I think the sizing was exact. It's a shove. I know what you're saying about a smaller bet looking less bluffy in live games, and I've used that. But here I just don't see a bluff. It is literally "you have it or you dont" as villian said. It's gotta be for the whole stack or don't make the bet. Perfect sizing.
Maybe V had 2 pair. Perhaps he was saying that to get a read on hero. I personally think players lie more after a hand is over, rather than while they're still holding a live hand. Biggest reason is because if they do call, they need to turn those cards over and show.
I know, the Live properties (Philly and MD) are nice well run rooms and a clean (I wouldn't mind some hot water in the bathrooms). Rivers is where you go when you want a little seediness in your life. Park has too many New Yorkers for my taste.
@@jasonfullerton7763parx has too many wannabe poker pros they’re very annoying. Rivers has too many OMC. Live seems to bring in the most tourists especially when sporting events are going on
That live hack is pretty neat, I think it's best against certain player types that you know. For example if you know your opponent folds to big bets or something similar, then it's super useful. I think in this spot the bluff is very ballsy, the runout basically makes you represent backdoor nut flush, unless it's a triple barrel JJ or 88 for middle set. You don't play other hands this way realistically. I think your opponent should be calling if he has J8 or KJ, maybe K8 as well, even with the backdoor diamond draw coming in because he blocks your other value hands and I think with this line you're bluffing more often than not. So I'd say gg for getting it through but definitely not a great bluff because opponent should call most of the time. His looseness makes him have more one-pair hands but also when he is loose and kind of a weaker player you should not bluff as often. I think I check turn and see the river, if you hit the ace or queen you go for value but if not just check/fold.
As for showing hands, I will show mostly only when I have it. I can think of only one huge bluff I got through that I showed. I know I have a tight image when I had two different players tell me at two different times that I always have it when I bet. That’s exactly what I want them to think.
I think the key with the ace of diamonds is when the diamond comes in you need to bluff a larger size. If the diamond bricks with say a black king you can bluff a smaller size and bet/fold. Or on the very odd time reraise bluff if super deep.
Never bet an amount for more than is necessary to get the result you want. There is zero case for ripping the river, it looks more bluff. 380 river gets the job done and if he shoves you have an out.
Why is it smart for the hero to size so low on their bet after the flop. I felt like it made more sense to bet larger ~100 to squeeze out the other players because the board was so dry.
Well in theory a perfect bluff is getting them to call flop. Turn and fold river so the smaller bet size on flop is good for that. Also with made hands qq kk aa etc the small bet will allow opponent to call down lighter which you want when you have value
generally speaking, when the board is really dry you want to be c-betting very often for a small amount. you want to keep opponents flop ranges wider. this allows you to get value from your good hands and bluff opponents off of their hands on future streets on the correct runouts when you have weaker hands. to take your idea of betting big to a ridiculous extreme, you could overbet bluff jam 20k into a $100 pot on this J42 rainbow flop and they will almost never ever be able to call. youd win the pot instantly almost every time. bc they can only call profitably with like JJ and 44 (maybe 22 and AA too idk). ofc every once in a blue moon theyll show up with the nuts and youll lose 20k so its a very -ev bet overall. as the board gets wetter, you want to be c-betting less frequently but for bigger sizes. because theyll call much more often and have much stronger ranges when they do. so on boards like JT7ss for example, you dont really want to be bluffing your air, but when youve hit the flop really hard you can profitably go like 2/3 or 3/4 pot or even bigger.
Also, I play at Parx two or three times a week, and the Lives room is definitely smaller, but it’s way cleaner-both the bathroom and poker room. The chairs are more comfortable as well. Borgata still has the best room, chips & also the WORST floor ppl 😂
A bit odd that Bart's thinking seemed to change on river. I agree with his first take that not over-betting looks more "value" to most players. Because people often think over-bets are designed for fold equity. Humans do act in ways that are not particularly logical though. Honestly, Villain should be making the same choice here whether the bet is $500 or $830. He also should not be folding 2 pair here either. Unless he had J8, but that hand should have check-jammed turn. If he called from straddle with J4 or J2, he should also jam turn.
Philly Live! Poker room is in no way dirty. The room is actually beautiful aesthetically and newer. And they provide free EV charging! That being said, I still play at Parx 😂
I believe villain had two-pair, but not KJ. Perhaps he had 4-2 suited for bottom two pair. Or 4-8 suited for a turned two-pair. Hero's description of him lends me to believe that.
I believe 4 2 suited here. Based on what caller was saying about him. I don't see any other combo. K J would lead out on river, J 8 would at least lead out and maybe check raise turn with the new diamond draw. 8 4 is just silly.
I don't think villain is lying. No reason to tank if you're not actually considering a call, and if you are considering a call, no reason to lie about your hand if you might have to show it.
The truth is hero is representing a flush . A strong flush so if he believed him he should fold two pair . But i imagine recreationals arent able to do so if it was tagged correctly im not believing he folded top two. Might be mislead in tagging him though.
Folding two pair here seems kind of insane. Like if you took this line with AK or AA it wouldn’t even be that insane to rip it. Not saying that’s necessarily the best line, but it wouldn’t be that crazy for villain to call off with a jack given that we can easily be full of shit as in this case.
Players tend to over fold to me in my local card room. For that reason, when I do bluff, I RARELY ever show. I like everyone thinking I only bet when I have it.
Watched this all way through, and still don’t know what the hack is?! You were up against a stronger hand you thought and you’re praying your shove gets through?! .The overbet is a very risky strategy, there’s many who won’t fold, don’t think it’s a hack exactly…sometimes a smaller bet is more believable
Yea there’s no hack here unless “bet big to make second pair wear kicker fold “ or “the bigger the bet the more they will fold ,usually” 😂😂 Not hacks just common sense
I agree about doubting he had 2 pair. If he had KJ, his hand got infinitely better. Only loses to a set. In which case he was drawing dead after the turn. If he had J8, check raise after turn is the play, especially after the 2nd diamond. Most likely J10 and he was tanking trying to decide if you hit the back door flush, the King hit your over cards, or an absolute bluff.
What do you think about the Hero’s river bet sizing? Do you believe that his opponent folded top two pair on the river?
I can't imagine KJ ever folds here only 100bb effective
I think Villain could have easily had a hand like 4s2s for bottom two-pair with the way hero described him.
I believe opp just had a J and felt he loses to a flush or a rivered K
I think the sizing was exact. It's a shove. I know what you're saying about a smaller bet looking less bluffy in live games, and I've used that. But here I just don't see a bluff. It is literally "you have it or you dont" as villian said. It's gotta be for the whole stack or don't make the bet. Perfect sizing.
Maybe they had 4-2 of diamonds and went from two pair to weak flush at the end? Maybe they had 9-10 and didn't hit the straight they were chasing?
Maybe V had 2 pair. Perhaps he was saying that to get a read on hero. I personally think players lie more after a hand is over, rather than while they're still holding a live hand. Biggest reason is because if they do call, they need to turn those cards over and show.
Rec isn’t folding 2 pair
Went to Philly last summer. I would say of the 3 casinos out that way Live is the nicest. Rivers was the least and Parx was in the middle.
Agreed
Yea I have no idea what this guy is talking about. Rivers is by far the worst of the three
I know, the Live properties (Philly and MD) are nice well run rooms and a clean (I wouldn't mind some hot water in the bathrooms). Rivers is where you go when you want a little seediness in your life. Park has too many New Yorkers for my taste.
@@jasonfullerton7763parx has too many wannabe poker pros they’re very annoying. Rivers has too many OMC. Live seems to bring in the most tourists especially when sporting events are going on
@@LynelBowprob was just agreeing with bart. Answer he was looking for.
Makes sense to fold 2 pair sometimes. Flush and sets out there.
That live hack is pretty neat, I think it's best against certain player types that you know. For example if you know your opponent folds to big bets or something similar, then it's super useful.
I think in this spot the bluff is very ballsy, the runout basically makes you represent backdoor nut flush, unless it's a triple barrel JJ or 88 for middle set. You don't play other hands this way realistically. I think your opponent should be calling if he has J8 or KJ, maybe K8 as well, even with the backdoor diamond draw coming in because he blocks your other value hands and I think with this line you're bluffing more often than not. So I'd say gg for getting it through but definitely not a great bluff because opponent should call most of the time. His looseness makes him have more one-pair hands but also when he is loose and kind of a weaker player you should not bluff as often. I think I check turn and see the river, if you hit the ace or queen you go for value but if not just check/fold.
As for showing hands, I will show mostly only when I have it. I can think of only one huge bluff I got through that I showed. I know I have a tight image when I had two different players tell me at two different times that I always have it when I bet. That’s exactly what I want them to think.
I want to see you and Goone talk about this river all-in bluff concept. There is very interesting disagreement here.
I think the key with the ace of diamonds is when the diamond comes in you need to bluff a larger size. If the diamond bricks with say a black king you can bluff a smaller size and bet/fold. Or on the very odd time reraise bluff if super deep.
First! Love you Bart always appreciate your content
Never bet an amount for more than is necessary to get the result you want. There is zero case for ripping the river, it looks more bluff. 380 river gets the job done and if he shoves you have an out.
Fun recs are never folding 2 pair. They know they're the spot and are reserved to the idea that they're most likely losing money that day / night
The explanation at 12:00 was pretty nonsensical, but you finally got there.
On a straddle from a not so great recreational player every Jack 2 pair is in in play honestly. Their defend rate is 85% if not a little more
Philly live is clean af, rivers is the dirty one
No, l don’t believe him having two pairs.
Why is it smart for the hero to size so low on their bet after the flop. I felt like it made more sense to bet larger ~100 to squeeze out the other players because the board was so dry.
Well in theory a perfect bluff is getting them to call flop. Turn and fold river so the smaller bet size on flop is good for that. Also with made hands qq kk aa etc the small bet will allow opponent to call down lighter which you want when you have value
Because the board is so disconnected it doesn't take much to get players to fold. Plus you leave the pot low so you can bluff it on later streets.
The best bluffs keep players in flop and turn to get them to fold river
generally speaking, when the board is really dry you want to be c-betting very often for a small amount. you want to keep opponents flop ranges wider. this allows you to get value from your good hands and bluff opponents off of their hands on future streets on the correct runouts when you have weaker hands.
to take your idea of betting big to a ridiculous extreme, you could overbet bluff jam 20k into a $100 pot on this J42 rainbow flop and they will almost never ever be able to call. youd win the pot instantly almost every time. bc they can only call profitably with like JJ and 44 (maybe 22 and AA too idk). ofc every once in a blue moon theyll show up with the nuts and youll lose 20k so its a very -ev bet overall.
as the board gets wetter, you want to be c-betting less frequently but for bigger sizes. because theyll call much more often and have much stronger ranges when they do. so on boards like JT7ss for example, you dont really want to be bluffing your air, but when youve hit the flop really hard you can profitably go like 2/3 or 3/4 pot or even bigger.
Smaller bets on flop will entice the fish to raise and basically telegraph their hand.
Also, I play at Parx two or three times a week, and the Lives room is definitely smaller, but it’s way cleaner-both the bathroom and poker room. The chairs are more comfortable as well.
Borgata still has the best room, chips & also the WORST floor ppl 😂
Borgata is for sure the nicest!
A bit odd that Bart's thinking seemed to change on river. I agree with his first take that not over-betting looks more "value" to most players. Because people often think over-bets are designed for fold equity.
Humans do act in ways that are not particularly logical though. Honestly, Villain should be making the same choice here whether the bet is $500 or $830. He also should not be folding 2 pair here either. Unless he had J8, but that hand should have check-jammed turn. If he called from straddle with J4 or J2, he should also jam turn.
I love a good value bet bluff here….if hero had AK or flush betting 250.00 here would seem authentic.
I think villain prob thought he was leading KK the whole way and hit a set on the river. Top set Jams River as well.
Philly Live! Poker room is in no way dirty. The room is actually beautiful aesthetically and newer. And they provide free EV charging! That being said, I still play at Parx 😂
You mean you get played at Parx ;)
It would take a skilled player to fold King Jack there…and to call with it
KJ takes no skill to call with. If you can beat value hands that take this line like AA/AK, you should rarely be folding
I believe villain had two-pair, but not KJ. Perhaps he had 4-2 suited for bottom two pair. Or 4-8 suited for a turned two-pair. Hero's description of him lends me to believe that.
4 8 suited lol
I believe 4 2 suited here. Based on what caller was saying about him. I don't see any other combo. K J would lead out on river, J 8 would at least lead out and maybe check raise turn with the new diamond draw. 8 4 is just silly.
I don't think villain is lying. No reason to tank if you're not actually considering a call, and if you are considering a call, no reason to lie about your hand if you might have to show it.
Me at low stakes =
Villain: if I jammed would you have called?
Me: if you jammed I’m calling even quicker
The truth is hero is representing a flush . A strong flush so if he believed him he should fold two pair . But i imagine recreationals arent able to do so if it was tagged correctly im not believing he folded top two. Might be mislead in tagging him though.
The ROBI
J4
Folding two pair here seems kind of insane. Like if you took this line with AK or AA it wouldn’t even be that insane to rip it. Not saying that’s necessarily the best line, but it wouldn’t be that crazy for villain to call off with a jack given that we can easily be full of shit as in this case.
55556 Royal Landing
huh?
Hero just got lucky here
Moat players call river bet if we beleive he had 2 pair
Players tend to over fold to me in my local card room. For that reason, when I do bluff, I RARELY ever show. I like everyone thinking I only bet when I have it.
This was insane! 🔥 That poker hack really paid off big time. I’m definitely going to try this in my next game. Thanks for sharing the secret! 💰🃏
Watched this all way through, and still don’t know what the hack is?! You were up against a stronger hand you thought and you’re praying your shove gets through?! .The overbet is a very risky strategy, there’s many who won’t fold, don’t think it’s a hack exactly…sometimes a smaller bet is more believable
Yea there’s no hack here unless “bet big to make second pair wear kicker fold “ or “the bigger the bet the more they will fold ,usually” 😂😂
Not hacks just common sense
I have noticed that people on livestreams are playing the Robbi J4 more frequently. Is this happening at lower stakes as well?
Two pair not possible?? There's J4 on the board!!
He probably had K4 of spades.
He prolly has J-8
Nobody sensibly folds two pair here so the shove is a mistake. I don't believe the two pair for a second.
Vocal fry...ugh. 🔊🥛
BART, Nate says Trump is gonna win 😂
I have to say 110 big blind hands are not very interesting.
Ok there Mr big pot poker
I agree about doubting he had 2 pair. If he had KJ, his hand got infinitely better. Only loses to a set. In which case he was drawing dead after the turn. If he had J8, check raise after turn is the play, especially after the 2nd diamond. Most likely J10 and he was tanking trying to decide if you hit the back door flush, the King hit your over cards, or an absolute bluff.