@@bloody4558 you kiddin? If looks could kill, Goku and co would be dead. Bulma is also the one person whom they don’t dodge when she swings at them. 10 years of training for her, she’d be at Yamcha-Krillin’s current level in no time flat!
@ she's been watching Goku, Yamcha, and Vegeta train for years, and has watched all those super fast and powerful fights in her youth with no issue. Plus, she's the smartest woman on the planet. I'm sure she can pick up the basics.
It's obvious that the end of Z was made assuming there was nothing else to talk about in the story. Super and Daima are unfortunately subjected to the lack of future proofing.
@firionkaiser8291 true though at the time one could argue that it took place in Toei's version of Dragonball which was basically all the filler they made, the movies in the 90s and GT. It was separate from the Manga/Canon Dragonball.
Bro what do u mean after z they had something GT which people shit on cuz of the dubbing but is still more lore accurate to og and z series than supers recons.
@apexpredator9163 no GT is all Toei's doing and only fits into the 80s and 90s anime verse that they created while the Manga was on-going. It's actually a narrative mess when you realize that Toei Dragonball treats The Dead Zone as Canon despite it contradicted by episode one of Z.
@Seeyou45 Gt was more lore accurate to the whole franchises cannon than supers is on a lore and biological saiyan lore level Toriyama stopped with tails so his ocd would stop bugging him, making him always think how do they put clothing with tails. True fact Then he lies in interviews and panels, saying it's because he forgot saiyans had them or they dont need them after they hit a certain level of power, which is bulshit. Just a fake excuse to justify getting rid of tails. This contridicts the fact that a saiyans no matter what are ne er at full power or can reach full power without their tails because is thw source of their power. Golu in the world tournament the second his tailed grow back said "i always feel so much stronger when i have my tail". Which no shit goku ur a saiyan ans your tail is the source of all ur true power So tell me beside toriyama making super how the hell is super or daima fucking more lore accurate than GT is and a better ending to z
Honestly when Dragon Ball Super ends, it should be a revised version of the ending of Z to patch all the holes as it’s clear that the end of Z was made with assumptions that there would be nothing else in the story.
Those last episodes should have never been made. I was under the impression that DBZ ended the moment majiin buu was defeated for years until I found out about these episodes many years later as an adult. These episodes are misleading as they give the impression there will be a brand new story to come and give dragon ball a God AWFUL ending! I absolutely HATEEE the last episode.
One more retcon. Bulma’s age/aging. Throughout Super, she constantly looks young and keeps making herself look younger. I doubt she aged 30-40ish years in 3. I also doubt she would do anything to try to look older all of a sudden. She looks way too young by the end of Super (or wherever we are in Super currently) for it too make any sense that she looks as old as she does at the end of Z.
They probably couldn’t beat Black Frieza so someone made a wish to make all wishes on the Earth dragon balls for the past 5 or so years moot and they use the the Namakein dragon balls to revive Piccolo and unlock his orange form again there you go?
For some dumb reason: akira made bulma look wayy too old in the buu saga with that Karen haircut and lame Old lady dress. She wasn't even old, maybe early late 30s at best but looks way older with that lame haircut.
Yes, after defeating Black Frieza they are going to find out that the strongest in the universe the Oracle Fish talked about was Uub all along because he has majin buu's potential but he needs to train to unleash it and properly develop it to the point where he can become the strongest so Goku is going to want to meet and train him which is what happens at the end of dbz.
Uub doesn't just have Kid Buu's potential, he also has the Grand Supreme Kai's God Ki as well and the Grand Supreme Kai is the most powerful Supreme Kai in Universe 7.
Bulma says "We would've never seen you if we didn't come to you!!" and "Five years!! And even then, you weren't around much because of your training!" Bulma says "we", meaning her and Vegeta. Meaning neither Bulma, nor Vegeta, have seen Goku in 5 years. And even when they did, they barely saw him because he was too busy training. Meaning he wasn't training with Vegeta at this time. It also means there were no life-threatening events taking place where they needed Goku to save the day. They didn't go looking for Goku to help beat up the bad guys, they went to Goku to socialise, and he was too busy training (likely with his family; Goten and Pan). This means there was 10 years of peacetime. Goku and Vegeta never trained nor fought together. And Goku spent a lot of time training with his own family, fostering a good relationship with Pan. Bulma jokes about wishing to look younger, after seeing Goku hasn't aged one bit while she has. Vegeta didn't know about Uub either. Super doesn't fit into any of this. In Super; Goku barely even remembers who Pan is. She was training with Piccolo, not Goku. Goten spent a lot of time with Trunks to the point they practically lived together, rather than quality time with his Dad. Goku and Vegeta are constantly training and battling foes together, and spend more time with each other than their wives. Bulma has already been making wishes to look younger, and even looks younger than she did in the Buu saga. Vegeta is well aware of Uub.
Actually he didn't forget pan it's just a joke that was lost in translation (because pan means bread in Japanese, Goku was confused on why they were suddenly going to go get bread)
@@bepbobbap Yeah, it was a bad joke, more-so since pretty much all characters are named after food. Yet the one time Goku gets confused is with Pan. Modern Dragon Ball just really wants Goku to be a bad parent/grandparent/husband. It's weird. He was never that bad in the original manga, or even the Z anime adaptation.
Either Toyotaro is gonna rewrite end of Z completely, or keep it 98% the same in respect to Toriyama. Either way it's going to be exciting to see what he'll do after it
Toriyama might be gone but doesn't mean he didn't have a draft for explaining the end of Z. They could easily go the route of multiverse or sacrificing their God hood like seven deadly sins. Or just add more dialogue to it. GT still happened and that was after the end of Z cannon or not.
The ending was bad then and is even worse now. One of the biggest complaints made back in the day, "Why would Goku shoulder the responsibility of passing the torch to this one kid when his two sons and his granddaughter are literally right there?" Now multiply that problem by a thousand because now there are even more passing of the torch canidates that are just straight up better than Uub.
I agree, as nostalgic as it feels it doesn't really seem like a good ending. Gohan was always gonna be the one to pass the torch. It even multiplied the moment we found out Trunks and Goten were the youngest super saiyans ever and that Trunks was the one to have the torch passed to by Future gohan in his other timeline. Now with Pan and even Bulla also coming into the picture it doesn't really make sense for UUB to be the main focus. Also now they made Broly a good guy which changes things. He should definitely take him in and add him to the Z family but some of the things Toriama wrote doesn't really make sense and I feel like were more for gags. (not seeing bulma and vegeta for 5 years, instantly leaving Chichi and his entire family/still young son and grandaughter to train some random kid indefinitely even though he has instant transmission and can scale the earth in 5 seconds, and him and vegeta basically retiring early even though we know saiyans are at their peak even when they are over 100 years old and Goku and Vegeta are still super young in saiyan years.
@@kokroughtoss1257 Because Gohan doesn't want to be a fighter, Goten treats training like a casual hobby, and the family probably wouldn't let Goku throw Pan into that kind of life. But Uub is already strong, driven, free to take on the burden, and is someone Goku personally requested when he killed Kid Buu. He qualifies.
@@SkiddyOcean117 you have never watched dragon Ball in your life Gohan Is A Scholar not a fighter Goten barely even trains at all trunks has to run capsule corporations and Pan Barely even trains Uub Has immense Potential as well also saiyans stay young until Like 80 years old and then become really old stated by toriyama himself they Don’t however Do Not age to like 100 plus years old that’s Viltramites also Broly is Way Older than Son Goku Himself he stated to be the Next Defender Of Earth If Son Goku ever perishes also The Last Thing He doesn’t leave his Family He Specifically Even Say’s I’ll Come Visit You From Time To Time To Pan Herself Go Watch Dragon Ball
How do you figure that? I don't understand why dragon ball fans of all things keep going back to this point. Frieza barely trains and you see how much power he attained. Uub is the reincarnate of kid buu, kid buu is much stronger than frieza in their base state and has much more potential. If he trained the way frieza did he ought to be stronger than everyone in the universe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, so as for now the canon continuity would be > DB (series) > DB Z (Series) > DB Z: The Return of Son Goku and Friend - Movie > DB: Daima (Series) > DB: Battle of God - Movie > DB Super (Resurrection F included in the series/manga) > DBS: Brolly - Movie > DBS: Superhero - Movie > DB Super: (Ultra Instinct vs Gohan Beast) - Manga > DB Super ?? - for any future plan > DB Z (the end of Z)
Goku doesn't transform against uub, hell no one does. Functionally all that happens in that end of Z tournament is a small tournament scale. End of Z should make sense. Uub has kid Buu's potential for growth and learning capacity(highest in the series in my opinion at least when it comes to learning techniques) and it only gets better for Uub in super since he's a walking god ki battery
Thanks to daima, Uub is the best of all 3 worlds: Demons, Gods, & mortals. Kid buu was created in the demon realm, "stole" the godly essence from the daikaioshin, & was reincarnated into a human. Uub is a Demon Demigod
They said it had been a quiet peaceful 10 years, in reality more happened in that 10 years than all of Z, also Bulma was complaining about never seeing Goku and that's obviously BS at this point.
It doesn't, as the video showed the character don't need to be constantly talking about what happened in the past 10 years and they would only need to change a couple of lines of dialogue lol
The End of Z is canon, Super's canonicity on the other hand is debatable since it was written mostly by Toyotaro, Toriyama's participation in super is minimal.
ironically and most people missed it, but end of z episode is actually filler, like the episode where they goku gets a driver license. Super is canonically more canon since it based off Toriyama work on Battle of Gods continuity and his work on it
@@macsenpai7006 i have a whole forum discussion about it, it strays far off from manga z ending which only shows Uub and the tournament games, and no more than that. The rest are just fillers to fill a tv program slot of 20 minutes.
Another thing that doesn't make sense is Bulma coming up with the idea to use the dragon balls to not age. We've seen her do it in Super so she's already thought of that long before.
another continuity issue is that at the end of Z, vegeta is portrayed as just then being told by goku who uub is, how strong he is, etc. but then goku already told him in super (episode 30, to be exact) so now it makes no sense for him to be surprised
For me it's INSANE that fans can't even realize that all theae stories are attempts to juice the franchise more and more (sorry Toriyama). That's why all Super and Daima feel like a fanfic or merely fan service: because that's what it is. With all due respect, even Tori had no respect (nor motivation) to keep an eye or truly expand this (even forgetting things like SS3), and hence he put a person that had his manga ideas (foo you, Granolah), while being a great artist when it came ro drawing. Money, money, money, and here we are discussing story telling.
The original will always be canon just as GT is the true continuation no matter if it wasn't Toriyamas creation he contributed and was apart of making it happen. Supers a fun alternate timeline though
I feel db super will end with the end of z. As the events of the battle of gods movie appeared in the manga and anime with slight differences, db super will remake that end of z that all of us remember, changing the plot inaccuracies and adding more references to what the z warriors experienced in super. It might end up being more than one chapter, maybe a whole 7-chapter arc, for example. I hope it ends this way.
As I always say when people bring out "EoZ is not canon anymore", I always say the only thing they need to correct are how long Goku and Bulma didn't interacted, and maybe Piccolo's reason to not participate in the tournament (He said he he couldn't get even close to the Saiyan's power level, but now he has orange Piccolo).
I don't really think the uub explanation works. End of Z goku is essentially desperate for a good fight and challenge, but that would mean he's seemingly launched himself ahead of characters like vegeta, brolly, gowan, beerus and even whis
I do agree tho with a bunch of these which is that they’d honestly have no reason to talk about Super’s events or a reason to transform either so I’d say technically it does still fit but they would need to edit that Bulma part for sure otherwise it still works
I'd be cool with the end of Super, in the Black Frieza fight, things get so dire that someone has to use the Dragon Balls to wish away the years when they met the gods and Frieza gets wished back , but the angels will remember what happened and never encounter Goku and Vegeta, and that's the years that bleed into the others.
The intense aging up Bulma had in less then a year. SuperHero takes place 1 year before EOZ, yet somehow she actually LOOKS 10 years older regardless of the fact shes been wishing to look younger the entire time. I love EOZ Chi-Chi's hair, just a little odd she changes it so much in less then a year but thats fine Pan is 4 in EOZ, and according to the Daizenshuu Bra(Bulla) is older by like a year. Yet somehow Pan was born before Bra in DBS
It’s heavily implied that the boys have gotten soft and stopped training because of the times of peace. This implies that it was peaceful since Goku defeated kid buu. Bulma has also aged, but in super she wishes to look younger so they will have to explain this along with not seeing Goku in 5 years, also she said she only saw him a couple times before then. Another retcon in the Super anime is, Vegeta already knows about Uub in Super anime. In DBZ anime and Manga, he knew nothing about Uub at all. This will also need to be fixed.
Eh the five year line can be debatable because in the same panels Bulma implies they briefly see Goku before he goes to run off and train which just confirms he hardly stays around long enough. For the most part he really does train a lot especially in the DBS manga.
They will need to make a new End of Z now to connect it properly to Super. The old End of Z connects more to GT due to the absence of power-ups and characters from Super.
They literally showed Dende telling Goku that Buu was resurrected and Goku just said "that's cool" and then fucking left.... He barely cared about a Buu level fighter at all already. So no, the end of Z makes no sense anymore.
@@bepbobbap It's very well established in Dragon Ball that many separate timelines exist I don't know why you'd even try and argue against this as it's very clearly true
It's been my opinion that the "End of Z" era should've never been taken that seriously since Akira Toriyama was said to have only done that whole 10-year time skip to help him finally end the manga cuz he was exhausted after writing it 10 years straight. So if it really does end up getting retconned at all through DBS, I could care less. Especially since the Cell Saga was the better ending for the series anyway, not that I haven't enjoyed the newer adventures with Goku and company for the most part.
It could be explained that maybe Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and Broly go into a hyperbolic time chamber esque thing to train up for Frieza for a few years so to him, it was 5 years. Or maybe we can chalk it up to him speaking in hyperbole. Either way, I’m really hoping the Super story explains everything and goes beyond the end of Z.
3:12 I KNOW THE EXPLANATION. Bulma simply has lost track since the last time she saw goku. Goku keeps his youth and by the end of Z is more “wise” or and even though bulmba may look she isn’t. Bulma made a mistake. #retcontheretcon
If it were me, I would have made End Of Z, the end of everything. After GT, then end everything. Want Super? Ok make it happen after GT. Just focus on Uub, Vegeta, Gohan.
I have a theory Boma did not care because it does not matter. I mean what was true to the date of knowing that bone was been around these two in especially Goku for decades. I’m pretty sure should’ve gotten used to Goku’s stupidity.
Goku didn’t even know how old he was at one point in the series. He never went to school afterwards. So we can just say that Goku rounded up because he doesn’t know numbers.
a**p*ull its not that hard after seing a person for atleast like a year "uhh its actually .... years" its annoying to correct in often in a span of like 5 minutes....
Correction, did Super fail to logically bridge the gap toward the epilogue. The answer is, probably. Primary issue is that Bulma seems to think she hasn’t seen Goku in a long time, but that ain’t true in super.
If we are being honest Daima and Super are going to have a difficult time connecting to each other since Kibitokai is in BoG but has defused before Daima starts. They are all canon, but maybe Toriyama was planning a multiverse of sorts before he passed
I’ve always said to my subconscious when battle of gods released and then once I was put on to do super that dragonball gt would always take place after super because in reality super took place literally right after the final bout with kid Buy so it would make so much sense of why he would be expecting uub
Dragon Ball has been known to be having retcons, and that still didn't ruin the continuity, plus this is just one error, so it really shouldn't be a big deal.
Dude no matter how you slice it, Toriyama/ Toyotaro's intention is to connect Super to End of Z, even if it have some continuity error (which isn't that bad and just single minor one) @@RianeouRiandosSantosFerreira
@RagingBlazeBloodBaka Their intention never ever existed to make any connection, also it's not only one minor mistake, there are many, that turn it impossible to be anything alike to what it was before.
@@RianeouRiandosSantosFerreira Super was literally written by Toriyama to take place before End of Z. The movies that started Super are classified as Dragon Ball Z, and not Super, too. If he wanted it take place after End of Z, he would have written it that way. And if it were supposed to entirely retcon End of Z, why have they established Uub, who is an End of Z-exclusive character? You're literally being obtuse on purpose. You know, full well, that End of Z will follow Super, or be written to take place sometime during Super. You're just so salty that Super is canon, and written by Toriyama, that you just can't accept it. Face facts, lil' bro, GT isn't canon and Super is.
I’m sorry but this is an L take 😂 mf since when does Goku know math? While Goku IS smart, buuut he’s not so intelligent. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t even know how to count! 😭
Too goku it could seem like 5 years if he went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber at any period of time between 781 and 784. Could still work if need be.
Obviously end of z has been retconned lol. Its been nearly a decade since super came out and there has been alot of new things added to the series. Not to mention daima has introduced several dozen retcons of its own, to the point people have just sort of "headcanon'ed" that its its own split in the timeline, completely different from even super.
@@busymike what is you talking about what defines peace to you like damn did you even watch super also Bulma doesn’t age in super but at End Of Z She does another retcon
I just don’t have the energy anymore to reply to all of this stupidity. None of these arcs had an impact on the larger world the way the buu saga did you idiots. Do I have to break down every arc? I’m not doing that. Why don’t you imbeciles actually watch the show.
Goku and Vegeta entered that time chamber in U6 saga and TOP saga even then Bulma couldve made a mistake she is human after all cuz she keeps using the dragon balls to deage which makes her track of her age at times maybe intercept her statements. it happens. shes a human
2:22 when, in your real life (let’s pretend y’all have freinds for a bit) has anyone told you “mAn tHe lAsT 10 yEaRs wHeRe cRaZy” ?? Oh people don’t do that? Okay…
I actually think the end of Z was made assuming there was a possibility for a continuation later but no likely guarantee. And thus why there was room for super to be born when that unlikely chance actually became the reality End of Z goku still makes tons of sense and he can just be ultra instinct trained up by the angels whom he is trying to pass down to uub Now the longer super goes without getting past the time skip end of Z and going into the GT and AF time frame of things with truly new material and transformations etc… the higher the chance for contradiction inconsistency and destruction of end of Z sense will get
I wouldn't even classify Super and Daima to be canon to be honest ... and on this topic why are they considered canon? did Toriyama himself even stated so? And even if he did, he also stated that he wanted to end the series with the Frieza Saga
If Toyotaro uses the same debunked timeline explanation one of the youtuber made several years back, then End of Z is totally possible. What I'm more concerned about is the next 10yrs plan they had for Dragon ball. Will this still be before end of Z? Or after? If they decide this to be before EoZ then oh Boy! This will become like One piece🤣🤣🤣 hope it's after! This way, there will be no more retcon!(Hoping) 😅
The og ending and Dragonball GT is the timeline where Beerus stays asleep. No canon Broly, no Freeza. The movies and Super are the timeline where Beerus wakes up. Canon Broly, Freeza. It's not that hard. Frankly we shouldn't be frozen in 1995 forever post 2013.
What if its because Bulma was betrayed and trapped in the time chamber for 10 years🤔😂
😂😂
She'd be pissed. But that's it. There are no materials there that would allow her to have a proper revenge.
@@bloody4558 you kiddin? If looks could kill, Goku and co would be dead.
Bulma is also the one person whom they don’t dodge when she swings at them. 10 years of training for her, she’d be at Yamcha-Krillin’s current level in no time flat!
@@onecoolboy98 Bulma does not have that kind of knowledge, if she had she'd be stronger than Chi Chi right now.
@ she's been watching Goku, Yamcha, and Vegeta train for years, and has watched all those super fast and powerful fights in her youth with no issue. Plus, she's the smartest woman on the planet. I'm sure she can pick up the basics.
It's obvious that the end of Z was made assuming there was nothing else to talk about in the story. Super and Daima are unfortunately subjected to the lack of future proofing.
The same could be said for yo son goku and friends return which takes place between the two.
@firionkaiser8291 true though at the time one could argue that it took place in Toei's version of Dragonball which was basically all the filler they made, the movies in the 90s and GT. It was separate from the Manga/Canon Dragonball.
Bro what do u mean after z they had something GT which people shit on cuz of the dubbing but is still more lore accurate to og and z series than supers recons.
@apexpredator9163 no GT is all Toei's doing and only fits into the 80s and 90s anime verse that they created while the Manga was on-going. It's actually a narrative mess when you realize that Toei Dragonball treats The Dead Zone as Canon despite it contradicted by episode one of Z.
@Seeyou45 Gt was more lore accurate to the whole franchises cannon than supers is on a lore and biological saiyan lore level
Toriyama stopped with tails so his ocd would stop bugging him, making him always think how do they put clothing with tails. True fact
Then he lies in interviews and panels, saying it's because he forgot saiyans had them or they dont need them after they hit a certain level of power, which is bulshit. Just a fake excuse to justify getting rid of tails.
This contridicts the fact that a saiyans no matter what are ne er at full power or can reach full power without their tails because is thw source of their power. Golu in the world tournament the second his tailed grow back said "i always feel so much stronger when i have my tail". Which no shit goku ur a saiyan ans your tail is the source of all ur true power
So tell me beside toriyama making super how the hell is super or daima fucking more lore accurate than GT is and a better ending to z
I love that dbs introduced Uub during the Moro ark
Honestly when Dragon Ball Super ends, it should be a revised version of the ending of Z to patch all the holes as it’s clear that the end of Z was made with assumptions that there would be nothing else in the story.
Super ended last year
@@wfanking1187 super was on a haitus
@@wfanking1187it’s a hiatus it’s coming back on February
Well that wouldn’t w
Really work as kid buu would be in the underworld and not reincarnated
Those last episodes should have never been made. I was under the impression that DBZ ended the moment majiin buu was defeated for years until I found out about these episodes many years later as an adult. These episodes are misleading as they give the impression there will be a brand new story to come and give dragon ball a God AWFUL ending! I absolutely HATEEE the last episode.
Goku spent 5 days in the time chamber and Bulma is frustrated with Goku wasting 5 years of his life to prep for Uub?
Not a bad theory
Why would Goku need to "prep" for someone who he beat and on top of that isn't a raging maniac?
@ you are forgetting the Moro spirit bomb dude
One more retcon. Bulma’s age/aging. Throughout Super, she constantly looks young and keeps making herself look younger. I doubt she aged 30-40ish years in 3. I also doubt she would do anything to try to look older all of a sudden. She looks way too young by the end of Super (or wherever we are in Super currently) for it too make any sense that she looks as old as she does at the end of Z.
They probably couldn’t beat Black Frieza so someone made a wish to make all wishes on the Earth dragon balls for the past 5 or so years moot and they use the the Namakein dragon balls to revive Piccolo and unlock his orange form again there you go?
Honestly I could see it being a gag based off something Dr. Hedo did.
@@firionkaiser8291yeah that could work
Tho krillin also looks old, so im guessing they're just gonna ignore it and keep them young looking
For some dumb reason: akira made bulma look wayy too old in the buu saga with that Karen haircut and lame Old lady dress. She wasn't even old, maybe early late 30s at best but looks way older with that lame haircut.
@ she is 51 dude so she looked her age and the smoking might have not helped and in battle of gods she was 45 not 38
Yes, after defeating Black Frieza they are going to find out that the strongest in the universe the Oracle Fish talked about was Uub all along because he has majin buu's potential but he needs to train to unleash it and properly develop it to the point where he can become the strongest so Goku is going to want to meet and train him which is what happens at the end of dbz.
I think this would be better
Uub doesn't just have Kid Buu's potential, he also has the Grand Supreme Kai's God Ki as well and the Grand Supreme Kai is the most powerful Supreme Kai in Universe 7.
Uub is best fighter because when he fuses with Buu, he becomes Majin Buub
Thats cool
@@ElasticGoblinthat joke would work if they didn't already name the fusion Majuub
Bulma says "We would've never seen you if we didn't come to you!!" and "Five years!! And even then, you weren't around much because of your training!"
Bulma says "we", meaning her and Vegeta. Meaning neither Bulma, nor Vegeta, have seen Goku in 5 years. And even when they did, they barely saw him because he was too busy training. Meaning he wasn't training with Vegeta at this time. It also means there were no life-threatening events taking place where they needed Goku to save the day. They didn't go looking for Goku to help beat up the bad guys, they went to Goku to socialise, and he was too busy training (likely with his family; Goten and Pan).
This means there was 10 years of peacetime. Goku and Vegeta never trained nor fought together. And Goku spent a lot of time training with his own family, fostering a good relationship with Pan. Bulma jokes about wishing to look younger, after seeing Goku hasn't aged one bit while she has. Vegeta didn't know about Uub either.
Super doesn't fit into any of this. In Super; Goku barely even remembers who Pan is. She was training with Piccolo, not Goku. Goten spent a lot of time with Trunks to the point they practically lived together, rather than quality time with his Dad. Goku and Vegeta are constantly training and battling foes together, and spend more time with each other than their wives. Bulma has already been making wishes to look younger, and even looks younger than she did in the Buu saga. Vegeta is well aware of Uub.
Spot on! It just doesn’t fit.
This can easily be retconned
@gukeoke6312 If they need to keep adding more retcons just to make it work... then it doesn't work. Super is already full of retcons as it is.
Actually he didn't forget pan it's just a joke that was lost in translation (because pan means bread in Japanese, Goku was confused on why they were suddenly going to go get bread)
@@bepbobbap Yeah, it was a bad joke, more-so since pretty much all characters are named after food. Yet the one time Goku gets confused is with Pan.
Modern Dragon Ball just really wants Goku to be a bad parent/grandparent/husband. It's weird. He was never that bad in the original manga, or even the Z anime adaptation.
It never made sense since it was to be 10 year of peace and I don't think the event of super could be peaceful
Either Toyotaro is gonna rewrite end of Z completely, or keep it 98% the same in respect to Toriyama.
Either way it's going to be exciting to see what he'll do after it
I would hate a rewrite... 😭😭😭
Right and I’m tired of waiting to know lol
Even years before Toriyama passed away, Toyotaro said EoZ wouldn't change.
Toriyama might be gone but doesn't mean he didn't have a draft for explaining the end of Z. They could easily go the route of multiverse or sacrificing their God hood like seven deadly sins. Or just add more dialogue to it. GT still happened and that was after the end of Z cannon or not.
It don't explain why Frieza is cannonly alive at the end of Z with a son.
The ending was bad then and is even worse now.
One of the biggest complaints made back in the day, "Why would Goku shoulder the responsibility of passing the torch to this one kid when his two sons and his granddaughter are literally right there?"
Now multiply that problem by a thousand because now there are even more passing of the torch canidates that are just straight up better than Uub.
I agree, as nostalgic as it feels it doesn't really seem like a good ending. Gohan was always gonna be the one to pass the torch. It even multiplied the moment we found out Trunks and Goten were the youngest super saiyans ever and that Trunks was the one to have the torch passed to by Future gohan in his other timeline. Now with Pan and even Bulla also coming into the picture it doesn't really make sense for UUB to be the main focus. Also now they made Broly a good guy which changes things.
He should definitely take him in and add him to the Z family but some of the things Toriama wrote doesn't really make sense and I feel like were more for gags. (not seeing bulma and vegeta for 5 years, instantly leaving Chichi and his entire family/still young son and grandaughter to train some random kid indefinitely even though he has instant transmission and can scale the earth in 5 seconds, and him and vegeta basically retiring early even though we know saiyans are at their peak even when they are over 100 years old and Goku and Vegeta are still super young in saiyan years.
@@kokroughtoss1257 Because Gohan doesn't want to be a fighter, Goten treats training like a casual hobby, and the family probably wouldn't let Goku throw Pan into that kind of life.
But Uub is already strong, driven, free to take on the burden, and is someone Goku personally requested when he killed Kid Buu. He qualifies.
@@SkiddyOcean117 you have never watched dragon Ball in your life Gohan Is A Scholar not a fighter Goten barely even trains at all trunks has to run capsule corporations and Pan Barely even trains Uub Has immense Potential as well also saiyans stay young until Like 80 years old and then become really old stated by toriyama himself they Don’t however Do Not age to like 100 plus years old that’s Viltramites also Broly is Way Older than Son Goku Himself he stated to be the Next Defender Of Earth If Son Goku ever perishes also The Last Thing He doesn’t leave his Family He Specifically Even Say’s I’ll Come Visit You From Time To Time To Pan Herself Go Watch Dragon Ball
toriyama prob got rid of goku outta spite bc his editors refused to let him kill goku
How do you figure that? I don't understand why dragon ball fans of all things keep going back to this point. Frieza barely trains and you see how much power he attained. Uub is the reincarnate of kid buu, kid buu is much stronger than frieza in their base state and has much more potential. If he trained the way frieza did he ought to be stronger than everyone in the universe.
Correct me if I'm wrong, so as for now the canon continuity would be
> DB (series)
> DB Z (Series)
> DB Z: The Return of Son Goku and Friend - Movie
> DB: Daima (Series)
> DB: Battle of God - Movie
> DB Super (Resurrection F included in the series/manga)
> DBS: Brolly - Movie
> DBS: Superhero - Movie
> DB Super: (Ultra Instinct vs Gohan Beast) - Manga
> DB Super ?? - for any future plan
> DB Z (the end of Z)
Goku doesn't transform against uub, hell no one does. Functionally all that happens in that end of Z tournament is a small tournament scale. End of Z should make sense.
Uub has kid Buu's potential for growth and learning capacity(highest in the series in my opinion at least when it comes to learning techniques) and it only gets better for Uub in super since he's a walking god ki battery
For the most part everything does. I think they did pretty good explaining and covering up any potential plot holes
Buu has more potential than Frieza ig
Trunks' hair color
Thanks to daima, Uub is the best of all 3 worlds: Demons, Gods, & mortals.
Kid buu was created in the demon realm, "stole" the godly essence from the daikaioshin, & was reincarnated into a human.
Uub is a Demon Demigod
They said it had been a quiet peaceful 10 years, in reality more happened in that 10 years than all of Z, also Bulma was complaining about never seeing Goku and that's obviously BS at this point.
The end of z will have to be remade somewhat to account for the new additions. Hoping if/when the manga comes back, they eventually reach that point
It doesn't, as the video showed the character don't need to be constantly talking about what happened in the past 10 years and they would only need to change a couple of lines of dialogue lol
@@Mari_Izu which they already have in a couple reprintings lol
The End of Z is canon, Super's canonicity on the other hand is debatable since it was written mostly by Toyotaro, Toriyama's participation in super is minimal.
ironically and most people missed it, but end of z episode is actually filler, like the episode where they goku gets a driver license. Super is canonically more canon since it based off Toriyama work on Battle of Gods continuity and his work on it
@AlamoOriginal Filler? Do you have a source for that? There's literally not a single person but you who believes that the end of z is filler.
@@macsenpai7006 i have a whole forum discussion about it, it strays far off from manga z ending which only shows Uub and the tournament games, and no more than that. The rest are just fillers to fill a tv program slot of 20 minutes.
Bruh....the writers hadn't thought of Super at that time.
They will simply have to change the ending.
The dragon is gonna get fed up with Bulma someday and finally let her age catch up with her
Another thing that doesn't make sense is Bulma coming up with the idea to use the dragon balls to not age. We've seen her do it in Super so she's already thought of that long before.
If they want to connect them, they gotta have the divine characters all get destroyed or something.
another continuity issue is that at the end of Z, vegeta is portrayed as just then being told by goku who uub is, how strong he is, etc. but then goku already told him in super (episode 30, to be exact) so now it makes no sense for him to be surprised
It would be nice to see them recreate the end of z in a way that makes sense once they get to that point in super
Yes, absolutely does. Goku doesnt need to fight at full strength every fkin time. 😂😂
For me it's INSANE that fans can't even realize that all theae stories are attempts to juice the franchise more and more (sorry Toriyama). That's why all Super and Daima feel like a fanfic or merely fan service: because that's what it is. With all due respect, even Tori had no respect (nor motivation) to keep an eye or truly expand this (even forgetting things like SS3), and hence he put a person that had his manga ideas (foo you, Granolah), while being a great artist when it came ro drawing. Money, money, money, and here we are discussing story telling.
They can say super it lies in another timeline easily and simply.
Just revise the ending. They didn’t know a canon sequel would happen
The original will always be canon just as GT is the true continuation no matter if it wasn't Toriyamas creation he contributed and was apart of making it happen. Supers a fun alternate timeline though
@@onlygoodgamesofficial ..that isnt how it works, gt isnt canon. plain and simple.
@@onlygoodgamesofficial GT isn't and will never be canon. Toriyama ended dragonball in 1995. Both GT and Super were cashgrabs made by other people.
Of course not. Why is this a question? You know Super retconned EoZ and that it doesn't fit. They're not trying to fit it together.
It's definitely something we can all ignore. Like Cell saying his nucleus was in his head a few chapters after Goku vaporized his head.
No it isn't
@Profitin oh okay. Well I hope you can continue to enjoy life 👍
Shenron got pissed and took away the 5 years worth of facelifts he's been giving Bulma
🤣
I feel db super will end with the end of z. As the events of the battle of gods movie appeared in the manga and anime with slight differences, db super will remake that end of z that all of us remember, changing the plot inaccuracies and adding more references to what the z warriors experienced in super. It might end up being more than one chapter, maybe a whole 7-chapter arc, for example. I hope it ends this way.
3 years out, two years hyperbolic For Goku, ther u go
I would love to see a reimagined version of End of Z, maybe featuring Broly and a more confident Pan
Super always felt like fan fiction to me, I think GT was a better sequel
Gt was worse than super
@bepbobbap maybe if you're 16 you'd say that but the plastic look of the animation and the lazy color swap transformations aren't it
As I always say when people bring out "EoZ is not canon anymore", I always say the only thing they need to correct are how long Goku and Bulma didn't interacted, and maybe Piccolo's reason to not participate in the tournament (He said he he couldn't get even close to the Saiyan's power level, but now he has orange Piccolo).
I don't really think the uub explanation works. End of Z goku is essentially desperate for a good fight and challenge, but that would mean he's seemingly launched himself ahead of characters like vegeta, brolly, gowan, beerus and even whis
Exactly, having Buu as the biggest threat the universe has ever had gives sense to the End of Z. Super simply makes everything ridiculous
I do agree tho with a bunch of these which is that they’d honestly have no reason to talk about Super’s events or a reason to transform either so I’d say technically it does still fit but they would need to edit that Bulma part for sure otherwise it still works
Bulma literally gets trolled by Goku and has to admit 5 years ago in between training trips, amime canon be damned
I'd be cool with the end of Super, in the Black Frieza fight, things get so dire that someone has to use the Dragon Balls to wish away the years when they met the gods and Frieza gets wished back , but the angels will remember what happened and never encounter Goku and Vegeta, and that's the years that bleed into the others.
Yes. It does. There’s some lines and appearances but don’t make sense, but overall, the end of DBZ can still fit nicely into the canon.
No it cant
dbs was actually a dream and goku was just trapped in the time chamber for 10 years
The intense aging up Bulma had in less then a year.
SuperHero takes place 1 year before EOZ, yet somehow she actually LOOKS 10 years older regardless of the fact shes been wishing to look younger the entire time.
I love EOZ Chi-Chi's hair, just a little odd she changes it so much in less then a year but thats fine
Pan is 4 in EOZ, and according to the Daizenshuu Bra(Bulla) is older by like a year.
Yet somehow Pan was born before Bra in DBS
I see all this discussion by people and such, yet all the facts just prove plain and simple that Dragon Ball Super is not canon, it's that simple.
shin pfp. i love you
Like the end of Tenchi Muyo in Love, everyone’s memory gets erased ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s heavily implied that the boys have gotten soft and stopped training because of the times of peace. This implies that it was peaceful since Goku defeated kid buu. Bulma has also aged, but in super she wishes to look younger so they will have to explain this along with not seeing Goku in 5 years, also she said she only saw him a couple times before then. Another retcon in the Super anime is, Vegeta already knows about Uub in Super anime. In DBZ anime and Manga, he knew nothing about Uub at all. This will also need to be fixed.
Eh the five year line can be debatable because in the same panels Bulma implies they briefly see Goku before he goes to run off and train which just confirms he hardly stays around long enough. For the most part he really does train a lot especially in the DBS manga.
They will need to make a new End of Z now to connect it properly to Super. The old End of Z connects more to GT due to the absence of power-ups and characters from Super.
They literally showed Dende telling Goku that Buu was resurrected and Goku just said "that's cool" and then fucking left....
He barely cared about a Buu level fighter at all already.
So no, the end of Z makes no sense anymore.
last one could just be excused to rounding up
Toriyama wanted to keep it because it puts a limit on what Toyotaro could do as he had already written the conclusive ending.
Anything outside of Dragon Ball Vol. 1-42 is a separate timeline
That is straight up wrong
@@bepbobbap It's very well established in Dragon Ball that many separate timelines exist I don't know why you'd even try and argue against this as it's very clearly true
I think they could redo end of Z atleast for the super anime once they get there, and they can fix any of the retconned elements
Toriyama was like goku: not that smart. He always forgot things of his own series.
more like he wasn't as involved in Super as fans like to think and in his heart the series was finished a long time ago to put if effort afterwards
It's been my opinion that the "End of Z" era should've never been taken that seriously since Akira Toriyama was said to have only done that whole 10-year time skip to help him finally end the manga cuz he was exhausted after writing it 10 years straight. So if it really does end up getting retconned at all through DBS, I could care less. Especially since the Cell Saga was the better ending for the series anyway, not that I haven't enjoyed the newer adventures with Goku and company for the most part.
It could be explained that maybe Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and Broly go into a hyperbolic time chamber esque thing to train up for Frieza for a few years so to him, it was 5 years. Or maybe we can chalk it up to him speaking in hyperbole. Either way, I’m really hoping the Super story explains everything and goes beyond the end of Z.
Freeza can't die in Super because is cannonly alive at the end of Z. his son, onio and vegata confirm it.
3:12 I KNOW THE EXPLANATION. Bulma simply has lost track since the last time she saw goku. Goku keeps his youth and by the end of Z is more “wise” or and even though bulmba may look she isn’t. Bulma made a mistake. #retcontheretcon
Honestly, I think it might just be that they werent saying 5 years literally. Although, Im not at that point in the series yet, so I wouldnt know 100%
Amazing😊😊😊
Maybe Goku goes in the time chamber for 2 years to prepare to fight Frieza. And somebody wishes to undo Bulmas anti aging wishes xD
Yeah . . . I always thought Super should’ve taken place after the End of Z.
If it were me, I would have made End Of Z, the end of everything. After GT, then end everything. Want Super? Ok make it happen after GT. Just focus on Uub, Vegeta, Gohan.
The Supreme Kai and Kibito are no longer fused by the time of the tournament of destroyers/u6 v u7 tournament
Like you said, Goku could’ve just misremembered the year, or maybe Bulma became delusional in that short period of time
Or... well... Super just isn't canon.
Aw yeah it’s Beanboi time
I have a theory Boma did not care because it does not matter. I mean what was true to the date of knowing that bone was been around these two in especially Goku for decades. I’m pretty sure should’ve gotten used to Goku’s stupidity.
You have a valid point but idc not to be rude but still I’m sure one minor flaw is gonna do much harm for the story at all
Super can’t fit into the end of Z at all
Goku didn’t even know how old he was at one point in the series. He never went to school afterwards. So we can just say that Goku rounded up because he doesn’t know numbers.
And how many times do you think goku’s friends have corrected his math. They are sick of doing it.
a**p*ull
its not that hard after seing a person for atleast like a year
"uhh its actually .... years"
its annoying to correct in often in a span of like 5 minutes....
It still makes since 3 years is almost 5 years
Correction, did Super fail to logically bridge the gap toward the epilogue. The answer is, probably. Primary issue is that Bulma seems to think she hasn’t seen Goku in a long time, but that ain’t true in super.
If we are being honest Daima and Super are going to have a difficult time connecting to each other since Kibitokai is in BoG but has defused before Daima starts. They are all canon, but maybe Toriyama was planning a multiverse of sorts before he passed
Daima has not finished and there is plenty of time for them to fuse again
I’ve always said to my subconscious when battle of gods released and then once I was put on to do super that dragonball gt would always take place after super because in reality super took place literally right after the final bout with kid
Buy so it would make so much sense of why he would be expecting uub
For me I take the end of z as non canon at this point
I am not a fan of midquels. They always sit weirdly in the continuity when they are not planned from the start.
Like that Black Widow movie.
Dragon Ball has been known to be having retcons, and that still didn't ruin the continuity, plus this is just one error, so it really shouldn't be a big deal.
There are many mistakes that really show us how End of Z can't happen, End of Super now is a better name to call it as a new variation of that ending.
Dude no matter how you slice it, Toriyama/ Toyotaro's intention is to connect Super to End of Z, even if it have some continuity error (which isn't that bad and just single minor one)
@@RianeouRiandosSantosFerreira
@RagingBlazeBloodBaka Their intention never ever existed to make any connection, also it's not only one minor mistake, there are many, that turn it impossible to be anything alike to what it was before.
@@RianeouRiandosSantosFerreira Super was literally written by Toriyama to take place before End of Z. The movies that started Super are classified as Dragon Ball Z, and not Super, too. If he wanted it take place after End of Z, he would have written it that way. And if it were supposed to entirely retcon End of Z, why have they established Uub, who is an End of Z-exclusive character?
You're literally being obtuse on purpose. You know, full well, that End of Z will follow Super, or be written to take place sometime during Super. You're just so salty that Super is canon, and written by Toriyama, that you just can't accept it. Face facts, lil' bro, GT isn't canon and Super is.
@@RianeouRiandosSantosFerreiraYou better not be referring to the "ten years of peace" line which is just filler and never stated in the manga.
If that fat Kai was so strong how'd he get absorbed by Buu? I swear between Toei and Toriyama this story is all over the place
Same way gohan or vegeto got absorbed when they were more powerful than super buu
I’m sorry but this is an L take 😂 mf since when does Goku know math? While Goku IS smart, buuut he’s not so intelligent. I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t even know how to count! 😭
Too goku it could seem like 5 years if he went into the Hyperbolic Time Chamber at any period of time between 781 and 784.
Could still work if need be.
End of Z still makes sense because I refuse to acknowledge Super and Daima as canon.
does super still make sense?
nope
all i'm saying is if they retcon eoz or edit it or skip past it entirely i wouldn't be mad, it's a stinky ending 🤭
it could just the true with just overestimating
no one has any reason to not point out a few year overestimation bc its not like its at all important
I'm just saying..... If Uub vs Goku DOES happen...... Well... I think we all know the outcome if they use Supers continuity
Obviously end of z has been retconned lol. Its been nearly a decade since super came out and there has been alot of new things added to the series. Not to mention daima has introduced several dozen retcons of its own, to the point people have just sort of "headcanon'ed" that its its own split in the timeline, completely different from even super.
I want them to somehow make everyone lose their god ki (well not want but it’s something that could be possible)
There is also another retcon about how there was ten years of peace pretty sure they mentioned that so yea another retcon
That’s not a retcon. You people are so dumb it infuriates me. Nothing that happens in Super disturbs the peace of the larger world.
@busymike We literally had zamasu infecting timeliness and a tournament held to see what universe survives what do you mean
@@busymike
Beerus
Golden Frieza
Goku Black
TOP
Broly
Moro
Cell Max
@@busymike what is you talking about what defines peace to you like damn did you even watch super also Bulma doesn’t age in super but at End Of Z She does another retcon
I just don’t have the energy anymore to reply to all of this stupidity. None of these arcs had an impact on the larger world the way the buu saga did you idiots. Do I have to break down every arc? I’m not doing that. Why don’t you imbeciles actually watch the show.
The ending stopped making sense the moment they tried shoehorning crap in between it.
Freeza is cannonly alive at the end of Z🤣😂🤣
You should do your own what if end of z/gt super lol but right after senzu bean never existed or cell jr survived or now
What do you mean by End of GT & Super?
@ like to see his own end of z and gt in super lol
yeah i think they will just skip over that part, or maybe just say 3 years instead of 5. for me its not a big deal.
Goku and Vegeta entered that time chamber in U6 saga and TOP saga
even then
Bulma couldve made a mistake she is human after all cuz she keeps
using the dragon balls to deage which makes her track of her age at times maybe intercept her statements. it happens. shes a human
Goku mightve just been in the tine chamber training which explaisn why its been so long since theyve seen eachother
2:22 when, in your real life (let’s pretend y’all have freinds for a bit) has anyone told you “mAn tHe lAsT 10 yEaRs wHeRe cRaZy” ?? Oh people don’t do that? Okay…
I actually think the end of Z was made assuming there was a possibility for a continuation later but no likely guarantee. And thus why there was room for super to be born when that unlikely chance actually became the reality
End of Z goku still makes tons of sense and he can just be ultra instinct trained up by the angels whom he is trying to pass down to uub
Now the longer super goes without getting past the time skip end of Z and going into the GT and AF time frame of things with truly new material and transformations etc… the higher the chance for contradiction inconsistency and destruction of end of Z sense will get
You have forget the retcon of bulma age
I wouldn't even classify Super and Daima to be canon to be honest ... and on this topic why are they considered canon? did Toriyama himself even stated so? And even if he did, he also stated that he wanted to end the series with the Frieza Saga
I think End of Z can work if you alter some things
If Toyotaro uses the same debunked timeline explanation one of the youtuber made several years back, then End of Z is totally possible. What I'm more concerned about is the next 10yrs plan they had for Dragon ball. Will this still be before end of Z? Or after? If they decide this to be before EoZ then oh Boy! This will become like One piece🤣🤣🤣 hope it's after! This way, there will be no more retcon!(Hoping) 😅
Y so if kid buu was god level how goku could fight him ?
Still don't make sense
The og ending and Dragonball GT is the timeline where Beerus stays asleep. No canon Broly, no Freeza. The movies and Super are the timeline where Beerus wakes up. Canon Broly, Freeza. It's not that hard. Frankly we shouldn't be frozen in 1995 forever post 2013.
Yes End Of Z still makes sense.
Because Dragon Ball Super just like GT is an alternate universe.
Dragon Ball is and will always be just 42 books
Super and Daima arent canon to the og manga, its that easy. Its all different continuities.
2:58 time travel ?