I just wanted to give you a big “THANK YOU!!!”. I had this issue and did what you said by contacting Ford! I had 88k miles and they paid 60% and since it took a month gave me a 3yr-36k mike Warrenty. If it wasn’t for your video I would gave gas to pay &3500! I owe ya a beer if we ever run into each other! Thanks buddy and keep up the good videos!!
Today, I'm confident that my 2018 F-150 received the old style cam phasers at 58,750 (Oct-2020) under TSB 20-2191 and today (Oct-2023) the F-150 is at the dealer replacing them again at 126,500...with the updated version. This video is gold - thanks Mason! - as I am waiting on the call from the dealer to discuss what other parts I want replaced. Loved the part of video discussing the repair for those of us who are way-out-of-warranty and what else you should consider replacing with this level of repair.
Solid information, thank you for the video. My Vehicle is a 2018 F-150 w/60K miles, Ford paid 66%. They called me mid repair and said the valve cover was cracked and I would need to pay for it, an extra $130, I assumed the tech broke it while removing it but I felt it wasn't worth disputing. In the end my total was $670 which I feel pretty good about. In so many ways this is the best truck I have ever owned, my whole family loves it and is comfortable while traveling, I have 0wned quite a few Fords and Chevrolets but this one stands out as being the highest quality, with this one exception. I wished Ford would figure out the Cam Phaser deal, Cam Phasers plagued the Ford trucks since 2004, maybe not the identical issue but the same part none the less.
Glad to hear you got some paid for! Yeah Ford is really slow it seems to correcting an issue that so many other makes have had almost no issues with for years
Great information. I'm going through this as I type. Just got the call from the dealer that they need to do the whole phaser job. I had the software program done a while back. No help. The 21N03 didn't apply to mine... What the what!? The rattle started at about 50k miles or thereabouts. Then, to my absolute amazement, I found my original extended warranty I bought and it was 6 years, not 3, like I thought. I have 69,700 miles on my 2018 and i was 4 months and 5k miles to the expiration! Thank you God! Saved me $3k out of pocket. $100 deductible.
Known problems for 8 YEARS (11-19 model yrs) and FORD still hasn’t figured it out??? Shame on you Ford! I’m a 2019 Raptor owner here and had the cam phaser rattle at 9K miles. I’m at 12k now, fingers crossed it’s fixed. Thanks for putting this video out. Great info!
My 2019 3.5 F150 has less than 3000 miles on it now. I have a lot of automobiles. At 2200 miles after an oil change it rattled like a diesel one morninng on cold start up. I change the oil every 8 months. I noticed when changing the oil the Mobile One oil filter that I was using the filter oil holes were smaller than the Ford Motorcraft oil filters recommended for this truck in the Ford owners manual. So I figured less oil flow with the smaiiler holes. I drain the synthetic oil and filled the motor up with 6 quarts of Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic 5W-30 and installed the Motorcraft oil filter. It works well so far with only a slight tick tick tick on cold start. I can live with that.
Glad I'm not the only younger tech out there that feels the same way about not tryna risk it for the biscuit!! I tell people all the time, don't make ME half ass your repair, because I WILL NOT back it up!! 🔧🔧🔧🔧 Great video, edited nicely for clarity and humor, love it!
Thanks! Your theory that oil is lacking during start is correct. I have been starting my 2018 navigator with the gas petal fully depressed to prevent starting and let it time out then start it. very little noise. When I forget I get the major rattle. I have the Lincoln extended warranty and yes they placed a software update that did nothing. I have 78,000 miles and run out at 100,000
I'm a Ford tech in the Houston, TX area and I want to share what we have been seeing. First, the 21B10 recall is a go again. There's a new supplement to it that is a little bit more than just reprogramming and I'll explain why. What seemed like a transmission shutter, was actually the engine. According to hotline, the new PCM program alters the oil pressure and a shutter is experienced between 1200-1500 rpm on some engines after reprogram. When working with hotline and our local FSE, we found the shutter to be observed in the power balance test in that RPM range. In fact, when you look at the recall supplement, it will have you monitor power balance at 1200 RPM after reprogramming. If a shutter is experienced after programming, we are to reprogram it back to the previous file. Anyways, after further testing in collaboration with hotline and FSE, we found that the camshaft mega caps are leaking. Ford already has updated the heads to fix this, but as you can probably guess...they are on back order. The old mega caps were secured with only three bolts. The new heads come with 4 bolt mega caps. On the trucks we had shuttering issues BEFORE 21B10 was reactivated, we were instructed by hotline/FSE to replace heads and cams. Now, they probably will not have anyone do this for now because they came up with a way to reprogram back to the old PCM file. So, you are right that oil pressure is causing these phasers on the 3.5 GTDIs to fail. They are pretty much the same phasers found on the 2.7s, but I have yet to do phasers on a 2.7. My guess is that as supply for the new heads gets stronger, that Ford will either release an FSA or TSB to replace the heads and phasers and maybe cams. On one of these engines, when I took off the passenger head and cams I found the mega cap bearing and journal of the intake cam heavily scored. Probably from low oil pressure. It was a 2017 F150 with about 75000 miles. I would agree that a Melling oil pump would be a waste. You could have all the oil flow in the world, but if either of the mega caps are leaking, you ain't gonna have sufficient pressure for the phasers and they'll wear out internally like they do right now anyways. Hope this helps.
This would seem to be what happened to my 3.5.. I was one of the unfortunate soaks whose engine started making a rattle at about 103k. Since I couldn’t afford the extreme cost of the dealer repair I decided to give it a go on my own. When I finally got the right hand valve cover removed I immediately Noticed the cam shaft (mega cap? ) forward retainer had obvious signs of high heat as the oil returning from that area had darkened the mega cap and the edge of the head under the cap. I really wanted to pull that cap and check the cam journal but time and cash 💰 prevented me. In any case I replaced everything that even remotely had anything to do with timing the engine phasers tensioners guides chain crank gear VVT gizmos and many TTY bolts. I consider that repair a success but We now have what sounds like turbo blades dragging the turbo housings on startup but the other noises have stopped. I love the power this tiny engine makes but reliability leaves much to be desired
@@wayneschmidt9620 what you’re referring to is mega cap. How often are you changing the oil? Most Fore techs agree that the intervals that Ford puts out is far to long. Pretty much all the ecoboosts engines run pretty hot and the oil deteriorated faster than Ford’s naturally aspirated engines. 5000 miles is, in my opinion, the absolute maximum and that’s if it’s primary long highway mile trips. Otherwise, 3000-4000 I believe is optimal. Changing oil more often won’t solve the phaser issue. I’ve done phasers on discolored/sludged engines and I’ve done them on engines so clean you could eat off them. More frequent changes will however prevent the engine from absorbing the heat that you observed with your megacap. As far as turbo goes, check the play in the shaft by moving the compressor wheels up/ down & in/out. A wee bit of play is fine, but more than that means they need to be replaced. Wouldn’t surprise me at over 100k miles that either or both turbos are on their way out.
I'm near the Houston area and am curious if you came across my 2017 that had the update and a shudder that I FINALLY traded in as i was tired of waiting for Ford to pull their head out of their ass and do anything about it. I had the shudder since January 2021 when the TSB was first dropped and the shudder got worse and worse and Ford FINALLY accepted responsibility after denying they had anything to do with it for months and I paid for a few different services by the dealership that were supposed to fix it but never did. I also wasn't refunded for any of the money spent trying to fix their screw up. Regardless of all that the cam phasers were swapped twice on the same part of the motor because once it was swapped the new one immediately blew out and i ended up having to replace the timing chain as well for loss of tension prevention. Mine was around 75k so it would be coincidental of you were to have worked on mine lol. White 2017 Lariat 502A sport package. I love finding out later how completely crap the situation is because i was told there wouldn't be any problems down the road due to the issue and the shudder..i guess Ferd and their dealerships are fortune tellers, idk. Sounds like the 3.5 is F'd and should be kept away from. At least they NOW allow them to return to the previous version because when I asked for that, i was told Ford would not allow them to do that.
@@marks3036 Who would want to own one of these engines?? They have had nothing but problems since they came out with this engines. It is either Ford crap or just comes along with this complicated an engine.
Just watched this and your newer video, very well done. I own a 2017 F150 and while I like the truck for the most part these cam phasers are just crazy. Mine went first at 29,000 miles after 3 years of normal driving. Dealer fixed it under warranty. This past weekend I rolled over to 82,000 miles and the noise started. Our area Ford dealer quoted me 4200 as long as it's just the phasers and never mentioned the extended warranty Ford offered so maybe I could save 33% . Waiting to get a quote from an independent shop after Christmas when I have time. Other than that I had to replace the water pump at 71000 miles and that stupid rack assembly for the sunroof that I never open; too may plastic parts that break!
Mason, I just finished doing a phaser job on a 2018 F-150, with 85K. The phasers wouldn't "lock" and it would cause the valve train to "SNAP" as I was barring the engine over. The cams would literally rotate in the phasers, due to valve springs tension rotating the cams during rolling the engine over. Quite surprising to observe. New to your channel. Nice to see someone that's going "take over" after Ford Technicians my age (54) retire. Been in the Ford Dealerships since 1988....... I have witness a LOT of changes over these 35 years! Patrick
As someone who did the phasers at 150,000 miles I decided to wait on oil pump to be cheap. 158,000 miles car doing the same symptoms. Ford diagnosed it as failing oil pump, when the oil pumps start to go out, and the engine gets over 150,000. It's easy to have the same symptoms as phaser rattle. I changed all 4 of my work trucks oil pumps with melling high volume. All trucks have over 250,000. Run great. None of the other trucks I changed oil pump on ever had phaser rattle.
@@FlyingWrenches13 I have the 2018 f150 with the 5.0 coyote. I have the cold start rattle every morning and doesn’t seem to give me any issues but this past week I noticed it was way noisier than usual and I’m wondering if it’s detrimental? I’m just wondering if it’s something like the hammy tick where it’s just what this engine does. It does knock too, I bought this truck last December and I kinda feel like they screwed me on this deal. It runs great but those are the two main things that bother my about the truck.
Holy Cow, how did I just now find this channel?? This is great information, Thank you so much. I am going to forward this to my Local lame brain Ford Dealerships here in Northern CA. I have been dealing with this issue since February 2021. 2017 Ford F-150 with 40K miles. Rattles at cold start up, brought the truck in for service, they knew exactly what the issue was, the service advisor told me 30 seconds into my describing the issue. As soon as I got the truck back the vibration between 1200 & 1500 RPM started. I brought the truck back and the dealership told me they could not duplicate the issue. I asked if a mechanic could go on a test drive with me since I can make it happen every time. I was told No, due to Covid they were not allowed to conduct test drives with customers. immediately
Wow. First off, great video. Thanks for sharing this and...being honest. Even though I am not a Ford fan, it builds a lot of respect to see a dealer tech go into this detail and be honest about it.
Great info! Gonna take mine in next week and hopefully it gets fixed. 2018 f150 62,000 miles was previously reprogrammed to address the low speed shudder. Looking forward to it running smoothly
I do depress the pedal down for 5 seconds while I turn Push the start button then let go of the gas pedal and it starts but does not rattle I I did this for a while until I had the opportunity to actually change the phasers I want to thank you for explaining everything about the phasers and believe me this Trick worked for a while save me some time Thank you and keep doing those videos
Does this just prolong the life of the chain and prevent any further stretching/damage? I’ve noticed that mine does rattle on occasion (usually after sitting for a few consecutive days) so I too have implemented this technique but was wondering what the exact purpose is other than not hearing the rattle. Thanks for any advice you may offer.
@@FlyingWrenches13 How can you not be, the Iron block LS is the best engine ever made. No other engine can take more HP stock then the 4.8L stock iron block. 1480HP is what Trucks magazine got it up to.
Only Gm has lifter failure a lot more than these and before the first oil change at that. Dohc isn’t hard to work on either. And no pushrod running 7s unopened from the factory like a coyote.
I don't want to dig out my records, but my 2018 Expedition developed this problem around 30K miles. I never pulled a trailer nor drove off road. My VCT phasers were replaced under warranty, but still, what a huge disappointment and attack on the confidence I previously had in my vehicle. The dealer said the parts they put back in had some modification(s). Thanks for the explanation!
Awesome video! My wifes 2019 3.5 has 30k miles on it now. Started rattling around 25k miles. Currently waiting on parts. Seems the longer we wait, the louder it gets every cold start. Also have the transmission hard shifting issues and rough idle.
Just had to do this on mine. 2017 3.5l ecoboost with 74k miles. New cam phasers then had the shudder, took it back for the reprogram and now everything feels a lot better.
push the throttle pedal to the floor, crank the engine for 5 seconds ( it builds oil pressure during cranking ) then remove foot from throttle & start engine.no rattling due to immediate oil pressure when it starts.its a cheap way to prelube your engine before it starts.
Just hit 60,000 miles yesterday and have done this since I got it at 19,000. Never had a rattle. Just a little extra step to possibly save the engine.....I'm ok with that.
Thank you for the tip - 2019 with 17k and a rattle at start up - reprogrammed by the dealer with no effect. Are these trucks good otherwise? I drove GM until this truck, but switched because my GM's always rusted away in 10 years.
@@rveerman1800 I love mine. Don't really see much that goes bad on them other than the timing chain rattle. But letting the oil pressure build before cranking helps take care of that.
So I have a 2018 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost with 118k miles, so I know I am past the warranty. I do have the 2nd generation ecoboost. I took my truck in during the recall and the Ford dealership programmed the truck. It really didn't do much and since the truck would only rattle at start up, I just lived with it. I changed the oil regularly so I never had any issues. It started throwing a code this past January 2022. P0022 so I replaced the camshaft position sensors. Right away it threw another code which was for the VCT's (oil solenoids). I took it to my mechanic and he replaced them. I picked up the truck and it still threw the exact same codes. It was still rattling (more now) and the mechanic said it was probably the phasers. He refused to crack open the engine and referred me to the Ford dealership. I am mechanically inclined and I didn't want to spend $4k so I tackled the job myself. When I cracked open the engine I noticed the cams were not synced with each other within each bank (1,2). The exhaust cam and the intake cam for bank 1 were not synced with each other so the camshaft tool would not work. The same for bank 2. I figured it was the programming based on the recall. I lined up my timing marks for the camshaft, and then the phasers on each bank. I had to rotate the camshafts to sync with each other so I could use the camshaft position tool for each bank. I installed the new (most recent) phasers and lined up the timing chains, guides, etc. and put everything back together. The truck starts up and is running strong but occasionally idles down then dies. The gas mileage is slightly lower as well. It is throwing numerous codes with them being for the parts that I replaced that are brand new. The local mechanic cleared the codes but the truck is not recognizing the new parts. I took it to the Ford dealship and they want $3.5k to verify the timing plus the cost of the parts. They say it's not a programming issue and the truck had to have jumped time. Is this true? The truck is running fine and strong other than the codes and when the truck dies occasionally when it idles down. Are there any other possible issues other than timing? I would have thought the truck wouldn't run or run very rough all of the time if it was timing. If I pay the Ford dealership can I expect a warranty? If I was to open the engine back up should the timing tool work to sync the camshafts for each bank? I don't mind spending the money as long as I get a warranty and if I know that I am not being taken advantage of. Does it sound like the Ford dealership is taking advantage of me? Thank you.
Ford Tech from Denver here, surprised you pulled the cab to do these. Ive done so many of these in the truck i couldnt imagine pulling the cab would be much easier or faster. I'm consistently getting them done is around 4 hours.
I'm a tech at an independent shop, I did a set of chains and phasers on an ecoboost f150 and just thinking back to the intercooler piping on the turbos, I'd rather have the cab off too
I'm a Honda tech who had to replace the water pump on a 17 explorer with a 3.5l. I dropped the engine out the bottom onto a table. I didn't see another way to get the job done correctly and quickly lol. I can see on this one hes working on the pump is external, the one i delt with was a chain driven pump under the timing cover.
Yeah it’s definitely not faster to pull the cab but it does make everything much more accessible and overall I just feel like I can do a better job at re sealing everything with cab off.
Late to this channel but we just bought a 2021 expedition max platinum with that 3.5 in it. Great info and detail. I am older gear head and love seeing the younger mechanics really gettin into their work like this. Not sure if my 3.5 will have this issue since it’s only got 20k on it but time will tell.
This bad program is what got me. I commented on one of your other videos with a shudder issues. After the dealer jerked me around for 3 and a half months letting my truck sit on the lot I finally took my truck to another dealer. The maintenance manager knew if was the program with in 30 seconds of me talking to him. As of two weeks ago the program is still not out..... hopefully it wont damage the transmission. (Pinnacle Ford in nicholasville ky is an absolute joke) Thanks for making this video!
What would be the concern if I did not do the repair and lived with the noise? Or is this a must do? Lastly, have there been issues after the repair with the issue coming back? Thanks for the video.
"before going out an buying yourself a Chevrolet....." LoL priceless! Great content, I like your approach to the subject. I drive GM but I am doing this repair for a buddy. They all have their problems, this is just a bigger than usual one for Ford. These timing chains are a big money maker for good mechs, soak that gravy up while it lasts.
It is possible to swap over to the Melling oil pump ($135 at Summit) without dropping the pan. It's a bit of a pain because of the pickup can be done without dropping the pan in about 30 minutes or less. On transverse mounted engines (Lincoln MKS, MKT, Taurus SHO) the pick-up drops right out of the way so it is a 5 to 10 minute job once you are in there.
I’ve heard of a few people with 2.7’s experiencing the rattle but I’ve never seen one myself. I guess it’s a little more rare for those engines. Maybe the 20 model will do better for ya.
…again customers are Beta testing Ford products. I have a 2019 supercrew with 20,000 miles, I was notified of the problem the dealership stated the PCM Reprogram had been canceled as you stated, looking forward to that repair. I also have a 10R80 transmission whine issue, under the SSM 47812 the dealership and Ford hotline said it’s not an issue won’t affect durability. We’ll see. Your video was very informative I subscribed to your channel and look forward to future post. Thank you
Thank you! There was a TSB on the 20 models for a whine noise caused by a faulty planetary. May be worth asking your dealer about. I’ve put a few in for noise issues and noise went away on all of them.
watching your has convinced me not to buy the low mile expedition I was thinking about buying. feel it was a blessing that I saw your videos. I will never look at another 3.5 ford eco. I almost went back to Ford after divorcing it in 1994. I see now that nothing has changed for the better in 30 years
On mine I hit the driver door lock/unlock switch 3X, ignition on/off 3X, lights on/off once, honk twice, open/close the driver side door and start. GTG for 1 week worse case scenario.
@@FlyingWrenches13 kept talking and the last two sets failed to the point they are the cams. All service work was done at one of the best service shops in the south. Ford never could get my truck right so they gave up I guess. My first and likely last Ford lol
Great video. I’m a tech in North West Arkansas been doing this for 9 years with Ford. Over the past couple years this is one of my favorite jobs to do. I share the same ideas with you on why these go bad and how the programs don’t work at all and replacing all the timing components under CP. But there’s one thing I gotta ask. How do you make any money on this job pulling the cab?
Omg this video explains my truck issues. 4:40 is exactly what happened to my truck. They were never able to fix it and caused more problems the transmission shudder feels like you’re on the shoulder of the highway. My teeth rattle sometimes it is so bad. Glad Ford did the right thing and took it back.
@@FlyingWrenches13 it did tremendously. I thought I was crazy and I am pretty sure so did everyone else. I can’t tell you how exact you were with the issue, I experienced everything you described even after the 2 recalls were done. There is a 3rd one but I guess they will know how to fix it once they get it back
Great video! I had a 2011 F150 with a 3.5 Ecoboost. Bought it new. At 42,000 mi the engine started making a rattle noise at startup. I was 1 month out of warranty. The dealer said my timing chain was going. I paid $1800 to have it fixed. Ford absorbed some of the cost. I bought a 2018 F150 new with same (updated) engine and now at 32,000 mi am having the rattle noise at startup. I got a recall notice this week and will be taking it in. I saw a video that if you hold down the break & gas pedals while cranking the engine it will get oil pressure to the engine before starting. I tried it and it worked. No noise. Please let me know what you think. I will still be taking it in for the recall but am getting discussed with Ford's engine problems especially on young well maintained engines. I've been a Ford guy for many years but am losing faith.
Yeah the gas pedal method does work for preventing the noise. Go have the recall performed and then if it still rattles, you can have your phasers replaced under warranty.
Wifes toyota also has vct rattle on start either cold or hot. Noticed it decreases a bit with higher viscosity oil or additive. Changing oil to next vidcosity grade up is much easier and cheaper than changing oil pumps. And likely reduces valve gear wear. The light oil specified for most engines these days was thought up by govt clerks working on CAFE numbers, not lubrication engineers.
Great video. I have a 2011 3.5 Ecoboost with 185K miles. Never had any of these issues. I use Mobile One full Syn oil. I just had my water pump replaced.
Hi, thanks for the info. Would you be willing to post a parts list for this repair including chains,tensioners and gaskets needed for this job? Thank you!
Great video. Was in process of buying one thankfully i always run a scan pulled the history had cam phaser code and tranny code. Saved me thousands. In my opinion the auto start not a good idea. If was going to do should of had electric prime pump. And the fact you cant permanently shut it off without a programmer. A gm 5.3 will live 9 lives before any ecoboost. Dad was service advisor for ford but i just cant back them.
So back in the day when I worked on crappy Maseratis we had this same issue and new phasers wouldn't fix it. We had to send the front cam bearing block off that controls the oil flow into the phaser and have a check ball put in to stop the oil from bleeding off when the vehicle sat overnight or longer then about 6hrs. That was an instant fix. Now we always replaced the phasers when inside bc it's unknown if any damage occurred from it slapping around but the check ball was the true fix. I'm happy with my old 2v bump pulling a cab off to service the engine that's just poor engineering to me but I've always worked on German and exotics so maybe the domestics do it differently now.
@@infotechsailor maybe they could fit an electric oil pump to prime the engine before it is started. Same as they do with priming the fuel system before a start.
@@infotechsailor I haven't been inside one of these engines to see how the oil flows to the adjusters so it might not even be an option to do for this engine. Every engine is different so what worked for one might not work for another unfortunately.
2019 with about 25k miles gets the startup rattle of the truck sits for a few days. Retired so don’t drive much. Gas pedal trick works every time to build oil pressure. No engine knock on start. Change oil every 3500, slight tick at operating temp near end of oil change intervals Have sent 3 samples to blackstone and have all come back perfect. No excessive tin, copper or iron. So apparently nothing is wearing to be deposited in the oil
@@FlyingWrenches13 I really think there is metal to metal contact in the phaser area but It doesn’t seem to have shear or shaving. my filters look good too at changes.
In February 2023, I took my 2018 Ford Raptor to the local Ford dealer in central California, and they quoted me $4,250 to replace the VCT units (parts and labor). I bought it used and from the very beginning it would make a rattling noise from cold starts. The Ford dealer also quoted me $1,070 to replace the water/coolant pump (parts and labor). I agree with him, its best to invest in your money (out of warranty parts) on your daily driver truck and not spend on other extra performance items.
Everyone is talking about the 3.5. Just had Ford replace phasers on a 2021 2.7 with 1,400 miles on it. Ended up not having a truck for 3 weeks. Two weeks for an appointment with the dealer then one week at the dealer. Ford Customerservice is supposedly giving an extra 2 years on my warranty and the phaser replacement was covered under warranty. Good luck if you don't have a warranty!!
Another mechanic had the same theory about the phasers- oil pressure issue. He mentioned that Ford should get the PCM to increase the oil circulation to the phasers & timing chain at start up. I don't know what that means, but what you said, seems logical to me. (non-pro mechanic) I would do this to my 2014 F-150 3.5 ecoboost. I got 198,000 miles on mine and running really good, but waiting for the noise to get louder as time goes bye. I have no history on my truck, only what the VIN # report has. But I would love to know what services were done on my truck, just to see what else did they fix on it that I don't need to do to it. My truck sound good for the year and mileage, so I'm hoping that he took care of all the recalls and problems. It's too bad you live so far, I would love for YOU to do the job, since you seem to know what you're doing. (Take pride in your work)
I waited the whole video to find out how to fix anything with the VCT rattle. I just got the same talk from my service writer and he didn’t fix it either. I think you have a future, son, as a service writer.
I have a 17 transit 250 with the 3.5 eco with close to 70,000 so far no issues thankfully . A good friend of mine has a 11 f-150 eco with over 300,000 miles and has never been in to, other then oil changes
You just added a new subscriber! I just bought a ‘19 3.5 with 99k miles and did not notice the cold (and warm) start rattle until after I brought it home. The dealer included a 3k mile power train warranty. Do you think I should attempt to have them replace the phasers even if there is no code thrown? The rattle is LOUD. Otherwise I’m in love with the truck.
Same boat 2014 Ford F-150 Eco boost 3.5 runs amazing. Only small rattle on cold start. Just tried the trick of building oil pressure by holding down accelerator and it worked perfect
Is it possible to program the ecu to extend cranking time (before firing) to allow more time to build oil pressure? I would think it would only need an extra second or two to get the oil moving enough to take up any bleed-off from those phasers or tensioner?
I’m sure it is possible to do that but it wouldn’t be the best way to fix it. Longer crank time would lead to starter failure eventually. I think what they are doing with this program is having the pcm demand a different position from the phasers at startup that won’t make it rattle. I’m not sure what position would make it not rattle. Unfortunately there isn’t any publications telling us the differences between the stock tune and the updated pcm file they are getting us to put in them under the 21b10 recall.
Thanks for posting this video! I have a few questions. Are the VCT'S capable of changing the timing enough to cause the pistons to contact the valves? Also would the VCT leaks eventually become bad enough to affect timing while the engine is running?
Thank you! The only way for a valve to contact a piston is if the timing is off. Phaser can swing full retard or advance without and valve contact. To the second question, I’ve never seen that happen. Most of the time it’s only on cold start.
I had F150 with the 3rd gen Coyote 5.0. Over retardation and advancement from sludge buildup. Warranty only replaced the solenoid. That sludge is eventually going to cause real damage including bent parts.
So is the only issue a rattle at startup in the phaser and nothing actually getting damaged in the engine? In other words what if I just live with this and not fix it?
I have a 2012 3.5 that rattles for about a second on cold start up. I thought it might be the timing chain is stretched and it takes a second for the tensioners to tighten it up. If I get a new timing chain and tensioners should I mess with the VCT Phasers at all?
Great Video... I appreciate your knowledge. This is the second time I am taking my 2018 EB to the dealer for the rattle issue. The first time was at 48K miles at which time they changed timing chain and tensors. I have it in again today for same rattle at 72000. They are replacing the phasers at 60% coverage from FORD. I am not a car tech guy so the question I have is that if this happens again do I really need to take it back to FORD. Can I continue to drive the truck without issue with the cold start rattle? Will I do damage to the engine or the transmission with the continued rattle? Thank in advance!!
Great video! I've been dealing with this issue on my 2018 for about a year now. It's getting worse/more frequent. Your theory sounds good! However, my truck does it when I first start it and ALSO when it's at normal operating temperature. I can be going out the interstate, steady speed, and it'll do it. It does it going up hills. It does it when I accelerate gradually coming out of a curve. I have noticed it does it more often when it's cold outside. Cold meaning around 30 degrees or colder. Do you think your theory might apply in my situation? Thanks!
My 2014 f-150 with the 3.5 Eco started the rattle at about 45k miles. I now have 55k. Most of the time it rattles on start up to various degree after the truck has not been started for more than 12 hrs. Occasionally it can sit for several days and no rattle on start up, some times a slight rattle after sitting at work for 8-1/2 hrs. I saw another vid that stated the rattle is the chain slapping against the inside of the timing cover and it will eventually wear holes in the cover. I don't drive my truck every day and don't want to tear into it at this time with only 55k miles. I came up with a work around that is a slight hassle but it works for me because I mostly only use the truck two or three times a week. Before cold start I remove the #78 15 amp fuse to the ignition ecm from the fuse station under the hood. I then crank the engine normally with the key for about 10 seconds until I see pressure on the oil gauge in the dash. I then return the #78 fuse and start the engine normally and always without a rattle. I bit of hassle, but it works and it also pre-lubes the engine to full oil pressure before startup. I run Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 with Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer and change oil every 4-5k miles. Next oil change I will run Motorcraft 5w30 to see if the seals in the phasers leak down less with semi-synthetic oil. Synthetic oil molecules are many times smaller that mineral base oil molecules and I am hoping the semi-synth Motorcraft oil fixes this.
Did you know you can do the same thing by holding the accelerator pedal at WOT? It will kill the fuel injectors and allow you to crank the engine without starting. I’ve never tried to see if the rattle has went away by doing this before starting though. Let us know if the synthetic blend makes any difference!
@@FlyingWrenches13 Thank you for the wide open throttle tip. I did that this morning until the oil pressure needle hit normal pressure (about 10 seconds of starter crank), then started the engine normally with no rattle. Wish I knew of some kind of inline pre-lube pump for the 3.5 Eco.
Warrantied my F150 a little after 36,000. I have since taught my self to brake gas start and cycle the engine to get the cam phasers some oil before ignition.
I know it’s very bizarre, I did phasers and timing on 2018 navigator, 2018 raptor, working on a 19 f150, all 3 are my vehicles and all went to the dealer within a month of ownership.
I just completed this whole procedure about 2 months ago. $ 3600.00. Water pump, oil pump and all things timing belt. 4 days later fuel pump. Expensive month. Runs real good now, but after experiencing Ford’s built in obsolescence and technic for making everything expensive to repair, it’ll be the last Ford I own.
Good video and good conversation here in the comments. Ford should be doing a better job in regards to extending the warranty for the VCT phasers. They are aware of the problem and don’t have a proper fix yet, and they are being stingy with the extended warranty coverage. Not a good way to stand by your product.
2017+ 3.5 ecoboost: leaky oil pans, rattling timing chains, useless 10r80 transmission…. I see why people are going to the outdated 5.7 I force from Toyota. A $40k+ truck shouldn’t need thousands of $$ in repair work before 100k miles
Good info. My BRAND NEW 2022 BRONCO 2.3 liter manual has this rattle, so obviously Ford has not figured out how to fix this issue. I've read content where other Bronco owners are having the same rattle during startup. Your theory seems right about the oil pressure as I've noticed that the rattling during colder weather takes longer to go away. At least now I can seem like I know what I'm talking about with the service department instead of saying... "it sounds like Jacob Marley from the movie Scrooge, lightly rattling his chains". Thank you!
So disappointing how ford has handled this issue. For the record my f150 is the best truck I've ever driven... except cracked ds valve cover, oil pan leaking constantly, turbo coolant line layout, cam phasers, timing chain slack, intake leaks, etc... for these reasons I'll probably by an na gmc. I know they have their issues too but they are easier to work on for the diy guy and no BS as fords been doing for over a decade. Like I said my 18 platinum is great other than the most important issues, reliability. Good stuff man thanks for keeping it real.
Wait, wait, FORD “ Tested “ this engine when it first came out through the BAJA desert 🌵 and everything then tore it down and everything was fine??? Ford been making engines over 100 years and Honda and Toyota STILL make a better engine? HOW? WHY? WHEN is Ford going to get their shit together and make a GAS 400,000 mile engine w/o a MAJOR repair? WHEN? And why people STILL buy and support this CRAP? And pay good money for it
Honda sure they are reliable. Get real tired of hearing how reliable Toyota’s are As a mechanic I know Toyota’s to be pretty junky. Which is bad when u also have no power to go with it
Mines loud enough that people ask me if it has a diesel in it. I’ve learned to live with it for now. I’m at 180k in the 2018 3.5, so far: -cam sensors went out at 170k -throttle body at 175k -spark plugs and wire 90k and 175k
@@negligennt the truck is a beast I’m currently at 193k. Any truck is gonna cost money to run past 200k. I’m not a fan of the 10speed but the motor is strong and worth it.
I Have a shop in the DC Area your spot on very good info for the consumer 4000 is average with everything that should be replaced. I impressed with your knowledge good job 👍 keep up the good work
As I am not a mechanic, I watched another video where the Ford tech showed the little hardened PLASTIC peace locking up and or breaking in the phaser causing the issue. The gentleman recording the video looked at the tech and said so if this part wasn’t plastic would we have the issue? The tech just looked at him for a few seconds with a smile and continued working. So yes, a $.15 plastic piece turned to some sort of metal would solve the entire issue according to this guy.
Looks just like a typical day in my world, between doing these and short blocking '17 to '19 Escape 1.5s .......only difference being, I don't have a bunch of guys helping me when I'm into one of these. I'm glad it looks like I'm not the only one who lifts cabs to do this job. Lifting the body on the Navigators sure is a little bit more work than the cab on the F-150s. These GEN II version 3.5s have had this problem from new though. I've heard that same rattle at start up, even on brand new units coming in for PDI.
Hello sir you are making video on a 2017 Ford F-150 EcoBoost that smokes blue smoke when on cold start. A lot of people saying that replacing the turbo the left turbo would take care of it but some saying that they have to replace only the oil line.. but you're the expert.
i saw somewhere on a forum that you can build up oil pressure by pressing the gas and turning on the ignition to crank the engine and push the oil in the engine before it starts up do y’all think this could work i have an old ford crown victoria
Yea. I called them about a close to warranty cracked piston on a mustang GT (I was sitting AT IDLE at a stoplight at the time). "Unfortunately Mr xxx, we have no 'program' for you. Thank you for being a Ford customer." 108 DAYS LATER, and $10.5K, and I got it back. 6 weeks later, it began to stall while in motion (50 mph or so) if returning to idle. It has been at one dealership service dept or the other ever since ( over 6 months). Phasers on driver's side have begun to throw codes. Exhaust position sensor and control solenoid replaced. Now intake cam on same side going nuts. Im losing my mind.
I have a 2018 f150 platinum , I’ve had the cam phasers replaced twice. They first set lasted about 40k miles before rattling again. The second only lasted 25k and not only does the engine sound like it’s coming apart, I now have 6 DTC,s low oil pressure, under boost condition, camshaft sensor intermittent etc.etc.etc. I’m ready to burn this one to the ground, easier to try to fix all these issues and all this started after dealer changed out phasers the second time. 25 k miles in and now all this. Here are codes. P061A, P0524, P0365, P0369, P0299, P0390, I’ve replaced all camshaft sensors and still codes come back. Oil changed by dealer every interval. Trying to get repaired, but now like an act of congress. Hope this helps some folks. I’ve been a Ford man my whole life but this may be my last.
I hope that Goes well honor the repair on my truck. I just bought it and the previous owner never brought it in for the PCM reprogram. I saw a video from when this all first started that the truck had to be taken in by like August of 2021 to be eligible for the CSP.
2020 explorer st dealer changed phasers for rattle described in your video ,at 4000 miles motor blew shortly there after and was warranties with long block
I have a 2018 3.5 exobooat in my f150. Did not have the diesel sound rattle but heard from friend that did on his 2017. They replaced it under warranty at 12k miles. During the start of covid. Took a little time to get the parts, but it's good to go now.
I just wanted to give you a big “THANK YOU!!!”. I had this issue and did what you said by contacting Ford! I had 88k miles and they paid 60% and since it took a month gave me a 3yr-36k mike Warrenty. If it wasn’t for your video I would gave gas to pay &3500! I owe ya a beer if we ever run into each other! Thanks buddy and keep up the good videos!!
What number did you call? I called the customer satisfaction team and they just told me the cam phaser is not a recall
Today, I'm confident that my 2018 F-150 received the old style cam phasers at 58,750 (Oct-2020) under TSB 20-2191 and today (Oct-2023) the F-150 is at the dealer replacing them again at 126,500...with the updated version. This video is gold - thanks Mason! - as I am waiting on the call from the dealer to discuss what other parts I want replaced. Loved the part of video discussing the repair for those of us who are way-out-of-warranty and what else you should consider replacing with this level of repair.
Solid information, thank you for the video. My Vehicle is a 2018 F-150 w/60K miles, Ford paid 66%. They called me mid repair and said the valve cover was cracked and I would need to pay for it, an extra $130, I assumed the tech broke it while removing it but I felt it wasn't worth disputing. In the end my total was $670 which I feel pretty good about. In so many ways this is the best truck I have ever owned, my whole family loves it and is comfortable while traveling, I have 0wned quite a few Fords and Chevrolets but this one stands out as being the highest quality, with this one exception. I wished Ford would figure out the Cam Phaser deal, Cam Phasers plagued the Ford trucks since 2004, maybe not the identical issue but the same part none the less.
Glad to hear you got some paid for! Yeah Ford is really slow it seems to correcting an issue that so many other makes have had almost no issues with for years
One of my valve covers cracked and showed up as a leak after vct replacement. Fortunately for me mine was at 56k so Ford paid
Who did you talk to so they would pay the 66%?
Great information. I'm going through this as I type. Just got the call from the dealer that they need to do the whole phaser job. I had the software program done a while back. No help. The 21N03 didn't apply to mine... What the what!? The rattle started at about 50k miles or thereabouts. Then, to my absolute amazement, I found my original extended warranty I bought and it was 6 years, not 3, like I thought. I have 69,700 miles on my 2018 and i was 4 months and 5k miles to the expiration! Thank you God! Saved me $3k out of pocket. $100 deductible.
Known problems for 8 YEARS (11-19 model yrs) and FORD still hasn’t figured it out??? Shame on you Ford! I’m a 2019 Raptor owner here and had the cam phaser rattle at 9K miles. I’m at 12k now, fingers crossed it’s fixed. Thanks for putting this video out. Great info!
Thank you! Wow that’s about as early on as I’ve heard about one rattling. Most of the time they at least make it to 30K.
@FlyingWrenches13 I'm considering a 2017 Raptor, but it has 90k miles so I don't know
My 2019 3.5 F150 has less than 3000 miles on it now. I have a lot of automobiles. At 2200 miles after an oil change it rattled like a diesel one morninng on cold start up. I change the oil every 8 months. I noticed when changing the oil the Mobile One oil filter that I was using the filter oil holes were smaller than the Ford Motorcraft oil filters recommended for this truck in the Ford owners manual. So I figured less oil flow with the smaiiler holes. I drain the synthetic oil and filled the motor up with 6 quarts of Pennzoil Platinum Full Synthetic 5W-30 and installed the Motorcraft oil filter. It works well so far with only a slight tick tick tick on cold start. I can live with that.
Glad I'm not the only younger tech out there that feels the same way about not tryna risk it for the biscuit!! I tell people all the time, don't make ME half ass your repair, because I WILL NOT back it up!! 🔧🔧🔧🔧
Great video, edited nicely for clarity and humor, love it!
Thank you! I feel the same way.
Thanks! Your theory that oil is lacking during start is correct. I have been starting my 2018 navigator with the gas petal fully depressed to prevent starting and let it time out then start it. very little noise. When I forget I get the major rattle. I have the Lincoln extended warranty and yes they placed a software update that did nothing. I have 78,000 miles and run out at 100,000
I'm a Ford tech in the Houston, TX area and I want to share what we have been seeing.
First, the 21B10 recall is a go again. There's a new supplement to it that is a little bit more than just reprogramming and I'll explain why. What seemed like a transmission shutter, was actually the engine. According to hotline, the new PCM program alters the oil pressure and a shutter is experienced between 1200-1500 rpm on some engines after reprogram. When working with hotline and our local FSE, we found the shutter to be observed in the power balance test in that RPM range. In fact, when you look at the recall supplement, it will have you monitor power balance at 1200 RPM after reprogramming. If a shutter is experienced after programming, we are to reprogram it back to the previous file.
Anyways, after further testing in collaboration with hotline and FSE, we found that the camshaft mega caps are leaking. Ford already has updated the heads to fix this, but as you can probably guess...they are on back order. The old mega caps were secured with only three bolts. The new heads come with 4 bolt mega caps. On the trucks we had shuttering issues BEFORE 21B10 was reactivated, we were instructed by hotline/FSE to replace heads and cams. Now, they probably will not have anyone do this for now because they came up with a way to reprogram back to the old PCM file.
So, you are right that oil pressure is causing these phasers on the 3.5 GTDIs to fail. They are pretty much the same phasers found on the 2.7s, but I have yet to do phasers on a 2.7. My guess is that as supply for the new heads gets stronger, that Ford will either release an FSA or TSB to replace the heads and phasers and maybe cams. On one of these engines, when I took off the passenger head and cams I found the mega cap bearing and journal of the intake cam heavily scored. Probably from low oil pressure. It was a 2017 F150 with about 75000 miles.
I would agree that a Melling oil pump would be a waste. You could have all the oil flow in the world, but if either of the mega caps are leaking, you ain't gonna have sufficient pressure for the phasers and they'll wear out internally like they do right now anyways.
Hope this helps.
Very good info. Thanks for sharing!
This would seem to be what happened to my 3.5.. I was one of the unfortunate soaks whose engine started making a rattle at about 103k. Since I couldn’t afford the extreme cost of the dealer repair I decided to give it a go on my own. When I finally got the right hand valve cover removed I immediately Noticed the cam shaft (mega cap? ) forward retainer had obvious signs of high heat as the oil returning from that area had darkened the mega cap and the edge of the head under the cap. I really wanted to pull that cap and check the cam journal but time and cash 💰 prevented me. In any case I replaced everything that even remotely had anything to do with timing the engine phasers tensioners guides chain crank gear VVT gizmos and many TTY bolts. I consider that repair a success but We now have what sounds like turbo blades dragging the turbo housings on startup but the other noises have stopped. I love the power this tiny engine makes but reliability leaves much to be desired
@@wayneschmidt9620 what you’re referring to is mega cap. How often are you changing the oil? Most Fore techs agree that the intervals that Ford puts out is far to long. Pretty much all the ecoboosts engines run pretty hot and the oil deteriorated faster than Ford’s naturally aspirated engines. 5000 miles is, in my opinion, the absolute maximum and that’s if it’s primary long highway mile trips. Otherwise, 3000-4000 I believe is optimal. Changing oil more often won’t solve the phaser issue. I’ve done phasers on discolored/sludged engines and I’ve done them on engines so clean you could eat off them. More frequent changes will however prevent the engine from absorbing the heat that you observed with your megacap.
As far as turbo goes, check the play in the shaft by moving the compressor wheels up/ down & in/out. A wee bit of play is fine, but more than that means they need to be replaced. Wouldn’t surprise me at over 100k miles that either or both turbos are on their way out.
I'm near the Houston area and am curious if you came across my 2017 that had the update and a shudder that I FINALLY traded in as i was tired of waiting for Ford to pull their head out of their ass and do anything about it. I had the shudder since January 2021 when the TSB was first dropped and the shudder got worse and worse and Ford FINALLY accepted responsibility after denying they had anything to do with it for months and I paid for a few different services by the dealership that were supposed to fix it but never did. I also wasn't refunded for any of the money spent trying to fix their screw up. Regardless of all that the cam phasers were swapped twice on the same part of the motor because once it was swapped the new one immediately blew out and i ended up having to replace the timing chain as well for loss of tension prevention. Mine was around 75k so it would be coincidental of you were to have worked on mine lol. White 2017 Lariat 502A sport package. I love finding out later how completely crap the situation is because i was told there wouldn't be any problems down the road due to the issue and the shudder..i guess Ferd and their dealerships are fortune tellers, idk. Sounds like the 3.5 is F'd and should be kept away from. At least they NOW allow them to return to the previous version because when I asked for that, i was told Ford would not allow them to do that.
@@marks3036 Who would want to own one of these engines?? They have had nothing but problems since they came out with this engines. It is either Ford crap or just comes along with this complicated an engine.
Just watched this and your newer video, very well done. I own a 2017 F150 and while I like the truck for the most part these cam phasers are just crazy. Mine went first at 29,000 miles after 3 years of normal driving. Dealer fixed it under warranty. This past weekend I rolled over to 82,000 miles and the noise started. Our area Ford dealer quoted me 4200 as long as it's just the phasers and never mentioned the extended warranty Ford offered so maybe I could save 33% . Waiting to get a quote from an independent shop after Christmas when I have time.
Other than that I had to replace the water pump at 71000 miles and that stupid rack assembly for the sunroof that I never open; too may plastic parts that break!
Mason,
I just finished doing a phaser job on a 2018 F-150, with 85K.
The phasers wouldn't "lock" and it would cause the valve train to "SNAP" as I was barring the engine over. The cams would literally rotate in the phasers, due to valve springs tension rotating the cams during rolling the engine over. Quite surprising to observe. New to your channel.
Nice to see someone that's going "take over" after Ford Technicians my age (54) retire. Been in the Ford Dealerships since 1988....... I have witness a LOT of changes over these 35 years!
Patrick
I would welcome you to Fords “quality” parts but you already know about them if you’ve been doing it that long haha
Would be better to switch from 5w30 to 5w-40 just to have thicker oil to cover the phasers?
As someone who did the phasers at 150,000 miles I decided to wait on oil pump to be cheap. 158,000 miles car doing the same symptoms. Ford diagnosed it as failing oil pump, when the oil pumps start to go out, and the engine gets over 150,000. It's easy to have the same symptoms as phaser rattle. I changed all 4 of my work trucks oil pumps with melling high volume. All trucks have over 250,000. Run great. None of the other trucks I changed oil pump on ever had phaser rattle.
I miss my ford, but I don’t miss the never ending issues and TSBs that applied to it. You do a great job man
Thank you!
@@FlyingWrenches13 I have the 2018 f150 with the 5.0 coyote. I have the cold start rattle every morning and doesn’t seem to give me any issues but this past week I noticed it was way noisier than usual and I’m wondering if it’s detrimental? I’m just wondering if it’s something like the hammy tick where it’s just what this engine does. It does knock too, I bought this truck last December and I kinda feel like they screwed me on this deal. It runs great but those are the two main things that bother my about the truck.
Holy Cow, how did I just now find this channel?? This is great information, Thank you so much. I am going to forward this to my Local lame brain Ford Dealerships here in Northern CA.
I have been dealing with this issue since February 2021. 2017 Ford F-150 with 40K miles.
Rattles at cold start up, brought the truck in for service, they knew exactly what the issue was, the service advisor told me 30 seconds into my describing the issue. As soon as I got the truck back the vibration between 1200 & 1500 RPM started. I brought the truck back and the dealership told me they could not duplicate the issue. I asked if a mechanic could go on a test drive with me since I can make it happen every time. I was told No, due to Covid they were not allowed to conduct test drives with customers.
immediately
Thanks man! They actually have a new update coming out to fix the vehicles that had the shutter problem after the first reprogram.
Wow.
First off, great video. Thanks for sharing this and...being honest. Even though I am not a Ford fan, it builds a lot of respect to see a dealer tech go into this detail and be honest about it.
Thank you!
You’re a excellent mechanic 🧰 and actually know what you’re talking about unlike 95% of “ mechanics “ out there. 👍👍👍👍 Great video
Thank you!
I second that, let's hope my dealer is half as competent... lol thanks for the video bro!
Great info! Gonna take mine in next week and hopefully it gets fixed. 2018 f150 62,000 miles was previously reprogrammed to address the low speed shudder. Looking forward to it running smoothly
I do depress the pedal down for 5 seconds while I turn Push the start button then let go of the gas pedal and it starts but does not rattle I I did this for a while until I had the opportunity to actually change the phasers I want to thank you for explaining everything about the phasers and believe me this Trick worked for a while save me some time Thank you and keep doing those videos
Does this just prolong the life of the chain and prevent any further stretching/damage? I’ve noticed that mine does rattle on occasion (usually after sitting for a few consecutive days) so I too have implemented this technique but was wondering what the exact purpose is other than not hearing the rattle. Thanks for any advice you may offer.
Exactly why I love my pushrod engines. So much easier and cheaper to work on.
I’m a LS fanboy as well.
@@FlyingWrenches13 How can you not be, the Iron block LS is the best engine ever made. No other engine can take more HP stock then the 4.8L stock iron block. 1480HP is what Trucks magazine got it up to.
@@bartekmedes8281 all that out of an engine that cost $500 at the junkyard.
Wait until that cylinder deactivation goes bad then you won't think it's so easy and cheap. Big problem on chevy engines
Only Gm has lifter failure a lot more than these and before the first oil change at that. Dohc isn’t hard to work on either. And no pushrod running 7s unopened from the factory like a coyote.
I don't want to dig out my records, but my 2018 Expedition developed this problem around 30K miles. I never pulled a trailer nor drove off road. My VCT phasers were replaced under warranty, but still, what a huge disappointment and attack on the confidence I previously had in my vehicle. The dealer said the parts they put back in had some modification(s). Thanks for the explanation!
Awesome video! My wifes 2019 3.5 has 30k miles on it now. Started rattling around 25k miles. Currently waiting on parts. Seems the longer we wait, the louder it gets every cold start. Also have the transmission hard shifting issues and rough idle.
Same here any update?
Just had to do this on mine. 2017 3.5l ecoboost with 74k miles. New cam phasers then had the shudder, took it back for the reprogram and now everything feels a lot better.
Glad to hear!
And here I am again at 114k miles and have the same issue
push the throttle pedal to the floor, crank the engine for 5 seconds ( it builds oil pressure during cranking ) then remove foot from throttle & start engine.no rattling due to immediate oil pressure when it starts.its a cheap way to prelube your engine before it starts.
I do this on my 5.4
Just hit 60,000 miles yesterday and have done this since I got it at 19,000. Never had a rattle. Just a little extra step to possibly save the engine.....I'm ok with that.
Thank you for the tip - 2019 with 17k and a rattle at start up - reprogrammed by the dealer with no effect. Are these trucks good otherwise? I drove GM until this truck, but switched because my GM's always rusted away in 10 years.
@@rveerman1800 I love mine. Don't really see much that goes bad on them other than the timing chain rattle. But letting the oil pressure build before cranking helps take care of that.
So I have a 2018 F-150 3.5 Ecoboost with 118k miles, so I know I am past the warranty. I do have the 2nd generation ecoboost. I took my truck in during the recall and the Ford dealership programmed the truck. It really didn't do much and since the truck would only rattle at start up, I just lived with it. I changed the oil regularly so I never had any issues. It started throwing a code this past January 2022. P0022 so I replaced the camshaft position sensors. Right away it threw another code which was for the VCT's (oil solenoids). I took it to my mechanic and he replaced them. I picked up the truck and it still threw the exact same codes. It was still rattling (more now) and the mechanic said it was probably the phasers. He refused to crack open the engine and referred me to the Ford dealership. I am mechanically inclined and I didn't want to spend $4k so I tackled the job myself. When I cracked open the engine I noticed the cams were not synced with each other within each bank (1,2). The exhaust cam and the intake cam for bank 1 were not synced with each other so the camshaft tool would not work. The same for bank 2. I figured it was the programming based on the recall. I lined up my timing marks for the camshaft, and then the phasers on each bank. I had to rotate the camshafts to sync with each other so I could use the camshaft position tool for each bank. I installed the new (most recent) phasers and lined up the timing chains, guides, etc. and put everything back together. The truck starts up and is running strong but occasionally idles down then dies. The gas mileage is slightly lower as well. It is throwing numerous codes with them being for the parts that I replaced that are brand new. The local mechanic cleared the codes but the truck is not recognizing the new parts. I took it to the Ford dealship and they want $3.5k to verify the timing plus the cost of the parts. They say it's not a programming issue and the truck had to have jumped time. Is this true? The truck is running fine and strong other than the codes and when the truck dies occasionally when it idles down. Are there any other possible issues other than timing? I would have thought the truck wouldn't run or run very rough all of the time if it was timing. If I pay the Ford dealership can I expect a warranty? If I was to open the engine back up should the timing tool work to sync the camshafts for each bank? I don't mind spending the money as long as I get a warranty and if I know that I am not being taken advantage of. Does it sound like the Ford dealership is taking advantage of me? Thank you.
Ford Tech from Denver here, surprised you pulled the cab to do these. Ive done so many of these in the truck i couldnt imagine pulling the cab would be much easier or faster. I'm consistently getting them done is around 4 hours.
I'm a tech at an independent shop, I did a set of chains and phasers on an ecoboost f150 and just thinking back to the intercooler piping on the turbos, I'd rather have the cab off too
I'm a Honda tech who had to replace the water pump on a 17 explorer with a 3.5l. I dropped the engine out the bottom onto a table. I didn't see another way to get the job done correctly and quickly lol. I can see on this one hes working on the pump is external, the one i delt with was a chain driven pump under the timing cover.
@@alleyesopen7776 that's the way I'd do it in a transverse application.
@@alleyesopen7776 totally unnecessary on explorers, on the other hand, newer edges make more sense to drop out the bottom
Yeah it’s definitely not faster to pull the cab but it does make everything much more accessible and overall I just feel like I can do a better job at re sealing everything with cab off.
Late to this channel but we just bought a 2021 expedition max platinum with that 3.5 in it. Great info and detail. I am older gear head and love seeing the younger mechanics really gettin into their work like this. Not sure if my 3.5 will have this issue since it’s only got 20k on it but time will tell.
Great content! Thanks for taking the time to keep us customers informed from a mechanics standpoint on these trucks.
Thank you!
@@FlyingWrenches13 So these F150 bodies somewhat "easily" disconnect from frame ?? >>> 1:53
This bad program is what got me. I commented on one of your other videos with a shudder issues. After the dealer jerked me around for 3 and a half months letting my truck sit on the lot I finally took my truck to another dealer. The maintenance manager knew if was the program with in 30 seconds of me talking to him. As of two weeks ago the program is still not out..... hopefully it wont damage the transmission. (Pinnacle Ford in nicholasville ky is an absolute joke)
Thanks for making this video!
Yeah that sucks man! Ford should have never released that program with out first testing the updated software.
What would be the concern if I did not do the repair and lived with the noise? Or is this a must do? Lastly, have there been issues after the repair with the issue coming back? Thanks for the video.
Yeah I want that question answered too!
"before going out an buying yourself a Chevrolet....." LoL priceless!
Great content, I like your approach to the subject. I drive GM but I am doing this repair for a buddy. They all have their problems, this is just a bigger than usual one for Ford. These timing chains are a big money maker for good mechs, soak that gravy up while it lasts.
It is possible to swap over to the Melling oil pump ($135 at Summit) without dropping the pan. It's a bit of a pain because of the pickup can be done without dropping the pan in about 30 minutes or less. On transverse mounted engines (Lincoln MKS, MKT, Taurus SHO) the pick-up drops right out of the way so it is a 5 to 10 minute job once you are in there.
I had a 2017 2.7 and about a month ago I started experiencing the cold start rattle.I just traded it in for a 2020 3.5L and it drives like a dream
I’ve heard of a few people with 2.7’s experiencing the rattle but I’ve never seen one myself. I guess it’s a little more rare for those engines. Maybe the 20 model will do better for ya.
@@FlyingWrenches13 yeah truck had 64k miles when it started rattling , I also had to get the oil pan replaced twice common issue for the 2.7
Yeah oil pans are junk on those! Thanks for the input.
…again customers are Beta testing Ford products. I have a 2019 supercrew with 20,000 miles, I was notified of the problem the dealership stated the PCM Reprogram had been canceled as you stated, looking forward to that repair. I also have a 10R80 transmission whine issue, under the SSM 47812 the dealership and Ford hotline said it’s not an issue won’t affect durability. We’ll see. Your video was very informative I subscribed to your channel and look forward to future post. Thank you
Thank you! There was a TSB on the 20 models for a whine noise caused by a faulty planetary. May be worth asking your dealer about. I’ve put a few in for noise issues and noise went away on all of them.
watching your has convinced me not to buy the low mile expedition I was thinking about buying. feel it was a blessing that I saw your videos. I will never look at another 3.5 ford eco. I almost went back to Ford after divorcing it in 1994. I see now that nothing has changed for the better in 30 years
Press the gas pedal down to the floor and hit the ignition switch. The engine will not start and you can build oil pressure before you start it up.
So is that bypassing the problem? I just started to get the rattle at start 2015 140k 3.5. And holding it down it doesn't rattle.
You seriously did that? Lmao 😂
It works will not start w pedal on the floor.
Mine is gas and brake simultaneously. It works
On mine I hit the driver door lock/unlock switch 3X, ignition on/off 3X, lights on/off once, honk twice, open/close the driver side door and start.
GTG for 1 week worse case scenario.
I worked for Ford for 15 years. Went to Toyota and couldn't believe the differance in quality and reliability. Happier customers and Happier Techs.
Awesome video! You are a modern day professional technician! Keep up the great work and videos!
Thank you so much! Comments like this keep me motivated to make more content. I appreciate you.
4 sets of phasers in 36000 miles on my 2019 xlt. loved the truck but boy am i glad ford bought it back from me. never again until maybe ecoboost 3.0
Why so many? Did it just keep rattling?
@@FlyingWrenches13 kept talking and the last two sets failed to the point they are the cams. All service work was done at one of the best service shops in the south. Ford never could get my truck right so they gave up I guess. My first and likely last Ford lol
Great video. I’m a tech in North West Arkansas been doing this for 9 years with Ford. Over the past couple years this is one of my favorite jobs to do. I share the same ideas with you on why these go bad and how the programs don’t work at all and replacing all the timing components under CP. But there’s one thing I gotta ask. How do you make any money on this job pulling the cab?
Pulling cab in my opinion would be faster cause I'm having the rattlle issues and Ford quoted 15 hrs for total and that's not pulling the cab
15hours that’s more that enough I would make bank charging that much 😂
Do you have your own shop?
Omg this video explains my truck issues. 4:40 is exactly what happened to my truck. They were never able to fix it and caused more problems the transmission shudder feels like you’re on the shoulder of the highway. My teeth rattle sometimes it is so bad. Glad Ford did the right thing and took it back.
Hope it helped you!
@@FlyingWrenches13 it did tremendously. I thought I was crazy and I am pretty sure so did everyone else. I can’t tell you how exact you were with the issue, I experienced everything you described even after the 2 recalls were done. There is a 3rd one but I guess they will know how to fix it once they get it back
Great video! I had a 2011 F150 with a 3.5 Ecoboost. Bought it new. At 42,000 mi the engine started making a rattle noise at startup. I was 1 month out of warranty. The dealer said my timing chain was going. I paid $1800 to have it fixed. Ford absorbed some of the cost. I bought a 2018 F150 new with same (updated) engine and now at 32,000 mi am having the rattle noise at startup. I got a recall notice this week and will be taking it in. I saw a video that if you hold down the break & gas pedals while cranking the engine it will get oil pressure to the engine before starting. I tried it and it worked. No noise. Please let me know what you think. I will still be taking it in for the recall but am getting discussed with Ford's engine problems especially on young well maintained engines. I've been a Ford guy for many years but am losing faith.
Yeah the gas pedal method does work for preventing the noise. Go have the recall performed and then if it still rattles, you can have your phasers replaced under warranty.
@@FlyingWrenches13 Thanks for the quick reply. I will continue the pre cranking startups
I am hoping that the recall works without a engine teardown.
I have a 2018 with 41 K and it has started knocking. Taking it to the shop this week due to your video. Thanks.
Wish the CSRs at service departments were this knowledgeable...and useful. lol
Thanks lol
Wifes toyota also has vct rattle on start either cold or hot. Noticed it decreases a bit with higher viscosity oil or additive. Changing oil to next vidcosity grade up is much easier and cheaper than changing oil pumps. And likely reduces valve gear wear. The light oil specified for most engines these days was thought up by govt clerks working on CAFE numbers, not lubrication engineers.
Great video. I have a 2011 3.5 Ecoboost with 185K miles. Never had any of these issues. I use Mobile One full Syn oil. I just had my water pump replaced.
Thank you! Water pumps are pretty common for going out 150k+.
@@FlyingWrenches13 - are they behind a cover or in front easy to remove?
@@Dirtyharry70585 they are in the front but not real easy to replace. Kinda a tight spot to get in there to work.
im a 34 year tech! you're very well spoken for your young age dude.
Thank you!
Hi, thanks for the info. Would you be willing to post a parts list for this repair including chains,tensioners and gaskets needed for this job? Thank you!
Sure! Send me your email and I’ll send you the saved quote I have. Also I’ll need to know what year model as they vary some.
@@FlyingWrenches13 Hi I sent you email with the info, thanks very much!
@@FlyingWrenches13 can you please send me the parts quote for a 2018 3.5 thank you
@@chito69691 shoot me an email. Mdunsford90@gmail.com
@@FlyingWrenches13 how much do you charge to do this repair
Great video. Was in process of buying one thankfully i always run a scan pulled the history had cam phaser code and tranny code. Saved me thousands. In my opinion the auto start not a good idea. If was going to do should of had electric prime pump. And the fact you cant permanently shut it off without a programmer. A gm 5.3 will live 9 lives before any ecoboost. Dad was service advisor for ford but i just cant back them.
So back in the day when I worked on crappy Maseratis we had this same issue and new phasers wouldn't fix it. We had to send the front cam bearing block off that controls the oil flow into the phaser and have a check ball put in to stop the oil from bleeding off when the vehicle sat overnight or longer then about 6hrs. That was an instant fix. Now we always replaced the phasers when inside bc it's unknown if any damage occurred from it slapping around but the check ball was the true fix. I'm happy with my old 2v bump pulling a cab off to service the engine that's just poor engineering to me but I've always worked on German and exotics so maybe the domestics do it differently now.
That’s the very first thing I thought of. These “experts” haven’t a clue
@jayman is this something that someone could even do to their Ecoboost? I would t know where to take it to for this. Maybe a Maserati dealer? Lol
@@infotechsailor maybe they could fit an electric oil pump to prime the engine before it is started. Same as they do with priming the fuel system before a start.
@@infotechsailor I haven't been inside one of these engines to see how the oil flows to the adjusters so it might not even be an option to do for this engine. Every engine is different so what worked for one might not work for another unfortunately.
2019 with about 25k miles gets the startup rattle of the truck sits for a few days.
Retired so don’t drive much.
Gas pedal trick works every time to build oil pressure. No engine knock on start.
Change oil every 3500, slight tick at operating temp near end of oil change intervals
Have sent 3 samples to blackstone and have all come back perfect.
No excessive tin, copper or iron.
So apparently nothing is wearing to be deposited in the oil
That’s crazy that no metal deposits were found. Gas pedal to WOT works pretty much every time! Thanks for the info!
@@FlyingWrenches13 I really think there is metal to metal contact in the phaser area but It doesn’t seem to have shear or shaving.
my filters look good too at changes.
thanks for the info.
got a question, what will happen if I leave it without replacement? are we taking about complete engine failure?
It actually won’t cause any other issues. It will just keep on rattling.
It won’t cause additional problems.it’s just a nuisance.
In February 2023, I took my 2018 Ford Raptor to the local Ford dealer in central California, and they quoted me $4,250 to replace the VCT units (parts and labor). I bought it used and from the very beginning it would make a rattling noise from cold starts. The Ford dealer also quoted me $1,070 to replace the water/coolant pump (parts and labor). I agree with him, its best to invest in your money (out of warranty parts) on your daily driver truck and not spend on other extra performance items.
I still can't figure out why you remove the cab to do this job. Up here in New England, we don't. Interesting...
Everyone is talking about the 3.5. Just had Ford replace phasers on a 2021 2.7 with 1,400 miles on it. Ended up not having a truck for 3 weeks. Two weeks for an appointment with the dealer then one week at the dealer. Ford Customerservice is supposedly giving an extra 2 years on my warranty and the phaser replacement was covered under warranty. Good luck if you don't have a warranty!!
Why were they replaced? Was it rattling? I’ve never seen a 2.7 rattle.
Yes, cold start rattle. Sounded like a diesel truck for a few seconds on a cold start at about 1,400 miles.
That’s crazy with that low of a mileage. Hopefully it’s not a issue with the 2.7’s now.
Another mechanic had the same theory about the phasers- oil pressure issue. He mentioned that Ford should get the PCM to increase the oil circulation to the phasers & timing chain at start up. I don't know what that means, but what you said, seems logical to me. (non-pro mechanic) I would do this to my 2014 F-150 3.5 ecoboost. I got 198,000 miles on mine and running really good, but waiting for the noise to get louder as time goes bye. I have no history on my truck, only what the VIN # report has. But I would love to know what services were done on my truck, just to see what else did they fix on it that I don't need to do to it. My truck sound good for the year and mileage, so I'm hoping that he took care of all the recalls and problems. It's too bad you live so far, I would love for YOU to do the job, since you seem to know what you're doing. (Take pride in your work)
Thanks! Their are plenty of dealers out there with techs that could do just as good of a job as me. Just gotta find them.
Were you located @FlyingWrenches13
I waited the whole video to find out how to fix anything with the VCT rattle. I just got the same talk from my service writer and he didn’t fix it either. I think you have a future, son, as a service writer.
Very educational video, Mason!
Thank you!
I have a 17 transit 250 with the 3.5 eco with close to 70,000 so far no issues thankfully . A good friend of mine has a 11 f-150 eco with over 300,000 miles and has never been in to, other then oil changes
Yeah Ive seen a few 3.5’s with 350k plus. Just gotta take care of them.
You just added a new subscriber! I just bought a ‘19 3.5 with 99k miles and did not notice the cold (and warm) start rattle until after I brought it home. The dealer included a 3k mile power train warranty. Do you think I should attempt to have them replace the phasers even if there is no code thrown? The rattle is LOUD. Otherwise I’m in love with the truck.
Thank you, welcome to the channel. And Yes yes yes. I would get as much done on there dime as possible.
@@FlyingWrenches13 thanks, appointment is scheduled.
Same boat 2014 Ford
F-150 Eco boost 3.5 runs amazing. Only small rattle on cold start. Just tried the trick of building oil pressure by holding down accelerator and it worked perfect
Came here because my 2018 F150 xlt started rattling at start up.. thanks for the info
Is it possible to program the ecu to extend cranking time (before firing) to allow more time to build oil pressure? I would think it would only need an extra second or two to get the oil moving enough to take up any bleed-off from those phasers or tensioner?
I’m sure it is possible to do that but it wouldn’t be the best way to fix it. Longer crank time would lead to starter failure eventually. I think what they are doing with this program is having the pcm demand a different position from the phasers at startup that won’t make it rattle. I’m not sure what position would make it not rattle. Unfortunately there isn’t any publications telling us the differences between the stock tune and the updated pcm file they are getting us to put in them under the 21b10 recall.
Hold the pedal to the floor. Engine will not start till you release it.
@@jimsherman2477 I used to fuck with my buddy doing that
@@FlyingWrenches13 I'm on my third starter in a year anyways. The autoshutoff really wears my starter out.
Thanks for posting this video! I have a few questions. Are the VCT'S capable of changing the timing enough to cause the pistons to contact the valves? Also would the VCT leaks eventually become bad enough to affect timing while the engine is running?
Thank you! The only way for a valve to contact a piston is if the timing is off. Phaser can swing full retard or advance without and valve contact. To the second question, I’ve never seen that happen. Most of the time it’s only on cold start.
Awesome thanks for the info! Greatly appreciated. And great video.
I had F150 with the 3rd gen Coyote 5.0. Over retardation and advancement from sludge buildup. Warranty only replaced the solenoid. That sludge is eventually going to cause real damage including bent parts.
So is the only issue a rattle at startup in the phaser and nothing actually getting damaged in the engine? In other words what if I just live with this and not fix it?
@@chriscagle3155 I believe so, I drove mine for two years with the rattle, and it started to get worse towards the end before I sold the truck.
thanks, from a 2017 F-150 3.5 EcoBoost owner...
can you explain the "mega cap" and how it has to do with the phaser?
Honestly to really explain it I need to do some more research into how the oil actually flows through the head. I may do a video on it here soon.
Great video. I'm about to buy a 2018 F150 3.5L ecoboost with 107k miles. It's a beautiful truck, but hope to not have to go through this anytime soon.
I have a 2012 3.5 that rattles for about a second on cold start up. I thought it might be the timing chain is stretched and it takes a second for the tensioners to tighten it up. If I get a new timing chain and tensioners should I mess with the VCT Phasers at all?
Yeah I would highly recommend replacing those phasers at the same time.
Thanks!
Great Video... I appreciate your knowledge. This is the second time I am taking my 2018 EB to the dealer for the rattle issue. The first time was at 48K miles at which time they changed timing chain and tensors. I have it in again today for same rattle at 72000. They are replacing the phasers at 60% coverage from FORD. I am not a car tech guy so the question I have is that if this happens again do I really need to take it back to FORD. Can I continue to drive the truck without issue with the cold start rattle? Will I do damage to the engine or the transmission with the continued rattle? Thank in advance!!
¡Gracias!
Great video! Question: had the VCT Phasers swapped recently (
Yeah it shouldn’t be rattling at all. I would go see someone else.
Use Amsoil
It may be the waste gates rattling. If the rattle lasts for more than a couple of seconds it is not the phasers.
@@johnlexus1 amsoil fixes mechanical problems?
You seem to be and awesome mechanic and that's a breath of fresh air well done young man . Ford seems to have a lot of problems with quality
Great video! I've been dealing with this issue on my 2018 for about a year now. It's getting worse/more frequent. Your theory sounds good! However, my truck does it when I first start it and ALSO when it's at normal operating temperature. I can be going out the interstate, steady speed, and it'll do it. It does it going up hills. It does it when I accelerate gradually coming out of a curve. I have noticed it does it more often when it's cold outside. Cold meaning around 30 degrees or colder. Do you think your theory might apply in my situation? Thanks!
I have the same problem as you. Have you figured anything out?
My 2014 f-150 with the 3.5 Eco started the rattle at about 45k miles. I now have 55k. Most of the time it rattles on start up to various degree after the truck has not been started for more than 12 hrs. Occasionally it can sit for several days and no rattle on start up, some times a slight rattle after sitting at work for 8-1/2 hrs. I saw another vid that stated the rattle is the chain slapping against the inside of the timing cover and it will eventually wear holes in the cover. I don't drive my truck every day and don't want to tear into it at this time with only 55k miles. I came up with a work around that is a slight hassle but it works for me because I mostly only use the truck two or three times a week.
Before cold start I remove the #78 15 amp fuse to the ignition ecm from the fuse station under the hood. I then crank the engine normally with the key for about 10 seconds until I see pressure on the oil gauge in the dash. I then return the #78 fuse and start the engine normally and always without a rattle. I bit of hassle, but it works and it also pre-lubes the engine to full oil pressure before startup.
I run Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30 with Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer and change oil every 4-5k miles. Next oil change I will run Motorcraft 5w30 to see if the seals in the phasers leak down less with semi-synthetic oil. Synthetic oil molecules are many times smaller that mineral base oil molecules and I am hoping the semi-synth Motorcraft oil fixes this.
Did you know you can do the same thing by holding the accelerator pedal at WOT? It will kill the fuel injectors and allow you to crank the engine without starting. I’ve never tried to see if the rattle has went away by doing this before starting though. Let us know if the synthetic blend makes any difference!
@@FlyingWrenches13 Thank you for the wide open throttle tip. I did that this morning until the oil pressure needle hit normal pressure (about 10 seconds of starter crank), then started the engine normally with no rattle. Wish I knew of some kind of inline pre-lube pump for the 3.5 Eco.
Glad to hear! Yeah I have never hear of anything like that for a 3.5.
@@FlyingWrenches13 Works on my 17 EB and no rattle because it gives oil a chance to pump up there before startup.
Great video! You’re a very impressive young man.
Thank you!
Warrantied my F150 a little after 36,000. I have since taught my self to brake gas start and cycle the engine to get the cam phasers some oil before ignition.
Sounds a lot like the old 5.4l issues. Most of that was fixed with updated phasers and a high volume oil pump.
Yeah that’s pretty much what’s fixing these. Oil pumps do better on these than the 5.4’s did.
Good job Ford! Another winner! Thanks a lot. I guess just get the 5.0 and avoid ecoTrash
Unreal that this company still hasnt figured out the phasers going back to 5.4. Junk.
Lol
I know it’s very bizarre, I did phasers and timing on 2018 navigator, 2018 raptor, working on a 19 f150, all 3 are my vehicles and all went to the dealer within a month of ownership.
chevy has em too dumbass idiot!
Buy a Chevy
@@c.torino2479 Chevy will have lifter failure before first oil change 🤣 lawsuit about it currently
The information in this video is spot on
Salute from GM land.
I just completed this whole procedure about 2 months ago.
$ 3600.00.
Water pump, oil pump and all things timing belt.
4 days later fuel pump.
Expensive month.
Runs real good now, but after experiencing Ford’s built in obsolescence and technic for making everything expensive to repair, it’ll be the last Ford I own.
Can’t blame you!
"I'm a senior master technician." Dude look like he's 17 years old! 😄✌️
Not far off. Turned 24 last month.
Don't be salty he did something with his life while he was young. I'm the same. 25 and will be a Senior Ford Master Tech in 6 months.
Happy Birthday and thanks for sharing
Good video and good conversation here in the comments. Ford should be doing a better job in regards to extending the warranty for the VCT phasers. They are aware of the problem and don’t have a proper fix yet, and they are being stingy with the extended warranty coverage. Not a good way to stand by your product.
2017+ 3.5 ecoboost: leaky oil pans, rattling timing chains, useless 10r80 transmission…. I see why people are going to the outdated 5.7 I force from Toyota. A $40k+ truck shouldn’t need thousands of $$ in repair work before 100k miles
127k on mine ....none of those problems
5.7 tundra was best truck I ever owned. 6 years and never had an issue with it.
Good info. My BRAND NEW 2022 BRONCO 2.3 liter manual has this rattle, so obviously Ford has not figured out how to fix this issue. I've read content where other Bronco owners are having the same rattle during startup. Your theory seems right about the oil pressure as I've noticed that the rattling during colder weather takes longer to go away. At least now I can seem like I know what I'm talking about with the service department instead of saying... "it sounds like Jacob Marley from the movie Scrooge, lightly rattling his chains". Thank you!
Yall just pulling cabs on everything. Makes me think your a deisel guy. Lol
I was before I came to this newest dealer. I still work on them here just not as much as I use to.
That's exactly what I was thinking
So disappointing how ford has handled this issue. For the record my f150 is the best truck I've ever driven... except cracked ds valve cover, oil pan leaking constantly, turbo coolant line layout, cam phasers, timing chain slack, intake leaks, etc... for these reasons I'll probably by an na gmc. I know they have their issues too but they are easier to work on for the diy guy and no BS as fords been doing for over a decade. Like I said my 18 platinum is great other than the most important issues, reliability. Good stuff man thanks for keeping it real.
Wait, wait, FORD “ Tested “ this engine when it first came out through the BAJA desert 🌵 and everything then tore it down and everything was fine???
Ford been making engines over 100 years and Honda and Toyota STILL make a better engine? HOW? WHY?
WHEN is Ford going to get their shit together and make a GAS 400,000 mile engine w/o a MAJOR repair? WHEN?
And why people STILL buy and support this CRAP? And pay good money for it
The days of reliable engines are behind us unfortunately. It’s all about power and fuel economy now.
I see transits with 600k ,400k,all the time. There not tuned as hot but last alot longer
Honda sure they are reliable. Get real tired of hearing how reliable Toyota’s are As a mechanic I know Toyota’s to be pretty junky. Which is bad when u also have no power to go with it
Mines loud enough that people ask me if it has a diesel in it. I’ve learned to live with it for now. I’m at 180k in the 2018 3.5, so far:
-cam sensors went out at 170k
-throttle body at 175k
-spark plugs and wire 90k and 175k
Do you think the repairs are worth the vehicle? I have one at 100k
@@negligennt the truck is a beast I’m currently at 193k. Any truck is gonna cost money to run past 200k. I’m not a fan of the 10speed but the motor is strong and worth it.
I Have a shop in the DC Area your spot on very good info for the consumer 4000 is average with everything that should be replaced. I impressed with your knowledge good job 👍 keep up the good work
Thank you!
As I am not a mechanic, I watched another video where the Ford tech showed the little hardened PLASTIC peace locking up and or breaking in the phaser causing the issue.
The gentleman recording the video looked at the tech and said so if this part wasn’t plastic would we have the issue? The tech just looked at him for a few seconds with a smile and continued working. So yes, a $.15 plastic piece turned to some sort of metal would solve the entire issue according to this guy.
Your an awesome technician
Looks just like a typical day in my world, between doing these and short blocking '17 to '19 Escape 1.5s .......only difference being, I don't have a bunch of guys helping me when I'm into one of these. I'm glad it looks like I'm not the only one who lifts cabs to do this job. Lifting the body on the Navigators sure is a little bit more work than the cab on the F-150s. These GEN II version 3.5s have had this problem from new though. I've heard that same rattle at start up, even on brand new units coming in for PDI.
1.5 engine, 3.5 phasers, repeat.
Hello sir you are making video on a 2017 Ford F-150 EcoBoost that smokes blue smoke when on cold start. A lot of people saying that replacing the turbo the left turbo would take care of it but some saying that they have to replace only the oil line.. but you're the expert.
Oil line only. There is a TSB out for that issue.
i saw somewhere on a forum that you can build up oil pressure by pressing the gas and turning on the ignition to crank the engine and push the oil in the engine before it starts up do y’all think this could work i have an old ford crown victoria
It worked for my truck for a month now it does it even with that
Yea. I called them about a close to warranty cracked piston on a mustang GT (I was sitting AT IDLE at a stoplight at the time). "Unfortunately Mr xxx, we have no 'program' for you. Thank you for being a Ford customer." 108 DAYS LATER, and $10.5K, and I got it back. 6 weeks later, it began to stall while in motion (50 mph or so) if returning to idle. It has been at one dealership service dept or the other ever since ( over 6 months). Phasers on driver's side have begun to throw codes. Exhaust position sensor and control solenoid replaced. Now intake cam on same side going nuts. Im losing my mind.
I have a 2018 f150 platinum , I’ve had the cam phasers replaced twice. They first set lasted about 40k miles before rattling again. The second only lasted 25k and not only does the engine sound like it’s coming apart, I now have 6 DTC,s low oil pressure, under boost condition, camshaft sensor intermittent etc.etc.etc. I’m ready to burn this one to the ground, easier to try to fix all these issues and all this started after dealer changed out phasers the second time. 25 k miles in and now all this. Here are codes. P061A, P0524, P0365, P0369, P0299, P0390, I’ve replaced all camshaft sensors and still codes come back. Oil changed by dealer every interval. Trying to get repaired, but now like an act of congress. Hope this helps some folks. I’ve been a Ford man my whole life but this may be my last.
I hope that Goes well honor the repair on my truck. I just bought it and the previous owner never brought it in for the PCM reprogram. I saw a video from when this all first started that the truck had to be taken in by like August of 2021 to be eligible for the CSP.
2020 explorer st dealer changed phasers for rattle described in your video ,at 4000 miles motor blew shortly there after and was warranties with long block
I have a 2018 3.5 exobooat in my f150. Did not have the diesel sound rattle but heard from friend that did on his 2017. They replaced it under warranty at 12k miles. During the start of covid. Took a little time to get the parts, but it's good to go now.