How to identify manipulation - and what to do about it
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2021
- Do you want to avoid manipulation in relationships? Or manipulation at work? Do you want to learn more about how to stop a manipulator? And learn how manipulation and autism can crossover?
In this video, I take you through what manipulation is, what are the signs of manipulation, why autistic people can be accused of manipulation and are more vulnerable to being manipulated and what you can do about it!
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"You're overthinking it" in my experience, is a very commonly used phrase by non autistic people that makes me feel gaslit.
I use to answer that with «that may be so, but thinking is my only way of understanding the world🤷🏼♀️»
Yep, I always respond by saying “what you consider *over*thinking is just simply thinking to me”
@@marzwolfe4037 and I thought that come back of mine was original. I think I need to think (or overthink) this.
@@marzwolfe4037 Same, I usually reply with "...or are you simply not thinking enough about it?", or I used to because I no longer hang out with neurotypicals :D
I get that CONSTANTLY. Or "You're getting stuck in your head" because I'm feeling uncomfortable.
I always wondered if people were honestly just that stupid and don't think about things, or if I'm slow and having to struggle through what others just seem to naturally get.
I over share all the time and I don't realize I'm doing it until I'm in a rant, then I apologize and rant about how I sometimes intentionally rant before I apologize again and leave embarrassed
Omg me like every day. 🤣👍🏼
Can definitely relate!
When she gave the example: “you can’t hear the electricity”, I almost shouted at the screen: *“yes I can, it always buzzes and whines when it’s on!”*
I enjoy these videos a lot, they’re either educational, or I just vibe and jive with them
Or the weird high pitched noise older TVs or cheap TVs made/make when first turned on!
Yes! And silent alarm sounds (low level hum) & the lights buzzing in stores! I can't believe others can hear it! I thought it was just me.
Right??!
I’ve always been able to “hear electricity,” and just figured that that was some weird thing I could do that no one else could. I embraced it as a (unfortunately useless, but also not embarrassing) super power.
I am beyond thankful for the validation and KUDOS I get from this community. ✊😭
@@peasandorangechicken Yes, this! My TV always sings me the song of its people when I plug it in, and I can hear the point after which it will accept remote input. It has become a fun little ritual of mine to try to turn it on exactly at that point.
As a child I told my parents that I can hear electricity and they told me that's impossible, so I believed that it's in my head. I guess it isn't.
yeah people annoy me with the question why Im so sensitive ... ask my brain 😂
I've had the same thought - that alexithymia might come from constant gaslighting and the resulting disconnection from and denial of feelings - also wonder if it explains feeling disconnected from body, feeling non-human, and getting tuned out from gut instinct. Just so many messages growing up from very early telling us our inner instincts are wrong. No wonder there is an overlap with those who experience childhood abuse (and of course there's a higher chance autistic people experienced that too).
Makes a lot of sense.
They all sound like trauma responses and being constantly gaslit can be traumatic for many
First time I ever heard about trauma dumping. Thank you for talking about this topic, neurodivergence and abuse/trauma is an interesting topic of conversation that seems as of yet pretty sparsely discussed in general.
Me too... completely cringed at myself for oversharing recently after hearing that. Something to work towards in the future!
FWIW I don't think it's necessarily always a bad thing. Seeing my own reactions to other peoples' experiences has helped me identify my own moorings of trauma that I'd simply been too disassociated from to properly recognize. Like... stuff that I went through doesn't have any emotion attached to it in my mind, but then I get super upset when I learn about other people going through similar things.
Which isn't to say it's a *good* thing to just trauma dump, just that it's not *universally* bad.
i think sometimes trauma dumping has an unfair rep. if you arent in the headspace to help, all you have to do is not fcking reply. Trauma dumping probably saves peoples lives. You have to pay for happiness in this world and most of us just cant, plus therapy just ISNT FOR EVERYONE. Some of us just CANT connect with people like that. & that's okay.
Same. I just thought that if everybody else was not telling me about their own trauma was because they did not have any. This helps me asking for consent more often when talking about things that are difficult to talk about.
@@Feminazi1dc unhealthy take
I've definitely experienced this growing up. I was a friendly, naive, innocent, pure, weird kid who wanted to be liked by everyone. I've been manipulated by lots of people and was taken advantage of. I tend to do this lots, I do tend to relate the story back to myself.
This was me 🥺
I was also like you. I got taken advantage of by a classmate who only came to me to help her with school since i was a good student and didn't really liked me. Hope your doing better now
My latest one was befriending a narcissist, it took him literally stealing my business idea for me to start realizing he was not such a good friend after all... I get way too comfortable with people way too quickly if I feel like we click, but I am trying hard to be more careful in the future.
This was also me when I had this “friend” that I used to be with who manipulated me to bully another girl back in elementary. Since I didn’t know about bullying at that time, I thought it was ok until I learned about it in third grade and after that I friended the girl I bullied before and cut ties with this “friend” I used to like.
We're people pleasers, unfortunately making ourselves less pleased.
I was worried this would trigger me but actually it really helped to have the clarity of my autistic behavior that could look manipulative vs. manipulative behavior.
Yes me too.
Oof! This got me in the feels. Brilliant stuff, Sam. Thank you.
Learning that I’m autistic and therefore vulnerable to manipulation has been hugely healing for me during the past year or two. I’ve known in the past that I was being bullied, manipulated and gaslit but I blamed myself. As you said, thinking of myself as just too sensitive or stupid to have ended up in a situation where I was hurt has been a source of immense shame and I’ve been working on that in therapy for a while now.
We are not broken neurotypicals, we are whole and complete autistics! And it is okay to need help and support, because, after all, the world is not designed for us and that in and of itself can be traumatising.
“No is a complete sentence.” That is powerfully succinct
One thing I really struggle with as an autistic person is figuring out how non-autistics want to be apologized to. I feel like there is a delicate balance between under apologizing and over apologizing and I can't figure out what that balance is. Also, how do you know when an autistic person is being manipulative vs when they're just being autistic? I feel like I have a better sense of when autistic people are manipulating me than when neurotypical people do it, but I don't want to assume autistic people are being manipulative when they could just be expressing their autism in a different way than I express it.
I'm sorry or oops, is enough for simple things like knocking food off the table or letting go of the door in their face because you thought they had it. If you wrecked their car, I'm sorry is a good start, but then you have to figure out how to make them whole by paying for repairs or a new car if theirs was totaled (Insurance is so helpful). If you embarassed someone, see if there is more that you can do to make them feel better. The real key is if you are really sorry, you will try to not repeat the mistake.
@@mgd6087 It doesn't seem to be that easy. Some people seem to take anything more than "sorry" as making excuses. Which I don't get because if I hurt someone, especially without realizing I did it, I want to know how to prevent the same thing in the future. Just saying "I'm sorry" doesn't lead to the answer to fix the problem.
@@bdhesse If your body injured someone you are responsible for it because you are "the pilot" of your body. It doesn't matter at all if you didn't mean to. They are physically hurting if there was much energy in the collision. As long as there are no serious injuries and they liked you before, they will get over it after a while. If it is a repeating "accident" you have to pay more attention and maybe the two of you need to come up with a solution so that it stops happening. You can ask them if they have any ideas on how to prevent it in the future. I'm sure at some point someone told you not to laugh during funerals especially when people are crying. Non-autistics are not all the same in terms of sensitivity to pain and also cultural norms. In my very ethnic, immigrant neighborhood there is a lot of crowding and bumping as people go from store to store and shop for food out on the sidewalk. They can be oblivious to small bumps and get a lot closer that the rest of us find comfortable. They would not expect or give an apology for small pushing. Other people who are of different ethnicity can get seriously offended by being bumped and especially that there was no apology. Different example: Some people get wacked out if the toilet seat and lid are not put down after every use. Some want the seat down but don't care about the lid. Other's don't care about either at all. In this case it is more important to find out what is acceptable and just do it. At my house we leave it the way I like. At my friend's house we do it they way they like. No one is "right". Everyone has their own reasons that they like it a certain way and everyone uses the bathroom. The only issue is how people will peacefully coexist.
The problem might be HOW you're apologizing, rather than how much. Look up resources on how to make a good apology, which should give you a rubric to test your apologies against. You mentioned in a later comment that they start feeling you are making excuses; I also tend to try to explain what happened, but it makes for a better apology to focus on the person who was hurt and the impact on them, rather than the reasons from your perspective.
This has been a hard thing for me to try to adjust to, especially since I am the exact opposite: I don't really care how guilty or sorry you are, I want to understand how/why it happened! But apparently most people just want to know that you validate their feelings of being hurt.
@@jadelinny My view: I can tell when someone is sincerely sorry. Those are the people who I don't need an apology from because I already know they will try hard not to repeat the mistake or injury. For others they are sorry they got caught rather than sorry they caused harm.
A good book on non-verbal communication is "What every BODY is saying" by Joe Navarro. You can't detect lying. You can only detect a change in person's sense of comfort. If the person interrogated is nervous from the start, they will use the same body language as if "lying", even if they're not. You need to make them comfortable first. If during asking a question they start using signs of nervousness, they may be lying, but they may also be nervous for another reason. The detection rate on average is about 50:50.
This has ruined my life. My two last exes was really destructive and I eventually bacome ill and later on developed ME/CFS. It was during adulthood I figured out that manipulation even existed. I've been soo naive my whole life. I'm 37 and it's not until now I've started to realize I'm probably autistic and that explains, well everything.
Did ypu get diagnsed
@@turtleanton6539 Not yet. I'm waiting for like an evaluation. But the primary care givers psychologist suspect and/or some other neuropsychiatric disorder of some kind.
Oooof that bullseye ring. I used to think anyone who was remotely nice to me/talking to me at all was "my friend".
I had this same feeling when I first saw the diagram
That's funny, I still always assume that I'm not close with people, even after they claim to be friends. I just don't see how I matter to them unless there's a consistent set of actions on their side
This is why I choose to be alone and assume everyone (NTs specifically) is horrible, because abuse and manipulation towards us is so common. It's actually a nice weight lifted off me to just go about my day with minimal socializing and I can be blunt or "mean" and not care.
My safety over their feelings.
The thing about reading body language cues is establishing a baseline of behaviour for an individual. Then observing changes in that baseline. For example an interrogator may ask a suspect simple questions like their name, age, etc to establish their baseline of behaviour, vocal cadence etc and then go into the hard questions like, “Where were you on the night of the murder?” to see that persons responses in contrast to the baseline established. This is why looking up and left doesn’t automatically mean you’re lying. Not making eye contact doesn’t mean you’re inevitably a shady character.
It still relies on the assumption that the perpetrator would experience distress when discussing the topic they're suspected off and innocent people will not. That distress most likely stems from the fear of being punished for their crime. As a result, people who are used to get away with anything are more likely to commit crime and less likely to be punished for it as they won't experience distress. Whereas people who are used to being accused and punished for things they didn't do are less likely to commit crime but more likely to be punished regardless as they will experience distress due to fear of punishment because they know it doesn't matter they did not commit the crime. I believe this dynamic plays an important role in police oppression of minority groups.
@@bcmpinc Thank you for this well articulated addition! ❤️👍
"for example, the UK government" instant like!
Yep it's difficult for ADHD folk to pick up on manipulation too. Hang in there folks!!
I'll just share an anecdote of manipulation meets bluntness:
Finance director: Don't you trust me?
Me: No.
I love the part in the video about how autistic behaviors can be misinterpreted as manipulative. I’m guessing this sometimes can apply to non-autistic people as well. It can all get very confusing. I have felt a lot of guilt lately, because I’m realizing some behaviors I interpreted as being manipulative MIGHT have been due to neurodivergent traits such as alexythemia. It’s such a hard balance… protecting ourselves from abuse and boundary intrusions but also having compassion for other people. I usually fail horribly at this balance… either being too mean to protect myself or being a doormat because of hyperempathy. 😩
Same here it's rough not knowing I just say to myself if it feels like abuse it probably is . No matter if the person means to or not. And then decide if I wanna stay and try to set boundaries or leave
Or maybe you're just manipulative and use autism as an excuse. I'm not being agressive, I'm saying this as advice.
Night+ an listen8ngbtpnthhis
This is something I’ve thought a lot about…
I am autistic and have a very close autistic friend. Our friendship had been and still is very important to me. It has really helped me understand my own autism and grow in confidence. However, it can sometimes be very difficult because of those exact same autistic traits you mentioned. Even when theses tactics are a result of self preservation and not intended to hurt… unintentionally manipulation still hurts.
Then pair that with a shared difficulty in expressing and recognizing each other’s boundaries… few people have had such an overall positive impact on my life but few people are able to hurt me the way they can.
I don’t know, maybe that’s just what it’s like when you let yourself be venerable with someone wether you’re autistic or not. 🤷♀️
Sam, our community is so lucky to have you. You are such a wonderful soul and you have created so many invaluable videos, this being one of them. I will always be greatful for everything you have taught us. Hope life is letting you rest and recharge - a great video is always appreciated but knowing our Sam is okay is the most important thing! 💕
Thank you Holly!
Sam, this is my favorite video of yours so far. I have one suggestion. Can you include a brief half-second pause between sentences in the editing cuts? I find it much easier to process.
Same. This is by far one of the most helpful videos I’ve seen on this subject, but as a non-native English speaker, it was really hard to process.
Seconded. The talking was quite fast for me to understand.
Yeah I usually don't have an issue with this but I watched sections on 0.75 speed and then again at "normal" speed. I like your suggestion. At least it's not live and we have options like this tho.
Great video. If you feel like it I would 1000% appreciate if you could go more in depth about memory being associative instead of linear! Thanks.
Yes! I would love to learn more about associative vs. linear memory as well. I've analyzed/thought about this subject in my personal life a lot.
"Bureaucratic bullying happens when the person overwhelms you with paperwork procedures or red tape to make it impossible to move forward. For example the UK government." Fabulous!!! You're brilliant Sam!
"don't fix other people", has been important!
My circle of friends grows and new friends get excited when they're told by whomever introduced them that I can do things (hyperfocus benefit) they start imagining all the things in their lives I could help with (from their memory to their fence panels)!
I used to get drawn in and spend my life helping others with little to no reward, now I explain that, "everyone says that", when they ask if I would fix them or their environment and it seems to be the polite way of saying, "no". No friendship points are lost...
We are definitely easy targets. Emotional manipulation is the story of my life, but I am beginning to see through the veil. One way of identifying manipulators is to identify which category of emotional vampires they fit into, as you have also done in this video. It is also nice to see somebody put the fact of us aspies being seen as bullies and manipulators into perspective. We are more empathic and compassionate than most neurotypicals, but we are misunderstood. Our intentions are not bad. I also struggle with people invading my personal space. I was physically and emotionally abused by school bullies in the 80's and '90s. I never finished my studies and I left school early. This is also mentioned in my Asperger's diagnosis report. All humans need their personal space of at least 1.5 meters, but it is more important for us.
"Observe the emotions but don't absorb them!" 👌🏼That's genious!
Thank you for this video!
It's so funny everytime I realize a 'normal' behaviour of mine is again another autistic trait. I thought I've become some kind of an expert on autistic traits by now, because it kinda became a special interest for me to research autism traits.😋
But this one was new to me. When someone speaks to me, often I relate and share a similar experience I had. But I've learned that some people didn't like that so I try to not do it that often. But I can't help it...I just HAVE to share my experience. 😅 Right now I'm working on 'minimizing' my storys...I often share everything from A to Z and it ends up with a monologue.
Being autistic and knowing about it is kinda hard...
Anyway....originally I was planning on just thanking you for this video, and now I realized I rambled on again...it's a never ending story 😂
If you always talk about yourself when someone has shared something painful, you are hearing but not listening. It's their story with their details. They may not have the capacity to help you process your feelings at that time. Classically: "My father just died" "I know how you feel, my dog died last year". The correct answer to my "dad just died" is "I'm so sorry" or "my condolences". The next thing you say will depend on what relationship you have to them. If you knew the dad you might ask if they are planning a service (so you can attend). If it was a tragedy a comment like "that is so sad" or "how are you doing with it?". There are etiquette books that are extremely helpful on dealing with deaths. If someone is all worked up about something, when they have let off steam about it, you might ask if they have thought about what they might do about it.
@@mgd6087 I don’t know what to say when someone has that experience. I didn’t know what to say when my dad died, we were close but I didn’t feel much either.
@@honved1 I am sorry for your loss, no matter how long it's been. For you the words "We were close." would be fine. If it's true, you might say "I' glad I had a good dad". "I will miss him." "I'm not sad that he's gone, but I would have enjoyed him getting to live longer." "I'm relieved he didn't have to suffer longer because he was in a lot of pain at the end". "I'm glad he left me with a lot of good memories". "He taught me a lot of good things". Something like those sentences would be ok. If others say: "I'm sorry for your loss." just say thank you." If they ask you something about your dad that you are not comfortable talking about just say: "I'm not comfortable talking about it." If you do want to say more about him: "let me tell you about how (funny, smart, kind, inventive, favorite sports, loved to cook, garden ...) he was. Today I paid a condolence visit to a friend who lost her most steady relationship yesterday (the dog died). She needed someone to listen to her with understanding. She told me 4 times how her dog died. She will probably tell it to me somemore times because of how shocked she was at the suddenness of it. As I listened to the repetitions, other parts of the story came out and each one of those pieces was important to her. I just kept listening until she announced that she was exhausted and wanted to sleep. So I said ok. I'll go now. I took my cues from her. (The first time she had said she was tired and then she kept on talking so I just stayed and listened.) Nobody is great at handling the news of a significant death whether they are the one grieving or the one supporting the bereaved. There are advice and ettiquette books that will help you have more confidence in those situations.
The worst thing about manipulation, for me was the anger and regret I felt when I realised I had been manipulated for the first 40 years of my life. And this realisation only happens because I got an ADHD and autism diagnosis at 40.
"It may seem that setting boundaries will keep you isolated from people". That perception is often a main cause why people stay stuck in self doubt and toxic relationships. Nail on the head.
Unfortunately I never know when I’m being taken advantage of so I get people doing it all the time. My family tells me when people are so I at least have that to help keep me safe.
"Stop being so sensitive!" "Are you crying AGAIN?" "You don't want that." "It's not THAT bad." "You're not really tired/sick/upset." "Oh, ignore her, she just wants attention." "I don't remember it that way." Well, that was me growing up.
That was my first marriage too
Me too
As someone who's on the mild end of the Spectrum ( Asperger's ), I've been manipulated myself a few times. The worst was a 7 year friendship with a chap whom I only fully realized in the 6 years since I got out of there only befriended me out of pity cos he seemed convinced that the majority of people were out to give me grief cos I was different hence him trying to give me trust issues. I mean yes, I have gotten grief but not on the scale that he claims & nothing compared to the grief he generally gave me. And what's really sad is that, as someone who was also in the same year as me at Primary School, he just couldn't accept that I had changed & grown more confident ( socially in particular, he'd often get suspicious if I wasn't talking much lol seriously ) over the past 20 years.
Omgosh new video!! Hi!! I hope you're doing well!
I always think I’m being manipulated but I go along with it most of the time because I don’t want to lose out on relationships and normalcy. I’ve also been told that I’m very controlling but it never makes sense to me because it’s always when I’m being manipulated. Aarrrggghhh! Life is so hard to understand!
I was told I was being controlling when I set and communicated reasonable boundaries to someone who lacked personal boundaries. It has taken me a long time to finally start to see relationships as they really are and recognize the red flags.
@@elizabethcarroll2360 I think everyone has a different view of what manipulation is.
As a bloke I was always told to tell a female how things make "me feel" so that they would understand the full extent of what I mean. Example: When you do this... or when this happens it make me feel "XYZ". Nowadays some people say that that is emotional manipulation! How confusing!!!
I am endlessly recalling anecdotes of my similar situations and I never used to realize people would take it as trying to "one up" them... I was just trying to relate and keep the conversation going...
How do they react when you tell your story? Do they engage or do they disengage? Intentions and what is inferred often conflict. It's certainly possible they are receptive to your anecdote but it can also be seen as one-upmanship. It's hard in American society where politeness is the societal standard that it's hard to find out the truth. I've heard other cultures are "ruder" but at least people are free to speak their mind/feelings.
@@sallyjrwjrw6766 most people will be ok with it luckily, but I have had a few visibly mad at me and start to push me out of the conversation. I have been able to offset more often with compliments on theirs (which I thought their story was awesome but I just didn't say it)
@@PeterDragonPPG yes, because sometimes it can seem like you were just waiting to speak instead of actually listening.
@@sallyjrwjrw6766 naa, I stopped waiting to speak a long time ago, I now have to hold myself back from interrupting people; I now know how to keep conversations going and stay engaged, and I also know when other people have lost interest for any of their own reasons. I always listen, but very often I have people accuse me of not listening
I had to start over and start taking notes. 3 pages of them. I know a lot of this stuff but it feels so good to hear somebody else validate it. Well, maybe not that great because it means..... well... no trauma dumping ✔
This video is quite informative. It helps me see my vulnerability to being manipulated as an autistic person, AND it helps to understand why I have been accused of manipulation and gas lighting, even being narcissistic.
Thanks Yo Samdy Sam
Honestly I kind of agree when people say and use the word "narcissist" or brand them as "toxic" simply because they do something that somebody does/doesn't want them to do. And what if they even are that way I would honestly say it would lean more towards emotional immaturity than a would-be narcissism. Emotional immaturity is far more prevalent and changeable than narcissism is in a clinical diagnosis that is an actual mental diagnosis and not just a cultural shaming word
Videos like this make me question if my whole family autistic and it just seems like they’re all manipulative, but they’re not. They’re just undiagnosed… They also don’t want to be diagnosed and my mom is venomously against diagnosis.
Lol. I was thinking the same thing! Well, in my mind, there's a difference between being 'manipulative' vs 'being persuasive'. The persuasive behavior is pretty much out in the open. The manipulative behavior is pretty much a hidden agenda. Otherwise, the tactics can seem identical.
Thank you for saying something about narcissism. I have taken note how trendy it is to use that word and it’s always made feel uncomfortable and uneasy that it is a buzzword.
I'm honestly impressed by your 'comeback' video, well researched, very informative, not overwhelming and as an added bonus the editing was amazing. 😁 now I'm off googling this personality disorder you mentioned. 😎
*Desperately scrolling the comments to find someone who noticed the editing*
@@YoSamdySam You did great!!! Way to go, Sam! 🤩
I agree. It definitely seemed like it has extra polish from what I remembered from previous videos.
@@YoSamdySam Hello Samdy love your videos.
Just a question do you believe in God?
This is so important to many of us. If it hadn't been for people like you, who explain how manipulation works, I would have never realised I'm dealing with that sort of stuff. Thank you
Heavy topic, but this actually made me chuckle in realization of how my ADHD confusion has probably been misinterpreted in the past. Thanks for a great video!
I have dealt with this most of my life, I didn’t really know how to deal with it so I found it easier to be a loaner and keep everyone at arms length and still do.
You have described things a real friend can do, that I point out a time you remembered wrong, doesn't mean I'm gaslighting you, in 100% of the cases, it means human nature and bad memory means one of us is remembering something wrong.
Your target audience is people who can have a nervous disposition and you just spend 30 minutes scaring the crap out of anyone who was otherwise able to have some social interactions.
When talking about Mental Health. A couple of things that I try to keep in mind is I don't talk about the cause of the trauma, I talk about the solution. I use "I and me" statements. So something like, "Sometimes in situations where there's conflict I feel anxiety and I check in with my 5 senses, and that helps me stay in the moment and give myself a second to breath". I feel like this makes it harder for anyone to disagree with my experience and avoids conflict.
A warning for people out there. The manipulator may even accept the guilt of something if you push them hard enough, but they'll always turn something on you too. As if "I'm not the only guilty here, apologize to me too" or "you treated me badly too because of what I did to you so we're even". It's happened to me before.
This made me think about my own behavior. My mother is a narcissist. And it could be that I manipulated other people sometimes. Not because I want to control them, but because that's the behavior I've learned from my upbringing.
Coming from a stranger on the internet, who is friends with children of an abusive mother - the difference between your mother and you will come down to how you handle feedback, boundaries, requests for change, and criticism. And whether you are trying to be a better person or just a "good enough" person. You're more than what you learned growing up, and washing out those toxic behaviors is very possible. Good luck and you're already doing great, by doing self-reflection.
@@pluspiping Thank you for your advise. I totally agree with you.
Those learned behaviors are known as 'narcissistic fleas'.
After being out of an abuse friendship that lasted 3 years, it's crazy to see how all of these things were being done to me, all the time. They used their depression as guilt tripping and used my want for being a better friend to call me a bad friend/bad person whenever I tried to remove myself from the situation. I knew something was wrong, but was afraid to leave, since threats of SH were usually their go-to.
I'm finally free of them and never been happier.
To anyone out there dealing with a manipulator. Be careful and have the courage to leave. It will get better.
Oh, I DEFINITELY can hear the electricity. Haven't ever heard someone else mention it. Glad you did!
I went through this hellish rollercoaster of self-doubt and paranoia recently, because 2020 wasn't hard enough. I have a fascination for psychology and I started to get interested in narcissism and trauma. It was horrible to read it about it, and to recognize (in that black or white-way) those traits in my own behavior. Felt horrible depression, guilt and confusion for over a year. It was also confusing to realize the many times, that I've been abused and manipulated in the past by self-centered, wounded people. Thank you for the video, it feels like I'm not alone and going crazy with thoughts like these.
How's it going so far? I've been dealing with this for the last four months.
I am lucky I don’t have anyone close to me that’s overly like this. I do have to set my boundaries better though. The worst example in my life is the vice principle at my kids school. 😬 Soooo much of this applies to the way she does things. But fortunately, we don’t have to deal with her very often, and I’ll bring my husband along just to make sure things go better.
I’m also glad you covered the autistic side of things, because I have noticed a LOT of what autism involves can come across that way and I always feel so worried people will think I’m doing things to be manipulative, and it’s really not, it’s just something I actually need vs trying to advance myself at the cost of someone else. To me that’s where the difference comes in.
A simple test of someone's character is can they do something for free/give away something for free. I have given away second hand goods, because bringing money into it infers a benefit. Plus if no money is exchanged there's no comebacks if there's a problem! I have had zero relationships. I'm 46. Is this normal? I don't think so, but what am I missing out on? Would my life be better with a partner? Should I because that is what society expects? I tend to go against some of societies norms, and I'm perfectly fine.
This is incredible….. particularly the part on how autistic people’s behaviour may be misconstrued as being manipulative.
they should teach this in primary school
Would you do a video similar to this that covers, anxiety, depression, meltdowns, anxiety attacks, "outbursts " or "anger issues", stimming, shutdowns, masking? Specifically how these relate/compare and/or misdiagnosed and what pushes ND people into these mental distress situations and how to help recover. It feels like this fine balance between survival in a NT world and avoiding pushing to a point of mental breakdown and especially where I am at (undiagnosed) having to mask and suppress self soothing methods (stimming) because it doesn't appear normal or makes others uncomfortable.
Thank you so much for making this video! I was raised in an abusive home and did not learn how to “people” and I also have worked very hard to break the cycle and raise my kids in a loving open environment. Since they are now bigger I have been trying to teach them more advanced concepts about boundaries and manipulation and you explained it so much better than I could! I also appreciate your perspective which allows them to understand their friends who have autism. Although we ourselves are not autistic ( so far as we know) since I grew up with trauma everyone here is very direct and literal so indirect or manipulative behavior is confusing to them. I’ve even shared your video with my friend who is trying to teach her kid to spot manipulation as well. So, not only are you helping people protect themselves, you’re helping parents teach kids to protect themselves and their friends, and to avoid accidentally hurting people they care about! So thank you 😊
Wish I could like this video 10x times. Relate on both ends. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
Yep, we do relate everything to ourselves. Sometimes it's better to just ask questions and let the other person talk.
This is the first video about manipulation I've seen that acknowledges the ways natural autistic behaviour can come across as manipulative. Thank you for including that. On the topic of boundaries, I wonder if you could discuss (or recommend anyone who has already discussed) what to do when other people refuse to set boundaries? Because I've found myself in situations where I've realised that the other person either thinks I'm manipulative or I'm totally oblivious to their emotions and needs, when in fact I had tried to check in ("hey, is this a good time to talk? it's ok if it's not" etc) but been told it was fine. I don't know how to respect someone's boundaries if they haven't set any and I can't read their tone well enough (especially over text) to know if I'm overstepping some invisible line that they think is visible...
I have found in my own experience that people who lack personal boundaries are much more likely to disrespect or disregard my boundaries. It is a very dangerous situation.
You can be austistic and manipulative. Generally, manipulation isn't conscious. You could manipulate others without realizing.
As a BPD autistic person, your intro was so thoughtful, thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you for this video. I have personal experience with being in a manipulative relationship, but I particularly found value in the topic of gaslighting in terms of being autistic and growing up. I've never really thought of it like that, but it was very recognizable. I've been told a lot that I'm lazy and don't have any discipline or willpower. I was probably just constantly overwhelmed and shutting down...
You don't know how unbelievably helpful and clarifying this video has been for me. Thank you so much for talking about it.
Absolutely excellent! I was worried for the 1st half that I have been accused of some of these 'manipulative' behaviours totally wrongly & completely misunderstood, by someone with no patience & little empathy ... but then the 2nd half explained how autistic people are often misinterpreted by neurotypicals in a society where manipulation is endemic (advertising, politics etc.) I never intend to manipulate. I am straightforward to a fault! But I can come across wrongly when people assume subterfuge or hidden motives or misinterpret my facial expressions (which bear no resemblance to my feelings apparently.)
You are brilliant & most helpful, but the deluge of info, the speed & intensity are overwhelming to me & I couldn't take it all in at once. So I'm going to re-listen to a slowed-down repeat of this, allowing myself pauses for thought & to absorb & consider it all.
Thanks again. This is wonderful. :)
The most effective way I found to handle abusive people that are unavoidable like relatives, workmates or spouses, is to mirror their abusive behavior and parrot their hurtful words back to them as often as possible, until they realize it.
Beautifully explained.
Definitely been there (both manipulating - consciously or not - and being manipulated, mostly the latter, though). Good to know that I've already been improving my protective strategies since I've discovered I'm very likely on the spectrum.
Boundaries are probably the most powerful "tools" we have to deal with others, indeed.
Thank you for a very helpful & incredibly important video on the aspects of manipulation. Boundaries are so important, it's the learning of when, where, what and the how that's a slippery slide into confusion.
This is quite possibly the most difficult subject to tackle and you did it well, very well! Thank you.
It's sad to know there are people out there that manipulate and abuse others and that we as neurodivergent people are more likely to fall victim to them. Thankfully it's also good to know we're not alone in this and we can heal and learn and grow.
Thank you for talking about this subject, Sam. It's important to recognise this type of behaviour so that we can say 'no' to it and walk away and mitigate the damage.
Never seen the bullseye chart. But, developed this 25yrs ago but with a ripple in a pond analogy. Inner ripples, people you love & trust. Used this for my kids at school. Asked "where are they in the ripples? Are they even in the pond" saved a lot of hurt. As adults they even use this now.
Some of what was said here I think is why I both have hated salespeople like temperaments and why I felt like I was supposed to learn to be more like them. I felt they had more power than I did, while also feeling more skittish around them.
Alot of what you covered I learned from the Army in my line of work. LOTS of cross referencing of previous information and outside examples, really does help. It's hard, and it only works if you're vigilant, but you can spot it in time with some training.
Thank you zalseon for your work!
@@jamarawilliams5819 no prob! just remember the key to manipulation avoidance is staying on topic. Manipulators regularly shift topics mid convo and toss in as much junk information as they can so you're confused and or distracted enough that they can get what they want out of ya.
THANK YOU for the Narc mark.
Am not a narcissist, but love one.
Everyone deserves SOMETHING GOOD.
❤
I really relate to the electricity one. It is loud. Especially when something has just been turned on, or you're in a heavy usage area.
This video is important.
Thank you!
ADHD here. We also enjoy anectodal sharing. It's not competitive - it's troubleshooting for everybody!
"Troubleshooting" is the perfect way to describe it. That's what I like about autistic and ADHD circles, we're simply relating and troubleshooting our little glitches.
When you described victim manipulators you then proceeded to describe my ex-wife to a T. I eventually realized this person would never respect me or my boundaries so I blocked them on everything. Now I'm the happiest I've been in years!
Yayyyyyy love when you upload!!!!
I feel confused by the term “trauma dumping”. It sounds like a neurotypical word used to shame neurodivergent people. I learned so long ago to temper what I share to protect the feelings of neurotypical people, at high cost to myself. Because when I share something that is perfectly fine and normal and within my natural expression and boundaries, a truth that is expedient and to the point, it is sometimes inexplicably taken by neurotypical people as emotionally powered by ten times what the emotional power is to me. It’s just a fact to me. It is normal sharing. So how can I possibly tell if I’m “trauma dumping”? I am ok with protecting neurotypical people from trauma but I’m not ok with being shamed for simply communicating who and how I am in the way that is most comfortable and natural to me.
I felt confused as well…. Like have I been wrong for sharing my feelings and experiences? Where do we draw the line between protecting the listeners who might be harmed from hearing and protecting the people who feel the need to tell their story?
I do it and I'm trying to be better. It has nothing to do with shaming anyone. When I'm struggling and then I message someone to say hi and then their first response is to just tell me how they tried to... And this bad thing happened and that awful thing happened without asking me if it's ok to share, it is emotionally and mentally draining for me and I feel like they're trying to use me as a therapist. Especially as I absorb people's energy, I'm already struggling and now I feel worse.
Because I know how it feels for me (instantly or upon later realisation), I'm trying to identify what counts as trauma dumping in what I say, especially when my life has been riddled with trauma so most of it is business as usual for me. It's really difficult.
@@thirtycats "Can I share something that's been bothering me lately?"/*Someone asks 'how are you'* "If I tell you how I'm really doing it might be heavy, are you able to listen?".
It's what I'm trying but in my own voice (lots of defensive '😂😂😂' , '👀👀👀' and typos).
@@selorm That sounds like a good way to handle it! At least in terms of private one on one conversations.
I think with more public forums, it might be better to say something like… if you feel the need to share your story in the comments. please do so. But i will not be able to respond, and I can’t guarantee anyone else will respond either.
The term “trauma dumping” stung… and it made me feel guilty… wondering, is it always wrong? In comment sections? On my own blog? In conversations? But like most of everyone else here, I’m hypersensitive 🙃
It did make me feel better, though when I later connected the term trauma-dumping to info-dumping. I know info-dumping isn’t seem as negative. So when I made that connection, trauma-dumping seemed less harsh! But before making that connection, “trauma dumping” kind of reminded me of sayings like “save your drama for your mama”
@@thirtycats Yes exactly, it's the same as info dumping to me but with trauma dumping people other run the risk of being triggered by what they read because it's trauma based. I'm actually thankful for Sam to så that because there's so much trauma I would've just been splurting here and actually I don't want to share that private pain here. It gave my impulse control.
Really lovely to see you pop up in my feed today. Hope you’re doing ok. A brilliant video, well explained. Thank you for taking the time to write this and post 😘
I didn't know how much I needed to hear this.
This was super helpful! A video on autistic long term memory would also be incredibly interesting if you're interested in making that in the future!
PS. Your videos were one of the resources that helped me realize I might be autistic. Thanks for that as well!!
18:36 Re: body language - I’ve learned so much from The Behavior Panel channel here on RUclips. They’re real experts and talk all about body language detection.
"trauma dumping." So that's what's going wrong. I do this. Thank you. I need to ruminate longer. Find out why I do it, what I hope to gain, and then figure out a better way to get it.
Oh wow, thank you for helping me reframe many of my traits that I've felt deep shame around. I'm ND and likely ASC.
I've never tried to manipulate anyone but have been accused of it, and when looking into types of manipulation I started to self-label as manipulative.
When experiencing extremely harmful manipulation and recognising it I felt unable to speak up because of that self-label.
Even setting boundaries since has been deeply discomforting, because I saw them as myself being manipulative again.
This video has been eye-opening.
Love your video! Very helpful 💕 According to FBI agents who study body language, there is no universal way to tell if someone is lying. A retired agent on the YT channel Wired, goes into detail about this, hope this helps 🙏✨
Great information, not just for those of us who are autistic but for everyone! Interesting how all the manipulation tactics so perfectly describe the last few years.
Woah... Just had a mind blown moment in the section about unintentional gaslighting and how it probably correlates with a difficulty to process and connect with our own feelings. Like my jaw lowered and everything. So simple yet so profound and possibly a key to helping people. If a problem is identified, it can be solved, right? So education (as you do) about the autistic experience© would help prevent that accidental gaslighting in childhood which could help future generations avoid at least some of the minor traumas that build up over time. But a focus on educating the nondivergent population on how things are for us is that big key. We can talk amongst ourselves for eternity but we can't change how the world works. But they can if they could just listen and understand. Anyways rant over sorry lol. Thanks for the small epiphany.
P.S. guileless was a great word choice, one I've never actually spoken either lol but I love language so I thought that was nice lol
I relate so much to the unintentional gaslighting, I've internalized it so deeply I'm constantly questioning the legitimacy of my autistic experiences
Thank you so much for this! I've been struggling with this topic for a couple of weeks now and it really shed some light on certain relationships. Great and clear info as always!
Edit:
Good for you to set boundaries around trauma dumping. I sometimes do that but unintentionally, and as a person with traumatic experiences it made the comment section a lot easier to read. Also, I think the discussion becomes more constructive and focused.
It is your channel and you have all the right to define your boundaries around it!
I would say that bully and victim type manipulation is overt manipulation tactics and that there are covert manipulation tactics that are much more difficult to detect or differentiate from normal social interactions. (This ended up being mostly covered in the video.)
Also, the "why autistic people are vulnerable to manipulation" section was like a punch in the face with how accurate it was at describing my experiences.
I think it was really helpful to have the topic of emotional manipulation explained through the lens of autism. It's always interesting to me how different intentions can be behind the same begaviors!
This was so helpful wow! Also... The last blooper "don't try to beat them up" had me laughing so hard. It was a perfect outro for a heavy topic. 😂 ❤
Nice to see you again, Sam! You look great. Thanks for this video. You've given me a lot to think about. I can identify some times in the past when I was manipulated and I can see how my behaviour sometimes seems manipulating to others.
I have been struggling with this very subject for weeks. Thank you, Sam. I appreciate your great work!
I only find this sort of information on the internet. Most theraphist has broken down already self damaging boundariew just to leave me with more Shame than before. Its a Heavy system failure in a society full of power abusive behaviour. But later years Ive been runding lots about boundaries on the internet and figured I actually have done lite right when people Said I did wrong. Thank you for this spesific about autism in general. I am not sure if I manipulate much myself but I might mirror manipulators by sarqasm cause I dont have the energy for somethin else, and throwing back the truth met with Lies makes people more aware? Or defensive. I dont know. The amount of boundary violations and manipulation from the surroundings have been quite lot all of my life, and the "helpers" kind of make it worse. I wish people spendt time watching this.
I am so glad to have watched your video. I’m a neurotypical with two autistic daughters. Being able to identify my ‘manipulative’ parenting skill has been very difficult to process. I’m guilty in causing them emotional harm and they developed anxiety and depression.( now age 20 and 17). I just wish I have understood and known about their conditions earlier ( older one received formal diagnosis at 16, the youngest is not formally diagnosed yet).
I hope in everyday life there is to come, I can make up to them and help to build their self-esteem up to live a fulfilling life where they can make good choices.
thank you for this video, i have a really hard time with not knowing how much to share, assume people have good intentions. The gaslighting thing is huge too. "your too sensitive" is something I heard all the time. I now realize the family members telling me that are the manipulators. They still make fun of me about my punctuality though ( I will be an hour early so I am not late) they do not understand the level of anxiety that I experience about letting others down. I really appreciate your content.
Thank you for this wonderful, informative video! I learned so much about why certain patterns and relationship dynamics have repeated themselves many times in my life. I'm so glad you're back to making videos! Congrats on your new little one, too. 😁💖
Glad it was helpful!
One year since you posted this (and therefore theoretically 2 years since you started trying to write a script for it), I've come to say - I appreciate your emotional labour!
(and physical, intellectual etc obviously)