Correction: On Video I keep calling the headway pack a 64Ah when its a 48Ah pack. It does change some of the statements I make on the video but not enough for me to redo the video- Im lazy.
Jehu, Thank you for the great quality tests and products. I’m a repeat customer of yours and have both these headways and the LEV60’s. Pretty much all lead acids swapped out now with either LiFePO4 or LTO’s. These things are beasts!
Nice test! There is no substitute for real-world testing. When I built the first prototype EVSR electric race car, I used 3/8” thick aluminum bus bars, but they would overheat during race conditions (typically 800amp at 160v for as much as a 95% duty cycle, depending on the race track) so I upgraded to 1/2” thick, and that solved the overheating problem.
buy a uni-t ut221 clamp meter , it is a bit expensive (150$) but it can measure 2000amps dc! . make sure its the ut221 as the ut220 is ac only or the ut222 can measure 2500amps dc. ut207b & 208b is around 100$ and they measure upto 1000amps dc. i have the ut204+ and the meter is very accurate and it was 45$ and only does 600amps which is enough for me but not enough for your tests.
Electrical installations use parallel cables all the time, EVERY stranded wire is infact parallel wires in a single assembly. Anyone who says you cant use multiple cables just doesnt understand electricity. you will see things like what you did one wire will see different amperage due to length, and connection resistance. But if you get them reasonable to the same lengh the difference can be ignored.
As always, great video Jeh. People using Headway cells for car audio and as you mentioned (in min 9) is connected to the alternator so my question is it safe to connect to it directly ? as I know the alternator when connected to lithium battery (for charging) which has for sure low IR will get fried ? TIA
@jehugarcia I have to charge headway pack for my audio system using the alternator (chargeing while inside the vehicle) or external AC-DC power supply at home ?
I think your points/conclusions are valid, but getting temps from those aluminum busbars via a thermal cam can be extremely inaccurate. Teledyne/FLIR has a good article describing this - since I can't add the direct link, you can google "How Does Emissivity Affect Thermal Imaging?" to find it.
Yeah thermal emissivity is going to affect the readings a bit but where he was measuring the circuit board material the emissivity of the solder mask over the copper traces for the busbars is going to show fairly close to accurate. An even better way of measuring would be if he could add a 4-channel k-type thermocouple measurement and attach the 4 thermocouples to various places on the battery to get a second, more accurate reading to compare with the thermal camera data. Even a piece of black masking or vinyl tape placed on the areas to be measured could help with the accuracy when using an IR camera or and IR thermal gun since they both are affected the same way regarding emissivity.
Black electrical tape on shiny surfaces works great. Those readings the other guy was getting on the shiny aluminum almost looked like reflected heat from something in the background, not the actual lugs.
Hello friend, I have a 2013 Honda Pilot truck and I want to remove the original battery to change it for a LEV60 since I do not want to sacrifice space, my question is if there would be problems putting the LEB60 battery in the space of the original, that is, under the hood? and what should I take into account
Lithium-based batteries cannot handle the extremely high temperatures you see under the hood. It is always recommended that they be installed inside the vehicle. In a lot of cases the upper recommended temperature is 140 to 160 degrees Fahrenheit. In the engine compartment temperatures get well over 200 in can result in premature failure.
Once again another well put together video! You are the best youtuber when it comes to batteries! In my opinion of course. Also big fan of your battery store! bought some batteries awhile back just to try em out and was pleasantly surprised with the energy density for the cost! Definitely saving up for a big purchase in the hopefully near future! I just hope the batteries I have an eye on doesn't sell out before I get too them! hahaha 🤑🤑🤑👍
@@mjr11yeah, some dudes over in an unnamed audio group are claiming some truly ridiculous things. Shows how shady they really are, and how cult-ish their followers are.
I don't know who said to not use multiple most definitely use multiple cables specially if the rating on the guage wire you are using is less than what you plan on charging or pulling from the bank
Such a great channel and ideas, builts and what not, but unfortunatelly no opportunity to build anything like this cause there is no EU warehouse or partner looking for a similiar offer like yours. Nice to watch, learn a lot but in the same moment the big bubble of joy explodes . Keep going on - follow the channel for over 5 years already and so often had a feeling must build that one but could not. So I ended up in the usual ordinary EV LF280K world putting 16S together to a pack of cells from china that also delivered what they had been promising, but paid a lot more than you big battery cell offers for the US.
I really get mad when a person takes knowledge for free on RUclips and then try to criticize the ones that are sharing the knowledge for free. You always give people the choice of buy from you or just diy. You have the wright to charge whatever you want for the items you sale. As an engineer with more than 15 years of experience working with batteries I can tell that your set of tests are the best that they can be with the equipment that you have and certainly a lot more accurate than those of the clown of the multiple color beard. For those guys trying to craft a high power audio system…. “The week is already invented” do not try to cut corners… is you want to move a lot of current fast, you need multiple cables with a good distribution over good chunks of copper bussbars. This is the only way to do is right. The only reason to use single cable is because cable is really expensive and terminals are more expensive. Less cable is less money….. but MORE FIRE HAZZARD
Good video! You can use a 500A or even 1000A shunt with an INA199A or similar Current sense amplifier and build your own tool quite cheaply to measure the high current. Or even easier, use just the shunt then use a precision volt meter to measure the voltage drop across the shunt then I = V / R, R = V / I , R = 75mV / 1000A, R = 0.075 Ohms . All the best!
On a serious note, lots of people know ohms law, but so many people forget about trying to do the math and solve the equations. I guess we are all guilty of being lazy sometimes in this world of convieniences.
i am xonfused man, i saw another of your videos where you did the test on the green cells and the pulled more then 600AH, here the headway pulled 400ah or so, so wich one is the better choise here ? how's the headway 20ah ahead of the green battery ?
He can choose whatever load he wants to put on there. 100 amp, 300 amp, 500 amp Etc. These two batteries in these sizes are pretty much equivalent. The Headway is going to be used while the Lev60 is going to be new. The Headway cells don't require compression, but the Prismatic Lev60 cells do require compression if you're going to be pulling heavy loads from it.
“Never attribute to malice to that which is adequately explained by stupidity”. Not fighting words but it would be interesting to get to the bottom of the discrepancy. You touch the wires so I think it’s safe to assume your thermal cam isn’t off by 150 degrees. Is his thermometer off? Is there a way to prove your amp meter is accurate? Seems like an opportunity to learn.
Good quote, but not infallible. The problem with it is that genuinely malicious people (though they may be very tiny minority in the population, tiny but influential) as a result don't get properly attributed as malicious when they're smart enough to leave "evidence of stupidity" with which to minimize or eliminate any appearance of malicious intent.
@@TheArchimedesEffect The quote isn't trying to state things can't be malicious, just that you shouldn't assume maliciousness when it's most likely just ignorance. @jehugarcia's test seems to be a real world test so I'm really curious what's the difference here. Does xxx amps traveling from one end of the plate to another vs pulling from a battery attached to the plate at various points make that kind of difference? I mean the electrons or field is traveling in a loop from positive to negative around the circuit in my limited understanding... so seems like it wouldn't make a difference... what gives? IMO, there's something to be learned here. Also I'm much more likely to pay attention to someone who's been wrong, admitted it, and learned from it than someone who is never wrong (or claims to never be wrong) as how can you trust them? @SmarterEveryDay, @Veritasium, or hell, even @ProjectFarm and many others would probably try to get to the bottom of this. If nothing else it's interesting content for viewers 🙂 just my $.02
Good stuff there. Unfortunately for some of Jehu's detractors, specifically an unnamed pair that holds the attention of many others, it's already been shown that their motivations for pooping on Jehu's products are purely driven by perverse financial incentives. They can't claim ignorance anymore because now 'the cat is out of the bag' and many of their cult-ish followers now know it.
I’ve been trying to power a project with 2 of your batteries off your website but I can’t get them working correctly. Both were bought tested with the bms awake. Don’t know what do to. Rlly starting to hate that your policy is that the returns are just store credit. Wishing I would’ve just went with drill batteries. Not impressed so far and just wanna finish my project. I’m almost $150 into these batteries from you. Could you please help in some way bc this shouldn’t be this difficult.
If the BMS is awake you should be able to measure the same voltage at the output terminals as you do when directly measuring the battery terminals. Which batteries did you buy and how are you trying to configure them?
They are 2 20cell 36v 187wh 5.2ah in parallel. I originally was using 1 battery but it would go for about 10sec before it completely cut power. The support team said my speed controller was pulling too may amps and when I sent the specs of the speed controller they confirmed that. It’s a 32a speed controller. They told me I needed another battery and wire it in parallel. My battery came in yesterday and after fully charging them both, I tried it again and it wen for longer, about 30sec but then again it would die out.
I don’t know if ot makes a difference but as soon as they were plugged into the 2 battery parallel amp booster they both starting to blink red instead of blue
The issue is you are nearly exceeding the cells thermal rating within 6 min and "these audio guys" run for hours at a time. Spreading out the load isnt an issue and is encouraged as can bee seen with the thicker bussing thats used having many spots. I agree Seth's test was flawed because it was pulling power incorrectly. But to me, this shows the traces need to be thicker and can be done so cheaply.
@@jehugarcia I encourage you to go to some audio shows and see how people use these in application. There's a decent amount in your state and they are free (and fun) to attend. Bring your clamp, volt meter, and thermal cam and ask if you can take some measurements, most will be happy to oblige.
Who TF said not to run multiple wires. Run as many wires as you can afford to run. Wire gets hot when it gets hot it loses efficiency. So you need multiple wires to maintain your efficiency run as many runs as you can afford
Every time I click on the link to find this $150 price talked about in the video it keeps taking me to the product that’s $229. On yesterday’s video, when I tried to click on the link, same thing happened, it keeps taking me to a higher priced product Or individual cells that are selling at $49 for each cell . What adds up to a lot more than $150 . What is wrong with the link clicking on not showing the product mentioned in the video
this is where the link should take you scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/363321648_10162690785091978_1789931011703396194_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=Zw1oSYx-T4EAX9tl4Bn&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AfC8N0_gMSo8o-XRJWzk2KKvFuVcD3w9ZYXu0Ukktu4WFg&oe=64C62265
There's a drop down menu with variants, but there's no $49 cells in there, is this the page you end up at? facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10162690786751978&set=p.10162690786751978&type=3&av=584751977&eav=AfbCbKK37Z8B9ajoZbne_q2SI_8TLYOpKl7XJZppU5a6IUw-Q4iVYdtlCrii8YDoPJw
Correction: On Video I keep calling the headway pack a 64Ah when its a 48Ah pack. It does change some of the statements I make on the video but not enough for me to redo the video- Im lazy.
You've been dealing with 64Ah so long that it's force of habit. Reasonable people will understand. Haters and trolls will do what they do.
Hi.is a new cells or used?
Jehu,
Thank you for the great quality tests and products. I’m a repeat customer of yours and have both these headways and the LEV60’s. Pretty much all lead acids swapped out now with either LiFePO4 or LTO’s. These things are beasts!
I just wanna listen to jehu talking all day. Thanks for all you do
Nice test! There is no substitute for real-world testing. When I built the first prototype EVSR electric race car, I used 3/8” thick aluminum bus bars, but they would overheat during race conditions (typically 800amp at 160v for as much as a 95% duty cycle, depending on the race track) so I upgraded to 1/2” thick, and that solved the overheating problem.
comment is useless if you don't tell us the width
@@elevatedsciencesllc8089 bus bars are approximately 1"wide by 3.5" long, 1/2: thick
Idk why I vision you as the guy on 300..... This is Sparta !!!!!! Well this video should end the drama.
Hello I need to know when your website is going to have the 48AH 12V HEADWAY BUSBAR PCB KIT, 1000A CAPABLE! without the blocks in thanks.
they are in stock now jag35.com/collections/new-arrivals/products/48ah-12v-headway-busbar-pcb-kit-1000a-capable?variant=40909240107123
@@jehugarcia Thank you
Have you ever thought about putting together a video regarding Battery fires/safety? Have you had any fires?
buy a uni-t ut221 clamp meter , it is a bit expensive (150$) but it can measure 2000amps dc! . make sure its the ut221 as the ut220 is ac only or the ut222 can measure 2500amps dc.
ut207b & 208b is around 100$ and they measure upto 1000amps dc.
i have the ut204+ and the meter is very accurate and it was 45$ and only does 600amps which is enough for me but not enough for your tests.
Electrical installations use parallel cables all the time, EVERY stranded wire is infact parallel wires in a single assembly. Anyone who says you cant use multiple cables just doesnt understand electricity. you will see things like what you did one wire will see different amperage due to length, and connection resistance. But if you get them reasonable to the same lengh the difference can be ignored.
Wish i saw these lev60 batteries before i bought my headway bus bars. Still need to buy the cells though maybe i will just go lev60. Very cool videos!
As always, great video Jeh. People using Headway cells for car audio and as you mentioned (in min 9) is connected to the alternator so my question is it safe to connect to it directly ? as I know the alternator when connected to lithium battery (for charging) which has for sure low IR will get fried ? TIA
sorry I don't understand your question
@jehugarcia I have to charge headway pack for my audio system using the alternator (chargeing while inside the vehicle) or external AC-DC power supply at home ?
@@jehugarciawhere can I get the green battery 🔋? And cell name?
@@amerkhafagiable a stock alternator will charge it just fine
Fluke 355 True RMS 2000 A Clamp Meter, and it holds its value if you need to resell
Good recommendation
I think your points/conclusions are valid, but getting temps from those aluminum busbars via a thermal cam can be extremely inaccurate. Teledyne/FLIR has a good article describing this - since I can't add the direct link, you can google "How Does Emissivity Affect Thermal Imaging?" to find it.
Yeah thermal emissivity is going to affect the readings a bit but where he was measuring the circuit board material the emissivity of the solder mask over the copper traces for the busbars is going to show fairly close to accurate. An even better way of measuring would be if he could add a 4-channel k-type thermocouple measurement and attach the 4 thermocouples to various places on the battery to get a second, more accurate reading to compare with the thermal camera data. Even a piece of black masking or vinyl tape placed on the areas to be measured could help with the accuracy when using an IR camera or and IR thermal gun since they both are affected the same way regarding emissivity.
Black electrical tape on shiny surfaces works great. Those readings the other guy was getting on the shiny aluminum almost looked like reflected heat from something in the background, not the actual lugs.
Hello friend, I have a 2013 Honda Pilot truck and I want to remove the original battery to change it for a LEV60 since I do not want to sacrifice space, my question is if there would be problems putting the LEB60 battery in the space of the original, that is, under the hood? and what should I take into account
Lithium-based batteries cannot handle the extremely high temperatures you see under the hood. It is always recommended that they be installed inside the vehicle. In a lot of cases the upper recommended temperature is 140 to 160 degrees Fahrenheit. In the engine compartment temperatures get well over 200 in can result in premature failure.
Once again another well put together video! You are the best youtuber when it comes to batteries! In my opinion of course. Also big fan of your battery store! bought some batteries awhile back just to try em out and was pleasantly surprised with the energy density for the cost! Definitely saving up for a big purchase in the hopefully near future! I just hope the batteries I have an eye on doesn't sell out before I get too them! hahaha 🤑🤑🤑👍
Hey man you’re hiding the 300 degree spot under the bms 🤣
There’s no bms on this pack
@@jehugarciaoops I meant the cell monitor that was on there, just kidding though that’s where he claimed it was hottest in that video lol
Yeah he probably would, or do you mean he actually did?
@@mjr11yeah, some dudes over in an unnamed audio group are claiming some truly ridiculous things. Shows how shady they really are, and how cult-ish their followers are.
Can i charge the green battery with a car alternator that puts out 14.5vdc?
I don't know who said to not use multiple most definitely use multiple cables specially if the rating on the guage wire you are using is less than what you plan on charging or pulling from the bank
Such a great channel and ideas, builts and what not, but unfortunatelly no opportunity to build anything like this cause there is no EU warehouse or partner looking for a similiar offer like yours.
Nice to watch, learn a lot but in the same moment the big bubble of joy explodes .
Keep going on - follow the channel for over 5 years already and so often had a feeling must build that one but could not.
So I ended up in the usual ordinary EV LF280K world putting 16S together to a pack of cells from china that also delivered what they had been promising, but paid a lot more than you big battery cell offers for the US.
Do they come with bms can they be parlled and series in other words can I build a bank you love to talk to you man
I really get mad when a person takes knowledge for free on RUclips and then try to criticize the ones that are sharing the knowledge for free. You always give people the choice of buy from you or just diy. You have the wright to charge whatever you want for the items you sale. As an engineer with more than 15 years of experience working with batteries I can tell that your set of tests are the best that they can be with the equipment that you have and certainly a lot more accurate than those of the clown of the multiple color beard. For those guys trying to craft a high power audio system…. “The week is already invented” do not try to cut corners… is you want to move a lot of current fast, you need multiple cables with a good distribution over good chunks of copper bussbars. This is the only way to do is right. The only reason to use single cable is because cable is really expensive and terminals are more expensive. Less cable is less money….. but MORE FIRE HAZZARD
Good video! You can use a 500A or even 1000A shunt with an INA199A or similar Current sense amplifier and build your own tool quite cheaply to measure the high current. Or even easier, use just the shunt then use a precision volt meter to measure the voltage drop across the shunt then I = V / R, R = V / I , R = 75mV / 1000A, R = 0.075 Ohms . All the best!
On a serious note, lots of people know ohms law, but so many people forget about trying to do the math and solve the equations. I guess we are all guilty of being lazy sometimes in this world of convieniences.
@@catch22frubert true that. I posted the formulas to look smarter, but I used chatgpt to come up with the equation for the current. :)
i am xonfused man, i saw another of your videos where you did the test on the green cells and the pulled more then 600AH, here the headway pulled 400ah or so, so wich one is the better choise here ? how's the headway 20ah ahead of the green battery ?
He can choose whatever load he wants to put on there. 100 amp, 300 amp, 500 amp Etc. These two batteries in these sizes are pretty much equivalent. The Headway is going to be used while the Lev60 is going to be new. The Headway cells don't require compression, but the Prismatic Lev60 cells do require compression if you're going to be pulling heavy loads from it.
You should do a car audio build using your equipment
Something extreme to prove the haters wrong 😅
Why… I’m not going to swade any haters, genuine people don’t hate.
@@jehugarcia it will be fun tho 😂 well I love car audio
Id like to try the Lev60 cells for this very reason. I want to push an 8K system with a stock alt and see how it fairs.
Hi you will need a torque wrench to talk down the bolts correctly which will help with heat on the buss bar.
People, please do your homework, before plunging into products you know very little about.
I didn't want to say the obvious, but thanks for saying it.
You have the lev60 for $150 still?
Jehu cool test that's definitely needed but would be legit if you could measure full current
“Never attribute to malice to that which is adequately explained by stupidity”. Not fighting words but it would be interesting to get to the bottom of the discrepancy. You touch the wires so I think it’s safe to assume your thermal cam isn’t off by 150 degrees. Is his thermometer off? Is there a way to prove your amp meter is accurate? Seems like an opportunity to learn.
Good quote, but not infallible. The problem with it is that genuinely malicious people (though they may be very tiny minority in the population, tiny but influential) as a result don't get properly attributed as malicious when they're smart enough to leave "evidence of stupidity" with which to minimize or eliminate any appearance of malicious intent.
@@TheArchimedesEffect The quote isn't trying to state things can't be malicious, just that you shouldn't assume maliciousness when it's most likely just ignorance.
@jehugarcia's test seems to be a real world test so I'm really curious what's the difference here. Does xxx amps traveling from one end of the plate to another vs pulling from a battery attached to the plate at various points make that kind of difference? I mean the electrons or field is traveling in a loop from positive to negative around the circuit in my limited understanding... so seems like it wouldn't make a difference... what gives? IMO, there's something to be learned here. Also I'm much more likely to pay attention to someone who's been wrong, admitted it, and learned from it than someone who is never wrong (or claims to never be wrong) as how can you trust them? @SmarterEveryDay, @Veritasium, or hell, even @ProjectFarm and many others would probably try to get to the bottom of this. If nothing else it's interesting content for viewers 🙂
just my $.02
Good stuff there. Unfortunately for some of Jehu's detractors, specifically an unnamed pair that holds the attention of many others, it's already been shown that their motivations for pooping on Jehu's products are purely driven by perverse financial incentives. They can't claim ignorance anymore because now 'the cat is out of the bag' and many of their cult-ish followers now know it.
Do you still have them 4 sale $150 i would like two maybe 3
Nope those are all sold out
@@jehugarcia so do u have anything good to run my truck.
I’ve been trying to power a project with 2 of your batteries off your website but I can’t get them working correctly. Both were bought tested with the bms awake. Don’t know what do to. Rlly starting to hate that your policy is that the returns are just store credit. Wishing I would’ve just went with drill batteries. Not impressed so far and just wanna finish my project. I’m almost $150 into these batteries from you. Could you please help in some way bc this shouldn’t be this difficult.
If the BMS is awake you should be able to measure the same voltage at the output terminals as you do when directly measuring the battery terminals. Which batteries did you buy and how are you trying to configure them?
yeah how about some details so we can help
@@kuhrd2 of the 20cells in parallel because the support told me I needed to buy another one and run in parallel
They are 2 20cell 36v 187wh 5.2ah in parallel. I originally was using 1 battery but it would go for about 10sec before it completely cut power. The support team said my speed controller was pulling too may amps and when I sent the specs of the speed controller they confirmed that. It’s a 32a speed controller. They told me I needed another battery and wire it in parallel. My battery came in yesterday and after fully charging them both, I tried it again and it wen for longer, about 30sec but then again it would die out.
I don’t know if ot makes a difference but as soon as they were plugged into the 2 battery parallel amp booster they both starting to blink red instead of blue
do a similar test on those a123 50ah pouch cells , they are also rated at high discharge .
I dont won't the headway. Where can i get the other battery?
They are still available from other battery suppliers. Just do a search online. Battery hookup.
Do I need to balance the lev60 cells and what balancer do I need to run on it
I recommend using one of these amzn.to/45aNseJ
Hello boss I need to help
The issue is you are nearly exceeding the cells thermal rating within 6 min and "these audio guys" run for hours at a time. Spreading out the load isnt an issue and is encouraged as can bee seen with the thicker bussing thats used having many spots. I agree Seth's test was flawed because it was pulling power incorrectly. But to me, this shows the traces need to be thicker and can be done so cheaply.
But 6 min continuous test = 1 hour dynamic music load
@@jehugarcia I encourage you to go to some audio shows and see how people use these in application. There's a decent amount in your state and they are free (and fun) to attend. Bring your clamp, volt meter, and thermal cam and ask if you can take some measurements, most will be happy to oblige.
Who TF said not to run multiple wires. Run as many wires as you can afford to run. Wire gets hot when it gets hot it loses efficiency. So you need multiple wires to maintain your efficiency run as many runs as you can afford
Love reading all the comments
👍👍👍
600A meter is 37$ bro
Every time I click on the link to find this $150 price talked about in the video it keeps taking me to the product that’s $229.
On yesterday’s video, when I tried to click on the link, same thing happened, it keeps taking me to a higher priced product
Or individual cells that are selling at $49 for each cell .
What adds up to a lot more than $150 .
What is wrong with the link clicking on not showing the product mentioned in the video
this is where the link should take you scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/363321648_10162690785091978_1789931011703396194_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=Zw1oSYx-T4EAX9tl4Bn&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=00_AfC8N0_gMSo8o-XRJWzk2KKvFuVcD3w9ZYXu0Ukktu4WFg&oe=64C62265
There's a drop down menu with variants, but there's no $49 cells in there, is this the page you end up at? facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10162690786751978&set=p.10162690786751978&type=3&av=584751977&eav=AfbCbKK37Z8B9ajoZbne_q2SI_8TLYOpKl7XJZppU5a6IUw-Q4iVYdtlCrii8YDoPJw