Cheers for ALL the new subscribers to my channel and for all the positive comments and feedback on the build video. I LOVED making this content! Thank you for watching! Huge thanks to Matt for absolutely sending the bike and helping test the frame. Hope you like this vid, and I look forward to the NEW V2 CHEEB!!!!
Cracking alternative approach to equipping yourself with an E-Bike. Your sourcing & build efforts have certainly rewarded you with a fun, capable steed. As ever, refreshing style and top drawer quality, production and content values. Looking forward to the inevitable upcoming tweak's. Keep them coming!
I'm a total novice and newbie to the world of ebikes and found this video really informative and excellent footage and filming. Look forward to more of your videos to come!
Amazing review, loved also the 1st episode. I think the whole concept of DIY has a lot of added value in the era we live in, where you can order, mix and match nearly anything you want (global flat world...). I would appreciate more videos of this type!! I really think you are doing a great service bringing to us also the edge approach to emtbs. Keep up the good work 👍👍
My cube frame came with a chinese warranty that literally states the factory it was made in. I'm pretty sure cube wasn't supposed to send that along with it lmao. The frame is one of the older zeroblack series wich were way over 1000€ new when the came out. I think production cost around 300 with maybe a 150 extra for the paintjob.
Made in China by a brand name is better than Made in China by a no name. The Chinese love cutting corners and always build to the cheapest price. It isn't cheap if it doesn't last.
I have 2 of these exact bikes but with the M600 spec'd out with XT mech, 4 pot brakes and SR Suntour Durolux 170mm upfront and their Tri-air 155mm in the rear. The top of the line Suntour is great value for top performance so helps build this bike even cheaper without sacrificing performance. They were fully built up by Dengfu and arrived complete. Just check and torque all bolts. The frames are painted so you don't need to go as far as Rob did, although his paint job is epic. Rob will find plenty of punch with the M600. The motor body itself is very waterproof. The errors from wet riding are caused by water getting to the battery pins. The battery to frame connection is set low in the frame. I have added some extra waterproofing to help keep water away from these connections.
I've never even thought proper emtb DIY is possible can you please let me know what type of frame it is please, really interested. Regarding Suntour it's good advice, how'd do you find it comparing to fox or rockshox performance wise ?
@@pahanoks I used the Dengfu E10 frame and was one of the first to try out. I had the 2 bikes built in May last year. I ordered the Suntour Durolux front and Triair rear from Kunshan Brisky Sports Co., Ltd, a trader on Alibaba. They then delivered these to Dengfu for assembly. This suspension setup is great and the 36mm stations are nice and stiff with 170mm travel. Check out reviews online. My view is that they match up to Fox and Rockshox but at a much better price ( $US590 for the set).
@@jeffstroh3521 Researched online, checked out integrity of suppliers and then organised all online. Dengfu where great and when I found a Chinese supplier of Shimano XT gear, they arranged local purchase. Not sure that you can expect them to do this every time as they normally use SRAM gear. I set out all components with each priced on a schedule. They then assembled and sent me final pictures prior to seafreight shipping. All worked out great and my brother and I have done 1,000's of kms on trails around New Zealand. The same spec'd bike here in NZ would have cost twice the price, if you could even find stock.
As a mechanic I approve of the BAFANG motors. You should see their display for trade shows. For the price it’s pretty nice hard ware. Definitely get Bosch of E-Motion if you can. Mid drive only of course. As for the frame Chinese frames can be hit or miss. Sometimes they can feel nicer than much more expensive frames. Sometimes they are crap. Attention to detail is what you’re looking for. Obviously a lot of design went into this frame in the video. Of course you potentially have less customer service and support. If order one just send it to you local bike shop. They will build it for you and make sure it’s safe to ride and everything is set up properly.
Rob: Showing comments about dangerous cracking chinese frames. Also Rob: So to help to test the frame I called in Matt... Now that's a true friend who shares his new toy before he even tries it !
I think for another video idea you could test the upgraded motor on the frame and compare the two. Lovely looking bike. I’m 6”3 and I’m wanting to get back into riding after having a big crash a few years ago
Love the ending.... going back for more punishment.... good stuff Rob, love the detail and honesty. Gives a great picture of what it takes and the risk and work it takes....
Again another supervideo really worth watching. The image and the sound and your commentaries are the best of the best. In Spanish we would say...'te lo has currado de maravilla'. Thanks, Rob, for your perfect job. Up our thumbs!!
Hey Rob. Manufacturers often tune the Motors for the expected use. Maybe you can get a Programming cable and tune the Motor to get more "punch" in the highest mode? would be nice to know if that is possible.
I dunno, components on that probably cost half of it. You could drop the component level down to Pikes, Deore drive train etc, even go second hand and build all of that for hella cheaper. And I think we were only interested in whether the frame would survive anyhow, lol.
Love these DIY videos dude. Typical diy videos are nowhere near this good in so far as video quality, editing, effort, testing and honesty. You really nailed it. Bet you’ll like the M600 heaps more, looking forward to the next one
I recon some of the best frames we all ride and love are from over there. The issue is that some factories have good standards and some don’t. Is it just luck to get a good one? I’m not sure. Would I be riding one without a good brands standards enforced into the manufacture? Nope.....Quality video though throughly enjoyed it. Glad it worked out well.
its research rather than luck. check youtube videos, blogs etc for people experiences and don't buy to good to be true prices. there are terrible companies that produce utter crap, then there are frames which might even be top name brands but have been rejected due to quality, then you get great frames which are Chinese own. so it's doing your research and don't pay the company directly, always go through Alibaba/aliexpress for protection. Same can be said for buying anything directly from china.
@@GlaucusBlue You know what you are talking about. Dengfu has been around for many years. Actually bought my analog hardtail four years ago. Surprised they are still still such a small company.
I believe your right. But I think the crucial factor is when western companies use parts made in the Far East, they are directly involved in the quality control. Just have a look at the European and Japanese Tech products that fill our homes. Many are made in China but with the QC overseen by the company they produce for. The same applies to Bikes, Guitars, Motorcycles etc. It’s not that China isn’t capable of producing quality goods. They obviously are! It’s just that most of the time they don’t have to because their goods are mostly designed for and sold to their less discriminating domestic market.
I was a bit worried Rob that you may be a bit hard on the CHEEB because it wasn't a 'sponsored' review. I am pleased that your assessment, as ever, was objective, fair, sober, no hyperbole or trash talk, and very informative. Well done Rob, I look forward to the next iteration of the CHEEB and who knows, I may go for my own (?mis) adventure!
Interesting with this “smooth power delivery”. My bbshd with 160Nm feels like a motorcycle :) I find myself struggling to keep the front wheel on the ground if I go full power :)
@@niius7663the m500 shown in the video is 48v. even with 52v the bbshd would be more powerfull. The m500 as way less amp. The m600 is closer but still less powerfull.
Being new to the world of e-bikes, I found this video incredibly informative with great footage and filming. I can't wait to see more of these videos with new updates products.I request you to make videos featuring recent updates on products within a $2,000 or $3,000 budget.
Paint are stunning, great job. I newer worried about Chinese carbon frame. When you pay good money to Chinese manufacturer then you can expect good quality. China and Thailand produce 90% carbon frames.
Dude! This is the best of the best! What's the fun of buying a bike already built?! And at half the price of other bikes that can do exactly the same?! Cmon! Can't get any better than this!
I lot of people always say that Made in China equals poor quality. However, that is not the case if you pay enough. Fun fact, Santa Cruz Chameleon Carbon frames are made in China.
That's because people are idiots. They expect stuff from China to be cheap and then complain about quality, but when you tell them to pay more, they give you weird looks.
Because when they buy goods made in China, they only pay $1 but they expect it has the same quality as what they pay $20 buying from other countries, otherwise they will say goods made in China have bad quality. Chinese products save the life cost for people around the whole world. Chinese products make people be able to afford to supporting their daily life. But for some of those people there is no word "appreciation" in their dictionary and philosophy.
The real test of the bike though is.... Will it withstand a day with Sam Pilgrim and some stairsets of doom! Excellent looking bike though but it's needing some livery to complement the paint job
Love the review and first video! Very inspiring... I placed an order last week with the Bafang M600. Let’s see how it keeps up with my other bikes! Btw, the colors and finish is just sick. This build will help me get familiar with all components and keep me busy this winter. Especially with COVID lockdown...! Thanks for sharing.
@@marioendrinal2345 Hi Mario, I've had issues with the electric cable connectors, you really need to push them into their sockets hard... Frame and finish are ok.
The bafang range is easily adjusted to your liking with a programming cable. Would be nice to see a proper head to head with a bit of tweaking, buying cheap often means you have to do the tunning and troubleshooting rather than the manufacture, which for us cheap skates is fine.
Hi. The M series (500, 600 and 620) are NOT user programable. The Bafang controller uses a proprietary CANBUS. Innotrace do make an aftermarket controller for the M620 that allows programing. This is very expensive though. They are working on a controller for the M600 as well but to be honest, I don't think the M600 needs it. I have 2 of the E10's with the M600 and I think Rob will see a noticeable increase in power.
@@brentmckenzie5808 I actually have the Innotech Archon X1 controller 1000w and it is a brilliant upgrade for a few reasons I highly recommend it, but the standard m620 can be programmed using the bbshd programing cable plugged into the display connection on the loom. Unless they have changed this on recent motors. I do not know about the m500 or m600 tbh but always assumed they were.
GREAT REVIEW. Please continue to ride this all season as much as possible. It would be nice for all of us if you could provide a final sanity check with the frame quality. Thanks for doing this great build!!!
Better with the m600 120nm, it can be boosted with a aftermarket controller to 2000w for off road use .watt wagons also has the e10 with the bafang ultra motor that has 160nm of tourqe and can also be upgraded to run 2000 plus watts also.
Can you run the M600 off an external controller like a Phaserunner? I have the BBSHD but it's too powerful for trails, although I could put it into a low power mode.
I'm doing the same thing with a welded aluminum frame. With the power these batteries and motors have, I'm not as worried about saving a few pounds as I am concerned about frame strength. Mine's a full suspension also - I'll post a video when I'm done.
Lovely bike. Great video. Get the frame tested by a carbon fibre repair technician. Pretty sure they can scan the quality of the carbon. Might make for an interesting video. 👍
Really, Rubenvor. Would be interested to see those results .. I am a factory acceptance auditor having worked in Germany and on Italian frames . Can you point me in the right direction so i can look over these results and provide a response .
@@steveroylance7857 with such job u should know more about this that any one else here. Search for Mark Ferguson, and then for the place where he took his frame to be tested. That guy who repairs frames and test them with ultra sound has cut in half a dozen of Chinese frames and compare them side by side with "branded" carbon frames. I can't seem to find that video.
@@rubenvor Thanks for the reply - will check that out. The main and significant issue is how the carbon fibre is aligned. The testing has to be designed so the testing specification accelerates the movement and strain within the fibres . Ultra sound is not a test that would provide a meaningful conclusion regarding the performance of the frame , unless there is a baseline and its a test repeated and stages over a defined period . Carbon frames have developed hugely, just need to be sure these frames are same . Personally I ride a carbon frame- want to know its going to get me home when I am out 30-40 miles from now where. I will check out Rubenvor - cheers for heads up . Personally I have never owned a specialised. I mention specialised because although they are a mega brand etc etc they were one of the forerunners in developing these frames and they have a history and have invested heavily and most of us now are reaping some of these rewards as the innovation trickles around the MTB world producing on the whole safe bikes.
This is why I subscribe too your channel Rob.... awesome build....you would think the Chinese would market such a bike as a direct buy....your still the best emtb reviewer , builder an honest nice guy on the planet.... fantastic channel
Hey Rob - I have the same build through luna cycle X1 with M600 with Ludicrous mode. You definitely feel the difference. It's been a beast on the trail and held up in the Nevada rocky desert trails. Go CHEEB GO. Too bad you can't upgrade the motor in UK? Still wondering why they restrict it. Have fun!
I purchased a 29er HT frame around 7 years ago from China after reading a lot of reviews. It's my commuter bike and also dry weather local woods bike and it's stood up to everything I've thrown at it. I've even done a weekend in Afan and not had any issues with it. My one bit of advice would be to go directly to the manufacturer rather than eBay etc. And do your research on the brands.
As I used to import Chinese ebikes myself, I have read the legislation. What is missing from this is the EN certification sticker, which is a legal requirement. For a DIY build it is unlikely to cause an issue, but would present issues of liability if you sell it on. The factory self certifies after testing and can provide this data to authorities. It's a small detail, but it is important as the EAPC legislation is an opt out of an ebike being a motor vehicle and the sticker is the proof.
Great video Rob. I ride a Frey with the m600 motor. You can adjust all the settings on the m500 motor.just need the cable and download software.you can then adjust to smooth delivery or punch. My Frey m600 complete bike came delivered around £3000 with high end parts.yari forks . magura mt5 4 pots and Shimano.and it destroys bikes twice the price and no building required. Something else you could perhaps review.
The frey has actually been allowed to compete in a recent enduro (in its own high power class). FYI I believe that your motor on the Frey is actually the Ultra M620 not the M600. But yeah your right I think all of them are programmable.
Hi. The M series (500, 600 and 620) are NOT user programable. The Bafang controller uses a proprietary CANBUS. Innotrace do make an aftermarket controller for the M620 that allows programing. This is very expensive though. They are working on a controller for the M600 as well but to be honest, I don't think the M600 needs it.
Last summer when you couldn't get any bikes I also looked at Dengfu and the others. In the end I was not brave enough. Very cool that you did that. Seems doable.
You said the frame is made by Dengfu. From what I know they also produce for a number of the name brands so the quality shouldn't be an issue. I had a Dengfu TT bike years ago and ever had any issues at all.
Great review Rob. I think you are right about self build, however I can say from personal experience, learning/building your own bike has great satisfaction in it when completed, but it’s not for the faint hearted. Echo the comments about time, trial, error, tears 😭 in that order 😀. BUT what a feeling when you have a unique bike on the trails!
Fantastic project, well done Rob. As an idea for an upcoming feature it would be neat to look into battery tech and the new 4680 batteries which will be the future. They’re not out just yet, but by my reckoning, each 80mm long 46mm diameter battery will store about 100watts of power. This could lead to very sleek frame designs and lends itself to a 5 or 600 watt main battery built into the frame with a very small and light booster battery, so like the Levo SL, but no power compromise and the potential to reduce weight and optimise weight distribution. Very nerdy I know.
Fair play Rob. As a rule of thumb, I try to stay clear of carbon as I'd be crying bucket loads of tears if I cracked a frame. But I'll give you props for testing the frame stiffness. I cant comment as to the discrepancy of the M500 motor in terms of its 95nm of torque but I can vouch on the M400 which has 80nm and the M620 (Ultra) with 160nm of torque. Perhaps it would be wise to experiment with different chainring sizes (I did). You've inspired me to bust out my builds so I might start shooting this weekend. Keep up the vids mate and I'll keep you and the guys and girls over EMTB Forums posted 🤙
People really need to lose this Chinese cheap frame stereotype, just trawl the mtb forums and you'll see hundreds of posts ftom recent years of bike frames from all the top manufacturers that have snapped, I snapped a Scott genius and an orange stage 6,
Brands like Scott give you actual warranty. They provide professional work, their bikes are made with a guarantee to last and if they don't, they provide warranty. Where as in China, you have the risk of forced labour, where people sit in a factory usually 12 hours a day and make these frames with the poorest materials. Making a carbon frame requires a lot of work, molding, layering and glueing, and it's not something someone can just do. Chinese usually don't give warranty and if they do it'll take them months to even receive the frame. It's very obvious why people think carbon chinese is terrible. i believe carbon should only be reserved for people who can afford it.
@@megane230f1 It was manufactured in China by professional workers. Export from China is the cheapest way to manufacture, but sketchy forced labour brands you see on AliExpress or possibly other brands are usually not that caring for their frames.
@@DoomerLoser alot of reputable Chinese companies do give you warranty. Frey for example have excellent after sales.and the bikes they build are superb. I have a m600 and it's superb.my haibike is now gathering dust. Don't be to judgemental. have a open mind and you mite just be surprised .
@@scottjameseaton5503 As I said, it all boils down to the risk of those other manufacturers who are enforced labourers. Almost everything we use is from China these days, and carbon frames are one of them. We're talking about cheap brands that are usually unheard of in the industry.
as well. if you split the motor and coat the internals with conformal compund, then at silicon to the gasgets, then it is sealed and fine. Also best use some foam tape around the battery edges to keep water out and it is fine.
I am planning on building a fat E-bike the same way, but i will put my Paradox Kinetics motor, it adds only 2.5 kg to the bike and 1500w with only throttle assist so you can have power when you want it. instant power. both your vidz Rob have been amazing help.
Thing with carbon is it's really strong until it isn't. A couple of sessions doesn't really prove anything. £4k may not be expensive for an E Bike, but it's a hell of a lot of money and I would suggest it's too much to risk for most people. Great series though and you did do a great job on the paint
It is common for china to do pre delivery tests and destruction tests , all im seeing is the major brands having to stop gouging the market now so the cheeb does not get a foot hold
@@CarkeekW the Chinese are capable of fantastic innovation and top world class engineering and build quality. Unfortunately they are also world leaders in cheap knock off's and fake products. It's virtually impossible for us in the west to tell which we're dealing with.
Hey mate. Love the build. I predict that it won't be long before you turn it into a frankenbike by upgrading the hell out of it! Cheapest frame with the most expensive parts.... All the best from Vienna Austria mate.
Did you check if you can ramp up the power delivery from the motor? My bafang has a setting on the advance settings to define a value for the acceleration ramp. Usually you go into the settings and then hold a button and tap the other 8 times to acces these settings. Look it up for your model.
"Its not far off from what I ride which is a specialized kenevo" Thank you for confirming every suspicion. Why would I spend 12 grand again? Listen, I dont even bat an eye up to about $6k. You can point to and see 6k worth of bike parts. Really great fork, groupset, wheelset, of course thats gonna rack up the cost. I get really pissed off though when the ebikes that I would actually like to buy, with spec I feel are actually good enough (and not like the spec of sub 1000 hardtails yet cost $3-5k). This video is amazing because it got me fired up about this. Im sorry but trek, specialized, all you guys talk out your ass about the R&D. This chinese company just showed you up. Oh yea there so much engineering involved, ooohhh its worth thousands over our competitors. No, it simply isnt. China is also screwing with the audiophile world right now. Im a big fan. Lets expose the markup and get some proper competition going. Bikes are taking off, now is the time to support the companies that make stuff I can both AFFORD AND WANT!!!
I bought my Cheeb fully setup for $3450. I added carbon wheels, coil shock, bars, pedals, magura m5, and better cassette and I am at $4500. Its a pro quality build now for half the price of a major brand and it rides just as well. Finally someone "officially" reviewed here and confirmed what thousands of us already knew, that big name brands are far overpriced. And none of them are coming with 840wh batteries.
I remember when K2 skis moved their production from Washington state to China. Everyone flipped out that they would be crap after moving. I used to break the Washington skis yearly (which was nice because I got new skis every year). Once they moved the production to China the quality went WAY UP. Never broke a Chinese pair ever. Just because something is made in China doesn't mean it's crap. Doesn't mean it isn't either, but the Chinese are more than capable of building a quality product (and for less). Totally legit to be concerned that this bike might break, but it's not a sure thing.
Hats off the giving this a go ! E-BALLS ! Great Project, excellent video ! Orgasmic Cinematography again, love the aspect ratio - Top job guys. Just for reference, how tall is Matt ??? Hopefully you can tune the motor on day and increase the equivalent of "acceleration response".
I imagine of all the chinese carbon frames. A typically overbuilt ebike frame is the best to go with. Usually its the cross country or roadbike frames as well as the full carbon forks (carbon steerer) that have most of the snapping issues. It still happens with enduro frames but that ebike frame looks pretty dang chunky.
Concerning the lack of punch, it may maybe rectified via a parameter update. I own a BBS01 36v 500w motor which was utterly punchy as soon as I were turning the pedals. I was pretty uncomfortable with the transmission fate caused by the raw violence of the motor on each activation. So I updated the engine parameters with a USB adapter costing 10€ and now it's behaviour is compliant with your comments about power delivery. Personnally, i prefer this behaviour as you do not feel the power delivery...it's clearly there and it's more natural while riding. Another thing I quite like with the Bafangs are the optionnal brakes (for mecanical and hydraulic) and shifter sensors that kill power when switching gears and/or braking... It add some safety and tansmission reliability..... so there's no hideous transmission cracks when shifting under load compared to "true" E-MTBs. I think you can add some on M5/m600 series motors as the electrical harness looks identical to the BBS units. All in all, Bafang motors are not a perfect solution, it requires some bike knowledge, have some flaws but I'm still impressed with the bang for buck ratio Concerning reliability, I have done more than 10k km with my unit without any maintenance and it still runs flawlessly, and replacement/upgrade parts are easily available. Your conclusion seems to me pretty spot on, I would just add that at the end, riding a proper bike made by your own hands opens a new step of pleasure and comptent while riding it... So I clearly won't recommend it either to everyone, but won't prohibit anyone to do it either if they know what they'll go through before engaging the money in the project. PS: your comments about the DEORE 5xxx series 10 speed is true, it's not as qualitative as XT/XTR,, nonetheless it's working flawlessly and it adds some chain resistance when using the CN-6090 chain with it compared to narrower 11/12speeds chains.
Cheap not equal to low quality, it's just labour is cheaper and actually, a lot of Chinese workers especially technicians could do a much better job than other countries same position, they just get paid less. And that's also related to China's economic strategy to holding its position in the manufacturing industry...To be honest, a lot of stuff made in the US or made in Canada has much lower qualities with an even higher price than Aliexpress.
It's not even the labor cost making it so much cheaper, as most big company's frames are made in similar overseas factories. The higher prices come from marketing, r&d, warranty, and a few other things but labor cost is roughly the same.
'Made in China' stereotype is getting old at this point. When there was this sudden rise of manufacturing industry in China long time ago, workers or even project managers were prone to make mistakes because they were still learning. Now after a couple of decades, they have become so good at making stuffs that they can grab lower grade raw material and make it as good as a high end stuff.
Problem with Chinese products is they often lie about the specifications. Like what he says about the motor, seems like it's nowhere close to 95Nm. Like chinese 9800mAh 18650 batteries that in reality are under 2000mAh. Judging by the fact that the battery seemed to last forever the motor is probably quite weak... especially since they probably lied about the battery capacity as well.
I had a easy motion neo jumper for a few seasons, it was okay but lacked power and range. the motor was in the hub. I recently bought the 1000w bafang conversion kit for about $1200 bucks and installed it on my old Specialized big hit. It was easy enough to install my self and it kicks but. No speed limits and includes a throttle. Very adjustable via the bafang program. Only drawback is the motor hangs down and you loose log hoping clearence and its heavy. But the specialized is so much better then the neo jumper it was well worth it.
Rob, I know that M600 is not UK public road legal but I still hope that you will find a time and place to test it and compare with other big brand motors. Thanks for that video, you inspired me and I have ordered an E10 frame - that will be a challenge-I have never built a bike before-actually all I know is how to patch a tube 🤣. Hours of YT tutorials are waiting for me🥲.
Rob, Its no 'surprise' the Chinese have improved the factory acceptance testing for the frames- the CCP have over the last few years ordered an improvement and the Bafang motor and the frame have been copied from blueprints from Taiwan and Germany. The Chinese dont invent anything they simply buy the rights . I suspect they wont ever lead on anything they follow which gives cheaper products. Lets put it this way, take all the other manufacturers and innovation away leaving only a Chinese company - you will never move forward . It is difficult to avoid buying Chinese but please dont lower standards .
Just found your channel. Great reviews I like how you get to the point. I really like your cheap project I can’t wait for number two to come out. I’m waiting because I want to buy a frame and I’m waiting to see what your second build is. I think the market for people building up their own frames is a lot bigger in the past few years. I’m also one of those guys who can’t afford nine grand on an E-bike. But I know how to turn a ranch and build bikes so I really want to do my own. You have given me the courage to go for it. Can’t wait to see cheap number to hurry up.!!! Ride on brother.
Yes exactly. They are all made in China but manufactured in the USA. In other words American and Canadian bike companies get their frames from China and stamp the made in the USA or Canada so they can triple the price. Not any more for me, I order right from China and it comes to my house!
After all that punishment, is there any way to run that frame through an x-ray to check for any stress cracks that may have started? Or to prove that its 100% fine?
Even more, if you consider, that they pay about 30-50% of the retail prices, because of the large masses, they buy for their whole model range at once...
If you buy the can bus programmer, you will notice that bafang power the motor way back. If you plug it in and adjust the settings, the m500 will easily give allot of kick.
4:20 The rear wheel is spinning a fair bit - doesn't that compromise the impression of torque? I have no skin in the game, I'm a pedaller but I've ridden a couple of full suspension ebikes for a day :)
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Cheers for ALL the new subscribers to my channel and for all the positive comments and feedback on the build video. I LOVED making this content! Thank you for watching! Huge thanks to Matt for absolutely sending the bike and helping test the frame. Hope you like this vid, and I look forward to the NEW V2 CHEEB!!!!
replace the m500 with the m620 an ABSOLUTE blast it has 160nm and a 1000w power sometimes hitting 1500
You are going to upload V2 in the next hour or so right!? Looking forward to it!
Very cool project, surprised by the result actually. Looks awesome!
Long term review, I feel your counting your eggs before the chicken laid.
Rob these videos with the cheeb build have been ace!! Looking forward to the ceeb 2
Cracking alternative approach to equipping yourself with an E-Bike. Your sourcing & build efforts have certainly rewarded you with a fun, capable steed. As ever, refreshing style and top drawer quality, production and content values. Looking forward to the inevitable upcoming tweak's. Keep them coming!
I'm a total novice and newbie to the world of ebikes and found this video really informative and excellent footage and filming. Look forward to more of your videos to come!
I've been riding a Dengfu carbon CX for 7 years now, its been down everything! In fact it won't die!
Amazing review, loved also the 1st episode.
I think the whole concept of DIY has a lot of added value in the era we live in, where you can order, mix and match nearly anything you want (global flat world...).
I would appreciate more videos of this type!!
I really think you are doing a great service bringing to us also the edge approach to emtbs. Keep up the good work 👍👍
Thanks zev, really appreciate the feedback! For sure I enjoy doing this also, definitely workshop and DIY more coming soon!
@@RobRidesEMTB does the price include vat and inbound tax etc? Here we need to pay 24% vat and perhaps 25% inbound tax from china.
Never thought I'd find a fellow flat earther here
"I TEST a Chinese EBIKE"
If only you knew that more than 90% of e-bikes on the market are actually Chinnese re-branded re-sellers.
My cube frame came with a chinese warranty that literally states the factory it was made in. I'm pretty sure cube wasn't supposed to send that along with it lmao. The frame is one of the older zeroblack series wich were way over 1000€ new when the came out. I think production cost around 300 with maybe a 150 extra for the paintjob.
yeah, true. But at least with a brand recognition there's some warranty, that is provided they actually have decent customer service
That’s the reason they all “look” the same.
Made in China by a brand name is better than Made in China by a no name. The Chinese love cutting corners and always build to the cheapest price. It isn't cheap if it doesn't last.
@@deanrwilson yea if you gonna buy something a bit more pricey don't be a cheapskate and go for a branded product
I have 2 of these exact bikes but with the M600 spec'd out with XT mech, 4 pot brakes and SR Suntour Durolux 170mm upfront and their Tri-air 155mm in the rear. The top of the line Suntour is great value for top performance so helps build this bike even cheaper without sacrificing performance. They were fully built up by Dengfu and arrived complete. Just check and torque all bolts. The frames are painted so you don't need to go as far as Rob did, although his paint job is epic. Rob will find plenty of punch with the M600. The motor body itself is very waterproof. The errors from wet riding are caused by water getting to the battery pins. The battery to frame connection is set low in the frame. I have added some extra waterproofing to help keep water away from these connections.
I've never even thought proper emtb DIY is possible can you please let me know what type of frame it is please, really interested. Regarding Suntour it's good advice, how'd do you find it comparing to fox or rockshox performance wise ?
How did you purchase them? Spec out the components and have Dengfu quote it?
How did you get these bikes??
@@pahanoks I used the Dengfu E10 frame and was one of the first to try out. I had the 2 bikes built in May last year. I ordered the Suntour Durolux front and Triair rear from Kunshan Brisky Sports Co., Ltd, a trader on Alibaba. They then delivered these to Dengfu for assembly. This suspension setup is great and the 36mm stations are nice and stiff with 170mm travel. Check out reviews online. My view is that they match up to Fox and Rockshox but at a much better price ( $US590 for the set).
@@jeffstroh3521 Researched online, checked out integrity of suppliers and then organised all online. Dengfu where great and when I found a Chinese supplier of Shimano XT gear, they arranged local purchase. Not sure that you can expect them to do this every time as they normally use SRAM gear. I set out all components with each priced on a schedule. They then assembled and sent me final pictures prior to seafreight shipping. All worked out great and my brother and I have done 1,000's of kms on trails around New Zealand. The same spec'd bike here in NZ would have cost twice the price, if you could even find stock.
As a mechanic I approve of the BAFANG motors. You should see their display for trade shows. For the price it’s pretty nice hard ware. Definitely get Bosch of E-Motion if you can. Mid drive only of course. As for the frame Chinese frames can be hit or miss. Sometimes they can feel nicer than much more expensive frames. Sometimes they are crap. Attention to detail is what you’re looking for. Obviously a lot of design went into this frame in the video. Of course you potentially have less customer service and support. If order one just send it to you local bike shop. They will build it for you and make sure it’s safe to ride and everything is set up properly.
That paint job is truly amazing - lovely bike.
Most people dont know yet but their A-brand carbon bike frames and rims are all produced at the same factories in China.
well this is compete rubbish
And most people dont know but only one or 2 diff models are actually made inhouse by those companies but shhhh... 🤫🤫
True
My carbon frame is made in Italy, just looked.
Rob: Showing comments about dangerous cracking chinese frames. Also Rob: So to help to test the frame I called in Matt... Now that's a true friend who shares his new toy before he even tries it !
This is the one everyone's been waiting for and i wasn't disappointed! awesome vid dude!
A video with Sam Pilgrim would be sick. A day with him would be the ultimate frame test :D
I love how you are in full Fox attire and Matt is just wearing his old jeans and a tracksuit jacket. Love this video!
I think for another video idea you could test the upgraded motor on the frame and compare the two. Lovely looking bike. I’m 6”3 and I’m wanting to get back into riding after having a big crash a few years ago
Love the ending.... going back for more punishment.... good stuff Rob, love the detail and honesty. Gives a great picture of what it takes and the risk and work it takes....
Best EMTB channel on the net, keep up the excellent content 👏
Cheers Paul cant wait for an amazing 2021 season riding!
And it's not even close
Not that cheap, but at least you have the sense of achievement that a build like this brings.
It's a very nice looking bike. Good work.
To be honest this bike in slow motion looks stiffer than most of the other "non-chinese" frames with big logo on them
So you just watched the 28 bikes bottoming out video too?
@@derekhobbs1102 pink bike, drop on flat
you're forgetting that that's not always a good thing
Flex can be a good thing. Trust me those big companies know what they are doing
TBH most of the big name bike frames are made in China anyway.
Again another supervideo really worth watching. The image and the sound and your commentaries are the best of the best. In Spanish we would say...'te lo has currado de maravilla'. Thanks, Rob, for your perfect job. Up our thumbs!!
Hey Rob. Manufacturers often tune the Motors for the expected use. Maybe you can get a Programming cable and tune the Motor to get more "punch" in the highest mode? would be nice to know if that is possible.
Congratulations on the build and the video! Both are excellent and I have really enjoyed watching the build and the testing. Thank you!!
"Total build cost inc. paint: £4050": nice bike, but I'm not sure that the video title "the CHEAPEST Chinese EBIKE" matches the reality ;)
I dunno, components on that probably cost half of it. You could drop the component level down to Pikes, Deore drive train etc, even go second hand and build all of that for hella cheaper.
And I think we were only interested in whether the frame would survive anyhow, lol.
The title is indeed misleading.
Yeah, it's really about the frame though
m.ruclips.net/video/VZHWi2Ou5U8/видео.html
my chinese ebike cost me £200...
Love these DIY videos dude. Typical diy videos are nowhere near this good in so far as video quality, editing, effort, testing and honesty. You really nailed it. Bet you’ll like the M600 heaps more, looking forward to the next one
I recon some of the best frames we all ride and love are from over there. The issue is that some factories have good standards and some don’t. Is it just luck to get a good one? I’m not sure. Would I be riding one without a good brands standards enforced into the manufacture? Nope.....Quality video though throughly enjoyed it. Glad it worked out well.
its research rather than luck. check youtube videos, blogs etc for people experiences and don't buy to good to be true prices. there are terrible companies that produce utter crap, then there are frames which might even be top name brands but have been rejected due to quality, then you get great frames which are Chinese own. so it's doing your research and don't pay the company directly, always go through Alibaba/aliexpress for protection. Same can be said for buying anything directly from china.
@@GlaucusBlue You know what you are talking about. Dengfu has been around for many years. Actually bought my analog hardtail four years ago. Surprised they are still still such a small company.
I believe your right. But I think the crucial factor is when western companies use parts made in the Far East, they are directly involved in the quality control. Just have a look at the European and Japanese Tech products that fill our homes. Many are made in China but with the QC overseen by the company they produce for. The same applies to Bikes, Guitars, Motorcycles etc. It’s not that China isn’t capable of producing quality goods. They obviously are! It’s just that most of the time they don’t have to because their goods are mostly designed for and sold to their less discriminating domestic market.
Not only bikes. Shimanos flagship fishingrod, the shimano lesath: made in china.
majority of mountain bikes are made in only 4 factories in taiwan, no mountain bikes you've every heard of will come from china.
I was a bit worried Rob that you may be a bit hard on the CHEEB because it wasn't a 'sponsored' review. I am pleased that your assessment, as ever, was objective, fair, sober, no hyperbole or trash talk, and very informative. Well done Rob, I look forward to the next iteration of the CHEEB and who knows, I may go for my own (?mis) adventure!
Interesting with this “smooth power delivery”. My bbshd with 160Nm feels like a motorcycle :) I find myself struggling to keep the front wheel on the ground if I go full power :)
Hes probably using low voltage battery
@@niius7663 just note the same motor at all
@@currymasterrace7153VRMinde must be using a higher voltage battery like 52v,so bbshd performs better
@@niius7663the m500 shown in the video is 48v. even with 52v the bbshd would be more powerfull. The m500 as way less amp. The m600 is closer but still less powerfull.
Thoughts on the bbs02 with a 48v 17.5ah?
Being new to the world of e-bikes, I found this video incredibly informative with great footage and filming. I can't wait to see more of these videos with new updates products.I request you to make videos featuring recent updates on products within a $2,000 or $3,000 budget.
i realy like the paint job you did on it :D
Me too! Took ages though!
@@RobRidesEMTB ya
Yeah! Looks so clean!
@@RobRidesEMTB Was a bit unsure about paint job, but does look amazing!
Pity that frame prices will be now 20% higher?
Paint are stunning, great job. I newer worried about Chinese carbon frame. When you pay good money to Chinese manufacturer then you can expect good quality. China and Thailand produce 90% carbon frames.
Dude! This is the best of the best!
What's the fun of buying a bike already built?!
And at half the price of other bikes that can do exactly the same?! Cmon! Can't get any better than this!
I lot of people always say that Made in China equals poor quality. However, that is not the case if you pay enough. Fun fact, Santa Cruz Chameleon Carbon frames are made in China.
That's because people are idiots. They expect stuff from China to be cheap and then complain about quality, but when you tell them to pay more, they give you weird looks.
Let's be honest most of the stuff we use on a day to day basis is made in China/Taiwan
Because when they buy goods made in China, they only pay $1 but they expect it has the same quality as what they pay $20 buying from other countries, otherwise they will say goods made in China have bad quality. Chinese products save the life cost for people around the whole world. Chinese products make people be able to afford to supporting their daily life. But for some of those people there is no word "appreciation" in their dictionary and philosophy.
You can change a ton of settings in the Bafang motor, if you want crazy punch, you can setup it up for it no problem.
The real test of the bike though is.... Will it withstand a day with Sam Pilgrim and some stairsets of doom!
Excellent looking bike though but it's needing some livery to complement the paint job
Today is gonna be Epic. This bike is the dream!
That wud be awesome
Love the review and first video! Very inspiring... I placed an order last week with the Bafang M600. Let’s see how it keeps up with my other bikes! Btw, the colors and finish is just sick. This build will help me get familiar with all components and keep me busy this winter. Especially with COVID lockdown...! Thanks for sharing.
Where do you order this bike? Thx
are you done and tested the bike you ordered? how is it?
@@marioendrinal2345 Hi Mario, I've had issues with the electric cable connectors, you really need to push them into their sockets hard... Frame and finish are ok.
The bafang range is easily adjusted to your liking with a programming cable. Would be nice to see a proper head to head with a bit of tweaking, buying cheap often means you have to do the tunning and troubleshooting rather than the manufacture, which for us cheap skates is fine.
Hi. The M series (500, 600 and 620) are NOT user programable. The Bafang controller uses a proprietary CANBUS. Innotrace do make an aftermarket controller for the M620 that allows programing. This is very expensive though. They are working on a controller for the M600 as well but to be honest, I don't think the M600 needs it. I have 2 of the E10's with the M600 and I think Rob will see a noticeable increase in power.
@@brentmckenzie5808 damn it, that's a shame, I thought they all were.
@@GlaucusBlue I have the M620 and it’s user programmable. Look up EggRider.
@@brentmckenzie5808 I actually have the Innotech Archon X1 controller 1000w and it is a brilliant upgrade for a few reasons I highly recommend it, but the standard m620 can be programmed using the bbshd programing cable plugged into the display connection on the loom. Unless they have changed this on recent motors.
I do not know about the m500 or m600 tbh but always assumed they were.
@@brentmckenzie5808 is the stock m600 smooth with power delivery and does it shut off when changing gears?
GREAT REVIEW. Please continue to ride this all season as much as possible. It would be nice for all of us if you could provide a final sanity check with the frame quality. Thanks for doing this great build!!!
Better with the m600 120nm, it can be boosted with a aftermarket controller to 2000w for off road use .watt wagons also has the e10 with the bafang ultra motor that has 160nm of tourqe and can also be upgraded to run 2000 plus watts also.
Can you run the M600 off an external controller like a Phaserunner? I have the BBSHD but it's too powerful for trails, although I could put it into a low power mode.
LUNA controlles works worse than stock one. You csn check reviews of them. Totaly disapointed.
I've been staring at Wattwagons for a couple months now. The upgrades are too expensive but I like the German controller.
Also, I like Wattwagons' E10 frame slightly better than Rob's. Check it out. It can hold a bottle.
I'm doing the same thing with a welded aluminum frame. With the power these batteries and motors have, I'm not as worried about saving a few pounds as I am concerned about frame strength. Mine's a full suspension also - I'll post a video when I'm done.
Lovely bike. Great video.
Get the frame tested by a carbon fibre repair technician. Pretty sure they can scan the quality of the carbon. Might make for an interesting video. 👍
That has already been done. But the results didn't get published because it was going to ruin the branded frames business.
@@rubenvor true story :D
Really, Rubenvor. Would be interested to see those results .. I am a factory acceptance auditor having worked in Germany and on Italian frames . Can you point me in the right direction so i can look over these results and provide a response .
@@steveroylance7857 with such job u should know more about this that any one else here.
Search for Mark Ferguson, and then for the place where he took his frame to be tested. That guy who repairs frames and test them with ultra sound has cut in half a dozen of Chinese frames and compare them side by side with "branded" carbon frames. I can't seem to find that video.
@@rubenvor Thanks for the reply - will check that out. The main and significant issue is how the carbon fibre is aligned. The testing has to be designed so the testing specification accelerates the movement and strain within the fibres . Ultra sound is not a test that would provide a meaningful conclusion regarding the performance of the frame , unless there is a baseline and its a test repeated and stages over a defined period . Carbon frames have developed hugely, just need to be sure these frames are same . Personally I ride a carbon frame- want to know its going to get me home when I am out 30-40 miles from now where. I will check out Rubenvor - cheers for heads up . Personally I have never owned a specialised. I mention specialised because although they are a mega brand etc etc they were one of the forerunners in developing these frames and they have a history and have invested heavily and most of us now are reaping some of these rewards as the innovation trickles around the MTB world producing on the whole safe bikes.
This is why I subscribe too your channel Rob.... awesome build....you would think the Chinese would market such a bike as a direct buy....your still the best emtb reviewer , builder an honest nice guy on the planet.... fantastic channel
Hey Rob - I have the same build through luna cycle X1 with M600 with Ludicrous mode. You definitely feel the difference. It's been a beast on the trail and held up in the Nevada rocky desert trails. Go CHEEB GO. Too bad you can't upgrade the motor in UK? Still wondering why they restrict it. Have fun!
Not gonna lie, the color of the bike its absolutly amazing! cheers from Chile
The production quality is insane. Wow.
You really nailed the video editing, very well done! Thanks for this very entertaining doc!
I purchased a 29er HT frame around 7 years ago from China after reading a lot of reviews. It's my commuter bike and also dry weather local woods bike and it's stood up to everything I've thrown at it. I've even done a weekend in Afan and not had any issues with it. My one bit of advice would be to go directly to the manufacturer rather than eBay etc. And do your research on the brands.
I don't even like ebikes - but i do like really well put together consumer friendly review channels. This is excellent!
What's not to like?
i have a bafang bafang bbs02 on commute bike and you can reprog with the software( Torque, assit level .... ) , is it possible on this motor ?
As I used to import Chinese ebikes myself, I have read the legislation. What is missing from this is the EN certification sticker, which is a legal requirement. For a DIY build it is unlikely to cause an issue, but would present issues of liability if you sell it on. The factory self certifies after testing and can provide this data to authorities. It's a small detail, but it is important as the EAPC legislation is an opt out of an ebike being a motor vehicle and the sticker is the proof.
Great video Rob.
I ride a Frey with the m600 motor.
You can adjust all the settings on the m500 motor.just need the cable and download software.you can then adjust to smooth delivery or punch.
My Frey m600 complete bike came delivered around £3000 with high end parts.yari forks . magura mt5 4 pots and Shimano.and it destroys bikes twice the price and no building required.
Something else you could perhaps review.
The frey has actually been allowed to compete in a recent enduro (in its own high power class).
FYI I believe that your motor on the Frey is actually the Ultra M620 not the M600. But yeah your right I think all of them are programmable.
@@tomwebber9936 the m600 bike has the m600 motor .I've got one.
The ex .cc.am have the 620
you can program the m500 with more amps, providing the "punch" your missing, and you can buy extension cables for your display and throttle
Hi. The M series (500, 600 and 620) are NOT user programable. The Bafang controller uses a proprietary CANBUS. Innotrace do make an aftermarket controller for the M620 that allows programing. This is very expensive though. They are working on a controller for the M600 as well but to be honest, I don't think the M600 needs it.
Last summer when you couldn't get any bikes I also looked at Dengfu and the others. In the end I was not brave enough. Very cool that you did that. Seems doable.
certainly I should have been not brave too...
I think your best and most subjective video to date and as you say “maybe on suitable for 5% to build” top man
You said the frame is made by Dengfu. From what I know they also produce for a number of the name brands so the quality shouldn't be an issue. I had a Dengfu TT bike years ago and ever had any issues at all.
Brilliant video. Thanks for the content. Your paint job on that bike is wonderful.
Another cracking video mate!
Glad you enjoyed it
Great review Rob. I think you are right about self build, however I can say from personal experience, learning/building your own bike has great satisfaction in it when completed, but it’s not for the faint hearted. Echo the comments about time, trial, error, tears 😭 in that order 😀. BUT what a feeling when you have a unique bike on the trails!
Fantastic project, well done Rob. As an idea for an upcoming feature it would be neat to look into battery tech and the new 4680 batteries which will be the future. They’re not out just yet, but by my reckoning, each 80mm long 46mm diameter battery will store about 100watts of power. This could lead to very sleek frame designs and lends itself to a 5 or 600 watt main battery built into the frame with a very small and light booster battery, so like the Levo SL, but no power compromise and the potential to reduce weight and optimise weight distribution. Very nerdy I know.
Fair play Rob. As a rule of thumb, I try to stay clear of carbon as I'd be crying bucket loads of tears if I cracked a frame. But I'll give you props for testing the frame stiffness. I cant comment as to the discrepancy of the M500 motor in terms of its 95nm of torque but I can vouch on the M400 which has 80nm and the M620 (Ultra) with 160nm of torque. Perhaps it would be wise to experiment with different chainring sizes (I did).
You've inspired me to bust out my builds so I might start shooting this weekend.
Keep up the vids mate and I'll keep you and the guys and girls over EMTB Forums posted 🤙
People really need to lose this Chinese cheap frame stereotype, just trawl the mtb forums and you'll see hundreds of posts ftom recent years of bike frames from all the top manufacturers that have snapped, I snapped a Scott genius and an orange stage 6,
Brands like Scott give you actual warranty. They provide professional work, their bikes are made with a guarantee to last and if they don't, they provide warranty. Where as in China, you have the risk of forced labour, where people sit in a factory usually 12 hours a day and make these frames with the poorest materials. Making a carbon frame requires a lot of work, molding, layering and glueing, and it's not something someone can just do. Chinese usually don't give warranty and if they do it'll take them months to even receive the frame. It's very obvious why people think carbon chinese is terrible. i believe carbon should only be reserved for people who can afford it.
its where my santa cruz hightower was built in china
@@megane230f1 It was manufactured in China by professional workers. Export from China is the cheapest way to manufacture, but sketchy forced labour brands you see on AliExpress or possibly other brands are usually not that caring for their frames.
@@DoomerLoser alot of reputable Chinese companies do give you warranty.
Frey for example have excellent after sales.and the bikes they build are superb.
I have a m600 and it's superb.my haibike is now gathering dust.
Don't be to judgemental. have a open mind and you mite just be surprised .
@@scottjameseaton5503 As I said, it all boils down to the risk of those other manufacturers who are enforced labourers. Almost everything we use is from China these days, and carbon frames are one of them. We're talking about cheap brands that are usually unheard of in the industry.
as well. if you split the motor and coat the internals with conformal compund, then at silicon to the gasgets, then it is sealed and fine. Also best use some foam tape around the battery edges to keep water out and it is fine.
So it’s just the frame, not the bike as you’ve sourced the parts yourself?
I am planning on building a fat E-bike the same way, but i will put my Paradox Kinetics motor, it adds only 2.5 kg to the bike and 1500w with only throttle assist so you can have power when you want it. instant power. both your vidz Rob have been amazing help.
Thing with carbon is it's really strong until it isn't. A couple of sessions doesn't really prove anything. £4k may not be expensive for an E Bike, but it's a hell of a lot of money and I would suggest it's too much to risk for most people. Great series though and you did do a great job on the paint
Exactly, and QC is the problem with these Chinese things. So this one may be fine, so may the next 8, but the 10th breaks someones face.
It is common for china to do pre delivery tests and destruction tests , all im seeing is the major brands having to stop gouging the market now so the cheeb does not get a foot hold
@@CarkeekW the Chinese are capable of fantastic innovation and top world class engineering and build quality. Unfortunately they are also world leaders in cheap knock off's and fake products. It's virtually impossible for us in the west to tell which we're dealing with.
Great job rob i am looking forward to Cheeb V2, keep em comming.
OMG, the color Rob! Looks YT Decoy'ish.
Exactly what I was thinking
Klein Quantum
Hey mate. Love the build. I predict that it won't be long before you turn it into a frankenbike by upgrading the hell out of it! Cheapest frame with the most expensive parts.... All the best from Vienna Austria mate.
The Cheeb LOL I love the name :D
Where you buy?
Tone loc smokin cheeb
Did you check if you can ramp up the power delivery from the motor? My bafang has a setting on the advance settings to define a value for the acceleration ramp. Usually you go into the settings and then hold a button and tap the other 8 times to acces these settings. Look it up for your model.
"Its not far off from what I ride which is a specialized kenevo" Thank you for confirming every suspicion. Why would I spend 12 grand again? Listen, I dont even bat an eye up to about $6k. You can point to and see 6k worth of bike parts. Really great fork, groupset, wheelset, of course thats gonna rack up the cost. I get really pissed off though when the ebikes that I would actually like to buy, with spec I feel are actually good enough (and not like the spec of sub 1000 hardtails yet cost $3-5k). This video is amazing because it got me fired up about this. Im sorry but trek, specialized, all you guys talk out your ass about the R&D. This chinese company just showed you up. Oh yea there so much engineering involved, ooohhh its worth thousands over our competitors. No, it simply isnt. China is also screwing with the audiophile world right now. Im a big fan. Lets expose the markup and get some proper competition going. Bikes are taking off, now is the time to support the companies that make stuff I can both AFFORD AND WANT!!!
I bought my Cheeb fully setup for $3450. I added carbon wheels, coil shock, bars, pedals, magura m5, and better cassette and I am at $4500. Its a pro quality build now for half the price of a major brand and it rides just as well. Finally someone "officially" reviewed here and confirmed what thousands of us already knew, that big name brands are far overpriced. And none of them are coming with 840wh batteries.
@@phattysnow where did you buy bud?
Look at Frey ebike good Chinese company affordable bikes good spec warranty good option for those who cant build
@@mav5204 thank you I'll give them a look
@@phattysnow What wheelset did you get?
Great job, Rob! Very impressive project.
I remember when K2 skis moved their production from Washington state to China. Everyone flipped out that they would be crap after moving. I used to break the Washington skis yearly (which was nice because I got new skis every year). Once they moved the production to China the quality went WAY UP. Never broke a Chinese pair ever. Just because something is made in China doesn't mean it's crap. Doesn't mean it isn't either, but the Chinese are more than capable of building a quality product (and for less). Totally legit to be concerned that this bike might break, but it's not a sure thing.
What a video Rob. Your production is sublime and congrats on building this beauty!
Those b-roll shots are pure sex! Excellent camerawork, and fair review!
Excellent review Rob , and glad to see both you and the bike are still in one piece 👍.
Hats off the giving this a go ! E-BALLS ! Great Project, excellent video ! Orgasmic Cinematography again, love the aspect ratio - Top job guys. Just for reference, how tall is Matt ??? Hopefully you can tune the motor on day and increase the equivalent of "acceleration response".
I imagine of all the chinese carbon frames. A typically overbuilt ebike frame is the best to go with. Usually its the cross country or roadbike frames as well as the full carbon forks (carbon steerer) that have most of the snapping issues. It still happens with enduro frames but that ebike frame looks pretty dang chunky.
My gf said the bike looks like a girl's bike, but I'd love to have one in a color like this.
Ai u hav a ukfiln 👷🏾♀️👴🏻👇
that's what I said painted a for a day
Concerning the lack of punch, it may maybe rectified via a parameter update. I own a BBS01 36v 500w motor which was utterly punchy as soon as I were turning the pedals.
I was pretty uncomfortable with the transmission fate caused by the raw violence of the motor on each activation.
So I updated the engine parameters with a USB adapter costing 10€ and now it's behaviour is compliant with your comments about power delivery.
Personnally, i prefer this behaviour as you do not feel the power delivery...it's clearly there and it's more natural while riding.
Another thing I quite like with the Bafangs are the optionnal brakes (for mecanical and hydraulic) and shifter sensors that kill power when switching gears and/or braking... It add some safety and tansmission reliability..... so there's no hideous transmission cracks when shifting under load compared to "true" E-MTBs. I think you can add some on M5/m600 series motors as the electrical harness looks identical to the BBS units.
All in all, Bafang motors are not a perfect solution, it requires some bike knowledge, have some flaws but I'm still impressed with the bang for buck ratio
Concerning reliability, I have done more than 10k km with my unit without any maintenance and it still runs flawlessly, and replacement/upgrade parts are easily available.
Your conclusion seems to me pretty spot on, I would just add that at the end, riding a proper bike made by your own hands opens a new step of pleasure and comptent while riding it... So I clearly won't recommend it either to everyone, but won't prohibit anyone to do it either if they know what they'll go through before engaging the money in the project.
PS: your comments about the DEORE 5xxx series 10 speed is true, it's not as qualitative as XT/XTR,, nonetheless it's working flawlessly and it adds some chain resistance when using the CN-6090 chain with it compared to narrower 11/12speeds chains.
Cheap not equal to low quality, it's just labour is cheaper and actually, a lot of Chinese workers especially technicians could do a much better job than other countries same position, they just get paid less. And that's also related to China's economic strategy to holding its position in the manufacturing industry...To be honest, a lot of stuff made in the US or made in Canada has much lower qualities with an even higher price than Aliexpress.
Dito! Wise words man!
It's not even the labor cost making it so much cheaper, as most big company's frames are made in similar overseas factories. The higher prices come from marketing, r&d, warranty, and a few other things but labor cost is roughly the same.
@@Nythos_ you mean a Chinese worker makes the same as a US worker?
@@rubenvor no if you have a US made frame then the labour cost is a major factor. But most usa company's frame are made overseas
Awesome review ! Add the Bafang ultra motor with 160nm torque
Can I get one in aluminum, titanium or steel? Don’t want carbon ever
Walty is supposed to be a good custom titanium frame maker. I think Trace Velo or China Cycling got one.
Omg the video quality is rlly good
Cheeb V2 does that mean you’re doing a giveaway for V1?!
No way he's giving that away. Too much time and money involved with the build.
The paint is spectacular! Nice job. Very entertaining series.
'Made in China' stereotype is getting old at this point. When there was this sudden rise of manufacturing industry in China long time ago, workers or even project managers were prone to make mistakes because they were still learning. Now after a couple of decades, they have become so good at making stuffs that they can grab lower grade raw material and make it as good as a high end stuff.
Problem with Chinese products is they often lie about the specifications. Like what he says about the motor, seems like it's nowhere close to 95Nm. Like chinese 9800mAh 18650 batteries that in reality are under 2000mAh. Judging by the fact that the battery seemed to last forever the motor is probably quite weak... especially since they probably lied about the battery capacity as well.
I had a easy motion neo jumper for a few seasons, it was okay but lacked power and range. the motor was in the hub.
I recently bought the 1000w bafang conversion kit for about $1200 bucks and installed it on my old Specialized big hit.
It was easy enough to install my self and it kicks but. No speed limits and includes a throttle. Very adjustable via the bafang program.
Only drawback is the motor hangs down and you loose log hoping clearence and its heavy. But the specialized is so much better then the neo jumper it was well worth it.
Little do these people know..........that the carbon frames from their trusted brands are made in China.......😉
yeah, but with western world quality standart and strict quality check... something else is chinese copied shit with chinese owners..
Some of them even made by DengFu or whoever makes this frame.
Rob, I know that M600 is not UK public road legal but I still hope that you will find a time and place to test it and compare with other big brand motors. Thanks for that video, you inspired me and I have ordered an E10 frame - that will be a challenge-I have never built a bike before-actually all I know is how to patch a tube 🤣. Hours of YT tutorials are waiting for me🥲.
here in brazil, everybody ride chinesse hardtail bikes, its re branded product. Also, sometimes that bikes get broken, but it is kinda strong
That paint job, at least through RUclips, looks gorgeous. I wouldn't have the patience for it.
Rob, Its no 'surprise' the Chinese have improved the factory acceptance testing for the frames- the CCP have over the last few years ordered an improvement and the Bafang motor and the frame have been copied from blueprints from Taiwan and Germany. The Chinese dont invent anything they simply buy the rights . I suspect they wont ever lead on anything they follow which gives cheaper products. Lets put it this way, take all the other manufacturers and innovation away leaving only a Chinese company - you will never move forward . It is difficult to avoid buying Chinese but please dont lower standards .
but is it super plush or awesomely sublime ? i love E M B technical talk.
Clickbait titles show your true colours.
Just found your channel. Great reviews I like how you get to the point. I really like your cheap project I can’t wait for number two to come out. I’m waiting because I want to buy a frame and I’m waiting to see what your second build is. I think the market for people building up their own frames is a lot bigger in the past few years. I’m also one of those guys who can’t afford nine grand on an E-bike. But I know how to turn a ranch and build bikes so I really want to do my own. You have given me the courage to go for it. Can’t wait to see cheap number to hurry up.!!! Ride on brother.
So technically, everybody has been getting ripped off on western name brand bikes?
Yes exactly. They are all made in China but manufactured in the USA. In other words American and Canadian bike companies get their frames from China and stamp the made in the USA or Canada so they can triple the price. Not any more for me, I order right from China and it comes to my house!
@@rothadrian1042 I will get my stuff off Alibaba. Too many ripoff companies coming from the name brands that actually dont make it in the first place.
After all that punishment, is there any way to run that frame through an x-ray to check for any stress cracks that may have started? Or to prove that its 100% fine?
Shows how overpriced ebikes from the main manufacturers are doesn't it!
Even more, if you consider, that they pay about 30-50% of the retail prices, because of the large masses, they buy for their whole model range at once...
@@e_mtb oh totally!
If you buy the can bus programmer, you will notice that bafang power the motor way back. If you plug it in and adjust the settings, the m500 will easily give allot of kick.
You should be boycotting anything made in China. We all should.
4:20 The rear wheel is spinning a fair bit - doesn't that compromise the impression of torque? I have no skin in the game, I'm a pedaller but I've ridden a couple of full suspension ebikes for a day :)