Stroking a Tired Pontiac 326 for a LeMans Rebuild - MuscleCar S2, E13
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- The LeMans frame is finished up and it's time to take a tired stock motor and turn it into a powerful stroker.
PARTS USED IN THIS EPISODE:
Ames Performance Engineering: Engine Internals
ARP: Accessory kit, head bolts. Two-bolt main kit, rocker arm studs.
Auto Body Color & Supply Co.: Black Epoxy primer, ROLOC discs, was remover, maroon general use pan.
Auto Body Color & Supply Co.: Polyurethane and catalysts for frame section and underbody.
Butler Performance: Port and polish heads, machine block, special ordering ross pistons based on specs.
Butler Performance: Ross pistons, rings, and locks.
Comp Cams: Hydraulic roller camshaft and rocker arm setup.
Eagle Specialty Products: -4.25 stroker crank.-6.800 H-beam.
Edelbrock: -DUAL QUAD INTAKE.-500 CFM carbs takes two.
Lakewood Industries: Bellwood.
Mallory Performance: Distributor, bronze gear, wire set and E-coil.
McLeod Industries: Hydraulic throw-out bearing assembly.
Milodon: -3/4 inch inlet pickup.-Stock replacement.
Moser Engineering: 3.55 gears, Detroit locker, 1/2 inch studs, Torino housing ends.
Mr. Gasket: Gasket Set.
O'Reilly Auto Parts: Tie rod ends, sleeves, center link, idler arm, pitman arm, ball joints.
Prothane: Body mounts, control arm bushings.
Richmond Gear: Super T-10 4 speed.
Stainless Steel Brakes: -Drum to disc conversion with Force-10 extreme 4 piston & rotors.-Set up with FORD 9 inch ends. Black calipers, for custom 12 bolt moser rear end.
Zoom Performance: Custom clutch assembly.
Lou was always ahead of the other hosts. Need him back!
Always loved Lou! He has so much energy and always a positive attitude!
I guess that makes up for his lack of knowledge.
The world just wasn't ready for Lou back then. To bad. He's turned into one of the best hosts out there today.
He just hadn't met his soulmate Jared yet. Those two just click.
Yea if you say so! Disgusting they are apparently ready for jokes like this now!
@@unicornsteaks6769
What you be talking bout Willis ?
No really I'm trying to put 2 and 2 together from your comment ....Jared the boy toucher from Subway??
@@MrTheHillfolk yea him or the other host of car fix.
john k never liked him. Still don’t.
Its nice to see a Pontiac V8 being used. I have a 1972 455H.O, out in my shop. It's built nicely, and it will scream.
I had one in my '71 T/A with a Muncie 4 speed. I loved that car.
@@shawnrenaud2252 What happened to it??
I love those years of Lemans and GTOs! I graduated from high school in 71 and 2 seniors had them. One had a Lemans and the other a GTO. They were 66 and 67. Both the same color, dark cherry red, with black vinyl tops and cragar mags.
Love the car. Personally I’d have given the 326 the heave-ho and gotten a 400 or 455. All 3 are externally the same size.
Yeah, but then Butler wouldn't have been able to pay them to showcase their stroker assemblies.
As a people mover the 326 was a great engine, the made satisfying torque with their long strokes, the tiny bores aren't great for power though. Even the 455 bore is just a hair bigger than the bore of 400 SBC.
Same here brother
Wow, great job Lou,from an old poncho guy. You answered every question that I wondered about. You gave some "pontiac points" that perhaps some folks arent aware of regarding their motors. Maybe gave some hope for some of these 326's lying around. Impressive numbers for $5 grand.
My stroker Pontiac was a 428 .030 over with a 455 crank. 444 cubic inches of tire shredding torque.
Lou is a awsome person. I met him at the PRI "Performance Racing Industry show" in Orlando about 10 years ago. What you see on TV is what you get in person. Lou if interested in more Pontiac's I have a 1967 Firebird that the engine needs to be redone. In closing, Lou thanks for your service.
Great to see a. Pontiac in m Pontiac
1962 Pontiac 421SD had over 485hp and close to 500 pound ft of Tq. There is a you tube video of a Butler built 421 Vs 409, check it out
I rebuilt my gifted 65' LeManns when I was 15. I cant remember all of it, that was 40 years ago. I remember all of the Pontiac engines using the same block. I got some junk yard heads from a Catalina, a 455 intake and an Isky cam. This was in the 80's. It smoked the GTO's in my neighborhood.
2 speed, slip-n slide!!
I have only one question. Why ? The Poncho 326 has a small bore, and a stroke that is already too long for a engine of 326 cubic inches. This is like a bad idea all way around. Build a 400, 428, or 455 where there is some serious power potential.
Because he can, they’re out there and why not? Still a good street rod engine.
Probably because they already built one of those.
I guess to be different but yeah either the 400 or the 455 would've been a much better choice.
It's just fun to do something different sometimes.
I think the point they are making is just to see how much power they can get from the original block. Expensive? Yes but they have the money because it's a TV show. It's also a plus keeping the original engine in it too.
My Mom had a 65 Tempest when I was 9 or so, It is one of only a few cars that I rember from childhood. And I grew-up in a Really memorable time for Cars...
If you stroke, don't deck the block or the heads as parts may collide, then BOOM! Depends on how much stroke you intend to put into it. My 1966 GTO had a 428 H.O. that was prepped. All cast iron. 4 speed Super T10, 12 bolt 4:10:1 rear. Could wheel stand in any gear. Top end was 125 m.p.h. Basically a town car. Not for the super slab. Ran 100 octane AVGAS. Good to have airport connections. Sounded good@3000 rpm with unbaffled 3" side pipes. Best damn car I've ever owned. P.S. Not a fan of lowered cars or trucks except if they're strictly used on the track.
Lou is the best! I met him in CA. He’s a class act. 👍🏻
Great work Lou, and thanks for the professional mopping tip. That's how I'm going to do it now.
Butler Performance truly is the best in the industry when it comes to Pontiac's.
you mean the Only one in the Industry for Pontiac's. :)
Glad to see Lou take the lead for a change, excellent job by the way! Always liked those ( W ) block 409's. In case you didn't know, you can buy a new "w" block through the after market and it's very much improved over the factory ones. Enjoyed the 326 stroker to 375ci build, great show you guys !!!
We really need to see more of this. Everyone is throwing in crate motors. That is rarely how it's done. You usually want mods and a salvage or the original motor is usually the choice.
All right, I like this guy I like the build on the car, if you ignore the transmission, clutch combination, and dual quads on the it's a somewhat realistic build.
but there's no way that they're going to turn a 360 flywheel horse engine into a 400 horsepower engine with some "in car tuning".
That's how it was with these Old-Timers. Put the motor in the car and just make up whatever numbers you want to for what it makes.
I'm a true Mopar guy but if I was to go with a GM product it's a Poncho all the way
I am 100 percent in agreement.
Or just Butler engines all the way..
Im a Pontiac guy who went Mopar
They aren't nearly as bullet proof as MOPAR or Chevy. If you don't address the stock oiling flaws they spin a bearing predictably ~6000, due to oil starvation, takes to long for the oil to drain back down to the pan. Plus you are always limited to a fairly small bore because they never made a big block, so the big displacement engines are effectively strokes from the factory.
Same here, Pontiac is basically GM's Mopar as well as America's BMW.
Funny this showed up, I happen to have one of these cars in my yard wit a 326, Now I'm really thinking stroker :)
Do it brother.
PONTIAC FOR LIFE!
Really nice. My favorite though was the 1964 LeMans.
LOL. "bring back his tools and make up with him".
I guess if you want to keep it numbers matching you do this but I wouldn't spend 5k on a 326 when you could spend 5k on a 400-455. Back in the day we used to give 326s away and just replace with a fresh 400 !
Your not wrong, but for some as you say numbers matching and power. Also good 400, 421, 428, and 455s are getting hard to find and some people want an arm and leg for them.
@@EfurdGarage Yeah, but you can still find a junk car Catalina complete with a rebuildable 400-455 for dirt cheap. The ones that are expensive are the ones that the engine is pulled . They're still out there , you just have to look .
@@benkrom2737 not many where im at most have been picked clean or crushed. Most of the big cars that have not been picked yet thye want a pretty penny for still mostly becuase of the engine.
@@EfurdGarage LOL, you made me look, I found one asking $1900 complete and then a 67 grandprix all complete with good chrome 8lug wheels all there for $3300. All those parts including trim interior all there , car looks like it has every option you could get. Looks temping just to restore the car. Rare for the 67 is they had a Carter 4bbl Qjet not a Rochester. Ahhhhhh tempting !
@@benkrom2737 car like that you wouldn't want to tear apart lol, i didnt say it wasn't possible to find them i just said it wasn't as easy. But where i am at you just dont see many old pontiacs anyway, hard to find unless you wanna drive a ways. its kinda why i have been hording blocks
Love It wish my old 67 Firebird had that braking system and running gear, Old Vet Tom
Very glad this is being done instead of making it another rock crawler like someone else did.
Been a fan for years but this and the Firebird were my absolute favorites. Closely followed by the 225 Leaning Tower of Power.
Gotta love a Squid, certainly knows how to swab the deck. ;)
Edit: Love from a Dirty Leg
love the pochos, so great content, great show. now dont forget to fit the headers before you bolt the engine down
You're about 18 years too late with that advice...
Thomas Daddio thanks :)
In the 60s i delivered pizza in Detroit, with one of these 326 w/3 on the tree. Really good car.
lou deserve his own show..
I prefer using black epoxy primer and then coat with polyurethane clear on my frames & suspensions parts. No sanding between coats and a super tough finish for cheap.
Good job, Lou. Surprised Butler didn't advise against that intake/carb choice for power. Looks good tho.
Nice engine work and I love the rear end, no pun intended, it is just what the build needs.
Had a 65 LeMans with the 2 speed power glide automatic. Best 2-Door car I ever owned, fast and handled very well on the straight or curves. Most thought it was a GTO, one guy even called it a Tempest. Traded it for an AMC Matador 9 passenger wagon with a 401 V8, when I got married with kids. Oh well you Do learn from mistakes of All kinds.
That gunk in the upper tray was just Nasty, did they Ever change the oil or just top off with the same filter, for how long? lol
The Pontiac never used the powerglide.
It used the transmission was the Super turbine 300. Look it up. It's even in the Chilton manual.
Lou u r amazing man! Your funny humors make me laugh a lot.
I'm looking forward to see u more.Good luck.
God bless all of us.
You do know how old these episodes are right?
Why didn't you finish tuning it in on the Dyno? It be really nice to see what it did all Tuned in
Right?! Wtf lol?
There's so much potential hidden in the 326 bases 375 Stroker.
Unique and fun engine build. 👍
In 1982, I bought a 67 Pontiac LeMans with a two speed powerglide transmission and a 326 motor, most of my high school friends laughed at me and said I bought a grandpa's car, then I started repairing and rebuilding, rebuilt a transmission with the biggest strongest components I could find at the time, rebuilt the motor, had to block balanced and blueprinted, had a custom built cam with a long duration put into it and stroked it, I put roller rockers on it and studded the head, I also put studs in the block for the main bearing caps and for the exhaust manifolds, Iput a blower on it as well as nitrous. Had the rear end gone through and beefed up, had 3:73 gears put in it, and an eaton locker, had custom-made axles put in it and of course all new bearings and seals, put some traction bars on the leaf springs to eliminate the axle twist, some wider speed rated Mickey Thompson tires on the rear and heavier duty speed rated MT tires on the front,Without using the nitrous I could accelerate so fast that I could pin $100 bill on my dash and if anyone could lean forward through the g's and grab it they could have it, needless to say no one ever did.
Excellent work..!
I really like a good care of all parts of you and a very high quality service at all.
Cheers from Istanbul...
Cool they reworked the factory heads but since Pontiac used bore and stroke to change size, any aftermarket head would have worked and better money spent/ more performance.
At the Westech dyno facility, ten days before the first Engine Masters contest, MY 326 made 551 hp. Use us for REAL killer torque numbers. At 3200 rpm our street pump gas 455 can make 600 lbs ft of torque. Nice driver you bet
How I miss Lou on Muscle Car, but at least he and Jared are on CarFix.
Not anymore. Newest season has Brian Fuller
What happened to Lou and Jared?
This engine is well capable of making well over 400 HP.
Glad to see someone mess with a small bore Pontiac, even if its an old episode. Besides the large ports, the other two benefits of the LS engine from GM is the long connecting rods (which Pontiac had, even if they were made with Armasteel rather than forged) and the deep skirt/Y block configuration of the LS means the larger crankcase has room not just for stroke (Too bad the short cylinder walls can make for piston rock at BDC of some blocks) but also handles the compression of atmosphere inside the crankcase every time the pistons race to BDC like a parachute (some blocks have holes in the main webs to let atmosphere move rather than compress). The Pontiac, of course, has a wide crankcase of its own to take a 4.25" crank.
Nunzi's in Brooklyn NY is also a great source for Pontiacs. A 4 inch aftermarket crank could have also been used in this stroker. The small bore might be questioned for airflow, but stock Pontiac valve angles are better than the Chevy small block, and most OEM use a small bore to reduce detonation from a second flame front (little room and time for it to form). The block's weak spot is its lifter bores--they aren't cast inside the lifter valley like most V8's, but just hang there and can snap off with radical cams.
Thanks for the mopping tip and your time in the service. A pro is someone who does the basics better than the amateurs. As for mopping, the other tip is where you hung the sqeezer....one side of the bucket has its wheels mounted outside the bucket bottom for a reason--so you don't push down on the sqeezer and tip the bucket over to dump dirty water over your work.
Oh, and that oil sludge? That's one of the reasons why engines died at 80,000 miles and gas stations had garages, not convenience stores. There wasn't detergent like today, there was paraffin wax and you needed to change it hot every 3K so it didn't clog up the works. Piston rings thick as your finger and few overdrive transmissions didn't help either.
This episode is so old RUclips had to stretch it from 4:3 to 16:9.
Ah Common Bradley' your just a prude~!
@@georgeveghte6459 I'm not sure what makes my comment prudish, but if you saw the contents of my hard drive I doubt you'd still call me that lol.
This is so old 357 HP from 376 CI was impressive.
16:57 It was made in 2007. So 13 years old.
MAN WHAT A GREAT RUclipsR❤
LOVE WHAT U DO!!!!!!
JUST AWESOME
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
I worked for Pontiac. For the record the 326 was not 326 ci. It was a 343ci engine. DeLorean was told NOT TO EXCEED 326 cid. That was how it evolved.
the best thing to do with a 326 block, is pull the crank, main caps, etc and scrap the bare block, or paint it, and use it as an end table in the garage. it only has a tiny 3.72" bore, around the size of a 283 chevy. major cylinder valve shrouding issues. Pontiacs are heavy cars, without at least 450 ft. lbs. torque, they are a slug.
I notice that the head gasket bore is over size🤔 wouldn’t that affect the compression 🤔
It sure does. They should have used a head gasket that matched the bore. That's also a big power loss. 25 to 30 hp lost and just as much tq
I wish this show would come back 😭😭😭
It never went away...
Striker motors have come into their own now that there is better metallurgy to support the strain. In the old days the cast iron cranks wouldn't handle it, but the new forging system can do what the old cranks couldn't, live! Has awesome, because building high cube engines used to depend solely on the available on blocks. After decades of scrounging, there are fewer and fewer blocks available, hence the stroker! And the longer the stroke, the more the low end torque. Olds used to say Horsepower sells cars, but Torque wins races, and they were right!
All of their early engines were strokers, until the 403 came along. Then they unleashed the high RPM beast. But before that they were doing well at the track at lower RPM than their GM counterparts. The later 403 used roughly the same dimensions as Mopar's 400, and those motors were aimed at making power efficiently. The EPA mandated better fuel mileage with lower emissions than was available back in the day. Pontiac started using Chevy Motors in their cars as their engines were heavy and the Small Block Chevy wasn't. And when they weren't using Chevy engines in their cars they Used Buick V6's and some Olds engines, like their 403 and 260. The only engine they kept was their 301 which was used in the Trans Am, with a turbo. But the crank they used was missing counterweights and the block was windowed in the main webs leaving that motor weak as a kitten. Not a good design for any car, let alone a performance car like the TA!
Those were the episodes I really liked. Always thought Lou was their best. Other guys were good but Lou and “the demolition man” were best. Miss the old ones.
Good to see one of the less popular pontiac engines worked on. But don't the aftermarket heads work? is it just the valves are too big for the bores?
Probably
Lou is a great show host!
Always nice to hear someone who actually knows how to pronounce "Impala"; theres no "U" after the first "A"!
Dana Reynolds impaley lol
Probably cuz they watch those nature shows about the Impalas in Africa they act like they spell it differently
I hear ya. I been saying it the " right " way my whole life. Then I hear some dipstick say it like the don't even know what a Impala is.
Dana Reynolds This has gripped me for years so it is good to hear someone pronounce it right and someone else say it. I think the west coast pronunciation is Impala!
Midnight Trumptrain wrong it is Im pal a just like the the animal. That’s why the Impala is in the circle. Contrary to some negative people.👍😃
Loved Lou but they should have never wasted their time on a 326. 400 or 455 would have been better & probably cheaper.
Lou Rocks!
Wasn't the Pontiac '326' actually 336" at the end?
edit: OK... '63 '326' was 336", then GM said max 330, so went 326" in '64 - '67... sounds like this engine ended about 380"...
"In car tuning" for 400 HP ??? ... Wouldn't it be much easier on the dyno?
.
My guess is that was the tuned up run.
Lou and Tommy together on MC. I'd just about pay money to see that.
I have Serious doubts that Pontiac motor made 400hp , because if it did we would have seen the dyno horsepower Numbers ? Right...????
Yeah, who tunes in car when it's already on the dyno???
To me a vehicle loses an element of authenticity when a diff power plant make is utilized so yes its great to see poncho in poncho...
I like that ice blue Pontiac painted thier engines
Yeah, like the darker silver blue over the 'corporate blue'...
That car is screeeeeeeeaming for a Gear vendors overdrive unit behind that super T-10 !
I've been waiting fo someone to build a 326 or 350 Pontiac, especially with dual quads or three deuces.
You know that lemans looks good when they pop the hood.
Hell yeah shipmate. Great build.
This host isnt doing this anymore? Hes the best
Stroking gives your piston a longer top end too me and my friend had a tempest with a 326 it was so fast it would take your stomach away we changed the transmission from a Pontiac to a Chevy and it wasn't the same It was a dog.
I burried a 326 behind a house I lived in 32 years ago.. Wonder if it still turns over.
The brakes are for an A-Body, sweet build!
Long stroke engines like the 326 make excellent street engines.
Awesome build!
After all that work and upgrading, a 4 Speed? Was expecting nothing less than 6 gears...
I always enjoyed his commentary....wish he was still a host.
Love the old hot rods my step bro has 2 68 camaros one Z28 and an SS but im into mustangs lol i have a 99 GT N/A that runs 7.09s in 1/8 mile it has a 03 crown vic police engine built out ass
what a great host.
We had a '66 Pontiac LeMans, 326 ci 2 bl, three speed auto. Thought it was a fast car back then. Learned how to drive in that car. Dad used to let me drive it from the front of the house to the back by myself at the age of 13, once he saw I was responsible. They sold it to some guy that lived on the other side of our development. I would go to the commissary with my Mom on Saturdays, She would drive down the alley where that guy lived and stop behind his house and stare at that car. She learned how to drive in it also. I told her she needed to stop, because it was becoming creepy and the guy would call the cops on her. One Saturday She drove by his house and the car was not there. After multiple times after that, the car was no longer there. I think the guy moved away. My Mom was really freaking me out, was kinda glad it was gone.
Why have we not heard of an upgrade kit for older engines and some new? Guides for the valves that do not let them move sideways that rockers create. Guides and valves last far longer. Std on a lot of newer vehicles.
Butler baby!
Kind of funny, in 63 the 409 motor was over 900 pounds at 409hp but the 63 Corvette with the factory fuel injection was only 525 pounds and put out a whopping 375hp (Balanced & blueprinted closer to 500 horse) and would give that heavy ass 409 in that 4,000+ pound Impala all it could handle. Pound for pound nothing was as impressive as Chevys 4 inch bore steel forged crank 327 until the 1970 LT-1 /350 came out
And now go for SBC 400:
It's a good project. I had a buddy in the Air Force do the same thing in the late 80s. I would rather stroked a 400 Pontiac for 428 CID.
"Even stock parts are fun to put on."
I wonder where the black and gold and Lemans is at.
You need to do A 455 GTO 4speed with tri power love your shows Awesome builds
As a former Poncho guy, no way I would spend money on less than 400 cui...
I'm really curious how a contemporary F1 engine makes 850hp from a 1.6 liter V6 turbo.
With their hybrid power i hear its around 1000hp.
I hear that an F1 engine dose not have a long stroke because that's how they get the high rpm's.
Plus I hear about the pre ignition chamber that's direct injected.
I also hear the tolerances are super tight and it takes a hour or 2 to get the warm oil to warm up the engine so they can start it up.
I wish maybe on the show where you guys focus on engines you can talk about it.
Basically, having such a short stroke, small bore means it'll rev as high as desired, then with their cross ignition style chambers they'll handle any amount of boost desired.
Which goes along with having such a small engine, the smaller your engine the higher boost in theory you're apt to. Although I'm not sure exact specifics but I can assure you they're not standard parts either. Although they could be forged, because a smaller piston with the same ridges and forge ways to increase its strength would be a lot harder to break because it has less surface area. In a way it's like adding dimples to your trussets in your cages, you're breaking up big pieces of metal into smaller sections to make them tougher.
So with very tough very small parts and decent sized twin turbos you got a massive power engine in a miniature package.
Hope this helps, although I'm not an engineer by any means, I'm just an engine builder doing my best to give you the info you're looking for.
There are plenty of F1 fans who could probably help you more than me
How can someone not like this?
This man reminds me of pimp my ride...he should have a show called pimp my engine
Lou knows his way around that mop... you can tell he was Navy.
Love Pontiac’s. Does anyone know what years Pontiac won LeMans?
Crazy to see Lou in Muscle Car... I keep expecting to see Jared walk in with a funny T shirt.
Jared used to be his co host on musclecar too. He left though and went back to Rad Rides by Troy...
Why not go with a Ram Air IV 400 build ? Its the same block as the 400 so you could have gotten 425-450 horsepower and just as much torque
Damn this is a super trick setup 🏁
Can't wait until the finished car.
That engine is beautiful.
No guide plates ?the head gasket looks to big for the whole
That was a very nice build.