Super Beast Battery Transformation! @JAG35, Headway Lithium and Battery Hookup
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2023
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In this video we use a JAG35 bus bar to make an awesome car audio battery using by harvesting headway lithium cells from a battery hookup super beast. Is this the best car audio lithium battery? Let's find out if this battery transformation is the best way to run lithium in your car.
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0:00 Introduction
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I think it was about 5 years ago I first heard of these new cells but way before I saw any used ones for sale that I bought the 10ah ones and over a month I had 20 so made me a 4s,5p battery out of them , was going to install in my van but at that time I didn't know how to control the charging current . I put these cells in a plastic amo can with all the extras I needed for ham radio , I used my 30amp switching power supply through a 60 amp dc/dc boost converter and set voltage to 14v at 5amps which was all I needed but I most certainly used a good quality smart bms to keep it balanced and protected from over hear, over voltage, under voltage and freezing weather , it was really expensive at the time as most of those cells cost me $25 bucks each but were new . The bms is Bluetooth so I can see what's going on at any time and feel much safer like this . This battery wound up costing me around $700 and well worth it .
I had to find your latest video so you would hopefully read my comment.
One of your video's popped up in my feed that was on on enclosure volume comparisons.
I found it very interesting and you had a link to another video... so I watched that one, too. Then another...and another.. etc.
The point is your method of presenting this specific content is not only informative, It is also very engaging !
I found much of the info. you discuss to be of value to me in several areas i have involvement in. I am now going through your video library and very much enjoying feeding my cranium with new and current knowledge food. Great video's, great presentation and I thank you. Liked and subscribed !!!
Use any bms you want but have it power cut with external contactors or there are some fairly high amp ones on battery hookup
I bought two from your last video of the super beast. But I ended up getting 192ah buss bars. And I have to say I’m glad your last video set me forward to order it.
Awesome
Just get an adjustable voltage PSU. The standard ones are 0-32v 5-10amp you can get them as low as 60 ish bucks
Great video Justin 😀
Thanks!
Did you consider connecting balancer wires between the battery and junction plate?
Dang, I i been busy this weekend and missed this video.
Too busy working to watch videos, I totally get that.
Insted of that balancer you should consider a bms (battery management system). I have a daily bms 250amps on mine works great but it only gets the battery 13.4, but it keeps it their.
And that’s your issue. Dalys balancing is nearly nonexistent so you’re getting high voltage cutoff on one cell while the others are probably low. And keep in mind high voltage cutoff is going to be 3.70 or 3.75 which is unnecessarily high. No reason to go over 3.55 or 3.60
U can charge that bank with a any regular car battery charger even one from harbor freight. 10amp mode works great might take all day but it works and the Charger only charges to 14.8v and then u get the green light just like a regular deep cycle or led acid battery. U don’t need a fancy smart charger or big power supply to charge them
This power supply should work fine. Something must be wrong with it.
@@DIYAudioGuyvery true, I was also wondering if the power supply u were using shuts off after the designated voltage is met? Just like the regular car battery chargers do. I’m liking the buss bars though, my last 3 headway banks I put together the buss bars were made from stop signs, same as any aluminum u would get from a metal supply yard just much cheaper and the work great, same thickness as the buss bars that come with the super beast and handle the amp draw just fine with it being aluminum versus copper
I would watch out when using a regular car charger since some have a descaling cycle. Stick with an Hp server power supply usually get 22 amps out of them when charging my lipo 6s packs for rc racing and then on 4s I get over 30amps that’s less than 30$ to order one of them power supplies 😊
@@onesikm3 I have RC cars as well, different from the headway lithium cells, a regular car battery charger charges headway lithium cells perfectly fine, the same exact as a car alternator would.. battery chargers are not magic. They all basically do the same thing
Built a couple for car audio, @ 3 mins you will not run into that problem if you separate the cells then remove Center plastic pieces...or at least that's what I did with little to no resistance disassembling
What's the biggest bank you can build but still using a regular balancer?
I have a powermax pm3 100a power supply on 2 superbeasts 192ah's in my basement set-up. Never had any issues charging them at the same time.
I'm beginning to think something's wrong with the power supply.
Might be. I've been charging with my powermax for well over 2 years now. Switched from a massive audio pb100 amp supply. Another great option if you can find one new these days. Good luck with your project 👊.
do a reveiw of the jag35 148ah 12 volt lithium bank it is capable of doing 1200 amps, would be much appreciated to see one put into action
I have 96ah headway lithium bank in my car. What ive noticed is these cells dont have a ton of "storage" for longevity but rather charge and discharge very quickly. I think thats why the battery charger isn't working well.
Hey can these PCB bus boards be used with the larger blue cells like the 10, 17 & 20 AH cells I'm not positive but I think they are the same size around just taller which should make it work right I'm trying to get the smaller boards and add bigger cells if possible I want the big power from a smaller bank than a 96ah
You mentioned top balancing each cell if voltage isn't 3.2. Mine read 3.6. how do top balance?
What size screws did you use?
I’m running 2 500a pcb stacked . It works with my smart 3 amp but I upgraded to smart5 and I’m wondering if the copper foil pcb bus bars will hold up , or should I use 1/8” aluminum plate ? Plus I have 3lugs so I’m bolted to the cell the corner.
Idk if I’m over thinking or what.
Just got my second supper beast in and went ahead and got the I'll customz 192 ah buss bars can't wait to build it with the wifey this weekend
Awesome!
Greetings! This video was incredibly helpful!!! I have A question! If I where to build the 80Ah, could I use the same balancer you have linked here? Also, do you think the battery size you built is capable of starting a car reliably?
The balancer is designed for a 4s application. Meaning if you have four cells in series it will balance them. This thing should have no trouble starting a car. But do not put this thing under the hood of a car. It is not designed for that use and you will burn your car down.
@@DIYAudioGuy THANK YOU SO MUCH for this answer!! I have been unsure of what the 3s-4s meant!! This is my first rodeo, and i have a beast module on the way! My alternator is a brand new 100A Denso. Do you have any recommendation about building The battery you built here, VS the 80AH? The portion of video where you said it was initially struggling with the 100a charger, which is equivalent to my 100a alternator, I have wondered if I should build the smaller battery or larger battery. Again, I cant thank you enough for this information you have provided. Your page has me wanting to link my credit card to RUclips LOL!
Hey my guy. I actually bought JAG35 48Ah PCB boards.
I've got the same exact power max 100 looking to upgrade to push more audio equipment in my theater/gaming room. Does anybody have suggestions on what would give me more power thanks
Get the 120a version from power max and run them in parallel. Thats 240 amps. Plenty for almost any setup. Just make sure all the wiring used is identical in length.m and sized appropriately. That’s how I powered my audio system in my 2011 Honda cr-z hybrid prior to addition of a 320a alternator. Side note these power max converters also operate on 100+volts in case anyone was wondering.Since removal from my car i use them to charge my 80ah yinlong Lto and other batteries. One charger is all i use currently and the other is a backup . I top off my battery if I haven’t been driving the car much. Only takes about 14 minutes to go from 13.6 ish volts to 15.5 at a beginning amp draw of 92 amps
1set of batt bank can I put it on a external charger?
Get one that's made specifically for lithium. Both XSpower and down for sound sell them.
I wonder if something is wrong with your power supply? I’m using a PM4 to charge 160ah of yinlongs. I usually keep the at 14.8v, but I’ve charged them to 15.8v before. My pm4 has never gone into protect a single time.
I think you are right. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a different power supply, hopefully I'll be able to start testing some amplifiers again.
@@DIYAudioGuy I’m even running mine off of a 50’ extension cord
Can they run well on a 14.8 volt alternator or is the 14.8 to high for the batteries?
Dude you could just add resistance to the charging line to decrease the current. Use thinner gauge wire or add a resistor (granted you’d need a large one but a 12V automotive bulb could work but probably not for that much amperage)
Thin wire = fat fuse.
Justin, wheres the link for the bolts you had to purchase? Getting ready to do a 94ah and ill be in the same spot you were, needing 50% more bolts for my jag buss bars.
I dont recommend you use a powered tool to insert the screws into these headway cells. They are on the softer side of metal threads
I agree. Don't grab your big impact driver and give it 50 ugga-duggas. That will mess things up in a hurry. I was using a cheap 12v driver from harbor freight with the clutch set on the lowest setting.
@@DIYAudioGuy itll be alright. i had to tear down my dead bank last night and a couple of the cells threads have loctite from factory or something similar. needless to say i spun the negatives on 2 of my cells, it take alot of torque at least 15-20 ft lbs or so to hurt them
Is lithium benificial for your car audio system if you have a HO alternator and only listen to your music when the car is running and voltage never drops below 14v. Im still deciding if i need shouikd get lithium
Probably not. But it is hard to say for sure.
Is it staying at 14v at the engine bay or at the amps? If it's at the amps, you are not pulling enough current to even outdrive your alternator.
If voltage remains high at the engine bay, but you're seeing it drop much lower during hits at the amps, your main power wiring is undersized. Address that, then revisit a li-ion battery setup.
theres a trick with a busbar to get the cells that are end to end apart
Bought the same charger........ And like many before me, I returned it. Can you deep cycle head way?
I bought a different power supply and it works just fine. You cannot deep cycle headway cells, they don't like being over or under charged. Best case you shorten the lifespan of the cells, worst case you start a fire.
yinlong cells put out more power get up to 45ah per cell xs power has them available does cost more than headway.
Here a question. Can you run headway cell on a lead acid battery with a isolator
The resting voltage on something like this is close to that of a lead acid.
You can run these with no isolator, if it's a daily driver. if it's in something that will sit for more than a couple days without running, then an isolator would be best. with that said, you DO need some form of balancer, of which the one in the links description does work for these, I have been using the same balancer for several years and it's best to do a top balance every so often and to check cells individually to make sure none have gone bad.
@Joe_1776 thank you I was always curious
so when I multiplied 8Ah x 24 cells it gives me a total of 192Ah. is this correct?
If you were to put 24 cells in series that's what you would get. For this setup there are eight cells in series. So it's 64 amp hours. If you convert a superbeast to 12 volts it'll be 96 amp hours. Because each series group has 12 cells.
I'm new to ALL this lithium batteries and whatnot. I'm wondering if sum1 can help me out. I need a good battery for my car and car audio. I wanna do a battery delete. I haven't decided on what amplifiers I'm gonna get. No more than 4000 watts total. 3000 watts RMS at 1 ohm and whatever for my door speakers. My question is, what size headway cell would I need to run 4000 watts max at 1 ohm and the whole car? Please help and please give me sum advice of what will work for me. Thanks for y'all's time and brain power...lol
On Hifi Vega's video he shows that a 16ah lithium bank I believe lifepo4, outperformed a 100ah AGM battery in some tests he put them through. So hopefully that helps a little bit. For 4k + the vehicle's needs, I would think 64ah should be plenty depending on your alt.
Thanks for the information. I have bought myself a Headway 24 cell 48ah lithium battery since I posted this post. Haven't gotten 0 gauge OFC wire yet. Gonna order that today.. hopefully...lol I also have just a factory alternator. I'm disabled so it takes me a min to buy everything I need to upgrade...lol Thanks again for ur info.
So what Im gathering is if you put this into a car, a smaller 95 amp alternator won’t be able to keep these charged?
I cannot say for sure, this power supply seems to be designed to shut off if the load needs more than 100a.
It depends how much you are drawing.
Yeah. Thanks for the video Justin. I always appreciate your work. this one gives me more questions than answers. But sometimes that’s good. I want to put a small lithium bank like this in my car. But I’m wondering if my slightly upgraded alternator will support it. My car came with a 90 amp from the factory. I’ve upgraded to 130 amp from a different model with the same engine. But I don’t know if it’s enough to support a headway bank.
@@garyclemmons1073 Again, it depends how much you draw. A 1.0 amp alternator would work perpetually if you have 0.9 amp draw.
@@garyclemmons1073 This power supply was just not made for this. When it's overloaded it goes into protect. I don't know much about alternators, but I don't think alternators do that.
Is a balancer really necessary?
Yes.
And if I don't put a balance.what Wil happen?
@@edsonvanams2760 Best case scenario a bad cell drains your battery bank. Worst case scenario catastrophic fire. A balancer is bare minimum. You might even want to consider using a BMS.
I've been charging my lithium with a 4amp Battery Tender from Walmart with no issues
I need something that can charge and act as a power supply so that I can test amplifiers.
@DIYAudioGuy Oh okay I understand. I charged my JP 6.0 and JP 500 farad cap bank with this charger and pushing a JP33 on 3 Resilient Sound RS 10's no problem.
those boards suck ! replaced tons of them with proper bars.
Ok, I'm an electrical engineer who has designed lithium battery protection and charging systems, and there are so many issues here that all I can say is please do not do this. These batteries have certain parameters that need to be addressed for even approaching safe usage. What you are doing is unsafe on many levels and I would say that you are on the path to having this pack burn up in a manner that will probably burn down your garage and hopefully not hurt anyone or worse. This can happen at any time, when charging, discharging or even while the battery is resting disconnected while you are sleeping. Just the beginning: 1, Do not exceed the maximum charge or voltage that the cell manufacturer has listed on their spec sheet. This is specific to each cell designed by the manufacturer. These cells are not like using D cell where the parameters are tied to a general design range. 2, Do not charge, store or discharge the battery cells outside of their specified temp ranges. 3, Do not discharge above the maximum current rating of the cell as listed on the specific cell data sheet. There is no rule of thumb for this. 4, the charge and discharge limits are so importaint that you must use a battery protection circuit that will disable the chargeing or discharge if they are exceeded - this can help to prevent a thermal event. 5, Do not discharge the battery below the minimum charge voltage - the battery protection board should be designed to do this automatically. Inexpensive charge balancers and battery protection boards that are available from china can be (And are often) so bad that they simply do not work. On one design we were given 8 different battery protection boards from a china based "Professional battery supplier" and none of them protected the battery in all of the cases listed above. note that longevity and safety are based on all of the parameters listed above. using the cells in a manner that is far on the safe side of these make it far more likely that you will not have a thermal event. here is a bonus point - The manner in which a cell was specifically historically used determines directly the probability of a thermal event happening - so these used cells that you got - how were they used? The issue is that there can be crystals that form in the dielectrics that can pierce through the separators inside the battery - this is made far worse from misuse. you have no idea how these used cells were cared for. I would only keep a battery like that in a separate building far away from my house, and I would treat it like a thing that is going to have a thermal event. There should already be laws about this sort of thing - this is why rural houses are not alllowed to put a large propane tank inside their house - it needs to be kept away from the house outside. Be aware that when batteries start on fire there is almost no hope of realistically putting out the fire. Fire departments just wait for it to stop burning while dousing the area with water to try to stop surrounding things from burning.
Electrical engineer who can read a wiki and not understand anything he's read or re-written lmao.
I have used headway cells for 5+ years in car audio, never a single issue on any of the banks I have, I also use the same balancer he has listed in the links for the 5+ years as well. This will trigger you even more, I have an agms upfront under the hood and these banks ran to them with no isolator charged with dual alts, but I do pull them every 2-3 months, balance them and check each cell afterwards, reassemble and fully charge them let them rest, then put them back in my vehicles.
10s of thousands of people use these cells without issue, which holds way more reliable weight, than a random person on YT claiming to be an engineer. just saying.
EDIT" these Jag bus bars though, aren't nearly good enough withstand 1000 amps of continuous pull, I wouldn't even trust them for 200 amps continuous if I'm being honest, there is a reason we use thick bus bars and these jag ones aren't going to cut it.
These are lifepo4 bursting into flames, nope. Though having a bms would be wise vs just a balancer. More for longevity of the pack. Also you may want to used a balance charger for rc batteries like the icharger x8 or whatever you want. Beyond that bulk charge with a modified hp power supply.
These are lithium iron phosphate batteries.
@@Joe_1776same