 6 to 8 encounters per day (as per the DMG) with let's say on average 4 rounds of combat per encounters, that means you would need a total of 24-32 scroll per day, so eventually you will need to buy them from the general store and those one by default are crafted by caster with the lower possible level, so 1,
So yes 2 or 3 times per day you could use your level 11 true strike scroll, but the other 22-30 times you will use a basic level 1 true strike scroll dealing no extra damage.
The build remains pretty good, it's just 1d6/2d6/3d6 less damage to get a full extra sneak attack damage.
The other rule that might affect your DPR calculation and this one is significant:
P228. "if the spell requires [...]an attack roll. the spell [...] attack bonus is +5."
So let's imagine a rogue 11/wizard1/fighter1
Character level 13 so proficiency bonus of +5
Intellect stat at 20 so stat bonus of +5
Using a shortbow +2
and with the archery fighting style (+2)
Our rogue here normally has a +14 to hit with his bow
But when using a scroll he p228 says he got +5, which is a much lower chance to hit the target
Maybe the bow enchantment (+2) and the fighting style can add to it? bring it up to +9? but till much lower than +14?
Are you messing with me?
Did you watch the video?
@@cmccbuilds8229 Nope not messing with you. Yes I watch your video.
But if you read that page 233 completely, you will notice that in order to craft a scroll for a cantrip you need 1 day of work.
The rule say if you need MULTIPLE day those day do not need to be consecutive. So you need the DM approbation to cut that 8 hours of work into smaller chunk.
But even if we assume that your DM allows you to work on your scribing with non consecutive hours...
YOu got 24 hours in a day. AS an elf you mediate 4 hours. giving you 4 free hours. The DMG assume an adventuring day of 8 hours, leaving you with 8 hours of free time. so let's say you can scribe 1.5 scroll per day.
1,5 scroll per day you won't be able to use this tactic every round of every fight. Even if every fight last a single round when you are using this tactic, the DMG assume 6-8 encounter per adventuring day, so you should need 4-6 scroll per day to use it on most fight. (some encounter could be non combat encounter)
So unless you got a lot of friend supplying you with scroll, assuming you do not want to craft any other magic item, if you want to use those 4-6 scroll per day you will need to buy some and those bought one have +5 to hit
Why would you possibly use true strike every round of every fight? And how long do you think fights are going when you DO use the double true strike combo?
@@cmccbuilds8229 did you even READ my comment? I did say assuming the fight last 1 round with your double true strike combo.
And no there is no need to use this combo every rounds, but more then 1.5 time per day (and 1.5 is being very generous with the ability to scribe scroll) would be nice.
Then if you limit this strategy to once per day (depending on how your DM rules about crafting scroll see below) I would probably reserve this ability for the BBEG. Against the BBEG, IF that BBEG was chosen to be appropriatly challenging to your party (not following the DMG guideline, I often have to crank my encounter to 5-6 times deadly encounter to challenge my tier 3+ players to challenge them, and at that level, your double true strike will not end the encounter in a single round. your teammate won't be able to finish the fight during that single round. Sicne the fight was design to last 3 to 5 rounds, including nova burst damage.
Don't get me wrong, the build is good and powerful, but I feel like having to rely on
1- scribing your own scroll (If your DM allows for it),
2- the interpretation of your DM of the rules on page 233 "if a scroll requires multiple days, those days needn't be consecutive" to also apply to scroll that require only 1 day of work and meaning that "the hours needn't be consecutive",
3- the speed varying between 0 (if your DM rules that the 8 hours need to be consecutive) and 1.5 (if your DM is very generous and give you all the time you want) scroll per day make this combo very limited. Sure you can stack those scroll if you do not use them and have 3 of them ready when facing the BBEG 2 days laters.
Make it utility too variable from table to table, since you require to be able to work using non consecutive hours when the rule allows for days to be non consecutive but do not talk about hours
I also feel you could have spoken about the other cool uses for fast hand other then that once per day double true strike trick,
Rope/Chain and manacle receive some great upgrade in 2024 that by using a utilise action (so great with fast hand) you can restrained a creature that that is grappled, incapacitated or restrained. So if you have a wizard who cast web you can with your bonus action tied up the target, allowing your wizard to concentrate on a different spell. OR if the barbarian grappled a target, you can restrain that target with your bonus action. Or you could take 1 monk level dip to grapple with your dex, and voila you can grapple your target with your attack and restrain him with your bonus action. Those utility being directly taking from teh book, not requiring special ruling make them a lot more reliable for every table using 2024 rules.
Then finally true strike got some other ambiguous rules associated with it that especially if your build dip 1 level in wizard, could be interesting to investigate.
the true strike cantrip include a weapon attack as part of the spell and that weapon attack can be converted to radiant as per the spell.
Any rider that apply to the regular weapon attack also apply to the true strike attack. (so if our archery rogue using a +2 longbows, an orc bane arrow (+2d6 damage
VS orc) has Hex cast on the target (an orc) and cast true strike as a rogue 11/wizard evoker 3/fighter 1
he would deal 1d8 (longbow) +5(Int)+2(bow enchantment)+2d6(orc bane)+ 6d6 (sneak attack)+ 1d6(hex)+2d6(true strike)
Which part of those damage can be converted to radiant damage as per true strike?
If the attack miss, evoker potent cantrip allow to still deal half the cantrip damage on a miss.
What is considered as the "cantrip damage" when the cantrip include a weapon attack and all the riders? (this is true of true strike, but also true with booming blade and Green flame blade)
Does it make a difference if we convert the damage to radiant?
This build is good, but you still didn't fix the fact that each scroll takes a day to scribe. Yes, you can argue a work day is 8 hours, but that doesn't automatically mean you can dedicate work 24hrs straight and make 3 scrolls, or spending extra time each day reducing the number of days to scribe higher level scrolls. But if your DM allows you to claim your character is fine living their life as a printer every moment of their life not in combat, at most you make 2.5 scrolls a day. So for every 2 ROUNDS of combat, you need a day of downtime?
5 scrolls every two days of downtime. 3 scrolls every two days of adventuring (assuming you’re actually adventuring for 8 full hours). With the new DMG it’s even easier and quicker to get scrolls.
I see no issues unless you get almost no downtime for some reason. In that case, this isn’t the build for you.
@@cmccbuilds8229 I disagree with assuming a DM would allow me to make 5 scroll in 2 days (I wouldn't as a DM for sure). But even using your numbers it requires a lot of downtime. Let's say the average adventuring day you have 15 rounds of combat. For 2 days would be 30 scrolls which you say you'd produce 3 on. You'd then need 11 days downtime chained to a desk to to make the other 27. So effectively you can adventure once every 7 days or so AT BEST
@timjensen4320 1. DMs can disallow any rule they want. It brings nothing to the table to mention that a rule or mechanics can be ignored by DMs
2. As stated, you’re not casting true strike every single turn. You can, but you should be using magic items and other scrolls to good effect.
3. That timeline isn’t that bad and will only get better with the new dmg
@@cmccbuilds8229 I'll take your word on new DMG as it's not out, but I'd be surprised if it override the new PHB by much.
I don't see it as ignoring a rule as much as we differ in our interpretation of what's written. The chart for crafting lists a number of DAYS it takes to craft a scroll. It also defines that you must spent 8 hours of that day crafting for it to count as a days work. The book does NOT say you can spend 16 hours in one day to get credit for two days of work. It does not say it's possible for a character to be so efficient with their time that they can spend 20 hours every single day being productive (guess someone else is feeding them, going shopping for supplies, changing their pee bucket, etc).
I'm not trying to be difficult here. I'm just pointing out that while your damage numbers look great on paper, outside the white room that damage doesn't seem sustainable in almost any campaign I've ever played in.
@timjensen4320 WotC just released a dmg video. Check it out
One thing to consider is that readying true strike takes your reaction. This would make Shield and Absorb Elements less useful.
Not useless just less useful.
By the way, using Dissonant Whispers via scroll in a party with multiple melee might generate more damage, just not from the Rogue (who used their reaction for the casting and would not get the Opp Attack).
Readying an action doesn’t take a reaction. It takes the action. The reaction is used when you cast the spell.
But yeah, your general point is a good one. Again, you’re not always using true strike off turn. Lots of flexibility with other scrolls and magic items.
@@cmccbuilds8229absolutely. You are much more precise than I was. The precision in rules like this are totally required! Thanks!
And thank you for capturing my intent.
*Using* the readied action would be the reaction. If you use the reaction on the start of the very next turn all the time, then you would consistently be using your reaction for True Strike. WHICH IS AWESOME! Predictable reaction attacks are the dream for rogues.
My intent was to point out that using the ready action costs not only your action, but your reaction.
No question that this works per RAW. But… it just shouldn’t. The idea that you gotta do this weird action economy hack for mega damage just screams “exploit” to me. I mind it less with Haste (because it’s a resource, there’s a risk factor, etc) than here. I’m coming around to the view that sneak attack dice should have been doubled and sneak attack limited to 1/round.
I agree RAW this certainly works but was this intended? I would say no personally and I wouldn't allow this at my table nor would I subject another DM to these kind of shenanigans. Don't get me wrong it's fun to theory craft about and explore the possibilities but I think builds with these kinds of exploits contribute to the bad rep that min/maxers get. But as always with D&D to each their own.
Nice AI thumbnail art. That's a level of art theft that really makes me wanna unsubscribe.
Reposting this comment from last vid for visibility since it wasn’t addressed in the video:
I don’t know if any DM would call you on this, but RAW you can’t use a spell scroll to cast True Strike. The issue is that the scroll casts the spell without material components (not optional) and the text of the spell checks for the material component you used. There’s an argument that you can use the same weapon while scribing a scroll to pair the scroll with the weapon, but RAW the scroll is very explicit that that you don’t use material components.
Stop it. You were wrong then and are continuing to be wrong.
@@grendl74Hello, while I appreciate the directness of your reply, I would appreciate any evidence you may have to my being wrong. I would love to be proven wrong since this is a very cool combo, but everything I see points to scrolls of True Strike being unusable. Please tell me if you have any info that contradicts this. Thanks so much!
@queenofweirdness101 you have been given not one but two videos explaining why you're wrong. It's not my job to teach you to understand reading comprehension and I'm not going to assigned work by you.
@@grendl74 I mean he seems to raise an interesting question, how exactly is he wrong? The video doesn't mention material components, only the rules regarding bonus action use of scrolls (which I don't see a problem with). True Strike specifies "you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell's casting", if a spell scroll removes the material component (weapon) from the casting, how can you even cast this spell in scroll form?
How disappointing, you ignore the part of Magic Action that calls out magic items vs spells... oh well, I can run with that ruling.
You don't need a Wizard dip to cast true strike as a bonus action, because according to the logic shown at the six minute mark, you can use a magic item (Ruby of the War Mage) to take the Magic Action (cast a spell) to cast true strike as a bonus action using fast hands. With my optimization you can now spend your gold on your Bastion instead of on spell scrolls.
It also highly amuses me that Fast Hands never requires you to use your hands at all, so long as you take the magic action and a magic item is involved.
I also have something to look forward to, as Fast Hands can also use Class features as bonus actions. Using the magic item Amulet of the Devout you can take the magic action to use Channel Divinity as a bonus action. No idea on where that line of thought goes, but it sounds like it could be fun exploring that path for all classes.
It's cute how you're still wrong.
@grendl74 so you think you cannot use a magic item (Spell Scroll) to take the magic action (Cast a spell) to cast true strike as a bonus action? Odd take, but ok.
@@generalprinny5561 Nope, that's not at all what you write. But, hey, go on, I guess?
@grendl74 glad to hear you agree with me that you can use a magic item to cast a spell as a bonus action.
So how many scrolls do you need to run this build for one 4 round fight?
Lol
Prior to level 18: 4