Vanes Sig sigil DOES work with Supp Damage!! It looks like we might need to make a video about different interactions with Supp Damage and different characters. Now where did I put my Rosetta?...
On Vane it’s stupidly good, I run triple supp V and spam 2 light into 2 heavy combo, that gives you the most cd reduction. You can also dodge skip the 1st heavy for even faster CD.
@@okami1272 Have you tried skill canceling aswell ? Not a Vane player but just curious (skill cancel you just use an ability, cancel out of it so it doesnt go on CD then use heavy attack)
@@demontoarch Yeah children (or "adults" with child-like habits) have a habit of turning simple words into unnecessary slangs. Always speaking in Oxymorons, which is ironically appropriate for them.
I greatly appreciate the video. Helps a lot. I think the concern with Rackam( I myself am a player of his) was hoping with CD reduction and Cascade would get very high up time on Double Tap, Wildfire and the bonus of Collateral damage but in the end you barely cut their cds down with all the investment. I was at least hoping with his sigil and perfect timing on standard shots with mix of skills I could have done Double Tap every minute(this including the time it's active so I have a 30 sec downtime at the most) oh well. I think it could use a slight buff for some characters who arent benefiting from it enough
So long story short: Cascade is better than Quick Cooldown if you attack non-stop and know you won't be interrupted frequently. I did like the extra bit about Supp Damage interacting with Cascade. I main Zeta, so she should benefit greatly from this due to her Supp Damage skill buff.
How do you know? They dont even show a comparison, but only explain how they work. Due to the purposefully intransparent Sigil descriptions its really hard to tell which is actually better for which character, until you compare both with each and every one of them.
I think at the end of the day, I will still prefer cascade over quick cooldown due to the fact that I can just slot in 1 level 15 cascade from sigil's sub skills (became level 16 with terminus' trait, and you can easily slot in another 4 level from wrightstones) and be done with it. While we need at least double the slot of quick cooldown (2 pcs = level 32) to at least match cascade's effect. I might be wrong though. But overall cascade feels more efficient to use, although we do have the option to run both.
As a Cag main, I run both max quick cooldown and cascade to further specialize her signature sigil while retaining dmg cap ofc. Build specially goes online when link time happens and you have perma rotation of pain train>Alexandria>charge atk>pain train>mimic doll>charge and back to pain train. Added benefit is also faster SBA gauge due to skills giving more gauge over X and Y attacks 🎉
As a Cag main too, I realize that Pain Train Damage Cap ceiling is really-really high. Meaning, you can go way above and beyond the power level needed to hit damage cap on other skills and normal attack in order to increase Pain Train damage. My highest right now is 1.6 million damage per Pain Train, which considering its relatively short cooldown, and her signature sigil CD reduction, is really good if you are building her as a DPS.
@@franky6983 woww, i never notice about pain train dmg cap before, so beside the normal&skill dmg cap in overmastery I should find dmg increase, right?
Amazing job! That's pretty informative, than u guy for this amazing video. Can i recommend u guys cheking Drain? I'm actually seeing a lot of people thinking Drain only heals for 500 per hit, even tho I can definetly say that that's not true. If u guys consider doing this analysis, please consider adding Heal Cap up, from sigils and overmastery (as ppl say 500 is the max, they also think they don't add to drain power), and Draining buffs, like Vaseraga and Siegfried have.
Great, clear and consice video! Hopfully everyone will be on the page with Cascade now. And knowing it works synergies with Supp damage now is very enticing since i like being hyper aggresive (with potion hoader lol)!
Very good breakdown and well explained, I do however have a question if you see this and can reply. I main Zeta and currently I use quick cool-down at lv16 would it be better to swap it out for cascade or keep the quick cool-down? Zeta sticks to enemy’s like glue so I constantly attack and use all her skills so yeah a reply would be appreciated Ty.
I would say that Zeta skews a bit better with Cascade because she can attack so consistently and avoids a lot of attacks just by doing that. So it's probably better in most cases!
@@TheGameClub awesome will give it a test and see. I did think of a video suggestion (unless it’s been done) Character specific sigils for example Zetas Crimson flight, says you get an extended window for her loop attack but often i don’t see or feel any difference, some are clearly good but is there any breakdown video with the character sigils that are less obviously really good and how they actually do benefit that particular character?
Oh yeah I gave video a like and dropped a sub your channel is very good and I am surprised it hasn’t got way more subscribers but I think that will change very fast tbh
Gotta agree, cascade been always working. However, Supp dmg is definitely working for vane sigil. Rampart can be reduced from 175s to 20s just with supp dmg. No quwick CD, no cascade. Its a number that cant be achieved without supp dmg. Test it out, XXYY with max supp dmg + char sigil , on the dummy. Im pretty sure @rurikhan will agree 🤣
great guide. Does cascade not have an ICD then? Looks like it will have a very low scaling multiplier on every attack on the enemy based on your testing. Are these multipliers recorded on any sheet? Would be curious to find out who benefits the most from cascade.
Doesn't seem to have an ICD, it just scales suuuuuuuper low for really fast attacks. We don't have any actual multipliers because we're not computer doctors sadly.
Great vid! Knowing that, i think itll be best for me to test out whether cascade or quick cooldown is more effective at the dummy myself based on my playstyle. Thanks!
Never had any problems with cascade personally. Been using cascade & quick cooldown on Narmaya & Katalina, 2 characters i used the most. For Katalina im able to keep Aries on the field indefinitely as long as i have something to hit with my skills and the Aries pact combo. Basically i use Either "Enchanted lands" or "Winters Rain" to summon Aries then the Aries combo > into the skill i didn't use the first time > "Frozen blade" > Aries Combo. By the time im done with the 2nd Aries combo "Enchanted lands" is ready to use because of its low cooldown. Then repeat Downside is if you dodge or get CC'ed Aries goes away
one thing that would interesting to test is how both Sigils works together Cooldown Reduction reduces the cd for 20% meaning the wait time is 80% does cascade just "adds" and reduces by 2% on the old value so it'll be 78% after the hit, or does Cascade multiplies with the new value, so when it hits, it actually only reduces to 78,4%? (because 2% of 80% is 1,6%) since the cooldown reduction might be considered a new value of cooldown timer for cascade
I would say cascade is 100% considerable since you only take up 1 sigil slot (make it lv 20 with cascade sub wrightstone). I personally use both if im pushing dps and it works quite well. I do have a question, does cascade affect current cooldown or does it affect the cooldown of the skill itself? Example : 100s cooldown skill currently at 80s cooldown. Suppose the cascade value is 2%. Does cascade reduce it by 2% of 80 or 2% of 100?
While I never thought it was broken, the way you've shown how it works makes perfect sense, if cascade worked the way it read out in the first half, Lancelot would be like SSSS tier and super disgusting since he'd be popping off glaciate every few seconds.
Honestly I ended up running both for a while, just cuz I kinda could. Personally I prefer QCD, as while yes getting better will make Cascade more effective overall, oftentimes I find the boss will just… leave, and go attack someone else forcing me to go chase after it. If I have it on a wrightstone or something I’ll usually keep it, it’s never BAD, it’s just I find more often then not either the boss is mobile enough to significantly hurt cascade. Or it’s like Proto baha and you spend so long between most attacks your cooldowns are coming back online regardless,
Yes. You can also verify this by using a skill then looking at its indicator. Use a long cd skill with cd reduction and you will see it’s blue icon fill up immediately after use. And stacks with cascade. Just not as visible with short 10-15 sec cd skills.
That's a great question and not easy to test. So we're not totally sure if it's doing the original cool down or the new cool down from Quick cool down, but if I had to guess it's probably from the new cool down
have you tried X X Y Y combo on Vane with cascade and supp? i haven't tested it but it has a very high cascade modifier tied to a lot of hits. people have reported that it fills up 50-90% of his Energy Destruction cooldown instantly (the bug occurs once every 8 seconds or so, for that specific combo)
it's more because of his signature sigil than cascade, vane guide says signature works with supp as well. vane guide also says cascade is bad and those vane mains have done a lot of testing so i trust them more than i trust myself. also hit sir barrold a bit with just cascade and it's just ok. better than no cd reduc but not as consistent as quick cd and not as much as vane signature
just use both Cascade and QC, there is so many slots available anyway as long as you reach endgame where you only need 1 Critrate + Stamina/tyranny sigils +15, 4 damage cap +15 and 3 Supp V +15
ahh that's why rackam doesn't CD that quickly when his doing BBRRRT (normal attack using controller with turbo/rapid fire mode). thought i could keep double tap definitely on.
me too. I was at least hoping I could get it down enough where you'd have 30 sec or less of downtime. he especially could use it since Bulls Eye blast online is bugged atm so perfect timing shot burst is the only other option outside of aerial barrage and i personally dont find that too fun
If people would just comprehend tooltips and/or run a bit of test, we won't need youtubers. Good thing they wouldn't. Seriously though, this game has pretty good testing dummy feature that a lot of other games are lacking, and still misinformation is everywhere. Shows how most people don't bother at all and just want someone to tell them how to do it. Well made vid btw.
Doesn't Cascade value increase with skills who have longer cooldown ? In this video you have shown us buffs who have around 100+ seconds cooldown which gives you time to attack a lot, but say I have an ability with less than 30 seconds cooldown, I probably wont be able to hit enough to get a 20% reduction before it comes back.
Generally yes there will be a difference in how long you'll be able to work on a particular skill and that will pay off in more seconds gained. But overall you're generally getting value at all times because your skills should always be on cool down so it doesn't really matter it was just to demonstrate that it's working. But it's a great concept to think about
I thought it was pretty obvious how it works. Anyways, Quick Cooldown needs level 45 to cap, Cascade is only level 20, so it's easier to cap. Also, some characters like Lancealot just never stop attacking. If you use his dodge skill, it allows him to ignore mechanics where you're not supposed to be near the boss and just keep attacking. Point is, Cascade is not made the same for every character.
Damn dude, the way you ended this is great. I love how open ended you've explained the differences without saying "anything else is a meme". I'm definitely combing through all of your Relink content. Big respect
Why not run both? I have 3x Quick Cooldown as a sub stat and Cascade 15 combined with a lvl 3 (can't get a Lvl 5 Cascade) on a Wrightstone for a lvl 19 total.
There's no shot that Vane and Charlotta's character sigils don't get increased cooldown reduction when supplementary damage hits. Their cooldowns come back so much faster with Supp damage.
I like this video cuz I was trying to think of a build for my Rosetta and I want cool down reduction. I see online people are only building supplementary damage damage cap and crit but it seems like most of my DPS comes from my skills. So wouldn't I want skill damage too? And considering how important her skills are to her entire play style. And since her damage are coming from a skills when I want local down also. So I want to get as much cool down as possible. I still want to build for damage and crit. And it sounds still sounds more interesting to me than using supplementary damage. I don't even know what supplementary damage is. I'm not at the end game yet. I'm only on chapter 9. I'm like level 35 or something or 40. I'm not sure I forgot but I just started playing a few days ago and I'm just trying to think of a bill. So far she's the character. I like the most most the other characters I like from shadow first or Grand Blue fantasy. The mobile game aren't in this game yet like the grm chick. There was like this dragon girl that I thought was cool and so if they ever released those characters I might switch. My main Rosetta was another character. I liked a lot. I'm happy she's here and her play style. I like a lot too. I usually like playing summoners in RPGs and her in the chick with the Webster. The two DPS on my team and they're the two I'm going to mean because of their play style
ive seen so many people say cascade is broken but doesnt take time to actually test it to see if it works, can clearly see it works if take time like you guys did to test it but oh well lmao hopefully now people will understand
I love the fact people thought it was broken while it perfectly worked since the beginning 😄 Good for me because the game LOVES giving me this trait on important sigils.
i'm a yodorha main and i maxed quick cooldown and cascade because i believe they would both make me use my skills more frequently. after watching this video and see that you guys are choosing between the two. this makes me wonder if maxing both of them a mistake?
What about cascade specifically on Rosetta, feels like it doesn’t work especially on her rose attacks. Not to mention how it works with supplementary damage(like vaseraga double dipping?)
Unfortunately Rosetta's roses don't benefit from a lot of sigils. The roses don't work with Cascade, supplementary dmg, drain, concentrated fire (not counted as range), and they don't build up/maintain combo boost effect. Seems to be the rule of thumb with Rosetta is that if it's not coming from her body, the sigils won't work. Example being spiral rose attack coming out of Rosetta will trigger supplementary dmg sigil, but the spiral rose damage from her roses won't benefit. Now stun damage does work for her roses as they will fill the stun gauge, but hopefully with the new update in March there will be balance changes that will buff Rosetta's roses because Ferry's ghosts pets trigger a lot of sigils and they don't require much management as Rosetta's roses. One more thing apparently lost love triggers cascade and sup dmg, but I have yet to test that.
@@daviddiaz8339 yeah I had the feeling she was that way but it would be nice for someone to confirm it similar to how it is done in the video here I would do it myself but I don’t have the extra time
It's not that it's broken, it's that it's crap on multiple characters. My character Rosetta, a heavy ability reliant character has a huge part of her damage coming from her plants (roughly 40%) when her abilities are on cd. I tried it with only my plants, it gave me barely a second of cd with the plants only on lost love a 105 seconds cd (84 with quick cooldown) . That's a measely 1.9% of her cd. If I had a 100% uptime and kept on hitting ennemies I would go from 84 second cooldown to 81 seconds at trait level 12. Yes a 3 whole second of cd for one of the highest cd in the game (so one of the best scaling ability for this trait) and with an optimal dps as much. As I defend cd as one of the most busted stat in any video game this is garbage when you can equip a revive, 15% dmg reduction, 35% more guard or even potions for the same slot in your build. There's something even better: just equip nimble onslaught, level 15 it's 3.5% of an ability cd, amazing isn't it compared to the 2% of cascade? You also gain sba gage and more invicibility on your perfect dodges and it's way easier to activate since it activates on every perfect dodge and there's no way you are not making a perfect dodge in the same time it take you to get your ability back compared to cascade that is weaker with a way harder activation requirements of basically non stop dps.
Why not both? 😅 I kid of course since slots are limited. Thanks for going through the time and effort testing this! Really useful, plus good to see Cascade is working as intended.
Thanks for the info, I can't believe I sold all the sigils with cascade subtrait because I just blindly believe everyone who are saying it is broken...
From our findings it seems like Cascade is pretty effective all around. It definitely has a great modifier on finishers but that's because their General modifiers are pretty high
For characters like Ferry, Rackam and Rosetta, cascade is worse than quick cooldown, at lv 20 and non stop attcking on the dummy, it shortens the time less than quick cooldown lv15 which doesn't require the target to sit still, it's nice if you have room for the trait but there's just more useful ones
I main Katalina and like to run Cascade instead of Cooldown on her. She has a 20% cooldown reduction built into one of her sigils and Supp built into the other. So while I'm Ares bursting my cooldowns are pretty damn fast.
First of all her sigil says it reduces her cooldowns by 5% with ares active. Second is that I read that that only is active the moment ares comes online and is not all the time while he is active. People recommend not using it and instead get some other useful stat in its place. (Info on the internet is always shoddy so if new findings prove me wrong, then feel free to say so.)
Near the end of the video we show some testing we did that says 75 seconds without supplementary damage and 72 seconds with. This was done with Cascade and there were no finishers involved, only normal attacks. So we can conclude from there that it's working on all hits
If this the case wouldn’t cascade be godsent on both Lancelot n Charlota since all they do is attack, n regardless of how “small” the CD is, those two attacks fast asf
It works really good actually! It's just situational depending on how well you know the boss and what kind of openings/phases there are to deal damage.
@@TheGameClub that is why i used almost, because most situations quick cd is always better than cascade, but i still use it because RNG said i have to use it....
Couple things: Cascade procs reduce CURRENT cooldown not total cooldown, so make sure to be attacking right after casting skills to get the most value out of it. Cascade effective cdr numbers are more impressive on skills with longer cooldowns simply because you get more procs while they're on cd, but this is diminished it being only current cd so it's not linear. If you test it on a lower cd skill the effective cdr you get is also lower.
Vanes Sig sigil DOES work with Supp Damage!! It looks like we might need to make a video about different interactions with Supp Damage and different characters. Now where did I put my Rosetta?...
I know it works with vaseraga. Supplementary damage doubles the CD from his unique sigil allowing permanent uptime on his buffs
@@thtopec definitely something to look into for when we make his character guide
Yes please, would be a much needed compilation
On Vane it’s stupidly good, I run triple supp V and spam 2 light into 2 heavy combo, that gives you the most cd reduction.
You can also dodge skip the 1st heavy for even faster CD.
@@okami1272 Have you tried skill canceling aswell ? Not a Vane player but just curious (skill cancel you just use an ability, cancel out of it so it doesnt go on CD then use heavy attack)
Gotta love how broken can either mean EXTREMELY STUPENDOUSLY POWERFUL!! or, doesn't work…
Broken really means doesn't work as it should.
@@demontoarch Yeah children (or "adults" with child-like habits) have a habit of turning simple words into unnecessary slangs. Always speaking in Oxymorons, which is ironically appropriate for them.
He used it right here... calling something broken means it isnt working properly which can ne positive or negative. He said it is working as intended.
amazing video, well scripted, well structured, no misspeaking, good information and vibe
Finally someone give information regarding this. HUGE help. Thank you🎉
I greatly appreciate the video. Helps a lot.
I think the concern with Rackam( I myself am a player of his) was hoping with CD reduction and Cascade would get very high up time on Double Tap, Wildfire and the bonus of Collateral damage but in the end you barely cut their cds down with all the investment.
I was at least hoping with his sigil and perfect timing on standard shots with mix of skills I could have done Double Tap every minute(this including the time it's active so I have a 30 sec downtime at the most)
oh well. I think it could use a slight buff for some characters who arent benefiting from it enough
So long story short: Cascade is better than Quick Cooldown if you attack non-stop and know you won't be interrupted frequently. I did like the extra bit about Supp Damage interacting with Cascade. I main Zeta, so she should benefit greatly from this due to her Supp Damage skill buff.
How do you know? They dont even show a comparison, but only explain how they work. Due to the purposefully intransparent Sigil descriptions its really hard to tell which is actually better for which character, until you compare both with each and every one of them.
I think at the end of the day, I will still prefer cascade over quick cooldown due to the fact that I can just slot in 1 level 15 cascade from sigil's sub skills (became level 16 with terminus' trait, and you can easily slot in another 4 level from wrightstones) and be done with it. While we need at least double the slot of quick cooldown (2 pcs = level 32) to at least match cascade's effect. I might be wrong though. But overall cascade feels more efficient to use, although we do have the option to run both.
Good to know. Few days ago i got dmg cap with Cascade.
bonus is when you get a writestone with 5+ of it so you only need 1 V+ with Cascade on it :)
As a Cag main, I run both max quick cooldown and cascade to further specialize her signature sigil while retaining dmg cap ofc. Build specially goes online when link time happens and you have perma rotation of pain train>Alexandria>charge atk>pain train>mimic doll>charge and back to pain train. Added benefit is also faster SBA gauge due to skills giving more gauge over X and Y attacks 🎉
As a Cag main too, I realize that Pain Train Damage Cap ceiling is really-really high. Meaning, you can go way above and beyond the power level needed to hit damage cap on other skills and normal attack in order to increase Pain Train damage. My highest right now is 1.6 million damage per Pain Train, which considering its relatively short cooldown, and her signature sigil CD reduction, is really good if you are building her as a DPS.
@@franky6983 aye always prioritize pain train over alexandria/mimic doll> charge atk combos 🤓
I run the same thing on Cagli
Damn the cag rotation got exposed
@@franky6983 woww, i never notice about pain train dmg cap before, so beside the normal&skill dmg cap in overmastery
I should find dmg increase, right?
Great explanation, most of creators just make video without understanding mechanics about game. So your videos are gem
Amazing job! That's pretty informative, than u guy for this amazing video. Can i recommend u guys cheking Drain? I'm actually seeing a lot of people thinking Drain only heals for 500 per hit, even tho I can definetly say that that's not true. If u guys consider doing this analysis, please consider adding Heal Cap up, from sigils and overmastery (as ppl say 500 is the max, they also think they don't add to drain power), and Draining buffs, like Vaseraga and Siegfried have.
Thanks for asking this question on stream! We checked it out and it's a 500 HARD CAP, with no way to improve it with the 'improved healing' trait!
Great, clear and consice video! Hopfully everyone will be on the page with Cascade now. And knowing it works synergies with Supp damage now is very enticing since i like being hyper aggresive (with potion hoader lol)!
amazing explaination and info using facts and math, especially for such a small channel! amazing job
Very good breakdown and well explained, I do however have a question if you see this and can reply. I main Zeta and currently I use quick cool-down at lv16 would it be better to swap it out for cascade or keep the quick cool-down? Zeta sticks to enemy’s like glue so I constantly attack and use all her skills so yeah a reply would be appreciated Ty.
I would say that Zeta skews a bit better with Cascade because she can attack so consistently and avoids a lot of attacks just by doing that. So it's probably better in most cases!
@@TheGameClub awesome will give it a test and see. I did think of a video suggestion (unless it’s been done) Character specific sigils for example Zetas Crimson flight, says you get an extended window for her loop attack but often i don’t see or feel any difference, some are clearly good but is there any breakdown video with the character sigils that are less obviously really good and how they actually do benefit that particular character?
Oh yeah I gave video a like and dropped a sub your channel is very good and I am surprised it hasn’t got way more subscribers but I think that will change very fast tbh
Thanks@@DRAKLOR_44! we have a video coming soon that will cover Supp synergies as well as other sigil information
So for a Tank build Vane: both cascade and quickcool down should be equipped… right?
Gotta agree, cascade been always working.
However, Supp dmg is definitely working for vane sigil. Rampart can be reduced from 175s to 20s just with supp dmg. No quwick CD, no cascade. Its a number that cant be achieved without supp dmg.
Test it out, XXYY with max supp dmg + char sigil , on the dummy. Im pretty sure @rurikhan will agree 🤣
Finally a video explaning this properly, thank you.
Thanks, was wondering how this worked. Very informative, keep up the good work mates.
great guide. Does cascade not have an ICD then? Looks like it will have a very low scaling multiplier on every attack on the enemy based on your testing. Are these multipliers recorded on any sheet? Would be curious to find out who benefits the most from cascade.
Doesn't seem to have an ICD, it just scales suuuuuuuper low for really fast attacks. We don't have any actual multipliers because we're not computer doctors sadly.
@@TheGameClub gotcha. thank you for doing the research!
Great video, one of the first granblue things I've seen that is actually worth watching!
Fantazumagoria! lol
very helpful and quality videos, wish you guys all the best, truly hidden gem channel
Great vid! Knowing that, i think itll be best for me to test out whether cascade or quick cooldown is more effective at the dummy myself based on my playstyle. Thanks!
Never had any problems with cascade personally. Been using cascade & quick cooldown on Narmaya & Katalina, 2 characters i used the most. For Katalina im able to keep Aries on the field indefinitely as long as i have something to hit with my skills and the Aries pact combo. Basically i use Either "Enchanted lands" or "Winters Rain" to summon Aries then the Aries combo > into the skill i didn't use the first time > "Frozen blade" > Aries Combo. By the time im done with the 2nd Aries combo "Enchanted lands" is ready to use because of its low cooldown. Then repeat
Downside is if you dodge or get CC'ed Aries goes away
one thing that would interesting to test is how both Sigils works together
Cooldown Reduction reduces the cd for 20%
meaning the wait time is 80%
does cascade just "adds" and reduces by 2% on the old value so it'll be 78% after the hit, or does Cascade multiplies with the new value, so when it hits, it actually only reduces to 78,4%? (because 2% of 80% is 1,6%) since the cooldown reduction might be considered a new value of cooldown timer for cascade
I would say cascade is 100% considerable since you only take up 1 sigil slot (make it lv 20 with cascade sub wrightstone). I personally use both if im pushing dps and it works quite well. I do have a question, does cascade affect current cooldown or does it affect the cooldown of the skill itself? Example : 100s cooldown skill currently at 80s cooldown. Suppose the cascade value is 2%. Does cascade reduce it by 2% of 80 or 2% of 100?
While I never thought it was broken, the way you've shown how it works makes perfect sense, if cascade worked the way it read out in the first half, Lancelot would be like SSSS tier and super disgusting since he'd be popping off glaciate every few seconds.
Honestly I ended up running both for a while, just cuz I kinda could. Personally I prefer QCD, as while yes getting better will make Cascade more effective overall, oftentimes I find the boss will just… leave, and go attack someone else forcing me to go chase after it. If I have it on a wrightstone or something I’ll usually keep it, it’s never BAD, it’s just I find more often then not either the boss is mobile enough to significantly hurt cascade. Or it’s like Proto baha and you spend so long between most attacks your cooldowns are coming back online regardless,
This question may be stupid at this point but do cooldown reduction and cascade stack? And if they do...is there a limit to it?
Yes. You can also verify this by using a skill then looking at its indicator. Use a long cd skill with cd reduction and you will see it’s blue icon fill up immediately after use. And stacks with cascade. Just not as visible with short 10-15 sec cd skills.
Great vid! Can you do one on Quick Charge? I swear it isnt working, at least when I tried it.
can you clarify if cascade reduces the original cd of the skill or the reduced cd, if you also have quick cooldown?
That's a great question and not easy to test. So we're not totally sure if it's doing the original cool down or the new cool down from Quick cool down, but if I had to guess it's probably from the new cool down
have you tried X X Y Y combo on Vane with cascade and supp? i haven't tested it but it has a very high cascade modifier tied to a lot of hits. people have reported that it fills up 50-90% of his Energy Destruction cooldown instantly (the bug occurs once every 8 seconds or so, for that specific combo)
it's more because of his signature sigil than cascade, vane guide says signature works with supp as well. vane guide also says cascade is bad and those vane mains have done a lot of testing so i trust them more than i trust myself. also hit sir barrold a bit with just cascade and it's just ok. better than no cd reduc but not as consistent as quick cd and not as much as vane signature
Useful info, to the point, nice work !
You are doing god's work. Thanks so much for this video!
Great video , finally answered my question. I thought cascade was bugged. 👍🏻 got a sub
amazing work, thanks for it
just use both Cascade and QC, there is so many slots available anyway as long as you reach endgame where you only need 1 Critrate + Stamina/tyranny sigils +15, 4 damage cap +15 and 3 Supp V +15
Super detailed and informative
I like it!
This is such a good video with great examples.
ahh that's why rackam doesn't CD that quickly when his doing BBRRRT (normal attack using controller with turbo/rapid fire mode). thought i could keep double tap definitely on.
me too. I was at least hoping I could get it down enough where you'd have 30 sec or less of downtime.
he especially could use it since Bulls Eye blast online is bugged atm so perfect timing shot burst is the only other option outside of aerial barrage and i personally dont find that too fun
I think the main benifit of Cascade is it takes 1 sigil slot + wrightstone to cap as opposed to 3 sigil slots for QC.
If people would just comprehend tooltips and/or run a bit of test, we won't need youtubers. Good thing they wouldn't. Seriously though, this game has pretty good testing dummy feature that a lot of other games are lacking, and still misinformation is everywhere. Shows how most people don't bother at all and just want someone to tell them how to do it. Well made vid btw.
I use both Cascade and Quick Cooldown on Katalina. I find spamming skills is the most comfy way to keep Ares.
How about Percival's full charge attacks?
Does SupDam works with Cag's sig?
Does Cascade and Quick cooldown BOTH work together? Or can you only benefit from 1 sigil?
both works
Doesn't Cascade value increase with skills who have longer cooldown ? In this video you have shown us buffs who have around 100+ seconds cooldown which gives you time to attack a lot, but say I have an ability with less than 30 seconds cooldown, I probably wont be able to hit enough to get a 20% reduction before it comes back.
Generally yes there will be a difference in how long you'll be able to work on a particular skill and that will pay off in more seconds gained. But overall you're generally getting value at all times because your skills should always be on cool down so it doesn't really matter it was just to demonstrate that it's working. But it's a great concept to think about
I thought it was pretty obvious how it works.
Anyways, Quick Cooldown needs level 45 to cap, Cascade is only level 20, so it's easier to cap.
Also, some characters like Lancealot just never stop attacking. If you use his dodge skill, it allows him to ignore mechanics where you're not supposed to be near the boss and just keep attacking. Point is, Cascade is not made the same for every character.
Giving me Monster Hunter Math Guys, keep up the great work. Got a sub from me for sure.
Damn dude, the way you ended this is great. I love how open ended you've explained the differences without saying "anything else is a meme". I'm definitely combing through all of your Relink content. Big respect
Why not run both? I have 3x Quick Cooldown as a sub stat and Cascade 15 combined with a lvl 3 (can't get a Lvl 5 Cascade) on a Wrightstone for a lvl 19 total.
A totally fine option
There's no shot that Vane and Charlotta's character sigils don't get increased cooldown reduction when supplementary damage hits. Their cooldowns come back so much faster with Supp damage.
You're right, we're actually going to release a video very soon correcting that and covering the other character.
I like this video cuz I was trying to think of a build for my Rosetta and I want cool down reduction. I see online people are only building supplementary damage damage cap and crit but it seems like most of my DPS comes from my skills. So wouldn't I want skill damage too? And considering how important her skills are to her entire play style. And since her damage are coming from a skills when I want local down also. So I want to get as much cool down as possible. I still want to build for damage and crit. And it sounds still sounds more interesting to me than using supplementary damage. I don't even know what supplementary damage is. I'm not at the end game yet. I'm only on chapter 9. I'm like level 35 or something or 40. I'm not sure I forgot but I just started playing a few days ago and I'm just trying to think of a bill. So far she's the character. I like the most most the other characters I like from shadow first or Grand Blue fantasy. The mobile game aren't in this game yet like the grm chick. There was like this dragon girl that I thought was cool and so if they ever released those characters I might switch. My main Rosetta was another character. I liked a lot. I'm happy she's here and her play style. I like a lot too. I usually like playing summoners in RPGs and her in the chick with the Webster. The two DPS on my team and they're the two I'm going to mean because of their play style
ive seen so many people say cascade is broken but doesnt take time to actually test it to see if it works, can clearly see it works if take time like you guys did to test it but oh well lmao hopefully now people will understand
i wonder how well cascade works with vanes finishers since his unique sigil already gives him cd everytime he lands it
probably the same. Im going to guess cascade is amazing with any character that has a sigil with cd reduction like him and gran/djeeta
Why not both? I run both at lv 16 from v+ sigil
Also obvious with Io, when I first realized this works great. Why not use both btw? Does it cap, haven't tested.
Haven't noticed any capping but I'm sure both of them would work fine together
I really appreciate cygame has a really good character balance design
I love the fact people thought it was broken while it perfectly worked since the beginning 😄
Good for me because the game LOVES giving me this trait on important sigils.
But does is work on rosetta rose's auto attack? (not the one we activate by iron maiden or by the finisher)
We're putting together some information on supplementary damage right now so give us a bit to see if there's enough for a proper video!
i'm a yodorha main and i maxed quick cooldown and cascade because i believe they would both make me use my skills more frequently. after watching this video and see that you guys are choosing between the two. this makes me wonder if maxing both of them a mistake?
No you can totally use them both for even more cooldown reduction!
Good info... tks!
I have 2 quick cooldown dmg caps and a cascade one so i dont have to decide
What about cascade specifically on Rosetta, feels like it doesn’t work especially on her rose attacks. Not to mention how it works with supplementary damage(like vaseraga double dipping?)
Unfortunately Rosetta's roses don't benefit from a lot of sigils. The roses don't work with Cascade, supplementary dmg, drain, concentrated fire (not counted as range), and they don't build up/maintain combo boost effect. Seems to be the rule of thumb with Rosetta is that if it's not coming from her body, the sigils won't work. Example being spiral rose attack coming out of Rosetta will trigger supplementary dmg sigil, but the spiral rose damage from her roses won't benefit.
Now stun damage does work for her roses as they will fill the stun gauge, but hopefully with the new update in March there will be balance changes that will buff Rosetta's roses because Ferry's ghosts pets trigger a lot of sigils and they don't require much management as Rosetta's roses.
One more thing apparently lost love triggers cascade and sup dmg, but I have yet to test that.
@@daviddiaz8339 yeah I had the feeling she was that way but it would be nice for someone to confirm it similar to how it is done in the video here
I would do it myself but I don’t have the extra time
It's not that it's broken, it's that it's crap on multiple characters. My character Rosetta, a heavy ability reliant character has a huge part of her damage coming from her plants (roughly 40%) when her abilities are on cd. I tried it with only my plants, it gave me barely a second of cd with the plants only on lost love a 105 seconds cd (84 with quick cooldown) . That's a measely 1.9% of her cd. If I had a 100% uptime and kept on hitting ennemies I would go from 84 second cooldown to 81 seconds at trait level 12. Yes a 3 whole second of cd for one of the highest cd in the game (so one of the best scaling ability for this trait) and with an optimal dps as much. As I defend cd as one of the most busted stat in any video game this is garbage when you can equip a revive, 15% dmg reduction, 35% more guard or even potions for the same slot in your build.
There's something even better: just equip nimble onslaught, level 15 it's 3.5% of an ability cd, amazing isn't it compared to the 2% of cascade? You also gain sba gage and more invicibility on your perfect dodges and it's way easier to activate since it activates on every perfect dodge and there's no way you are not making a perfect dodge in the same time it take you to get your ability back compared to cascade that is weaker with a way harder activation requirements of basically non stop dps.
i just use both i got max quick cooldown and max cascade just from substats and you can really feel the difference on lancelot
Awesome thanks for the info😮 and plus i sub
Why not both? 😅
I kid of course since slots are limited. Thanks for going through the time and effort testing this! Really useful, plus good to see Cascade is working as intended.
I got plenty of + sigils and wrightstones that have cooldown or cascade. "Both" is so worth it [on Cagliostro.]
It's like the proc coefficient in RoR2
you got my sub lads totally wirth the watch
Why not both?
Does cascade work on rosettas flower attacks tho? 🤔
I would guess not because Supp damage doesn't have interaction, but we've not checked yet!
yes it works, tested it myself weeks ago, but people like to claim some bs that they just believe for no reason
the one thing thats missing is knowing how quick cooldown and cascade stack together, is it multiplicatively or additively
run at least 1 of each personally. if i can fit in extra quick cooldown i do
Thanks for the info, I can't believe I sold all the sigils with cascade subtrait because I just blindly believe everyone who are saying it is broken...
That suuucks, here take a heart as a consolation prize
Cascade is only practical on character who do lots of combo finishers, those seem to have the best modifier
From our findings it seems like Cascade is pretty effective all around. It definitely has a great modifier on finishers but that's because their General modifiers are pretty high
For characters like Ferry, Rackam and Rosetta, cascade is worse than quick cooldown, at lv 20 and non stop attcking on the dummy, it shortens the time less than quick cooldown lv15 which doesn't require the target to sit still, it's nice if you have room for the trait but there's just more useful ones
Thanx
Another banger!
I main Katalina and like to run Cascade instead of Cooldown on her. She has a 20% cooldown reduction built into one of her sigils and Supp built into the other. So while I'm Ares bursting my cooldowns are pretty damn fast.
does her sigil stack with the cooldown reduction sigil?
btw thank you for playing her. I feel like she is underlooked by too many
First of all her sigil says it reduces her cooldowns by 5% with ares active. Second is that I read that that only is active the moment ares comes online and is not all the time while he is active. People recommend not using it and instead get some other useful stat in its place. (Info on the internet is always shoddy so if new findings prove me wrong, then feel free to say so.)
dark hero says it's bugged then he recommended it in the next video 😱
its better to slot in uplift, stun and linked together than cascade.
Sad ... so you can not just run both on chars who you want to spam skills on?
You can totally run both for major cooldown reduction!
I guess as a vane main cascade is better since i get a ton of blocks anyway and dont need to play too safe
Whats the game at the 8:00 minute mark? The game before Zenless Zone Zero?
Both games are Zenless!
The amount of manual test we have to run is fustrating. In game lab should have stuff like this in detail.
I really got lucky that i got 2 dmg cap v+ with cooldown and a dmg cap v+ with cascade🙏🏼
Can't we simply run both Cascade and Quick Cooldown ?
Absolutely!
I feel like it only works with combo finishers. I could be wrong
Near the end of the video we show some testing we did that says 75 seconds without supplementary damage and 72 seconds with. This was done with Cascade and there were no finishers involved, only normal attacks. So we can conclude from there that it's working on all hits
7:58 yo, what is this game please? :)
Zenless Zone Zero
If this the case wouldn’t cascade be godsent on both Lancelot n Charlota since all they do is attack, n regardless of how “small” the CD is, those two attacks fast asf
Very fast, but very low modifier. Cygames made sure to balance it across the board.
Max cascade + ebony poise for unlimited immortal pain.
so instead of making it useless to slow characters they made it almost useless to fast characters and slow characters....
It works really good actually! It's just situational depending on how well you know the boss and what kind of openings/phases there are to deal damage.
@@TheGameClub that is why i used almost, because most situations quick cd is always better than cascade, but i still use it because RNG said i have to use it....
Couple things:
Cascade procs reduce CURRENT cooldown not total cooldown, so make sure to be attacking right after casting skills to get the most value out of it.
Cascade effective cdr numbers are more impressive on skills with longer cooldowns simply because you get more procs while they're on cd, but this is diminished it being only current cd so it's not linear. If you test it on a lower cd skill the effective cdr you get is also lower.
Definitely. It's just easier to show visually and get testing data to confirm it's working with longer cooldown skills.
i have both. life's good
How about Rosetta's flowers?
45 cooldown + 15 cascade its nice
i'm bad so quick cooldown it is
Doesn't balancing Cascade this defeat the purpose of its existence?
so basically another terrible description of a move that we have to research because a hack wrote the original one
quwhick cooohooldown
🤣😭
cant you just run both
You can!