Eric Reeves is an articulate, honest and in my view one of the most intelligent and spiritually enlightened members of the Church I have ever listened too. Given all that, he has the courage to voice his feelings in a very public forum without fear of retribution. I am amazed and thankful for people like him.
Oh, thank you so much! Your heartfelt support of our LGBT brothers and sisters is beautiful. You have inspired me to be more vocal. What a wonderful podcast!
I am so impressed with how well thought out and intelligent these ex-Mormons are in expressing their feelings and the process and difficulty it was and still is for them to leave their religion.
That was very impressive. You don't see many persons with that kind of passion and comnitment. He is a natural-born leader and I wish him the very best.
Gosh Darn, I wish I could speak to this guy one-to -one. I feel for his situation to my very core. And on the amazingly continuous side issues (philosophy major call out!). I would love the chance to just speak to him on a side note. My brother is on his mission, but I fell away from the church a few years ago. And have had to raise two boys away from 'the faith.' There are very few people I would give money to talk to, but this guy is the epitome of what the church once meant to me. An amazing person. You are loved and supported, and you are known, in a way that the church only promises to offer. If you are ever in Portland, you have a friend, regardless of your faith, or your beliefs. Thank you for your ability to think critically - and to be willing to question.
With this New policy from the church, for sure many People are going to walk away. God loves us No matter what you believe or who you decide to love. That is discrimination and God does not discriminate. Thank you Eric for sharing your story.
This courage, integrity, decency, to speak out, and break the shackles of false, self serving, man made religions, is an inspiration to us all. Bravo Eric. Thank you for doing this. The voiceless, the marginalised, the humiliated, the powerless, need people like this to speak for them and help correct what is a foul narrative. I hope more people take inspiration and show their friends who struggle for identity and integrity, that they CAN ....simply....say...enough! I will no longer be affiliated with such repugnance, marginalisation, humiliation and bigotry. This is not us. This is not what our parents, families and communities taught us. I will not be a part of this. Thank you Eric. Thank you
Here is just a portion of Luke 18 vs 15-17: "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for such is the kingdom of God." I encourage others to read the full passage.
+John Booker Your and all Bibles are written by man to justify the inhumanity man has done to other humans. Take responsibility of your own actions bad and good.
+John Booker I can point out several Bible pearls of wisdom involving killing your child if he is bad via stoning. Killing a bread winner for HAVING to work on a Sunday to support his family... And the the stories of allowing the raping of daughters and murder of your first child encouraged by God for the sole purpose of appeasing God is plentiful as well. Also stories of how wrong it is to judge others and other contradictory passages....Why not post those to John?
Eric, you do have your head on very straight, you can see things for what they are, and you are on a path to greater wisdom. Above all, you followed your truth with integrity and honesty, yours is the Moral high ground.
Thank you, Eric--this takes great courage, bigotry, of any stripe, has to be fought against. I am amazed that the Mormon church went to this extreme length--it seems so counter-intuitive considering the amount of attrition due to other issues. It has to be mentioned that as with the church's stance on polygamy, it did not voluntarily change its position, it was forced to in order to gain statehood. Similarly, and I think, even more importantly, the church did not voluntarily allow blacks to have the priesthood--President Jimmy Carter, in 1978, said either stop the discrimination or lose your tax-exempt status--money always talks to this tax-free corporation.
I agree with some of the things that you said, but the "lose your tax-exempt status--money" is misleading at best and because it is based solely on rumor it is a conspiracy theory (regardless of the actual truth). You can show that the Church was pressured to change its position without haven't to go with extremely low evidence claims. That's NOT to say that the LDS Church sponsored BYU wasn't WORRIED about losing their tax status because of the "Bob Jones University v. United States" supreme court case which ruled that UNIVERSITIES could lose their tax status for racial discrimination.
It’s very interesting! I knew it’s really bother me for while. I noticed that the Mormon church has changing and it’s been years to keep changes. Thank you for your speak out!
''Thank you so much for sharing. I was ready to submit my resignation, but now I think, as you said, it will be better to stay and voice my objection.''
After realizing thanks to Mormon Stories and other great people, I finally shared my testimony and at the end I said that "this Sunday will by my last Sunday attending". I have an appointment with my Bishop this following Wednesday to share my SSA. I don't feel comfortable attending anymore knowing the truth, and if I want to find have a SSA relationship I will be banned! It breaks my heart, but I have to do it.
Thank you so much for sharing. I was ready to submit my resignation, but now I think, as you said, it will be better to stay and voice my objection. Bigotry and prejudice should not be part of the true church. I think I've found another person to truly love. God bless. naughting4me
to share my story. my experience with the church concerning my sexually has been a mixed bag. Bishops and wards have been welcoming and warm to me about me being gay. I felt so welcomed by bishop in Dallas, TX that I decided to come out to my whole ward during my talk at sacrament meeting. let's say it didn't go well with some members and some left nasty phone messages. I left the church for 3 and a half years. now I just recently am coming back. since I was gone from the church I married a man and we live together. (we live in the Austin area.) so I went to my local ward and talked to my new bishop. he knows I am gay, married and living with my husband. with all of that his stilled helped us a couple time with rent and with food. The relief president on my ward who also knows was sympathetic towards me and was more than helpful. now I know I may be facing disciplinary court down the road, but I am encouraged the talks I am having with my bishop concerning all of this. I do see people of the church coming around.
So sad, so heart breaking; when you break it down... you realize, that they control and command every aspect of love! Who you love..who your children can or will love... it really makes me think; when they say "families are forever"....or families;"families, it's about time"....😏
The impetus for this is that organized religion is ultimately more of a political group than a spiritual group - politically, the leadership of the church was ENRAGED and DISGUSTED by the government's change of heart on gay marriage and gay parenting and wanted to take a clear action against that.
Wow, I am glad I had a family that supported me developing my own ideas and deciding my own life course. I don't understand parents that constrict the child's personal development by imposing their doctrine. Children afraid to live their own life, because of their family's ideas? How said.
Very heartfelt, thank you. I'm wondering right now how many Mormons, and particularly how many Mormon leaders actually believe that Jesus said, "suffer the little children to come unto me". I'm also wondering if they actually still believe that eight years of age is the age of accountability--the age when a person is capable to decide for THEMSELVES whether to be baptized a member of the Mormon Church or not.
Looking back, I guess I have been very fortunate to surround myself with average "sinner" Mormon members. The best bishop I ever knew reveled in welcoming and recognizing "sinners" within his congregation, always prefacing his remarks by saying "come on in and mingle with all the other sinners, the man who cheated his business partner, the poor sister who drinks coffee on the sly, the young folks caught out past curfew necking and drinking beer...and so on". What he was saying is something that seems to be forgotten in Mormon Church officialdom: the Church community should be a refuge for sinners, and not a whited sepulcher of self-righteousness. I think about it, too, as a waste of talent. This young man has a lot to offer in interacting with the other sinners in the ward. To be shunned by the hierarchy is a real shame! Eric, you are welcome at any time to be my guest, meet my family, and be an esteemed part of my social circle. Yes, I am like every person I know, groping through the "weeds" of life. If you were to proclaim your doubts, that wouldn't bother me in any sense. It merely makes you a true human being, as valuable on every level as even Dr. Nelson and his coterie!
It´s very strange how loveless the "Church of Jesus Christ" has become, when our expectation should be that they honor the lessons of their name giver and become INCLUDERS, rather than EXCLUDERS. I really don´t see how they can keep the first and greatest commandment and justify their actions and decisions.
Listen to me. The most important thing is your happiness. God exists to support you!! There are a lot god in the world. Love your family and your friends. Ignore the enemy.
I love how he said that if every gay member resigned basically they win. It's what I've been trying to do for years. I stayed in the church hopefully to give those members who might not know any other gay person, to help humanize gays in the church. If I left how does that help change things. All though it might have been easier.
"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." How can the church consider itself Christian? I left some years ago over historical and other issues, but this one really floored me.
“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.” ― Brigham Young
That quote makes me wonder if Brigham Young was hoping that members of the Church would see his doctrines (racism against blacks, blood atonement, polygamy as practiced in Utah, and etc.) as they are: "philosophy of man mingled with scripture." Like a criminal who becomes sloppy. What do you think?
I think its ironic that most active church members today have fallen into the exact trap described in the B. Young quote, blindly accepting the actions of church leaders without questioning whether they are truly inspired of god. I think that the power structure of the church leaves no room for dissent, and no real voice for the members to express their legitimate concerns.
My testimonies my part two I began searching for a Church which taught we are saved by Christ's grace through faith and where saving faith is a verb not a noun nor a one time event. I continued reading and studying my scriptures. In John the Bible proclaims " in the beginning was the word" ; the Bible also testifies " there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism, " . All of these Christian Churches teaching opposing interpretations could not all be correct nor true. It is a factual impossibility . Christ said " I am the way, the truth , and the life" . I was 28 and working as a salesman. I visited hundreds of homes biweekly selling food. A few of the families began to stand out to me. They demonstrated the fruits of righteousness, of following Christ. No drinking alcohol, no smoking, purity until marriage, education was stressed ,no cussing nor inappropriate movies , keeping the Lord's day Holy, tithing, strong families built on love and Christ's teachings. Finally, I asked each family ,one after the other what there secret was? Each of them were Mormon families. Impossible, I thought ! I was taught by Catholics and Baptists the Mormon Church was a cult ! How could a cult demonstrate the fruits of righteousness? It didn't make sense. I like to study religions so asked how I could learn more about there faith and Church? They were excited to say the least. They set me up with a couple of their Missionaries . In our first meeting they taught me about Joseph Smith and his first vision where he saw Jesus Christ standing on the right hand of His Father. Two separate personages . Jesus was in the express image of His Father as Hebrews declares. To my surprise I had no problem with what they were teaching . I felt at peace. After all Stephan ,when he was being stoned ,looked up and saw Jesus standing on the right hand of the power on high. Moses spoke to the Lord face to face as a man speaks to a friend. Jesus said he would be on the right hand of the Father in eternity. The Bible declares God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and God is not the author of confusion. This vision was brought about by Joseph Smith reading in the Bible from James 1 vs 5 " if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not but let him ask in faith and it shall be given him." Ask God directly, having faith in Christ , amazing! God keeps His promises!! Right! Then it happened . The Elders said they were glad I was soaking up what they were teaching but I needed to gain a Spirit born testimony . Simply deciding the LDS Church was true was not enough . They showed me in the back of the Book of Mormon a similar promise from God as was-in James. It said to study the Book of Mormon and then ask Heavenly Father , having faith in Christ , with real intent , if the words of the book are true and through the power of the Holy Spirit I would know it was true directly from God. They said I could know the truth of all things through the Holy Spirit. The Bible proclaims this and so does the Book of Mormon. I could know all of the Churches teachings were true using God's system. I had never been taught in the Catholic nor the Baptist Churches I could take their interpretations directly to God and through the power of the Holy Ghost I would know they were true. In fact I was taught an objective process instead of a subjective process. I was determined to place my faith directly in Heavenly Father , having faith in Christ. I was about half way through the Book of Mormon when God answered my sincere prayers. I had been fasting and praying with real intent . All of the sudden my soul was filled with the most divine feeling of God's love and God did brand His truth on my heart. God's presence poured down upon me and was within me. As Jeremiah described ,the word of the God was as fire in my bones. I knew the Book of Mormon was true . I knew Joseph Smith was a Prophet . I knew the LDS Church was true. As sure as Moses's experience with the burning bush and the great I AM . I knew and will always know. The Holy Ghost testified to me with power and love. I have since come across another scripture in the Bible commanding us to go directly to God for our testimonies. Isaiah 8 vs 19-20 Should not a people go to their God ? For the living to the dead ? To the law and the testimony ? If they teach not this it is because there is no light in them. Brothers and sisters I testify to you " the LDS Church is true, the Book of Mormon is God's word as is the Bible; as long as it is interpreted correctly, Joseph Smith was a Prophet called of God and Christ Church is led by a Prophet today, I testify marriage can be forever as families can be forever, procreation can be forever. God did not command you get married and be fruitful and multiply to take this most wonderful blessing from you at death. God hates divorce . Why would He divorce everyone? I testify Heavenly Father lives and loves you ! Jesus is the Christ! He lives and loves you ! They promise to answer your sincere prayer . "Saved by grace through faith " I leave my testimony with you in the name of Jesus Christ ! Amen The Wilder family and most of the other x Mormon's simply never had the humility nor faith to gain a Spirit born testimony of the LDS Church nor of the Book of Mormon. They , like many other Mormon's who grow up in the LDS Church ,assume they have a Spirit born testimony without ever fasting and praying and gaining one. They never really understood Christ's atonement and continue not to understand it to this day. "We are saved by Christ's grace through faith" . We do our best to keep God's commandments all of the time and draw closer to Him through our obedience and Christ saves us all the while as we seek to live after the Spirit and not the flesh. Christ did not suffer so horribly to change God's commandments into mere nice ideas we can pick and choose from. Our relationship with Christ has everything to do with what we do for Him and what He does for us as we walk hand in hand. God's commandments are His plan for our happiness . Fast and pray and you can know this is true through the Spirit of truth. You can know the truth of all things through His Spirit of truth. The Spirit testifies with love and power. You will know , not merely believe. Love y'all !!!
It's significant to me that Joseph Smith claimed that he was restoring the church and then, when his followers have second thoughts about his veracity and leave the church, they don't seem to go back to the original "unrestored" Christian church, they seem to drop all Christian beliefs. It's as though if they can't believe Smith, they're not going to believe Christ either. I would have to say, therefore, that Mormonism was never Christian and that Joseph Smith was not restoring a church, but destroying it.
Fear is what makes our faith weak. Love overcomes fear. We just had a baptism a young man with the support of his mom and girlfriend. As I spoke in front of them I felt the spirit that they are family and knew this young man would bless many. I don't know about how things will happen between the mom and her friend, but that is their decision. I know he was a good example. I just know God loved all of them and I felt that and the people there felt it too.
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding this. So help me out please. I understand the controversy between whether or not same sex people are born with same sex attraction or whether it's developed sometime in their lives (what's the latest understanding on this?). What I'm seeing here is we somehow think in terms of a democracy (putting pressure on church leaders to get them to change their position). The Lord's church is not a democracy, the Lord is a King (A righteous King is always better than a democracy, reference Mosiah 29:12,13). His judgement is always in his children's best interest. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for Christ's atoning sacrifice our lives would be completely meaningless. So if our leaders are following the will of Christ, what safer hands could we be in? No matter the outcome of any of his decisions (it's a foregone conclusion that it will be correct), since we cannot always see with the perfection that Christ does (As in the trials of faith given to Abraham with Isaac as well as his polygamy). So in my understanding, either we don't trust our leaders prophetic link to Christ or we don't trust Christ. This, of course is the very definition of apostasy. Any thoughts? This is my honest opinion but I really am trying to understand your point of view.
Why would you want to go to a church or belong to a church; that doesn't want you? You don't shop where you don't like, you choose a college you like, why go to a church that doesn't want you. It's Christ! You go to church to learn of Christ.
If you REALLY THINK THIS "POLICY" thro' to its bottom line, what do think you will find on THE BOTTOM LINE? Surely, it doesn't need to be spelled out today, 2 June 2023.
+Cris Ramirez I think no one in today's clueless world should be baptized at age 8 - maybe in the old days they did enough real world labor by that age to get a vague feel for reality, but today I don't think the average 8 year old has any idea what baptism is about, nor the seriousness of the promises made by doing it.
James Everett Yes. I was baptized at 8, in a regular Christian church, and I barely remember it. It held no spiritual significance to me, I feel like I was robbed of the experience. I've actually considered being baptized again, now, so it would mean something to me. I didn't encourage either of my kids to be baptized, much to my mother's horror, for this very reason. I want them to do it when they're ready, at a time when it will be memorable and significant and of their own volition.
Eric, can I ask if you are the youngest of the five sons in your family? You're dealing with so much, but thank God for your close, loving siblings and parents. I can see this has taken something out of you, for you are a thinker by temperament. Do take care of yourself; it must be so wearying for you at times dealing with the tension of your family values and your philosophical import.
Hillary Clinton and Obama oppose gay marriage in 2004 so I would assume most of our culture at that time did. This is what I feel is prophetic when the proclamation of the family comes out in 1995 because the media starts to try to normalize gays and gay marriage in the 90's beginning with Ellen season 4 1997 and starting Will and Grace 1998. In 20 years and another generation the culture has changed. But marriage is ordained of God between a man and women D &C 49:15-16. Paul said we should beware lest any man should spoil you through philosophy. If this is Christ's church man can't change it but man has the option to make his own or join another church.
I wish he would just fucking say it and this interviewer stops him when he finally gets substance and the interviewer asks "and what year was this"? So frustrating.
The Mormon Church....saved my life! I'm sad to see others spend their time and energy hating, when they could be productive in something that they love. We are all at different levels. No one is perfect. I believe in the word's of Christ, that we love one an other.
Christ did indeed call us to LOVE!!! So tell me, how is the lds showing love to homosexuals and their children? They are NOT! What happen to we are punished for our own sins and not Adams transgressions? These children are being punished for what their parents have chosen..how is that love? and even at 18 if they support their parents and love them they can't be baptized unless they disavow their parents...yup that's love.
Wow! You picked the wrong time to reply.....my little daughter is deathly ill. And fighting for her life. But I will reply... I never said any church could tell you how to live. That's with in your on self. If what you are doing makes you happy then go for it. The LDS faith makes me happy.
As well as being inherent.....I know someone who is very close to me that was tired of being hurt by the opposite sex so decided to try same sex relationships. Many many of these people who everyone thinks have these inherent tendencies..... are making conscious decisions to try same sex relationships because it's becoming so accepted.
"Many many of these people who everyone thinks have these inherent tendencies..... are making conscious decisions to try same sex relationships " ... says you, because you supposedly know one person who alleged to have changed their sexuality. Sure, sounds very convincing.
Sorry swiftset.....I know many people who have made a conscious choice. Many of the partners of the people I know who have made a conscious choice have also made the conscious choice. I was just saying that not everyone has the inherent tendency toward same sex attraction. If you choose to ignore the facts...that's up to you. You might want to be more open minded and not stereotype all gay/lesbians.
+Susan York The only person I'm stereotyping is you : your attempt to position homosexuality as a choice that people make after being hurt is a classic sign of passive aggressive homophobia. You know, the old love the sinner, but hate the sin bull. Waiting for you to drop that shoe. Also, I love how you responded: I said you are not qualified to speak for 'many' homosexuals on the basis of one unlikely supposed acquaintance of yours, then you made up more unlikely acquaintances (why would you only mention one the first time around, when apparently you're swimming in a pool of people who can switch their sexual orientation at will?). Then you accused *me* of stereotyping. Ironic, much?
Sorry, I am not a homophobe. And, I didn't say that all homosexuals are making that choice. Loving others doesn't depend on their sexual orientation, however, the gay community seems to think that their sexual orientation comes first above who they are as people. Disagree totally with that line of thinking. My own daughter is one of the people I know that has made a conscious choice to date same sex and possibly marry same sex one day.. She's 36. She never had that tendency before. She's tired of being hurt by men and so are many of the partners she's had. And, yes, you are steretyping me as a homophobe. I do not appreciate that.
It took 25 minutes to find out where this was going. Was this planned? I agree with him wholeheartedly. I have gay family and friends but almost quit listening because it seemed so rambling
There is no dual life about it. No black sheep....choices you make that don't go along with the teachings of the church are subject to disciplinary action, period. My ex husband wanted to live polygamy...same exact thing.
I suppose I struggle more with the idea that the laws of the USofA dictate how the Church is to govern the rest of the world; not just the souls of now, but in the future, other worlds, and all eternity. 'Tis extreme of me to say so, but I'm tired of USA telling the universe how to live their lives (more from a religious viewpoint). Okay, I've had my break, time to head back into the next session...
+David J So... ummm... How exactly is same sex marriage the USA telling anyone how to live their lives? It is the exact opposite. Also, the church doesn't govern any of the world (thank any and all divine beings of any kind). The US isn't even telling the church what it can do at this point. Do you have any idea how the world works at all?
+trueinar - I'd be surprised if there are many people out there with any idea on how the world works. It is just far too complicated to govern any rational understanding. I invite you to re-read my statement, and carefully understand that I am speaking from the perspective of the LDS church, not as a generalisation for all of USA vs World contexts. I find that changing laws in the USA will dictate changes in Church policy, teachings, and 'how things are done'. Here is Australia, we don't have same-sex marriage and yet members of the LDS Church in Australia are being told how to govern such concepts, which generate some friction due to cultural thinking and local laws. Because of this I see much of what happens in the USofA - holding less membership than the 'rest of the world' - as a pre-cursor on general LDS administration. You don't see this, would I be correct?
Proclomation to the World on the Family?! This was given to us because of the very issues you are speaking about. Same thing goes for children of polygamy parents. Nothing different. My family is affected directly because of this policy but I still support it. It's very very sad.
Eric explains very clearly in this video the difference between this policy and the policy regarding children of polygamist parents. You didn't watch the video. I mean, it's long, true. But have a listen.
He may explain what he thinks it says. My ex husband decided that he wanted to have more wives after we had been married for 28 years. I left after being married for thirty. I know how the polygamist situation is handled...first hand....I did watch the video, in it's entirity. Not sure why you think I didn't.
Brave and caring man. Would like to hear more from him 4 years later on this topic
Eric Reeves is an articulate, honest and in my view one of the most intelligent and spiritually enlightened members of the Church I have ever listened too. Given all that, he has the courage to voice his feelings in a very public forum without fear of retribution. I am amazed and thankful for people like him.
Oh, thank you so much! Your heartfelt support of our LGBT brothers and sisters is beautiful. You have inspired me to be more vocal. What a wonderful podcast!
I am so impressed with how well thought out and intelligent these ex-Mormons are in expressing their feelings and the process and difficulty it was and still is for them to leave their religion.
Awesome job Eric, I loved the words " it's no longer acceptable to be silent".
Thank you, Eric Reeves, for your courage, clarity and strength of character.
That was very impressive. You don't see many persons with that kind of passion and comnitment. He is a natural-born leader and I wish him the very best.
Gosh Darn, I wish I could speak to this guy one-to -one. I feel for his situation to my very core. And on the amazingly continuous side issues (philosophy major call out!). I would love the chance to just speak to him on a side note. My brother is on his mission, but I fell away from the church a few years ago. And have had to raise two boys away from 'the faith.' There are very few people I would give money to talk to, but this guy is the epitome of what the church once meant to me. An amazing person. You are loved and supported, and you are known, in a way that the church only promises to offer. If you are ever in Portland, you have a friend, regardless of your faith, or your beliefs. Thank you for your ability to think critically - and to be willing to question.
With this New policy from the church, for sure many People are going to walk away. God loves us No matter what you believe or who you decide to love. That is discrimination and God does not discriminate.
Thank you Eric for sharing your story.
This courage, integrity, decency, to speak out, and break the shackles of false, self serving, man made religions, is an inspiration to us all.
Bravo Eric. Thank you for doing this. The voiceless, the marginalised, the humiliated, the powerless, need people like this to speak for them and help correct what is a foul narrative.
I hope more people take inspiration and show their friends who struggle for identity and integrity, that they CAN ....simply....say...enough! I will no longer be affiliated with such repugnance, marginalisation, humiliation and bigotry. This is not us. This is not what our parents, families and communities taught us. I will not be a part of this.
Thank you Eric. Thank you
Here is just a portion of Luke 18 vs 15-17: "Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for such is the kingdom of God."
I encourage others to read the full passage.
+John Booker Your and all Bibles are written by man to justify the inhumanity man has done to other humans. Take responsibility of your own actions bad and good.
Harry Potter has better quotes. The bible is a horrible place to get your social policies morality from.
+John Booker No.
+John Booker I can point out several Bible pearls of wisdom involving killing your child if he is bad via stoning.
Killing a bread winner for HAVING to work on a Sunday to support his family...
And the the stories of allowing the raping of daughters and murder of your first child encouraged by God for the sole purpose of appeasing God is plentiful as well.
Also stories of how wrong it is to judge others and other contradictory passages....Why not post those to John?
Eric, you do have your head on very straight, you can see things for what they are,
and you are on a path to greater wisdom.
Above all, you followed your truth with integrity and honesty, yours is the Moral high ground.
Thank you, Eric--this takes great courage, bigotry, of any stripe, has to be fought against. I am amazed that the Mormon church went to this extreme length--it seems so counter-intuitive considering the amount of attrition due to other issues.
It has to be mentioned that as with the church's stance on polygamy, it did not voluntarily change its position, it was forced to in order to gain statehood. Similarly, and I think, even more importantly, the church did not voluntarily allow blacks to have the priesthood--President Jimmy Carter, in 1978, said either stop the discrimination or lose your tax-exempt status--money always talks to this tax-free corporation.
I agree with some of the things that you said, but the "lose your tax-exempt status--money" is misleading at best and because it is based solely on rumor it is a conspiracy theory (regardless of the actual truth). You can show that the Church was pressured to change its position without haven't to go with extremely low evidence claims. That's NOT to say that the LDS Church sponsored BYU wasn't WORRIED about losing their tax status because of the "Bob Jones University v. United States" supreme court case which ruled that UNIVERSITIES could lose their tax status for racial discrimination.
This young man is SO brave.. I felt awful about this policy and began questioning " the brothern".. Does anyone know what has happened with Eric???
It’s very interesting! I knew it’s really bother me for while. I noticed that the Mormon church has changing and it’s been years to keep changes. Thank you for your speak out!
This man is my new hero!! This is true strength.
''Thank you so much for sharing. I was ready to submit my resignation, but now I think, as you said, it will be better to stay and voice my objection.''
A very powerful message Eric thanks for sharing.
After realizing thanks to Mormon Stories and other great people, I finally shared my testimony and at the end I said that "this Sunday will by my last Sunday attending". I have an appointment with my Bishop this following Wednesday to share my SSA. I don't feel comfortable attending anymore knowing the truth, and if I want to find have a SSA relationship I will be banned! It breaks my heart, but I have to do it.
Well stated, and very profound. Bless you.
Thank you so much for sharing. I was ready to submit my resignation, but now I think, as you said, it will be better to stay and voice my objection. Bigotry and prejudice should not be part of the true church. I think I've found another person to truly love. God bless. naughting4me
What a great interview and we all stand up together to make it a better life for the same sex marriage.
Step away from ALL religions, if the leaders of them teach and preach hate!!!!!
to share my story. my experience with the church concerning my sexually has been a mixed bag. Bishops and wards have been welcoming and warm to me about me being gay. I felt so welcomed by bishop in Dallas, TX that I decided to come out to my whole ward during my talk at sacrament meeting. let's say it didn't go well with some members and some left nasty phone messages. I left the church for 3 and a half years. now I just recently am coming back. since I was gone from the church I married a man and we live together. (we live in the Austin area.) so I went to my local ward and talked to my new bishop. he knows I am gay, married and living with my husband. with all of that his stilled helped us a couple time with rent and with food. The relief president on my ward who also knows was sympathetic towards me and was more than helpful. now I know I may be facing disciplinary court down the road, but I am encouraged the talks I am having with my bishop concerning all of this. I do see people of the church coming around.
Awesome Interview!!
So sad, so heart breaking; when you break it down... you realize, that they control and command every aspect of love! Who you love..who your children can or will love... it really makes me think; when they say "families are forever"....or families;"families, it's about time"....😏
The impetus for this is that organized religion is ultimately more of a political group than a spiritual group - politically, the leadership of the church was ENRAGED and DISGUSTED by the government's change of heart on gay marriage and gay parenting and wanted to take a clear action against that.
Wow, I am glad I had a family that supported me developing my own ideas and deciding my own life course. I don't understand parents that constrict the child's personal development by imposing their doctrine. Children afraid to live their own life, because of their family's ideas? How said.
Very heartfelt, thank you. I'm wondering right now how many Mormons, and particularly how many Mormon leaders actually believe that Jesus said, "suffer the little children to come unto me". I'm also wondering if they actually still believe that eight years of age is the age of accountability--the age when a person is capable to decide for THEMSELVES whether to be baptized a member of the Mormon Church or not.
Tim Greenhalgh a child's brain waves change at the age of 8 to adult brain waves you're welcome to Google it if you like.
Looking back, I guess I have been very fortunate to surround myself with average "sinner" Mormon members. The best bishop I ever knew reveled in welcoming and recognizing "sinners" within his congregation, always prefacing his remarks by saying "come on in and mingle with all the other sinners, the man who cheated his business partner, the poor sister who drinks coffee on the sly, the young folks caught out past curfew necking and drinking beer...and so on". What he was saying is something that seems to be forgotten in Mormon Church officialdom: the Church community should be a refuge for sinners, and not a whited sepulcher of self-righteousness. I think about it, too, as a waste of talent. This young man has a lot to offer in interacting with the other sinners in the ward. To be shunned by the hierarchy is a real shame! Eric, you are welcome at any time to be my guest, meet my family, and be an esteemed part of my social circle. Yes, I am like every person I know, groping through the "weeds" of life. If you were to proclaim your doubts, that wouldn't bother me in any sense. It merely makes you a true human being, as valuable on every level as even Dr. Nelson and his coterie!
It´s very strange how loveless the "Church of Jesus Christ" has become, when our expectation should be that they honor the lessons of their name giver and become INCLUDERS, rather than EXCLUDERS. I really don´t see how they can keep the first and greatest commandment and justify their actions and decisions.
Listen to me. The most important thing is your happiness. God exists to support you!!
There are a lot god in the world. Love your family and your friends. Ignore the enemy.
Well said.
I love how he said that if every gay member resigned basically they win. It's what I've been trying to do for years. I stayed in the church hopefully to give those members who might not know any other gay person, to help humanize gays in the church. If I left how does that help change things. All though it might have been easier.
"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God." How can the church consider itself Christian? I left some years ago over historical and other issues, but this one really floored me.
“I am more afraid that this people have so much confidence in their leaders that they will not inquire for themselves of God whether they are led by him. I am fearful they settle down in a state of blind self security. Let every man and woman know, by the whispering of the Spirit of God to themselves, whether their leaders are walking in the path the Lord dictates, or not.”
― Brigham Young
That quote makes me wonder if Brigham Young was hoping that members of the Church would see his doctrines (racism against blacks, blood atonement, polygamy as practiced in Utah, and etc.) as they are: "philosophy of man mingled with scripture." Like a criminal who becomes sloppy. What do you think?
I think its ironic that most active church members today have fallen into the exact trap described in the B. Young quote, blindly accepting the actions of church leaders without questioning whether they are truly inspired of god. I think that the power structure of the church leaves no room for dissent, and no real voice for the members to express their legitimate concerns.
MOST PEOPLE WILL BETRAY ANYONE
Good on you Eric!
PS you are a fantastic ally - this is EXACTLY what an ally should be.
Keep fighting!
WE ARE CHRIST'S FAMILY. NO OUTSIDERS WILL EVER ENTER OUR TEMPLE.
Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to them.
My testimonies my part two
I began searching for a Church which taught we are saved by Christ's grace through faith and where saving faith is a verb not a noun nor a one time event. I continued reading and studying my scriptures. In John the Bible proclaims " in the beginning was the word" ; the Bible also testifies " there is one Lord, one faith, and one baptism, " . All of these Christian Churches teaching opposing interpretations could not all be correct nor true. It is a factual impossibility . Christ said " I am the way, the truth , and the life" .
I was 28 and working as a salesman. I visited hundreds of homes biweekly selling food. A few of the families began to stand out to me. They demonstrated the fruits of righteousness, of following Christ. No drinking alcohol, no smoking, purity until marriage, education was stressed ,no cussing nor inappropriate movies , keeping the Lord's day Holy, tithing, strong families built on love and Christ's teachings. Finally, I asked each family ,one after the other what there secret was? Each of them were Mormon families.
Impossible, I thought ! I was taught by Catholics and Baptists the Mormon Church was a cult ! How could a cult demonstrate the fruits of righteousness? It didn't make sense. I like to study religions so asked how I could learn more about there faith and Church? They were excited to say the least. They set me up with a couple of their Missionaries . In our first meeting they taught me about Joseph Smith and his first vision where he saw Jesus Christ standing on the right hand of His Father. Two separate personages . Jesus was in the express image of His Father as Hebrews declares. To my surprise I had no problem with what they were teaching . I felt at peace. After all Stephan ,when he was being stoned ,looked up and saw Jesus standing on the right hand of the power on high. Moses spoke to the Lord face to face as a man speaks to a friend. Jesus said he would be on the right hand of the Father in eternity. The Bible declares God is the same yesterday, today, and forever and God is not the author of confusion. This vision was brought about by Joseph Smith reading in the Bible from James 1 vs 5 " if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not but let him ask in faith and it shall be given him." Ask God directly, having faith in Christ , amazing!
God keeps His promises!! Right!
Then it happened . The Elders said they were glad I was soaking up what they were teaching but I needed to gain a Spirit born testimony . Simply deciding the LDS Church was true was not enough . They showed me in the back of the Book of Mormon a similar promise from God as was-in James. It said to study the Book of Mormon and then ask Heavenly Father , having faith in Christ , with real intent , if the words of the book are true and through the power of the Holy Spirit I would know it was true directly from God. They said I could know the truth of all things through the Holy Spirit. The Bible proclaims this and so does the Book of Mormon. I could know all of the Churches teachings were true using God's system.
I had never been taught in the Catholic nor the Baptist Churches I could take their interpretations directly to God and through the power of the Holy Ghost I would know they were true. In fact I was taught an objective process instead of a subjective process.
I was determined to place my faith directly in Heavenly Father , having faith in Christ. I was about half way through the Book of Mormon when God answered my sincere prayers. I had been fasting and praying with real intent . All of the sudden my soul was filled with the most divine feeling of God's love and God did brand His truth on my heart. God's presence poured down upon me and was within me. As Jeremiah described ,the word of the God was as fire in my bones. I knew the Book of Mormon was true . I knew Joseph Smith was a Prophet . I knew the LDS Church was true. As sure as Moses's experience with the burning bush and the great I AM . I knew and will always know. The Holy Ghost testified to me with power and love.
I have since come across another scripture in the Bible commanding us to go directly to God for our testimonies.
Isaiah 8 vs 19-20
Should not a people go to their God ? For the living to the dead ? To the law and the testimony ?
If they teach not this it is because there is no light in them.
Brothers and sisters I testify to you " the LDS Church is true, the Book of Mormon is God's word as is the Bible; as long as it is interpreted correctly, Joseph Smith was a Prophet called of God and Christ Church is led by a Prophet today, I testify marriage can be forever as families can be forever, procreation can be forever. God did not command you get married and be fruitful and multiply to take this most wonderful blessing from you at death. God hates divorce . Why would He divorce everyone?
I testify Heavenly Father lives and loves you ! Jesus is the Christ! He lives and loves you ! They promise to answer your sincere prayer . "Saved by grace through faith " I leave my testimony with you in the name of Jesus Christ ! Amen
The Wilder family and most of the other x Mormon's simply never had the humility nor faith to gain a Spirit born testimony of the LDS Church nor of the Book of Mormon. They , like many other Mormon's who grow up in the LDS Church ,assume they have a Spirit born testimony without ever fasting and praying and gaining one. They never really understood Christ's atonement and continue not to understand it to this day. "We are saved by Christ's grace through faith" .
We do our best to keep God's commandments all of the time and draw closer to Him through our obedience and Christ saves us all the while as we seek to live after the Spirit and not the flesh. Christ did not suffer so horribly to change God's commandments into mere nice ideas we can pick and choose from. Our relationship with Christ has everything to do with what we do for Him and what He does for us as we walk hand in hand. God's commandments are His plan for our happiness . Fast and pray and you can know this is true through the Spirit of truth. You can know the truth of all things through His Spirit of truth. The Spirit testifies with love and power. You will know , not merely believe. Love y'all !!!
It's significant to me that Joseph Smith claimed that he was restoring the church and then, when his followers have second thoughts about his veracity and leave the church, they don't seem to go back to the original "unrestored" Christian church, they seem to drop all Christian beliefs. It's as though if they can't believe Smith, they're not going to believe Christ either. I would have to say, therefore, that Mormonism was never Christian and that Joseph Smith was not restoring a church, but destroying it.
It really isn’t a church, nor should be called a church, it’s an organisation, institution, business.
MOST MEN WILL BETRAY BEST FRIENDS
As an ex-mo this is so weird. And I was eventually a convert and believed, But something clicked. I left in 2010 I think.
THE POINT IS THAT YOU WORRY ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE TOO MUCH
WE NEED TO COMPREHEND JUST WHERE WE WERE BRAINWASHED IN THE FIRST GRADE OF SCHOOL
Fear is what makes our faith weak. Love overcomes fear. We just had a baptism a young man with the support of his mom and girlfriend. As I spoke in front of them I felt the spirit that they are family and knew this young man would bless many. I don't know about how things will happen between the mom and her friend, but that is their decision. I know he was a good example. I just know God loved all of them and I felt that and the people there felt it too.
I'm sorry, I'm not understanding this. So help me out please. I understand the controversy between whether or not same sex people are born with same sex attraction or whether it's developed sometime in their lives (what's the latest understanding on this?). What I'm seeing here is we somehow think in terms of a democracy (putting pressure on church leaders to get them to change their position). The Lord's church is not a democracy, the Lord is a King (A righteous King is always better than a democracy, reference Mosiah 29:12,13). His judgement is always in his children's best interest. As a matter of fact, if it weren't for Christ's atoning sacrifice our lives would be completely meaningless.
So if our leaders are following the will of Christ, what safer hands could we be in? No matter the outcome of any of his decisions (it's a foregone conclusion that it will be correct), since we cannot always see with the perfection that Christ does (As in the trials of faith given to Abraham with Isaac as well as his polygamy).
So in my understanding, either we don't trust our leaders prophetic link to Christ or we don't trust Christ. This, of course is the very definition of apostasy. Any thoughts? This is my honest opinion but I really am trying to understand your point of view.
+Rick Hart The changes to the handbook are not inspired of god.
Sorry, I re-read my post and it sounds judge mental. I didn't mean for it to be that way. Hope all is well with you and things work out. God bless
Some people stay down on the farm after coming into a city
Why would you want to go to a church or belong to a church; that doesn't want you? You don't shop where you don't like, you choose a college you like, why go to a church that doesn't want you. It's Christ! You go to church to learn of Christ.
NEVER CHOOSE A HALF WIT FOR GUIDANCE
MOST CHURCHES BELIEVES IN THE MINIMUM PAY SCHEME
If you REALLY THINK THIS "POLICY" thro' to its bottom line, what do think you will find on THE BOTTOM LINE? Surely, it doesn't need to be spelled out today, 2 June 2023.
Well, all mormon children shouldn't be baptized before the age of 18, until they can know better. Wouldn't that be fair?
+Cris Ramirez I think no one in today's clueless world should be baptized at age 8 - maybe in the old days they did enough real world labor by that age to get a vague feel for reality, but today I don't think the average 8 year old has any idea what baptism is about, nor the seriousness of the promises made by doing it.
James Everett Yes. I was baptized at 8, in a regular Christian church, and I barely remember it. It held no spiritual significance to me, I feel like I was robbed of the experience. I've actually considered being baptized again, now, so it would mean something to me. I didn't encourage either of my kids to be baptized, much to my mother's horror, for this very reason. I want them to do it when they're ready, at a time when it will be memorable and significant and of their own volition.
Cris Ramirez t
Eric, can I ask if you are the youngest of the five sons in your family? You're dealing with so much, but thank God for your close, loving siblings and parents. I can see this has taken something out of you, for you are a thinker by temperament. Do take care of yourself; it must be so wearying for you at times dealing with the tension of your family values and your philosophical import.
ARE THERE ANY RUG RUNNERS IN THAT OUTFIT
Hillary Clinton and Obama oppose gay marriage in 2004 so I would assume most of our culture at that time did. This is what I feel is prophetic when the proclamation of the family comes out in 1995 because the media starts to try to normalize gays and gay marriage in the 90's beginning with Ellen season 4 1997 and starting Will and Grace 1998. In 20 years and another generation the culture has changed. But marriage is ordained of God between a man and women D &C 49:15-16. Paul said we should beware lest any man should spoil you through philosophy. If this is Christ's church man can't change it but man has the option to make his own or join another church.
I" M GETTING OUT OF HERE
1 of 13 as well!
THE CHURCHES NEED MORE CROSS DRESSERS
i did not hear the holy spirit in the LDS chruch. they have a lack of the ability to baptise and bless with the Holy Spirit although they support it.
MOST PEOPLE HAVE HANG-UPS
WHAT HAPPENED TO CANAAN
I wish he would just fucking say it and this interviewer stops him when he finally gets substance and the interviewer asks "and what year was this"? So frustrating.
I ACTUALLY I HATE MYSELF FOR BEING STUPID
STUDY TAX LAWS
MANY SOULS ARE SNAKES
WHY KNOCK THE CHURCH. WHERE DO YOU GO FROM HERE?
The Mormon Church....saved my life! I'm sad to see others spend their time and energy hating, when they could be productive in something that they love. We are all at different levels. No one is perfect. I believe in the word's of Christ, that we love one an other.
Christ did indeed call us to LOVE!!! So tell me, how is the lds showing love to homosexuals and their children? They are NOT! What happen to we are punished for our own sins and not Adams transgressions? These children are being punished for what their parents have chosen..how is that love? and even at 18 if they support their parents and love them they can't be baptized unless they disavow their parents...yup that's love.
Wow! You picked the wrong time to reply.....my little daughter is deathly ill. And fighting for her life. But I will reply...
I never said any church could tell you how to live. That's with in your on self. If what you are doing makes you happy then go for it. The LDS faith makes me happy.
G. Jeny Ramírez G. Jeny Ramírez
Thank you, I appreciate your kind words. In times like these, it puts things in perspective. Bless you.
D Tuckeroo how so
As well as being inherent.....I know someone who is very close to me that was tired of being hurt by the opposite sex so decided to try same sex relationships. Many many of these people who everyone thinks have these inherent tendencies..... are making conscious decisions to try same sex relationships because it's becoming so accepted.
"Many many of these people who everyone thinks have these inherent tendencies..... are making conscious decisions to try same sex relationships "
... says you, because you supposedly know one person who alleged to have changed their sexuality. Sure, sounds very convincing.
Sorry swiftset.....I know many people who have made a conscious choice. Many of the partners of the people I know who have made a conscious choice have also made the conscious choice. I was just saying that not everyone has the inherent tendency toward same sex attraction. If you choose to ignore the facts...that's up to you. You might want to be more open minded and not stereotype all gay/lesbians.
+Susan York The only person I'm stereotyping is you : your attempt to position homosexuality as a choice that people make after being hurt is a classic sign of passive aggressive homophobia. You know, the old love the sinner, but hate the sin bull. Waiting for you to drop that shoe.
Also, I love how you responded: I said you are not qualified to speak for 'many' homosexuals on the basis of one unlikely supposed acquaintance of yours, then you made up more unlikely acquaintances (why would you only mention one the first time around, when apparently you're swimming in a pool of people who can switch their sexual orientation at will?). Then you accused *me* of stereotyping. Ironic, much?
Sorry, I am not a homophobe. And, I didn't say that all homosexuals are making that choice. Loving others doesn't depend on their sexual orientation, however, the gay community seems to think that their sexual orientation comes first above who they are as people. Disagree totally with that line of thinking. My own daughter is one of the people I know that has made a conscious choice to date same sex and possibly marry same sex one day.. She's 36. She never had that tendency before. She's tired of being hurt by men and so are many of the partners she's had. And, yes, you are steretyping me as a homophobe. I do not appreciate that.
I HATE TAX COLLECTORS
I STUDIED MY SELF
It took 25 minutes to find out where this was going. Was this planned? I agree with him wholeheartedly. I have gay family and friends but almost quit listening because it seemed so rambling
WHY DO Y BLOCK I LOVE TO HEAR YOU
TOO MANY RIDGE RUNNERS AT BIRTH----stump jumpsters
TELL'M OFF
YOU ARE FIGHTING A LOST CAUSE
NO ATTORNEYS IN hEAVEN
I HATE SLUM MASTERS
Actually, according to the Constitution, marriage is not even a concern of the Federal Government.
...and that was the end of the issue forever from the very beginning for the federal government /sarcasm
DUMPSTER DIVING IS FUN
There is no dual life about it. No black sheep....choices you make that don't go along with the teachings of the church are subject to disciplinary action, period. My ex husband wanted to live polygamy...same exact thing.
WHY WORRY ABOUT DIRT BAGS.
I BELIEVE IN NO MAN
I suppose I struggle more with the idea that the laws of the USofA dictate how the Church is to govern the rest of the world; not just the souls of now, but in the future, other worlds, and all eternity. 'Tis extreme of me to say so, but I'm tired of USA telling the universe how to live their lives (more from a religious viewpoint).
Okay, I've had my break, time to head back into the next session...
+David J So... ummm... How exactly is same sex marriage the USA telling anyone how to live their lives? It is the exact opposite. Also, the church doesn't govern any of the world (thank any and all divine beings of any kind). The US isn't even telling the church what it can do at this point. Do you have any idea how the world works at all?
+trueinar - I'd be surprised if there are many people out there with any idea on how the world works. It is just far too complicated to govern any rational understanding. I invite you to re-read my statement, and carefully understand that I am speaking from the perspective of the LDS church, not as a generalisation for all of USA vs World contexts. I find that changing laws in the USA will dictate changes in Church policy, teachings, and 'how things are done'. Here is Australia, we don't have same-sex marriage and yet members of the LDS Church in Australia are being told how to govern such concepts, which generate some friction due to cultural thinking and local laws. Because of this I see much of what happens in the USofA - holding less membership than the 'rest of the world' - as a pre-cursor on general LDS administration. You don't see this, would I be correct?
PROTESTANTISM CAME FROM CATHOLOCISM
YOU ARE NOT WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRTTTHHHYYYY!
WHY WORRY ABOUT JERKS
FORGET ABOUT JERKS
PLEASE QUIT WORRYING ABOUT COMMON STREET WALKERS
NO U DO NOT
LET JERKS TAKE CARE OF OTHER JERKS
Does this same policy affect Joseph Smith who had 40 wives LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. When they do baptism for Dead do they take Joseph Smiths away?
Later Day Psycho's
Magic Panties?, Jesus running around Missouri?, I could fabricate a more believable Cult.
go for it!
I could certainly be the New Ted Haggard though!!!!, Bring me all those Nasty Boys!!!!
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
Oh my, I let my Christianity slip a bit!!!!.
I can be such a Kim Davis at times!!!
+Martha Marvelette Magic panties dam hommie I would join if all ladies had them.
Apparently the "Magic" of the Panties is, You can only remove them, if you buy the cow.
What an incredibly erudite and likely high IQ young man. I hope he can put some of this behind him as he could have an incedible future.
Proclomation to the World on the Family?! This was given to us because of the very issues you are speaking about. Same thing goes for children of polygamy parents. Nothing different. My family is affected directly because of this policy but I still support it. It's very very sad.
Eric explains very clearly in this video the difference between this policy and the policy regarding children of polygamist parents. You didn't watch the video. I mean, it's long, true. But have a listen.
He may explain what he thinks it says. My ex husband decided that he wanted to have more wives after we had been married for 28 years. I left after being married for thirty. I know how the polygamist situation is handled...first hand....I did watch the video, in it's entirity. Not sure why you think I didn't.
TRY THE JESUITS