I think these tests are a needed thing, and I love how you run a thermal check on them to see whats heating up if anything. After seeing that inverter fail you I will not be trusting my own cheap inverter without some serious safeguards in place. Great video Jehu.
I've also had to return that inverter. I've been enjoying the omsnipower (or something like that. The black and white ones) anyway by design I matched a couple of those with bms's that could only do 120 amps so the inverters only work at 3/4 their potential. They've lasted a couple years with daily usage. So far so good. I have a lot of those headway cells. I would LOVE TO SEE MORE CONTENT ON THEM. They're a big deal in the car audio world, might also help get some more subscribers bro! Take care, stoked for the part 2 of the headway/circ board saga
I got the superbeast turned into 12v at 96ah with 48 of these cells and a 2000watt inverter and ive ran 1600 watts with no issues at all so far, i got 4g wire about 1ft long with 160amp fuse on the positive. Mainly wanted it for running fans and charging my power chair when camping
It's not advisable to solder battery terminals. The solder may not be able to hold the current coming out of the batteries. It introduces additional resistance which generates heat.
You really should use much larger gauge wire for these connections...at least 0 gauge...possibly 00. Hell...I use two 4 gauge cables for my 1500 watt inverter...and they still get a bit warm.
My "AIMS 2500" has 0000 cables and it runs an air conditioner and a coffee maker. Air conditioner 2 hours on 2 AGM 100ah. I can't wait to build my Headway Bank and try it out this summer. Maybe with solar and 38120hp it will run till dark.
Just fyi, solder is about 15% of the conductivity of copper. Solder in a high current application is not a good idea. Even a small amount of soft solder in a crimp connection would allow movement from mechanical or thermal conditions and cause higher resistance, and therefore more heat, higher resistance, runaway increase in temperature until the joint melts or flames. A properly done crimp connection is FAR better in high current applications.
7:55 Thats because there was voltage drop in the wires, around 1v difference I guess, if you have less voltage to pull the same amount of energy (W) you will have more amperage.
I am sold, I want some of those batteries. Which I could see the difference in performance in a 48v system. I honestly believe it is a reasonable inverter just the fan didn't work but it ran 3000w before. He just got a bad one. Big blow to the manufacturer of the inverter though after seeing this you know people going to avoid it.
Jehu's channel is turning into a 'what cheap electronics accessories NOT to buy". :) lots of good reviews about cheap "reliable electric" inverters being aim clones. Hope you can put those to the test with batteries to see what happens.
You should measure the input DC voltage at the inverter's input terminals. You are getting significantly less than 12V at the inverter's inputs, and that is what caused the inverter to fail. The inverter is drawing more current from the battery to compensate for the reduced voltage at its input terminals. A lower input voltage makes the inverter's efficiency go down, requiring even more input current to maintain the 2200W AC power at its output. I'm surprised the inverter doesn't have a low input voltage safety shutoff, but you get what you pay for (sometimes).
1/0 copper cable is what I use for my 2400w inverter connected to 300 amp hours of battery. I ran it will over 2k watts for a hour and got no heat from wires. Bigger wires = less Resistance and less amps so less heat.
I use a 3000w 12v Reliable Inverter with 0000 cables. I always oversize my cables so to protect all my equipment. I had a lot of people argue with me about going overboard, but this is a great example of what could happen to your inverter if you don’t. It may or may not have happened with this inverter. The electricity that flows through your oversized cables will not get “bottled necked”. You should see a decline in the heat that your cables generate as well. Heat is the number one thing that destroys electronics next to water.
@@jehugarcia Thanks for your videos. I really appreciate them. I’ve ran my 3000w inverter to the max to test it. But never ran it more than 2 min. I’m too paranoid to run it any longer and I don’t have a YT channel that pays me to. LOL!
@@jehugarcia No fan was likely the death blow. However, skinny cables have more voltage drop (that power loss is what causes the cables to heat up). Lower voltage means the inverter will draw more current. More current is more load on the FETs in the inverter, making more heat. More current is more voltage drop. It all contributes.
The plugs on the inverter are not rated for the full load you should try wiring a real 20-30 amp receptacle to the inverter then it should handle the load.
I do have almost the same cheap inverter, 12V to 230V (Germany),3000/6000W and i only used it for mig-welding up to now. I can weld around 1mm sheet metal with maximum output, not much more. Got a few hours out of it only, no smoke so far. Fan comes on under load, of course. I bet, the fan was your problem. And yes, the more voltage sag in cable or battery, the more amps draw to get the load delivered. So, less sagging is less amperage draw for the same amount of output.
@@Lumbeelegend With the 3000W Inverter i use a cheap chinese igbt inverter welder which is said to be rated up to 200 amps max, but with this 3000W- inverter i can only crank the welder up to barely 90 amps (instrument reading), which is 10 to 20 amps less than with a 2500W gasoline generator. So, i'm not really pleased. My plan is to upgrade to parallel 48V inverters, but that's töo expensive now. Cannot recommend a 12V system for welding purposes though.
@@werner.x I was worried about getting a welder with my system. I have a MPP Solar lv5048 and 6x 14s lithium car batteries (58.8v max). I never looked into it because I do a lot of woodworking nowadays and the system runs my saws and planer fine. Thank you.
@@werner.x that igbt is only $100??? Holy... Does it do its job pretty decently? I need a light duty welder because my kids go-kart frame had an old weld break.
When running 2 sets of leads to the inverter, there is less voltage drop across the wires which leads to less amps to maintain the same power. Also, removing notches (and holes) from the board layout will help with the heating in the bus portion of the PCB.
The amount of voltage drop there is what.....not even half a volt? Edit Nevermind those are some thin cables for a 3000W inverter he's trying to max out. Shouldn't he be running 4/0? Pretty much count on 300A
My old Chinesium inverter would supply 1000w/2000w surge but that 2000w was for one loop (half a cycle!) of mains. Remember that Chinesium ratings are to the death, Western ratings are to long safe running.
That is the reason why I decided to get rid of my Chinese inverter that gave me many problems and got a Schneider Electric 865-6848 and been a happy guy since then. I buy Chinese things all of the time but not the critical stuff.
So these are power cells with low energy density? More something for a powerful radio controlled or rally cross car rather than a hyper miling solar powered tricycle?
Be aware there are copper clad wires that can't handle higher currents. Ensure using 100% pure copper wires for higher current draws. That's why I personally don't like 12V inverter systems. The current draws are a bit on the dangerous side
The current draws are fine as long as you use the correct guage of oxygen free copper wire. 6 guage wire isn't even close to good enough for this kind of test, and two 6 guage wires does not equal the zero guage wire that was needed, both on the battery side and the inverter side. Any 12 volt inverter rated for 3000 watts should had come with zero guage pure copper leads, and if it didn't, Jehu has been doing this long enough to know that he should had changed them to the properly sized and proper material wire. Also, the PCBs he used as connections for the battery cells themselves are not good enough for even 200 amps of current. He said himself in his last video that these PCBs are only good for 90 amps each and he had them doubled up on the cells, so 180 amps maximum total. He should had gotten longer bolts and ran trippled or quadruple PCBs if he wants to run 300-400 amp tests for these cells. He has 8 cells in parallel, so the batteries can handle the output. It's only because his connections are inadequate that this failed. He thinks for some reason that resistance doesn't matter as much as it does, because he's used to playing around with 50 or 60 amps maximum at a time from most of his batteries. Resistance equals heat and the cells will sag hard when all the conductors are undersized and the PCBs aren't thick enough to handle the output. These cells should be linked together with 400 amp capable copper bus bars or minimum 10mm thick copper plates, or the equivalent In aluminum, which is 40% thicker than what the copper should be for bus bars or plates, specifically6t made to carry the 1000 amps that this battery pack is able to output, since it has 8 of these Headway HP cells in parallel. Each cell can do just about 150-200 amps. These two PCBs and two 6 guage wires are only good for about 180 amps
First off awesome video!! too bad you didnt have the normal camera rolling! But please read the ampacity chart for cables because you were pushing 200A through 6AWG wire that is only rated for 75A max, putting both wires in parallel only got you to 150A if the cables were identical. You need at least two 0AWG in parallel if you want 300A from the battery. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge#Tables_of_AWG_wire_sizes
not for a 10 minute test where I need to burn as much energy as possible to try and melt the PCB im testing, why are all you guys focusing on the wrong thing and missing the point of this test?
@@jehugarcia you are right that anything after the battery board is completely irrelevant. But any random person that watches the video might get the wrong idea that if Jehu can push 200A through 6AWG then so can they. You have to make it look more realistic, and also you wont be able to truly test if the wires are heating up the terminals and the board.
There is a voltage drop of ~ 4.6 volts from a fully charged lifepo4 12v battery to a fully discharged battery. 3.65->2.5 volts per cell in 4S configuration. This can be problematic for some inverters that prefer to operate around specific voltages because current to the load will increase to make up for the voltage loss.
FYI, copper jumper cables are inexpensive ways to get heavy wire. 300 amps or so is not going to work well with skinny wire. More copper in the plates you have way too many skinny resistive paths. 290 watts into even one hundreth of an ohm is 840 watts, an electric frying pan on medium high heat. Wirebarn calculator says for 290 amps with six feet of wire you need 2/0 gauge. Two 6 gauge wires are equivalent to 3 gauge. Unfortunately soldering crimps will make them more robust, but will not contribute much in the way of reducing resistance. Solder is not as conductive as copper. Longer, more compressed, radial crimps can help more.
You guys disappoint me sometimes. All you “you need bigger wires” guys are completely missing the object of this test…. My load is one whole high resistance wire, why would I want bigger wires which will decrease my load of the battery? Are you guys not paying attention to that what I’m testing here?
I'm sure you have been asked this question a million times so I'm a full-timer in an RV I am trying to get about 600AH total. Fixed budget and trying to find the most cost-effective way of accomplishing it. Any help would be extremely appreciated. Thanks Jehu
HAH scary. I live totally off grid with just a few panels and a 24volt inverter running everything off a couple of 105AH lead acid batteries. I've been watching your channel to try and learn more and maybe switch to lithium one day, but I guess I'm better off with lead acid and NOT blowing up my precious inverter, lol.
He's just having a crappy inverter though. Maybe your inverter can handle much better than that. I'm starting to migrate to LFP since the price is pretty competitive with Lead Acid batteries nowadays.
Actually, not scary. The batteries performed very well (may need to get rid of holes and cutouts), the inverter was new. Electronics usually fail within the first month - if they fail. If Jehu bought the inverter from a "reputable" dealer then he can get an exchange. Sounds like your inverter will last forever - with any battery. I have a Prosine 2 inverter running on Lithium batteries, that used to run on lead-acid. I think the title is misleading you a tiny bit - the battery is not "killing" the inverter, it is just a cheap inverter that failed.
@@Mripoststupidstuff Agree with what Michael just pointed out. Besides, it is really fortunate that LFP is a great replacement for Lead Acid due to its similar operating voltage. I would recommend Will Prowe's videos. He's sharing his solar power projects and reviewing LFP batteries a lot.
You just caught him on a bad day. Lithium technology has proven itself time again to be the best available option for power storage. Also safety has significantly improved.
Get a Genetry Solar inverter they are low freq pure sine wi fi you can set every thing the 6k is 1000 bucks they are better than aims or any other and cost much less
I want to build a dual battery setup for my suburban. I’m talking about yanking out the lead battery and alternator and have one for the engine and electrical system and then have a battery just for a air compressor, winch and house battery setup. What’s the best battery setup for that? I really like these battery cells because it’s so simple to build and repair myself if something goes wrong.
Edit: I do NOT recommend this product, I've seen several failures where the board melts or the board welds itself to cells because it's melting solder points. This thing is dangerous in any audio setup over 150-200 amps. I tried to explain to the guy the weak points to make this a good product but it seems he ignored any suggestions and pushed the product knowing it can't even handle 300 amps, then marketed it as a 500 amp board. It's a shame honestly. yeah you're going to want to use 0 gauge if not 2-3 runs of 0 gauge to do a full pull on these. i'd love to see the thermals on the boards doing a 400+ amp draw. i think you'll run into issues with heat in the board at that range, but also those little terminal blocks. which could be avoided by just using a longer m6 screw and putting your lugs right on top of the board itself. good tests though.
Fred always tells the truth, and can easily find the bad connections, who ever thought to put Fred in the camera was a genius, maybe it's the camera in Fred, that can't be right! 😆, It's flir camera
I think the battery and the pcb bus bar is going to handle 500A for 5minutes just fine, it’ll get hot after that, might need to do 2oz copper for loads above 300A
@@jehugarcia well I hope it's will be fine it's probably won't get hot anyways I'm kinda learning about ebikes batteries and other thank for you teaching us
@@jehugarcia I am new to not only DIY car audio lithium battery but also to these PCB boards is there anyway you could send me some picture examples or any steps on how to do this considering I am new I'm running 4 power 4 ground zero gauge write to each battery 1000a pcb board which is 64 amp hours each. At your earliest convenience would be great I'm getting ready for a Show competition with my team I top balanced everything I just need to start putting it together. Thank you @jehuGarcia I hope you have a good weekend
Someone please tell me the best way or device to use to measure the ohms resistance of used headway cells I bought 50 4 years ago. I have only been able to find 4 with the nice bestech bms to balance and stay healthy. I have 46 more that I need to test and try to match the similar resistances together.
Hi, when you got the two different current readings going from single to double wires, this could be due to the change in current waveform. Your current clamp assumes pure DC current, the current drawn by the inverter probably isn't pure DC. There could be ripple on the current, changing you current clamp to AC would show you the ripple component. It would only be an indication, unless your AC current is True RMS measurement clamp. With a lower voltage drop to the inverter and higher load the inverter would perform differently. The heater you used has an electronic current control, so you do not know if the current has some serious phase angle. Putting a scope on a current shunt will show you what you are really measuring. A scope on the inverter output would also help to see the "sinewave" shape. I hoped you would have put the thermal camera on the Chinesium product. Interesting experiment, I await the higher loads on the battery pack, the end plates seem to be holding up really well.
It didn't have anything to do with waveforms. He was measuring DC output, therefore no wave. It was because the wire he had on the battery pack was extremely undersized for the amprage we was putting through the wires. One 6 guage wire is NOT sufficient for 200 amps and two six guage wires is Not sufficient for 300 amps. #1- that PCB does not have enough copper to do more than 90 amps, he was supposed to have the PCBs doubled up. He said so himself in his last video, and that was supposed to be good for 180 amps, not 300. He is constantly trying to push way more amprage through the wires, connections, and PCBs than he's supposed to, then he has a ton of resistance and high temperatures and voltage sag across the battery packs, and then he blames the batteries and equipment for not being good enough, when it was his connections that weren't up to spec to begin with. I've done a lot of electrical work, as both an electrician, and as an installer of very powerful car audio systems, and I promise you that you need 0 guage wire to move 200-250 amps around and 00 guage wire, or two runs of 0 guage wire to move 350 amps. Two runs of 6 guage does not equal 0 guage wire, it equals 4 guage, which is only good to 150 amps. You would need four 6 guage wires together to equal 2 guage, which would had barely been enough to move the 250 amps he was trying to move in the video. I've been doing high power car audio for 15 years and I know what it takes to move these electrons around with minimal resistance, and Jehu should have the wire guage needed per amps moved chart memorized by now, but he constantly pushes his connections and wire guage way past their limits and he wonders why these batteries never perform like they are supposed to.
Hi, guys. I am not disputing the cable choice, I agree that the IR shows the need for bigger gauged wires. A voltmeter at the batteries and another at the inverter input terminals would have indicated the fact. The attitude I got from when the video started was the, lets test something to destruction, but hang doing any observations to locate any system weaknesses that caused the destruction. The reason for the lower current draw when the cable was doubled was due to the increase in potential at the inverter terminals, same load higher input voltage = lower input current. What I am pointing out is that the load current, into the inverter is probably not pure DC. An inverter is a current "chopping" device and no investigation has gone into if the inverter's input filtering is adequate to filter this characteristic. The load on the output of the inverter may not be purely resistive, the fact that a coupe of simple knobs changes the load level indicates an electronic controller, it is not a purely resistive load and may have a power factor not agreeable with the Chinesium product. I am not defending the battery pack or the inverter, but a bit more than just connecting some basic test gear and trying to do an equipment test needs more thinking.
You have to look at the instructions for your inverter but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to pull that much power from the outlets on it you have to hook up to those little wires and run it to a panel or make your own outlets but that's where The inverter is made to have it's full power
Dude, I think the wires you're using is too small for the current draw. Use a 1 or 0 gauge for 100A draw. 16-gauge wire 13 amps 14-gauge wire 15 amps 12-gauge wire 20 amps 10-gauge wire 30 amps 8-gauge wire 40 amps 6-gauge wire 55 amps 4-gauge wire 70 amps 3-gauge wire 85 amps 2-gauge wire 95 amps
I don't understand the point of this video. JEHU KNOWS you have to use the hookups for anything over 15 amps and not only did he purposely do this test wrong. But he did it with bad wires, arguably a battery pack that shouldn't be pulling that kind of power. This video is all over the place.....
My 700w Walmart Inverter made the cables hot and I was using 8 gauge copper wire, and that was at a VERY short distance. You know... 0 AWG is what you should be using. I mean even in the Car audio world, we don't even bother with anything less then 1/0 AWG. There just is to much voltage drop and loss at high current pulls from our bass amplifiers. And that's not continuous.
I have near the exact same inverter that says 6000 watts but is only half the height as that one, made out of chinesium. I plugged in a 1500-watt heater and in three minutes or less there was smoke coming out of it. I pulled the battery connection as fast as I could. I let it cool down and plugged the battery back in and it snapped and blew the BMS. I opened up the inverter and the transformer had melted the plastic around the coils. The transformer was probably shorted as well. There are 4 40 amp fuses soldered to the PCB as well and the fuses did not blow. The fuses are not replaceable, so I don't know what they are for anyway. Don't buy cheap Chinese inverters.
I believe he said the copper was 1 ounce in thickness - so thinner than those figures, *I think.* The thicknesses you mentioned were 2 and 4 ounce copper, respectively - again, *I think.*
I think these tests are a needed thing, and I love how you run a thermal check on them to see whats heating up if anything. After seeing that inverter fail you I will not be trusting my own cheap inverter without some serious safeguards in place. Great video Jehu.
You have been making videos about electric vehicles for eight years Very inspiring videos 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
What a great battery pack! I need to get one of these!!! Thank you for the video, and building this great community!!!
I've also had to return that inverter. I've been enjoying the omsnipower (or something like that. The black and white ones) anyway by design I matched a couple of those with bms's that could only do 120 amps so the inverters only work at 3/4 their potential. They've lasted a couple years with daily usage. So far so good. I have a lot of those headway cells. I would LOVE TO SEE MORE CONTENT ON THEM. They're a big deal in the car audio world, might also help get some more subscribers bro! Take care, stoked for the part 2 of the headway/circ board saga
Love it man them headway cells never disappoint
I got the superbeast turned into 12v at 96ah with 48 of these cells and a 2000watt inverter and ive ran 1600 watts with no issues at all so far, i got 4g wire about 1ft long with 160amp fuse on the positive. Mainly wanted it for running fans and charging my power chair when camping
As usual, you're having toooo much fun! Plus a little excitement!
Here from Chicago
This was awesome!! That’s a lot of amps!!
Just maybe should install a cut off for next time! LOL!!
"I cannot afford to buy 'cheap'...!" - MacFrugal
Those Anderson connectors look great
It's not advisable to solder battery terminals. The solder may not be able to hold the current coming out of the batteries. It introduces additional resistance which generates heat.
Great video Jehu! Don’t forget to check the bottom pcb for heat as well.
You really should use much larger gauge wire for these connections...at least 0 gauge...possibly 00.
Hell...I use two 4 gauge cables for my 1500 watt inverter...and they still get a bit warm.
😬. Did you leave the hair dryer pointed at your cables? 😉
@@jamess1787
What hair dryer?
I use 2AWG wires and they still heat at 1500W, 132A draw.
i only use 10awg and i never notice much heat. different application (vehicle)
My "AIMS 2500" has 0000 cables and it runs an air conditioner and a coffee maker. Air conditioner 2 hours on 2 AGM 100ah. I can't wait to build my Headway Bank and try it out this summer. Maybe with solar and 38120hp it will run till dark.
The smoking could have been an overloaded plug that was only meant to handle a maximum of between 1500 and 1800 watts.
When you get over something like 15 amps, should have bare copper on crimps(sp?) Thanks for vid, burn up inverters so we don't have to!
Just fyi, solder is about 15% of the conductivity of copper. Solder in a high current application is not a good idea. Even a small amount of soft solder in a crimp connection would allow movement from mechanical or thermal conditions and cause higher resistance, and therefore more heat, higher resistance, runaway increase in temperature until the joint melts or flames. A properly done crimp connection is FAR better in high current applications.
It's not the battery that kills. It's him. Just as guns don't kill people, rappers do.
Great Video 👍👍👍
Great Channel 👍👍👍
👋👋👋👋👋👋
Did the caps melt inside the Chinaverter?
7:55 Thats because there was voltage drop in the wires, around 1v difference I guess, if you have less voltage to pull the same amount of energy (W) you will have more amperage.
Finaly someone that understand this kind of stuff.
Can you post a link of the thermal camera you are using?
I am sold, I want some of those batteries. Which I could see the difference in performance in a 48v system. I honestly believe it is a reasonable inverter just the fan didn't work but it ran 3000w before. He just got a bad one. Big blow to the manufacturer of the inverter though after seeing this you know people going to avoid it.
I ordered 2
More of the same, so it’ll have a chance to redeem itself
When those first became easily available all sorts of channels were using just four of them to start cars.
@@jehugarcia Get some plates with a lot more copper, and get some 2/0 wire or equivalent.
I think a lot of the cheap inverters label them with the max surge numbers.
Jehu's channel is turning into a 'what cheap electronics accessories NOT to buy". :) lots of good reviews about cheap "reliable electric" inverters being aim clones. Hope you can put those to the test with batteries to see what happens.
now to be fair.... the inverter did 300A @12 = 3600w for a few minutes before if started melting.
@@jehugarcia your service to the industry is much appreciated and saving us plebs tons of wasted time and $.
You should measure the input DC voltage at the inverter's input terminals. You are getting significantly less than 12V at the inverter's inputs, and that is what caused the inverter to fail. The inverter is drawing more current from the battery to compensate for the reduced voltage at its input terminals. A lower input voltage makes the inverter's efficiency go down, requiring even more input current to maintain the 2200W AC power at its output. I'm surprised the inverter doesn't have a low input voltage safety shutoff, but you get what you pay for (sometimes).
That inverter let out the factory smoke. I've seen it happen before, with a big Trace SW, that was stuffed with big long rows of Chinesium FET's.
Huge battery love how its made seem very durable!
How can I get one and how much will it cost?
Can you help me DIY one ?
All the links in the description
8:00 No, its because your dc voltage is high so it draws less amps. As voltage drops it will pull more amps.
I love it ..you are awesome things happen... always to me to lol
1/0 copper cable is what I use for my 2400w inverter connected to 300 amp hours of battery. I ran it will over 2k watts for a hour and got no heat from wires. Bigger wires = less Resistance and less amps so less heat.
Same amount of amps but on larger wire so less amps per volume of wire. Bet you meant that.
@@Teknopottu ya
So true 👍
You should be feeling the wires and plants with the back of your hands so, you always have the mobility to pull away your hands if they are too hot.
Very nice battery 👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸😎
I use a 3000w 12v Reliable Inverter with 0000 cables. I always oversize my cables so to protect all my equipment. I had a lot of people argue with me about going overboard, but this is a great example of what could happen to your inverter if you don’t. It may or may not have happened with this inverter. The electricity that flows through your oversized cables will not get “bottled necked”. You should see a decline in the heat that your cables generate as well. Heat is the number one thing that destroys electronics next to water.
Yeah but the No fan killed this inverter, it was a defective inverter no matter you slice it, fat cables would not have saved it.
@@jehugarcia Thanks for your videos. I really appreciate them. I’ve ran my 3000w inverter to the max to test it. But never ran it more than 2 min. I’m too paranoid to run it any longer and I don’t have a YT channel that pays me to. LOL!
@@jehugarcia No fan was likely the death blow. However, skinny cables have more voltage drop (that power loss is what causes the cables to heat up). Lower voltage means the inverter will draw more current. More current is more load on the FETs in the inverter, making more heat. More current is more voltage drop. It all contributes.
What make and model is your IR temp camera??? 😍
At 8:32 291 amps x 12.4 (i assume) = 3608 watts. So a little overload, but it should turn off overheated not burn lol. Keep up the good work. Cheers.
You are correct. inverter had couple of issues, current censor was reading wrong amperage and the fan did not operate, so it started melting
The plugs on the inverter are not rated for the full load you should try wiring a real 20-30 amp receptacle to the inverter then it should handle the load.
Hi, How about flipping the battery pack upside down and pointing your thermal camera at the bottom board?
Man these thermal videos are the best. You think I could get that inverter lol I will pay shipping eh? Maybe a little extra
What’s the price for the plates and what’s the dimensions? Thanks
Health and safety. Help!
I do have almost the same cheap inverter, 12V to 230V (Germany),3000/6000W and i only used it for mig-welding up to now. I can weld around 1mm sheet metal with maximum output, not much more. Got a few hours out of it only, no smoke so far. Fan comes on under load, of course.
I bet, the fan was your problem.
And yes, the more voltage sag in cable or battery, the more amps draw to get the load delivered. So, less sagging is less amperage draw for the same amount of output.
What size welder do you have? Just curious.
@@Lumbeelegend With the 3000W Inverter i use a cheap chinese igbt inverter welder which is said to be rated up to 200 amps max, but with this 3000W- inverter i can only crank the welder up to barely 90 amps (instrument reading), which is 10 to 20 amps less than with a 2500W gasoline generator. So, i'm not really pleased. My plan is to upgrade to parallel 48V inverters, but that's töo expensive now. Cannot recommend a 12V system for welding purposes though.
@@werner.x I was worried about getting a welder with my system. I have a MPP Solar lv5048 and 6x 14s lithium car batteries (58.8v max).
I never looked into it because I do a lot of woodworking nowadays and the system runs my saws and planer fine.
Thank you.
@@werner.x that igbt is only $100??? Holy...
Does it do its job pretty decently? I need a light duty welder because my kids go-kart frame had an old weld break.
@@Lumbeelegend For some unknown reason YT or somebody else keeps deleting all my answers.
When running 2 sets of leads to the inverter, there is less voltage drop across the wires which leads to less amps to maintain the same power. Also, removing notches (and holes) from the board layout will help with the heating in the bus portion of the PCB.
The amount of voltage drop there is what.....not even half a volt?
Edit Nevermind those are some thin cables for a 3000W inverter he's trying to max out. Shouldn't he be running 4/0? Pretty much count on 300A
When you get rid of the holes also get rid of the radius edges too.
My old Chinesium inverter would supply 1000w/2000w surge but that 2000w was for one loop (half a cycle!) of mains. Remember that Chinesium ratings are to the death, Western ratings are to long safe running.
That is the reason why I decided to get rid of my Chinese inverter that gave me many problems and got a Schneider Electric 865-6848 and been a happy guy since then. I buy Chinese things all of the time but not the critical stuff.
So these are power cells with low energy density? More something for a powerful radio controlled or rally cross car rather than a hyper miling solar powered tricycle?
That size cable might be too small for that amount of amerage current draw.
That’s awesome bro , so what wrong last time ? Gindale have the 12/3000 volt inverter I have a few of them !
Be aware there are copper clad wires that can't handle higher currents. Ensure using 100% pure copper wires for higher current draws. That's why I personally don't like 12V inverter systems. The current draws are a bit on the dangerous side
The current draws are fine as long as you use the correct guage of oxygen free copper wire. 6 guage wire isn't even close to good enough for this kind of test, and two 6 guage wires does not equal the zero guage wire that was needed, both on the battery side and the inverter side. Any 12 volt inverter rated for 3000 watts should had come with zero guage pure copper leads, and if it didn't, Jehu has been doing this long enough to know that he should had changed them to the properly sized and proper material wire. Also, the PCBs he used as connections for the battery cells themselves are not good enough for even 200 amps of current. He said himself in his last video that these PCBs are only good for 90 amps each and he had them doubled up on the cells, so 180 amps maximum total. He should had gotten longer bolts and ran trippled or quadruple PCBs if he wants to run 300-400 amp tests for these cells. He has 8 cells in parallel, so the batteries can handle the output. It's only because his connections are inadequate that this failed. He thinks for some reason that resistance doesn't matter as much as it does, because he's used to playing around with 50 or 60 amps maximum at a time from most of his batteries. Resistance equals heat and the cells will sag hard when all the conductors are undersized and the PCBs aren't thick enough to handle the output. These cells should be linked together with 400 amp capable copper bus bars or minimum 10mm thick copper plates, or the equivalent In aluminum, which is 40% thicker than what the copper should be for bus bars or plates, specifically6t made to carry the 1000 amps that this battery pack is able to output, since it has 8 of these Headway HP cells in parallel. Each cell can do just about 150-200 amps. These two PCBs and two 6 guage wires are only good for about 180 amps
Maybe an addition of a BMS would help the inverter.
That's about 2x what 6 awg copper can handle in free air
It's all relative. Can push 200A over 14AWG for short distances 🤷. 😉
Or, you know 100A over a small TO-220 mosfet 😁
@@jamess1787 maybe with 200 degree C rated insulation and connections
OK, 200A continuous, and the whole thing is cold. That is impressive!
First off awesome video!! too bad you didnt have the normal camera rolling! But please read the ampacity chart for cables because you were pushing 200A through 6AWG wire that is only rated for 75A max, putting both wires in parallel only got you to 150A if the cables were identical. You need at least two 0AWG in parallel if you want 300A from the battery. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge#Tables_of_AWG_wire_sizes
not for a 10 minute test where I need to burn as much energy as possible to try and melt the PCB im testing, why are all you guys focusing on the wrong thing and missing the point of this test?
@@jehugarcia you are right that anything after the battery board is completely irrelevant. But any random person that watches the video might get the wrong idea that if Jehu can push 200A through 6AWG then so can they. You have to make it look more realistic, and also you wont be able to truly test if the wires are heating up the terminals and the board.
There is a voltage drop of ~ 4.6 volts from a fully charged lifepo4 12v battery to a fully discharged battery. 3.65->2.5 volts per cell in 4S configuration. This can be problematic for some inverters that prefer to operate around specific voltages because current to the load will increase to make up for the voltage loss.
I thought about that too, but I didn't hear a low voltage alarm.
FYI, copper jumper cables are inexpensive ways to get heavy wire. 300 amps or so is not going to work well with skinny wire. More copper in the plates you have way too many skinny resistive paths. 290 watts into even one hundreth of an ohm is 840 watts, an electric frying pan on medium high heat. Wirebarn calculator says for 290 amps with six feet of wire you need 2/0 gauge. Two 6 gauge wires are equivalent to 3 gauge. Unfortunately soldering crimps will make them more robust, but will not contribute much in the way of reducing resistance. Solder is not as conductive as copper. Longer, more compressed, radial crimps can help more.
You guys disappoint me sometimes. All you “you need bigger wires” guys are completely missing the object of this test…. My load is one whole high resistance wire, why would I want bigger wires which will decrease my load of the battery? Are you guys not paying attention to that what I’m testing here?
Does it say 3000 watts RMS or is that peak?
I'm sure you have been asked this question a million times so I'm a full-timer in an RV I am trying to get about 600AH total. Fixed budget and trying to find the most cost-effective way of accomplishing it. Any help would be extremely appreciated. Thanks Jehu
This is not it I can tell you that much, LifepO4 prismáticas is the way to go in your case
HAH scary. I live totally off grid with just a few panels and a 24volt inverter running everything off a couple of 105AH lead acid batteries. I've been watching your channel to try and learn more and maybe switch to lithium one day, but I guess I'm better off with lead acid and NOT blowing up my precious inverter, lol.
He's just having a crappy inverter though. Maybe your inverter can handle much better than that. I'm starting to migrate to LFP since the price is pretty competitive with Lead Acid batteries nowadays.
Actually, not scary. The batteries performed very well (may need to get rid of holes and cutouts), the inverter was new. Electronics usually fail within the first month - if they fail. If Jehu bought the inverter from a "reputable" dealer then he can get an exchange. Sounds like your inverter will last forever - with any battery. I have a Prosine 2 inverter running on Lithium batteries, that used to run on lead-acid. I think the title is misleading you a tiny bit - the battery is not "killing" the inverter, it is just a cheap inverter that failed.
@@gamtax Yeah, I don't know where to get them from where I live. have to do some more research I guess. Be nice, just for the space savings,.
@@Mripoststupidstuff Agree with what Michael just pointed out. Besides, it is really fortunate that LFP is a great replacement for Lead Acid due to its similar operating voltage. I would recommend Will Prowe's videos. He's sharing his solar power projects and reviewing LFP batteries a lot.
You just caught him on a bad day. Lithium technology has proven itself time again to be the best available option for power storage. Also safety has significantly improved.
Thanks for sharing
Given the angle, at first I thought the inverter said "FIREPOW" on the top. But perhaps they should change it to FIREPOW...
I need the 6 s plug for that monitor,any ideas?
Get a Genetry Solar inverter they are low freq pure sine wi fi you can set every thing the 6k is 1000 bucks they are better than aims or any other and cost much less
Hey you might be having a problem with the triac (dimmer) in your load that is freaking out the inverter. Remember that is it pulsing the current.
Chu try a edecoa the green one im shure it will hold.
Please PLEASE do some reviews on ebike battery and budget ebikes
Less amps because battery at higher voltage, if you try the same load with 48v system the amps would be far less
I want to build a dual battery setup for my suburban. I’m talking about yanking out the lead battery and alternator and have one for the engine and electrical system and then have a battery just for a air compressor, winch and house battery setup. What’s the best battery setup for that? I really like these battery cells because it’s so simple to build and repair myself if something goes wrong.
as electrician i would jack open the plating of that inverter to see what part or component went up in smoke to see where the cheaping out happend
This is a pcb busbar test, I really don’t care about the inverter
Edit: I do NOT recommend this product, I've seen several failures where the board melts or the board welds itself to cells because it's melting solder points. This thing is dangerous in any audio setup over 150-200 amps. I tried to explain to the guy the weak points to make this a good product but it seems he ignored any suggestions and pushed the product knowing it can't even handle 300 amps, then marketed it as a 500 amp board. It's a shame honestly.
yeah you're going to want to use 0 gauge if not 2-3 runs of 0 gauge to do a full pull on these. i'd love to see the thermals on the boards doing a 400+ amp draw.
i think you'll run into issues with heat in the board at that range, but also those little terminal blocks. which could be avoided by just using a longer m6 screw and putting your lugs right on top of the board itself.
good tests though.
We shall see, next test is 500A
@@jehugarcia i can't wait, hopefully you more equipment doesn't die. no more cheap inverters! lol
Bruh use like 3 runs of 1/0 copper. 500 amps is like 5-6k watts for car audio amps interested in seeing the results.
Maybe add more holes to let the heat dissipate equally across the board.
That invertor looks like coming from 80's when, the wattage was PPO.... remember that?
What power inverter do you recommend getting? I've seen a lot of them on Amazon
Fred always tells the truth, and can easily find the bad connections, who ever thought to put Fred in the camera was a genius, maybe it's the camera in Fred, that can't be right! 😆, It's flir camera
I appreciate the video but the title is clickbait. The battery didn’t kill anything :/.
Battery looks good not even getting hot and wires not get on fire but it's Post to feel little warm
I think the battery and the pcb bus bar is going to handle 500A for 5minutes just fine, it’ll get hot after that, might need to do 2oz copper for loads above 300A
@@jehugarcia well I hope it's will be fine it's probably won't get hot anyways I'm kinda learning about ebikes batteries and other thank for you teaching us
Can I use direct ring terminal lugs on a1000a pcb board 64AH 38120 headway lithium bank instead of the 6 pin soldered board terminals
Yes
@@jehugarcia I am new to not only DIY car audio lithium battery but also to these PCB boards is there anyway you could send me some picture examples or any steps on how to do this considering I am new I'm running 4 power 4 ground zero gauge write to each battery 1000a pcb board which is 64 amp hours each. At your earliest convenience would be great I'm getting ready for a Show competition with my team I top balanced everything I just need to start putting it together. Thank you @jehuGarcia I hope you have a good weekend
Can this be connected in parrell with AGM for ford 6.0 diesel
Is the thermal cam the one for Apple?
Yes for iPhone
Thanks I’ll order one.
Anyone know where you can get dead inverters ? Id like to buy 2 cases like the one in this video..
Check a local scrap recycler.
Smoke em if you got em 🔥🔥 lol
Very hard to find a 120vac load that is over 20A. Cheers
How many aH is that battery? I need about 4 or 5 for my 15K amp; car audio.
64ah
I wouldnt be surprised to learn that they fudge the capabilities of the inverter like they do those 9000 mah cells.
Someone please tell me the best way or device to use to measure the ohms resistance of used headway cells I bought 50 4 years ago. I have only been able to find 4 with the nice bestech bms to balance and stay healthy. I have 46 more that I need to test and try to match the similar resistances together.
Sadly once you let the smoke out, even the factory can't put the smoke back in.
I think this is fixable, mosfets survived, I think the inductors or other cables started melting but it still works
Hi, when you got the two different current readings going from single to double wires, this could be due to the change in current waveform.
Your current clamp assumes pure DC current, the current drawn by the inverter probably isn't pure DC.
There could be ripple on the current, changing you current clamp to AC would show you the ripple component.
It would only be an indication, unless your AC current is True RMS measurement clamp.
With a lower voltage drop to the inverter and higher load the inverter would perform differently.
The heater you used has an electronic current control, so you do not know if the current has some serious phase angle.
Putting a scope on a current shunt will show you what you are really measuring.
A scope on the inverter output would also help to see the "sinewave" shape.
I hoped you would have put the thermal camera on the Chinesium product.
Interesting experiment, I await the higher loads on the battery pack, the end plates seem to be holding up really well.
It didn't have anything to do with waveforms. He was measuring DC output, therefore no wave. It was because the wire he had on the battery pack was extremely undersized for the amprage we was putting through the wires. One 6 guage wire is NOT sufficient for 200 amps and two six guage wires is Not sufficient for 300 amps. #1- that PCB does not have enough copper to do more than 90 amps, he was supposed to have the PCBs doubled up. He said so himself in his last video, and that was supposed to be good for 180 amps, not 300. He is constantly trying to push way more amprage through the wires, connections, and PCBs than he's supposed to, then he has a ton of resistance and high temperatures and voltage sag across the battery packs, and then he blames the batteries and equipment for not being good enough, when it was his connections that weren't up to spec to begin with. I've done a lot of electrical work, as both an electrician, and as an installer of very powerful car audio systems, and I promise you that you need 0 guage wire to move 200-250 amps around and 00 guage wire, or two runs of 0 guage wire to move 350 amps. Two runs of 6 guage does not equal 0 guage wire, it equals 4 guage, which is only good to 150 amps. You would need four 6 guage wires together to equal 2 guage, which would had barely been enough to move the 250 amps he was trying to move in the video. I've been doing high power car audio for 15 years and I know what it takes to move these electrons around with minimal resistance, and Jehu should have the wire guage needed per amps moved chart memorized by now, but he constantly pushes his connections and wire guage way past their limits and he wonders why these batteries never perform like they are supposed to.
Hi, guys. I am not disputing the cable choice, I agree that the IR shows the need for bigger gauged wires.
A voltmeter at the batteries and another at the inverter input terminals would have indicated the fact.
The attitude I got from when the video started was the, lets test something to destruction, but hang doing any observations to locate any system weaknesses that caused the destruction.
The reason for the lower current draw when the cable was doubled was due to the increase in potential at the inverter terminals, same load higher input voltage = lower input current.
What I am pointing out is that the load current, into the inverter is probably not pure DC.
An inverter is a current "chopping" device and no investigation has gone into if the inverter's input filtering is adequate to filter this characteristic.
The load on the output of the inverter may not be purely resistive, the fact that a coupe of simple knobs changes the load level indicates an electronic controller, it is not a purely resistive load and may have a power factor not agreeable with the Chinesium product.
I am not defending the battery pack or the inverter, but a bit more than just connecting some basic test gear and trying to do an equipment test needs more thinking.
Get a 3kw sigineer inverter and 1/0 cables and run the test again
Inverter over 15 amps not a good idea unless you jump it to a 30 Amp. Or you blow up the inverter or fuse etc
Isn't the battery pack supposed to be capable of 1600 amps?
Yes but I’m testing the pcb bus bars not the cells or the inverter or the cables
@@jehugarcia I enjoy watching the test. Looking forward to see how far you go. 🤣
You have to look at the instructions for your inverter but I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to pull that much power from the outlets on it you have to hook up to those little wires and run it to a panel or make your own outlets but that's where The inverter is made to have it's full power
Dude, I think the wires you're using is too small for the current draw. Use a 1 or 0 gauge for 100A draw.
16-gauge wire 13 amps
14-gauge wire 15 amps
12-gauge wire 20 amps
10-gauge wire 30 amps
8-gauge wire 40 amps
6-gauge wire 55 amps
4-gauge wire 70 amps
3-gauge wire 85 amps
2-gauge wire 95 amps
the chinese can give you a sticker to make it a 20kw inverter.. as its how its done there.
I wouldn't mind working on the inverter if you are not going to send it back
I don't understand the point of this video. JEHU KNOWS you have to use the hookups for anything over 15 amps and not only did he purposely do this test wrong. But he did it with bad wires, arguably a battery pack that shouldn't be pulling that kind of power. This video is all over the place.....
Hookups = not plugging into the power outlets
My 700w Walmart Inverter made the cables hot and I was using 8 gauge copper wire, and that was at a VERY short distance. You know... 0 AWG is what you should be using.
I mean even in the Car audio world, we don't even bother with anything less then 1/0 AWG. There just is to much voltage drop and loss at high current pulls from our bass amplifiers. And that's not continuous.
Ok I’m going to stop reading comments on this video, all you pedantic folks are missing the whole point of this test
@@jehugarcia Okay.
I have near the exact same inverter that says 6000 watts but is only half the height as that one, made out of chinesium. I plugged in a 1500-watt heater and in three minutes or less there was smoke coming out of it. I pulled the battery connection as fast as I could. I let it cool down and plugged the battery back in and it snapped and blew the BMS.
I opened up the inverter and the transformer had melted the plastic around the coils. The transformer was probably shorted as well. There are 4 40 amp fuses soldered to the PCB as well and the fuses did not blow. The fuses are not replaceable, so I don't know what they are for anyway. Don't buy cheap Chinese inverters.
Did you use pcb with a copper thickness of 35um or 70um?
I believe he said the copper was 1 ounce in thickness - so thinner than those figures, *I think.*
The thicknesses you mentioned were 2 and 4 ounce copper, respectively - again, *I think.*
@@dennisyoung4631 I've just watched the other video, there he mentioned that the pcb's are 1oz or 35um per side. Pretty nice results at those amps.
Yes 👍 🔋⚡💡
He *tries the Battery.*
It *EATS* the (smelly) inverter.
A cheap way to test it is to put a big piece of metal in some water and dead short the battery with the metal while an amp clamp is connected.
That sounds like a YOLO test for batteries... 😂
@@gamtax it’s fairly common when testing high discharge cells like these.
Yeah but you have no control of that load and that’s scary on a pack that can literally put out over 2000A on a dead short
@@jehugarcia aren’t you looking to find the max?