@@kevinsnyder4658 Thats why u have to have a plan of folding if jammed on unless u r versus very wild player or early Tom Dwan. But i prefer just calling here or min clickback fold
Disagree. I don’t need a plan to fold to a shove if I just call. I’ll either lose the minimum by calling with the second nuts against quads, or win the maximum by calling since he can’t call a raise anyway.
If you raise, 99 is the only hand that could pay you off, even AA/KK is probably going to fold. If you get shoved on after that, your second nuts is basically a glorified bluff catcher, he either has the 8 or he has air (what does he expect to get called by if he shoves with 99?). Plus if he would think of doing that with air, he has to wonder if you have the 8 with the raise which makes it a very risky play. If there was a hand he could make the reshove with that you could beat and/or there were more than just only one hand you were targeting, I’d say raise. But in this case, there isn’t, so I would just call.
V is polarized. Either he had an 8x hand like A8ss, 76ss, 86ss, 89ss, maybe K8ss, 99, or a bluff with this PSB. Since the 8x combos outnumber the 99 combos this is a call to me. I just don't see players value betting this much with a naked Jack and TT+ would 3b here preflop. I'd call just on the combos.
@@Pandaval9 Other question is does S have off-suit 8s too given that they are loose and closing the action against a small open 87o and the like can potentially be in range. Regardless though I'm not too concerned with what villain is betting with because I'm not folding here and I don't know if a J is seriously calling a raise.
@@qazzaqstaneven if someone is a calling station who might struggle to fold their Jx to a raise (see Zeebo’s theorem) the question is, are they betting pot with Jx on the river in the first place? That seems too big to be targeting A-highs. Targeting TT exactly seems pretty thin since hero can have 99 plus some slow played 8x.
I’d say if he is a rec player from the straddle closing the action for 30 more, there are way more 8s than that. A lot of recs have full combos of 86o,87o,98o,T8o,J8o,Q8o. In live poker how many of those are you really folding for 30 more against a 50 dollar open closing the action, rec or for-profit?
This seems really nitty, you can get value from 99 and some occasional straddle completes with QQ as a trap (not super likely but it's possible). This is the easiest raise/fold set up in poker.
Checking on the turn is great, so many players float the flop and them try to play fancy and represent something. If V has 22-77 i dont think a card like a 9 at the end changes anything. How often is hero going to have 9x. And how often would hero even bet 9x if he had it, same thing goes for tx. Only Q and K would be bad on river, because A hits our opponents range a lot.
If villain is only calling a raise with pocket nines and always three betting with an eight and folding the rest of their hands , there's no reason to raise. There's three combos of pocket nines and several combos of eights he could have. Being in the straddle there are off suit 8s he could have as well. And by raising you open yourself up to a three bet bluff , as the villain knows or should know that he has a lot more 8s in hiis range , then you do in yours.
I am curious what hands the 3-bet bluff comes from though (granted their is always a chance they decide to be a maniac with any 2 cards) my thought would be something like JdTs (not sure why it would float flop though tbh).
@@Kd4c A lot of those hands should not make the initial bet though (granted again that doesn't mean they won't) I assume the play mostly makes sense with a hand that is value betting and then turns itself into a bluff
wow, if the guy had somehow had case j, or a 9 or best case 99, he stacks the guy and he’s afraid to raise for fear of quad 8’s. if he somehow had an 8 there it’s unfortunate, but doing this a lot is more than a leak, its a flood
this is a spot where you maximize value, raise the river bet easy and if you get 3bet on the river you call it off. You have the second nuts you look forward to raising the river here to get called by worse because $10 $10 $20 players are not all uber wizards like barthalomew is You always go for value here raising river andcalling a 3bet your hand is very strong, no exceptions if you lose to an 8 then reload, your only 200bb deep in a 10-10 game and with the mandatory $20 your only 100bb deep. and yes always bet the turn, Get Value. also you checked turn your underepping your hand and losing value, you have to make it up on the river, this is mostly to the comment sections who say just call river bet, your playing nlhe not plo omaha, but then again why am i coaching this to them.
Nobody’s ever leading quads, that is a 100% trap hand all the time. They’re plenty of boats that would fire the river when checked to. It’s literally impossible to get called by worse Spot so unfortunately a call is our only option.
I don’t think you can r/f here, you’re not that deep… that said the 99 reraise would be lighting money on fire - who can call? (Especially if you’re considering folding the second nuts)
If we loose to quads we loose to quads… 🤷♂️ With the straddle on, its only 100BB eff… I dont play these stakes, so I cant say for sure, but at my $2/5 $500 cap game, I’m just getting it in…
Interesting river decision! As one of those players that thinks they will raise fold and then ends up calling anyways, I guess I lean towards call. Tough one!
Math here is the easiest. If he's bluffing(KQ?) Then he doesn't call a raise. He is equally likely to have a J as an 8. He's also never raising a J. Therefore the move is to raise for value (7-800) and fold to a raise.
I don't think you can call that comment math, when every proposition you've made was an unproven and wrong statement. You don't comapre the ev of calling to the ev of raising - calling vs an 8 doesn't lose you additional money. If villian 3bet bluffs on the river (having for example the suited 79,7a,7k,9a,9k fitting the 4th 8 suit will be the easiest one to find) you lose money by raising and win by calling. I'm not saying raising isn't the move theoretically btw, but what you said there was absolute nothing with essential content to decide raising ver calling
If he 3bet shoves - what hands are in his range besides quads/bluffs? if he overbluff this node, you will win with any boat, if he underbluffs this node you will lose with any boat@@benjamintaylor8665
Haven't seen the reveal yet. Would have raised on the river and called practically any re raise, if he has an 8 so be it. Looks like a lot that he has 99, many people would not raise that hand pre flop.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Disagree with you there, a lot of bad to mediocre players will even re raise an over pair, although an over pair there would be rare because those usually will raise you preflop but sometimes they like to trap also. They never put you on an 8 because you opened pre flop and people over value their "big" hands.
At the river havnt seen the outcome yet but it would be criminal to not raise vs a lead. if your worried about quads in this spot your not playing poker correctly and trying to narrow your opponents range way to much. People dont like folding boats
It's time to go home if your not value betting the jack on the turn. If your scared of being beat your gonna be beat down by bluffs and aggression over the long term . Charles will be in your pocket all night.
I think the turn check is ok… he said hes not checking because hes scared, hes checking to let an Ace high hand possibly catch up. I think that has some merit.
@@mjriemen I would say what is he really scared of ? Any hand that beats you is just a cooler and part of poker . Worrying about your full house getting beat by another full house is just silly .
The reason to x back turn is not fear villain is probably calling way too wide on flop when you bet turn they fold all the bs they floated with when you x back they get to river with all types of air and you get an extra street of value from their air when they bluff you can still bet river if they x and get called by like 77 anyway those hands don’t call 3 streets x back turn is the move
Do you agree with a just call here? Would you be capable of a raise/fold if you went for value and faced a bet/3bet on river?
Seems like very few hands that you beat call a raise on the river. To me it’s not worth the risk of having to call a 3-bet shove.
@@kevinsnyder4658 Thats why u have to have a plan of folding if jammed on unless u r versus very wild player or early Tom Dwan. But i prefer just calling here or min clickback fold
Disagree. I don’t need a plan to fold to a shove if I just call. I’ll either lose the minimum by calling with the second nuts against quads, or win the maximum by calling since he can’t call a raise anyway.
If you raise, 99 is the only hand that could pay you off, even AA/KK is probably going to fold. If you get shoved on after that, your second nuts is basically a glorified bluff catcher, he either has the 8 or he has air (what does he expect to get called by if he shoves with 99?). Plus if he would think of doing that with air, he has to wonder if you have the 8 with the raise which makes it a very risky play. If there was a hand he could make the reshove with that you could beat and/or there were more than just only one hand you were targeting, I’d say raise. But in this case, there isn’t, so I would just call.
Welp, I’ve been playing 1/3 and I’ll tell ya these folk are calling a raise with any pocket pair. I’m 100% putting it in and calling a shove
Big fan of the hero’s check back on the turn & the logic he laid out!
i think a raise to 900 then fold is ok
V is polarized. Either he had an 8x hand like A8ss, 76ss, 86ss, 89ss, maybe K8ss, 99, or a bluff with this PSB. Since the 8x combos outnumber the 99 combos this is a call to me. I just don't see players value betting this much with a naked Jack and TT+ would 3b here preflop. I'd call just on the combos.
89s is impossible with this river
@@Pandaval9 Other question is does S have off-suit 8s too given that they are loose and closing the action against a small open 87o and the like can potentially be in range. Regardless though I'm not too concerned with what villain is betting with because I'm not folding here and I don't know if a J is seriously calling a raise.
Watch any streams lately. Q8 off wouldn't surprise me lol
@@qazzaqstaneven if someone is a calling station who might struggle to fold their Jx to a raise (see Zeebo’s theorem) the question is, are they betting pot with Jx on the river in the first place? That seems too big to be targeting A-highs. Targeting TT exactly seems pretty thin since hero can have 99 plus some slow played 8x.
I’d say if he is a rec player from the straddle closing the action for 30 more, there are way more 8s than that. A lot of recs have full combos of 86o,87o,98o,T8o,J8o,Q8o.
In live poker how many of those are you really folding for 30 more against a 50 dollar open closing the action, rec or for-profit?
No,if I raised and he went all in I wud call because he must be bluffing.
(bluffing a full house?).
This seems really nitty, you can get value from 99 and some occasional straddle completes with QQ as a trap (not super likely but it's possible). This is the easiest raise/fold set up in poker.
hero is a cat for that. im raising all day long and going broke if he has an 8
Checking on the turn is great, so many players float the flop and them try to play fancy and represent something. If V has 22-77 i dont think a card like a 9 at the end changes anything. How often is hero going to have 9x. And how often would hero even bet 9x if he had it, same thing goes for tx. Only Q and K would be bad on river, because A hits our opponents range a lot.
If villain is only calling a raise with pocket nines and always three betting with an eight and folding the rest of their hands , there's no reason to raise.
There's three combos of pocket nines and several combos of eights he could have. Being in the straddle there are off suit 8s he could have as well.
And by raising you open yourself up to a three bet bluff , as the villain knows or should know that he has a lot more 8s in hiis range , then you do in yours.
I am curious what hands the 3-bet bluff comes from though (granted their is always a chance they decide to be a maniac with any 2 cards) my thought would be something like JdTs (not sure why it would float flop though tbh).
@@qazzaqstan It would be a lot of the hands they talked about: Small pocket pairs and ace high.
@@Kd4c A lot of those hands should not make the initial bet though (granted again that doesn't mean they won't)
I assume the play mostly makes sense with a hand that is value betting and then turns itself into a bluff
wow, if the guy had somehow had case j, or a 9 or best case 99, he stacks the guy and he’s afraid to raise for fear of quad 8’s. if he somehow had an 8 there it’s unfortunate, but doing this a lot is more than a leak, its a flood
You'd stack off with a 9 here if the guy put you all in? Pretty fishy
this is a spot where you maximize value, raise the river bet easy and if you get 3bet on the river you call it off. You have the second nuts you look forward to raising the river here to get called by worse because $10 $10 $20 players are not all uber wizards like barthalomew is
You always go for value here raising river andcalling a 3bet your hand is very strong, no exceptions if you lose to an 8 then reload, your only 200bb deep in a 10-10 game and with the mandatory $20 your only 100bb deep. and yes always bet the turn, Get Value.
also you checked turn your underepping your hand and losing value, you have to make it up on the river,
this is mostly to the comment sections who say just call river bet, your playing nlhe not plo omaha,
but then again why am i coaching this to them.
Nobody’s ever leading quads, that is a 100% trap hand all the time. They’re plenty of boats that would fire the river when checked to.
It’s literally impossible to get called by worse Spot so unfortunately a call is our only option.
whats missing is what a desaster it would be if we r/f against 99 on the R
I don’t think you can r/f here, you’re not that deep… that said the 99 reraise would be lighting money on fire - who can call? (Especially if you’re considering folding the second nuts)
River is a clear call. Raising would not do any good. It's a lose/no-win action. R: Only a stronger hand (8X) would call a raise.
luv the vids...keep em coming....sorry but that was the most boring hand ive seen yet, dont let it happen again....hahahhahahahhhahahahahhaha
I think Bart isn’t harsh enough on the turn. Villain is tagged as loose passive and could hold a full house. Bet!
If we loose to quads we loose to quads… 🤷♂️
With the straddle on, its only 100BB eff…
I dont play these stakes, so I cant say for sure, but at my $2/5 $500 cap game, I’m just getting it in…
agree. thesr comments littered with poker players that lack testosterone. its sickening. i am getting it all in 100% of the time.
Would you raise if he didn't use a polar size on the river?
Good check on the turn. Got him to bluff the river
Do you ever take calls from tournament hands?
Haven't seen river yet..I don't think I could fold. Id consider jamming.but prob just call
Interesting river decision! As one of those players that thinks they will raise fold and then ends up calling anyways, I guess I lean towards call. Tough one!
Easy raise on the river.
The comment after the turn Js reverberates with me: "you should either have the best hand, or not".
Just keep 'em coming! You are mad appreciated! 👍
could you send a discount code for your training? or advise where i can locate one
That was very under-welming
What's the rake for 1-3 and 2/5 at Parx?
That reveal left me “ So Unsatisfied “
Math here is the easiest. If he's bluffing(KQ?) Then he doesn't call a raise. He is equally likely to have a J as an 8. He's also never raising a J. Therefore the move is to raise for value (7-800) and fold to a raise.
I don't think you can call that comment math, when every proposition you've made was an unproven and wrong statement. You don't comapre the ev of calling to the ev of raising - calling vs an 8 doesn't lose you additional money. If villian 3bet bluffs on the river (having for example the suited 79,7a,7k,9a,9k fitting the 4th 8 suit will be the easiest one to find) you lose money by raising and win by calling. I'm not saying raising isn't the move theoretically btw, but what you said there was absolute nothing with essential content to decide raising ver calling
you never fold top boat. you just go broke in this spot if he reraises. you can never fold here. its a snap call
If he 3bet shoves - what hands are in his range besides quads/bluffs? if he overbluff this node, you will win with any boat, if he underbluffs this node you will lose with any boat@@benjamintaylor8665
Haven't seen the reveal yet. Would have raised on the river and called practically any re raise, if he has an 8 so be it. Looks like a lot that he has 99, many people would not raise that hand pre flop.
If you call a reraise what are you hoping for? A bluff? No one is reraising 99.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj Disagree with you there, a lot of bad to mediocre players will even re raise an over pair, although an over pair there would be rare because those usually will raise you preflop but sometimes they like to trap also. They never put you on an 8 because you opened pre flop and people over value their "big" hands.
I think its just a call as well. Just as likely to have you beat as he does to have calling.
At the river havnt seen the outcome yet but it would be criminal to not raise vs a lead. if your worried about quads in this spot your not playing poker correctly and trying to narrow your opponents range way to much. People dont like folding boats
The preflop raise seems small, no?
With straddle on you can smaller. Also you dont know what the standard open is. 60 fine too
raise fold river
raise call river nerd
It's time to go home if your not value betting the jack on the turn. If your scared of being beat your gonna be beat down by bluffs and aggression over the long term . Charles will be in your pocket all night.
I think the turn check is ok… he said hes not checking because hes scared, hes checking to let an Ace high hand possibly catch up.
I think that has some merit.
@@mjriemen I would say what is he really scared of ? Any hand that beats you is just a cooler and part of poker . Worrying about your full house getting beat by another full house is just silly .
The reason to x back turn is not fear villain is probably calling way too wide on flop when you bet turn they fold all the bs they floated with when you x back they get to river with all types of air and you get an extra street of value from their air when they bluff you can still bet river if they x and get called by like 77 anyway those hands don’t call 3 streets x back turn is the move