MC 12 is worth the risk and its a ron dennis product. Audi R8 is the only other real contender but would take a V8 with full options and use the change to track and tour it.
Have you driven one? Dont you know how dull they are? I tracked a v10 version and it left me dulled to silence. Dont reccomend this Audi A3 clone. Zzzzzzz
For me my added no.1 criteria is....reasonable running and servicing costs, I dont like shelling out on a product that I believe to be reliable. Thus the Mclarens and Ferraris are a test of how far your bank account wants to stretch on exec range 2nd handers??...low miles or otherwise built and owned... "never ad any bovver john"....:runs like a dream" stuff...
This guy recommends a McLaren 12c and an F430 over a 997 turbo? Clearly has not done his research. I'm not even a Porsche guy, but this is absolute cringe.
I agree, overall It’s one of the fastest, holds it value better, and more reliable compared to everything on his list. It’s not as showy but as a daily, that’s actually good. Other than enthusiasts, it can go quite unnoticed, which is good as a daily. You don’t want to drive a lambo daily, at least most don’t. Lol
listenging to your criticism, the 997 turbo S is the one to take. its perfect for what it is inteded to do. its a civilised, comfy superbly built rocket that you can use every day
You can't compare the gt3 rs to a turbo, one's a track focused car which can go on the road and one is a every day car and autobahn muncher which can be used for occasional track days.
Very interesting video. Last year I went through this exact process, with very similar reasoning. The McLaren 12c was high on my list, as was the 997 911 Turbo, Nissan GTR and even the Lexus LC500. Major reliability and repair issues with the 12c made me decide to watch that brand for a few years to see if newer models prove better. At age 56 I just don't see myself in the right social demographic to drive the Nissan GTR. 991.1 C2s and C4s quickly became my very serious focus for versatility and reputation of reliability. Then, I started noticing rave reviews for the 991.2 base model and I noticed the impressive torque figures that begin at very streetable low RPM. Slightly updated exterior styling, substantially improved interiors, more performance and convenience standard features in a Porsche that is less than 2 years old for the same or less money. The electric steering system is improved over the 991.1 and personally, I think it's perfect. I would of course be very proud if there were extra letters on the badging but what I've come to realize is that each subsequent generation of base 911 seems to perform as well as or better than the previous S models. Hopefully I'll pay this one off in a few years and can start considering a more exotic and exciting GT4, GT3 or McLaren to park next to it. But for now reliability and reasonable maintenance costs were a major factor. I apologize for the long post. Hope my experience is helpful to someone else out there. Cheers!
Thanks for the write up. Someone like me who’s going through the same thing loves to hear what someone else’s thought process was. If I was younger, and I’m only 35, I’d want a lambo or Ferrari just for the wow factor and “look a me” like when we were 19. But now I want something with the speed of the supercars, but with timeless styling and subtle more sleeper vehicle. Also reliability is very important. And I notice with most supercars like lambo and Ferrari’s, they’re really just for weekend cruises and never seen one with higher mileage. Also not to mention frequent high maintenance and services or repairs, at least from what I’ve seen and read. Seems like 30k miles for those other cars seems super high already. On a Porsche, seems like a lot is between 30-70k miles easily, and even though still expensive maintenance, it seems like it needs less frequent and is a bit more affordable on the dealer rip offs (aka services). Also, with the reliability, seems like I could enjoy it more without the worry of it breaking down leaving me stranded in the twistys.
Ok, had a 2013 12C. At $6,000 USD per service it gets old fast. Even though I can afford the $6k, it had other issues and it seemed like a time bomb waiting to explode. So be advised, I told you so. I also owned a R8 and blew that engine -- replaced it with a $50k USD new engine. I did regular services and treat my cars like my baby. I own a Porsche 959, 1973 Original RS, 964 RS, 993RS, 1971 911S, 1957 356A Carrera GS/GT, 964 Japanese C2 and others -- all low miles but I drive my cars around -- just took delivery of a Taycan Turbo S. You get the idea, I have owned and still own quite a bit... Stay away from R8 and McLaren and the others you chose are crap. I actually think the comfy and fun drive of a 997 Turbo S is a great deal. I owned a 997 S Convertible for my wife at the time. It is just a great, reliable and fun car to ride. You're being way, way to hard on that car. I loved it to take out -- and still think its one of the best deals in the market today. Hard to prove me wrong.
I've driven a 430 and a 997 Turbo and there's no way I'd choose a 430 over a Turbo. If all I had was narrow, damp British roads, maybe. But we grow our roads differently here in Northern California and a Turbo isn't boring. The real question is whether the 997 Turbo at $60-70k is worth 3x the price of my 996 cab. And check the highest miles examples of most of those cars for sale online. There's a reason why people don't drive them very much and 911's with 150k+ miles are common.
The Porsche will be far more reliable, no doubt about that. I also agree that Ferraris are made for twisting, challenging roads that demand frequent gear changes (to enjoy the sound etc). When my 360 actually isn't broken.. It's a thrilling, fairly raw experience. Saying that.. So was my old Carrera!
Britain has all types of roads and they are not usually narrow or damp and i enjoy driving in Britain more than i do in southern California. I have not driven in northern California but its much the same no doubt.
When I bought my 2018 991.2 Turbo S , I also drove the McLaren 570s and Ferrari 458 and the GT3, after 10 mins your really fill the harshness that’s why I went with the TTS it’s just more manageable for a daily drive. If your looking for excitement it will deliver just do a launch and get adrenaline rush it’s a crazy ride.
I agree that a small body car with a moderate amount of power, good compliance and comfort that enables a low care state of mind while driving spiritedly is a better drivers car than a car that can generate more extreme g’s in any direction but only on a prepared surface.
Great to see you back Jack! Love your style! What have you been up to? I’m not familiar with UK prices, but let’s be honest here, nothing comes close to the Porsches in practicality and trustworthiness. The GT4 is a pain to get in and out of with the bucket seats and harnesses in the way. The GTS is lovely, but to me looks a little dated compared to the 991.2, so here’s the thing: what about a Carrera T? It’s shouty, it’s raw, it’s mechanical, it’s reliable, it’s manual, it’s trackable, it’s possible to daily, it can be found as a four seater. It’s perfect, but not sure about the budget?
Nice vid. and great to see you back! One of the better RUclipsrs! For me it would be the 430. You only live once... But I'd also consider an Aston Vantage V12. Back to basics and got to be up there in the special stakes. Keep em coming!
Hi Jack, GREAT TO SEE YOU BACK! Good video as well, as always. Here's my tuppence worth.... 997 Turbo S, I would spend less and get a 996 turbo, perhaps I am an odd ball but I much prefer the 996, or even a 996 GT3 comfort spec. 991 GTS. I test drove a lot of these and the later 991.2 are very rapid but the turbo runs out of steam at high rev's. The manual box in the .2 is also a 7 speed box which is awful, as is the one in the Carrera T (another option). The .2 is perhaps the only car I would take 2 pedals over 3. The .1 GTS is altogether different and comes with a 6 speed manual. For me its the pick of the 991 GTS's, get the full GTS option pack, carbon folding buckets and a pano roof and joy of joys However while still on Porsche if you don't need need a 2+2 then the GT4 is so much better, in fact the 981 Spyder is even better again! Its a convertible (roof is not a faff its 15 seconds), has a 3.8L NA flat 6, a standard 6 speed (not 7 thank goodness) manual box, mechanical LSD and can be had with the buckets seats and CCB if you so wish. So good is the 981 Spyder I bought one over all the GTS's I tried. It has 2 boots for touring and I can confirm an easy 30mpg touring ability. Did I mention the noise! One of the best! The CSL, I have been in one but not driving. The gearbox was awful and it didn't feel that quick had no suspension at all. Don't get what the fuss is about, get a CS with a manual box or even a standard M3 and fettle it. GTR never been in one I can't get over the look of the interior, one for the PlayStation generation possibly. Also hear bad things about reliability, no denying they are quick but not for me. Likewise Audi R8, sure it's a nice car but that's what Audi's do, nice cars, I have an S5 and can't fault it as a daily but never driven an Audi with good steering or any feedback. AM V12, been in a few and again leave me cold, don't handle that well and for a V12 don't make a good enough sound that would make me happy to be averaging 13mpg when touring. Evora, difficult one as tried a few myself and the engine is magnificent but I ended up in an Exige 430 CUP which I found MORE comfortable and much nicer to drive. The sound they make is epic, really in the top 5 road cars ever made. I would certainly have the Evora on my short list (and did) but the Exige twisted my arm. Ferrari.....never again, been there, melting interiors, horrendous maintenance costs, not that fast, just not worth the agro. As for being a better daily than a 12C, no way! Have to disagree with you BIG TIME on that. Would have a Cali T over a 430 but only if I had to. Sagaris, yes, its wild, if you could why not! Would need to swallow a big brave pill and make sure the engine has had all the improvements. TBH I would quite happily take a Tuscan (not an S) at 30% of the cost and be almost as happy. If they don't work then you can always just look at them and that's fine ;-) finally The 12C. IMHO its the pick of the bunch alongside the GT4 / Spyder. it's rocket ship fast, looks stunning, has a big boot, again will tour at 30mpg and its a peach of a car. Put aside everything you have heard about reliability because get a warranty for the 1st year by buying from McLaren or privately with a warranty transfer and if anything has not been sorted it will be sorted. As you say Thorney can do almost all the out of warranty repairs now. The corrosion issues have all been sorted and the new wings / panels fitted to most cars are all fine. Change the hose clips and away you go. They are eminently usable as a daily, more so than most on the list being comfy, economical with a big boot and perfect view out & vision. The 12C is actually the smallest McLaren made (yes its smaller than a 570!). I know several owners who use daily and some with 70k+ miles on then clock, try that in a Ferrari 430! I made the leap back recently after selling my 12C and now have a 675LT so the 12C experience didn't wound me as much as my Ferrari experience. For what it costs the 12C is an utter bargain, it will make any Ferrari of the same vintage, even a 458, seem slow, it has a CF tub and loads of innovative design. At £70k with a 1 year warranty it has to be the most exciting option. So for £70 - £75k:- 1) = 12C (for the digital fans) 1) = 981 Spyder (for the analogue fans) 3) 981 GT4 4) Evora / Exige 410 5) Sagaris (with a brave pill & back up car) 6) 991.1 GTS manual 7) 996 GT3 comfort spec 8) 996 GT2 with high miles on a good day just about 9) There is no (9) buy a MK1 MX5 and spend £70k having loads of holidays, fun & 2 years off work.
Really useful video, thanks! I’m currently in a gt4 and considering a turbo for the extra seats and usability. Prices have climbed in the last couple of years but this video is still relevant with some great alternatives.
@@timochey I bought a 2008 Manual 997.1 Turbo. Lovely car, definitely more useable than the GT4 I had previously. I can take my family with me and we are planning some road trips for next year. It's a really fast car in any weather and won't try to kill you when it's wet or cold. It's definitely fun but not the most rewarding to drive as the speed is so effortless. It doesn't sound as good as the GT4 but then not much does. The only thing in the back of my mind is the age of the car and if/when something will go wrong with it. The Mezger engine is pretty reliable but there are lots of other things than can and do go wrong. They are complicated cars and cost a lot to fix. The only issue I've had has been the rear spoiler leaking but I'll sort that over winter. Just make sure you buy a good one with a solid service history and pay a specialist to look over any car you buy to highlight potential issues. If you want any more info, just let me know.
Keep them coming mate because we have missed the on point un polluted motoring journalism 😎👍🏽so if your gonna hit the road Jack 🎥take us along for the ride
FIRST TIME SEEN YOUR VIDS, HAVE SUBSCRIBED. LOOK FORWARD TO GOING BACK TO FIND YOUR PREVIOUS WORKS AND ALSO TO NEW RELEASES. GREAT TO SE YOU MENTION THE TVR. WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE SOME COMPARISONS BETWEEN THESE AND OTHER SIMILAR ODDBALL MACHINERY. GOOD WORK.
The Evora 410 has the new model 400 sill making it very easy to access compared with the early Evora that you owned...the engine is incredibly reliable and responsive and the sound..build quality is now very good worth a look
You did a good explaining why the Porsche 911 Turbos S is the logical choice. A lot of great and exciting automobiles which would be great to own, but power, high speed, controllability, drivability, reliability, usability, clarity of design, bring the Porsche to the front, unless it is your 2nd, 3rd or 4th car. Would also love to own the Ferrari, McLaren and Cayman GT4 in that order.
As a daily from those two it would have to be the GT4, wouldn't want to even think of the Ferrari's running costs. Personally the GTS in manual would get my vote.
Wow, crazy to see a manual F430 for 80k GBP (about 100k USD)... they’re about double that here in the states, simply because of the transmission. Maybe a bit cheaper lately but I’ve seen them going for as much as $300k in the last few years, while the F1 box was in the low 100s
Carl Harvey one of the best! Harry’s garage is of course sir Atwood and Planet Earth, and the CarGuys are awesome, but Nr 27 should really be exposed a lot more
Great to see you back mate. I am so envious at how cheap exotic cars are over there. In Aus the cheapest 997.2 Turbo S is AU$230k which is around 120k GBP.
He chose the right car, just the wrong 'friend' to review. Zero respect for the Turbo S and giving it a thumbs down over an Audi R8 about sums you up sir. If I had a friend that recently spent that much on a car they adored and I did a video a week later on it with the theme of 'wow this money could have been spent on something more exciting' - I would have to consider myself to be a first class douche bag. Poor form indeed.
Thanks for your review and comparison. Very illustrative. 997.2 tts for me pls. I’m in California as well and I daily mine. Perfect and very engaging for spirited canyon carving on weekends (miss a manual gearbox here but just a little as the paddles are pretty engaging at speed), easy on rush hour commute and beautiful for a dine out date. Super reliable so far. My second option was a gt4 but at the time they were overpriced and I’ve seen too many issues with the strut mount area on the chasis fracturing. This will keep me well away from those. Also, gt4s have a very long 2nd gear, for a winding canyon road, you don’t need to shift at all. And... For tracking? Motorcycles.... nothing more engaging that that in my opinion. :)
It's really good to see you back mate, I miss watching your vintage Porsche videos. This car is absolutely king of the road while the GT3-RS is king of the track. Even though it's more of a GT car I would choose the Mercedes AMG over this one. Hope to see you again soon!
I’ve driven a friends black on black 997 GT2RS, it was extremely fast, felt special and looked awesome BUT even that wasn’t crazy exciting, it had the akrapovic titanium exhaust so should of sounded epic but it was pretty muted. The sound for me is so important and the GT3s trump it in that regard. I would save the $$ every time. He’s also picked up the new 991 GT2 RS in the same spec with the weissach pack, i’m thinking it will be epic but yeah i think the GT3/Rs would still be my pick
Thanks, I enjoyed this video. Interestingly, prices for 2006/7 997 C2S/C4S are now in the £25-30k range (for a reasonable one) and similar money would buy a 2017 Audi RS3. If you find yourself with free time I would love to see that comparison!!
The 911 Turbo S is a pretty sanitary vehicle, though with scary speed, but with the 6MT it is much more engaging, and not to mention more of a handful at speed.
Thank you. Very knowledgeable and enjoyable review. However the running costs vary wildly; e.g. the Aston service intervals compared to the Porsche are half the mileage and twice the labour cost making the Aston 4x more expensive, without comparing mpg and depreciation. Someone once said, “If you need to ask the price then you can’t afford it.” Currently a scale model is too… A major repair on the McLaren (apparently can run into 5 figures 😨😱🥶) Doesn’t impact on the entertainment when things are good or your post. 👍
It's so good, so usable, so easy to drive it lacks excitement, Summed it up perfectly. I took one out on a private test track and said the same to my girlfriend. Just wasn't exciting to drive. The last 911 I drove was a 964 3.6 Turbo, with a sports exhaust, That was scary, loud, and exciting to drive.
Just got your videos and found this one on the 911. Technically it is a great car but lacks emotion and character. I was interested in various Porsches but end up with a Jaguar F Type R with an amazing supercharged 550 hp engine. No turbo lag and AWD. Yes a bit heavy but drives beautifully as a daily or tearing up the back roads with it in Dynamic mode with the exhaust wide open.
I've become somewhat familiar the British car world, here on YT. But I'm far from being an expert. One thing; you guys all seem to be comfortable with stunningly expensive cars. Maybe that's of necessity. Here in America, we have all kinds of affordable options that don't seem to figure in your market. I am personally not able to even consider the cars you covered here. They all cost more than my house. For my money (literally), the Chevrolet Corvette is the option of choice. They're full of personality and excitement, very fast and well-balanced, affordable to buy, reliable, and affordable to run / maintain / repair. Kind of like a sensible TVR, I suppose. I'm OK without premium interior materials and an endless list of luxuries. It's just a sports car to me, a toy, the point of which is a visceral and engaging driving experience. That, it delivers in spades. Even an old one like mine. It's plenty fast enough, with a mountain of torque right from idle and enough horsepower to obliterate any speed limit on any road in the land. Braking is fully up to the challenge, all responses are sharp, and handling is excellent. Driver ergonomics (once you get past the high sills and maneuver inside) are among the best I've ever experienced. The shifter is a beefy-feeling joy. Seats are comfortable and the ride is firm but not harsh. It's also reasonably practical, with decent storage capacity, etc. The standard targa roof is a treat. And I think it's gorgeous to look at. You'll notice that I haven't specified what year or even generation my car is from. Well, it doesn't matter, really. Here in the US, there is a Corvette for ANY reasonable budget. When new, any generation Corvette was a competitive sports car in terms of performance and livability, if optioned appropriately. It has always been a solid value. It IS very 'American' in its execution and personality and, like any iconic car, it isn't for everyone I suppose. Since it doesn't seem to be an option over there, I should really apologize for missing the mark by even bringing it up. But I'm quarantined and bored, so I did it anyway. I'll stop now.
Can't believe how cheap that 430 is, with a manual transmission! Those are over $200K here in the US. That's the one I'd recommend, unless he's going to be sitting in heavy traffic a lot.
I’m looking at an upgrade for my current C63 and have always dreamed of a 997 Turbo, I know logic does not really apply when it comes to supercars but logically it’s the best car out there for performance, something to be said about a reliable 2 door car that has iconic 911 shape and can run 10 second 1/4 Miles with minor mods yet still pick up groceries on the way home.
I nearly bought a 997 turbo. But I also wanted a convertible for the summer. So in the end I got a Ferrari 360 spider. That does booths jobs, and looks even better than the Porsche. Also Porsches are a bit common. Very happy with the 360... although I do tend to use it only in the summer when the sun's out. The rest of the time I've got a sensible Range Rover as my daily driver, and a 997 C4S Gen 2 PDK coupe when I want to drive something nice but the sun is not out.
Had one of those in manual....a brut, in the dry with the big tyres it (dry) plains and will wheel spin up on very very smooth tarmac, but it goes like....sh*t off a shovel....You will have to own or at least drive one of these if you can’t afford the Ferrari. It’s not a daily Sainsbury’s run to the shops car.....next pick would be the F430...but not silver yucky colour
I’ve come to the following as the fundamental major categories of vehicles people should own depending on which use scenarios apply. They are listed in top-down order of prolific use to more specialized use. You can blend vertically adjacent uses but at the compromise of the capability of both. 1. Daily driver/small hauler A2. Large hauler (e.g. SUV or minivan) A3. Special Utility/tow B2. Sports car (e.g. 911 Turbo) B3. Track car (e.g. 911 GT3RS, or other highly prepared street car, formula)
I’ve thought about most of these cars at one time or another. One aspect of a daily driver that people seem to overlook is storage capacity. A car can’t be a daily driver if it won’t hold the stuff you need on a daily basis and that will vary from person to person. I need a car that will hold a regular-sized golf bag. That excludes the Cayman GT4 which will not accommodate a golf bag . For others, the space in the GT4 might be fine. I love a manual, but if you spend a lot of time in traffic, a manual might not be a suitable daily driver. People extol the virtues of NA engines, but a lot of these engines have their power in the middle or upper band of the torque curve. Again, this is fine on the track where you can keep the car at a constant boil, but on the street that kind of engine can be a PITA. Again, it depends on the driving conditions you normally encounter. For my tastes and driving conditions, I would opt for a Porsche 991.2 GTS with a manual. I believe Porsche fixed a number of issues with the 991.1 and the 991.2 with the turbo has the low-end torque that the NA 991.1 lacks. But that is just me.
991.1 GTS steering is not set up correctly in my view and takes feel away. They did fix it in the .2 though. The 991 has numbed it down and civilised the 911 though which is now ore a GT kind of experience rather than a visceral one. GT4 or Ferrari i think yeah. The Boxter Spyder 987 is also a great mid engined experience / drive for much less money. Just that roof could drive you nuts.
You could probably liven the 997.2 turbo s with an exhaust and a few suspension adjustments. That said, my money would go towards the GT4 or a 996 GT3. As he went for a turbo though, I’d assume he wants something a bit more usable, so perhaps the R8 V10 or 991 GTS may be more suitable
Welcome back, I enjoy your videos as you don't preach or pontificate!! I've recently been going through similar machinations. I have a 993C2 manual and been looking to upgrade. For about the same money I can get a 993 Turbo with low miles or a 991 GT3. The GT3 is more hardcore but the 993 is more rare and seems to have more of a sense of occasion when you get behind the wheel, perhaps due to its idiosyncrasies. One consideration for me when buying a car is the exit strategy, my feeling is the 993T will hold its value better than a GT3, as there is less of them on the road. What's you view?
Personally I’d go for a 997 GT3 or Gt3 RS, the last without electronic interference. 993 turbo is also not a very sharp ride.. was criticised at time for being super quick but a bit anodyne.
Thanks for the replies. I'm in Sydney. True the 993 is feeling a bit dated but pretty new compared to my MGA lol!! I've not driven one but heard a 3.8 997 GT3 is pretty good and are pretty uncommon, which is good for eventual resale.
I think you're right re: values. A lot more 991 GT3s produced than 993 Turbos. The turbo will be unlikely to depreciate, unless all these legislative changes start to bite prices. I bought my 991 for the driving experience rather than future value. I've driven 993s, but the 991 is a razor sharp weapon. I'll take a big hit on mine though because unlike most GT owners my car gets driven... alot! First world problems though!!!!
@@davew5167 Thanks Dave, I'm in Sydney and are heaps of 991 GT3s in Oz, both PDK and Manual. The GT3 in PDK especially is super quick, but somehow I felt isolated. As an alternative I have looked at a couple of 997 GT2s, I can see how they would terrify you especially if it's been been raining!
CSL= gearbox rules it out for me. Love it though, watched Harrys vid on a manual converted one and it was epic. 996 GT3= Love but the dated looks hold me back Evora 410= Mmm man that’s a car for the $$ pretty special. Exige 380/410 cup= dam i think i would probably get one of these. Super fun car for the $$ and way cheaper on parts and servicing than all the others 12C = epic car but the servicing...wow would be hard DBS= To soft for me TVR= Now that would temped me 430= If you could find one in manual that would be amazing, would tempt me massively. Beautiful looks that never get old. Actually I would definitely put this close to the top or maybe even take it
Number 27 I didn’t see the RS! So yeah my brother has been eyeing the 997 Turbo in PDK and I know he is looking for a car to keep for a while and I know him, he’ll get tired of it being “Too Polished” and wished he bought a Manual car at least. He has had a thing for Subaru and AWD. I’d drive a Viper ACR, GT3, or Something more ridiculous for the road. lol There are so many great cars out on the used market here so it’s to each their own. My family’s definitely made up of Tennessee Porsche fanatics so I may just talk everyone into buying a different model. I can’t get my fiancé off the Macan kick so I guess we should just buy stock between the 10 of us. haha
As a daily/all-rounder, I'd take the 997 Turbo S PDK. As a weekender, I'd take either the Ferrari F430 manual or the McLaren 12C (or other McLaren). However, as I am writing three years later, I think the F430 manual has dramatically appreciated, so is no longer a comparative option. As a weekender, I'd seriously consider the R8 V10 instead. I note the 997 Turbo S PDK has appreciated 5-10% in those three years. Personally, I think I'd now try to find a 991.1 Turbo S, which are negligibly more expensive at this time, as I think such would make a better daily/all-rounder. On the other hand, maybe a 'lesser' 991.2 model, while less powerful, could be a more engaging daily driver. But, if your daily commute is short, and you don't need the added practicality of the 911, a McLaren would be more special, and the R8 V10 would deliver more aural pleasure.
Ferraris are not expensive to maintain mate. I've got 360 which is pretty much the same as a 430, and it costs me a lot less to maintain than my Range Rover. For example, a cambelt change at the main dealer including the belts was only £500! However, anything costs less to maintain then a Range Rover!🤣
Great to see you back Jack 🙂 really enjoyed watching number 27 again and I'm in total agreement I'd take the 12c really cool car! Keep the videos coming if you can buddy and happy new year 👍👍
I reckon because the car was essentially bought as a daily driver, you have to only consider dailies for the comparison. Therefore my choice would fall between the Audi R8 and the Aston while I'd throw in the Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio as a leftfield choice.
The McLaren is cheap to buy, but the maintenance can bankrupt you, if you are unlucky. Still, I agree with you about the looks, I much prefer the 12C to all other McLarens, other than possibly the P1 in black.
Авто/Мото
MC 12 is worth the risk and its a ron dennis product.
Audi R8 is the only other real contender but would take a V8 with full options and use the change to track and tour it.
I’m thinking of looking for some salvage rebuilt cars to save ...I mean be able to buy one in the first place
GT-R
Have you driven one? Dont you know how dull they are? I tracked a v10 version and it left me dulled to silence. Dont reccomend this Audi A3 clone. Zzzzzzz
For me my added no.1 criteria is....reasonable running and servicing costs, I dont like shelling out on a product that I believe to be reliable. Thus the Mclarens and Ferraris are a test of how far your bank account wants to stretch on exec range 2nd handers??...low miles or otherwise built and owned... "never ad any bovver john"....:runs like a dream" stuff...
This guy recommends a McLaren 12c and an F430 over a 997 turbo? Clearly has not done his research. I'm not even a Porsche guy, but this is absolute cringe.
The Turbo S is still the best choice of the group.
No its not, the gts is the sweet spot here.
I agree, overall It’s one of the fastest, holds it value better, and more reliable compared to everything on his list. It’s not as showy but as a daily, that’s actually good. Other than enthusiasts, it can go quite unnoticed, which is good as a daily. You don’t want to drive a lambo daily, at least most don’t. Lol
@@crimsonpirate1710 The turbo roaring is intoxicating... N/A only the RS, but too radical for everyday
@@crimsonpirate1710 GTS over a Turbo? Really? 🤔🤭 There’s only one engine here that’s bullet proof, best of luck with the other longterm.
By a country mile. 👍
listenging to your criticism, the 997 turbo S is the one to take. its perfect for what it is inteded to do. its a civilised, comfy superbly built rocket that you can use every day
This video is real shit...
You can't compare the gt3 rs to a turbo, one's a track focused car which can go on the road and one is a every day car and autobahn muncher which can be used for occasional track days.
Very interesting video. Last year I went through this exact process, with very similar reasoning. The McLaren 12c was high on my list, as was the 997 911 Turbo, Nissan GTR and even the Lexus LC500. Major reliability and repair issues with the 12c made me decide to watch that brand for a few years to see if newer models prove better. At age 56 I just don't see myself in the right social demographic to drive the Nissan GTR. 991.1 C2s and C4s quickly became my very serious focus for versatility and reputation of reliability. Then, I started noticing rave reviews for the 991.2 base model and I noticed the impressive torque figures that begin at very streetable low RPM. Slightly updated exterior styling, substantially improved interiors, more performance and convenience standard features in a Porsche that is less than 2 years old for the same or less money. The electric steering system is improved over the 991.1 and personally, I think it's perfect. I would of course be very proud if there were extra letters on the badging but what I've come to realize is that each subsequent generation of base 911 seems to perform as well as or better than the previous S models. Hopefully I'll pay this one off in a few years and can start considering a more exotic and exciting GT4, GT3 or McLaren to park next to it. But for now reliability and reasonable maintenance costs were a major factor. I apologize for the long post. Hope my experience is helpful to someone else out there. Cheers!
Often the no frills models offer some of the most fun!!
Thanks for the write up. Someone like me who’s going through the same thing loves to hear what someone else’s thought process was. If I was younger, and I’m only 35, I’d want a lambo or Ferrari just for the wow factor and “look a me” like when we were 19. But now I want something with the speed of the supercars, but with timeless styling and subtle more sleeper vehicle. Also reliability is very important. And I notice with most supercars like lambo and Ferrari’s, they’re really just for weekend cruises and never seen one with higher mileage. Also not to mention frequent high maintenance and services or repairs, at least from what I’ve seen and read. Seems like 30k miles for those other cars seems super high already. On a Porsche, seems like a lot is between 30-70k miles easily, and even though still expensive maintenance, it seems like it needs less frequent and is a bit more affordable on the dealer rip offs (aka services). Also, with the reliability, seems like I could enjoy it more without the worry of it breaking down leaving me stranded in the twistys.
Lovely Jubbly, great to see you back, and your enthusiasm just talking about cars.
Cheers. I think most were thinking I might be brown bread 🍞
Really interesting! And just goes to show how hard it is to go past a 997 of any spec as an all rounder at that price point.
Ok, had a 2013 12C. At $6,000 USD per service it gets old fast. Even though I can afford the $6k, it had other issues and it seemed like a time bomb waiting to explode. So be advised, I told you so. I also owned a R8 and blew that engine -- replaced it with a $50k USD new engine. I did regular services and treat my cars like my baby. I own a Porsche 959, 1973 Original RS, 964 RS, 993RS, 1971 911S, 1957 356A Carrera GS/GT, 964 Japanese C2 and others -- all low miles but I drive my cars around -- just took delivery of a Taycan Turbo S. You get the idea, I have owned and still own quite a bit... Stay away from R8 and McLaren and the others you chose are crap. I actually think the comfy and fun drive of a 997 Turbo S is a great deal. I owned a 997 S Convertible for my wife at the time. It is just a great, reliable and fun car to ride. You're being way, way to hard on that car. I loved it to take out -- and still think its one of the best deals in the market today. Hard to prove me wrong.
bloody hell what a garage you've got! Have you got an instagram or a car account?
@@qlus I keep it off the grid. Just added a Paint to Sample Forest Green Metallic 2022 GT3 Touring matching my 964 C2. Looks sick.
@@Coldgecko fair enough, great taste
I've driven a 430 and a 997 Turbo and there's no way I'd choose a 430 over a Turbo. If all I had was narrow, damp British roads, maybe. But we grow our roads differently here in Northern California and a Turbo isn't boring. The real question is whether the 997 Turbo at $60-70k is worth 3x the price of my 996 cab. And check the highest miles examples of most of those cars for sale online. There's a reason why people don't drive them very much and 911's with 150k+ miles are common.
The Porsche will be far more reliable, no doubt about that. I also agree that Ferraris are made for twisting, challenging roads that demand frequent gear changes (to enjoy the sound etc). When my 360 actually isn't broken.. It's a thrilling, fairly raw experience. Saying that.. So was my old Carrera!
Absolutely true. Which car to buy has a lot to do with what kind of roads one has access to and the intended use.
Britain has all types of roads and they are not usually narrow or damp and i enjoy driving in Britain more than i do in southern California. I have not driven in northern California but its much the same no doubt.
$60-70k?? I'm seeing $60-90k! And in IMO past $65k the car isn't worth it.
It’s a circular argument... the one car that does it all is the 997.2 Turbo S, it’s probably not the best at anything however it does everything well.
Welcome back! Great start to the weekend.... first thing I watched over breakfast here in California.
Thank you buddy, wish I was in Sunny ☀️ California!
Thoroughly enjoyed the review and great see other alternatives being shown.
When I bought my
2018 991.2 Turbo S , I also drove the McLaren 570s and
Ferrari 458 and the GT3, after 10 mins your really fill the harshness that’s why I went with the TTS it’s just more manageable for a daily drive.
If your looking for excitement it will deliver just do a launch and get adrenaline rush it’s a crazy ride.
Luv my 18 tts
I agree that a small body car with a moderate amount of power, good compliance and comfort that enables a low care state of mind while driving spiritedly is a better drivers car than a car that can generate more extreme g’s in any direction but only on a prepared surface.
Great to see you back Jack! Love your style! What have you been up to?
I’m not familiar with UK prices, but let’s be honest here, nothing comes close to the Porsches in practicality and trustworthiness. The GT4 is a pain to get in and out of with the bucket seats and harnesses in the way. The GTS is lovely, but to me looks a little dated compared to the 991.2, so here’s the thing: what about a Carrera T? It’s shouty, it’s raw, it’s mechanical, it’s reliable, it’s manual, it’s trackable, it’s possible to daily, it can be found as a four seater. It’s perfect, but not sure about the budget?
5:32 The 997 turbo s was NOT AVAILABLE WITH A MANUAL TRANSMISSION! It was exclusively available with the PDK 7 speed automatic.
Yup. That's why the turbo s is a no go for me.
Thanks, I was looking for an answer to this question
Nice vid. and great to see you back! One of the better RUclipsrs! For me it would be the 430. You only live once... But I'd also consider an Aston Vantage V12. Back to basics and got to be up there in the special stakes. Keep em coming!
Glad you’re back! Hope you keep them coming. Good idea for a video.
Thank you 🙏
Hi Jack, GREAT TO SEE YOU BACK! Good video as well, as always.
Here's my tuppence worth....
997 Turbo S, I would spend less and get a 996 turbo, perhaps I am an odd ball but I much prefer the 996, or even a 996 GT3 comfort spec.
991 GTS. I test drove a lot of these and the later 991.2 are very rapid but the turbo runs out of steam at high rev's. The manual box in the .2 is also a 7 speed box which is awful, as is the one in the Carrera T (another option). The .2 is perhaps the only car I would take 2 pedals over 3. The .1 GTS is altogether different and comes with a 6 speed manual. For me its the pick of the 991 GTS's, get the full GTS option pack, carbon folding buckets and a pano roof and joy of joys
However while still on Porsche if you don't need need a 2+2 then the GT4 is so much better, in fact the 981 Spyder is even better again! Its a convertible (roof is not a faff its 15 seconds), has a 3.8L NA flat 6, a standard 6 speed (not 7 thank goodness) manual box, mechanical LSD and can be had with the buckets seats and CCB if you so wish. So good is the 981 Spyder I bought one over all the GTS's I tried. It has 2 boots for touring and I can confirm an easy 30mpg touring ability. Did I mention the noise! One of the best!
The CSL, I have been in one but not driving. The gearbox was awful and it didn't feel that quick had no suspension at all. Don't get what the fuss is about, get a CS with a manual box or even a standard M3 and fettle it.
GTR never been in one I can't get over the look of the interior, one for the PlayStation generation possibly. Also hear bad things about reliability, no denying they are quick but not for me.
Likewise Audi R8, sure it's a nice car but that's what Audi's do, nice cars, I have an S5 and can't fault it as a daily but never driven an Audi with good steering or any feedback.
AM V12, been in a few and again leave me cold, don't handle that well and for a V12 don't make a good enough sound that would make me happy to be averaging 13mpg when touring.
Evora, difficult one as tried a few myself and the engine is magnificent but I ended up in an Exige 430 CUP which I found MORE comfortable and much nicer to drive. The sound they make is epic, really in the top 5 road cars ever made. I would certainly have the Evora on my short list (and did) but the Exige twisted my arm.
Ferrari.....never again, been there, melting interiors, horrendous maintenance costs, not that fast, just not worth the agro. As for being a better daily than a 12C, no way! Have to disagree with you BIG TIME on that. Would have a Cali T over a 430 but only if I had to.
Sagaris, yes, its wild, if you could why not! Would need to swallow a big brave pill and make sure the engine has had all the improvements. TBH I would quite happily take a Tuscan (not an S) at 30% of the cost and be almost as happy. If they don't work then you can always just look at them and that's fine ;-)
finally The 12C. IMHO its the pick of the bunch alongside the GT4 / Spyder. it's rocket ship fast, looks stunning, has a big boot, again will tour at 30mpg and its a peach of a car. Put aside everything you have heard about reliability because get a warranty for the 1st year by buying from McLaren or privately with a warranty transfer and if anything has not been sorted it will be sorted. As you say Thorney can do almost all the out of warranty repairs now. The corrosion issues have all been sorted and the new wings / panels fitted to most cars are all fine. Change the hose clips and away you go. They are eminently usable as a daily, more so than most on the list being comfy, economical with a big boot and perfect view out & vision. The 12C is actually the smallest McLaren made (yes its smaller than a 570!). I know several owners who use daily and some with 70k+ miles on then clock, try that in a Ferrari 430! I made the leap back recently after selling my 12C and now have a 675LT so the 12C experience didn't wound me as much as my Ferrari experience. For what it costs the 12C is an utter bargain, it will make any Ferrari of the same vintage, even a 458, seem slow, it has a CF tub and loads of innovative design. At £70k with a 1 year warranty it has to be the most exciting option.
So for £70 - £75k:-
1) = 12C (for the digital fans)
1) = 981 Spyder (for the analogue fans)
3) 981 GT4
4) Evora / Exige 410
5) Sagaris (with a brave pill & back up car)
6) 991.1 GTS manual
7) 996 GT3 comfort spec
8) 996 GT2 with high miles on a good day just about
9) There is no (9) buy a MK1 MX5 and spend £70k having loads of holidays, fun & 2 years off work.
Wow.. great post.. can’t believe you’ve bought an 675 LT, that must be some machine!!!!
I went from a 996.2 GT3 Comfort (with buckets, harnesses and Tequipment cage) to a 997.2 Turbo S. I loved the GT3 but I love the Turbo S more.
Really useful video, thanks! I’m currently in a gt4 and considering a turbo for the extra seats and usability. Prices have climbed in the last couple of years but this video is still relevant with some great alternatives.
What did you end up with? I am considering a 997.1 turbo now..
@@timochey I bought a 2008 Manual 997.1 Turbo. Lovely car, definitely more useable than the GT4 I had previously. I can take my family with me and we are planning some road trips for next year. It's a really fast car in any weather and won't try to kill you when it's wet or cold. It's definitely fun but not the most rewarding to drive as the speed is so effortless. It doesn't sound as good as the GT4 but then not much does. The only thing in the back of my mind is the age of the car and if/when something will go wrong with it. The Mezger engine is pretty reliable but there are lots of other things than can and do go wrong. They are complicated cars and cost a lot to fix. The only issue I've had has been the rear spoiler leaking but I'll sort that over winter. Just make sure you buy a good one with a solid service history and pay a specialist to look over any car you buy to highlight potential issues. If you want any more info, just let me know.
Great to see you back here Jack...everyday car I’d go for the Nissan but my god for the money (and my heart) it’s has to be the Ferrari ❤️❤️
Hello number 27 do you have a review of a stock Supra A80 twin turbo?
Keep them coming mate because we have missed the on point un polluted motoring journalism 😎👍🏽so if your gonna hit the road Jack 🎥take us along for the ride
Ha, thanks JB.. too kind
Welcome back, keep posting great videos like this!!
Thanks buddy!!
FIRST TIME SEEN YOUR VIDS, HAVE SUBSCRIBED. LOOK FORWARD TO GOING BACK TO FIND YOUR PREVIOUS WORKS AND ALSO TO NEW RELEASES. GREAT TO SE YOU MENTION THE TVR. WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE SOME COMPARISONS BETWEEN THESE AND OTHER SIMILAR ODDBALL MACHINERY. GOOD WORK.
Thanks for the very kind words and for subscribing Geoff!!
Love Porsche’s inc Turbo S 911’s but what should you get instead - simple RS6 all day long
Interesting.. never considered that!
The Evora 410 has the new model 400 sill making it very easy to access compared with the early Evora that you owned...the engine is incredibly reliable and responsive and the sound..build quality is now very good worth a look
good to see you back, hope all is well.
Thanks buddy!! You too
Is the 12c the one with the chocolate gearbox
Isn't the 430 V8 a flat plane crank? Sounds totally different to the Maserati.........anyway, nice problem to have, choosing between those!
For the money, I come down to the same 2 cars. Great taste mate! 👍
So my question would be how to best replicate the GT3’s razor sharp engine on a budget?
A standard 997S, with RS engine mounts and a fruiter exhaust does come a bit closer!!
You did a good explaining why the Porsche 911 Turbos S is the logical choice. A lot of great and exciting automobiles which would be great to own, but power, high speed, controllability, drivability, reliability, usability, clarity of design, bring the Porsche to the front, unless it is your 2nd, 3rd or 4th car. Would also love to own the Ferrari, McLaren and Cayman GT4 in that order.
Great idea to offer other options. Need to see more of this
Glad you like, will do!
As a daily from those two it would have to be the GT4, wouldn't want to even think of the Ferrari's running costs. Personally the GTS in manual would get my vote.
I'd have the F430, DBS or Evora. Would stay well clear of the 12C.
The 12c looks the best but is the worst to own
As a daily? - I don't need 4 seats, I would go for the GT4, for sure
Nice to see you back great video !
Thanks!!
Wow, crazy to see a manual F430 for 80k GBP (about 100k USD)... they’re about double that here in the states, simply because of the transmission. Maybe a bit cheaper lately but I’ve seen them going for as much as $300k in the last few years, while the F1 box was in the low 100s
A 997 turbo with an aftermarket exhaust and a stage 2 tune is just amazing. Nothing beats it in terms of performance and fun for the money
Agree. I'm really debating , had 996 turbo but for that money you can get a nice GT-R. Ufff
@@StreetDrivenDaily love driving the gtr but I’d rather own my Porsche. The Porsche club is amazing an so are the events held by Porsche
Smiling while bashing the car..... Best car I have ever owned......
What year was it? And how was the reliability?
@@chubz01 I have a 2011 with 44,000 miles. General maintenance is all.... GREATEST CAR EVER!
You need to do more vid reviews. I am tired of some these YTers who are clueless about cars doing reviews.
I’m simply shocked you don’t consider me clueless... but thanks!!
I totally agree, love Jacks videos
Carl Harvey one of the best! Harry’s garage is of course sir Atwood and Planet Earth, and the CarGuys are awesome, but Nr 27 should really be exposed a lot more
Great to see you back mate. I am so envious at how cheap exotic cars are over there. In Aus the cheapest 997.2 Turbo S is AU$230k which is around 120k GBP.
Thanks buddy!! Yeah, I always look in horror at prices in Australia... you have the sun though!!
@@Number27 Haha, you got me there ;)
Do you think that a 997.1 turbo is/will be a good investment?
Hard to say but doubt it.. sold in huge numbers..
GTS or GT4. Probably would go for the GTS for everyday use. Both sound great and much more involving than the Turbo. 👍
He chose the right car, just the wrong 'friend' to review. Zero respect for the Turbo S and giving it a thumbs down over an Audi R8 about sums you up sir. If I had a friend that recently spent that much on a car they adored and I did a video a week later on it with the theme of 'wow this money could have been spent on something more exciting' - I would have to consider myself to be a first class douche bag. Poor form indeed.
Watch the next video, I think you’ll find it interesting as my friend has indeed just sold the 997 and replaced it with one of the cars I mentioned.
Will do. Not seeing it posted just yet, but sounds like your friend is quite the fickle fellow!
Ha! I’ve not done the video yet, will be another week or so. And yes he has a few cars so would swap more readily than most!
tp be fair, he said at the start of the video that his friend was a bit underwhelmed by it. So he's not offending his friend at all
Easy there, PunkBot! He said his friend was underwhelmed and disappointed by this car. I think you owe an apology.
No manual box? :(
Thanks for your review and comparison. Very illustrative. 997.2 tts for me pls. I’m in California as well and I daily mine. Perfect and very engaging for spirited canyon carving on weekends (miss a manual gearbox here but just a little as the paddles are pretty engaging at speed), easy on rush hour commute and beautiful for a dine out date. Super reliable so far. My second option was a gt4 but at the time they were overpriced and I’ve seen too many issues with the strut mount area on the chasis fracturing. This will keep me well away from those. Also, gt4s have a very long 2nd gear, for a winding canyon road, you don’t need to shift at all. And... For tracking? Motorcycles.... nothing more engaging that that in my opinion. :)
Very tight on the motorcycle thing.. had bikes for years but not in the last 8.. no car compares in terms of the out right experience..
Great review.. Appreciate it ..
Nice to see you making content 👍
Thank you 🙏 . Will try and get vids out a bit more regularly again!
Great content and overview of what else is there for the money. CSL for me.
Thanks buddy, would really tempt me too!
It's really good to see you back mate, I miss watching your vintage Porsche videos. This car is absolutely king of the road while the GT3-RS is king of the track. Even though it's more of a GT car I would choose the Mercedes AMG over this one. Hope to see you again soon!
Hey thanks Vincent.. hope to do the odd video again now!
Great vid.. my mate a has a 997 turbo.. super fast but bland as you have said. I would prefer the CSL!
For me the DBS please, fast enough for countryside thrill
I’ve driven a friends black on black 997 GT2RS, it was extremely fast, felt special and looked awesome BUT even that wasn’t crazy exciting, it had the akrapovic titanium exhaust so should of sounded epic but it was pretty muted. The sound for me is so important and the GT3s trump it in that regard. I would save the $$ every time. He’s also picked up the new 991 GT2 RS in the same spec with the weissach pack, i’m thinking it will be epic but yeah i think the GT3/Rs would still be my pick
Thanks, I enjoyed this video.
Interestingly, prices for 2006/7 997 C2S/C4S are now in the £25-30k range (for a reasonable one) and similar money would buy a 2017 Audi RS3.
If you find yourself with free time I would love to see that comparison!!
It would make for a great comparison.. if I can get hold of the cars!
Maybe 997.1 GT3? Similar price range?
A fair bit more money.. but great car!!
The 911 Turbo S is a pretty sanitary vehicle, though with scary speed, but with the 6MT it is much more engaging, and not to mention more of a handful at speed.
6MT is not an option on a Turbo S ... they are all PDK , first Porsche to have the pd standard fitment
Thank you. Very knowledgeable and enjoyable review. However the running costs vary wildly; e.g. the Aston service intervals compared to the Porsche are half the mileage and twice the labour cost making the Aston 4x more expensive, without comparing mpg and depreciation.
Someone once said, “If you need to ask the price then you can’t afford it.” Currently a scale model is too…
A major repair on the McLaren (apparently can run into 5 figures 😨😱🥶)
Doesn’t impact on the entertainment when things are good or your post. 👍
I have owned a 997 TT and now own a 991 TT. The 997 TT is great if it is has the PDK or manual.
What about Corvette C7?
You’re back!!! 👍👍👍
Great video and welcome back
Grazie Papo!!
It's so good, so usable, so easy to drive it lacks excitement, Summed it up perfectly. I took one out on a private test track and said the same to my girlfriend. Just wasn't exciting to drive. The last 911 I drove was a 964 3.6 Turbo, with a sports exhaust, That was scary, loud, and exciting to drive.
Just got your videos and found this one on the 911. Technically it is a great car but lacks emotion and character. I was interested in various Porsches but end up with a Jaguar F Type R with an amazing supercharged 550 hp engine. No turbo lag and AWD.
Yes a bit heavy but drives beautifully as a daily or tearing up the back roads with it in Dynamic mode with the exhaust wide open.
Thanks for watching Paul!! Like a Type R!
I've become somewhat familiar the British car world, here on YT. But I'm far from being an expert. One thing; you guys all seem to be comfortable with stunningly expensive cars. Maybe that's of necessity. Here in America, we have all kinds of affordable options that don't seem to figure in your market. I am personally not able to even consider the cars you covered here. They all cost more than my house.
For my money (literally), the Chevrolet Corvette is the option of choice. They're full of personality and excitement, very fast and well-balanced, affordable to buy, reliable, and affordable to run / maintain / repair. Kind of like a sensible TVR, I suppose. I'm OK without premium interior materials and an endless list of luxuries. It's just a sports car to me, a toy, the point of which is a visceral and engaging driving experience.
That, it delivers in spades. Even an old one like mine. It's plenty fast enough, with a mountain of torque right from idle and enough horsepower to obliterate any speed limit on any road in the land. Braking is fully up to the challenge, all responses are sharp, and handling is excellent. Driver ergonomics (once you get past the high sills and maneuver inside) are among the best I've ever experienced. The shifter is a beefy-feeling joy. Seats are comfortable and the ride is firm but not harsh.
It's also reasonably practical, with decent storage capacity, etc. The standard targa roof is a treat. And I think it's gorgeous to look at.
You'll notice that I haven't specified what year or even generation my car is from. Well, it doesn't matter, really. Here in the US, there is a Corvette for ANY reasonable budget. When new, any generation Corvette was a competitive sports car in terms of performance and livability, if optioned appropriately. It has always been a solid value. It IS very 'American' in its execution and personality and, like any iconic car, it isn't for everyone I suppose.
Since it doesn't seem to be an option over there, I should really apologize for missing the mark by even bringing it up. But I'm quarantined and bored, so I did it anyway. I'll stop now.
Great video mate keep up with the content
Thanks buddy, much appreciated!
Can't believe how cheap that 430 is, with a manual transmission! Those are over $200K here in the US. That's the one I'd recommend, unless he's going to be sitting in heavy traffic a lot.
It’s missing a manual shift. That alone will make it an exciting car. A drivers car...and an every day car.
I’m looking at an upgrade for my current C63 and have always dreamed of a 997 Turbo, I know logic does not really apply when it comes to supercars but logically it’s the best car out there for performance, something to be said about a reliable 2 door car that has iconic 911 shape and can run 10 second 1/4 Miles with minor mods yet still pick up groceries on the way home.
Yes, it is without doubt a very good car.. but I think a 997S, with right option would be more rewarding to drive
I nearly bought a 997 turbo. But I also wanted a convertible for the summer. So in the end I got a Ferrari 360 spider. That does booths jobs, and looks even better than the Porsche. Also Porsches are a bit common. Very happy with the 360... although I do tend to use it only in the summer when the sun's out. The rest of the time I've got a sensible Range Rover as my daily driver, and a 997 C4S Gen 2 PDK coupe when I want to drive something nice but the sun is not out.
Are you sure that handbrake is on?
997 is a gentleman's car if you want crazy you get the gt3
Had one of those in manual....a brut, in the dry with the big tyres it (dry) plains and will wheel spin up on very very smooth tarmac, but it goes like....sh*t off a shovel....You will have to own or at least drive one of these if you can’t afford the Ferrari. It’s not a daily Sainsbury’s run to the shops car.....next pick would be the F430...but not silver yucky colour
997 ticks all the boxes for me as a daily. Close second GT4, both will hold their money. Third would be between the GTS & R8
I’ve come to the following as the fundamental major categories of vehicles people should own depending on which use scenarios apply. They are listed in top-down order of prolific use to more specialized use.
You can blend vertically adjacent uses but at the compromise of the capability of both.
1. Daily driver/small hauler
A2. Large hauler (e.g. SUV or minivan)
A3. Special Utility/tow
B2. Sports car (e.g. 911 Turbo)
B3. Track car (e.g. 911 GT3RS, or other highly prepared street car, formula)
Nice to see you back Jack.
Thanks buddy, good to be back!
I’ve thought about most of these cars at one time or another. One aspect of a daily driver that people seem to overlook is storage capacity. A car can’t be a daily driver if it won’t hold the stuff you need on a daily basis and that will vary from person to person. I need a car that will hold a regular-sized golf bag. That excludes the Cayman GT4 which will not accommodate a golf bag . For others, the space in the GT4 might be fine. I love a manual, but if you spend a lot of time in traffic, a manual might not be a suitable daily driver. People extol the virtues of NA engines, but a lot of these engines have their power in the middle or upper band of the torque curve. Again, this is fine on the track where you can keep the car at a constant boil, but on the street that kind of engine can be a PITA. Again, it depends on the driving conditions you normally encounter. For my tastes and driving conditions, I would opt for a Porsche 991.2 GTS with a manual. I believe Porsche fixed a number of issues with the 991.1 and the 991.2 with the turbo has the low-end torque that the NA 991.1 lacks. But that is just me.
Thanks for watching and for your input!!
Manual 430!! Classy spec as well
Great video and I have a friend in a very similar position.
Great!! Keep an eye out in a week or two.. a follow up is coming.. my mate traded the 997 for one of the cars I mention in the video!
Number 27 I assume it’s the r8. Just as reliable, easy to daily but feels more special.
991.1 GTS steering is not set up correctly in my view and takes feel away. They did fix it in the .2 though. The 991 has numbed it down and civilised the 911 though which is now ore a GT kind of experience rather than a visceral one.
GT4 or Ferrari i think yeah.
The Boxter Spyder 987 is also a great mid engined experience / drive for much less money. Just that roof could drive you nuts.
You could probably liven the 997.2 turbo s with an exhaust and a few suspension adjustments. That said, my money would go towards the GT4 or a 996 GT3. As he went for a turbo though, I’d assume he wants something a bit more usable, so perhaps the R8 V10 or 991 GTS may be more suitable
Yep easy to liven up for sure!! Thanks for watching!
Nice work!
Thanks Hamster 👌
Welcome back, I enjoy your videos as you don't preach or pontificate!!
I've recently been going through similar machinations. I have a 993C2 manual and been looking to upgrade. For about the same money I can get a 993 Turbo with low miles or a 991 GT3. The GT3 is more hardcore but the 993 is more rare and seems to have more of a sense of occasion when you get behind the wheel, perhaps due to its idiosyncrasies. One consideration for me when buying a car is the exit strategy, my feeling is the 993T will hold its value better than a GT3, as there is less of them on the road. What's you view?
Personally I’d go for a 997 GT3 or Gt3 RS, the last without electronic interference. 993 turbo is also not a very sharp ride.. was criticised at time for being super quick but a bit anodyne.
Agreed - I'm sick to death of seemingly every other youtuber starting every sentence with "I". Great to see some actual objective car review content.
Thanks for the replies. I'm in Sydney. True the 993 is feeling a bit dated but pretty new compared to my MGA lol!! I've not driven one but heard a 3.8 997 GT3 is pretty good and are pretty uncommon, which is good for eventual resale.
I think you're right re: values. A lot more 991 GT3s produced than 993 Turbos. The turbo will be unlikely to depreciate, unless all these legislative changes start to bite prices. I bought my 991 for the driving experience rather than future value. I've driven 993s, but the 991 is a razor sharp weapon. I'll take a big hit on mine though because unlike most GT owners my car gets driven... alot! First world problems though!!!!
@@davew5167 Thanks Dave, I'm in Sydney and are heaps of 991 GT3s in Oz, both PDK and Manual. The GT3 in PDK especially is super quick, but somehow I felt isolated. As an alternative I have looked at a couple of 997 GT2s, I can see how they would terrify you especially if it's been been raining!
CSL= gearbox rules it out for me. Love it though, watched Harrys vid on a manual converted one and it was epic.
996 GT3= Love but the dated looks hold me back
Evora 410= Mmm man that’s a car for the $$ pretty special.
Exige 380/410 cup= dam i think i would probably get one of these. Super fun car for the $$ and way cheaper on parts and servicing than all the others
12C = epic car but the servicing...wow would be hard
DBS= To soft for me
TVR= Now that would temped me
430= If you could find one in manual that would be amazing, would tempt me massively. Beautiful looks that never get old. Actually I would definitely put this close to the top or maybe even take it
Exige epic but not really usable day to day !
In terms of performance/reliability/practicality/price/depreciation the 997 Turbo S is hard to beat.
Yes, on those measures I agree..
Prices have surely gone up since that first comment!
Funny enough this popped up on my you tube feed been thinking of splashing out on a 997 turbo
I will certainly go for the Audi R8, but only the V10's engine. Delicious monster.
Think a newer PDK GT3RS would certainly offer the edge he’s looking for no doubt.
Mike Northern I keep telling my brother that same thing!
Yep but at much higher cost..
Number 27 I didn’t see the RS! So yeah my brother has been eyeing the 997 Turbo in PDK and I know he is looking for a car to keep for a while and I know him, he’ll get tired of it being “Too Polished” and wished he bought a Manual car at least. He has had a thing for Subaru and AWD. I’d drive a Viper ACR, GT3, or Something more ridiculous for the road. lol There are so many great cars out on the used market here so it’s to each their own. My family’s definitely made up of Tennessee Porsche fanatics so I may just talk everyone into buying a different model. I can’t get my fiancé off the Macan kick so I guess we should just buy stock between the 10 of us. haha
As a daily/all-rounder, I'd take the 997 Turbo S PDK. As a weekender, I'd take either the Ferrari F430 manual or the McLaren 12C (or other McLaren). However, as I am writing three years later, I think the F430 manual has dramatically appreciated, so is no longer a comparative option. As a weekender, I'd seriously consider the R8 V10 instead. I note the 997 Turbo S PDK has appreciated 5-10% in those three years. Personally, I think I'd now try to find a 991.1 Turbo S, which are negligibly more expensive at this time, as I think such would make a better daily/all-rounder. On the other hand, maybe a 'lesser' 991.2 model, while less powerful, could be a more engaging daily driver. But, if your daily commute is short, and you don't need the added practicality of the 911, a McLaren would be more special, and the R8 V10 would deliver more aural pleasure.
great vid mate, thought about doing podcasts?
Not really.. thought people were past those nowadays?
What about the Mercedes GTS, all of the AMG 63's or go a bit out there with a Hellcat then there is also the Audi RS6
Yeah true, should have mentioned merc but know fuck all about them!
The Ferrari is a great price but the cost of that first tune up would stop me. 997 is the way to go.
Ferraris are not expensive to maintain mate. I've got 360 which is pretty much the same as a 430, and it costs me a lot less to maintain than my Range Rover. For example, a cambelt change at the main dealer including the belts was only £500! However, anything costs less to maintain then a Range Rover!🤣
Great to see you back Jack 🙂 really enjoyed watching number 27 again and I'm in total agreement I'd take the 12c really cool car! Keep the videos coming if you can buddy and happy new year 👍👍
Thanks buddy, holy new year to you too!!!
Forgot to say in my comment I'd take the 12c but with a good warranty package 👍🤣
Jack, you forgot the V12 Vantage.... It just has to be!
Ha!! I like the DBS but can see your point!
cayman over a 911 turbo S LMFAO
Cayman is the better handling car. If you have self esteem issues, get the Turbo S.
I reckon because the car was essentially bought as a daily driver, you have to only consider dailies for the comparison. Therefore my choice would fall between the Audi R8 and the Aston while I'd throw in the Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio as a leftfield choice.
Yep, good call on the Giulia..
Had to subscribe. Great presenter.
Much appreciated! Thanks 🙏
The McLaren is cheap to buy, but the maintenance can bankrupt you, if you are unlucky. Still, I agree with you about the looks, I much prefer the 12C to all other McLarens, other than possibly the P1 in black.
Omg you alive👋🏻
Ha, yes more or less 😄
430 w a manual box! Job done! And I am a Porsche guy.
Snatch that 430 up they are definitely on the rise!
love a good snatch
@@irw4350 lmao