I suppose the first season of the show jumps around so much that they thought the TV audience would need to start off with a main character that would act as throughline (Rhaenyra). The main thing they wanted from this scene was to show the uphill battle in store for Rhaenyra that Rhaenys could not overcome.
That is actually brilliant on Jaehaerys' part. Viserys would have had the Iron Throne anyway after the king's death and if he had rejected the succesion, there would be a war. Old man solved everything with a fucking vote.
@@confused4971 to be fair... it's not like Daemon was the most popular and accepted member of the family. The simple fact there even was a discussion despite the precedent said a lot.
@@maxi1ification even if daemon is hated, who else is there to challenge his claim ? (not considering viserys's son, and by that point daemon would just be replaced with viserys's son)
@@confused4971 actually to be fair he didn't just do it to punish Daemon or because he was scared his brother would kill him. He just knew his brother was too reckless to be King and would possibly make many ruinous decisions leaving the realm at war with itself as Maegor once did.
Would really love to watch a series completely about Jaehaerys that centers around his entire life. He was the best king Westeros ever had and his wife Alysanne was the best queen. So many interesting things happened in his time including the reign of Maegor the Cruel and the Poor Fellow rebellion, Alysanne's tour of the North and her dragon's refusal to fly past the Wall, Princess Aerea's disappearance with Balerion and her return from Valyria with a Giger-like infestation of horrors in her body, etc
@@hrishabkumarsharma1355 it was largely peaceful during his reign but there were wars and battles, but they were smaller. There was however tonnes of politicking which is when the original series was at it's best. Plus the fight against the faith militant and Jaehaerys and his fight against Maegor was hella bloody, could do a mini series of him gaining his throne then fighting to keep it together. It would set up HoTD as a pre-sequel... but If the rumours of a conquest series is true then we would see it anyways as Jaehaerys is the one who knit the real together after Aegon conquered it (and maegor bled it) so itd be the end of that series
@@jakarhess7129 Probably a series about the Conquest would end up with Jaehaerys being crowned king at 14 and that's all. We wont be seeing much of his reign cause not much happens and its far between. It is adaptable if we run up of storylines to adapt but there are more interesting things to adapt before than Jaehaerys reign. I would love everything to be adapted? Yes, but from a comercial point of view, the Conquest previous to his reign, the Blackfyre Rebellions, etc... are better adaptable material.
Fun fact, jahaerys when he sentenced a man to become a cripple he instead opted for a trial by combat and demanded which old man will fight him. Jahaerys who was turning 50 rather then naming a sworn sword to fight on his behalf decided to fight them himself and won
Earlier in Fire and Blood, a younger Jaeherys had fought a trial by combat himself. The guy who challenged the Old King must've forgotten that either side can name a champion in a trial by combat, whereas Jaeherys was FAR from stupid.
Originally Rhaenys was not even considered but her son Leanor Jaeherys great grandchild and Viserys.Rhaenys was passed as heir when her uncle took title of heir when her father Crowned Prince died that is why she is called Queen who never was because she was never even considered
He knows he his only delaying war within his own house as the other noble houses want to share the dragons with the Royal Family but that is not how Dragon ladies and lord work.
@@alioneal8711exactly. What did he do exactly to secure her position? He named her heir and put a huge burden on her shoulders that he didn't properly prepare her for, then left her vulnerable. Apart from him standing up for her son's claim as Lord of the Tides, and settling some arguments, there was nothing more done to shut people up and secure her position.
@@alioneal8711 yeah this is it. The show likes to present him keeping Rhaenyra the heir because of the prince that was promised prophecy. But even using that reasoning it still reeks of arrogance.
@@SilvX610exactly the issue isn't with her being a woman at all as we seen she was actually widely accepted and people choose death than betray her, however viserys should've made it a law so whatever alicent said wouldn't have held any strength at all
As much as I love Rhaenys, I think her Queenship would've caused problems of it's own. I sincerely doubt that the Targaryens would want to lose their name in the crown and I strongly doubt the Velaryons would just let it go had Laenor maintained the Targaryen name.
I feel like that would be part of the reason, on top of all of those things it would then set a precedent that elder daughters of minor and major houses now had legitimacy to their families seats. And the men in power and heirs did not want that to happen.
This has happend before in westerosi history, you don't loose the name you change it to the seat you take. House Lannister comes from the female line because one king didn't have a son, so his son in law changed his last name to Lannister upon marriage. In asoiaf we also meet Harry the heir, who's heir to the Eerie after Robert Arryn who'd take on the name Arryn if he succeded him.
Rhaenys being considered is a show only thing it was between Laenor and Viserys. Apparently Viserys won overwhelmingly despite Laenor/Rhaenys having house velaryon, celtigar,Dustin,Manderly,Blackwood,Stark, and Baratheon support which makes you wonder how the voting was actually done
Jaehaerys gave the chance to all the lords of Westeros a chance to choose their new ruler, not only for the highest houses like Starks and Baratheons but for the lowest houses. That is how the voting was made
No it doesn't. There are over 600 houses in Westeros. Just because Rhaenys had 10 houses supporting her doesn't mean she was going to win. And there's nothing to say that vassal lords have to vote the same as their liege. The support of House Stark is worth just as much as house Corbray since all their votes are equal.
@@matthewhart9610 Those 10 houses rule over many, many smaller houses. House Stark and Baratheon specifically. While their vassals could have differing opinions, they typically follow what their liege supports.
@@princess7jasmineand what about the other houses, lannisters, tyrell’s, arryns, greyjoys and martells?? those are great houses too all are wardens of other houses
@@captainpetrson5812 The Arryns were on Team Black too and a few other Vale houses by extension. Dorne wasn't under the Iron Throne at this time and didn't really fully take a side as far as I know. The Tyrells took no side as well and House Lannister was Team Green. I also don't know about Greyjoy, but I THINK they were Team Black as well just to raid the Westerlands. Regardless, I don't see how your point is supposed to be an argument against mine, I only mentioned a few houses as an example, but it obviously applies to others too. But keep in mind, not every region/great house are equal in power. The Tyrells are the largest suppliers of food to Westeros, having them on your side tips the scales heavily even if you have 2-3 other great houses on your side.
I would like to see a series about Jaehaerys rule since he was the longest king on iron throne for 55yrs and his dragon Vermithor a lot of history there
Something the Tv didn’t cover was that Jaehaerys and Alysanne second child Daenerys (the first died short after child birth) was a girl and a rift between the two that lasted years formed over the oldest child being past over as heir for being a girl. It was as issue with succession that kept coming up and each ruled kind of just keep kicking the can down the line.
And the couple also had a GREAT disagreement about passing the throne to Viserys instead of Rhaenys even though Rhaenys was the daughter of the original heir (Aemon her father.) Alysanne was angry to Jaeherys for dismissing Rhaenys just becuse she's a woman. They only made up because of Maegelle after two years of not talking with each other. 😭
Choosing a Velaryon means literally ending the Targaryen line to put the Velaryon dynasty in charge. Of course it was a lost cause for Rhaenys and Laenor.
Not really. In the show, Corlys and Viserys agreed that any children they had would take the Targaryen name when they took the throne. That seems to be the norm in Westeros for whenever a ruling lady leads a household. So, for instance, had Daemon and Rhea Royce had kids, at least the heir would have taken the Royce name.
@@jde-jj1lu Yes, it would have. The child would have had Royce blood, lived in Runestone, and had the Royce name. Nothing could make them more of a Royce.
The maesters can totally be trusted not to fudge the number from the vote Their motives totally aren’t compromised by their allegiance to House Hightower
My fcking gods jaehaerys had way too many fcking kids dude. I realized viserys and rhaenys are his grandchildren. This bloodline got me confused. Jaehaerys in this case his son aemon had rhaenys and his other son baelon had viserys….bruh took me a while to figure this sht out
The king makes the laws and rules you didn’t see Dorne Having this problem if they had more of a society like Dorne, it doesn’t matter your gender. It’s whoever is first born.
Rhaenys trust me you wouldn't want it anyway, the iron throne is always surrounded by drama backstabbers war discourse murder torture etc etc (and the etc is worse)
I'm not upset that a woman despite being older got passed over. It would've been the right decision if it truly preserved peace or if the heir wasnt deserving. But in this Rhaenys was not only before Viserys in the list of children, she was wiser and a graceful person. In her heart she was clearly disappointed on being passed over but she never showed any frustration. And she was married to the head of house Velaryon, a powerful house. Most notably, Targaryens already did things that were not acceptable in the eyes of the common folk. Like marrying inside the family.
Jahaerys was a wise king. Even though I feel Aegon I was the best but Jahaerys comes second for me. He wasnt even as sexist as others of that time as he respected his wife and gave her place in his court. And Jahaerys was brave but at that old age he was probably tired of conflicts and wanted to let the court handle the succession thing. Maybe he also had a soft spot for Baelon and hence he preferred his children. The common folk dont really care who sits the throne, the lords do. But the Targaryens had dragons. Even though the Targs wouldnt have wanted unnecessary conflict, neither would the other lords. I really think Jahaerys just wanted to get done with this entire thing and wanted the throne to get Baelon's children.
And she shouldn't have. The King was just! The King made piece for the common folk! The King left his Throne on a pile of Gold! Everyone after him effed it all up!
The atrocities started because of the greens. And the blacks didnt want to sit back and let the greens usurp the throne. If Rhaenys was to become queen Viserys wouldnt have gone to war. The reason Jahaerys named Viserys heir is because after Aemon died, he named Baelon heir cuz he liked Baelon. Hence instead of passing through Rhaenys and her children he let it pass through Baelon's line.
@winter4053😂😂😂 daemon was working overtime building an army to fight for his brother's cause if laenor was chosen war would have followed. And make no mistake if it was jaehaerys in place of viserys he would never choose rhaenyra over aegon. It was viserys decision and daemon ambition and superiority complex that led to this destruction.
@@ratikantrout1865 😂😂😂you are wrongly putting the entire blame of the war beginning on Viserys and Daemon. Both Blacks and Greens were responsible for the destruction this was but it is undeniable that the Greens started this whole fiasco. Viserys just gave them an opportunity to make a claim because of male primogeniture. Don't forget that there were people who declared for Rhaenyra and fought for her even after her death. It just makes it clear that though it would be met with disdain from many, Rhaenyra would still be accepted as the Queen had the Greens not crowned Aegon, taken control of the Capital and Court and started the war. The Greens mainly recieved support from people who thought they could be closer to the crown through Aegon as King than Rhaenyra. And knowing this Otto stacked the court with green supporters. Towards the end of the conflict, its possible Aegon himself got betrayed by his courtmen who now tried to put a younger and more easily controllable Aegon (Rhaenyra's son) on the throne.
I wasnt aware Daemon was preparing for war if Laenor was named, in which case it was better to name Viserys. Jahaerys didnt want to give anyone an opportunity to create unrest hence he wouldnt create a situation where two people may have a claim, something Viserys did. And he and the blacks carelessly allowed the Greens to take control of the court and create further opposition. But even so, it's more the fault of the person who seized that opportunity to start a terrible war (otto) than the person who's judgment created a vacancy for someone to grab power (Viserys). If you dont realize that then mate, you are too heavily biased towards the Greens. Both Aegon and Rhaenyra were terrible but while Rhaenyra also went after the throne for greed of power, she was still fulfilling her father, her king's wishes. The Greens were only being selfish. Do you think they actually cared about laws and holiness? Or did the Hightowers want to install their grandchild as King? The common folk dont give a sh about who sits on the throne like Jorah said. They only care about a good rain, good health and good harvest which they lost out on because of a war Otto started. And his own grandchildren suffered greatly too.
@@winter4053 you say I am biased towards the green but I only blamed viserys and daemon. And with your second comment you seem to be team black. Daemon chose his niece over his nephews who were also his blood from day 1 because aegon just by being born stood in his way to the throne. Otto hightower and daemon are both second sons who stood to inherit nothing. They both found a way to become significant. One can even say otto is more noble than daemon. Not once has otto tried to usurp his brother or his children's inheritance. Even if by some miracle aegon aemond daeron all three brothers who have a better claim than rhaenyra and her brood decided to let her be Queen. How long before someone questions the legitimacy of her children? People may not say anything in public for fear of death but the whisper will follow her sons. How many people can she punish, how many mouths can she stop from wagging? Eventually she will be forced to kill her half brothers and even if she didn't daemon certainly would. He was not a half measure guy. The greens had no choice but to pursue the course of war, even outnumbered.
People in the comments have 2 things very wrong: 1. Rhaenys and Rhaenyra's children would not have Velaryon names as many think. They would be called Targaryens. 2. The vote was actually between Viserys and Laenor, both kids. Here it makes sense for Viserys to be named heir as his father Baelon was the heir after Rhaenys' father. This doesnt necessarily set a rule that the throne cannot be passed down through women.
Jaehaerys Died aged 69 I think and if he had the vitality of Maester Aemon and died aged 101 I doubt Alicent would have become queen he would have married Rhaenrya and Daemon
I'm not sure. He definitely would have married off Rhaenyra. But Jaeherys had little patience for trouble makers in the family, and Daemon is the King of them I think he likely would have stripped him of his titles and sent him off to Essos.
Yeah, the Targaryens were lucky before this point. Prior to the deaths of both Princes of Dragonstone, Aemon and Baelon, the dynasty had had a mini-Capetian miracle, or every king had either no children or a son by which they could be succeeded. There really hadn’t been a situation where even if male-preference primogeniture had been in force, a woman would not have been first in line (and that includes the transition from Maegor I to Aenys I), until now.
People forget how maegar took the iron throne . And how jaherys did . Iron throne belongs to who can take it . Not because some tiny lord said soo . Dance would happen anyway . Because with dragons the armies are not so important . Aegon took 6 kungdoms only with 10k men and three dragons . If there was voting aegon would win . Because he is male his children are his . And hand of the king would bribe someone . It wouldn't stopped daemon and raynyra though . They had more dragons . And still had support .
I’m still a big believer even to this day that the Curse of Harrenhall and that the Great Council of 101 at Harrenhal itself set things in motion the Dance of the Dragons and the eventual downfall of House Targaryen. no one noticed it, but i think they were cursed.
The civil war but mainly because aegon witnessed the dance of dragons and his mothers death. He had no interest in dragons after the civil war and stopped breeding them. The few the dragon keepers did try to breed were small and sickly. I haven't read the book in a long time but basically that's why they died out. Edit: the aegon I'm talking about was rhaenys son aegon not alicent.
Anyone find it weird how he had 14 kids and they predeceased him? I have a theory that the faith and maesters were helping the downfall of the Targaryen’s and dragons. May explain why poor Aemma had issues having kids, how Rhaenys only had the twins etc
Ever seen the videos about the Grand Maester Conspiracy? Check them out, the maesters have long planned the fall of house Targaryen, probably since Aegon conquered Westeros
Only if you don't consider how they died. Aegon, Gaemon and Valerion all died stillborn/infancy. Gael committed suicide, Maegelle caught greyscale, and Daenerys died of the shivers. Daella and Alyssa died in childbirth, and Viserra died in what amounted to a drunk driving incident. That just leaves Aemon (who got a crossbow bolt in the throat whilst fighting on Tarth), and Baelon who died of appendicitis. It's hardly suspicious circumstances.
@@Pinoyslayer8888bro told his horse “gallop as fast as the wind, leave not a leaf behind in thy trails and guide me to thine home so I can slumber thou drink away” only to fall face first into a tree 😂😂 making ts up btw
If Viserys held a vote between Daemon and Rhaenyra then Rhaenyra probably wouldve been elected as heir despite being a woman due to the rogue nature of Daemon looking problematic to the other lords.
dude is bad king, nice person but bad king, shouldn’t name female as rulers in old tradition when there is male in succession, not to mention rhaenyra have bastard sons, if she become queen those bastard will become first in line of succession, it is shame in the old way.
it was still called the 7 kingdoms ........ when dorne was taken over they simply stoped countong the riverlands as a kingdom so the number remained 7 ......... technically speaking ther are 10 Kingdoms in the end ......... the typical 7, the riverlands, the Claw and Dragonstone
It was set in the Council aswell that Male lines would prevail over female lines. Viserys went against this council and put her daughter on the throne causing the riff with his male son that ended in a war.
That's not quite true. The greens certainly looked at the Great Council and argued that the precedent was set that no woman could inherit, but the council didn't actually say that. All the council said was that Viserys should be king over Rhaenys and her seven-year-old son, Laenor (who was the claimant they were arguing over in the book). But there are plenty of other precedents that would argue against that. The thing about succession is that it is a very nebulous concept. Ultimately, it comes back to claims and who has the "stronger" claim is often a matter of opinion. Most would agree that a legitimate first-born son has the strongest claim, but most would also agree that a king/lord can name whoever they want as their heir. So, in the case where the Lord of Winterfell disinherits his eldest son and names his second son his heir, who has the stronger claim is up for debate. Keep in mind, everyone agreed that Viserys had the right to name Rhaenyra his heir; that's why Otto suggested it and no one fought against it. If the Council had really said, "No, Girls can't inherit anything," then someone would have absolutely protested when Viserys asked them to swear fealty to her. Now, if asked, most would agree that Aegon has a very strong claim, that is true. However, most would also agree that Viserys has the right to name whoever he wants his heir. If her were to have named Aemond his heir, no one would have questioned it because that is the king's right; he can choose any of his children to be his heir. The reason that Rhaenyra was facing trouble was because the greens want the throne for themselves and see her gender as cause to steal it. That doesn't mean that she didn't have a claim. Nor does it mean she is not the rightful heir. Succession is complicated, but that just makes the greens' actions even worse, because the onus for rebellion was on them (we can argue about the precedents all we want, but if Otto and Alicent hadn't staged a coup, their would have been no war; they were the ones that chose a course that was clearly going to lead to violence).
@@seanp2871 They chose the course that mean House Targaryen would live on thanks to the true blood male heir inheriting the throne and continuing the blood line by siring more sons. Because thats actually how a bloodline doesnt cease to exist.
If the passing on of blood was what really mattered, female lines would've been preferred. Paternity can always be questioned but maternity isn't. It is the best and most fool-proof way to proceed and make sure the bloodline is being passed on. But it seems that the world of HOTD also followed what Engels mentioned in the Origin of the Family, where private property and ownership is tied to the development of a patriarchal state. Princess Rhaenys' Targaryen blood is undermined because she is a married woman and by status quo took upon her husband's name. It supposedly is only a name and what constitutes her lineage is far complex than what a couple of letters can capture, but the name is what allows someone to belong in that society. Traditionally, the privilege of being able to give your name to someone stems from males having more chances of defending their property, the extreme of this being shown in how wives used to be (unfortunately still are in some parts of the world) treated as properties of their husbands, BUT if a woman has a dragon that logic totally must definitely be thrown out the window.
This is from an appendix, *"It was held at the enormous, half-ruined castle Harrenhal because it was the only location big enough to fit such a large and unprecedented gathering of all the lords in Westeros."*
well in the books Harrenhall wasn´t in ruins ...... it was just damaged, with the walls twisting and bing bend and larg parts of it being inhabitat by bats only ....... Harrenhal was beyound hugh the claim that a million man fit in it isn´t an Exaggeration
Visery broke tradition, dance of dragon won’t happen if he publicly announced Aegon as ruler, Deamond and his daughter will be angry but them will honour his legacy, visery was too soft and emotional to be a king. Aegon is not mad king, he turn out quite merciful at the end. The facts he lose everyone and he still spare deamond children.
Lol Aegon was a terrible king and Rhaenyra was a terrible queen and Daemon wouldve also been a volatile king. The biggest flaw Viserys had was being to loving to see how spoiled his children and sibling had become.
In Indian epic Mahabharata...the whole war wouldn't have happened if Vishma(Debabrata) had become king..same here..if Rhaenys had become the queen..none of this would have happened
Too bad that this isn't at all respectful of the source, just like 95% of this show. The Princess Rhaenys was NOT passed over at a Great Council. When her father died (Jaehaerys's eldest son, Aemon) he made the choice to promote Baelon to Prince of Dragonstone, which pissed off the Good Queen Alysanne something awful. Rhaenys was pregnant with Laena, but it was thought if she was carrying a boy, it would remove her son's birthright. The SECOND time, when Baelon dies of the burst belly, is when the Great Council of 101 happened, and the main claimants were Viserys and LAENOR, *NOT* Rhaenys.
Ive always felt bad Jaehaerys for having to make this decision. I think deep down he wanted to and probably realized that picking Rhaeyns was the right choice for the long run in terms of stability for the realm. But I think his only main goal was avoiding a civil war within his own family in the present or near future, he failed lol. But my guess is he was probably hoping Viserys would actually be able to make the right choices to appease the Valerions but Visery’s only ever makes things worse lol. Kinda like most Targaryens, they only make bad decisions, very few of them make ALL the right choices shit I mean even Jaehaerys didn’t manage to accomplish that he gave it a really good shot tho.
He never wanted to make Rhaenys, or any woman, the heir. Even when he was young, Princess Daenerys was older than Prince Aemon and he named Aemon his heir. When Queen Alysanne pointed that out he said "oh they're gonna marry anyway, so it's the same thing". When Aemon died, he named Baelon his heir and that caused a major argument between Jae and Aly. And when Baelon too died, he held the council(Aly too was dead by then).
@@levia9349 thanks to the greens, not Rhaenyra. more than half the realm supported Rhaenyra (56 houses) while the Aegon only had the support of house Hightower, lannister and baratheon (and other 20+ small houses). house Stark, Tully, Arryn, Velaryon, Greyjoys, they all fought for the dragon queen caring little about what's between her legs
@@Nihilanth exactly as a ruler you solve problems before it becomes a problem Viserys was fool to think some people would fallow his law because he said it lool.
Viserys was a good king, people blame him for the civil war but it happened after his death. Yes he made some mistakes but he couldn't control everything, I think it was bound to happen at some point anyway.
Nope, the war happened largely because of him, some other characters like Daemon and Otto are also to blame but Viserys holds a large part in it. The reason is because he didn't pick a side. He was neither on the Black side or the Green side, he tried playing both. Because he loved both. He reinstalled Otto as hand and also married his daughter Alicent beforehand giving the greens a lot of power (they also became his regents whilst he was too sickly to govern). For the Black's he made Rhaenyra heir and didn't strip her of the position after Aegon ii was born and he kept allowing Daemon to do whatever he wants with little repercussion, also allowing Daemon and Rhaenyra to marry eachother. Plus he favoured the blacks on the succession crises of Driftmark (even though it was evident Lucerys was not the true heir to House Valeryon). All he had to do was pick a side. If he favoured the Blacks he should of named someone like Corlys or Daemon as his hand after Lyonels death, he should of made the Lords re swear their oaths to Rhaenyra, he should have made his green children (Aegon, Haleana, Aemond and Daeron) swear oaths to Rhaenyra. He also should have named her regent (instead of Otto and Alicent) whilst he was too sickly so that the change of rulership would pass over easily to Rhaenyra. If he preferred the Greens he should of never got rid of Otto for his spying of Rhaenyra. He should of named Aegon his heir right after his birth or when he was a teen (if he feared the child's assassination). He should of groomed Aegon ii to be a ruler instead of letting him be a drunkard. He should of recognised Rhaenyra's first children as bastards. He should have never let Rhaenyra and Daemon marry. There is still a large chance war could break out after his death. Both the Greens and Black's wouldn't be happy if the king had preferred the other in his decisions, however if he did pick a side the other would he greatly handicapped from it leading to a quick end to any war. But he didn't because he was a good man, bad father, and a terrible king.
@Raylan Givens My answer on how Viserys could've avoided war was from the point of the timeskip (episode 6) so from where I'm writing from this was the ways he could of avoided war. However he could've avoided it even further back, as you stated. He could've named Aegon heir as soon as he was born. Also about King Viserys remarriage. It was sort of necessary and sort of not. Yes he did need more Targaryens as the house had now dwindled to him, Rhaenyra,Daemon and if you want to count the cousins Rhaenys and her two children ( Vaegon may also still be alive but he's a maester and can't inherit). And if he had wanted to keep Daemon from being closer to the throne in the line of succession then having his male children was a great idea. But to prevent Rhaenyra being pushed aside for another heir there is an even better idea. Have her marry and birth heirs as soon as her naming as heir. In the books this isn't possible as I believe Rhaenyra is about 6 when this happens but in the show she is at least 13. Her and Alicent are the same age and she was able to give the King a son and daughter even before Rhaenyra was betrothed. Yes Rhaenyra would be unhappy being forced to marry so early and without any say but it would be for her benefit (she would probably end up marrying Leanor as she did by the end of her search for a consort). If Rhaenyra was the one to marry and birth children then there would be no need for Alicent and her side of the family. Rhaenyra and her children would of filled in the task of populating house Targaryen and her sons would have a better claim than Daemon and would not rebel against her (like her brothers did). If she decided to have her children secretly with Ser Harwin Strong then there would be no greens to contest her. Daemon may use it to lay a better claim but he was already disinherited by Viserys and would probably have little backing.
Why was jaherys the greatest king the Targaryens had ever produced? Like idk I guess you just are bound to get lucky after 300 years of ruling. But still it’s kinda surprising to see that he has all of the good traits and none of the bad when it comes to being a Targaryen.
Technically Rheanys would never have sat the throne officially anyways. Fire and blood stipulates this stating it would pass to Laenor when he came of age
Because it's too expesive to adapt the conquest. They will need a huge budget on FX alone, imagine to animate Aegon's dragon. I hear they will planning in doing an animation of the conquest.
I don't know why they act like this was some great decision, or that Rhaenys had a shot. This is a culture that follows the laws of Male primogeniture; the oldest male heir. The only thing that's unusual is that they put a woman in the line up. I mean when Aegon I died it's not like the throne went to his sister/wife🤢. Hell, even when a woman is named it took arm twisting to get the Lord's to accept it, though most knew this wouldn't be the end of the contention.
the chartacters in the story thought her claim legitimate enough to take it seriously, so if you don't understand why people think she had a shot that just means you only mistakenly think you know the story and its culture.
@@scottmatheson3346 what I said is exactly their I'm not sure how much you've paid attention because what I wrote IS their culture, demonstrably. The only ones on the series that thought Rhaenys should have gotten it were her husband, kids, and Rhaenyra. Not exactly a good sample size to measure the opinion of the realm, especially since all have a self serving reason for supporting it. Even though Rhaenyra was his only child and heir, most of the other lords had to be dragged kicking and screaming to accept her as heir. They weren't difficult because they didn't like her, it was solely because she was female and law and custom dictated that it goes to the oldest male heir. And despite the fact they said they'd accept it, they jumped ship at the first possible moment. Show me where I have it wrong.
He become king because he is male , he benefited from the tradition then he broke it named his daughter as heir, while still have 3 sons. This never work in any dynasty when males line still exist. Just look at British empire, all the queen ascend to the thrones because there are no male left.
Many people here claim that Great Council was a way to prevent war. Firstly, Rhaenys is and was heir in accordance to Andal law. Yes, she is a woman, but women come before their uncles in terms of succesion. Starks for example married nieces to their uncles one time due to girls being the heirs. Alys Karstark is regarded as heir instead of her uncle. Of course, these women often struggle and many times people ignore the law. Yes, the succession was muddied a bit because Rhaenys' father Aemon died before he became the king. But he was prince of Dragonstone, rightful heir. And yet, king names his son Baelon, Viserys' and Daemon's father... because council makes a decision. When its member, Corlys Velaryon, is away, and another member, Aemon, suspiciously died because they apparently they shot him in place of someone else. But Baelon dies too. And puppet's show known as Great Council happens. Rhaenys and Corlys overpower Viserys' faction. Yes, both parties have a dragon on their side, Laenor has little Seasmoke. But if we do not count dragons... then it would be Rhaenys' victory. How did the Great Council untimately voted? The numbers were not revealed, convinientely. We know though that Rhaenys' side was supported by Baratheons (who shared Rhaenys blood), Velaryon's bannermen and... Starks and most/all their bannermen with house Blackwood. We are told that Viserys won by the score of 20:1. But apart from masters we have no mention of any house publicly declating for him. Why would not lords want Rhaenys? Rhaenys is an adult, dragonrider, with two children and married to one of the most powerful lord in the kingdom. She has two heir, daughter and son, who is even a dragonrider. But most importanly... Rhaenys is heir according to rules followed by most lords. You want Rhaenys to be queen so no futute succession of any house in the realm is questioned (or at least not in most of the houses. It was a big scheme by a Citadel, and this is not just a Blacks' propaganda 😅
Seriously, there's "democratic legitimacy" for Aegon II. If Viserys truly wants Rhaenyra to inherit his throne, he should hsve made another vote. Instead he just made the lords swear an oath to Rhaenyra. Got a good heart, but a terrible king
but the situation Viserys had was different from that in this scene. The show changed it slightly. The vote was between Viserys and Laenor, both kids. And Without the vote Viserys had more claim as his father and Rhaenys' uncle Baelon was heir before him. Jahaerys just held the vote to rid himself of any role in the decision cuz the last time he passed over a girl for heir his wife was angry with him lol
I blame Otto Hightower for the mess that's going on. He's the one who told the king to make Rhaenyra heir to the throne, just because he didn't want Daemon to be king. And now that his grandson is the king's first son he wants everyone to ignore the fact he helped change the line of succession.
Yeah let's blame otto hightower because great king viserys cannot do his own thinking. The final decision was his and at the time was the right decision but obviously once aegon was born both rhaenyra and daemon should have ceased to matter.
@@siran424 And Jahearys is too old. And Vicery that time no longer have dragon that time since Balerion is dead if i am not mistaken so it eill only be Caraxes vs Meleys and Queen Aemma don't know if she did claim a dragon. But both Meleys and Caraxes were stated if one on one they can defeat Vhagar which Caraxes did due to Meleys died because of unfair fight.
@@whitesage2066 Meleys is just fast that's about it. Caraxes alone is enough to rip apart Meleys, let alone Caraxes and Vermithor together. Queen Aemma ?? You mean Alysanne ?? She was dead already at that point. And nope neither Caraxes nor Melys can defeat Vhagar alone and come out alive. It was never stated as such anywhere in the source material.
@@siran424 I am talking Rhaenyra's mother and no Meleys is too fast to Caraxes and let alone that Caraxes is an inch large than Meleys. But it was already stated duhhhhh search and look for more and besides ehen Vhagar and Caraxes fight and even both of them died. Caraxes was consider the winner. And yeah during the battle of Meleys, Sunfyre and Vhagar it stated that Meleys can easily finish Sunfyre and also Meleys also have a high chance of winning agaisnt Vhagar.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
I wish we saw more of Jaeharyes GRRM originally wanted the show to cover the last years of his reign before the ascension of Viserys
That would’ve been so coolio
Would love to see him riding vermithor
Should have been included IMO, atleast as a first episode.
I suppose the first season of the show jumps around so much that they thought the TV audience would need to start off with a main character that would act as throughline (Rhaenyra).
The main thing they wanted from this scene was to show the uphill battle in store for Rhaenyra that Rhaenys could not overcome.
It’s irrelevant to the current plot though. It’s prologue info, we don’t need 3 time skips to get that times were good and now they’re not.
That is actually brilliant on Jaehaerys' part. Viserys would have had the Iron Throne anyway after the king's death and if he had rejected the succesion, there would be a war. Old man solved everything with a fucking vote.
Exactly. He's the absolute opposite of Viserys, who broke tradition and named Rhaenyra heir over Daemon over a quarrel.
@@confused4971 to be fair... it's not like Daemon was the most popular and accepted member of the family.
The simple fact there even was a discussion despite the precedent said a lot.
@@maxi1ification even if daemon is hated, who else is there to challenge his claim ? (not considering viserys's son, and by that point daemon would just be replaced with viserys's son)
@@confused4971 actually to be fair he didn't just do it to punish Daemon or because he was scared his brother would kill him. He just knew his brother was too reckless to be King and would possibly make many ruinous decisions leaving the realm at war with itself as Maegor once did.
@@spearshake4771That's ironic.
Because that's exactly what Rheanyra did, leaving westeros in war and utter chaos ...
Would really love to watch a series completely about Jaehaerys that centers around his entire life. He was the best king Westeros ever had and his wife Alysanne was the best queen. So many interesting things happened in his time including the reign of Maegor the Cruel and the Poor Fellow rebellion, Alysanne's tour of the North and her dragon's refusal to fly past the Wall, Princess Aerea's disappearance with Balerion and her return from Valyria with a Giger-like infestation of horrors in her body, etc
A good king governing well in peacetime would make for a boring show
They can use flashbacks during the current show... they can tie in lots of things from the past
@@hrishabkumarsharma1355 it was largely peaceful during his reign but there were wars and battles, but they were smaller. There was however tonnes of politicking which is when the original series was at it's best.
Plus the fight against the faith militant and Jaehaerys and his fight against Maegor was hella bloody, could do a mini series of him gaining his throne then fighting to keep it together. It would set up HoTD as a pre-sequel... but If the rumours of a conquest series is true then we would see it anyways as Jaehaerys is the one who knit the real together after Aegon conquered it (and maegor bled it) so itd be the end of that series
@@jakarhess7129 I hope those rumors are true, I think that would make a really good show
@@jakarhess7129 Probably a series about the Conquest would end up with Jaehaerys being crowned king at 14 and that's all. We wont be seeing much of his reign cause not much happens and its far between. It is adaptable if we run up of storylines to adapt but there are more interesting things to adapt before than Jaehaerys reign. I would love everything to be adapted? Yes, but from a comercial point of view, the Conquest previous to his reign, the Blackfyre Rebellions, etc... are better adaptable material.
Fun fact, jahaerys when he sentenced a man to become a cripple he instead opted for a trial by combat and demanded which old man will fight him. Jahaerys who was turning 50 rather then naming a sworn sword to fight on his behalf decided to fight them himself and won
“This old man. The one whose daughter you seduced and despoiled” he replied to ser Beesbury……Who ended up getting stabbed in the skull be the Old King
Jaehaerys had that dawg in him
Earlier in Fire and Blood, a younger Jaeherys had fought a trial by combat himself. The guy who challenged the Old King must've forgotten that either side can name a champion in a trial by combat, whereas Jaeherys was FAR from stupid.
not only cripple but also castrate
It was a Beesbury right?
They put a piece of paper in a heavy ass chest that required 2 people to carry instead of just putting it in a small box in front of the King?
Imagine if the dude just pulled out a piece of crumbled paper from his pocket.
@@TheTruthIsGonnaHurt Cut to Pycelle deliberately dropping important papers so Tyrion has to pick it up.
@@TheTruthIsGonnaHurt they would've accused him of election fraud and send
#notmyking on ravens to all the 6.5 kingdoms 😆
@@HOTD108_ Nah! Cut to Cersei ripping up the piece of paper and delivering one of her defiant lines. What a marvelous bitch!
@@TheTruthIsGonnaHurt😂
Originally Rhaenys was not even considered but her son Leanor Jaeherys great grandchild and Viserys.Rhaenys was passed as heir when her uncle took title of heir when her father Crowned Prince died that is why she is called Queen who never was because she was never even considered
Fun fact for all you Star Wars fans. Thats Michael Carter the man who played Bib Fortuna as Jaehaery’s.
Lmfao now I can't unsee it. "Wanna wonga?" Lmfao
This should have been done everytime there were any doubts about the succession when there was no obvious heir.
The look on his face. Like he's not sure if this'll be enough to save this family.
He knows he his only delaying war within his own house as the other noble houses want to share the dragons with the Royal Family but that is not how Dragon ladies and lord work.
If only Viserys had followed this trend, this vote possibly prevented a war over succession
Yes, he should do the same. On the other hand, knowing how a jerk his oldest son is, he may have wanted hit daughter to succeed.
@@alioneal8711exactly. What did he do exactly to secure her position? He named her heir and put a huge burden on her shoulders that he didn't properly prepare her for, then left her vulnerable. Apart from him standing up for her son's claim as Lord of the Tides, and settling some arguments, there was nothing more done to shut people up and secure her position.
@@alioneal8711 yeah this is it. The show likes to present him keeping Rhaenyra the heir because of the prince that was promised prophecy. But even using that reasoning it still reeks of arrogance.
@@SilvX610exactly the issue isn't with her being a woman at all as we seen she was actually widely accepted and people choose death than betray her, however viserys should've made it a law so whatever alicent said wouldn't have held any strength at all
If he couldn’t see the obvious (that Otto was a snake), then he was never going to take steps to curtail the war that was brewing in his family
We actually needed an anthology show about the history of house Targaryen. A season per king. I could watch it forever.
We need the Fall of Valyria, Aegon's Conquest, The First Long Night, and so much more.
As much as I love Rhaenys, I think her Queenship would've caused problems of it's own. I sincerely doubt that the Targaryens would want to lose their name in the crown and I strongly doubt the Velaryons would just let it go had Laenor maintained the Targaryen name.
Yeah true. I wonder why Rhaenys was surprised she didn’t get picked since the last 4 Rulers of Westeros were males.
I feel like that would be part of the reason, on top of all of those things it would then set a precedent that elder daughters of minor and major houses now had legitimacy to their families seats. And the men in power and heirs did not want that to happen.
This has happend before in westerosi history, you don't loose the name you change it to the seat you take.
House Lannister comes from the female line because one king didn't have a son, so his son in law changed his last name to Lannister upon marriage.
In asoiaf we also meet Harry the heir, who's heir to the Eerie after Robert Arryn who'd take on the name Arryn if he succeded him.
That and she's a civilian killing lunatic who'll kill them just to intimate her rivals.
That's why she support Rheanyra all her life even with Leanor's death....
This is why he is called the Old King.
The Conciliator
I wish we had seen more of Jaeharys rule. He was the most sane Targaryen lmao
He was an absolute gigachad. The Augustus of Westeros
Shame about how he treated all of his kids.
Jaehaerys is the GOAT
The old GOAT.
Rhaenys being considered is a show only thing it was between Laenor and Viserys.
Apparently Viserys won overwhelmingly despite Laenor/Rhaenys having house velaryon, celtigar,Dustin,Manderly,Blackwood,Stark,
and Baratheon support which makes you wonder how the voting was actually done
Jaehaerys gave the chance to all the lords of Westeros a chance to choose their new ruler, not only for the highest houses like Starks and Baratheons but for the lowest houses. That is how the voting was made
No it doesn't. There are over 600 houses in Westeros. Just because Rhaenys had 10 houses supporting her doesn't mean she was going to win. And there's nothing to say that vassal lords have to vote the same as their liege. The support of House Stark is worth just as much as house Corbray since all their votes are equal.
@@matthewhart9610 Those 10 houses rule over many, many smaller houses. House Stark and Baratheon specifically. While their vassals could have differing opinions, they typically follow what their liege supports.
@@princess7jasmineand what about the other houses, lannisters, tyrell’s, arryns, greyjoys and martells?? those are great houses too all are wardens of other houses
@@captainpetrson5812 The Arryns were on Team Black too and a few other Vale houses by extension. Dorne wasn't under the Iron Throne at this time and didn't really fully take a side as far as I know. The Tyrells took no side as well and House Lannister was Team Green. I also don't know about Greyjoy, but I THINK they were Team Black as well just to raid the Westerlands. Regardless, I don't see how your point is supposed to be an argument against mine, I only mentioned a few houses as an example, but it obviously applies to others too.
But keep in mind, not every region/great house are equal in power. The Tyrells are the largest suppliers of food to Westeros, having them on your side tips the scales heavily even if you have 2-3 other great houses on your side.
I love the black and silver targaryen banner it looks so good 😍
I would like to see a series about Jaehaerys rule since he was the longest king on iron throne for 55yrs and his dragon Vermithor a lot of history there
Something the Tv didn’t cover was that Jaehaerys and Alysanne second child Daenerys (the first died short after child birth) was a girl and a rift between the two that lasted years formed over the oldest child being past over as heir for being a girl. It was as issue with succession that kept coming up and each ruled kind of just keep kicking the can down the line.
And the couple also had a GREAT disagreement about passing the throne to Viserys instead of Rhaenys even though Rhaenys was the daughter of the original heir (Aemon her father.) Alysanne was angry to Jaeherys for dismissing Rhaenys just becuse she's a woman.
They only made up because of Maegelle after two years of not talking with each other. 😭
Choosing a Velaryon means literally ending the Targaryen line to put the Velaryon dynasty in charge. Of course it was a lost cause for Rhaenys and Laenor.
Not really. In the show, Corlys and Viserys agreed that any children they had would take the Targaryen name when they took the throne. That seems to be the norm in Westeros for whenever a ruling lady leads a household. So, for instance, had Daemon and Rhea Royce had kids, at least the heir would have taken the Royce name.
@@seanp2871 still wouldn't really be a real Royce though would it?
@@jde-jj1lu Yes, it would have. The child would have had Royce blood, lived in Runestone, and had the Royce name. Nothing could make them more of a Royce.
@@seanp2871 Do you understand how the passing of genes works?
@@jde-jj1ludo you? 😂
The maesters can totally be trusted not to fudge the number from the vote
Their motives totally aren’t compromised by their allegiance to House Hightower
Keep coping. The woman lost the vote.
@@liamjm9278 I think you missed the point….
@@mpalfadel2008 No.
@@liamjm9278 yup
You really missed the point
It’s ok, a lot of people who have read the books still missed this small but important detail
@@mpalfadel2008 No.
Christopher Lee would have been a good choice
He’s dead
So what? If he was still alive he would have been a perfect casting
It is such a shame that he is gone after all the memorable work he did
My fcking gods jaehaerys had way too many fcking kids dude. I realized viserys and rhaenys are his grandchildren. This bloodline got me confused. Jaehaerys in this case his son aemon had rhaenys and his other son baelon had viserys….bruh took me a while to figure this sht out
I’m more impressed of Alysanne carrying all those children 😅
The king makes the laws and rules you didn’t see Dorne Having this problem if they had more of a society like Dorne, it doesn’t matter your gender. It’s whoever is first born.
Those boy lovers? No dorne should have no social influence over westros
@@attiepollard7847 bro is doing westorosi homophobia 💀💀💀
@@attiepollard7847 those boy lovers should rule all of Westeros
@@brandonrooney5106 and watch your whole population go down because you want more boy lovers. How nice
@@attiepollard7847 boy lovers are great, love ‘em
Rhaenys trust me you wouldn't want it anyway, the iron throne is always surrounded by drama backstabbers war discourse murder torture etc etc (and the etc is worse)
We will perhaps get to see jaeherys riding vermithor in aegon's conquest show when he fights against maegor and balerion.
I don't know why, but it feels like a National Geographic show, and I can't get it out of my head
I'm not upset that a woman despite being older got passed over. It would've been the right decision if it truly preserved peace or if the heir wasnt deserving.
But in this Rhaenys was not only before Viserys in the list of children, she was wiser and a graceful person.
In her heart she was clearly disappointed on being passed over but she never showed any frustration.
And she was married to the head of house Velaryon, a powerful house.
Most notably, Targaryens already did things that were not acceptable in the eyes of the common folk. Like marrying inside the family.
Jahaerys was a wise king. Even though I feel Aegon I was the best but Jahaerys comes second for me. He wasnt even as sexist as others of that time as he respected his wife and gave her place in his court. And Jahaerys was brave
but at that old age he was probably tired of conflicts and wanted to let the court handle the succession thing. Maybe he also had a soft spot for Baelon and hence he preferred his children.
The common folk dont really care who sits the throne, the lords do. But the Targaryens had dragons. Even though the Targs wouldnt have wanted unnecessary conflict, neither would the other lords. I really think Jahaerys just wanted to get done with this entire thing and wanted the throne to get Baelon's children.
I wish we could have seen a visual history of Jaehaerys the Conciliator. He was more than a king with a crown. 👑
And she shouldn't have.
The King was just!
The King made piece for the common folk!
The King left his Throne on a pile of Gold!
Everyone after him effed it all up!
Jaeharys was wise, he saved the realm from the current atrocities inflicted by Viscerys when he named Ranyra heir.
The atrocities started because of the greens. And the blacks didnt want to sit back and let the greens usurp the throne. If Rhaenys was to become queen Viserys wouldnt have gone to war. The reason Jahaerys named Viserys heir is because after Aemon died, he named Baelon heir cuz he liked Baelon. Hence instead of passing through Rhaenys and her children he let it pass through Baelon's line.
@winter4053😂😂😂 daemon was working overtime building an army to fight for his brother's cause if laenor was chosen war would have followed. And make no mistake if it was jaehaerys in place of viserys he would never choose rhaenyra over aegon. It was viserys decision and daemon ambition and superiority complex that led to this destruction.
@@ratikantrout1865 😂😂😂you are wrongly putting the entire blame of the war beginning on Viserys and Daemon. Both Blacks and Greens were responsible for the destruction this was but it is undeniable that the Greens started this whole fiasco. Viserys just gave them an opportunity to make a claim because of male primogeniture.
Don't forget that there were people who declared for Rhaenyra and fought for her even after her death. It just makes it clear that though it would be met with disdain from many, Rhaenyra would still be accepted as the Queen had the Greens not crowned Aegon, taken control of the Capital and Court and started the war.
The Greens mainly recieved support from people who thought they could be closer to the crown through Aegon as King than Rhaenyra. And knowing this Otto stacked the court with green supporters.
Towards the end of the conflict, its possible Aegon himself got betrayed by his courtmen who now tried to put a younger and more easily controllable Aegon (Rhaenyra's son) on the throne.
I wasnt aware Daemon was preparing for war if Laenor was named, in which case it was better to name Viserys. Jahaerys didnt want to give anyone an opportunity to create unrest hence he wouldnt create a situation where two people may have a claim, something Viserys did. And he and the blacks carelessly allowed the Greens to take control of the court and create further opposition. But even so, it's more the fault of the person who seized that opportunity to start a terrible war (otto) than the person who's judgment created a vacancy for someone to grab power (Viserys). If you dont realize that then mate, you are too heavily biased towards the Greens.
Both Aegon and Rhaenyra were terrible but while Rhaenyra also went after the throne for greed of power, she was still fulfilling her father, her king's wishes. The Greens were only being selfish. Do you think they actually cared about laws and holiness? Or did the Hightowers want to install their grandchild as King? The common folk dont give a sh about who sits on the throne like Jorah said. They only care about a good rain, good health and good harvest which they lost out on because of a war Otto started. And his own grandchildren suffered greatly too.
@@winter4053 you say I am biased towards the green but I only blamed viserys and daemon. And with your second comment you seem to be team black. Daemon chose his niece over his nephews who were also his blood from day 1 because aegon just by being born stood in his way to the throne. Otto hightower and daemon are both second sons who stood to inherit nothing. They both found a way to become significant. One can even say otto is more noble than daemon. Not once has otto tried to usurp his brother or his children's inheritance. Even if by some miracle aegon aemond daeron all three brothers who have a better claim than rhaenyra and her brood decided to let her be Queen. How long before someone questions the legitimacy of her children? People may not say anything in public for fear of death but the whisper will follow her sons. How many people can she punish, how many mouths can she stop from wagging? Eventually she will be forced to kill her half brothers and even if she didn't daemon certainly would. He was not a half measure guy. The greens had no choice but to pursue the course of war, even outnumbered.
People in the comments have 2 things very wrong:
1. Rhaenys and Rhaenyra's children would not have Velaryon names as many think. They would be called Targaryens.
2. The vote was actually between Viserys and Laenor, both kids. Here it makes sense for Viserys to be named heir as his father Baelon was the heir after Rhaenys' father. This doesnt necessarily set a rule that the throne cannot be passed down through women.
Jaehaerys is a tired old king who knows he is delaying war in his house.
That is my son's throne.
KING VISERYS the true heir 💯💯
Viserys should’ve done the same.
It should have been Rhaenys
Jaehaerys Died aged 69 I think and if he had the vitality of Maester Aemon and died aged 101 I doubt Alicent would have become queen he would have married Rhaenrya and Daemon
Nice
he would have married rhaenrya *and* daemon? like, they would have been a threesome?
I'm not sure. He definitely would have married off Rhaenyra. But Jaeherys had little patience for trouble makers in the family, and Daemon is the King of them
I think he likely would have stripped him of his titles and sent him off to Essos.
Yeah, the Targaryens were lucky before this point. Prior to the deaths of both Princes of Dragonstone, Aemon and Baelon, the dynasty had had a mini-Capetian miracle, or every king had either no children or a son by which they could be succeeded. There really hadn’t been a situation where even if male-preference primogeniture had been in force, a woman would not have been first in line (and that includes the transition from Maegor I to Aenys I), until now.
People forget how maegar took the iron throne . And how jaherys did . Iron throne belongs to who can take it . Not because some tiny lord said soo . Dance would happen anyway . Because with dragons the armies are not so important . Aegon took 6 kungdoms only with 10k men and three dragons . If there was voting aegon would win . Because he is male his children are his . And hand of the king would bribe someone . It wouldn't stopped daemon and raynyra though . They had more dragons . And still had support .
I’m still a big believer even to this day that the Curse of Harrenhall and that the Great Council of 101 at Harrenhal itself set things in motion the Dance of the Dragons and the eventual downfall of House Targaryen. no one noticed it, but i think they were cursed.
The only rider that rided vermithor the dragon
If There Was This Many Dragons And This Many Targarians How Did They Fall
Because like they said after this scene, the fall of House Targaryen can only happen with inside conflict
The civil war but mainly because aegon witnessed the dance of dragons and his mothers death. He had no interest in dragons after the civil war and stopped breeding them. The few the dragon keepers did try to breed were small and sickly. I haven't read the book in a long time but basically that's why they died out. Edit: the aegon I'm talking about was rhaenys son aegon not alicent.
Anyone find it weird how he had 14 kids and they predeceased him? I have a theory that the faith and maesters were helping the downfall of the Targaryen’s and dragons. May explain why poor Aemma had issues having kids, how Rhaenys only had the twins etc
I agree. It's something fishy. They definitely conspired with the Hightowers.
Ever seen the videos about the Grand Maester Conspiracy? Check them out, the maesters have long planned the fall of house Targaryen, probably since Aegon conquered Westeros
Only if you don't consider how they died. Aegon, Gaemon and Valerion all died stillborn/infancy. Gael committed suicide, Maegelle caught greyscale, and Daenerys died of the shivers. Daella and Alyssa died in childbirth, and Viserra died in what amounted to a drunk driving incident. That just leaves Aemon (who got a crossbow bolt in the throat whilst fighting on Tarth), and Baelon who died of appendicitis. It's hardly suspicious circumstances.
@@matthewhart9610what do you mean driving 😂😂😂
@@Pinoyslayer8888bro told his horse “gallop as fast as the wind, leave not a leaf behind in thy trails and guide me to thine home so I can slumber thou drink away” only to fall face first into a tree 😂😂
making ts up btw
It was really between Viserys and Laenor, son of Raenys. She was never a candidate.
All of them
Şu sahne gerçekten inanılmaz güzeldi açıp açıp izliyorum Daenerys Targaryen ından 172 sene öncesi yazdığında kalbimi bıraktım.
If Viserys held a vote between Daemon and Rhaenyra then Rhaenyra probably wouldve been elected as heir despite being a woman due to the rogue nature of Daemon looking problematic to the other lords.
yeah but people would have sayed
WHERE IS AEGON?
Viserys can solve the succession by this way but he choose dance of dragons he knows everything
dude is bad king, nice person but bad king, shouldn’t name female as rulers in old tradition when there is male in succession, not to mention rhaenyra have bastard sons, if she become queen those bastard will become first in line of succession, it is shame in the old way.
he could have simply married Aegon to Rhaenyra
Rhaenyra actor is doing the narration yes?
With some added voice effects
Jaeharyes wasn’t even at the great council. Plus the two major claims were Viserys and Leanor. Rhaenys wasn’t considered due to being female.
This is before Dorne was united to the state so there are 6 kingdoms, not 7
even the lords of dorne was there.
it was still called the 7 kingdoms
........
when dorne was taken over they simply stoped countong the riverlands as a kingdom so the number remained 7
.........
technically speaking ther are 10 Kingdoms in the end
.........
the typical 7, the riverlands, the Claw and Dragonstone
It was set in the Council aswell that Male lines would prevail over female lines. Viserys went against this council and put her daughter on the throne causing the riff with his male son that ended in a war.
That's not quite true. The greens certainly looked at the Great Council and argued that the precedent was set that no woman could inherit, but the council didn't actually say that. All the council said was that Viserys should be king over Rhaenys and her seven-year-old son, Laenor (who was the claimant they were arguing over in the book). But there are plenty of other precedents that would argue against that.
The thing about succession is that it is a very nebulous concept. Ultimately, it comes back to claims and who has the "stronger" claim is often a matter of opinion. Most would agree that a legitimate first-born son has the strongest claim, but most would also agree that a king/lord can name whoever they want as their heir. So, in the case where the Lord of Winterfell disinherits his eldest son and names his second son his heir, who has the stronger claim is up for debate.
Keep in mind, everyone agreed that Viserys had the right to name Rhaenyra his heir; that's why Otto suggested it and no one fought against it. If the Council had really said, "No, Girls can't inherit anything," then someone would have absolutely protested when Viserys asked them to swear fealty to her.
Now, if asked, most would agree that Aegon has a very strong claim, that is true. However, most would also agree that Viserys has the right to name whoever he wants his heir. If her were to have named Aemond his heir, no one would have questioned it because that is the king's right; he can choose any of his children to be his heir. The reason that Rhaenyra was facing trouble was because the greens want the throne for themselves and see her gender as cause to steal it. That doesn't mean that she didn't have a claim. Nor does it mean she is not the rightful heir. Succession is complicated, but that just makes the greens' actions even worse, because the onus for rebellion was on them (we can argue about the precedents all we want, but if Otto and Alicent hadn't staged a coup, their would have been no war; they were the ones that chose a course that was clearly going to lead to violence).
@@seanp2871 They chose the course that mean House Targaryen would live on thanks to the true blood male heir inheriting the throne and continuing the blood line by siring more sons. Because thats actually how a bloodline doesnt cease to exist.
If the passing on of blood was what really mattered, female lines would've been preferred. Paternity can always be questioned but maternity isn't. It is the best and most fool-proof way to proceed and make sure the bloodline is being passed on. But it seems that the world of HOTD also followed what Engels mentioned in the Origin of the Family, where private property and ownership is tied to the development of a patriarchal state. Princess Rhaenys' Targaryen blood is undermined because she is a married woman and by status quo took upon her husband's name. It supposedly is only a name and what constitutes her lineage is far complex than what a couple of letters can capture, but the name is what allows someone to belong in that society. Traditionally, the privilege of being able to give your name to someone stems from males having more chances of defending their property, the extreme of this being shown in how wives used to be (unfortunately still are in some parts of the world) treated as properties of their husbands, BUT if a woman has a dragon that logic totally must definitely be thrown out the window.
@@aurora_bae No. Obviously you know a child is from the mother it's born from, but thats not how genes and dominant genes pass down.
@@jde-jj1luI assume your father was actually fucking retarded then, because how the fuck can someone become so stupid and dumb?
My only question is is why the hell did they hold the ceremony in Heron Hall?
This is from an appendix, *"It was held at the enormous, half-ruined castle Harrenhal because it was the only location big enough to fit such a large and unprecedented gathering of all the lords in Westeros."*
well in the books Harrenhall wasn´t in ruins
......
it was just damaged, with the walls twisting and bing bend
and larg parts of it being inhabitat by bats only
.......
Harrenhal was beyound hugh
the claim that a million man fit in it
isn´t an Exaggeration
Bran just warging eeeeeevvvverybody
Visery broke tradition, dance of dragon won’t happen if he publicly announced Aegon as ruler, Deamond and his daughter will be angry but them will honour his legacy, visery was too soft and emotional to be a king. Aegon is not mad king, he turn out quite merciful at the end. The facts he lose everyone and he still spare deamond children.
Lol Aegon was a terrible king and Rhaenyra was a terrible queen and Daemon wouldve also been a volatile king. The biggest flaw Viserys had was being to loving to see how spoiled his children and sibling had become.
In Indian epic Mahabharata...the whole war wouldn't have happened if Vishma(Debabrata) had become king..same here..if Rhaenys had become the queen..none of this would have happened
No.
Too bad that this isn't at all respectful of the source, just like 95% of this show.
The Princess Rhaenys was NOT passed over at a Great Council. When her father died (Jaehaerys's eldest son, Aemon) he made the choice to promote Baelon to Prince of Dragonstone, which pissed off the Good Queen Alysanne something awful. Rhaenys was pregnant with Laena, but it was thought if she was carrying a boy, it would remove her son's birthright.
The SECOND time, when Baelon dies of the burst belly, is when the Great Council of 101 happened, and the main claimants were Viserys and LAENOR, *NOT* Rhaenys.
Rhaenys Targaryen, the queen who should've been.
The Queen who had no chance in hell 😂😂😂
The civilian killing lunatic? Hell no.
The girlboss who never was. Rest in piss, Rhaenys Targaryen.
@@liamjm9278 pfft, like that's disqualifying.
Ive always felt bad Jaehaerys for having to make this decision. I think deep down he wanted to and probably realized that picking Rhaeyns was the right choice for the long run in terms of stability for the realm. But I think his only main goal was avoiding a civil war within his own family in the present or near future, he failed lol. But my guess is he was probably hoping Viserys would actually be able to make the right choices to appease the Valerions but Visery’s only ever makes things worse lol.
Kinda like most Targaryens, they only make bad decisions, very few of them make ALL the right choices shit I mean even Jaehaerys didn’t manage to accomplish that he gave it a really good shot tho.
He never wanted to make Rhaenys, or any woman, the heir. Even when he was young, Princess Daenerys was older than Prince Aemon and he named Aemon his heir. When Queen Alysanne pointed that out he said "oh they're gonna marry anyway, so it's the same thing".
When Aemon died, he named Baelon his heir and that caused a major argument between Jae and Aly. And when Baelon too died, he held the council(Aly too was dead by then).
@@AxeDharmeyea he always passed over his daughters for his son's it's half the reason his relationship with allysane went bad .
@@AxeDharme amazing king, terrible father
How did you come to this conclusion you are speaking as if you knew Jaehaerys in person lool.
Well, the only reason Jaehaerys became king was because his neices were skipped
This alone mean that Rhaenyra can't inherit the iron throne.
it doesn't.
this is absolute monarchy, the king's words are the law.
@@Nihilanth yaah and look how things went lool
@@levia9349 thanks to the greens, not Rhaenyra.
more than half the realm supported Rhaenyra (56 houses) while the Aegon only had the support of house Hightower, lannister and baratheon (and other 20+ small houses).
house Stark, Tully, Arryn, Velaryon, Greyjoys, they all fought for the dragon queen caring little about what's between her legs
@@Nihilanth exactly as a ruler you solve problems before it becomes a problem Viserys was fool to think some people would fallow his law because he said it lool.
@@Nihilanth she had all these allies but she still couldn't stop her brother from usurping her lool
Viserys was a good king, people blame him for the civil war but it happened after his death. Yes he made some mistakes but he couldn't control everything, I think it was bound to happen at some point anyway.
Nope, the war happened largely because of him, some other characters like Daemon and Otto are also to blame but Viserys holds a large part in it. The reason is because he didn't pick a side. He was neither on the Black side or the Green side, he tried playing both. Because he loved both. He reinstalled Otto as hand and also married his daughter Alicent beforehand giving the greens a lot of power (they also became his regents whilst he was too sickly to govern). For the Black's he made Rhaenyra heir and didn't strip her of the position after Aegon ii was born and he kept allowing Daemon to do whatever he wants with little repercussion, also allowing Daemon and Rhaenyra to marry eachother. Plus he favoured the blacks on the succession crises of Driftmark (even though it was evident Lucerys was not the true heir to House Valeryon).
All he had to do was pick a side. If he favoured the Blacks he should of named someone like Corlys or Daemon as his hand after Lyonels death, he should of made the Lords re swear their oaths to Rhaenyra, he should have made his green children (Aegon, Haleana, Aemond and Daeron) swear oaths to Rhaenyra. He also should have named her regent (instead of Otto and Alicent) whilst he was too sickly so that the change of rulership would pass over easily to Rhaenyra.
If he preferred the Greens he should of never got rid of Otto for his spying of Rhaenyra. He should of named Aegon his heir right after his birth or when he was a teen (if he feared the child's assassination). He should of groomed Aegon ii to be a ruler instead of letting him be a drunkard. He should of recognised Rhaenyra's first children as bastards. He should have never let Rhaenyra and Daemon marry.
There is still a large chance war could break out after his death. Both the Greens and Black's wouldn't be happy if the king had preferred the other in his decisions, however if he did pick a side the other would he greatly handicapped from it leading to a quick end to any war.
But he didn't because he was a good man, bad father, and a terrible king.
@Raylan Givens My answer on how Viserys could've avoided war was from the point of the timeskip (episode 6) so from where I'm writing from this was the ways he could of avoided war. However he could've avoided it even further back, as you stated. He could've named Aegon heir as soon as he was born.
Also about King Viserys remarriage. It was sort of necessary and sort of not. Yes he did need more Targaryens as the house had now dwindled to him, Rhaenyra,Daemon and if you want to count the cousins Rhaenys and her two children ( Vaegon may also still be alive but he's a maester and can't inherit). And if he had wanted to keep Daemon from being closer to the throne in the line of succession then having his male children was a great idea. But to prevent Rhaenyra being pushed aside for another heir there is an even better idea. Have her marry and birth heirs as soon as her naming as heir. In the books this isn't possible as I believe Rhaenyra is about 6 when this happens but in the show she is at least 13. Her and Alicent are the same age and she was able to give the King a son and daughter even before Rhaenyra was betrothed. Yes Rhaenyra would be unhappy being forced to marry so early and without any say but it would be for her benefit (she would probably end up marrying Leanor as she did by the end of her search for a consort). If Rhaenyra was the one to marry and birth children then there would be no need for Alicent and her side of the family. Rhaenyra and her children would of filled in the task of populating house Targaryen and her sons would have a better claim than Daemon and would not rebel against her (like her brothers did). If she decided to have her children secretly with Ser Harwin Strong then there would be no greens to contest her. Daemon may use it to lay a better claim but he was already disinherited by Viserys and would probably have little backing.
@@amanimckenzie32 The war happened because of Viserys lool Jaehaerys has nothing to do with it.
Appointed a baby rather than a female. Wow.
Viserys was a baby? what?
????
1. he wasn´t a baby
2. Rhaenys was married and has kids not wearing the targaryen name
Why was jaherys the greatest king the Targaryens had ever produced? Like idk I guess you just are bound to get lucky after 300 years of ruling. But still it’s kinda surprising to see that he has all of the good traits and none of the bad when it comes to being a Targaryen.
Technically Rheanys would never have sat the throne officially anyways. Fire and blood stipulates this stating it would pass to Laenor when he came of age
Yes, but she still wouod have several years of ruling in his name...Now that we know how thing ended that idea didn't sound so bad.
Baelor probably celebrating somewhere
I think she would have been a much better Ruler than Viserys
Rhaenys… you are NOT the father.
Best decision made by old king.Viserys should also do this.
Old king joe
I don't understand why they didn't start the series with Targaryens how they start and this kingdom was build
Because it's too expesive to adapt the conquest. They will need a huge budget on FX alone, imagine to animate Aegon's dragon.
I hear they will planning in doing an animation of the conquest.
I don't know why they act like this was some great decision, or that Rhaenys had a shot. This is a culture that follows the laws of Male primogeniture; the oldest male heir. The only thing that's unusual is that they put a woman in the line up.
I mean when Aegon I died it's not like the throne went to his sister/wife🤢. Hell, even when a woman is named it took arm twisting to get the Lord's to accept it, though most knew this wouldn't be the end of the contention.
the chartacters in the story thought her claim legitimate enough to take it seriously, so if you don't understand why people think she had a shot that just means you only mistakenly think you know the story and its culture.
@@scottmatheson3346 what I said is exactly their I'm not sure how much you've paid attention because what I wrote IS their culture, demonstrably. The only ones on the series that thought Rhaenys should have gotten it were her husband, kids, and Rhaenyra. Not exactly a good sample size to measure the opinion of the realm, especially since all have a self serving reason for supporting it. Even though Rhaenyra was his only child and heir, most of the other lords had to be dragged kicking and screaming to accept her as heir. They weren't difficult because they didn't like her, it was solely because she was female and law and custom dictated that it goes to the oldest male heir. And despite the fact they said they'd accept it, they jumped ship at the first possible moment.
Show me where I have it wrong.
Any book readers here? Did she not inherit the throne solely because she's a woman?
Rhaenys would've only be queen if she had married a Targaryen in the first place.
Jaeharys would have married Rhaenys to Viserys after the death of Rhaenys’ dad Aemon… Then Corlys would have been wed to Aemma
and then viserys named ryaenyra heir, hypocrisy at its finest
Someone didn't learn from the previous ruler lol
Viserys never became king to spite Rhaenys, he was literally elected as king.
Well he didn’t really chose to be king now did he the lords voted him in so how is it hypocritical if he had nothing to do with the choice?
That’s not what hypocrisy means lol
You don't know what hypocrisy even is, do you? I'm assuming English isn't your first language?
Really don't get why everyone wants the thrown. Yea you get to call the shots but if your a lord you practically get to do whatever you want any way.
Great Council in the final of Game of Thrones 🤡
What the hell happened to Jaegaerys thumbs ?
And then the House Targaryen died of cringe
No grand speech? No display of wealth and strength? What kind of kingsmoot is this? Drowned priests been shaking their heads rn
His beard isn't long enough to touch the floor!
Worse scene ever 0/10
Do not watch
I dunno man, maybe he just shaved earlier
7 kingdoms?? dorne didn’t join the kingdoms yet so they’re 6
Why on earth viserys didn’t do the same?
What episode was this?
1st
@@TheSeriesLover444 I dont remember that at all haha
The first part of the first episode.
Viserys become king only because he was a male. He later made his daughter as his heir is not just.
He become king because he is male , he benefited from the tradition then he broke it named his daughter as heir, while still have 3 sons. This never work in any dynasty when males line still exist. Just look at British empire, all the queen ascend to the thrones because there are no male left.
Pain in rhaenys eyes but who cares 🤣🤣
Wow
Many people here claim that Great Council was a way to prevent war.
Firstly, Rhaenys is and was heir in accordance to Andal law. Yes, she is a woman, but women come before their uncles in terms of succesion.
Starks for example married nieces to their uncles one time due to girls being the heirs. Alys Karstark is regarded as heir instead of her uncle. Of course, these women often struggle and many times people ignore the law.
Yes, the succession was muddied a bit because Rhaenys' father Aemon died before he became the king. But he was prince of Dragonstone, rightful heir.
And yet, king names his son Baelon, Viserys' and Daemon's father... because council makes a decision. When its member, Corlys Velaryon, is away, and another member, Aemon, suspiciously died because they apparently they shot him in place of someone else.
But Baelon dies too. And puppet's show known as Great Council happens.
Rhaenys and Corlys overpower Viserys' faction. Yes, both parties have a dragon on their side, Laenor has little Seasmoke.
But if we do not count dragons... then it would be Rhaenys' victory.
How did the Great Council untimately voted? The numbers were not revealed, convinientely.
We know though that Rhaenys' side was supported by Baratheons (who shared Rhaenys blood), Velaryon's bannermen and... Starks and most/all their bannermen with house Blackwood.
We are told that Viserys won by the score of 20:1. But apart from masters we have no mention of any house publicly declating for him.
Why would not lords want Rhaenys? Rhaenys is an adult, dragonrider, with two children and married to one of the most powerful lord in the kingdom. She has two heir, daughter and son, who is even a dragonrider. But most importanly... Rhaenys is heir according to rules followed by most lords. You want Rhaenys to be queen so no futute succession of any house in the realm is questioned (or at least not in most of the houses.
It was a big scheme by a Citadel, and this is not just a Blacks' propaganda 😅
No.
@@liamjm9278 yes
wait i don’t remember this scene from HOTD
It was literally the first scene.
@@corbans5796 😂
What was the reason for saying "a women" at the end we can tell lol
that the women where not fitt to rule in the civilains and councils eyes
Who narrates this scene? Rhaenys?
I think it was Aemma
Rhaenyra targaryen
@@julialima3951 yes Rhaenyra, sorry I'm getting the names mixed up with Queen Aemma and Emma D'Arcy lol
rhaeneyra narrated that.
@@Deepak__MehtaIs her crispy fried ghost narrating? The whole premise makes Zero sense because she gets killed in the end.
Seriously, there's "democratic legitimacy" for Aegon II. If Viserys truly wants Rhaenyra to inherit his throne, he should hsve made another vote. Instead he just made the lords swear an oath to Rhaenyra. Got a good heart, but a terrible king
but the situation Viserys had was different from that in this scene. The show changed it slightly. The vote was between Viserys and Laenor, both kids. And Without the vote Viserys had more claim as his father and Rhaenys' uncle Baelon was heir before him. Jahaerys just held the vote to rid himself of any role in the decision cuz the last time he passed over a girl for heir his wife was angry with him lol
Couldn’t they marry Viserys to Rhanys?
They were both already married, and Rhaenys had kids with Corlys.
@@matthewhart9610 those impediments can be ... dealt with
Supporting Rhaenys and Rhaenyra means supporting Velaryons and Strongs to overthrow the Targaryens, completely stupid.
Same as how supporting Aegon the drunkard meant having the hightowers overthrow the Targaryens, just subtly.
This
I blame Otto Hightower for the mess that's going on. He's the one who told the king to make Rhaenyra heir to the throne, just because he didn't want Daemon to be king. And now that his grandson is the king's first son he wants everyone to ignore the fact he helped change the line of succession.
Yeah let's blame otto hightower because great king viserys cannot do his own thinking. The final decision was his and at the time was the right decision but obviously once aegon was born both rhaenyra and daemon should have ceased to matter.
House of the Sexism 🤣🤣🤣
Of course
How are they cousins but have the same father
King had a younger brother...and Viserys is his son
She is the son of the eldest son. Viserys is the grandson.
@@pushpamurthy962no. Theybare both grandchildren.
Their fathers were brothers. Rhaenys from the elder, Viserys from the younger.
I read all the comments here to try and figure it out, yet left with more questions than answers.
If i was Rhaenys i will ride Meleys and burn them all. I won't let my cousin or father will have a chance to ride their dragons.😂😂😂😂😂
Mm..
Jeaherys had Vermithor at that time.
And Daemon who supported Viserys had Caraxes.
Rheanys and Meleys would have been dead of they tried that...
@@siran424 well Meleys is too fast for both two dragons.
@@siran424 And Jahearys is too old. And Vicery that time no longer have dragon that time since Balerion is dead if i am not mistaken so it eill only be Caraxes vs Meleys and Queen Aemma don't know if she did claim a dragon. But both Meleys and Caraxes were stated if one on one they can defeat Vhagar which Caraxes did due to Meleys died because of unfair fight.
@@whitesage2066
Meleys is just fast that's about it.
Caraxes alone is enough to rip apart Meleys, let alone Caraxes and Vermithor together.
Queen Aemma ?? You mean Alysanne ?? She was dead already at that point.
And nope neither Caraxes nor Melys can defeat Vhagar alone and come out alive. It was never stated as such anywhere in the source material.
@@siran424 I am talking Rhaenyra's mother and no Meleys is too fast to Caraxes and let alone that Caraxes is an inch large than Meleys. But it was already stated duhhhhh search and look for more and besides ehen Vhagar and Caraxes fight and even both of them died. Caraxes was consider the winner. And yeah during the battle of Meleys, Sunfyre and Vhagar it stated that Meleys can easily finish Sunfyre and also Meleys also have a high chance of winning agaisnt Vhagar.
Can’t argue it was a smart idea to pick a man it’s 2024 a lot of woman vote for somebody cause of their looks
how the hell is trump leading the us presidential race then?
@@scottmatheson3346 he still looks better then his opponent .....
I choose Obama